Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list
I believe Hart's Antler has done quite bit of work in RPython. Yeah, that said, more work to do there. My goal with my RPython thread, is that I believe that there is an implicitly static subset of Python that can be compiled into standalone executables and DLLs without needing JIT or VMs. Can serve 2 purposes. 1. Make standalone executables just like C/C++ code. 2. Write Python Extension modules that can be compiled into shared DLL modules for CPython and PyPy Looking through the various threads on PyPy, Shedskin and Cython, I believe its just a matter of time. Sarvi - Original Message > From: Antonio Cuni > To: Maciej Fijalkowski > Cc: pypy-dev@codespeak.net; Armin Rigo > Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 1:50:34 AM > Subject: Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list > > On 13/09/10 10:27, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: > > > Is it really about interpreters? (what's interpreter-specific after > > all in RPython) or is it just that it's hard to use and does not > > integrate with CPython well? > > my point if that it's definitely good enough for writing interpreters. For the > rest, it's a bit unknown (in the sense that nobody has ever tried), and we > don't care about knowing :-) > ___ > pypy-dev@codespeak.net > http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev > ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list
No I didn't create the mailing list. Possibly Hart's Antler who did. And the money to PyPy had no strings attached. I really hope PyPy replaces CPython as the standard python sooner, rather than later. True. That yall are not interested in standardizing an implicitly static subset of Python that can be used to create compiled executables or python extension libraries. But if PyPy gains momentum, I am pretty sure this idea will gain momentum eventually. Keep the good work. Sarvi - Original Message > From: Armin Rigo > To: pypy-dev@codespeak.net > Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 7:57:41 AM > Subject: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list > > Hi, > > To anyone interested, Sarvi(?) created an RPython mailing list (Thanks > Bea for spotting this): > > http://pyppet.blogspot.com/2010/09/rpython-mailing-list.html > > The following paragraph should have been posted as a comment to that > blog post, but it doesn't record my post no matter how much I try, so > I'll put it here: > > """ > Ah, sorry about the money issue. I didn't realize that you already > sent it to us; I misunderstood that you would not send it at all after > we told you that we don't have resources and motivation to make > RPython more user-friendly (even with $200). Now I suppose that we > can arrange for you to get the money back if you like, or else thank > you properly for it if it's ours to keep anyway :-) > """ > > About the non-money issue, I end up looking like the bad guy. I > suppose I should not have tried to say and repeat "no" so many times > in the previous thread in increasingly bad tones; now Sarvi points > only to my most negative e-mail. > > > A bientôt, > > Armin > ___ > pypy-dev@codespeak.net > http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev > ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] PyPy JIT & C extensions, greenlet
Hi Andy, On 09/13/2010 06:18 PM, Andy wrote: > OK let me make sure I got it right: > > PyPy-JIT does not work with pypy-stackless. I'm mostly interested in > greenlet, not stackless python. Is pypy-stackless required for > greenlet support? > > Looks like you're saying PyPy-JIT doesn't support greenlet That's correct. > there's no plan to do so, correct? I think it's more a case of "no manpower". If somebody is interested in implementing it and shows up in the channel, we can give help. We have currently no time to do it ourselves. Cheers, Carl Friedrich ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] PyPy JIT & C extensions, greenlet
--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Armin Rigo wrote: > > yes, but it must also be said that at the moment, > pypy-stackless and pypy-jit > > do not work together. > > Oups, sorry. I missed the word "JIT" in the original > message of this > thread :-( Sorry for the confusion. > > To answer the original question: it would be nice if > someone would > show up and help contribute JIT support for Stackless > builds of PyPy. > I think that the status is that no-one of us is ready to > invest a lot OK let me make sure I got it right: PyPy-JIT does not work with pypy-stackless. I'm mostly interested in greenlet, not stackless python. Is pypy-stackless required for greenlet support? Looks like you're saying PyPy-JIT doesn't support greenlet and there's no plan to do so, correct? ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list
2010/9/13 Maciej Fijalkowski : > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Armin Rigo wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 9:58 PM, Bea During wrote: >>> Maybe we should be clear in our documentation somewhere on >>> where we stand regarding RPython >> >> What about renaming it first? There is at least one other project >> that uses the name RPython. What about something like InterpPy or >> InterpPython to make it clear that it's supposed to be used to write >> interpreters? It doesn't sound terrific but I don't really care -- >> so, comments welcome, but please no infinite discussion on the pros >> and cons of various names. >> > > While we're at it, how about splitting the translation toolchain from > pypy interpreter? I don't mean on technical merits, it can still be > the same or mostly the same source codebase, but more on the > conceptual level, to have 2 different websites names etc. -0. We don't need more websites/trees to maintain. Anyway, it's not clear to me where the split would be, since the translator and the python interpreter are very interdependent. -- Regards, Benjamin ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:50 +0200, Antonio Cuni wrote: > On 13/09/10 10:27, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: > > > Is it really about interpreters? (what's interpreter-specific after > > all in RPython) or is it just that it's hard to use and does not > > integrate with CPython well? > > my point if that it's definitely good enough for writing interpreters. For the > rest, it's a bit unknown (in the sense that nobody has ever tried), and we > don't care about knowing :-) People have written apps and libs in RPython at several points in its history. And while i find it perfectly acceptable and fine for PyPy core devs to not want to care for usage of RPython for non-interpreter purposes i am a bit tired of this ever ongoing competition of expressing dis-interest and uttering discouraging statements. best, holger ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list
