Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully.
I wrote a long comment on PyQt documentation a few days ago saying that meta-documentation is needed. An example of the kind of thing I'm thinking of is Python Pocket Reference by Mark Lutz -- a great book. A comparable PyQt Pocket Reference would be a terrific resource. I am willing to review or edit new documentation, if someone organizes an effort to create it, but I'm not good enough with PyQt to create it myself. -- Robert Lummis ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully.
Dear Al, On Friday 17 September 2010, 02:55:08 Algis Kabaila wrote: IMO, more tutorial material could be useful. Pete, would you encourage tutorials written by newbies for newbies? Of course I do, and as written the other day, I'm willing to review them. Just point me to the wiki page. Pete ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully.
On Tuesday 14 September 2010 19:08:23 Hans-Peter Jansen wrote: Just a few words on methology: Searching for some functionality of QTextEdit, e.g. how to get at a specific line via line number: * Look up QTextEdit in assistant We read: The QTextEdit class provides a widget that is used to edit and display both plain and rich text. * Click on more... We read: QTextEdit works on paragraphs and characters. A paragraph is a formatted string which is word-wrapped to fit into the width of the widget. By default when reading plain text, one newline signifies a paragraph. Sounds like we're looking for paragraphs in plain text mode * Check class methods, that do what we want: Nothing obvious stands out * Check base classes: QTextEdit inherits from QAbstractScrollArea only, that won't help us much here * Check methods again: Nothing obvious with paragraphs, but QTextDocument * document() might be interesting * Click on document() method: We read: Returns a pointer to the underlying document. * Check it out: click on QTextDocument We read: The QTextDocument class holds formatted text that can be viewed and edited using a QTextEdit We're getting nearer, but still no ball: check out class methods * It has a method: QTextBlock findBlockByLineNumber ( int lineNumber ) Sounds like the best fit: click on method * We read: Returns the text block that contains the specified lineNumber. What the hell is a QTextBlock? Click: It encapsulates text fragments, and provides access to them * Check methods: QString text() sounds, like what we are looking for We read: Returns the block's contents as plain text. Target reached. Pete Pete, your detailed outline is so good that I am going to save it to my private moin-moin wiki! I saw a complaint in this thread (I can not find it now...) that all a newbie can do is to modify some existing example to adapt it to some problem at hand. IMHO that is about the best way to learn as long as one picks a suitable prototype, viz. a GUI in chapter 6 of Mark Summerfield's book! Thank you again, Pete. IMO, more tutorial material could be useful. Pete, would you encourage tutorials written by newbies for newbies? Al. -- OldAl akaba...@pcug.org.au ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully - Was: Re: Access to lines of text on textEdit.
On Wednesday 15 September 2010, 01:25:39 Peter Milliken wrote: On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Hans-Peter Jansen h...@urpla.net wrote: Come on, Peter, that's not fair. Phil decided to not provide the bulky docs in an otherwise pretty complete package for Windows users: please respect that. He has to pay for your downloads in some ways (and is doing a lot of work for generating those packages beforehand). It was an attempt at constructive criticism, I have only admiration for the job Phil is doing. But perhaps some hints as to what is missing, why and where you can go to fill in the blanks would be appropriate? You do WANT people to take up PyQt don't you? Please take my comments in the vein of making you aware of where improvements may be possible. I do after all come from that unique standpoint of being completely new to PyQt and Qt :-) Didn't I mentioned this in the following paragraph that you omitted? You get what you deserve. It's *your* decision after all. Pete True :-) After reviewing and reflecting on my experiences with PyQt over the last two weeks and also considering the implications of some of your comments here which relate to a depth of knowledge that isn't immediately obvious to a newbie such as myself, I think I will abandon my migration to PyQt and Qt for the foreseeable future. I think you all do a sterling job in promoting and supporting PyQt but at this point of time I think I deserve something that requires a little less work :-). I'm sorry to hear that. Getting used to of something that big is taking a while, and you tackled already some of the advanced aspects that doesn't help in this respect either (threads, composites, py2 to py3 transition). Unfortunately, you never reached a state, where you solely enjoyed the power of it: using tables with a million rows without any noticeable delay (even if they originate from some database server), redesigning complex UIs within minutes, using self created composites within designer, full unicode and i18n support, complete documentation, great books, support, etc... Then you start to realize, how simple it is to add your own C++ modules, that these objects are pure compiled code (ultra thin C/C++ interface layer, no python trampolines at all), and even huge class hierarchies load instantly (due to delayed lookup). I will stop here.. I've done projects with tkinter, pmw, wxpython and always regretted it at some point: painfully slow startup and runtime, convoluted code and concepts, missing features, non deterministic behavior changes across platforms, to name a few. Ever tried to track problems down to its bones through all the layers: I did, and it was a nightmare. Qt on the other hand is comprehensible in most aspects as well as sound in most concepts, and it is just _one_ layer away from your python code (the thin, mostly boring, sip layer code in between). If there ever will be usable python apps on mobile devices (they will) with complex UIs, that not always let the user remember the interpreted python penalty, those will be from our camp. I have enjoyed my journey and I don't regret the time I have spent bouncing around in the PyQt world - perhaps one day I might dust off my books and notes and revisit. Thanks for the efforts You're still welcome ;-) Pete ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully - Was: Re: Access to lines of text on textEdit.
