Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
Brett Cannon wrote: > Why the entire 'peps' directory and not just the trunk like with > 'python'? It looks like no tags or branches have ever been created > for the PEPs and thus are not really needed. Right. > I am also curious as to what you would have me check out for the > sandbox; whole directory or just the trunk? You would usually only check out the trunk (unless you want to work on a branch, of course). Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
On Thursday 27 October 2005 23:03, Brett Cannon wrote: > I guess, but I just don't like wikis personally so I have no > inclination to make the conversion. If someone wants to make the > conversion over to the wiki and keep it up that's fine, but I have no > problem keeping the dev FAQ updated like I have for CVS in the past. And I'm sure we all appreciate your efforts! I certainly do. Regarding using the wiki... I have mixed feelings. Wikis are really, really good for some things. Anything that's "how-to" based on technology (how to use SVN, CVS, etc.) seems like a reasonable candidate, because we get the advantages of peer review. For things that describe policy, I don't think that's so great. For policy (how to use SVN for Python development, because we have certain rules), I think we want to maintain strict editorial control. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] PEP 352: Required Superclass for Exceptions
Well, I am at it again, but this time Guido is a co-conspirator. We wrote a PEP that introduces BaseException and moves KeyboardInterrupt and SystemExit. Even if you followed the discussion for PEP 348 you should read the PEP since I am sure there will be something that someone doesn't like, such as the transition plan or how I didn't use British English throughout. =) Anyway, as soon as the cron job posts the PEP to the web site (already checked into the new svn repository) have a read and start expounding about how wonderful it is and that there is no qualms with it whatsoever. =) -Brett ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
On 10/27/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Brett> I have started a svn section in the dev FAQ > Brett> (http://www.python.org/dev/devfaq.html) pertaining to checking > Brett> out a project from the repository and other stuff discussed so > Brett> far. If something is not clear or people feel a step is missing, > Brett> let me know. > > We're starting to look at how much information we can push over to the Wiki. > Any pages where multiple people might contribute, especially if they are not > the typical website maintainers, seems to me like good Wiki candidates to > me. That goes double for anything FAQ-ish. > I guess, but I just don't like wikis personally so I have no inclination to make the conversion. If someone wants to make the conversion over to the wiki and keep it up that's fine, but I have no problem keeping the dev FAQ updated like I have for CVS in the past. -Brett ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
Brett> I have started a svn section in the dev FAQ Brett> (http://www.python.org/dev/devfaq.html) pertaining to checking Brett> out a project from the repository and other stuff discussed so Brett> far. If something is not clear or people feel a step is missing, Brett> let me know. We're starting to look at how much information we can push over to the Wiki. Any pages where multiple people might contribute, especially if they are not the typical website maintainers, seems to me like good Wiki candidates to me. That goes double for anything FAQ-ish. Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Help with inotify
Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Oct 27, 2005, at 4:58 PM, Neal Becker wrote: > >> Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >> >>> >>> On Oct 27, 2005, at 4:32 PM, Neal Becker wrote: >>> >>> "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > I see. Python is making up the EISDIR, looking at the stat result. > In Objects/fileobject.c:dircheck generates the EISDIR error, which > apparently comes from posix_fdopen, PyFile_FromFile, > fill_file_fields. > > Python simply does not support file objects which stat(2) as > directories. > > > OK, does python have a C API that would allow me to create a python file object from my C (C++) code? Then instead of using python's fdopen I could just do it myself. >>> >>> Why do you need a file object for something that is not a file >>> anyway? select.select doesn't require file objects for example, just >>> objects that have a fileno() method. >>> >>> >> Yes, that's a good point - the reason is I didn't want to restrict the >> interface to only work with select. Maybe I should rethink the >> interface. > > Well what would the interface do if you had a file object? Are you > supposed to be able to read/write/seek/tell/etc.? I don't understand > why you're trying to do what you're doing. select.select was just an > example, select.poll's register/unregister takes any object with a > fileno also. > Yes, you are supposed to