[python-committers] Vote to promote Kumar Aditya

[Guido van Rossum]

I have just opened the poll to grant core dev primileges to Kumar Aditya.

Please see details at:
https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-kumar-aditya/21033

--Guido

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/BIORRO5EXB65QWMYIIBCHHMWQR2ZRIC6/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Dependabot actions on my cpython fork

[Guido van Rossum]

This was just discussed on Discord. The upstream issue is
https://github.com/dependabot/dependabot-core/issues/2804

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 14:19 Paul Moore  wrote:

> I have a cpython fork on my github account - every so often,
> dependabot kicks in and runs a whole load of actions, which I don't
> need. I'm not sure how I can switch these off, short of removing the
> .github directory (which would mean my fork has diverged from
> upstream, which I'm therefore reluctant to do).
>
> Is there a way of stopping these jobs running? APart from the annoying
> emails that I just ignore, it's a waste of computing resources for no
> good reason.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/2X3EIPQELPKDHOE2PPT4USZATZZA256W/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/PLYALO5UGLWNJPBKM2IXJK2ED4XVR5CB/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: GitHub mystery: "Check for source changes (pull_request)" failed

[Guido van Rossum]

The 70 different jobs were presumably the full complement of buildbots
(requested by setting a special label on the PR, which one of our GitHub
bots watches).

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 9:22 PM Tim Peters  wrote:

> [Tim]
> >> Bizarre. "Check for source changes (pull_request)" apparently fixed
> >> itself by magic.
>
> [Éric Araujo ]
> > That was me! 🧙  I re-ran the workflow to see if it was a sporadic
> failure.
>
> Cool! No more or less mysterious to me than if you hadn't ;-)
>
> >> Now "Check if generated files are up to date (pull_request)" is failing
> instead
>
> > Then I saw that and looked at the github status website, which indicated
> > an issue.  Patience is the remedy!
>
> Too late! It passes now :-) After waiting a couple hours, I poked
> around until finding a button that made it try that part again. This
> time it passed.
>
> But somehow I managed to convince it run nearly 70 different jobs  A
> mystery I will happily leave uninvestigated.
>
> Thanks for chipping in!
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/JCJSJEXKD5F5G67REJVAD74BTYKHHSV7/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/IRDYLW43EZ3RSK7VAYCPTBRVP76MUZQN/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Sad news from Zurich

[Guido van Rossum]

A former core dev who works at Google just passed the news that Fredrik
Lundh (also known as Effbot) has died.

Fredrik was an early Python contributor (e.g. Elementtree and the 're'
module) and his enthusiasm for the language and community were inspiring
for all who encountered him or his work. He spent countless hours on
comp.lang.python answering questions from newbies and advanced users alike.

He also co-founded an early Python startup, Secret Labs AB, which among
other software released an IDE named PythonWorks. Fredrik also created the
Python Imaging Library (PIL) which is still THE way to interact with images
in Python, now most often through its Pillow fork. His effbot.org site was
a valuable resource for generations of Python users, especially its Tkinter
documentation.

Fredrik's private Facebook page contains the following message from
November 25 by Ylva Larensson (translated from Swedish):

"""

It is with such sorrow and pain that I write this. Fredrik has left us
suddenly.

"""

A core dev wrote: "I felt privileged to be able to study Fredrik's code and
to read his writing. He was a huge asset to our community in the early
days. I enjoyed his sense of humor as well. I'm sad that he passed away."

We will miss him.



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/36Q5QBILL3QIFIA3KHNGFBNJQKXKN7SD/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: What's the schedule for the core sprint?

[Guido van Rossum]

In the welcome channel get the attention of one of the admins (e.g. aeros)
to promote you to committer.

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:40 AM Terry Reedy  wrote:

> I have the same question as Eric: How do I get to the sprint channels.
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/OZYXSUIOXRHGWGWMEEPJ5NPKZVLARBYA/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/57NVIONMAF6CIZ3NODJJ5QXQD4VK5R2L/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Opting-in for Hacktoberfest

[Guido van Rossum]

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 10:07 Mariatta  wrote:

>
> On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 1:08 AM Chris Withers  wrote:
>
>>
>> Don't get me wrong though: I think Hacktoberfest is a terrible idea in
>> that focusses on short-term fly-by contributing rather than fostering
>> the long term commitments that all open source projects desperately need.
>>
>>
> I understand the frustration and indeed there needs to be a solution for
> engaging long-term contributors.
> I think it's true that not everyone participating will end up as long term
> contributors, but this is a general problem, and we see the same issue with
> sprints at conferences as well. Perhaps only a small percentage of
> participants do end up being long term contributors.
> I think it's unfair to say that sprints/hacktoberfest is bad because we
> don't end up with long term commitments. It's not our place to judge
> people's motivation into contributing to OS projects. Some people have
> never been exposed to OS before, maybe they just want to try it out and see
> if it's something they want to do long term. Events like sprints and
> hacktoberfest lets them experiment and to try contributing. It's ok if most
> end up not wanting to continue. So maybe hacktoberfest is bad for
> maintainers in general, as we get very little out of it, but it can be good
> to some others. I think we should not limit ourselves into saying "only
> serious/long term contributions are allowed here".
>

Hear, hear.

For the first time this year, there is finally some focus on open source
> maintainers during hacktoberfest. Participants are also encouraged to
> donate to participating projects. Since CPython project is already set up
> on GitHub Sponsors, I would like to get CPython listed there so that our
> project will appear on the list of projects that people can donate to,
> which will help with funding of CPython development.
>

+1

I'm going to go ahead and add the hacktoberfest topic to the repo later
> today. I will also send an announcement to python-dev, letting people know
> of our participation, and that we will opt-out if we end up with mostly low
> quality and spam PRs. I will be watching the incoming PRs for the next week
> so I can determine whether we should opt-out or not.
>

Thank you!

—Guido

> --
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/6P243D7QU5MUGW65AREEZEC6GXP5U2R5/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Do I qualify for a x...@python.org email

[Guido van Rossum]

Interesting. Not only do you have to follow the CoC, but a more strict rule
applies as well:

"""
This email alias should not be used for personal benefit. For example,
those that use their @python.org email to solicit work for their Python
consulting work violate this rule. This can be interpreted as a PSF
endorsement of a private business, which we do not allow.
"""

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 7:25 PM Benjamin Peterson 
wrote:

> For future reference, the policy is documented here:
> https://www.python.org/psf/records/board/policies/email/
>
> On Sat, Oct 2, 2021, at 13:11, Joannah Nanjekye wrote:
> > Thanks Mariatta
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 3:07 PM Mariatta  wrote:
> >> Hi Joannah,
> >>
> >> Yes you can request the email address by writing to
> postmas...@python.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat., Oct. 2, 2021, 10:02 a.m. Joannah Nanjekye, <
> nanjekyejoan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Am migrating slowly away from using my Gmail address which I use for
> CPython correspondence and development.
> >>>
> >>> I plan to use my university email in the interim, when I graduate it
> will be a different story, I may lose it.
> >>>
> >>> So do I qualify for an x...@python.org email for purposes of CPython
> development?
> >>>
> >>> If so, who is responsible for coordinating this?
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> **Best,
> >>> Joannah Nanjekye
> >>> *"You think you know when you learn, are more sure when you can write,
> even more when you can teach, but certain when you can program."
> >>> Alan J. Perlis*
> >>> ___
> >>> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> >>> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/547AHP76RIVXSEBJLGWP64HL2LTFPYVL/
> >>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> >
> > --
> > **Best,
> > Joannah Nanjekye
> > *"You think you know when you learn, are more sure when you can write,
> > even more when you can teach, but certain when you can program."
> > Alan J. Perlis*
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> > Message archived at
> >
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/O6KDE24MHNL26HJWZXNP6ZLOMGT2672U/
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/NOLNJLAXAGBE3FDZVJI2RMP4W3DJM3OO/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/VWTRDPBFYRUDHZFGGXIC5HRAYXX7NZTF/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: What is github trying to tell me?

[Guido van Rossum]

I see this all the time and just ignore it. I have a feeling it's due to
the miss-islington bot being triggered by some event and checking in on the
PR while it is still transitioning. Occasionally I see a very large string
of these and assume she's just having a bad day. Also notice that in your
PR there are actually two of those failure messages, the second one being
suppressed by the GitHub UI.

But maybe Mariatta has a more reasoned explanation.

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 1:47 PM Eric V. Smith  wrote:

> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/28163 has two messages of:
>
> @ericvsmith <https://github.com/ericvsmith>: Status check is done, and
> it's a failure ❌ .
>
> Followed by the merge messages, followed by:
>
> @ericvsmith <https://github.com/ericvsmith>: Status check is done, and
> it's a success ✅ .
>
> What do the failure messages mean? Is it because I didn't wait for the
> checks to complete before merging?
>
> (It's a documentation only change that I previously committed to main
> without incident, so I didn't feel the need to wait for all of the checks
> to run before merging.)
>
> Thanks for any insight.
>
> Eric
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/U7A4R6TUGBD3KNAF3F2JJGNQ6V7B5G4D/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/VO4XYHUIG6KM66NONOZMMPCQYOBP6YEB/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Deprecation policy reminder

[Guido van Rossum]

https://github.com/python/steering-council/issues/75

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 8:21 AM Barry Warsaw  wrote:

> PEP 387 says:
>
> The steering council may grant exceptions to this policy. In
> particular, they may shorten the
> required deprecation period for a feature. Exceptions are only granted
> for extreme situations
> such as dangerously broken or insecure features or features no one
> could reasonably be depending
> on (e.g., support for completely obsolete platforms).
>
> I’m not sure I agree that these are the only reasons to grant an
> exception, but I guess we’ll have to discuss that.  Please do formally ask
> the SC for an exception.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
>
> > On Sep 2, 2021, at 08:02, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> >
> > Are there any exceptions? In the discussion about PyCode_New we've come
> to the conclusion that keeping it and PyCode_NewWithPosArgs around is going
> to be impossible to support, and we've found the few users of that API
> (Cython) supportive of changing it incompatibly.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 3:56 AM Łukasz Langa  wrote:
> > Hi there,
> > I noticed some deprecation activity this week. Nice! I'd just like to
> remind everyone that we have a policy for that described in PEP 387  It's a
> very short PEP so I recommend you read it in its entirety. The important
> piece I want to highlight is that we cannot deprecate a feature in one
> release and remove it in the next one. We need at least two releases with
> the warning.
> >
> > Relevant quotes:
> >
> >> Python's yearly release process (PEP 602) means that the deprecation
> period must last at least two years.
> >
> > and:
> >
> >> Wait for the warning to appear in at least two minor Python versions of
> the same major version, or one minor version in an older major version
> (e.g. for a warning in Python 3.10, you either wait until at least Python
> 3.12 or Python 4.0 to make the change). It's fine to wait more than two
> releases.
> >
> > Since this PEP is easy to miss, I linked it to the docs of
> DeprecationWarning in GH-28123.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ł
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> > Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/WZQIL3GLGO7NYC4XHBVFBHUNUJV6NWLE/
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> >
> > --
> > --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> > Pronouns: he/him (why is my pronoun here?)
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> > Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/BS2L3MDXK232Z523NTIM55ANSDRHR7VJ/
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
>

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/5XKOEUMKPXJV3DMIZRERX7Y4XIRAKUZC/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Deprecation policy reminder

[Guido van Rossum]

Are there any exceptions? In the discussion about PyCode_New we've come to
the conclusion that keeping it and PyCode_NewWithPosArgs around is going to
be impossible to support, and we've found the few users of that API
(Cython) supportive of changing it incompatibly.

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 3:56 AM Łukasz Langa  wrote:

> Hi there,
> I noticed some deprecation activity this week. Nice! I'd just like to
> remind everyone that we have a policy for that described in PEP 387
> <https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0387/>  It's a very short PEP so I
> recommend you read it in its entirety. The important piece I want to
> highlight is that we cannot deprecate a feature in one release and remove
> it in the next one. We need at least two releases with the warning.
>
> Relevant quotes:
>
> Python's yearly release process (PEP 602
> <https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0602>) means that the deprecation
> period must last at least two years.
>
>
> and:
>
> Wait for the warning to appear in at least two minor Python versions of
> the same major version, or one minor version in an older major version
> (e.g. for a warning in Python 3.10, you either wait until at least Python
> 3.12 or Python 4.0 to make the change). It's fine to wait more than two
> releases.
>
>
> Since this PEP is easy to miss, I linked it to the docs of
> DeprecationWarning in GH-28123
> <https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/28123>.
>
> Cheers,
> Ł
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/WZQIL3GLGO7NYC4XHBVFBHUNUJV6NWLE/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/BS2L3MDXK232Z523NTIM55ANSDRHR7VJ/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Vote to promote Ken Jin

[Guido van Rossum]

Pablo and I have started a poll to promote Ken Jin as a core developer.
For more details and the actual poll see:
https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-ken-jin/10146

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/ALKHBXC2RAAO3PQRFSG4LAZQBOK5ROIC/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Dennis Sweeney is now a member of the Python Triage team

[Guido van Rossum]

Great acquisition!

On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 18:25 Zachary Ware  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just a quick note to mention that Dennis Sweeney (CC'd) has been added
> to the Python Triage team:
> https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/412.  Dennis has
> already been responding to new issues, and the newly added permissions
> will enable better responses and corrections to issue/PR metadata.
>
> Welcome, Dennis!
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/YSLNWZHDJK63HH4X4NI4LG2SN3DCCDPK/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/NKXSUDBSZIANEZ7FX4OQU3UL4JKJULV6/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Developer in Residence Weekly Report, July 12 - 18

[Guido van Rossum]

That sounds like a fantastic first week,Lukasz!

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 04:29 Łukasz Langa  wrote:

> Hello there,
> finishing up on the inaugural week, number-wise we're looking as
> follows: I closed 14 issues and 54 PRs, reviewed 9 PRs, and authored 6 own
> PRs.
>
> Details at: https://lukasz.langa.pl/1c78554f-f81d-43d0-9c89-a602cafc4c5a/
>
> - Ł
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/BH3BXUROL23O5W3SNILHV6SP5E2OH3KN/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/EOJWX7RJDCKYIWE4VNTPC7DODL4JZ7Q3/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Please make sure you're following good security practices with your GitHub account

[Guido van Rossum]

There’s another possible explanation. This mailing list is archived and the
archives are publicly readable.

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 22:07 Tim Peters  wrote:

> Just for interest, I noticed a failed login attempt to my Github
> account about two hours ago, originating in Toronto.
>
> That's the first fishy thing Github's security log ever showed for my
> account.
>
> I do have 2FA enabled there now, so I'm not worried.
>
> Coincidence? About a week after I enabled 2FA for my Microsoft
> account, that _also_ notified me for the very first time of a failed
> login attempt.
>
> Maybe the NSA tracks when people enable 2FA, and after about a week
> gets around to making sure they can still break in ;-)
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/EUYIGLWM63BZLKROTGSOYSS57V3S2FU4/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/4HY35H774XX6GDWPYG2MNLI6BGFFTP6B/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: status of smtpd

[Guido van Rossum]

I would hope we’d remove it. It’s a toy implementation, unmaintained,
probably doesn’t support a lot of newer protocol features, and is probably
full of bugs. Hopefully nobody uses it!

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 17:51 Irit Katriel via python-committers <
python-committers@python.org> wrote:

> The documentation for smtpd (https://docs.python.org/3/library/smtpd.html)
> states that " smtpd
>  should be
> considered deprecated" and recommends  aiosmtpd
> .
>
> Are we planning to remove it from the stdlib? Note that at the moment the
> smtpd module doesn't emit deprecation warnings, and aiosmtpd is not part of
> the stdlib.
>
> This came up on https://bugs.python.org/issue28533, where we were hoping
> to be able to move the (properly) deprecated asyncore and asynhat to
> test.support (because there are still a few tests that use them). It seems
> that smtpd is that last blocker for that.
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/KNF6YQE2O4OLJDNKSGAT4NLZUNCQ5QSH/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/NX7HLTZPYY3R7IHANDTLOXW2TTAZCUWI/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Restarting individual CI runs

[Guido van Rossum]

Well, the 19 hours was just that I came back to the PR after 19 hours and
it was still not finished. I suspect that some message was just lost, and
either it never ran or was never marked as complete. :-)

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 12:56 PM Alex Gaynor  wrote:

> Yes, but at least you don't have to wait 19 hours to do so (github
> actions also doesn't let you restart jobs until they're all completed,
> or cancelled I suppose).
>
> Alex
>
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 3:54 PM Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> >
> > That's too bad, we really should ask for this.
> >
> > A timeout on a job still marks it as failed, I presume, so we still have
> to restart all jobs... :-(
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 12:40 PM Alex Gaynor 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Github actions doesn't have the ability to restart individual jobs,
> >> sadly (I've asked for this when they've done research sessions).
> >>
> >> FWIW, I'd recommend adding a timeout to jobs (it can be set in the YML
> >> file), that way hung jobs don't hang for hours and hours.
> >>
> >> Alex
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 3:16 PM Guido van Rossum 
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Quite frequently I see PRs that have all but one test green, and one
> test just hanging for a long time (e.g. 19 hours). It would be useful to
> have the ability to restart a particular test rather than re-running all
> tests (by closing and reopening the PR). Does this functionality exist?
> IIRC on Travis-CI it did exist, but only for privileged users. Does GitHub
> Actions have such a thing?
> >> >
> >> > Example: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/25551 -- the Address
> Sanitizer run has been waiting for 19 hours.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> >> > Pronouns: he/him (why is my pronoun here?)
> >> > ___
> >> > python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> >> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> >> > Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/X4KPYUNKZWLRZ5GQDZWXTE5Y4WGSHSA6/
> >> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do
> nothing.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> > Pronouns: he/him (why is my pronoun here?)
>
>
>
> --
> All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/FT5DM25SSILLL7IGQ2BEBTKWN6RNCG2Z/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Restarting individual CI runs

[Guido van Rossum]

That's too bad, we really should ask for this.