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Peter Milliken peter.milli...@gmail.com wrote: After reviewing and reflecting on my experiences with PyQt over the last two weeks and also considering the implications of some of your comments here which relate to a depth of knowledge that isn't immediately obvious to a newbie such as myself, I think I will abandon my migration to PyQt and Qt for the foreseeable future. I think you all do a sterling job in promoting and supporting PyQt but at this point of time I think I deserve something that requires a little less work :-). I have enjoyed my journey and I don't regret the time I have spent bouncing around in the PyQt world - perhaps one day I might dust off my books and notes and revisit. Thanks for the efforts Again, that is your choice and yours alone. However, as a fellow newbie, I suggest you might perhaps reconsider and not stop at the first bump(s) in the road. Sticking with what you know can be both a short-term gain and a long-term loss. A (very) amateur programmer myself, I have made such a fundamental choice many, many years ago in (slowly) learning Python and using it exclusively, never looking back. I consider that choice a good one, because Python is one of those rare opportunities of short-term *and* long-term gain. Choosing a toolkit to build GUI apps in Python, however, was very far from such a clear-cut process. Over the years I have tried my hand at quite a few such frameworks, some mainstream, some obscure : wxPython (and the nice but orphaned PyCard), PyGTK, pyGame and whatnot (with the notable exception of TkInter). I was never able to quite wrap my mind around any of them, either because of their own limitations or mine, lack of proper documentation and support tools, etc. (Py)Qt is the last one I tried (mostly due to the Nokia happenings), and it is also the first one that started to make sense to me after a while. Over the last 12 months it has enabled me to achieve non-trivial stuff I had previously thought out of my reach. Yes, it definitely is a huge mouthful at first, it certainly has its warts too, but it is the most coherent and complete tool I have seen to date, with comprehensive (if dense :-) documentation, a deep mine of information on the Web, good support tools, a helpful community, and enough heavyweights behind it to ensure it will keep evolving for the foreseeable future. The main hassle, at the very start, is realizing over and over again that you have written too much complicated code because you didn't look well enough first to find the one single line that does what you need. But that fades away after a while, leaving just the deep enjoyment (as others have already said) of reading the C++ docs, then appreciating how much easier it is once translated to Python :-) Good luck, fp ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully - Was: Re: Access to lines of text on textEdit.
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Hans-Peter Jansen h...@urpla.net wrote: You're still welcome ;-) Oooops, I took too long to write that message, and Hans-Peter beat me to the punch, with almost the same arguments :-) ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully - Was: Re: Access to lines of text on textEdit.