be able to read and get information. However, I have implemented fileno for it, so you can use select.select on it if you just want to wait for something to happen - which is probably all that's really needed. I also implemented select as a method of my inotify object, in case you prefer that. Here's an excerpt from documentation/filesystems/inotify.txt: - Events are provided in the form of an inotify_event structure that is read(2) from a given inotify instance. The filename is of dynamic length and follows the struct. It is of size len. The filename is padded with null bytes to ensure proper alignment. This padding is reflected in len. You can slurp multiple events by passing a large buffer, for example size_t len = read (fd, buf, BUF_LEN); Where "buf" is a pointer to an array of "inotify_event" structures at least BUF_LEN bytes in size. The above example will return as many events as are available and fit in BUF_LEN. Each inotify instance fd is also select()- and poll()-able. - ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
[Brett Cannon] > I have started a svn section in the dev FAQ > (http://www.python.org/dev/devfaq.html) pertaining to checking out a > project from the repository and other stuff discussed so far. If > something is not clear or people feel a step is missing, let me know. Thanks, Brett! I'm just starting this trek, in slow motion, and that was a real help ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
I have started a svn section in the dev FAQ (http://www.python.org/dev/devfaq.html) pertaining to checking out a project from the repository and other stuff discussed so far. If something is not clear or people feel a step is missing, let me know. I will remove the CVS section once Martin has tossed the CVS repository on SF. -Brett On 10/27/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The Python source code repository is now converted to subversion; > please feel free to start checking out new sandboxes. For a few > days, this installation probably still needs to be considered in > testing. If there are no serious problems found by next Monday, > I would consider conversion of the data complete. The CVS repository > will be kept available read-only for a while longer, so you can > easily forward any patches you may have. > > Most of you are probably interested in checking out one of these > folders: > > svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/trunk > svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/branches/release24-maint > svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/peps > > The anonymous read-only equivalents of these are > > http://svn.python.org/projects/python/trunk > http://svn.python.org/projects/python/branches/release24-maint > http://svn.python.org/projects/peps > > As mentioned before, in addition to "plain" http/WebDAV, > viewcvs is available at > > http://svn.python.org/view/ > > There are some more things left to be done, such as updating > the developer documentation. I'll start working on that soon, > but contributions are welcome. > > Regards, > Martin > > > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brett%40python.org > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).
Josiah Carlson: > According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet), > various languages have adopted a transliteration of their language > and/or former alphabets into latin. They don't purport to know all of > the reasons why, and I'm not going to speculate. I used to work on software written by Japanese and English speakers at Fujitsu with most developers being Japanese. The rules were that comments could be in Japanese but identifiers were only allowed to contain ASCII characters. Most variable names were poorly chosen with s, p, q, fla (boolean=flag) and flafla being popular. When I asked some Japanese coders why they didn't use Japanese words expressed in ASCII (Romaji), their response was that it was a really weird idea. This is anecdotal but it appears to me that transliterations are not commonly used apart from learning languages and some minimal help for foreigners such as including transliterated names on railway station name boards. Neil ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Help with inotify
"Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > I see. Python is making up the EISDIR, looking at the stat result. > In Objects/fileobject.c:dircheck generates the EISDIR error, which > apparently comes from posix_fdopen, PyFile_FromFile, > fill_file_fields. > > Python simply does not support file objects which stat(2) as directories. > OK, does python have a C API that would allow me to create a python file object from my C (C++) code? Then instead of using python's fdopen I could just do it myself. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Help with inotify