A timeout on a job still marks it as failed, I presume, so we still have to
restart all jobs... :-(

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 12:40 PM Alex Gaynor  wrote:

> Github actions doesn't have the ability to restart individual jobs,
> sadly (I've asked for this when they've done research sessions).
>
> FWIW, I'd recommend adding a timeout to jobs (it can be set in the YML
> file), that way hung jobs don't hang for hours and hours.
>
> Alex
>
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 3:16 PM Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> >
> > Quite frequently I see PRs that have all but one test green, and one
> test just hanging for a long time (e.g. 19 hours). It would be useful to
> have the ability to restart a particular test rather than re-running all
> tests (by closing and reopening the PR). Does this functionality exist?
> IIRC on Travis-CI it did exist, but only for privileged users. Does GitHub
> Actions have such a thing?
> >
> > Example: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/25551 -- the Address
> Sanitizer run has been waiting for 19 hours.
> >
> > --
> > --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> > Pronouns: he/him (why is my pronoun here?)
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> > Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/X4KPYUNKZWLRZ5GQDZWXTE5Y4WGSHSA6/
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
>
>
> --
> All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/53LVUSAARNMVVRRM746QO6BRFJMKAW6G/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Restarting individual CI runs

[Guido van Rossum]

Quite frequently I see PRs that have all but one test green, and one test
just hanging for a long time (e.g. 19 hours). It would be useful to have
the ability to restart a particular test rather than re-running all tests
(by closing and reopening the PR). Does this functionality exist? IIRC on
Travis-CI it did exist, but only for privileged users. Does GitHub Actions
have such a thing?

Example: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/25551 -- the Address
Sanitizer run has been waiting for 19 hours.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/X4KPYUNKZWLRZ5GQDZWXTE5Y4WGSHSA6/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Commits are no longer noted in bro issues

[Guido van Rossum]

Did you check your junk or spam mail folders? The email address from which
bpo is sending email is not super trusted by the spam filters used by large
email providers like GMail and Outlook.

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 10:46 AM Irit Katriel 
wrote:

>
> I'm not getting anything at all from bpo for about a week now. Maybe it
> had enough of me.
>
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 6:01 PM Victor Stinner 
> wrote:
>
>> I confirm that commits merged in 3.9, 3.10 and main branches are
>> logged again in bugs.python.org. Thanks to everyone who helped to
>> solve this issue!
>>
>
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/OTZWI4KRXWFZJOR4LJJM66N2XL6EVWYW/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Commits are no longer noted in bro issues

[Guido van Rossum]

I think this seems fixed now? At least I've been getting emails about
commits in main for bpo issues I'm following.

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 3:33 AM Victor Stinner  wrote:

> On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 12:33 AM Zachary Ware  wrote:
> > I might have found it; I at least opened
> > https://github.com/psf/bpo-roundup/pull/1 against what I found :)
>
> Sadly, commits in the main branch are still not logged to bugs.python.org,
> see:
> https://github.com/psf/bpo-roundup/pull/1#issuecomment-847754199
>
> Victor
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/FVJGITXYCWDNUQYS553LQVEQPFUQTM6R/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/4BSR57OJVSE6UEPIBJDUASY7UIZWC3C7/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

[Guido van Rossum]

Maybe it’s also not horrible to bet on one of the winners for once. Discord
seems poised for success as its original gamer demographic grows up with
it, while Gitter and Zulip already look like also-rans. (Though from
another vantage point things may well look different — what’s it look like
from Europe for example?)

On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 21:41 Kyle Stanley  wrote:

> On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 4:54 PM Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>
>> 2. I can handle Discord just fine nowadays but *please* don't combine
>> this with the Python Discord server. That server is super active with
>> learners and teachers, and has hundreds of channels and it's just really
>> hard to ignore that activity if all you're interested in is a single
>> channel. At this point I'm sure Kyle will pop in with instructions for how
>> to permanently hide all the other channels, but I still say it'd be way
>> easier if we had our own small server so nobody would have to hide
>> anything. (And "server" is purely a virtual thing IIUC, we don't need
>> hardware or even a dedicated VM. If there's a fee I'd be happy to pay for
>> it personally, if that's what would stop us considering this option.)
>>
>
> I actually 100% agree with using our own smaller server instead of Python
> Discord solely for core dev purposes. I think the 2020 sprint demonstrated
> well that the traffic on Python Discord can be overwhelming for those who
> aren't there for the other channels (as much as I love PyDis). Muting every
> channel manually can be quite tedious to completely suppress notifications,
> especially when there are as many as PyDis has.
>
> As far as paid options go, there's nitro which IIRC helps to improve voice
> quality and adds some other neat features, but shouldn't be strictly needed
> for our purposes.
>
> Gitter would work fine as well, I just like that Discord provides easy
> voice/video chat in the same location and seems to be where more people are
> already at these days (reducing the number of separate open channels one
> has to keep track of).
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> --
> --Kyle R. Stanley
> *Pronouns: they/them **(why is my pronoun here?*
> <http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
> )
>
> --
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/H2IR3SQEB7FBEF53WV4TKJIYVBFVGB7H/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

[Guido van Rossum]

On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 2:41 PM Senthil Kumaran  wrote:

> On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 01:54:23PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> > 2. I can handle Discord just fine nowadays but *please* don't combine
> this with
> > the Python Discord server.
>
> This was expressed by other core-devs as well.
>
> > 8. I would want a purely *social* chat that is *closed* to non-core-devs.
> > Everybody who can read it should also be able to post, and feel free to
> do so.
> > As soon as there's the possibility of spectators I clam up, or at least
> I am
> > much more guarded about what I post, defeating the purpose. (There
> should be a
> > CoC that includes "no posting elsewhere of what you see here ever".) We
> already
> > have enough channels where technical discussions are archived for
> posterity. We
> > should be careful not to have discussions that lead to decisions on such
> a chat
> > channel, because that excludes others who either weren't there at the
> time (all
> > chats are terrible when there's a lot of scrollback, almost by design)
> or who
> > just choose not to participate.
>
> This is a ver most important part here. Initially, I wasn't thinking what
> would be social vs non-social with core-dev chat. But guidelines here, that
> this is more a "team chat" - Just members of team hanging around,
> feeling comfortable to chat was my thinking.
>
> Requesting guidance on something or seeking opinions should be a part of
> "social" thingy, but, I foresee that we will have to make sure critical
> decisions don't happen in there.
>

We should treat this the same as hanging out together in person. Sometines
some folks get together and "solve" some important problem or have a
breakthrough new idea or whatever. And then they part with the commitment
that one (or several) of them will write it up and post to python-dev (or
whatever formal channel, maybe a bpo or GitHub issue or a GitHub PR) so
others can provide feedback etc.


> Given the social aspect of solution, I think, voting would best capture
> the winner and folks whose vote's didn't win will perhaps fold over to
> the winning choice.
>

Sure, I wouldn't be a sore loser.

That's the reason we had choices between IRC, Gitter, Zulip to Discord.


Wait, is there already a vote somewhere?

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/6W2QVKRALEKYEU555AEDOX5M6R5SKLOW/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

[Guido van Rossum]

1. I feel biased towards Zulip because it's open source, it's Python, and I
know the people who made it, and I don't want their creation to die. But
the UI is a little more complicated than needed (the "topic" feature in
particular) if we're just going to do this as a single social channel.

2. I can handle Discord just fine nowadays but *please* don't combine this
with the Python Discord server. That server is super active with learners
and teachers, and has hundreds of channels and it's just really hard to
ignore that activity if all you're interested in is a single channel. At
this point I'm sure Kyle will pop in with instructions for how to
permanently hide all the other channels, but I still say it'd be way easier
if we had our own small server so nobody would have to hide anything. (And
"server" is purely a virtual thing IIUC, we don't need hardware or even a
dedicated VM. If there's a fee I'd be happy to pay for it personally, if
that's what would stop us considering this option.)

3. Gitter is totally fine for this too.

4. Discourse is different. It's trying to be a better email, not a better
IRC. I think that disqualifies it for this particular purpose. (Also the UI
is too rich for the purpose.)

5. I can handle Slack too, but Slack doesn't really care about open source
users, so let's not bother with them.

6. Teams? Please no. I use it every day for work, and it's great for video
conferencing, but the group chat is terrible. Trust me.

7. IRC? I have had bad experiences here in the past, and I will never use
it again.

8. I would want a purely *social* chat that is *closed* to non-core-devs.
Everybody who can read it should also be able to post, and feel free to do
so. As soon as there's the possibility of spectators I clam up, or at least
I am much more guarded about what I post, defeating the purpose. (There
should be a CoC that includes "no posting elsewhere of what you see here
ever".) We already have enough channels where technical discussions are
archived for posterity. We should be careful not to have discussions that
lead to decisions on such a chat channel, because that excludes others who
either weren't there at the time (all chats are terrible when there's a lot
of scrollback, almost by design) or who just choose not to participate.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/HLZLYFBH3P2QQKCZCMG4TBQDUDIYHZ3T/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Commits are no longer noted in bro issues

[Guido van Rossum]

I'm guessing we have to escalate this to Ee.

On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 2:58 PM Victor Stinner  wrote:

> Any update on this issue? Nobody recalls what code and service sends a
> comment to bugs.python.org when a commit is merged?
>
> Victor
>
> On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 4:23 PM Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> >
> > Recently it seems that when a PR linked to a bpo issue is merged, no
> note of this event is made in the bpo issue. Look at
> https://bugs.python.org/issue43933 for example. There are notes for the
> first two merged PRs (25717 and 25719), at
> > https://bugs.python.org/issue43933#msg392343 and the next message. But
> I cannot find a similar note for the third PR, 26054, which is also merged.
> >
> > I recall seeing this for other recent issues as well. Did some piece of
> automation recently break? (Could it have to do with the master->main move?)
> > --
> > --Guido (mobile)
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> > Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/M2Z3WSJ4SGGH2GQ7D5NELAZSD3PECG7Q/
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
>
>
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/UCCEDQYXHKPJZTY76DRSHV72FNRZHPBV/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

[Guido van Rossum]

I’ve found Gitter works well. I’d use that, assuming it was only open to
core devs and invitees.

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 16:39 Senthil Kumaran  wrote:

> Hello Core Dev,
>
> I find a need for a core-dev chat service, wherein I could engage in
> some quick effervescent conversations.
>
> It is like a team chat, that is popular with remote work these days.
> We even seem to have used Zoom Chat yesterday!
>
> * I know #python-dev in IRC exists, but it is mostly a channel for
> bots to send notifications, and there are plenty.  I am not certain if
> any core dev is active there. There was a time when this was active.
> * We tried python discord last year, and were bit overwhelmed with the
> number of channels and inability to customize
> * There seems to be Slack called pyslackers too[1]. I am yet to try it.
>
> To have a proper team-chat, we need a service (a) as well as (b) team
> using that.
>
> Does anyone else feel the need? Should we explore any? My thoughts and
> options are
>
> a) Resurrect #python-dev - changing notifications to different group.
> b) Request for core-dev in pyslackers Slack
> c) Request for core-dev in Discord.
>
> Any other ideas are welcome.
>
> If you think that chatting is not a good idea, and a mailing list, and
> discourse(discuss.python.org) are the best option, please share your
> thoughts as well.
>
> If we feel a chat service will be a good idea for core-dev to
> hangaround, then we can go to stage 2 of choosing the service by votes
> in discourse (discuss.python.org).
>
>
> Thank you,
> Senthil
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/BVPITIYRECSGCX2JUTMT7F7CCCYQSK4K/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/EOYAWR2YDJYPGJCMSYHS7OZYM3MTFWJ5/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Commits are no longer noted in bro issues

[Guido van Rossum]

Recently it seems that when a PR linked to a bpo issue is merged, no note
of this event is made in the bpo issue. Look at
https://bugs.python.org/issue43933 for example. There are notes for the
first two merged PRs (25717 and 25719), at
https://bugs.python.org/issue43933#msg392343 and the next message. But I
cannot find a similar note for the third PR, 26054, which is also merged.

I recall seeing this for other recent issues as well. Did some piece of
automation recently break? (Could it have to do with the master->main move?)
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/M2Z3WSJ4SGGH2GQ7D5NELAZSD3PECG7Q/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: PEP 563 and Python 3.10.

[Guido van Rossum]

Thanks to the Steering Council! You have the wisdom of Solomon. Rolling
back the code that made PEP 563 the default behavior is the only sensible
solution for 3.10.

On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 11:58 AM Thomas Wouters  wrote:

>
> (Starting a new thread so as not to derail any of the ongoing discussions.)
>
> Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts on Python 3.10 and the impact of PEP
> 563 (postponed evaluation of annotations) becoming the default. The
> Steering Council has considered the issue carefully, along with many of the
> proposed alternatives and solutions, and we’ve decided that at this point,
> we simply can’t risk the compatibility breakage of PEP 563. We need to roll
> back the change that made stringified annotations the default, at least for
> 3.10. (Pablo is already working on this.)
>
> To be clear, we are not reverting PEP 563 itself. The future import will
> keep working like it did since Python 3.7. We’re delaying making PEP 563
> string-based annotations the default until Python 3.11. This will give us
> time to find a solution that works for everyone (or to find a feasible
> upgrade path for users who currently rely on evaluated annotations). Some
> considerations that led us to this decision:
>
>  - PEP 563’s default change is clearly too disruptive to downstream users
> and third-party libraries to happen right now. We can’t risk breaking even
> a small subset of the FastAPI/pydantic users, not to mention other uses of
> evaluated type annotations that we’re not aware of yet.
>  - PEP 563 provides no warning to users of the feature it’s disabling.
> Without that, we can’t expect users to be aware of the upcoming breakage.
> The lack of a warning was by design, and made sense in a world where type
> annotations were only consumed by static type checkers --- but that’s not
> actually the situation we’re in.  There are clearly existing real-world,
> run-time uses of type annotations that would be adversely affected by this
> change.
>  - Originally, PEP 563 was scheduled to take effect in Python 4, and this
> changed recently (after the discussion in the Language Summit of 2020).
> It's possible that third-party libraries and users didn’t plan to react in
> the current time frame as they were not aware of this change in timing.
>  - There isn’t enough time to properly discuss PEP 649 or any of the
> alternatives before the beta 1 deadline, and we really need to make sure we
> don’t compound errors here.  We need to look for a long term solution,
> which isn’t possible while still maintaining the release deadlines of
> Python 3.10.  That means we’re also deferring PEP 649 to Python 3.11.
>
> In the Steering Council’s unanimous opinion, rolling back the default flip
> for stringified annotations in Python 3.10 is the least disruptive of all
> the options.
>
> We need to continue discussing the issue and potential solutions, since
> this merely postpones the problem until 3.11. (For the record, postponing
> the change further is not off the table, either, for example if the final
> decision is to treat evaluated annotations as a deprecated feature, with
> warnings on use.)
>
> For what it’s worth, the SC is also considering what we can do to reduce
> the odds of something like this happening again, but that’s a separate
> consideration, and a multi-faceted one at that.
>
> For the Steering Council,
> Thomas.
> --
> Thomas Wouters 
>
> Hi! I'm an email virus! Think twice before sending your email to help me
> spread!
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/CLVXXPQ2T2LQ5MP2Y53VVQFCXYWQJHKZ/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/4BFSYEKU3P7FNRKVDD7RZXTNEEA6PRXU/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: How can I ignore email notifications on commits mentioning my GitHub handle on CPython forks?

[Guido van Rossum]

Steve Dower's workflow is to use git merge origin/master, and he did that
earlier today, causing the most recent flurry. His repo is a fork of
cpython but its master branch is 1000s of commits behind, so probably
there's some bug in GitHub where the commits being merged are seen as new.

Mariatta, maybe this info helps the GitHub folks figure out how to fix this.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:02 AM Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> I don't have much to add (this occurs to me too and I just bulk-delete the
> messages) but I wonder if the problem might be caused by a situation where
> GitHub doesn't realize that a repo is a fork of cpython? I suppose that
> could happen if someone creates a fresh repo and pushes a local clone of
> cpython to it. I'll ask Zooba what he did.
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
> <http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/OXAX3IRZMNUSVIZ4EAGKH2CRQN7SL6N4/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: How can I ignore email notifications on commits mentioning my GitHub handle on CPython forks?

[Guido van Rossum]

I don't have much to add (this occurs to me too and I just bulk-delete the
messages) but I wonder if the problem might be caused by a situation where
GitHub doesn't realize that a repo is a fork of cpython? I suppose that
could happen if someone creates a fresh repo and pushes a local clone of
cpython to it. I'll ask Zooba what he did.
-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/IT6UC5GFD3CAN6HF35ZHRZG6CSDF5YJI/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Accepting PEP 597 (Add optional EncodingWarning)

[Guido van Rossum]

On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 3:58 PM Victor Stinner  wrote:

> Congratulation INADA-san! I'm impressed by your tenacity :-)
>

+1. Great work!


> Last months, I followed your different propositions on
> discuss.python.org to use UTF-8 by default in Python. It's good to see
> the first non-controversial part being accepted! I hope that this PEP
> will help to move towards a world where we don't guess encodings
> anymore, but make them very explicit!
>

Actually, the "north star" here is a world where nobody has to think about
encodings any more. That, and world peace.