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Hans-Peter Jansen h...@urpla.net wrote: If there ever will be usable python apps on mobile devices (they will) with complex UIs, that not always let the user remember the interpreted python penalty, those will be from our camp. Actually there are a lot of those already, thanks to Nokia's Maemo5 Linux platform and the N900 device. Although originally in GTK, the Maemo UI is evolving to Qt in the next revision, and further on with the Nokia/Intel MeeGo venture. Meanwhile, Qt, Python and PyQt are officially supported on the N900, and a large fraction of the interesting third-party apps provided by the community rely on those. I'm finishing one myself currently :-) ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully
I'd like to second Peter Milliken's sentiments. The PyQt documentation that's available is (in my opinion) pretty poor. Finding a way to do something that you haven't done before by browsing the documentation is nearly impossible. Or at least it's so frustrating and time-consuming that I often give up before finding what I need. The only way I've successfully implemented something is by starting with a working example I find by googling or in Mark Summerfield's book and vary it to suit my needs. That's not an ok method for serious programming. To be more concrete, I think there are at least two main shortcomings. 1) good meta-documentation isn't available. (Or, if it is available, I haven't found it.) One part of the meta-documentation would guide you to the classes, procedures, etc. you should read based on the tasks you want to accomplish, and say which classes go together. It would contain indexed annotations on the existing pages so, for example, if I want to program a way to edit fields in a database I could look in its index under fields or database or edit and I would be taken to a listing of all the relevant classes (not just the ones with those words on their pages) with annotations about what each does. Or if I want to control an external device I would find an annotated listing of the classes that might be applicable. This would have to be written by hand, not generated by a program. 2) The existing documentation itself, while extensive and obviously the result of a huge effort, is still not good enough. For one thing it assumes knowledge of C++. That is lame because a key advantage of PyQt is that you can be productive without knowing C++. Also, many of the pages have missing information, such as the list of arguments for a class, and/or have missing or broken links, or the explanations refer to arguments by name and the names don't match the names in the class heading. All of these taken together, along with other shortcomings I'm not mentioning, add up to a major barrier to learning. I guess if you already know a lot of PyQt the documentation seems good because it lets you look up some detail you didn't memorize. But it isn't very helpful to potential users who don't know a lot yet. I hope nobody takes these comments as personal criticisms because they aren't meant as such. I am in awe at the talents, dedication, and hard work by the Qt and PyQt developers and the gurus on this list who are putting so much time into supporting PyQt users and learners. I'm trying to be constructive by giving feedback from a typical learner, and possibly spark a new effort to improve the documentation. I want to learn to use PyQt and I'm willing to put a lot of time into it, but the state of the documentation makes it unnecessarily hard. I haven't given up yet but I'm pretty discouraged. If I'm wrong about what is lacking, which I may be, I hope someone will (tactfully) enlighten me. However, even if I'm wrong my frustration is an indication that everything isn't what it should be. -- Robert Lummis ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully
On Wednesday 15 September 2010, 19:50:11 Robert Lummis wrote: I'd like to second Peter Milliken's sentiments. The PyQt documentation that's available is (in my opinion) pretty poor. Finding a way to do something that you haven't done before by browsing the documentation is nearly impossible. Or at least it's so frustrating and time-consuming that I often give up before finding what I need. The only way I've successfully implemented something is by starting with a working example I find by googling or in Mark Summerfield's book and vary it to suit my needs. That's not an ok method for serious programming. To be more concrete, I think there are at least two main shortcomings. 1) good meta-documentation isn't available. (Or, if it is available, I haven't found it.) One part of the meta-documentation would guide you to the classes, procedures, etc. you should read based on the tasks you want to accomplish, and say which classes go together. It would contain indexed annotations on the existing pages so, for example, if I want to program a way to edit fields in a database I could look in its index under fields or database or edit and I would be taken to a listing of all the relevant classes (not just the ones with those words on their pages) with annotations about what each does. Or if I want to control an external device I would find an annotated listing of the classes that might be applicable. This would have to be written by hand, not generated by a program. While I understand your needs, I never came across a project, that provided a considerable amount of such meta documentation. All GUI programming books/manuals do this by example. Assistant comes close, since it has groupings of classes (e.g. Database classes), and topic overviews (e.g. The Qt 4 Database GUI Layer). 2) The existing documentation itself, while extensive and obviously the result of a huge effort, is still not good enough. For one thing it assumes knowledge of C++. That is lame because a key advantage of PyQt is that you can be productive without knowing C++. I beg to disagree: what you need to learn is what parts of C++ism's you can ignore completely, and what parts need be be transformed. Maybe, we should put a mini C++ survival guide into the PyQt wiki, that explains the basics.. Also, many of the pages have missing information, such as the list of arguments for a class, and/or have missing or broken links, or the explanations refer to arguments by name and the names don't match the names in the class heading. All of these taken together, along with other shortcomings I'm not mentioning, add up to a major barrier to learning. I guess if you already know a lot of PyQt the documentation seems good because it lets you look up some detail you didn't memorize. But it isn't very helpful to potential users who don't know a lot yet. I'm so used to assistant, that I only occasionly lookup things in the PyQt documentation (apart from pyqt4ref.html of course). If I find a deviation from Qt in PyQt, I go straight into the sip files, since they contain both: a description of that, and the method signatures, I'm usually after. I hope nobody takes these comments as personal criticisms because they aren't meant as such. I am in awe at the talents, dedication, and hard work by the Qt and PyQt developers and the gurus on this list who are putting so much time into supporting PyQt users and learners. I'm trying to be constructive by giving feedback from a typical learner, and possibly spark a new effort to improve the documentation. I want to learn to use PyQt and I'm willing to put a lot of time into it, but the state of the documentation makes it unnecessarily hard. I haven't given up yet but I'm pretty discouraged. If I'm wrong about what is lacking, which I may be, I hope someone will (tactfully) enlighten me. However, even if I'm wrong my frustration is an indication that everything isn't what it should be. Please try to find your way through assistant, and call back with the issues you have. I'm sure, that you won't miss much after a while. C++ is bitchy, if you need to program with it, but happily, we can ignore all those ugly and black voodoo parts completely. With the raise of Python 3 and the declination of QString and QVariant, programming with PyQt has a even brighter future to offer. Pete ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully - Was: Re: Access to lines of text on textEdit.
