Re: [pydotorg-www] Grid for python.org (Was: Website formatting problem)

[Brian Curtin]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 11:55, anatoly techtonik  wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Michael Foord
>  wrote:
>> "The PSF" is a bunch of individuals, many of whom *are* subscribed to this 
>> list. The process will be public. That doesn't mean that all the minutiae 
>> will all be endlessly discussed, which is the (incorrect) definition of 
>> public that some people use. The call for tenders have not been worked out 
>> yet.
>
> Why PSF can't crowd-source the process?

If you're going to respond, you must read the messages you are
responding to. Everything but the first line of the paragraph you
responded to answers this question. I have even answered your asking
of the same question at least one time before.

> There are many "designers" out there, who can help. Is there a PEP, a FAQ or 
> at least something on it?

No. See the message you responded to but did not read, specifically
the last line.
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Grid for python.org (Was: Website formatting problem)

[Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder]

On 2/20/12 at 9:08 PM, p...@python.org (Patrick Ben Koetter) pronounced:


The right way [tm] to handle this is to use a reset.css and then build
everything from scratch. You don't want to do that with the current website.


There has been debate about reset.css vs. normalize.css.
http://necolas.github.com/normalize.css/

I have used both.  FWIW I now use normalize.css for new design 
work.  Actually it's a mashup of normalize.css, modernizr, 
compass, blueprint, stacklayout, jquery, jqueryui, and probably 
a few things I'm forgetting.


In any case, a discussion about which tool *is right for the 
job* is premature.  But a discussion of various tools and when 
they may be appropriate to use is helpful.


--steve

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 
-- --
Steve Piercy   Web Site Builder   
Soquel, CA

  

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Grid for python.org (Was: Website formatting problem)

[Patrick Ben Koetter]

* anatoly techtonik :
> > Without having looked at it closer I think using ANY framework will not 
> > solve
> > the problem. You'd end up barking up the wrong tree.
> >
> > The problem seems to be located with current CSS settings a particular
> > browser, here Chrome.
> >
> > The right way [tm] to handle this is to use a reset.css and then build
> > everything from scratch. You don't want to do that with the current website.
> >
> > But if I were to code the CSS for the new python.org site I'd use a 
> > reset.css
> > in any case. It set the ground for equal CSS interpretation in all browsers.
> > That's something you can build from. Anything else will get you in trouble.
> 
> Thanks. IMO http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/css/reset/  should be added
> to python.org regardless of PSF > redesign plans.

I advise against it in the current website state. It will likely worsen
everything and you'll end up 'fixing' issues that weren't there in the first.


-- 
Patrick Ben Koetter 
Python.org Postmaster Team

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Grid for python.org (Was: Website formatting problem)

[anatoly techtonik]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 11:08 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter  wrote:
> * anatoly techtonik :
>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter  wrote:
>>
>> > * anatoly techtonik :
>> > > I wonder if grid based layout would fit python.org? Do anybody have
>> > > experience with that?
>> >
>> > I/we have some experience with http://960.gs/. Very nice also with
>> > http://adapt.960.gs/. Good for mobiles.
>> >
>>
>> Nice. I was evaluating which framework to choose. Do you think it can solve
>> this particular problem with calendar on python.org or will just make the
>> matters worse?
>
> Without having looked at it closer I think using ANY framework will not solve
> the problem. You'd end up barking up the wrong tree.
>
> The problem seems to be located with current CSS settings a particular
> browser, here Chrome.
>
> The right way [tm] to handle this is to use a reset.css and then build
> everything from scratch. You don't want to do that with the current website.
>
> But if I were to code the CSS for the new python.org site I'd use a reset.css
> in any case. It set the ground for equal CSS interpretation in all browsers.
> That's something you can build from. Anything else will get you in trouble.

Thanks. IMO http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/css/reset/  should be added
to python.org regardless of PSF
redesign plans.
--
anatoly t.
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Grid for python.org (Was: Website formatting problem)

[Patrick Ben Koetter]

* anatoly techtonik :
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter  wrote:
> 
> > * anatoly techtonik :
> > > I wonder if grid based layout would fit python.org? Do anybody have
> > > experience with that?
> >
> > I/we have some experience with http://960.gs/. Very nice also with
> > http://adapt.960.gs/. Good for mobiles.
> >
> 
> Nice. I was evaluating which framework to choose. Do you think it can solve
> this particular problem with calendar on python.org or will just make the
> matters worse?

Without having looked at it closer I think using ANY framework will not solve
the problem. You'd end up barking up the wrong tree.

The problem seems to be located with current CSS settings a particular
browser, here Chrome.

The right way [tm] to handle this is to use a reset.css and then build
everything from scratch. You don't want to do that with the current website.