On Oct 27, 2005, at 4:58 PM, Neal Becker wrote: > Bob Ippolito wrote: > > >> >> On Oct 27, 2005, at 4:32 PM, Neal Becker wrote: >> >> >>> "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >>> >>> I see. Python is making up the EISDIR, looking at the stat result. In Objects/fileobject.c:dircheck generates the EISDIR error, which apparently comes from posix_fdopen, PyFile_FromFile, fill_file_fields. Python simply does not support file objects which stat(2) as directories. >>> >>> OK, does python have a C API that would allow me to create a python >>> file >>> object from my C (C++) code? Then instead of using python's fdopen >>> I could >>> just do it myself. >>> >> >> Why do you need a file object for something that is not a file >> anyway? select.select doesn't require file objects for example, just >> objects that have a fileno() method. >> >> > Yes, that's a good point - the reason is I didn't want to restrict the > interface to only work with select. Maybe I should rethink the > interface. Well what would the interface do if you had a file object? Are you supposed to be able to read/write/seek/tell/etc.? I don't understand why you're trying to do what you're doing. select.select was just an example, select.poll's register/unregister takes any object with a fileno also. Note that socket isn't a file and it has a fileno also. Since what you have isn't a file, chances are returning a file object is a bug not a feature. -bob ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Help with inotify
Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Oct 27, 2005, at 4:32 PM, Neal Becker wrote: > >> "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> >>> I see. Python is making up the EISDIR, looking at the stat result. >>> In Objects/fileobject.c:dircheck generates the EISDIR error, which >>> apparently comes from posix_fdopen, PyFile_FromFile, >>> fill_file_fields. >>> >>> Python simply does not support file objects which stat(2) as >>> directories. >>> >>> >> >> OK, does python have a C API that would allow me to create a python >> file >> object from my C (C++) code? Then instead of using python's fdopen >> I could >> just do it myself. > > Why do you need a file object for something that is not a file > anyway? select.select doesn't require file objects for example, just > objects that have a fileno() method. > Yes, that's a good point - the reason is I didn't want to restrict the interface to only work with select. Maybe I should rethink the interface. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Help with inotify
On Oct 27, 2005, at 4:32 PM, Neal Becker wrote: > "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > >> I see. Python is making up the EISDIR, looking at the stat result. >> In Objects/fileobject.c:dircheck generates the EISDIR error, which >> apparently comes from posix_fdopen, PyFile_FromFile, >> fill_file_fields. >> >> Python simply does not support file objects which stat(2) as >> directories. >> >> > > OK, does python have a C API that would allow me to create a python > file > object from my C (C++) code? Then instead of using python's fdopen > I could > just do it myself. Why do you need a file object for something that is not a file anyway? select.select doesn't require file objects for example, just objects that have a fileno() method. -bob ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
On 10/27/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [SNIP] > Most of you are probably interested in checking out one of these > folders: > > svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/trunk > svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/branches/release24-maint > svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/peps > Why the entire 'peps' directory and not just the trunk like with 'python'? It looks like no tags or branches have ever been created for the PEPs and thus are not really needed. I am also curious as to what you would have me check out for the sandbox; whole directory or just the trunk? -Brett ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
Walter Dörwald wrote: > BTW, ViewCVS seems to be missing the stylesheet. http:// > svn.python.org/view/*docroot*/styles.css gives an exception > complaining about "No such file or directory: '/etc/viewcvs/doc/ > styles.css'" Thanks, fixed. I already wondered why I was supposed to create a /viewcvs Alias in the apache configuration... Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Help with inotify
Neal Becker wrote:
> SYS_253(0, 0x7f88f0f0, 0x2dda3f00, 0x2ab4611b, 0x7) = 4
> close(3)= 0
> futex(0x502530, FUTEX_WAKE, 1) = 0
> futex(0x502530, FUTEX_WAKE, 1) = 0
> fstat(1, {st_mode=S_IFCHR|0620, st_rdev=makedev(136, 3), ...}) = 0
> mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) =
> 0x2dc12000
> write(1, "4\n", 2) = 2
> fcntl(4, F_GETFL) = 0 (flags O_RDONLY)
> fstat(4, {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0600, st_size=0, ...}) = 0
> mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) =
> 0x2dc13000
> lseek(4, 0, SEEK_CUR) = -1 ESPIPE (Illegal seek)
> fstat(4, {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0600, st_size=0, ...}) = 0
> close(4)= 0
> munmap(0x2dc13000, 4096)= 0
> write(2, "Traceback (most recent call last"..., 35) = 35
I see. Python is making up the EISDIR, looking at the stat result.