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 4:08 AM, Hans-Peter Jansen h...@urpla.net wrote: On Tuesday 14 September 2010, 09:48:47 Algis Kabaila wrote: On Tuesday 14 September 2010, 01:54:01 Algis Kabaila wrote: Is it possible to access lines of text in a textEdit? If so how can I find information about it? On Tuesday 14 September 2010 10:09:10 Hans-Peter Jansen wrote: Depending on document type, try this: document().findBlockByLineNumber(lineNumber).text() Pete On Tuesday 14 September 2010 12:24:52 Henning Schröder wrote: If you enter findBlockByLineNumber in Qt Assistant you will see that this method belongs to a QTextDocument object and returns a QTextBlock object QTextEdit has a method called document() which returns a QTextDocument. Henning In summary, the i-th line is returned by the following line = self.textEdit.document().findBlockByLineNumber(i).text(), which at least in part is identical to what Hans-Peter told me to do. Hennings advice to look up Qt Assistant was an invaluable help. Thank you both. Al, I cannot imagine how to work with PyQt successfully _without_ using assistant. Of course, Qt's class hierarchy is quite senseful most of the time in the first place, but due to the sheer volume of it, nobody is able to memorize this all. Just a few words on methology: Searching for some functionality of QTextEdit, e.g. how to get at a specific line via line number: * Look up QTextEdit in assistant We read: The QTextEdit class provides a widget that is used to edit and display both plain and rich text. * Click on more... We read: QTextEdit works on paragraphs and characters. A paragraph is a formatted string which is word-wrapped to fit into the width of the widget. By default when reading plain text, one newline signifies a paragraph. Sounds like we're looking for paragraphs in plain text mode * Check class methods, that do what we want: Nothing obvious stands out * Check base classes: QTextEdit inherits from QAbstractScrollArea only, that won't help us much here * Check methods again: Nothing obvious with paragraphs, but QTextDocument * document() might be interesting * Click on document() method: We read: Returns a pointer to the underlying document. * Check it out: click on QTextDocument We read: The QTextDocument class holds formatted text that can be viewed and edited using a QTextEdit We're getting nearer, but still no ball: check out class methods * It has a method: QTextBlock findBlockByLineNumber ( int lineNumber ) Sounds like the best fit: click on method * We read: Returns the text block that contains the specified lineNumber. What the hell is a QTextBlock? Click: It encapsulates text fragments, and provides access to them * Check methods: QString text() sounds, like what we are looking for We read: Returns the block's contents as plain text. Target reached. Note, how this transforms to a single line of code. Isn't it impressive, how much power is at our finger tips and how much joy it can be to ignore all this superfluous C++ decoration, that would involve much more work to get right ;-) How does one get the documentation files to make assistant useful on Windows? -- Steve Borho ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully - Was: Re: Access to lines of text on textEdit.