But if I were to code the CSS for the new python.org site I'd use a reset.css
in any case. It set the ground for equal CSS interpretation in all browsers.
That's something you can build from. Anything else will get you in trouble.

p@rick


-- 
Patrick Ben Koetter 
Python.org Postmaster Team

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Grid for python.org (Was: Website formatting problem)

[anatoly techtonik]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Michael Foord
 wrote:
>
> On 20 Feb 2012, at 15:40, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Michael Foord  
>> wrote:
>>
>> On 20 Feb 2012, at 13:34, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>
>> > Hello web team,
>> >
>> > I wonder if grid based layout would fit python.org? Do anybody have 
>> > experience with that?
>>
>>
>> Website design and layout is currently under review by the PSF, so we aren't 
>> about to make any substantial layout changes. The specific implementation of 
>> the python.org layout will be up to whoever we hire to do the redesign.
>>
>> In the meantime it would be good to solve this specific problem.
>>
>>
>> The 'grid' is not a design, but a CSS framwork that is aimed to solve such 
>> specific problems - http://960.gs/
>
>
> Site layout by css is *precisely* a design issue.

We may argue about that a lot, but in this context the point is that
visually you won't notice if grid is used or not, but it may eliminate
the bug. For a contrast - design as a visual perception is not "an art
of writing css".

>> P.S. Why PSF is not subscribed to this list if he is doing website design 
>> review? Why not to make the process public? ;)
>
> "The PSF" is a bunch of individuals, many of whom *are* subscribed to this 
> list. The process will be public. That doesn't mean that all the minutiae 
> will all be endlessly discussed, which is the (incorrect) definition of 
> public that some people use. The call for tenders have not been worked out 
> yet.

Why PSF can't crowd-source the process? There are many "designers" out
there, who can help. Is there a PEP, a FAQ or at least something on
it?
--
anatoly t.
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Grid for python.org (Was: Website formatting problem)

[Michael Foord]

On 20 Feb 2012, at 15:40, anatoly techtonik wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Michael Foord  
> wrote:
> 
> On 20 Feb 2012, at 13:34, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> 
> > Hello web team,
> >
> > I wonder if grid based layout would fit python.org? Do anybody have 
> > experience with that?
> 
> 
> Website design and layout is currently under review by the PSF, so we aren't 
> about to make any substantial layout changes. The specific implementation of 
> the python.org layout will be up to whoever we hire to do the redesign.
> 
> In the meantime it would be good to solve this specific problem.
> 
> 
> The 'grid' is not a design, but a CSS framwork that is aimed to solve such 
> specific problems - http://960.gs/


Site layout by css is *precisely* a design issue.

> 
> P.S. Why PSF is not subscribed to this list if he is doing website design 
> review? Why not to make the process public? ;)

"The PSF" is a bunch of individuals, many of whom *are* subscribed to this 
list. The process will be public. That doesn't mean that all the minutiae will 
all be endlessly discussed, which is the (incorrect) definition of public that 
some people use. The call for tenders have not been worked out yet.

Michael

> -- 
> anatoly t.
> 
>  
> > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Michael Foord  
> > wrote:
> > Hello web team,
> >
> > We've had a report from a user to the webmaster email about a problem with 
> > python.org:
> >
> >In Chromium 6 on Debian squeeze, the "Release Schedule" box on the 
> > left of the page http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3119/ (for example) is 
> > too large. It obscures some of the text on the left margin. I can send a 
> > screenshot if necessary. There is no problem with Iceweasel (Debian's 
> > rebranded Firefox) 3.5.
> >
> > The user says this happens everywhere the "Release Schedule" box is used.
> >
> > Anyone else using Debian Squeeze and able to try Chromium 6 (I assume 
> > that's the current version) and maybe diagnose or even fix the problem?
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Michael Foord
> >
> > --
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
> >
> >
> > May you do good and not evil
> > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> > May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> > -- the sqlite blessing
> > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > pydotorg-www mailing list
> > pydotorg-www@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
> >
> 
> 
> --
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
> 
> 
> May you do good and not evil
> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> -- the sqlite blessing
> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www


--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing 
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html





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Re: [pydotorg-www] Grid for python.org (Was: Website formatting problem)

[anatoly techtonik]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter  wrote:

> * anatoly techtonik :
> > I wonder if grid based layout would fit python.org? Do anybody have
> > experience with that?
>
> I/we have some experience with http://960.gs/. Very nice also with
> http://adapt.960.gs/. Good for mobiles.
>

Nice. I was evaluating which framework to choose. Do you think it can solve
this particular problem with calendar on python.org or will just make the
matters worse?
-- 
anatoly t.