In Objects/fileobject.c:dircheck generates the EISDIR error, which
apparently comes from posix_fdopen, PyFile_FromFile,
fill_file_fields.
Python simply does not support file objects which stat(2) as directories.
Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover
Fred> Are you suggesting that the key-deposit address be routed to the Fred> webmaster crew? Most of the webmasters don't have the access Fred> needed to deposit keys. In fact, many of us on the pydotorg list don't have ssh access either. I suspect the number of useful recipients is no more than five (Martin, Barry, Anthony, Sean, maybe one or two others). Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Help with inotify
"Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> Neal Becker wrote:
>> Yes, tried that- learned nothing.
>
> Please go back further in the trace file. There must be a return
> value of -1 (EISDIR) somewhere in the file, try to locate that.
>
>> Here's strace. The write of '4' is where my code writes the value of
>> fileno() to stdout, which is '4', which is correct - notice that
>> open("test-inotify.py") returned '3':
>
> The fragment you quote only refers to the part where it tries to
> format the traceback. The value '4' is never written, instead,
> it writes 4 spaces (the second argument is the bytes, the third
> is the number of bytes).
>
This 1st line is the syscall for inotify:
SYS_253(0, 0x7f88f0f0, 0x2dda3f00, 0x2ab4611b, 0x7) = 4
close(3)= 0
futex(0x502530, FUTEX_WAKE, 1) = 0
futex(0x502530, FUTEX_WAKE, 1) = 0
fstat(1, {st_mode=S_IFCHR|0620, st_rdev=makedev(136, 3), ...}) = 0
mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) =
0x2dc12000
write(1, "4\n", 2) = 2
fcntl(4, F_GETFL) = 0 (flags O_RDONLY)
fstat(4, {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0600, st_size=0, ...}) = 0
mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) =
0x2dc13000
lseek(4, 0, SEEK_CUR) = -1 ESPIPE (Illegal seek)
fstat(4, {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0600, st_size=0, ...}) = 0
close(4)= 0
munmap(0x2dc13000, 4096)= 0
write(2, "Traceback (most recent call last"..., 35) = 35
open("test-inotify.py", O_RDONLY) = 3
write(2, " File \"test-inotify.py\", line 6"..., 39) = 39
...
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Re: [Python-Dev] Help with inotify
Neal Becker wrote:
> Yes, tried that- learned nothing.
Please go back further in the trace file. There must be a return
value of -1 (EISDIR) somewhere in the file, try to locate that.
> Here's strace. The write of '4' is where my code writes the value of
> fileno() to stdout, which is '4', which is correct - notice that
> open("test-inotify.py") returned '3':
The fragment you quote only refers to the part where it tries to
format the traceback. The value '4' is never written, instead,
it writes 4 spaces (the second argument is the bytes, the third
is the number of bytes).
Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
Am 27.10.2005 um 19:18 schrieb Martin v. Löwis: > Walter Dörwald wrote: > >> Thanks for doing this. >> BTW, will there be daily tarballs, like the one available from: >> http://cvs.perl.org/snapshots/python/python/python-latest.tar.gz >> > > Will be, yes (I'm saddened that you refer to this location, and not > http://www.dcl.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/home/loewis/python.tgz :-) I didn't know that, although I probably should, the links are on the official page at http://www.python.org/dev/. ;) BTW, http://www.dcl.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/home/loewis/python.tgz is just 45 bytes. > I'm planning to provide them at http://svn.python.org/snapshots. Great! BTW, ViewCVS seems to be missing the stylesheet. http:// svn.python.org/view/*docroot*/styles.css gives an exception complaining about "No such file or directory: '/etc/viewcvs/doc/ styles.css'" Bye, Walter Dörwald ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Docs] MinGW and libpython24.a
David Abrahams wrote: > This isn't rocket science. Or maybe it is; if adding > > These instructions only apply if you're using a version of Python > prior to 2.4.1 with a MinGW prior to 3.0.0 (with > binutils-2.13.90-20030111-1) > > is not acceptable then no patch I could submit would be acceptable, > because I don't know how to do better either. Thanks, committed as revision 41338: http://svn.python.org/projects/python/trunk/Doc/inst/inst.tex I wasn't sure whether to place this text at the beginning or the end (i.e. whether all instructions of this section are incorrect or only part of it); I put it at the beginning. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Docs] MinGW and libpython24.a
"Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > David Abrahams wrote: >> As it turns out, MinGW also implemented, in version 3.0.0 (with >> binutils-2.13.90-20030111-1), features which make the creation of >> libpython24.a unnecessary. So whoever maintains this doc might want >> to note that you only need that step if you are using a version of >> Python prior to 2.4.1 with a MinGW prior to 3.0.0 (with >> binutils-2.13.90-20030111-1). > > Can you please provide a patch to the documentation? None of the > regular documentation maintainers would know what exactly to write; > this is all user-contributed. This isn't rocket science. Or maybe it is; if adding These instructions only apply if you're using a version of Python prior to 2.4.1 with a MinGW prior to 3.0.0 (with binutils-2.13.90-20030111-1) is not acceptable then no patch I could submit would be acceptable, because I don't know how to do better either. -- Dave Abrahams Boost Consulting www.boost-consulting.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover
On Thursday 27 October 2005 14:16, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > I think I would request a separate address; I don't think I want to get > all webmaster email. I like the idea of a separate address as well. > That address should probably include webmaster, though. Are you suggesting that the key-deposit address be routed to the webmaster crew? Most of the webmasters don't have the access needed to deposit keys. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Help with inotify
"Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> Neal Becker wrote:
>> Any ideas? I'd rather not have to trace through python if I could avoid
>> it (I don't even have source installed here).
>
> Use strace, then. Find out what precise system call gives you this
> error. If this is not enough clue, post the relevant fragment of the
> trace output. Usage would be
>
> strace -o muell python test_notify.py
> (look into the file muell afterwards)
>
Yes, tried that- learned nothing.
I suspect what's happening is that python's fdopen is using some stat call
to determine whether the file descriptor refers to a directory, and is
getting an answer that the inotify fd does. Don't know what to do about
it. Can I build a python file object in "C" from the fd?
Here's strace. The write of '4' is where my code writes the value of
fileno() to stdout, which is '4', which is correct - notice that
open("test-inotify.py") returned '3':
...
open("test-inotify.py", O_RDONLY) = 3
write(2, " File \"test-inotify.py\", line 6"..., 39) = 39
fstat(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0664, st_size=87, ...}) = 0
mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) =
0x2dc13000
read(3, "from inotify import *\nimport os\n"..., 4096) = 87
write(2, "", 4) = 4
write(2, "os.fdopen (i.fileno())\n", 23) = 23
close(3)= 0
munmap(0x2dc13000, 4096)= 0
write(2, "IOError", 7) = 7
write(2, ": ", 2) = 2
write(2, "[Errno 21] Is a directory", 25) = 25
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Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover
Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote: > Mail to pydotorg doesn't allow posting from non-members; I watch for > notifications for owner on that list and try to approve as quickly as > possible, but it's a manual process just to get the mail through. Ah, didn't know this. > We should probably have a dedicated address for this, or tell people to send > them to webmaster. I think I would request a separate address; I don't think I want to get all webmaster email. That address should probably include webmaster, though. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).