On Tuesday 14 September 2010, 17:51:28 Steve Borho wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 4:08 AM, Hans-Peter Jansen h...@urpla.net wrote: On Tuesday 14 September 2010, 09:48:47 Algis Kabaila wrote: On Tuesday 14 September 2010, 01:54:01 Algis Kabaila wrote: Is it possible to access lines of text in a textEdit? If so how can I find information about it? On Tuesday 14 September 2010 10:09:10 Hans-Peter Jansen wrote: Depending on document type, try this: document().findBlockByLineNumber(lineNumber).text() Pete On Tuesday 14 September 2010 12:24:52 Henning Schröder wrote: If you enter findBlockByLineNumber in Qt Assistant you will see that this method belongs to a QTextDocument object and returns a QTextBlock object QTextEdit has a method called document() which returns a QTextDocument. Henning In summary, the i-th line is returned by the following line = self.textEdit.document().findBlockByLineNumber(i).text(), which at least in part is identical to what Hans-Peter told me to do. Hennings advice to look up Qt Assistant was an invaluable help. Thank you both. Al, I cannot imagine how to work with PyQt successfully _without_ using assistant. Of course, Qt's class hierarchy is quite senseful most of the time in the first place, but due to the sheer volume of it, nobody is able to memorize this all. Just a few words on methology: Searching for some functionality of QTextEdit, e.g. how to get at a specific line via line number: * Look up QTextEdit in assistant We read: The QTextEdit class provides a widget that is used to edit and display both plain and rich text. * Click on more... We read: QTextEdit works on paragraphs and characters. A paragraph is a formatted string which is word-wrapped to fit into the width of the widget. By default when reading plain text, one newline signifies a paragraph. Sounds like we're looking for paragraphs in plain text mode * Check class methods, that do what we want: Nothing obvious stands out * Check base classes: QTextEdit inherits from QAbstractScrollArea only, that won't help us much here * Check methods again: Nothing obvious with paragraphs, but QTextDocument * document() might be interesting * Click on document() method: We read: Returns a pointer to the underlying document. * Check it out: click on QTextDocument We read: The QTextDocument class holds formatted text that can be viewed and edited using a QTextEdit We're getting nearer, but still no ball: check out class methods * It has a method: QTextBlock findBlockByLineNumber ( int lineNumber ) Sounds like the best fit: click on method * We read: Returns the text block that contains the specified lineNumber. What the hell is a QTextBlock? Click: It encapsulates text fragments, and provides access to them * Check methods: QString text() sounds, like what we are looking for We read: Returns the block's contents as plain text. Target reached. Note, how this transforms to a single line of code. Isn't it impressive, how much power is at our finger tips and how much joy it can be to ignore all this superfluous C++ decoration, that would involve much more work to get right ;-) How does one get the documentation files to make assistant useful on Windows? Download a matching zip archive, e.g.: ftp://ftp.qt.nokia.com/qt/source/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-4.6.3.zip, extract the doc/qch/*.qch files and register them within assistant. Pete ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully - Was: Re: Access to lines of text on textEdit.
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Hans-Peter Jansen h...@urpla.net wrote: Download a matching zip archive, e.g.: ftp://ftp.qt.nokia.com/qt/source/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-4.6.3.zip, extract the doc/qch/*.qch files and register them within assistant. Pete Thanks for that ! I tried unpacking the qch folder inside PyQt's own doc folder, and Qt Assistant found them right away without registering anything (fortunately :-). ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully - Was: Re: Access to lines of text on textEdit.
Exactly how does one find a matching zip archive? :-) I have looked and they don't make it easy! For example, how do I navigate to the 4.7.6 matching archive? Foolishly I thought that if I just used your link and changed the numbers it would work - foolish boy! Any clues how to navigate through all of this? It certainly isn't easy for people who want to migrate to PyQt! The learning curve seems to be littered with quite unnecessary pitfalls such as supplying an Assistant in the distribution but no documentation to use it with! :-( I am starting to think I might have been better off staying with Tkinter and its derivatives... Peter On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:48 AM, Hans-Peter Jansen h...@urpla.net wrote: Download a matching zip archive, e.g.: ftp://ftp.qt.nokia.com/qt/source/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-4.6.3.zip, extract the doc/qch/*.qch files and register them within assistant. Pete ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully - Was: Re: Access to lines of text on textEdit.