> Once the whole stdlib and most of top PyPI projects will be fixed to
> no longer emit EncodingWarning, I will become safer to opt-in for
> UTF-8 by default by enabling the Python UTF-8 Mode!
> https://docs.python.org/dev/library/os.html#python-utf-8-mode
>
> One day, we will silently switch Python to UTF-8 by default, and
> nobody will notice! ;-)
>

In particular it's important that nobody living in Japan or China should
notice. This is also still the biggest challenge. :-(

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/BSG76KC7RK4U6JE5C6PTILKNR44HUOJ7/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Acceptance of Pattern Matching PEPs 634, 635, 636, Rejection of PEPs 640 and 642

[Guido van Rossum]

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:11 AM Ethan Furman  wrote:

>
>  >> Where possible, should we retroactively make existing
>  >> keywords contextual?
>  >
>  > The benefit of contextual keywords is being able to choose popular
> method/function/variable names as new keywords
>  > without a disruptive deprecation and migration process. That benefit
> doesn't apply to existing keywords.
>
> No, but it would have the benefit of allowing existing keywords to be
> reused where it makes sense; a recent example I
> came across is the Tcl/Tk interface -- Tk has a method named `raise`, but
> it has to be renamed to tkraise because of the
> keyword clash (it's also given a `lift` alias).
>

This is a reasonable idea, with definite pros and cons. I recommend
starting a separate thread about that.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/6BDF4ECV45OTMVJPZMJ3ILARMGONAZKE/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: metaclass names and backwards compatibility

[Guido van Rossum]

Seems reasonable -- I think we've done this kind of thing before.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 3:17 PM Ethan Furman  wrote:

> The question:
>
>Can we change the name of classes if we keep the old name as an alias?
>
> The specifics:
>
>When Enum was first created for 3.4 I thought the name `EnumMeta` was
> clever and appropriate.  However, in the intervening years an error
> message has occasionally popped up with mention of an "EnumMeta object",
> and it invariably makes me think harder about what object it's talking
> about than I think I should have to.
>
>I would like to rename `EnumMeta` to `EnumType`, with an assignment of
> `EnumMeta = EnumType` at the end.  The only affect this should have is
> that those occasional error messages will now say "EnumType object"
> which will fit my brain better.
>
> Since we are allowed to change `repr()`s between major releases I thought
> this might be allowed, but wanted to check.
>
> --
> ~Ethan~
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/A6B52BFBLLOSKEX2GXUKNBFPXREO5PKB/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/JF6WRKG6JEVPT3TLJD4ZHA5NZGXFFWI7/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Document the release process on devguide?

[Guido van Rossum]

I take it that PEP 101 is updated whenever the recipe changes in any way?

On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 1:41 PM Ned Deily  wrote:

>
> On Dec 19, 2020, at 14:57, joannah nanjekye 
> wrote:
> > I got to know from Pablo that the release process is documented in a PEP
> here: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0101/
> >
> > I wonder if it makes sense for us to formalize this process by
> documenting it on devguide, and adding any extra/missing information?
>
> PEP 101 is intended to be the primary documentation of the release process
> steps from the perspective of a release manager.  It is not aimed at any
> other audience.  There is release cycle information, aimed at developers,
> in various parts of the devguide.  It could certainly be improved.  Are
> there some things in particular of value to core developers that are
> missing or could use work there?
>
> --
>   Ned Deily
>   n...@baybryj.net --  []
>
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/BGNVTKM4YRHTOVRJEWZQ6DFZFGVORHF3/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/VOEA5QHBQ2YLV6IXWFHGTVEWX3ZOZAXO/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: dependabot gone bonkers?

[Guido van Rossum]

Yup, it's because upstream cpython has this file:

https://github.com/gvanrossum/cpython/blob/master/.github/dependabot.yml

I still think this is a bug (or missing feature) in dependabot. Please +1
that issue!

On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 7:52 AM Mariatta  wrote:

> Maybe a recent change in dependabot. This open ticket seems related
> https://github.com/dependabot/dependabot-core/issues/2804
>
> On Tue., Dec. 1, 2020, 7:36 a.m. Guido van Rossum, 
> wrote:
>
>> I got this too on two forks of cpython. It smells like a dependabot
>> mistake.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 04:59 Terry Reedy  wrote:
>>
>>> This morning I woke to find that dependabot had added two new branches
>>> to my cpython fork
>>> https://github.com/terryjreedy/cpython/branches
>>> and had created corresponding PRs
>>> https://github.com/terryjreedy/cpython/pull/3
>>> https://github.com/terryjreedy/cpython/pull/4
>>>
>>> Whether all forks or all committers or just me got these, it seems
>>> wrong.  I suspect that I should just close the extraneous PRs and delete
>>> the branches.
>>>
>>> Dependabot also created the same branches and PRs directly on
>>> python/cpython.
>>> https://github.com/python/cpython/branches
>>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23582
>>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23583
>>> Only these PRs got the proper labels.  Someone should merge these PRs
>>> and delete the branches.
>>>
>>> Also, it seems that dependabot should be reconfigured to not create
>>> duplicate branches and PRs.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Terry Jan Reedy
>>> ___
>>> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
>>> Message archived at
>>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/3NREMKOZNH6Q5KMUFTPD66YAXUP6DIC4/
>>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>>
>> --
>> --Guido (mobile)
>> ___
>> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
>> Message archived at
>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/F6YDV3LBHIHORFMEGVIIFCYKZS7M4GET/
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/BDVBZIONX76PGR5PMV2BH72YRMKIADF6/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: dependabot gone bonkers?

[Guido van Rossum]

I got this too on two forks of cpython. It smells like a dependabot mistake.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 04:59 Terry Reedy  wrote:

> This morning I woke to find that dependabot had added two new branches
> to my cpython fork
> https://github.com/terryjreedy/cpython/branches
> and had created corresponding PRs
> https://github.com/terryjreedy/cpython/pull/3
> https://github.com/terryjreedy/cpython/pull/4
>
> Whether all forks or all committers or just me got these, it seems
> wrong.  I suspect that I should just close the extraneous PRs and delete
> the branches.
>
> Dependabot also created the same branches and PRs directly on
> python/cpython.
> https://github.com/python/cpython/branches
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23582
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23583
> Only these PRs got the proper labels.  Someone should merge these PRs
> and delete the branches.
>
> Also, it seems that dependabot should be reconfigured to not create
> duplicate branches and PRs.
>
> --
> Terry Jan Reedy
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/3NREMKOZNH6Q5KMUFTPD66YAXUP6DIC4/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/F6YDV3LBHIHORFMEGVIIFCYKZS7M4GET/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Python Core Developer Status Inquiry

[Guido van Rossum]

I wonder what Marc-André Lemburg is going to respond... :-)

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 1:00 PM M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:

> FYI: I have sent out the Python Code Developer status inquiries to
> these core developers, which have not committed to the CPython
> Github repo in the last two years and for which we don't have
> a status answer using the new inactivity reply feature in the
> voter roll script yet:
>
>  Alex Martelli
>  Alexandre Vassalotti
>  Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
>  Armin Ronacher
>  Christian Tismer
>  David Malcolm
>  David Wolever
>  Doug Hellmann
>  Eli Bendersky
>  Fred Drake
>  Georg Brandl
>  Hynek Schlawack
>  Jack Diederich
>  Jack Jansen
>  Jeremy Hylton
>  Kurt B. Kaiser
>  Lars Gustäbel
>  Marc-André Lemburg
>  Mark Hammond
>  Martin Panter
>  Matthias Klose
>  Meador Inge
>  PJ Eby
>  Petri Lehtinen
>  Philip Jenvey
>  Sandro Tosi
>  Sjoerd Mullender
>  Steven D'Aprano
>  Thomas Heller
>  Tim Golden
>  Trent Nelson
>
> For some more background, please have a look at the ticket
> https://github.com/python/voters/issues/16 and the associated
> PR https://github.com/python/voters/pull/25
>
> I used the email addresses from the python-core.toml file and
> will collect replies in the next two weeks and collect them
> in this PR: https://github.com/python/voters/pull/30
> This can then be merged before creating the final voter roll
> for the election.
>
> PS: I attached the mail merge template I used for the emails below.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> eGenix.com
>
> Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Nov 11 2020)
> >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Support ...https://www.egenix.com/
> >>> Python Product Development ...https://consulting.egenix.com/
> 
>
> ::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::
>
>eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
> D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
>Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
>https://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
>  https://www.malemburg.com/
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/O3CC7U2ERJLUCJRE7UOE7GIXME5VK3LL/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/XMX2SP3FALCJ45VCOWEMONOQ2WGMRWSY/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: New Python Triage members: Irit Katriel and Andre Delfino

[Guido van Rossum]

Welcome Irit and Andre!

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 5:42 PM Mariatta  wrote:

> This week, we granted bug triage permissions to two new members: Irit
> Katriel[1] and Andre Delfino[2].
>
> Irit has been active commenting on issues on the bug tracker and has
> helped move the issues along. She is also actively participating in our
> sprint this week.
>
> Andre already has the Developer role on bpo. Andre has been contributing
> to CPython for more than two years, has made lots of pull requests, many of
> them merged, and is very familiar with our workflow.
>
> Thank you Irit and Andre for all the work you do!
>
> The requests for triage role:
> [1] https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/378
> [2] https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/379
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/5BYGE5HXFBLVLO5CHW2WT6ZZNRNSKDID/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/BON5AHEGPYP4OQHK6GJ7LMTOJGO6QDSD/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: workflow enhancement: a `mark bug as fixed` PR tag [feature request]

[Guido van Rossum]

Once issues move to GitHub we’ll have this with no additional effort.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:14 Gregory P. Smith  wrote:

> We've got the automerge tag on GH, it+bot make it awesome. There's one
> more thing I'd like to see that could help with bug hygiene: A tag to close
> the associated bug as "fixed" after the merge happens.
>
> This doesn't have to be tied to automerge; in practice you'd find them
> used in unison somewhat often. More readily on features done on the main
> branch rather than bug fixes needing backports to multiple releases.
>
> We've had such a system at work for so long I don't even remember when it
> was added, but it has been a great time saver. Less more bugs laying
> around fixed but not marked as such.  Less need for triagers to manually
> ask someone who has the permissions to change the bug state. Less
> unintentionally still open bugs in the way distracting people.  Good all
> around.
>
> It isn't the primary way to close issues, but it helps in situations where
> it makes sense.  I'd assume the same set of people allowed to add automerge
> should be allowed to add this label.
>
> -gps
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/RTIPINYIWF7IDEEJOVFTMGZPJ2SMYQC3/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/A6HPANBCT3RHXLBXMQMXCSMLVEQCRF4A/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Thank you Larry Hastings!

[Guido van Rossum]

Thank you Larry!

On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 11:39 AM Barry Warsaw  wrote:

> They say being a Python Release Manager is a thankless job, so the Python
> Secret Underground (PSU), which emphatically does not exist, hereby
> officially doesn’t thank Larry for his years of diligent service as the
> Python 3.4 and 3.5 release manager.
>
> On the other hand, the Python Steering Council, Python Software
> Foundation, and worldwide Python community, all of which emphatically *do*
> exist, all extend our heartfelt thanks to Larry for his excellent
> stewardship of Python 3.4 and 3.5!
>
> Python 3.4 and 3.5 were both pivotal releases.  While the features of
> these two releases are too numerous to mention here, they introduced such
> staples as:
>
> * asyncio
> * enum
> * pathlib
> * async and await keywords
> * matrix multiplication operators
> * typing and zipapp modules
>
> and so much more.  For details, see:
>
> * https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.4.html
> * https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.5.html
>
> Larry’s first official release of 3.4.0a1 was on 2013-08-03 and his last
> Python 3.5.10 release was 2020-09-05.  That’s 7 years of exemplary release
> managing!
>
> Larry, from all of us, and from me personally, thank you so much for your
> invaluable contributions to Python.  Enjoy your retirement!
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry (on behalf of the PSC and PSF)
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/QGIHFU64TBYT56K6M5A5LYTYTSVFKHWQ/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/5BQHPUAVD2CVLUEF3S32HHLL5GYZ2BLY/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Vote to promote Brandt Bucher

[Guido van Rossum]

Hi y'all,

Pablo and I have opened a poll to promote Brandt Bucher as a core developer.

https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-brandt-bucher/5135

Please vote!

Be safe, be well,

--Guido and Pablo

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/WJUDKIIYKNDEKZHJJL3YK27XLCPY7YRE/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Please avoid non-bugfix changes during the beta phase

[Guido van Rossum]

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 7:21 PM Raymond Hettinger <
raymond.hettin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My two cents: I think this should be a little more liberal. At beta 1,
> freeze the addition of new features but continue to tweak the
> implementation with code clean-ups, additional tests, algorithmic
> improvements, and better docs.  For many of the devs (and users), the first
> time we get to exercise and interact with some of the new features is
> during the beta — that is our chance to improve and stabilize it before it
> goes out the door.  If a new API proves awkward in some way, the time to
> find out and improve it is during the beta.  Ideally, we would like both
> the API and implementation to mature a bit before the release (first draft
> != final copy).  A release candidate is different — that is close to an
> across-the-board freeze.  Once the release happens, bug fixes and
> documentation tweaks will continue to be checked in for the next
> micro-release.
>

I've occasionally left it up to Łukasz to add the "needs 3.9 backport"
label to a PR of mine. That seems a good way to keep the release manager
happy. :-)

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/YXRVZUF2MP5KRPWWSBZL6D5XH2V5RNRY/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Please welcome our next Release Manager, Pablo!

[Guido van Rossum]

Huge congrats, Pablo. And thanks to Lukasz for 3.8 and 3.9. They’re all the
greatest release ever!

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 15:54 Barry Warsaw  wrote:

> In light of the release of Python 3.9b1, let’s take a moment to celebrate
> all the great work that our Python 3.8 and 3.9 release manager Łukasz has
> done.  The role of Python Release Manager is hugely important to each
> successful release, and it can be a lot of work, often unseen and thankless
> to shepherd a new Python version through its first alpha release to its
> last security release.  With all of your immeasurable help, the Release
> Manager ensures solid, feature-full releases that the entire Python
> community eagerly awaits.
>
> Łukasz carries on the fine tradition of all of our past release managers,
> and now that his second release has entered beta phase, I’m very happy to
> announce our next Release Manager, for Python 3.10 and 3.11: Pablo Galindo
> Salgado!
>
> Since becoming a core developer in 2018, Pablo has contributed
> significantly to Python.  With the change to an annual release cycle (PEP
> 602, authored by Łukasz), the time commitment for release managers has been
> reduced as well, and we will continue to look for ways to make the
> selection process for release managers more transparent and accessible.  I
> know that in addition to admirably managing the releases for 3.10 and 3.11,
> Pablo will also help to continually improve the process of selecting and
> serving as release manager.
>
> Please join me in welcoming Pablo in his new role!
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/44TLJO5YX6XYM4ICWSHMBMCKPBBQQP5S/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/AADUVN5OJTL365WQJGIHHN67DJJFR5XE/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Language Summit

[Guido van Rossum]

On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 5:38 PM Eric V. Smith  wrote:

> I can't decide if it's worth continuing my work on a PEP. I need to
> re-read and consider the various questions and suggestions from today.
> Thanks, everyone, for your input.
>

Even if we decide not to do it, I think it would still be useful to have a
PEP with the pros and cons of various design choices written up. Negative
results are results too! (I think this was part of the original plan for
PEPs, although right now I can't find it in PEP 0.)

F-strings are such a tremendous success that it's inevitable that making
them the default will come up again, so the effort of writing up how it
could be done and what problems it would encounter won't be a waste.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/4BTRKOD7GYFPE7HA6RDFT7MUQHHUED7C/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Welcome Dong-hee Na to the team!

[Guido van Rossum]

Welcome to our little corner of the world, Dong-hee! I am looking forward
to working with you.

--Guido

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 8:33 PM Dong-hee Na  wrote:

> Thank you for your very warm welcome while the world struggles with
> COVID-19.
>
> And thank you all for your contributions to Python over the last 30 years.
>
> My first meeting with Python Core developer was Carol at the Python
> 2019 Sprint held in Seoul, Korea last year. And I still remember her
> kind explanation.
>
> I still don't know all the parts of Python interpreter/compiler. Also,
> I am not an expert on a particular module yet.
> But I think the core developers' votes are looking forward to my
> growth potential, and I will try to develop Python into a better
> language in line with your expectations.
>
> Also, I would like to express my sincere gratitude to Victor for
> recommending me a promotion as a core developer.
> Victor has been mentoring me since I was a member of Triage.
> I expect you to give me mentoring in the future.
> I thank him in advance for his continuous mentoring and contributions.
>
> And I'd like to thank all the other core developers who reviewed my
> patches, including Serhiy, Naoki-San, Yuri, and Pablo that I couldn't
> mention at all.
>
> Finally, Python is a language that has been well maintained and grown
> for more than 30 years, but it will continue to grow. I will do my
> best to make Python a greater language.
>
> Once again, thank you for your welcome and warmth. I look forward to
> meeting all of us safely in the near future.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Regards,
> Dong-hee
>
> cc.
> If I had to wait for the announcement of the Steering Committee
> (https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-dong-hee-na/3794/2 )
> before writing this email,
> Thank you for your understanding in advance.
>
> 2020년 4월 9일 (목) 오전 11:18, Karthikeyan 님이 작성:
> >
> > Congratulations Dong-hee Na. Welcome to the team :)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Karthikeyan S
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020, 6:54 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:
> >>
> >> Assuming I didn't botch anything, Dong-hee should be all set up!
> >> ___
> >> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> >> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/5ZZVHJHAEHT3DW5Q3X5S336KM5FE4B2C/
> >> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> > Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/B7SACOAL66SNWF77JMFG7CN3LGSWO33Q/
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
>
>
> --
> Software Development Engineer at Kakao corp.
>
> Tel: +82 010-3353-9127
> Email: donghee.n...@gmail.com | denn...@kakaocorp.com
> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dong-hee-na-2b713b49/
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/OG6YCLER7DOQ6M7TGTXZCSADO23BUQH3/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/DG2PZZTXEHDKYKQKWY6CP4B3GFXRHIKB/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: bpo email problems - Is there someone in the infra boat?

[Guido van Rossum]

I've had to do this too in the past.