Greg Ewing wrote: > I still think this is a much worse potential problem > than that of "l" vs "1", etc. It's reasonable to > adopt the practice of never using "l" as a single > letter identifier, for example. But it would be > unreasonable to ban the use of "E" as an identifier > on the grounds that someone somewhere might confuse > it with a capital epsilon. As a style guide, people should use single-letter identifiers only for local variables. If they follow the guideline, it should be easy to tell whether such an identifier is Latin or Greek (if everything else in the function is Latin, the E likely is as well). > An alternative would be to identify such confusable > letters in the various alphabets and define them > to be equivalent. pylint could check for such things (although I very much doubt it would have any hits in the next 10 years). > And beyond the issue of alphabets there's also the > question of whether accented characters should be > considered distinct. I can see quite a few holy > flame wars erupting over that... For that, there is the Unicode TR that precisely defines how this should be done. People should then have their wars with the Unicode consortium. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Help with inotify
Neal Becker wrote: > Any ideas? I'd rather not have to trace through python if I could avoid it > (I don't even have source installed here). Use strace, then. Find out what precise system call gives you this error. If this is not enough clue, post the relevant fragment of the trace output. Usage would be strace -o muell python test_notify.py (look into the file muell afterwards) Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Docs] MinGW and libpython24.a
David Abrahams wrote: > As it turns out, MinGW also implemented, in version 3.0.0 (with > binutils-2.13.90-20030111-1), features which make the creation of > libpython24.a unnecessary. So whoever maintains this doc might want > to note that you only need that step if you are using a version of > Python prior to 2.4.1 with a MinGW prior to 3.0.0 (with > binutils-2.13.90-20030111-1). Can you please provide a patch to the documentation? None of the regular documentation maintainers would know what exactly to write; this is all user-contributed. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
Michael Hudson wrote: > Do checkins to svn.python.org go to the python-checkins list already? They do indeed - you should have received one commit message by now (me testing whether committing works, on PEP 347). Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
Wolfgang Langner wrote: > But why is an old subversion used ? > (Powered by Subversion version 1.1.4) That's the one Debian provides. We don't build our own, but use Debian packages for everything. Also, subversion 1.1 is not old: it was released on Oct 4, 2004; 1.1.4 is less than a year old. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover
On Thursday 27 October 2005 12:07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Send your keys to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unless you specify otherwise, your > login will probably be "jim.fulton". Mail to pydotorg doesn't allow posting from non-members; I watch for notifications for owner on that list and try to approve as quickly as possible, but it's a manual process just to get the mail through. We should probably have a dedicated address for this, or tell people to send them to webmaster. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
Guido van Rossum wrote: > Woo hoo! Thanks for all the hard work and good thinking, Martin. My pleasure! >>svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/trunk >>svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/branches/release24-maint >>svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/peps > > > This doesn't work for me. I'm sure the problem is on my end, but my > svn skills are too rusty to figure it out. It's actually not: you missed the pythondev@ part. To access the repository, your SSH key must be added to pythondev's authorized_keys file; it previously wasn't. I have now added your key .comcast.net to the file; I did not add [EMAIL PROTECTED], as SSH1 is not supported. Please try again. The list of committers is (now) at http://www.python.org/dev/committers Anybody not on the list who wishes to (and had access to the CVS) please send your key; if you have access to dinsdale, just let us know and we copy your key. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