On 13/09/10 10:27, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: > Is it really about interpreters? (what's interpreter-specific after > all in RPython) or is it just that it's hard to use and does not > integrate with CPython well? my point if that it's definitely good enough for writing interpreters. For the rest, it's a bit unknown (in the sense that nobody has ever tried), and we don't care about knowing :-) ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] PyPy JIT & C extensions, greenlet
Hi, On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Antonio Cuni wrote: > yes, but it must also be said that at the moment, pypy-stackless and pypy-jit > do not work together. Oups, sorry. I missed the word "JIT" in the original message of this thread :-( Sorry for the confusion. To answer the original question: it would be nice if someone would show up and help contribute JIT support for Stackless builds of PyPy. I think that the status is that no-one of us is ready to invest a lot of time there, but we can definitely give pointers and get people started and follow their progress. A bientôt, Armin. ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Antonio Cuni wrote: > On 13/09/10 10:14, Armin Rigo wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski >> wrote: >>> I don't think it's hideable. >> >> Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not really trying to hide it. But I'm >> also not really trying to push it forward (which seems to be what >> creating a website for it would do). > > well, I don't think that hiding it or pushing it backward is a good idea. In > theory, we would like if other people start to use rpython to write > interpreters. > > What we don't like is to use rpython as a general purpose language, but that's > a slightly different issue, IMHO. Is it really about interpreters? (what's interpreter-specific after all in RPython) or is it just that it's hard to use and does not integrate with CPython well? > > ciao, > Anto > ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list
On 13/09/10 10:14, Armin Rigo wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: >> I don't think it's hideable. > > Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not really trying to hide it. But I'm > also not really trying to push it forward (which seems to be what > creating a website for it would do). well, I don't think that hiding it or pushing it backward is a good idea. In theory, we would like if other people start to use rpython to write interpreters. What we don't like is to use rpython as a general purpose language, but that's a slightly different issue, IMHO. ciao, Anto ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] PyPy JIT & C extensions, greenlet
On 13/09/10 10:10, Armin Rigo wrote: > Hi Andy, > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Andy wrote: >> Does that mean PyPy will not work with greenlet/gevent/etc? > > Sorry if I wasn't clear. PyPy contains greenlet support (since > 2005-6). It's part of the same package that we call "pypy-stackless". yes, but it must also be said that at the moment, pypy-stackless and pypy-jit do not work together. ciao, Anto ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list
Hi Maciej, On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: > While we're at it, how about splitting the translation toolchain from > pypy interpreter? I don't mean on technical merits, it can still be > the same or mostly the same source codebase, but more on the > conceptual level, to have 2 different websites names etc. I don't care too much right now. My motivation was to make RPython *less* visible, not create a second website for the translation toolchain (which would make RPython more visible). A bientôt, Armin. ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list
Hi, On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: > I don't think it's hideable. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not really trying to hide it. But I'm also not really trying to push it forward (which seems to be what creating a website for it would do). Armin ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Armin Rigo wrote: > Hi Maciej, > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: >> While we're at it, how about splitting the translation toolchain from >> pypy interpreter? I don't mean on technical merits, it can still be >> the same or mostly the same source codebase, but more on the >> conceptual level, to have 2 different websites names etc. > > I don't care too much right now. My motivation was to make RPython > *less* visible, not create a second website for the translation > toolchain (which would make RPython more visible). > I don't think it's hideable. What we can do instead is to leave some kind of description why it is like it is and what it is. Trying to hide it means to some people that we have an awesome tool that we don't want to share. Instead it's worth explaining why we don't share this (because it's eg hard to use) > > A bientôt, > > Armin. > ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] PyPy JIT & C extensions, greenlet
Hi Andy, On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Andy wrote: > Does that mean PyPy will not work with greenlet/gevent/etc? Sorry if I wasn't clear. PyPy contains greenlet support (since 2005-6). It's part of the same package that we call "pypy-stackless". Armin ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Armin Rigo wrote: > Hi, > > On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 9:58 PM, Bea During wrote: >> Maybe we should be clear in our documentation somewhere on >> where we stand regarding RPython > > What about renaming it first? There is at least one other project > that uses the name RPython. What about something like InterpPy or > InterpPython to make it clear that it's supposed to be used to write > interpreters? It doesn't sound terrific but I don't really care -- > so, comments welcome, but please no infinite discussion on the pros > and cons of various names. > While we're at it, how about splitting the translation toolchain from pypy interpreter? I don't mean on technical merits, it can still be the same or mostly the same source codebase, but more on the conceptual level, to have 2 different websites names etc. ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] External RPython mailing list
Hi, On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 9:58 PM, Bea During wrote: > Maybe we should be clear in our documentation somewhere on > where we stand regarding RPython What about renaming it first? There is at least one other project that uses the name RPython. What about something like InterpPy or InterpPython to make it clear that it's supposed to be used to write interpreters? It doesn't sound terrific but I don't really care -- so, comments welcome, but please no infinite discussion on the pros and cons of various names. A bientôt, Armin. ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