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 4:33 PM Victor Stinner  wrote:

> FYI I'm using a Gmail filter to ensure that emails coming from
> rep...@bugs.python.org are never marked as spam.
>
> Victor
>
> Le ven. 28 févr. 2020 à 20:51, Antoine Pitrou  a
> écrit :
> >
> >
> > Le 28/02/2020 à 19:56, Mariatta a écrit :
> > > I think this is same issue
> > > as https://github.com/python/bugs.python.org/issues/38
> > >
> > > To get in touch with infrastructure team, you can write
> > > to infrastructure-staff at python dot org
> >
> > I'm not sure it's the same issue (my problems started end of last year /
> > this year, while Victor reported his issue in July 2019), but I
> > forwarded the e-mail to infrastructure-staff anyway.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Antoine.
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> > Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/6LLZR44AUL2TXONALCLMP2R2MRWA7HVW/
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
>
>
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/YE6LHAPPGVYD2NO77WAQOBF443LFC5XJ/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/K3HLX6AVNTW5LFTA2VS4YDTJZOQWO675/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: bpo email problems - Is there someone in the infra boat?

[Guido van Rossum]

The solution seems obvious: move to GitHub. :-)

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 11:51 Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

>
> Le 28/02/2020 à 19:56, Mariatta a écrit :
> > I think this is same issue
> > as https://github.com/python/bugs.python.org/issues/38
> >
> > To get in touch with infrastructure team, you can write
> > to infrastructure-staff at python dot org
>
> I'm not sure it's the same issue (my problems started end of last year /
> this year, while Victor reported his issue in July 2019), but I
> forwarded the e-mail to infrastructure-staff anyway.
>
> Thank you
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/6LLZR44AUL2TXONALCLMP2R2MRWA7HVW/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/YCAHXFRZXPRCIBUXGEQTTPHVCCXR6JXZ/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Batuhan Taskaya got the bug triage permission

[Guido van Rossum]

Yes, congrats Batuhan!

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 07:28 Carol Willing  wrote:

> Congrats Batuhan! Thanks for contributing to CPython :D
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 12:59 PM Pablo Galindo Salgado <
> pablog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been mentoring Batuhan Taskaya ("BTaskaya" on BPO, "isidentical"
>> on GitHub) for
>> the past few months. We have been working closely together on some
>> features as "ast.unparse",
>> many bugfixes and documentation improvements. He has around  27 commits
>> merged in CPython
>> (master branch) and he has been helping to triage and debugging some
>> issues on BPO.
>>
>> He has made great progress in learning the CPython workflow, CPython
>> internals and how to keep
>> things maintainable and backwards compatible so I decided to give him bug
>> triage permission.
>>
>> I will continue mentoring him and I will send him instructions on how to
>> triage bugs and links to the
>> relevant sections of the devguide. I ask him to ask me before closing
>> bugs for the first weeks.
>>
>> Congrats, Batuhan!
>> ___
>> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
>> Message archived at
>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/PDAD36IJBZCMA6LZVNR2CG5Q6LMXKJJS/
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>
>
> --
> *Carol Willing*
>
> Willing Consulting 
>
> *Signature strengths*
> *Empathy - Relator - Ideation - Strategic - Learner*
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/AZZ4WIPQNM7XPT3H4XZQSFXQW7NGLDCC/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/DTQNB7SM6HBUJHYGSWCXLSBC4X6246MI/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: Who wants to be the next tarfile maintainer?

[Guido van Rossum]

Once a core dev, always a core dev (unless you’re fired). Git permissions
can be reinstated no questions asked.

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 15:25 Victor Stinner  wrote:

> If a core dev asks to have their commit bit removed, what happens if
> they change their mind? Do we have go through the usual vote process?
> Or should we just add it back whenever they ask?
>
> Victor
>
> Le mer. 4 déc. 2019 à 21:23, Brett Cannon  a écrit :
> >
> > You ask me to do it. :) I have gone ahead and revoked them.
> >
> > Thanks for all your help over the years, Lars!
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> > Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/DWJS4I4G6DQINY4YPGG7AKJIBKHWWJJJ/
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
>
>
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/RF4GH44A2Z2DHVFN5Y3FC3ZKC74GJXVA/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/HORCHGM3C3OFC3C4NO44WUO6VRLVVR5R/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Re: PEP 581/588 RFC: Collecting feedback about GitHub Issues

[Guido van Rossum]

TBH, for me it's quite the opposite. There are too many mailing list
threads and it's often hard to catch up on them because there's a lot of
pointless back and forth and quite frequently the discussion diverges to
topics that are not of interest. I am used to having many important design
discussions in GitHub issues and frankly it works well.

I'm not saying that it will or should feel the same for everyone. But I do
want to emphasize that not everyone experiences the same dread when
requested to use a GitHub issue that you and Raymond seem to feel.

--Guido

On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 4:04 AM Paul Moore  wrote:

> I have to say that I agree with Raymond here. I don't think that an
> issue tracker is a good way to collect this sort of feedback. To be
> honest, I don't feel that there's going to be much scope to address
> the sorts of concerns being raised here, so I'm not clear how much
> value there will be in the discussion, ultimately, but I do think that
> having a single conversation/thread/topic that covers the "big
> picture" is important, as for some people the problem is going to be
> an accumulation of small problems, rather than any one big
> showstopper. And tracker items have, in my experience, a tendency to
> dilute the impact of that sort of accumulation.
>
> It seems like the idea here is that we handle the discussion on how to
> use the github tracker for Python issues, by using a github tracker
> for the plan. Does that not result in a problem, because people
> uncomfortable with the github tracker will be uncomfortable with the
> means they are required to use to express that discomfort, and so
> their voice won't get heard? Personally, I have a workflow that works
> (just about) for me, for handling any given github issue tracker
> (filtering email notifications to a dedicated folder for the tracker)
> but that method does not scale very well, and it *definitely* doesn't
> work for following trackers on an adhoc basis. So I'm not going to
> easily be able to follow discussion on the
> tracker-for-discussing-issues-with-the-proposed-cpython-issue-tracker
> (ERROR: Recursion depth exceeded ;-)) So I guess I give up and leave
> the decision to others. In my case, not that big of a deal, as I don't
> use the current tracker that heavily - but if someone like Raymond
> takes that view, that's (IMO) quite a lot more serious.
>
> Paul
>
> On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 at 06:20,  wrote:
> >
> > Are you saying that this whole thread of issues will be ignored unless
> we all go to another forum, post a dozen separate issues, and recreate all
> of the discussion that already these threads?
> >
> > That doesn't seem reasonable to me for several reasons: 1) it is
> unlikely that the full thread content would survive the forum transfer, so
> that some important aspects of the conversation will be lost, 2) some of us
> have very few clocks cycles available to allocate because discussion
> threads and actual core development, 3) this is outside our historical norm
> -- we normally do PEP level discussions on the lists rather than in many
> separate issues, 4) the separate issue approach (particularly if it is in
> core-workflow) won't have much visibility or participation for the folks
> who currently do most of the work on the tracker, and 5) having separate
> issues tends to obscure the big picture of how much functionality will be
> lost as a result of the migration and how much disruption will be caused by
> breaking existing user conversations and losing searchable history.
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> > Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/2HWYHURO7XETBZO7YR4V6JDWX3FA2OA5/
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/C2RRCOM2XN2D77RWCID72YDOLN5V33I5/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>

[python-committers] Re: Python 3.8.0 final release and election of a new Steering Council?

[Guido van Rossum]

The current SC discussed this a bit in the past and IIRC our view is that
we can will start sorting out the details for the next election some time
after the final release of 3.8.0. Note that PEP 13 doesn't say "immediately
after" or "as soon as", so we have a bit of leeway with the organization. I
don't recall that we debated who should manage the vote. I presume it will
be run pretty similar to the initial SC election though.

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 5:04 AM Victor Stinner  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The PEP 13 says "A new council is elected after each feature release."
> Does it mean that we need elect a new Steering Council before/after
> Python 3.8.0 final release which is scheduled at 2019-10-21 (in more
> or less one month)?
>
> If a vote is organized, when should "Candidates advertise their
> interest in serving"? What will be the duration of the election phases
> and who will manage the vote?
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#electing-the-council
>
> Victor
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/Q64NROQCBD43RLF5B77CZQFYCSAASBG7/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him/his **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list -- python-committers@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-committers-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committers@python.org/message/KCUJNZ7SB44S6PDWZC7KU7TSGGRIULLP/
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Vote on changes to PEP 13 to specify voting time frames

[Guido van Rossum]

Thanks!

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 15:26 Brett Cannon  wrote:

> The vote has closed and the ayes have it with 85% of the vote. Thanks to
> everyone who participated!
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Brett Cannon  wrote:
>
>>
>> https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-on-pep-13-change-to-specify-voting-time-frames/1510
>>
>> Summary: one week to vote for new core devs, two weeks for PEP 13 changes
>> (which is how long I set the vote on Discourse to be open for). This change
>> is approved by the steering council.
>>
>> And as a reminder, changes to PEP 13 require a 2/3 approval by voters.
>>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019

[Guido van Rossum]

On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:05 PM Ezio Melotti  wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 10:44 PM Guido van Rossum 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 11:10 AM Victor Stinner 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Would it be possible to discuss these PEPs on python-dev? Or is it a
> deliberate choice to not let non core dev to be involved in the discussion?
> >
> >
> > It was not a deliberate choice by the Steering Council. I remind you
> that this is always going to remain controversial. I have one request:
> please don't start a vote or poll.
>
> Do you mean that the decision to switch to GitHub Issues has already
> been taken (so vote/polls would be pointless), or is the discussion
> still open?
>

The latter. I meant to warn Victor not to start a poll before prematurely
-- we should first attempt to find (rough) consensus.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him/his **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019

[Guido van Rossum]

On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 11:10 AM Victor Stinner  wrote:

> Would it be possible to discuss these PEPs on python-dev? Or is it a
> deliberate choice to not let non core dev to be involved in the discussion?
>

It was not a deliberate choice by the Steering Council. I remind you that
this is always going to remain controversial. I have one request: please
don't start a vote or poll.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him/his **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Steering Council Update for April 2019

[Guido van Rossum]

I've posted an update from the Steering Council to our repo:

https://github.com/python/steering-council/blob/master/updates/2019-04-26_steering-council-update.md

I will also link to this on python-dev and on Discourse (discuss.python.org
).

For completeness, below is the full text.

# Steering Council Update

Date: 2019-04-26

Steering Council updates will be posted irregularly and as needed.
We strive to post at least once every month.  We provide these updates
to foster open and transparent communication about Steering Council
activity.

## Message from the Steering Council

Sorry we've been silent for a while!  We've all been swamped with
work, but we've been meeting regularly.  Below are some of the
outcomes of our conversations.  Many of you will be happy to hear that
we've cleared the backlog of PEPs by assigning BDFL-Delegates to
almost all outstanding PEPs.  We're also appearing at PyCon US.

---

## Mandate

This section organizes Steering Council (SC) activity and projects
using the mandates listed in PEP 13.

### Language

> Maintain the quality and stability of the Python language and CPython
interpreter

- We've begun to explore the options for improving the interpreter in
  the future, but apart from the PEP work detailed below we've not come to
any
  conclusions yet.  In the coming months we hope to come up with
  guidelines and a process for evolving the interpreter, to be
  developed in close participation with the core developers and
  representatives of various user bases.

### Contributors

> Make contributing as accessible, inclusive, and sustainable as possible

- **Communications channels:** We have an array of communication
  options, depending on the context.

  - To reach core committers specifically, we will use
python-committers@python.org.

  - To reach the entire Python developer community, we will use
python-...@python.org.

  - For specific requests to the SC, please use
the public GitHub tracker at
https://github.com/python/steering-council/issues.

  - To reach just the SC, you can email us at
steering-coun...@python.org.

  - We will also occasionally use Discourse, at
https://discuss.python.org (for example, Discourse is useful for
polls and votes).

- **Issue tracker:** We've discussed PEP 581, "Using GitHub Issues for
  CPython" by Mariatta Wijaya.  We're in favor of this move, and feel
  that the transition should be professionally planned and executed.
  In collaboration with the PSF we're exploring ideas on how to do
  that (using the successful roll-out of the new Warehouse
  infrastructure for PyPI as a model).


### PEPs

> Establish appropriate decision-making processes for PEPs

- To request a PEP review, please file an issue on the
  [SC issue tracker](https://github.com/python/steering-council/issues).

- We've appointed BDFL-Delegates (BDs) to a number of PEPs, after
  ensuring that the proposed BD and the PEP author(s) agree on the
  appointment:

  - PEP 558 "Defined semantics for locals()", Nick Coghlan.
*Appointed Nathaniel J. Smith as BD.*

  - PEP 497, "A standard mechanism for backward compatibility", Ed
Schofield.
*Appointed Brett Cannon as BD on behalf of the SC.*

  - PEP 387 "Backwards Compatibility Policy", Benjamin Peterson.
*Appointed Brett Cannon as BD on behalf of the SC.*

  - PEP 554, "Multiple Interpreters in the Stdlib", Eric Snow.
*Appointed Antoine Pitrou as BD.* (BD and author have indicated
that this PEP will be postponed until Python 3.9.)

  - PEP 586, PEP 589, PEP 591 (various typing PEPs by members of the
mypy team and others, topics Literal, TypedDict, and Final).
*Appointed Guido van Rossum as BD.*  (PEP 544, Protocols, also
belongs in this list; Guido made himself BD last year.)

  - PEP 578, "Python Runtime Audit Hooks", Steve Dower.
*Appointed Christian Heimes as BD.*

  - PEPs 576, 579, 580, 590 (competing PEPs on C function call
optimizations by Mark Shannon and Jeroen Demeyer; note that PEP
576 is withdrawn in favor of PEP 590).
*Appointed Petr Viktorin as BD.*

  - PEP 533, "Deterministic cleanup for iterators", Nathaniel J. Smith.
*Appointed Yury Selivanov as BD.*

  - PEP 570, "Python Positional-Only Parameters", by Larry Hastings,
Pablo Galindo and others.
*Appointed Guido van Rossum as BD.*  (And he approved it!)

  - PEP 574, "Pickle protocol 5 with out-of-band data", Antoine Pitrou.
*Appointed Nick Coghlan as BD.*

  - PEP 573, "Module State Access from C Extension Methods", Petr
Viktorin and others.
*Postponed to Python 3.9.  Appointed Stefan Behnel as BD.*

- And we've updated the status of some other PEPs:

  - PEP 557 "Data Classes", Eric V Smith.  *Marked Final.*

  - PEP 467 "Minor API improvements for binary sequences&

Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Stéphane Wirtel as a core dev

[Guido van Rossum]

Note that it would have to be in the Committers topic.

On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 11:45 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:

> We discussed this and we think an anonymous vote on discuss.python.org is
> probably best for this sort of thing.
>
> Victor, did you want to do the poll or would you prefer I set it up?
>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 10:01 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 9:33 AM M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>>
>>> +1 (not exactly sure how the vote would work, so at this point just
>>> an indication of support)
>>>
>>
>> I've started a discussion with the council to see how we may want to
>> handle it.
>>
>> -Brett
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2019 16:40, Victor Stinner wrote:
>>> > Oh. I forgot to mention that I offer to mentor Stéphane once he would
>>> > become a core dev for 1 month for help him to deal with his new
>>> > responsibilities. I would require him to ask me before merging any PR
>>> > during the mentoring.
>>> >
>>> > Victor
>>> >
>>> > Le ven. 22 mars 2019 à 16:34, Victor Stinner  a
>>> écrit :
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi,
>>> >>
>>> >> Julien Palard and me (Victor) propose to promote Stéphane Wirtel as
>>> >> core developer. We open a vote until March 31 (~one week). "[A
>>> >> promotion] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds positive votes
>>> >> in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council."
>>> >> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#the-core-team
>>> >>
>>> >> Some of you already met him at Pycon US or EuroPython.
>>> >>
>>> >> Stéphane is contributing to Python since 2014. He fixed bugs in
>>> >> various parts of the code, but also implemented some nice
>>> >> features:
>>> >>
>>> >> * -d option of "python3 -m http.server -d DIRECTORY"
>>> >>to serve a specific directory using Python builtin HTTP Server
>>> >> * --fast and --best options on gzip CLI: "python3 -m gzip [options]
>>> file"
>>> >>
>>> >> (Julien told me that he frequently uses "python3 -m http.server -d
>>> >> DIRECTORY" to read the Python documentation :-))
>>> >>
>>> >> In my experience, Stéphane *likes* getting review and is fine to make
>>> >> any change on his code. It's not an issue to work with him, it's more
>>> >> the opposite :-) For example, it doesn't get mad if one of his PR is
>>> >> rejected ;-) (I'm saying that because *I* sometimes get mad about
>>> >> that, sorry for being emotional :-))
>>> >>
>>> >> He got 57 commits merged into the master branch of Python: authored 46
>>> >> commits + co-authored 1 commit + 10 commits before Git ("Patch written
>>> >> by Stéphane Wirtel").
>>> >>
>>> >> He organized a Python conference at FOSDEM 5 times in a row (between
>>> >> 80 and 800 persons per year) and got a PSF Community Service Awards in
>>> >> June 2016 for that: "Stéphane Wirtel for his work organizing a Python
>>> >> User Group in Belgium, for his continued work creating marketing
>>> >> material for the PSF, for his continued outreach efforts with
>>> >> spreading the PSF's mission."
>>> >> https://www.python.org/community/awards/psf-awards/#june-2016
>>> >>
>>> >> He is also helping to organize EuroPython, by working on the website
>>> >> or being a volunteer on-site.
>>> >>
>>> >> He gave a lot of Python talks all around the world at many Pycon
>>> >> (France, EuroPython, Canda, Italy, Ireland, UK, San Sebastiàn,
>>> >> Slovakia, Ukraine) and at FOSDEM (Belgium). For example, he gave talks
>>> >> about Python internals (bytecode, parser), and on Python development
>>> >> workflow and Pull Requests.
>>> >>
>>> >> He is always volunteer to help the Python project, not only the code.
>>> >> For example, he is a committer on the developer guide (devguide).
>>> >>
>>> >> He is helping other contributors get their bugs fixed or to get their
>>> >> changes merged. He participated to not less than 218 PR: ping the
>>> >> right core dev who can review/help, test manually to validate and
>>> >> provide good feedback, propose enhancements, etc. Sometimes, he just
>>> >> says "Thank you for your contribution" which is IMHO a good practice
>>> >> for a healthy community :-) (we don't do that often enough!)
>>> >>
>>> >> Stéphane is involved in Python for 5 years. To be honest, he should
>>> >> have been promoted earlier, but I (Victor) wasn't sure to promote him
>>> >> myself because I know him too well, and so I wasn't objective about
>>> >> his work. But well, now it's time, and Julien is supporting his
>>> >> promotion as well ;-)
>>> >>
>>> >> Links:
>>> >>
>>> >> * https://wirtel.be/
>>> >> * https://twitter.com/matrixise
>>> >>
>>> >> Julien and Victor
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>> eGenix.com
>>>
>>> Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Mar 22 2019)
>>> >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> >>> Python Database Interfaces ...   http://products.egenix.com/
>>> >>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...   http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> _

Re: [python-committers] Can we choose between mailing list and discuss.python.org?