> p@rick
>
>
> > --
> > anatoly t.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Michael Foord <
> fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk>wrote:
> >
> > > Hello web team,
> > >
> > > We've had a report from a user to the webmaster email about a problem
> with
> > > python.org:
> > >
> > >In Chromium 6 on Debian squeeze, the "Release Schedule" box on
> the
> > > left of the page http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3119/ (for
> example)
> > > is too large. It obscures some of the text on the left margin. I can
> send a
> > > screenshot if necessary. There is no problem with Iceweasel (Debian's
> > > rebranded Firefox) 3.5.
> > >
> > > The user says this happens everywhere the "Release Schedule" box is
> used.
> > >
> > > Anyone else using Debian Squeeze and able to try Chromium 6 (I assume
> > > that's the current version) and maybe diagnose or even fix the problem?
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > >
> > > Michael Foord
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
> > >
> > >
> > > May you do good and not evil
> > > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> > > May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> > > -- the sqlite blessing
> > > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > pydotorg-www mailing list
> > > pydotorg-www@python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
> > >
>
> > ___
> > pydotorg-www mailing list
> > pydotorg-www@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>
>
> --
> Patrick Ben Koetter 
> Python.org Postmaster Team
>
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>
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Grid for python.org (Was: Website formatting problem)

[anatoly techtonik]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Michael Foord wrote:

>
> On 20 Feb 2012, at 13:34, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>
> > Hello web team,
> >
> > I wonder if grid based layout would fit python.org? Do anybody have
> experience with that?
>
>
> Website design and layout is currently under review by the PSF, so we
> aren't about to make any substantial layout changes. The specific
> implementation of the python.org layout will be up to whoever we hire to
> do the redesign.
>
> In the meantime it would be good to solve this specific problem.
>


The 'grid' is not a design, but a CSS framwork that is aimed to solve such
specific problems - http://960.gs/

P.S. Why PSF is not subscribed to this list if he is doing website design
review? Why not to make the process public? ;)
-- 
anatoly t.



> > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Michael Foord <
> fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk> wrote:
> > Hello web team,
> >
> > We've had a report from a user to the webmaster email about a problem
> with python.org:
> >
> >In Chromium 6 on Debian squeeze, the "Release Schedule" box on
> the left of the page http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3119/ (for
> example) is too large. It obscures some of the text on the left margin. I
> can send a screenshot if necessary. There is no problem with Iceweasel
> (Debian's rebranded Firefox) 3.5.
> >
> > The user says this happens everywhere the "Release Schedule" box is used.
> >
> > Anyone else using Debian Squeeze and able to try Chromium 6 (I assume
> that's the current version) and maybe diagnose or even fix the problem?
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Michael Foord
> >
> > --
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
> >
> >
> > May you do good and not evil
> > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> > May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> > -- the sqlite blessing
> > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > pydotorg-www mailing list
> > pydotorg-www@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
> >
>
>
> --
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
>
>
> May you do good and not evil
> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> -- the sqlite blessing
> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Grid for python.org (Was: Website formatting problem)

[Michael Foord]

On 20 Feb 2012, at 13:34, anatoly techtonik wrote:

> Hello web team,
> 
> I wonder if grid based layout would fit python.org? Do anybody have 
> experience with that?


Website design and layout is currently under review by the PSF, so we aren't 
about to make any substantial layout changes. The specific implementation of 
the python.org layout will be up to whoever we hire to do the redesign.

In the meantime it would be good to solve this specific problem.

Michael

> -- 
> anatoly t.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Michael Foord  
> wrote:
> Hello web team,
> 
> We've had a report from a user to the webmaster email about a problem with 
> python.org:
> 
>In Chromium 6 on Debian squeeze, the "Release Schedule" box on the 
> left of the page http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3119/ (for example) is 
> too large. It obscures some of the text on the left margin. I can send a 
> screenshot if necessary. There is no problem with Iceweasel (Debian's 
> rebranded Firefox) 3.5.
> 
> The user says this happens everywhere the "Release Schedule" box is used.
> 
> Anyone else using Debian Squeeze and able to try Chromium 6 (I assume that's 
> the current version) and maybe diagnose or even fix the problem?
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Michael Foord
> 
> --
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
> 
> 
> May you do good and not evil
> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> -- the sqlite blessing
> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
> 


--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing 
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html





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Re: [pydotorg-www] Grid for python.org (Was: Website formatting problem)

[Patrick Ben Koetter]

* anatoly techtonik :
> I wonder if grid based layout would fit python.org? Do anybody have
> experience with that?

I/we have some experience with http://960.gs/. Very nice also with
http://adapt.960.gs/. Good for mobiles.

p@rick


> -- 
> anatoly t.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Michael Foord 
> wrote:
> 
> > Hello web team,
> >
> > We've had a report from a user to the webmaster email about a problem with
> > python.org:
> >
> >In Chromium 6 on Debian squeeze, the "Release Schedule" box on the
> > left of the page http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3119/ (for example)
> > is too large. It obscures some of the text on the left margin. I can send a
> > screenshot if necessary. There is no problem with Iceweasel (Debian's
> > rebranded Firefox) 3.5.
> >
> > The user says this happens everywhere the "Release Schedule" box is used.
> >
> > Anyone else using Debian Squeeze and able to try Chromium 6 (I assume
> > that's the current version) and maybe diagnose or even fix the problem?
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Michael Foord
> >
> > --
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
> >
> >
> > May you do good and not evil
> > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> > May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> > -- the sqlite blessing
> > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > pydotorg-www mailing list
> > pydotorg-www@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
> >

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-- 
Patrick Ben Koetter 
Python.org Postmaster Team

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