Patch / Bug Summary ___ Patches : 360 open (+16) / 2956 closed ( +1) / 3316 total (+17) Bugs: 893 open (+10) / 5353 closed (+12) / 6246 total (+22) RFE : 199 open ( -2) / 189 closed ( +2) / 388 total ( +0) New / Reopened Patches __ Patch for (Doc) #1255218 (2005-10-17) http://python.org/sf/1328526 opened by Peter van Kampen Patch for (Doc) #1261659 (2005-10-17) http://python.org/sf/1328566 opened by Peter van Kampen pclose raises spurious exception on win32 (2005-10-17) http://python.org/sf/1328851 opened by Guido van Rossum datetime/xmlrpclib.DateTime comparison (2005-10-18) http://python.org/sf/1330538 opened by Skip Montanaro tarfile.py: fix for 1330039 (2005-10-19) CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1331635 opened by Lars Gustäbel Allow use of non-latin1 chars in interactive shell (2005-10-21) http://python.org/sf/1333679 opened by Noam Raphael Fix for int(string, base) wrong answers (2005-10-22) http://python.org/sf/1334979 opened by Adam Olsen Patch to implement PEP 351 (2005-10-23) http://python.org/sf/1335812 opened by Barry A. Warsaw Fix for int(string, base) wrong answers (take 2) (2005-10-24) http://python.org/sf/1335972 opened by Alan McIntyre remove 4 ints from PyFrameObject (2005-10-24) http://python.org/sf/1337051 opened by Neal Norwitz Elemental Security contribution - parsexml.py (2005-10-25) http://python.org/sf/1337648 opened by Guido van Rossum Elemental Security contribution - pgen2 package (2005-10-25) http://python.org/sf/1337696 opened by Guido van Rossum fileinput patch for bug #1336582 (2005-10-25) http://python.org/sf/1337756 opened by A. Murat EREN Inconsistent use of buffer interface in string and unicode (2005-10-25) http://python.org/sf/1337876 opened by Phil Thompson tarfile.py: fix for bug #1336623 (2005-10-26) http://python.org/sf/1338314 opened by Lars Gustäbel cross compile and mingw support (2005-10-27) http://python.org/sf/1339673 opened by Jan Nieuwenhuizen Patches Closed __ tarfile.py: fix for 1330039 (2005-10-19) http://python.org/sf/1331635 closed by nnorwitz New / Reopened Bugs ___ HTTPResponse instance has no attribute 'fileno' (2005-10-16) http://python.org/sf/1327971 opened by Kevin Dwyer __getslice__ taking priority over __getitem__ (2005-10-17) http://python.org/sf/1328278 opened by Josh Marshall os-process.html (2005-10-17) CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1328915 opened by Noah Spurrier Empty Generator doesn't evaluate as False (2005-10-17) CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1328959 opened by Christian Höltje tarfile.add() produces hard links instead of normal files (2005-10-18) CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1330039 opened by Martin Pitt utf 7 codec broken (2005-10-19) CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1331062 opened by Ralf Schmitt string_subscript doesn't check for failed PyMem_Malloc (2005-10-19) CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1331563 opened by Adam Olsen Incorrect use of -L/usr/lib/termcap (2005-10-19) http://python.org/sf/1332732 opened by Robert M. Zigweid Inaccurate footnote 1 in Lib ref, sect 2.3.6.4 (2005-10-20) CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1332780 opened by Andy BSD DB test failures for BSD DB 3.2 (2005-10-19) http://python.org/sf/1332852 opened by Neal Norwitz Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (2005-10-20) http://python.org/sf/1332869 opened by Andrew Mitchell BSD DB test failures for BSD DB 4.1 (2005-10-19) http://python.org/sf/1332873 opened by Neal Norwitz Bugs of the new AST compiler (2005-10-21) http://python.org/sf/1333982 opened by Armin Rigo int(string, base) wrong answers (2005-10-22) http://python.org/sf/1334662 opened by Tim Peters Python 2.4.2 doesn't build with "--without-threads" (2005-10-22) http://python.org/sf/1335054 opened by Gunter Ohrner fileinput device or resource busy error (2005-10-24) http://python.org/sf/1336582 opened by A. Murat EREN tarfile can't extract some tar archives.. (2005-10-24) http://python.org/sf/1336623 opened by A. Murat EREN Python.h should include system headers properly [POSIX] (2005-10-25) http://python.org/sf/1337400 opened by Dimitri Papadopoulos IDLE, F5 wrong external file content on error. (2005-10-26) http://python.org/sf/1337987 opened by MvGulik doctest mishandles exceptions raised within generators (2005-10-26) http://python.org/sf/1337990 opened by Tim Wegener Memory keeping (2005-10-26) http://python.org/sf/1338264 opened by sin CVS webbrowser.py (1.40) bugs (2005-10-26) http://python.org/sf/1338995 opened by Greg Couch shelve.Shelf.__del__ throws exceptions (2005-10-26) http://python.org/sf/1339007 opened by Geoffrey T. Dairiki Th