[Guido van Rossum]

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 6:01 PM Ned Deily  wrote:

> On Feb 12, 2019, at 20:36, Barry Warsaw  wrote:
>
> On Feb 12, 2019, at 13:59, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
> I know I can browse easily through a 161-message mailing-list or
>
> newsgroup thread using a traditional threaded view, read what I want,
>
> come back later to read the rest, etc.  But Discourse's linear
>
> presentation pretty much kills that ability.  It doesn't even allow
>
> *seeing* the structure of the discussion.
>
> That’s pretty much my same, biggest gripe about long GitHub issues and
> PRs. ;)
>
>
> But you realize that this a feature, not a bug? :)
>
> https://blog.codinghorror.com/web-discussions-flat-by-design/
>

Thanks for the link. I'm convinced. (No sarcasm.)

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] 2019 Steering Council Election Results

[Guido van Rossum]

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 8:20 AM Ernest W. Durbin III 
wrote:

> Antoine noted the same lack of transparency at
> https://discuss.python.org/t/2019-steering-council-election-results/824/3?u=ewdurbin
> .
>
> Ultimately I chose to initial publish results ASAP at the minimum
> granularity necessary given that there wasn’t direction on what level of
> detail should be published. I agree that transparency is key here, but as
> it wasn’t specified on in 8016/13/8100 I went with what we have.
>
> I can open a PR to 8100 with detailed results if no objections are heard.
>

I would wait until you have explicit permission from every candidate. (You
probably will have to reach out to some.) I hereby grant you mine.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] 2019 Steering Council Election Results

[Guido van Rossum]

As a voter, I can see the full list of how many votes each candidate
received. I wonder if this should be published somewhere? There are some
interesting speculations possible about the spread of the numbers ,and they
give extra data on how the voters seem to think and which (types of)
candidates are likely to do well in future elections.

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 4:13 AM Ernest W. Durbin III 
wrote:

> Voting closed at 2019-02-04 12:00 UTC as prescribed in [PEP 8100](
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8100/).
>
> Of 96 eligible voters, 69 cast ballots.
>
> The top five vote-getters are:
>
> - Barry Warsaw
> - Brett Cannon
> - Carol Willing
> - Guido van Rossum
> - Nick Coghlan
>
> No conflict of interest as defined in PEP 13 were observed.
>
> Eligible voters have received result notification emails from helios, and
> may return to the system to audit/verify the results.
>
> Thanks to all participants! It was an honor serving as the administrator
> for the governance votes.
>
> -Ernest W. Durbin III
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] *Important*: Python governance vote (December 2018): Ballots Sent

[Guido van Rossum]

But he was (search the dev guide), and he is seeking to activate his GitHub
committer bit (see his python-dev emails). Can someone help him with that?

On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 9:21 AM Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

>
> I may misremember, but I don't think Chris is a committer.
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>
>
> Le 02/12/2018 à 15:57, Eric V. Smith a écrit :
> > On 12/2/2018 9:46 AM, Chris Withers wrote:
> >>
> >> In fact, it looks like https://github.com/python/voters is entirely
> >> private. How does one get access to it?
> >>
> > Are you logged in to github with your python committer id?
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >> On 02/12/2018 14:42, Chris Withers wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The link you forwarded 404's for me. I can't see a "reply" button on
> >>>
> https://discuss.python.org/t/python-governance-vote-december-2018-ballots-sent/496
> >>>
> >>> On 01/12/2018 17:59, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> >>>> Hello,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm forwarding this for the benefit of all who don't follow Discourse
> >>>> actively.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Antoine.
> >>>>
> >>>> ___
> >>>> python-committers mailing list
> >>>> python-committers@python.org
> >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> >>>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> python-committers mailing list
> >>> python-committers@python.org
> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> >>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >>
> >> ___
> >> python-committers mailing list
> >> python-committers@python.org
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> >> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list
> > python-committers@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Timeline to vote for a governance PEP

[Guido van Rossum]

u are providing no information
> about
> > how this choice ranks with respect to the other choices. For example, if
> you give
> > one choice the rank 1, and give all other choices the rank “no opinion”,
> your
> > ballot becomes useless because it doesn't express any preferences.
> > Voters often pick “no opinion” when what they mean is that they don't
> like the choice
>
> In that case they should rank it near the bottom instead.
>
> > or that they don't have any information about it.
>
> Which is surely what it's _intended_ to be used for!  "No opinion", in
> which case the ballot doesn't pretend the missing choice is either
> better or worse than any other choice.  You're leaving its fate
> entirely to people who _do_ have an opinion then.
>
> > In these situations, it is often better to give the choice a low rank
> rather than
> > to select “no opinion”. A good reason for a voter to give a choice the
> rank
> > “no opinion” is because the voter isn't supposed to express an opinion
> > about that choice.
>
> Heh - who runs a vote where voters aren't "supposed" to express their
> opinions?  Or is this site hosted in the DPRK? ;-)
>
>
> > It sounds to me like no opinion is a bit of a footgun here, so I think
> it makes
> > sense not to allow it (probably the case of where you don’t have an
> opinion,
> > you’re better off just ranking it last like the FAQ suggests).
>
> I'd disallow it, but because it's likely to be misunderstood.  The
> _usual_ treatment of missing rankings in a Condorcet scheme is that
> they're shorthand for saying "least favored".  For example, in a
> 17-person primary, you just rank your 3 favorites, and it's understood
> that the other 14 are all tied for last place in your eyes.
>
> That's _very_ different from treating them as "no opinion".  In the
> primary, you're recording 3 losses for each of the missing 14, and you
> wholly _intend_ to give them those losses.
>
> > ...
> > Yea. And my suggestion of Ernest is that well, an evil Ernest can
> already fuck
> > shit up for the Python community way beyond trying to change how we make
> > decisions about PEPs and such (and he’s not a core dev, so he doesn’t
> have
> > a horse in this race). Although I don’t really care who runs it, I think
> anyone
> > here is going to be honest about it.
> >
> > I can say as a supervisor you also can’t see how people have voted at
> all until
> > after the voting ends. You can only see how many people voted. This
> makes it
> > harder to meaningfully influence the election because you won’t be able
> to
> > make targeted, strategic puppet votes without either doing it blindly or
> flooding
> > the votes to a degree that it would be obvious.
>
> No problem here with any of that.  Potential dishonesty in PythonLand
> is far less a problem than that we fail to get anything done fretting
> about proving how nothing could possibly be manipulated.  In fact, we
> could almost certainly trust any one of the competing PEP's authors to
> tally the votes, destroy the ballots, and just tell us who won :--)
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] python-committers is dead, long live discuss.python.org

[Guido van Rossum]

Let's say that Łukasz went a little overboard when he told everybody to
abandon the mailing list right now, especially in the light of the upcoming
elections (first we will vote to choose a constitution, then we'll vote
according to the rules set by that constitution on the new leadership).

That said, I am fully in favor of the current experiment where we're trying
to figure out whether Discourse can work for us. I have signed up myself
and it's pretty easy. There were a few moments where I didn't know how to
do certain things, but these were quickly resolved. I recommend everyone at
least give it a try for a few days. And the admins are pretty active right
now so if you ask for help you'll get it almost instantly. Will it work in
the long term? We don't know yet. We'll have to give it a serious try.

But the mailing list isn't dead, and those who don't want to bother with
the Discourse experiment can keep using the list. This will be an extra
burden for those who feel the need to follow every discussion -- but I
think it's worth it to ensure that nobody feels left behind. The people
running the elections, in particular, will have to make sure that important
deadlines and voting instructions are posted to the mailing list (in
addition to Discourse) to ensure that we reach everyone. I will personally
definitely follow both.

A bit off-topic: For something as important as these elections I think we
need to use voting software, rather than relying on +1 and -1 on the list
(or Discourse polls, no matter how cute they are :-), and the voting
software should also send each voter reminders and instructions for
upcoming votes -- but realistically we won't have working email addresses
for some voters, and the list might encourage them to register their email
so they'll be able to vote.

Note that there's no point in demanding that all election-related
discussion happen in the mailing list -- there's always been chatter on
other media such as IRC (which I myself never read), Twitter, and private
email. What's happening here is important enough to non-core-devs that
we'll inevitably also see outsiders debating our future in blogs, on
Facebook and on Twitter. (And, alas, also on Reddit.)

The election organizers will ensure that everyone can be aware of the
elections and where to get info about them. But staying informed as a voter
is work, and if you care about this community, you'll have to do that work.
Getting to know a new online tool isn't going to kill you.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

[Guido van Rossum]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:28 AM Mariatta Wijaya  wrote:

> My proposal is taking into consideration The PSF's mission and diversity
> statement. I will not remove the diversity clause from PEP 8011.
>

+1


> To save us all trouble of discussing this particular issue, for those of
> you who disagree completely, and have other ideas about how you'd like
> Python to be governed and who should be in it, you can do one or more of
> the following:
>
> - not vote on my PEP
> - vote on the other PEPs
> - write their own PEP
>

I would remind people that it's well documented that diverse group make
better decisions. And given that there is a historical bias, often
unconscious, towards white men I think it's good to try to counter this
bias explicitly.

I should also think that "merit-based" criteria tend to reinforce the
existing unconscious bias.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] 1 week to Oct 1

[Guido van Rossum]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:11 AM Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

> I would suggest November 1st, so that nobody feels pressured.
>

You realize that then exactly the same will happen around that date, right?

Have you ever been on the organizing side of a conference? Both paper/talk
submissions and attendee registrations tend to happen immediately before
the deadline.

I propose not to move the deadline *unless* the PEP authors ask for an
extension on the eve of Oct 1st.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Fwd: [Python-ideas] JS’ governance model is worth inspecting

[Guido van Rossum]

Perhaps worth including in PEP 8002, the overview of other governance
models? (Though the process described here seems to be JS's equivalent of
our PEP process -- it doesn't say anything about how TC39 gets formed or
how non-technical decisions are handled.)

-- Forwarded message -
From: James Lu 
Date: Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 4:25 AM
Subject: [Python-ideas] JS’ governance model is worth inspecting
To: 


JS’ decisions are made by a body known as TC39, a fairly/very small group
of JS implementers.

First, JS has an easy and widely supported way to modify the language for
yourself: Babel. Babel transpires your JS to older JS, which is then run.

You can publish your language modification on the JS package manager, npm.

When a feature is being considered for inclusion in mainline JS, the
proposal must first gain a champion (represented by 🚀)that is a member of
TC-39. The guidelines say that the proposal’s features should already have
found use in the community. Then it moves through three stages, and the
champion must think the proposal is ready for the next stage before it can
move on. I’m hazy on what the criterion for each of the three stages is.
The fourth stage is approved.

I believe the global TC39 committee meets regularly in person, and at those
meetings, proposals can advance stages- these meetings are frequent enough
for the process to be fast and slow enough that people can have the time to
try out a feature before it becomes main line JS. Meeting notes are made
public.

The language and its future features are discussed on ESDiscuss.org, which
is surprisingly filled with quality and respectful discussion, largely from
experts in the JavaScript language.

I’m fairly hazy on the details, this is just the summary off the top of my
head.

—
I’m not saying this should be Python’s governance model, just to keep JS’
in mind.


___
Python-ideas mailing list
python-id...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] New core developers: Lisa Roach and Emily Morehouse-Valcarcel

[Guido van Rossum]

Congrats Emily and Lisa!  🎉 🐍 🎉 🐍 🎉 🐍

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 12:28 PM Raymond Hettinger <
raymond.hettin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> At the developer sprints this week, we collectively decided to grant core
> committer status to Emily and Lisa.
>
> Please join me in welcoming them to the team.
>
>
> Raymond
>
>
> ---
>
> Emily is the Director of Engineering at Cuttlesoft. She has previously
> attended two Language Summits and three core development sprints at PyCon.
> Since July, Emily has worked with Guido's guidance to implement PEP 572,
> Assignment Expressions.  She has also worked with Eric Snow to dive into
> CPython's runtime as well as subinterpreters.  This year at PyCon she gave
> a talk on Python's AST.  Here is her speaker bio
> https://us.pycon.org/2018/speaker/profile/283/ and a link to her talk
> video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhWvz4dK4ng
>
> Lisa has a background in network engineering and supported the Cisco sale
> engineer team to develop high quality Python product demonstrations.  Later
> she moved to the Facebook security team.  This is her third core developer
> sprint.  She and Guido are co-authors of PEP 526, Syntax for Variable
> Annotations. Last year, she worked with Eric Smith on PEP 557, Data
> Classes. Here is her speaker bio
> https://us.pycon.org/2018/speaker/profile/824/  and a link to her Pycon
> talks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKxbO4rRlpg and
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww1UsGZV8fQ
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Automerge bot deployed

[Guido van Rossum]

W00t! 🎂🍰🥧🍦🍮🍨🍧🍱

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 1:48 PM Mariatta Wijaya 
wrote:

> I've deployed the bot to automerge CPython pull request on the master
> branch.
>
> One benefit of this is you don't need to worry about replacing "#" into
> "GH-".
>
> To get the bot to automerge:
> - first edit the PR title and description, to be the commit message you
> want to use.
> - approve the PR (so it will have "awaiting merge" label)
> - apply the "🤖 automerge" label.
>
> It will wait for ALL status checks to pass, and merge the PR, replacing
> `#` with `GH-`
>
> I've made a demo video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/p85YtKKLNno
>
> See also previous discussions in
> https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/29
> https://github.com/python/bedevere/issues/14
>
> The previous way of merging PR still works. If you prefer merging the PR
> yourself,  just don't apply the "🤖 automerge" label.
>
> Mariatta
> ᐧ
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Transfer of power

[Guido van Rossum]

I’m still here, but I would like to be out of the debate and out of the
decision loop. I’m also still President of the PSF. But this is not for the
PSF to decide. You all are doing fine.

—Guido

On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 1:37 PM Brett Cannon  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Jul 15, 2018, 13:01 Thomas Wouters,  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM Yury Selivanov 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 10:07 PM Brett Cannon  wrote:
>>> [..]
>>> >> Ideally Guido would accept the PEP but I'm not sure if he is willing
>>> to. If that is indeed the case then how should this be done so that the
>>> document is universally accepted by all committers?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > In my ideal scenario, people write up PEPs proposing a governance
>>> model and Guido chooses one, making it PEP 2.
>>>
>>>
>>> That would be indeed the ideal scenario, legitimizing the whole thing.
>>>
>>
>> I don't know how to read these comments... Are you afraid Guido wouldn't
>> accept the proposed arrangement, or are people really doubting that Guido
>> is still involved in this decision? I've seen the latter idea expressed by
>> non-core-developers, but to me, Guido's use of "try" (twice) and "we" in
>> his original email makes it clear that he's still involved; he just doesn't
>> want to (or can't) dictate what he'll be replaced by. If people feel like
>> Guido's participation in this is in doubt, should we just ask him to
>> confirm one way or the other? (You don't have to wait for an answer to that
>> question, Guido :)
>>
>
>
> For me, Guido's participation just hasn't been agreed to by him yet 😉. I
> have viewed the retirement email as saying "you all have to decide how you
> want things to be as I'm not going to force something upon you" and not a
> mic drop of "I ain't participating". But Guido hasn't spoken up yet as I
> think he's still processing all of this. So I'm just hedging my phrasing in
> case he takes a pass.
>
> -Brett
>
>
>> --
>> Thomas Wouters 
>>
>> Hi! I'm an email virus! Think twice before sending your email to help me
>> spread!
>> ___
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Transfer of power

[Guido van Rossum]

Now that PEP 572 is done, I don't ever want to have to fight so hard for a
PEP and find that so many people despise my decisions.

I would like to remove myself entirely from the decision process. I'll
still be there for a while as an ordinary core dev, and I'll still be
available to mentor people -- possibly more available. But I'm basically
giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL, and you all will be on
your own.

After all that's eventually going to happen regardless -- there's still
that bus lurking around the corner, and I'm not getting younger... (I'll
spare you the list of medical issues.)

I am not going to appoint a successor.

So what are you all going to do? Create a democracy? Anarchy? A
dictatorship? A federation?

I'm not worried about the day to day decisions in the issue tracker or on
GitHub. Very rarely I get asked for an opinion, and usually it's not
actually important. So this can just be dealt with as it has always been.

The decisions that most matter are probably
- How are PEPs decided
- How are new core devs inducted

We may be able to write up processes for these things as PEPs (maybe those
PEPs will form a kind of constitution). But here's the catch. I'm going to
try and let you all (the current committers) figure it out for yourselves.