On Tue Sep 14 22:59:29 BST 2010, Peter Milliken wrote: Exactly how does one find a matching zip archive? :-) I have looked and they don't make it easy! This is because PyQt 4.7.x is used with Qt 4.6.x. For example, how do I navigate to the 4.7.6 matching archive? Foolishly I thought that if I just used your link and changed the numbers it would work - foolish boy! :-) You need to get the archive for Qt 4.6.3 for your favourite platform. Any clues how to navigate through all of this? It certainly isn't easy for people who want to migrate to PyQt! The learning curve seems to be littered with quite unnecessary pitfalls such as supplying an Assistant in the distribution but no documentation to use it with! :-( :-( I thought that there might be some pre-built QCH files on the Qt documentation site, but apparently there weren't. However, some have now been copied into the following location: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qch/4.6/ Please say if these give you any problems. I am starting to think I might have been better off staying with Tkinter and its derivatives... I don't think I've ever been tempted to go back to Tkinter, even when the argument has been that it's one of the batteries included with Python. David ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully - Was: Re: Access to lines of text on textEdit.
On Tuesday 14 September 2010, 23:59:29 Peter Milliken wrote: Exactly how does one find a matching zip archive? :-) I have looked and they don't make it easy! For example, how do I navigate to the 4.7.6 matching archive? Foolishly I thought that if I just used your link and changed the numbers it would work - foolish boy! Peter, we're talking about the Qt, not PyQt version. These are two different projects, that corelate, but not version wise, e.g. PyQt 4.7.6 will also build fine on top of an old Qt 4.1.0. I provided a link to the latest stable _Qt_ version. And no, it wouldn't harm too much to just use that one, as long as the delta of installed version doesn't deviate too much from the doc: say, a delta of = 0.1.9 is acceptable. Qt's class hierarchy doesn't grow rapidly and change in backward compatible ways only.. Btw, Nokia decided to rename the Qt package lately, don't let that fool you. Any clues how to navigate through all of this? It certainly isn't easy for people who want to migrate to PyQt! The learning curve seems to be littered with quite unnecessary pitfalls such as supplying an Assistant in the distribution but no documentation to use it with! :-( Come on, Peter, that's not fair. Phil decided to not provide the bulky docs in an otherwise pretty complete package for Windows users: please respect that. He has to pay for your downloads in some ways (and is doing a lot of work for generating those packages beforehand). What might be cool is providing a hint, what could be done about the doc. Phil? Or what about YOU providing a little PyQt script, that does download, extract, and install that files? Would be a nice beginners project, that the (Windows-)world is waiting for ;-) I'm basically on openSUSE linux (and Mac from time to time), therefor my install procedures look quite differently (and I'm sharing my builds for these flavors here): http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/frispete:/pyqt/ I am starting to think I might have been better off staying with Tkinter and its derivatives... You get what you deserve. It's *your* decision after all. Pete On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:48 AM, Hans-Peter Jansen h...@urpla.net wrote: Download a matching zip archive, e.g.: ftp://ftp.qt.nokia.com/qt/source/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-4.6.3.zip , extract the doc/qch/*.qch files and register them within assistant. Pete ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
Re: [PyQt] Howto use the Qt documentation successfully - Was: Re: Access to lines of text on textEdit.
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Hans-Peter Jansen h...@urpla.net wrote: Come on, Peter, that's not fair. Phil decided to not provide the bulky docs in an otherwise pretty complete package for Windows users: please respect that. He has to pay for your downloads in some ways (and is doing a lot of work for generating those packages beforehand). It was an attempt at constructive criticism, I have only admiration for the job Phil is doing. But perhaps some hints as to what is missing, why and where you can go to fill in the blanks would be appropriate? You do WANT people to take up PyQt don't you? Please take my comments in the vein of making you aware of where improvements may be possible. I do after all come from that unique standpoint of being completely new to PyQt and Qt :-) You get what you deserve. It's *your* decision after all. Pete True :-) After reviewing and reflecting on my experiences with PyQt over the last two weeks and also considering the implications of some of your comments here which relate to a depth of knowledge that isn't immediately obvious to a newbie such as myself, I think I will abandon my migration to PyQt and Qt for the foreseeable future. I think you all do a sterling job in promoting and supporting PyQt but at this point of time I think I deserve something that requires a little less work :-). I have enjoyed my journey and I don't regret the time I have spent bouncing around in the PyQt world - perhaps one day I might dust off my books and notes and revisit. Thanks for the efforts Peter ___ PyQt mailing listPyQt@riverbankcomputing.com http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/mailman/listinfo/pyqt