Note that there's still the CoC -- if you don't like that document your
only option might be to leave this group voluntarily. Perhaps there are
issues to decide like when should someone be kicked out (this could be
banning people from python-dev or python-ideas too, since those are also
covered by the CoC).

Finally. A reminder that the archives of this list are public (
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/) although membership
is closed (limited to core devs).

I'll still be here, but I'm trying to let you all figure something out for
yourselves. I'm tired, and need a very long break.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] A different way to focus discussions

[Guido van Rossum]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 11:22 AM, Mariatta Wijaya  wrote:

>
> For permalink in zulip, the link from "Copy link to conversation" seems to
> be sufficient.
> I've created a stream (https://python.zulipchat.com/
> #narrow/stream/130206-.23pep581/subject/hello/near/129486993) but it now
> has double ## 😅 and it seems I can't rename it to remove the extra "#"
>
> I've been waiting for the "excitement" surrounding PEP 572 to cool down
> before I want to merge PEP 581 (https://github.com/python/peps/pull/681/)
>

I'm posting the acceptance later today.


> I was hoping to bypass python-ideas since we've discussed at Python
> Language Summit :)  but if really needed I can start a thread there.
>

>From my reading of the summit, most people were okay with exploring this,
but many had specific issues they thought needed to be researched and
addressed in the PEP. And many core devs (the majority, actually, depending
on how you count :-) were not at the summit. I guess since it's mostly the
core devs that need to be convinced, announcing the Zulip channel here is
good enough, unless we hear from people for whom Zulip doesn't work at all.
So if you don't want to go to python-ideas, you have my blessing.


> Mariatta
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 10:38 AM Guido van Rossum 
> wrote:
>
>> I like the Zulip idea, though it'll be hard to get permalinks to past
>> discussions.
>>
>> Also, before going to python-dev it should probably be battle-tested in
>> python-ideas (PEP 572 wasn't ready for python-dev when it was moved there,
>> and I'm still recovering from the resulting brawl).
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Ethan Furman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/11/2018 09:25 AM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry to bring up this old topic.
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to decide how to handle discussions for PEP 581, and I'm
>>>> open to try out new things :)
>>>> Are we all still content with posting to python-dev?
>>>> I was thinking in addition to a thread in python-dev, I want to allow
>>>> discussions to take place in zulip, under a new
>>>> #pep581 stream.
>>>> Will that be ok?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think this will be a good test of Zulip, as well as incentive for
>>> folks to join.
>>>
>>> --
>>> ~Ethan~
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> python-committers mailing list
>>> python-committers@python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
>> ___
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] A different way to focus discussions

[Guido van Rossum]

I like the Zulip idea, though it'll be hard to get permalinks to past
discussions.

Also, before going to python-dev it should probably be battle-tested in
python-ideas (PEP 572 wasn't ready for python-dev when it was moved there,
and I'm still recovering from the resulting brawl).

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Ethan Furman  wrote:

> On 07/11/2018 09:25 AM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote:
>
> Sorry to bring up this old topic.
>>
>> I'm trying to decide how to handle discussions for PEP 581, and I'm open
>> to try out new things :)
>> Are we all still content with posting to python-dev?
>> I was thinking in addition to a thread in python-dev, I want to allow
>> discussions to take place in zulip, under a new
>> #pep581 stream.
>> Will that be ok?
>>
>
> I think this will be a good test of Zulip, as well as incentive for folks
> to join.
>
> --
> ~Ethan~
>
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Please be patient

[Guido van Rossum]

I have been overwhelmed by the amount of feedback I've received on PEP 572.
I can't possibly respond to everything, and some of the feedback just takes
time. E.g. I am planning to do a revision of the PEP for clarity, but this
will take some time, and I may not get to it until next week or the week
after. There are also several minor TODOs in the PEP that need to be
resolved.

I will sort it all out, just please be patient.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Introduction - Pablo Galindo Salgado

[Guido van Rossum]

Welcome Pablo! I am sure you will do great and I am looking forward to
hearing from you more.

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 8:30 AM Pablo Galindo Salgado 
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I would like to thank everyone for giving me their trust and allow me to
> be part of the team. Is really an honor
> to be part of such an outstanding family! I will put work and commitment
> in all areas of CPython maintenance
> and development and I will help as much as I can other core devs,
> contributors and everyone in the community.
> I will do so with extra care so nobody will be disappointed for this
> decision. I will fight as well to help making the
> Python community as inclusive and diverse as possible for everyone. Also, I
> will happily continue to work with Victor
> making sure the buildbots are happy and green.
>
> As a final note, I would like to thank Victor for his trust, encouragement
> and kindness, for all the time mentoring
> me and for vouching for me in this process.
>
> Thank you everyone for you support and for your work improving Python and
> the Python community!
>
> Regards from cloudy London,
> Pablo
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Results of Pablo's promotion votes: Pablo ispromoted as a core dev!

[Guido van Rossum]

I think we should give the mentors a choice in this. Victor has chosen to
do it this way for Pablo. I don't know who (if anyone) is mentoring Cheryl.
I think Eric Snow is mentoring Emily (I am too, but my mentoring is not
very hands-on, and we only chat once every 3 weeks at most.)

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 1:10 PM Steve Dower  wrote:

> Not trying to dispute the result (I’d have posted earlier if I was really
> concerned), but it sounds like you’ve signed up to mentor someone for three
> months. Under normal circumstances, the commit bit comes at the end of
> mentorship, not at the start.
>
>
>
> Should we promote other mentees as well? I know there are a few who have
> been deliberately pursuing this recognition (as they attended the language
> summit and/or were specifically requested to attend the core sprint by
> their mentors).
>
>
>
> Top-posted from my Windows 10 phone
>
>
>
> *From: *Victor Stinner 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, June 19, 2018 10:44
> *To: *python-committers 
> *Subject: *[python-committers] Results of Pablo's promotion votes: Pablo
> ispromoted as a core dev!
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> The result of the vote to to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core
> developer
>
> after one week is positive: I declare that Pablo is now a core developer,
>
> congrats! I will follow the usual process to actually make him a core dev,
>
> and ask him to write a short introduction email to this list.
>
>
>
> But I also noted that Pablo lacks experience to be fully autonomous on
> merging
>
> pull requests, so I also requires that Pablo will have to be strictly
> mentored
>
> by me for 3 months. By strict, I mean that Pablo will have to ask me to
>
> merge any pull request. This strict mentoring may be extended depending on
>
> Pablo's progress. As Eric Snow wrote, I vouch for Pablo: don't hesitate to
>
> blame me directly if anything goes wrong :-)
>
>
>
> Giving more responsibilities to Pablo is part of the learning process.
>
> Reviewing as a core developer is different than a review as a contributor:
> core
>
> developers are expected to actually merge a pull request once they approve
> the
>
> change. Merging a pull request is a big responsibility and an investment in
>
> the long-term, because the committer is expected to fix regressions and
> issues
>
> related to this change for next months, if not next years.
>
>
>
> Note: Cheryl Sabella has also been identified as an active contributor who
> may
>
> be promoted as well. I am already discussing with her about that for 1
> month,
>
> but last month, Cheryl chose to wait. I will keep you in touch ;-)
>
>
>
> Vote results.
>
>
>
> Promote (+1): 8 votes
>
>
>
> * Victor Stinner
>
> * Terry Reedy
>
> * Carol Willing
>
> * Gregory P. Smith ("+0.5")
>
> * Eric Snow
>
> * Brett Cannon
>
> * Nathaniel Smith
>
> * Antoine Pitrou ("+0.5")
>
>
>
> Wait (-1): 1 vote
>
>
>
> * Berker Peksağ
>
>
>
> Neutral (0): 1 vote
>
>
>
> * Serhiy Storchaka ("-0")
>
>
>
> Victor
>
> ___
>
> python-committers mailing list
>
> python-committers@python.org
>
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status

[Guido van Rossum]

I'm happy to see you do this. It'll be very interesting what kind of
responses you get. Do you know how to get the list of 130 people? (I don't,
but Mariatta probably has it already.)

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:51 PM Ethan Furman  wrote:

> On 06/19/2018 11:17 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> > On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 17:56 Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> >> I'd do it as follows. This basically makes withdrawal voluntary unless
>  >> they don't respond at all.
> >>
> >> 1. Make a list of people who've not shown any sign of activity (on the
>  >> b.p.o. or GitHub, as reviewer or committer) for at least one year.
>  >>
> >> 2. Email all of them, asking if they still want to be a core dev.
> Choices
>  >> could include
> >> Â  a. Yes
> >> Â  b. Keep the logo and b.p.o. access but disable GitHub key
> >> Â  c. Drop everything
>  >>
> >> 3. If someone doesn't respond despite repeated attempts (maybe using
>  >> different email addresses or social media) then after 4 weeks assume
>  >> they meant to answer (c). But if they write back later they can be
>  >> restored according to their preference (a, b, c), no questions asked.
> >
> > One point I want to make about this pull approach versus a push one is
> this
>  > is going to be a lot of work. :) For the "no GitHub username" situation
> on
>  > bugs.python.org <http://bugs.python.org> there are 80 people to reach
> out
>  > to. For people with commit rights who have not committed in the past
> year
>  > to CPython (because that's the best data point I have without writing
> custom
>  > code to find out who has commented on a PR recently), that would require
>  > reaching out to an additional 50 people. So we're looking at
> potentially up
>  > to 130 people to try and track down.
>
> I'm happy to do this.
>
> > We can make a complete list as people seem to want that and have it be
> active
>  > versus emeritus and list the year people got their commit rights.
>
> > At the end of that month whomever is still listed as emeritus we turn off
>  > their commit access and b.p.o extras. We announce this here, python-dev,
> > social media, etc. IOW this becomes more opt-in/push than opt-out/pull.
>
> The problem with this approach as it's one time -- as soon as someone
> fades away it's once again out of date.
>
> I'll take on the task of contacting the 130 people to get this started,
> then once a year somebody does the same thing
> with whichever handful of people have gone dormant that year.
>
> Sound fair?
>
> --
> ~Ethan~
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status

[Guido van Rossum]

I honestly have very little stake in this -- the minimum that I'd like to
see is that unused GitHub permissions be revoked to reduce the risk when a
dormant core dev is compromised. (Though if they contribute regularly to
*other* GitHub projects even that risk seems minimal.)

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 11:23 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 17:56 Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>
>> I'd do it as follows. This basically makes withdrawal voluntary unless
>> they don't respond at all.
>>
>> 1. Make a list of people who've not shown any sign of activity (on the
>> b.p.o. or GitHub, as reviewer or committer) for at least one year.
>> 2. Email all of them, asking if they still want to be a core dev. Choices
>> could include
>>   a. Yes
>>   b. Keep the logo and b.p.o. access but disable GitHub key
>>   c. Drop everything
>> 3. If someone doesn't respond despite repeated attempts (maybe using
>> different email addresses or social media) then after 4 weeks assume they
>> meant to answer (c). But if they write back later they can be restored
>> according to their preference (a, b, c), no questions asked.
>>
>
> One point I want to make about this pull approach versus a push one is
> this is going to be a lot of work. :) For the "no GitHub username"
> situation on bugs.python.org there are 80 people to reach out to. For
> people with commit rights who have not committed in the past year to
> CPython (because that's the best data point I have without writing custom
> code to find out who has commented on a PR recently), that would require
> reaching out to an additional 50 people. So we're looking at potentially up
> to 130 people to try and track down.
>
>
>>
>> If we currently have a list of core devs we should by default change
>> people's status to emeritus core dev when they choose (c). They may also
>> choose to be removed from such a list. But I don't know if we have a list.
>>
>
> We can make a complete list as people seem to want that and have it be
> active versus emeritus and list the year people got their commit rights.
>
> Here's a counter-proposal so we can figure out what middle ground we are
> all happy with. The developer log gets rewritten to be simpler to just be
> two lists: a chronological one of active core devs sorted by when they got
> commit privileges, and an alphabetized list of core devs who are now
> emeritus (listing their years of service to the project).
>
> The lists start with everyone who has committed to CPython, the devguide,
> or the peps repo in the past year as active. Everyone else is listed as
> emeritus. People are then given some window -- a month? -- to update
> themselves in those lists from emeritus to active. At the end of that month
> whomever is still listed as emeritus we turn off their commit access and
> b.p.o extras. We announce this here, python-dev, social media, etc. IOW
> this becomes more opt-in/push than opt-out/pull.
>
> -Brett
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:21 PM Chris Jerdonek 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What will be the threshold of activity? For example, if one hasn’t been
>>> committing due to time but occasionally comments on or opens b.p.o. issues
>>> or reviews pull requests, etc, would that mean the logo disappears? There
>>> is value in having the logo show up when commenting.
>>>
>>> —Chris
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:52 PM Paul Moore  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 18 June 2018 at 20:41, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>>>> > On 18.06.2018 21:07, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>>> >> Hm, unless I misunderstood, MAL's
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Being a core developer of Python is a status
>>>> >>
>>>> >> suggests that core devs might want to keep this status since it
>>>> confers
>>>> >> "status" on their person (it looks good on a resume for sure). And I
>>>> >> wouldn't want to make it any harder for a 3rd party to verify
>>>> someone's
>>>> >> claim to this status in their resume.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Marc-Andre, is that what you meant?
>>>> >
>>>> > I guess I wasn't clear, sorry.
>>>> >
>>>> > Perhaps the better term is "title" rather than "status". My
>>>> > understanding is that you become core developer and essentially
>>>> > keep this title forever.
>>>> >
>>>> > Wh

Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status

[Guido van Rossum]

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:12 PM Tal Einat  wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 3:54 AM, Guido van Rossum 
> wrote:
> >
> > If we currently have a list of core devs we should by default change
> people's status to emeritus core dev when they choose (c). They may also
> choose to be removed from such a list. But I don't know if we have a list.
>
> We have at least one list on the developers' guide:
> https://devguide.python.org/developers/
>
> It's more of a log of permissions granted and dropped. It also has a
> section titled "Permissions Dropped after Loss of Contact", currently
> with a single entry.
>

Hm, yeah, and it's incomplete (original developers like Jack are not listed
at all). The UX of the tree separate reverse-chronologically ordered lists
is also debatable: I'd have two lists, current core devs (with a record of
when and by whom they were given permissions, as the current list) and
emeritus core devs (with the same record, plus a record of when and why
their permission was dropped).

On the plus side, I spent a minute of nostalgia while perusing the older
entries...

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status

[Guido van Rossum]

I'd do it as follows. This basically makes withdrawal voluntary unless they
don't respond at all.

1. Make a list of people who've not shown any sign of activity (on the
b.p.o. or GitHub, as reviewer or committer) for at least one year.
2. Email all of them, asking if they still want to be a core dev. Choices
could include
  a. Yes
  b. Keep the logo and b.p.o. access but disable GitHub key
  c. Drop everything
3. If someone doesn't respond despite repeated attempts (maybe using
different email addresses or social media) then after 4 weeks assume they
meant to answer (c). But if they write back later they can be restored
according to their preference (a, b, c), no questions asked.

If we currently have a list of core devs we should by default change
people's status to emeritus core dev when they choose (c). They may also
choose to be removed from such a list. But I don't know if we have a list.


On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:21 PM Chris Jerdonek 
wrote:

> What will be the threshold of activity? For example, if one hasn’t been
> committing due to time but occasionally comments on or opens b.p.o. issues
> or reviews pull requests, etc, would that mean the logo disappears? There
> is value in having the logo show up when commenting.
>
> —Chris
>
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:52 PM Paul Moore  wrote:
>
>> On 18 June 2018 at 20:41, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>> > On 18.06.2018 21:07, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> >> Hm, unless I misunderstood, MAL's
>> >>
>> >>> Being a core developer of Python is a status
>> >>
>> >> suggests that core devs might want to keep this status since it confers
>> >> "status" on their person (it looks good on a resume for sure). And I
>> >> wouldn't want to make it any harder for a 3rd party to verify someone's
>> >> claim to this status in their resume.
>> >>
>> >> Marc-Andre, is that what you meant?
>> >
>> > I guess I wasn't clear, sorry.
>> >
>> > Perhaps the better term is "title" rather than "status". My
>> > understanding is that you become core developer and essentially
>> > keep this title forever.
>> >
>> > Whether you actually have your keys in the repo to push a PR
>> > or not is a different story and not really related to the "title"
>> > you earned.
>> >
>> > Listing the core developers somewhere on an official page
>> > would help with the verification you are referring to. At
>> > the moment, we don't seem to have this. It does make a difference
>> > on CVs and it's one of the few things we can give back to people
>> > when contributing code and time to Python.
>>
>> Just to add my thoughts here. I agree that "being a Python core
>> developer" is something people can be proud of (I know I am!), as well
>> as being good to put on a CV. It would be a shame to devalue that
>> pride by saying in effect that you're no longer a "real" core
>> developer if you don't keep contributing.
>>
>> So I'd very much like to distinguish the idea of "being a core
>> developer" from the administrative management of commit privileges.
>> The respect and gratitude of our peers is one of the few things it's
>> possible to get as a reward for open source contributions - let's be
>> generous with that (and with openly acknowledging it).
>>
>> Paul
>> ___
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status (was: Missing In Action)

[Guido van Rossum]

I propose "emeritus core dev". It's a word that conveys *extra* status.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 12:24 PM Jack Jansen  wrote:

> I know that this is the case for me.
>
> I wouldn’t _dream_ of committing anything (after 10 years or so) without
> first consulting with current core developers, etc. But formally being a
> Python core dev does give me status with my colleagues, students, children
> (well, one only), nephews and nieces, etc. and I have just enough vanity to
> kind of enjoy that. Just the other day a nephew took a selfie of the two of
> us and posted it to all friends, YES! :-)
>
> That said: I would fully understand if my status was changed to “dormant
> core dev” or “retired core dev” and I wouldn’t have any problems with that.
>
> Jack
>
>
> On  18-Jun-2018, at 21:07 , Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>
> Hm, unless I misunderstood, MAL's
>
> > Being a core developer of Python is a status
>
> suggests that core devs might want to keep this status since it confers
> "status" on their person (it looks good on a resume for sure). And I
> wouldn't want to make it any harder for a 3rd party to verify someone's
> claim to this status in their resume.
>
> Marc-Andre, is that what you meant?
>
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:59 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 06:43 Nick Coghlan  wrote:
>>
>>> On 18 June 2018 at 18:07, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>>> > Overall, I think that removing repo or bpo permissions should be
>>> > kept separate from the status itself. It would probably be wise
>>> > to send around reminders to all core devs who have access and
>>> > have not used their permissions every few year. The keys of those
>>> > who don't respond could then be disabled, without affecting
>>> > anything else; and, of course, easily be reenabled if needed,
>>> > without much process either.
>>>
>>> Aye, that's the key concept behind adding an explicit "Dormant" status
>>> for core developers - they're folks that are still trusted with core
>>> commit privileges if they choose to exercise them, but while they're
>>> not using their access, it's better to deactivate their credentials to
>>> reduce the potential for compromise.
>>>
>>> We'd add a note to the developer guide that gave instructions on how
>>> to request reactivation (likely just "Check the developer guide to
>>> ensure you're up to speed with any changes since you were last active,
>>> then past to python-committers requesting that your credentials be
>>> reactivated").
>>>
>>
>> Right, no one's role of having been a core dev will be wiped from
>> history, they just won't have the core dev logo next to their
>> bugs.python.org username in the issue tracker (which if they are so
>> dormant to have not added their GitHub username then  they probably don't
>> care about that anyway ;) . And flipping everything back on is a radio
>> button and a word in bugs.python.org if their triage rights are removed
>> and clicking on a button on a web page on GitHub if we clean up for dev
>> access on the repository.
>> ___
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
>
> --
>
> Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack
>
> If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman
>
>
>
>

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status (was: Missing In Action)

[Guido van Rossum]

Hm, unless I misunderstood, MAL's

> Being a core developer of Python is a status

suggests that core devs might want to keep this status since it confers
"status" on their person (it looks good on a resume for sure). And I
wouldn't want to make it any harder for a 3rd party to verify someone's
claim to this status in their resume.

Marc-Andre, is that what you meant?

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:59 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 06:43 Nick Coghlan  wrote:
>
>> On 18 June 2018 at 18:07, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>> > Overall, I think that removing repo or bpo permissions should be
>> > kept separate from the status itself. It would probably be wise
>> > to send around reminders to all core devs who have access and
>> > have not used their permissions every few year. The keys of those
>> > who don't respond could then be disabled, without affecting
>> > anything else; and, of course, easily be reenabled if needed,
>> > without much process either.
>>
>> Aye, that's the key concept behind adding an explicit "Dormant" status
>> for core developers - they're folks that are still trusted with core
>> commit privileges if they choose to exercise them, but while they're
>> not using their access, it's better to deactivate their credentials to
>> reduce the potential for compromise.
>>
>> We'd add a note to the developer guide that gave instructions on how
>> to request reactivation (likely just "Check the developer guide to
>> ensure you're up to speed with any changes since you were last active,
>> then past to python-committers requesting that your credentials be
>> reactivated").
>>
>
> Right, no one's role of having been a core dev will be wiped from history,
> they just won't have the core dev logo next to their bugs.python.org
> username in the issue tracker (which if they are so dormant to have not
> added their GitHub username then  they probably don't care about that
> anyway ;) . And flipping everything back on is a radio button and a word in
> bugs.python.org if their triage rights are removed and clicking on a
> button on a web page on GitHub if we clean up for dev access on the
> repository.
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Wrongly stopping merges discourages merging.

[Guido van Rossum]

+1. For example for mypy I use the "triangular" git setup even though as a
mypy core dev I could simply push my branch to the main repo.

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Donald Stufft  wrote:

> I’d also add that it is generally a good thing that people with power and
> a voice (e.g. the core devs) are having a similar experience that an
> external contributor would. This is our best line of defense against the
> external contributor experience degrading to a bad place. By having core
> devs share a similar experience, we can get feedback like the one about
> AppVeyor and try to improve things for everyone, instead of simply giving
> core devs a way to opt out of the pain.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jun 4, 2018, at 1:54 PM, Brett Cannon  wrote:
> >
> > Please realize that every time we have switched off CI, we have ended up
> with a broken branch, so it's a trade-off between these occasional hiccups
> or occasionally broken branches (and as Victor has pointed out, we are not
> always good as a group about making sure we notice when stuff breaks). Also
> note that because we now have branches that are almost always stable we
> have users who actually run from a checkout directly instead of waiting for
> a release (which also benefits us by helping to surface bugs earlier than
> e.g. an RC).
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] number of active core devs [was: Comments on moving issues to GitHub]

[Guido van Rossum]

Sounds to me like these are probably just past committers who are no longer
active for whatever personal reasons, and took no action when we moved to
GitHub. We basically never remove the commit bit from anyone except by
request, and I only recall seeing one such request, ever. Some of them
probably expect to come back in the future (like Neil Schemenauer did). I
recall only one person who said they refused to move to GitHub (but AFAIK
we didn't remove their commit bit from b.p.o), so I don't think that we can
blame these numbers on the move to GitHub.

It's definitely disturbing that we have so few active committers though --
it means that a small number of people take on a lot of the load (my
intuition tells me it's even more skewed than Mariatta's numbers reveal).
The best course of action seems to be to take measures to acquire new
committers (and contributors), not to try and reactivate old inactive
committers.

On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 5:42 PM, Donald Stufft  wrote:

> Is that a 50% reduction or is that just 50% of the people who could be
> active are?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jun 2, 2018, at 8:33 PM, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> >
> >> On 06/02/2018 12:46 PM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote:
> >>
> >> And perhaps this is to be discussed in a separate thread: even though
> in the b.p.o we appear to have 170 committers,
> >> really there are 90 core devs (people who has commit right to CPython
> on GitHub). and out of those 90, I think only
> >> about half are currently active (since the migration to GitHub).
> >
> > 50% reduction in activity?  Ouch.
> >
> > --
> > ~Ethan~
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list
> > python-committers@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] A different way to focus discussions

[Guido van Rossum]

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 2:50 PM, Victor Stinner  wrote:

> 2018-05-19 0:25 GMT+02:00 Guido van Rossum :
> > Discussing PEPs on python-dev and python-ideas is clearly not scalable
> any
> > more. (Even python-committers probably doesn't scale too well. :-)
> >
> > I wonder if it would make sense to require that for each PEP a new GitHub
> > *repo* be created whose contents would just be a draft PEP and whose
> issue
> > tracker and PR manager would be used to debate the PEP and propose
> specific
> > changes.
>
> Which problem do you want to solve? Reduce the number of emails per
> month on python-ideas and python-dev? Reduce the number of messages
> per PEP?
>

Both. The lists have gotten out of hand, and it's clear that many people
don't bother to read much of the discussion before posting an outraged
response to something they disagree with.


> If the number of messages per PEP is the problem, I don't see how
> replacing emails with GitHub would help. GitHub allows to add comments
> on:
>
> * commits
> * issues
> * pull requests
>
> Anyone can open new issues and new pull requests. It might be harder
> to follow discussions if they are occur at different parts of a single
> repository.
>

That's why I propose one repo per new PEP (or small cluster of related
PEPs). I agree that just having one PR per PEP in the peps repo would not
be an improvement.

The single repo puts all related discussion together (all issues in that
repo are about the same topic). This makes it easier for the PEP author to
read all traffic related to their PEP without forcing them to read all of
python-{ideas,dev}, while making it easier for others to create new threads
(no worries that the PEP author won't see your comment). It also lets the
PEP author effectively moderate the discussion (they can close issues and
even delete off-topic messages). It also makes it possible for interested
3rd parties to read all traffic related to a repo (just subscribe to the
repo).


> I guess that your motivation is to prevent another PEP 572 mess.
>
> IMHO the discussions on the PEP 572 became a mess because nobody
> wanted to moderate the discussion. I asked on python-committers how to
> calm down the discussion, but no action has been taken and the flow of
> emails didn't stop.
>

What action *can* you take on mailing lists like python-{ideas,dev}?


> A moderator can try to summarize the discussion or can ask to stop
> discussing the PEP until the PEP is updated. For the PEP 572, it seems
> like a few issues have been spotted in the PEP, but I don't recall an
> email saying "these points must be fixed in the PEP, please wait until
> the PEP is updated".
>
> Will it be simpler to moderate discussions on GitHub? Or do you expect
> that less people will go to GitHub, than on python-dev/python-ideas,
> to discuss?
>

GitHub has superior moderation abilities over our mailing lists, plus the
volume per topic (PEP or cluster of PEPs) is lower than the entire volume
of python-{ideas,dev}.

If it discourages drive-by comments by people not really invested in the
discussion but eager to show off their opinions, well, that's just an added
benefit.


> I like emails because it's plain text, it's easily readable on all
> devices, there are archives (controlled by Python) which are readable
> online, etc. I also like threads in emails. It's easy to see if I
> missed messages. On GitHub, there is no markers of unread messages,
> only notifications (well, there are also notifications with messages
> ;-)).
>

Maybe you should learn more about how to use GitHub? I find the experience
superior, and I routinely keep up with it on my phone.


> IMHO a PEP should summarize the most important discussed points.
> Otherwise, each time that someone who don't know the PEP will read it,
> the same discussion will restart from scratch. And I don't think that
> PEP 572 made that.
>

That's an unreasonable requirement when the discussion gets out of hand
like it got in that case. I hope to make it easier for the PEP author(s) to
keep up in part so they will have an easier time summarizing (and won't be
drawn into fruitless arguments as much by semi-troll comments).


> > Thoughts? (We can dogfood this proposal too, if there's interest. :-)
>
> Apart the PEP 572, I recalled that I have been annoyed by the fspath
> protocol before a PEP has been written. I also recall that the
> discussions stopped when I asked to wait until Brett (and someone
> else, sorry I forgot) writes a PEP. For other PEPs, I think that the
> volume of emails is acceptable.
>

That was a long time ago. Note that the cluster around PEP 550 was #2 on
your list, this was also fairly recen

Re: [python-committers] A different way to focus discussions

[Guido van Rossum]

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:58 AM, Barry Warsaw  wrote:

> [I think my other response got dropped, so apologies for any duplicates]
>
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > I wonder if it would make sense to require that for each PEP a new GitHub
> > *repo* be created whose contents would just be a draft PEP and whose
> issue
> > tracker and PR manager would be used to debate the PEP and propose
> specific
> > changes.
>
> I don't think I'd want to see tons of new PEP repos under the current
> `python` organization.  Maybe we should create a new organization for this
> experiment?
>

Hm, what's the cost of those extra repos? As long as they have consistent
names (e.g. pep-1234) they're easy to ignore right? Or does GitHub have a
quota of repos per org?


> Also, since non-core devs can and do create PEPs, the permission
> management will be different than the normal repos.  Clearly the PEP
> authors should be owners of the individual repos, but they should probably
> also decide how merges happen, and who else can contribute to their repo.
>
> It also means that PEP editors probably have an additional responsibility
> to create the PEP repo.
>

I was thinking of a workflow where the pep author initially creates the
repo under their own username and directs discussion there. Then when their
PEP is accepted (or rejected!) they can donate their repo to the python
org. I know such a thing is possible (we did it for the mypy and typeshed
repos).


> PEP 1's Discussions-To header can probably be co-opted for the URL to the
> GH repo.  Right now, that field is described as an email address, but it
> would be appropriate IMHO to also allow a URL for discussions.
>

Sure.

> Thoughts? (We can dogfood this proposal too, if there's interest. :-)
>
> I don't know whether this will help focus rambling PEP discussions.  I
> personally don't love the linearity of GH comments.  Threading is useful!
>

Ironically for me GitHub is less linear than email. It's easier to ask
people to open a new issue than it is to ask them to start a new thread. So
e.g. if a discussion starts about a survey of feature X in various
languages, when it veers off into a tutorial for a specific language that
could be a separate issue, and the meta-discussion on how the list of
languages should be selected could be made another issue.


> OTOH, it seems like a low-cost experiment to try so if there's a volunteer
> who wants to be the guinea pig, I'm fine with it.
>

I think Mark Shannon volunteered PEP 576 (though so far he hasn't created a
separate repo, he's just created a PR for the peps repo IIUC). I hope Nick
will also volunteer PEP 577 for this.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] A different way to focus discussions

[Guido van Rossum]

Yes, you can do that.

On Fri, May 18, 2018, 16:51 Ivan Levkivskyi  wrote:

> On 18 May 2018 at 19:46, Gregory P. Smith  wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm all for picking a victom^Wvolunteer PEP to try dogfood it on.
>>
>>
> Can few related PEPs share the same repository? For example, I want to
> start writing three PEPs about extensions to PEP 484 type system: literal
> types, final/const qualifier, and integer generics (simple dependent types).
> They all are tightly connected (but I don't want a single mega-PEP), can I
> put these three in the same repo?
>
> --
> Ivan
>
>
>
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] A different way to focus discussions

[Guido van Rossum]

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 3:58 PM, Ivan Levkivskyi 
wrote:

> I would like to clarify, what would be a typical time-line for a PEP? Will
> it look like this:
>
> 0. Preliminary discussions to determine whether an idea is PEP-worthy (can
> happen anywhere, python-ideas, SIGs, even offline)
> 1. A PEP number is requested by a champion and assigned by a PEP editor
> (in python/peps repo)
>

I expect some proposals to get stuck before they're ever in a state
acceptable even as draft PEP, so I'd like to put off requesting a PEP
number as long as possible.


> 2. PEP is drafted and discussed by a narrow circle of interested
> participants (happens in a separate repo)
> 3. When PEP is ready and polished make a PR to python/peps repo, and post
> it to python-dev to get feedback (if any) from a wider audience
>

I expect there to be a long trajectory where the PEP does exist in the peps
repo but should still be discussed in its own repo. Mentions on python-dev
should be limited to the occasional link to the PEP's own repo, with
strongly worded requests to go to that repo to provide feedback.


> 4. If reasonable objections appear at this step, go to step 2
>

The process should be clear that objections posted to python-dev will be
ignored -- only objections posted to the PEP's own repo's issue tracker
will be considered.


> 5. Repeat steps 2-4 until accepted/rejected/deferred
>
> Is this what you propose? Or you want to completely avoid posting to
> python-dev?
>

I want to completely avoid discussion on python-dev. This probably means we
should never post the full text of the PEP there. (We may have to amend PEP
1 to support this.)

There are probably some other parts needed too, e.g. guidelines as to when
a PEP is considered ripe for copying to the peps repo (and scripts/bots to
make repeated copies easy -- e.g. there could be a bot that copies a PEP
from that PEP's own repo to the peps repo each time a commit is made to the
master branch in its own repo). There could also be guidelines to ensure a
PEP is in a fairly non-controversial state (probably using the IETF's motto
"rough consensus and working code") before being considered for approval.
There's definitely some time when a PEP has an assigned number but is still
controversial -- during that state debate on python-dev should be strictly
redirected to the PEP's own repo.

For some PEPs it may make sense to assign a senior reviewer who decides
what's considered non-controversial.

We can borrow more from the IETF process for RFCs:
https://www.rfc-editor.org/pubprocess/

--Guido

PS. Carol: Jupyter's process looks great! I just don't have the guts to
propose any serious changes to the physical logistics of publishing PEPs,
since changes to the structure of the peps repo are so hard. We still
haven't converted all PEPs to .rst format, despite efforts by Mariatta and
others, and attempts to move all PEPs to a subdirectory have also failed,
due to perpetual lack of resources to complete the task (and e.g. the need
to update scripts on python.org whenever the peps repo structure changes).



>
> --
> Ivan
>
>
>
> On 18 May 2018 at 18:25, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>
>> Discussing PEPs on python-dev and python-ideas is clearly not scalable
>> any more. (Even python-committers probably doesn't scale too well. :-)
>>
>> I wonder if it would make sense to require that for each PEP a new GitHub
>> *repo* be created whose contents would just be a draft PEP and whose issue
>> tracker and PR manager would be used to debate the PEP and propose specific
>> changes.
>>
>> This way the discussion is still public: when the PEP-specific repo is
>> created the author(s) can notify python-ideas, and when they are closer to
>> submitting they can notify python-dev, but the discussion doesn't attract
>> uninformed outsiders as much as python-{dev,ideas} discussions do, and it's
>> much easier for outsiders who want to learn more about the proposal to find
>> all relevant discussion.
>>
>> PEP authors may also choose to use a different repo hosting site, e.g.
>> Bitbucket or GitLab. We can provide a script that allows checking the
>> formatting of the PEP easily (basically pep2html.py from the peps repo).
>>
>> Using a separate repo per PEP has the advantage that people interested in
>> a topic can subscribe to all traffic in that repo -- if we were to use the
>> tracker of the peps repo you would have to subscribe to all peps traffic.
>>
>> Thoughts? (We can dogfood this proposal too, if there's interest. :-)
>>
>> --
>> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
>>
>> ___
>> python-commi

[python-committers] A different way to focus discussions

[Guido van Rossum]

Discussing PEPs on python-dev and python-ideas is clearly not scalable any
more. (Even python-committers probably doesn't scale too well. :-)

I wonder if it would make sense to require that for each PEP a new GitHub
*repo* be created whose contents would just be a draft PEP and whose issue
tracker and PR manager would be used to debate the PEP and propose specific
changes.

This way the discussion is still public: when the PEP-specific repo is
created the author(s) can notify python-ideas, and when they are closer to
submitting they can notify python-dev, but the discussion doesn't attract
uninformed outsiders as much as python-{dev,ideas} discussions do, and it's
much easier for outsiders who want to learn more about the proposal to find
all relevant discussion.

PEP authors may also choose to use a different repo hosting site, e.g.
Bitbucket or GitLab. We can provide a script that allows checking the
formatting of the PEP easily (basically pep2html.py from the peps repo).

Using a separate repo per PEP has the advantage that people interested in a
topic can subscribe to all traffic in that repo -- if we were to use the
tracker of the peps repo you would have to subscribe to all peps traffic.

Thoughts? (We can dogfood this proposal too, if there's interest. :-)

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Proposing Mark Shannon to be a core developer

[Guido van Rossum]

Thanks Mariatta!

It would also be nice if we gave new committers a task along the lines of
"mentor one woman or other person of diversity through their first
non-trivial PR". (If the new committer is not comfortable actually merging
the PR they can ask a more experienced core dev to do that -- after all new
core devs are supposed to be mentored themselves by a more experienced core
dev.)

Even nicer would be if *every* core dev made a commitment to "sponsor" at
least one person of diversity. I understand not everyone has the time. But
perhaps *some* core devs will volunteer! Increasing the core's diversity is
a very important goal to ensure the future health of Python.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Mariatta Wijaya 
wrote:

> Part of the new core dev initiation should be watching this talk, titled
> "What is a Python Core Developer?" https://youtu.be/hhj7eb6TrtI
>
> On Tue, May 15, 2018, 11:35 AM Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>
>> Let's stop the email barrage, Mark is in. Can someone tell Mark what to
>> do?
>>
>>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] AppVeyor and Travis-CI

[Guido van Rossum]

IIUC you have to close and reopen the PR.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Eric V. Smith  wrote:

> Thanks. You mean close and re-open the bpo issue?
>
> In the past I saw a Travis "re-run" button, but now I don't. I expected to
> see it on the Travis page, but last night I only saw a "More options" menu
> and no "re-run". The next time something fails I'll look again.
>
> On 5/15/18 11:23 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>
>> You can always close and then open an issue to re-trigger CI. As for
>> Travis specifically, you  should have the proper permissions to forcibly
>> re-run the builds.
>>
>> On Mon, 14 May 2018 at 21:50 Eric V. Smith > <mailto:e...@trueblade.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I accidentally checked in some test files, and they got backported to
>> 3.7. I pushed a commit to delete them, and it was committed to master.
>>
>> But in the 3.7 backport, something has gone wrong with AppVeyor and
>> Travis-CI.
>>
>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/6844
>>
>> AppVeyor says "Expected — Waiting for status to be reported".
>> There's no
>> obvious way to get it to actually report the status, or to restart.
>> There is no "Details" button listed on the PR page.
>>
>> For Travis-CI, Miss Isslington sent me an email that says "Backport
>> status check is done, and it's a failure ❌ ." The Travis-CI log file
>> ends with a timeout:
>>
>> 
>> ==
>> FAIL: test_stdin_broken_pipe
>> (test.test_asyncio.test_subprocess.SubprocessSafeWatcherTests)
>> 
>> --
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>File
>> "/home/travis/build/python/cpython/Lib/test/test_asyncio/tes
>> t_subprocess.py",
>>
>> line 214, in test_stdin_broken_pipe
>>  self.loop.run_until_complete, coro)
>> AssertionError: (, > 'ConnectionResetError'>) not raised by run_until_complete
>> 
>> --
>>
>> I'm sure this is all due to the heavy load the systems are under. I
>> can't find a way to kick both of these off again. I couldn't find
>> anything in the devguide, but if I missed it please let me know.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Eric
>> ___
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers@python.org <mailto:python-committers@python.org>
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Proposing Mark Shannon to be a core developer

[Guido van Rossum]

Let's stop the email barrage, Mark is in. Can someone tell Mark what to do?

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 12:27 AM, Victor Stinner 
wrote:

> 2018-05-14 16:41 GMT-04:00 Larry Hastings :
> > Dr. Mark Shannon contributed the "key sharing dictionary" to Python,
> writing
> > both the PEP and the implementation.  This shipped in Python 3.3 and was
> > listed as one of the top features of that release as according to the
> > "What's New?" document.
> >
> > We've asked Mark in the past if he'd be interested in becoming a core
> > developer--and he actually said no.  At the time he said he didn't like
> our
> > antiquated workflow.  Now that we've switched to the git-based core dev
> > workflow, this objection is gone, and he's now interested in accepting
> the
> > commit bit and the responsibilities that it entails.
> >
> > I suspect you, my colleagues in CPython core development, will be
> surprised
> > at the current state of affairs.  I'm expecting a load of "you mean Mark
> > *isn't* a core developer yet?" replies.
>
> Wait. Mark is already a core dev, right? I don't understand your email :-)
>
> +1, obvisouly.
>
> Victor
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Proposing Mark Shannon to be a core developer

[Guido van Rossum]

+2

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Eric V. Smith  wrote:

> +1
>
> Eric
>
> On 5/14/18 4:41 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Mark Shannon contributed the "key sharing dictionary" to Python,
>> writing both the PEP and the implementation.  This shipped in Python 3.3
>> and was listed as one of the top features of that release as according
>> to the "What's New?" document.
>>
>> We've asked Mark in the past if he'd be interested in becoming a core
>> developer--and he actually said no.  At the time he said he didn't like
>> our antiquated workflow.  Now that we've switched to the git-based core
>> dev workflow, this objection is gone, and he's now interested in
>> accepting the commit bit and the responsibilities that it entails.
>>
>> I suspect you, my colleagues in CPython core development, will be
>> surprised at the current state of affairs.  I'm expecting a load of "you
>> mean Mark *isn't* a core developer yet?" replies.
>>
>>
>> Submitted for your consideration,
>>
>>
>> //arry/
>>
>>
>> ___
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] PEP 572 at the Language Summit next week

[Guido van Rossum]

It looks like I am going to try and present a balanced summary and then
open the floor for discussion. I also want to use the opportunity to start
brainstorming about a better way to make decisions.

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Victor Stinner  wrote:

> Sorry, I choose to reply to python-committers rather than python-dev
> because I have been annoyed by the PEP 572 traffic on python-dev.
>
> 2018-04-29 22:45 GMT+02:00 Larry Hastings :
> > In case it helps, we're planning on presentations on / a discussion of
> PEP
> > 572 at the 2018 Python Language Summit next Wednesday.  (I'm assuming it
> > won't be pronounced upon before then--after all, what's the rush?)
> > Naturally the discussion isn't going to escape the room until it gets
> > reported on by Jake Edge, but delegates at the Summit will hopefully
> emerge
> > well-informed and comfortable with the result of the discussion.
>
> Who is going to lead this discussion? Will we have at least one
> developer in favor of the PEP to give a summary of the advantages? I
> would like to make sure that we can get a fair summary of the past PEP
> discussion.
>
> I'm not worried for the "dislike" part which may be correctly represented
> :-D
>
> Note: I just got a notice of a strike at Air France next Tuesday, the
> day I'm flighting to the US, and my 3rd and last flight of this trip
> is cancelled. Oh oh.
>
> Victor
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] How to calm down the discussion on the PEP 572?

[Guido van Rossum]

The way to calm discussions is to stop responding.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:02 AM, Victor Stinner  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Since 2 or 3 years, I saw that that discussions on some PEPs get more
> and more emails every year. Maybe because Python became more popular?
> Openness is a Python quality, but shortly, the amount of emails
> becomes an issue, at least for the author of the PEP.
>
> I counted the number of emails per day of the python-dev mailing list,
> using mbox archives available at:
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/
>
> My script:
> https://github.com/vstinner/misc/blob/master/python/parse_mailman_mbox.py
>
> In March, python-dev got 246 emails with a maximum of 31 the 2018-03-21.
>
> In April, the traffic was between 3 and 27 emails per day until the
> start of the chaos:
>
> ...
> 2018-04-17: 27
> 2018-04-18: 20
> 2018-04-19: 11
> 2018-04-20: 36
> 2018-04-21: 36
> 2018-04-22: 31
> 2018-04-23: 32
> 2018-04-24: 72
> 2018-04-25: 76
> 2018-04-26: 23
> 2018-04-27: 10
>
> Current maximum: 76 emails received at 2018-04-25!?
>
> I'm not sure that it's still possible to read carefully all emails to
> python-dev and write constructive replies. It seems like people are
> answering immediately, without reading past emails nor reading other
> emails sent the same day.
>
> I'm also concerned by the general mood of the discussion. Are we still
> discussing arguments in polite way?
>
> How can we calm down the discussion, and ask people to don't reply
> immediately but instead try to listen to the other people?
>
> IHMO everybody had enough time to give their very important opinion (I
> wrote my own very important opinion, don't worry!) on python-ideas and
> then on python-dev. We are now turning around.
>
> Can we give Chris more time to update his PEP? In my experience, the
> PEP is the most constructive tool to drive a discussion.
>
> I chose to write to python-committers because I now fear that I would
> get too many replies on python-dev ...
>
> Victor
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Issues with hundreds of commits being opened and closed -- what's going on?

[Guido van Rossum]

Ah. Makes sense. UI design is hard... Thanks!

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 4:35 PM, Zachary Ware 
wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 6:21 PM, Guido van Rossum 
> wrote:
> > Occasionally I receive a sequence of emails from GitHub where a PR is
> > requesting my review by some user, the-knights-who-say-ni responds with a
> > CLA request, and then Bedevere closes it, without comment. Latest
> example:
> > https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/5693
> >
> > This seems to be some kind of user error -- the GitHub description is
> > typically something like " wants to merge 398 commits into master
> from
> > 3.5". But this happens so frequently I would like to prevent this user
> error
> > from happening in the first place.
> >
> > Does anyone understand what these users are doing that causes such PRs
> to be
> > created?
>
> This is because GitHub allows anyone logged into the site to click the
> "New pull request" button on the branches page
> (https://github.com/python/cpython/branches).  I reported this to
> GitHub several months ago and the last word was that they were
> "discussing it internally"; I'll bug them about it again.
>
> --
> Zach
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[python-committers] Issues with hundreds of commits being opened and closed -- what's going on?

[Guido van Rossum]

Occasionally I receive a sequence of emails from GitHub where a PR is
requesting my review by some user, the-knights-who-say-ni responds with a
CLA request, and then Bedevere closes it, without comment. Latest example:
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/5693

This seems to be some kind of user error -- the GitHub description is
typically something like " wants to merge 398 commits into master
from 3.5". But this happens so frequently I would like to prevent this user
error from happening in the first place.

Does anyone understand what these users are doing that causes such PRs to
be created?

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Welcome the 3.8 and 3.9 Release Manager - Łukasz Langa!

[Guido van Rossum]

Cool trick! Works on Sierra too. I guess it's all part of Apple's drive to
merge iOS and OS X...

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Barry Warsaw  wrote:

> On Jan 27, 2018, at 17:04, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>
>
> Hardly a surprising choice! Congrats, Łukasz. (And never forget that at
> every Mac OS X upgrade I have to install the extended keyboard just so I
> can type that darn Ł. :-)
>
>
> Heh, I *just* learned that, at least on macOS High Sierra (and probably
> going back several releases), on a US keyboard you can press and hold the
> ‘L’ (cap-L) key.  A little popup will appear like the attached image (if
> this doesn’t get stripped by Mailman).  Hit ‘1’ and the slashy-L will get
> entered: Ł.
>
> Cheers
> -Barry
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Welcome the 3.8 and 3.9 Release Manager - Łukasz Langa!

[Guido van Rossum]

Hardly a surprising choice! Congrats, Łukasz. (And never forget that at
every Mac OS X upgrade I have to install the extended keyboard just so I
can type that darn Ł. :-)

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 1:07 PM, Eric V. Smith  wrote:

> That's awesome! A great choice. Congrats, Łukasz.
>
> Eric.
>
>
> On 1/27/2018 4:02 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>> As Ned just announced, Python 3.7 is very soon to enter beta 1 and thus
>> feature freeze.  I think we can all give Ned a huge round of applause for
>> his amazing work as Release Manager for Python 3.6 and 3.7.  Let’s also
>> give him all the support he needs to make 3.7 the best version yet.
>>
>> As is tradition, Python release managers serve for two consecutive
>> releases, and so with the 3.7 release branch about to be made, it’s time to
>> announce our release manager for Python 3.8 and 3.9.
>>
>> By unanimous and enthusiastic consent from the Python Secret Underground
>> (PSU, which emphatically does not exist), the Python Cabal of Former and
>> Current Release Managers, Cardinal Ximénez, and of course the BDFL, please
>> welcome your next release manager…
>>
>> Łukasz Langa!
>>
>> And also, happy 24th anniversary to Guido’s Python 1.0.0
>> announcement[1].  It’s been a fun and incredible ride, and I firmly believe
>> that Python’s best days are ahead of us.
>>
>> Enjoy,
>> -Barry
>>
>> [1] https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!original/comp.lang.
>> misc/_QUzdEGFwCo/KIFdu0-Dv7sJ
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>>
> ___________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Let's give commit privileges to Nathaniel J. Smith

[Guido van Rossum]

Indeed!

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 3:43 PM, Carol Willing  wrote:

> +1, Nathaniel would be a nice addition.
>
> > On Jan 24, 2018, at 3:32 PM, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
> >
> >
> > +1 from me as well.
> >
> >
> > Le 25/01/2018 à 00:23, Yury Selivanov a écrit :
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I want to propose granting commit privileges to Nathaniel J. Smith.
> >> He's interested in the idea of becoming a core developer, and given
> >> the quality of his contributionsI think he won't need any extensive
> >> mentoring (although I'll be happy to assist Nathaniel in the
> >> beginning).
> >>
> >> Nathaniel has been a prolific PEP author:
> >>
> >> * Single-authored: PEP 465 Matrix Multiplication (accepted), PEP 521,
> >> PEP 533, PEP 568;
> >>
> >> * Co-authored: PEP 513 (active), PEP 516, PEP 517 (accepted), PEP 518
> >> (accepted), PEP 522.
> >>
> >> * Many PEPs mention his name in acknowledgements.
> >>
> >> He also has a few sufficiently complex patches committed, some of
> >> which touch complex areas like ceval loop and signals handling:
> >>
> >> * bpo-32591: Add native coroutine origin tracking
> >> * bpo-30579: Allow TracebackType creation and tb_next mutation from
> Python
> >> * bpo-30050: Allow disabling full buffer warnings in
> signal.set_wakeup_fd
> >> * bpo-30039: Don't run signal handlers while resuming a yield from stack
> >> * bpo-30038: fix race condition in signal delivery + wakeup fd
> >> * etc
> >>
> >> He's been very active on python-dev, python-ideas, bugs.python.org and
> >> github. Here's an example where Nathaniel's research helped us to make
> >> a right decision to fix a broken socket object API:
> >> https://bugs.python.org/msg308450.
> >>
> >> He helped me quite a bit with the design of PEP 550 and PEP 567, and
> >> he's doing some interesting work in the async/await area.
> >>
> >> So... let's make it happen? :)
> >>
> >> Yury
> >> ___
> >> python-committers mailing list
> >> python-committers@python.org
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> >> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >>
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list
> > python-committers@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Security: please enable 2-factor authentication on GitHub and your email

[Guido van Rossum]

Whatever happens I don't want to lose core devs over this. (That said I
have 2fa on myself -- Dropbox pretty requires this -- and it's painless for
me. But I can totally understand that it's not the same experience for
everyone.)

On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Donald Stufft  wrote:

>
> On Dec 11, 2017, at 2:52 PM, R. David Murray 
> wrote:
>
> If 2fa is required for contribution to CPython, I'll stop
> contributing.
>
>
> I’m curious why? I have it on and 99% of the time you don’t even notice
> because you’re already logged into GitHub and pushes/pulls don’t require it.
>
> ___
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Adding Ivan Levkivskyi as a core committer

[Guido van Rossum]

I think I figured it out -- I invited him to the python org on GitHub.
Anything else?

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 8:37 AM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> OK, let's make it so. It's been a long time since I initiated a new
> committer -- what has to happen next? I just flipped his committer bit on
> bpo, is there anything else that needs to happen?
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Yury Selivanov 
> wrote:
>
>> +1 from me.  I first had an idea to give Ivan commit privileges when I
>> was merging his PEP 526 implementation, so I think it's long overdue.
>>
>> Yury
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 8:00 PM, Guido van Rossum 
>> wrote:
>> > I'd like to propose Ivan Levkivskyi as a new core committer. He's
>> > (re-)written most of the typing.py module and will do so again for
>> Python
>> > 3.7, he's the sole or primary author on several PEPs (526, 544, 560,
>> 562),
>> > is co-author on several more (483, 561) and has been acknowledged in yet
>> > others (557, 563).
>> >
>> > He is responsible for at least 16 commits in master.
>> >
>> > I have worked with him for a long time on typing.py and on mypy (where
>> he is
>> > a core dev) and I can vouch for him completely.
>> >
>> > --
>> > --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
>> >
>> > ___________
>> > python-committers mailing list
>> > python-committers@python.org
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

Re: [python-committers] Adding Ivan Levkivskyi as a core committer

[Guido van Rossum]

OK, let's make it so. It's been a long time since I initiated a new
committer -- what has to happen next? I just flipped his committer bit on
bpo, is there anything else that needs to happen?

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Yury Selivanov 
wrote:

> +1 from me.  I first had an idea to give Ivan commit privileges when I
> was merging his PEP 526 implementation, so I think it's long overdue.
>
> Yury
>
> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 8:00 PM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> > I'd like to propose Ivan Levkivskyi as a new core committer. He's
> > (re-)written most of the typing.py module and will do so again for Python
> > 3.7, he's the sole or primary author on several PEPs (526, 544, 560,
> 562),
> > is co-author on several more (483, 561) and has been acknowledged in yet
> > others (557, 563).
> >
> > He is responsible for at least 16 commits in master.
> >
> > I have worked with him for a long time on typing.py and on mypy (where
> he is
> > a core dev) and I can vouch for him completely.
> >
> > --
> > --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> >
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list
> > python-committers@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/