[Python-Dev] Help with inotify
I'm trying to make a module to support inotify (linux). I put together a module using boost::python. Problem is, inotify uses a file descriptor. If I call python os.fdopen on it, I get an error: Python 2.4.1 (#1, May 16 2005, 15:15:14) [GCC 4.0.0 20050512 (Red Hat 4.0.0-5)] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> from inotify import * >>> import os >>> i=inotify() >>> i.fileno() 4 >>> os.fdopen (i.fileno()) Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? IOError: [Errno 21] Is a directory Any ideas? I'd rather not have to trace through python if I could avoid it (I don't even have source installed here). ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover
Jim Fulton wrote: >> Can anyone point an old CVS/Perforce-Luddite at instructions for how >> to use the new SVN repository? > > > And can you remind us where to send our public keys? :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] should work; you will get a confirmation when they are installed. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Though there's no svn/cvs cheatsheet there, you may also find isolated > tidbits in the Subversion FAQ: > > http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html > > Just grep around for "cvs". In addition, you might want to read http://www.python.org/dev/svn.html Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
Walter Dörwald wrote: > Thanks for doing this. > > BTW, will there be daily tarballs, like the one available from: > http://cvs.perl.org/snapshots/python/python/python-latest.tar.gz Will be, yes (I'm saddened that you refer to this location, and not http://www.dcl.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/home/loewis/python.tgz :-) I'm planning to provide them at http://svn.python.org/snapshots. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover
Jim> And can you remind us where to send our public keys? :) Jim, Send your keys to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unless you specify otherwise, your login will probably be "jim.fulton". Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
On 10/27/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The Python source code repository is now converted to subversion; > please feel free to start checking out new sandboxes. Woo hoo! Thanks for all the hard work and good thinking, Martin. > Most of you are probably interested in checking out one of these > folders: > > svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/trunk > svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/branches/release24-maint > svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/peps This doesn't work for me. I'm sure the problem is on my end, but my svn skills are too rusty to figure it out. I get this: $ svn checkout svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/peps Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive). svn: Connection closed unexpectedly $svn --version svn, version 1.2.0 (r14790) compiled Jun 13 2005, 18:51:32 Copyright (C) 2000-2005 CollabNet. Subversion is open source software, see http://subversion.tigris.org/ This product includes software developed by CollabNet (http://www.Collab.Net/). The following repository access (RA) modules are available: * ra_dav : Module for accessing a repository via WebDAV (DeltaV) protocol. - handles 'http' scheme - handles 'https' scheme * ra_svn : Module for accessing a repository using the svn network protocol. - handles 'svn' scheme * ra_local : Module for accessing a repository on local disk. - handles 'file' scheme $ I can ssh to svn.python.org just fine, with no password (it says it's dinsdale). I can checkout the read-only versions just fine. I can work with the pydotorg svn repository just fine (checked something in last week). -- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover
Jeremy Hylton wrote: > Can anyone point an old CVS/Perforce-Luddite at instructions for how > to use the new SVN repository? And can you remind us where to send our public keys? :) Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > The Python source code repository is now converted to subversion; > please feel free to start checking out new sandboxes. For a few > days, this installation probably still needs to be considered in > testing. If there are no serious problems found by next Monday, > I would consider conversion of the data complete. The CVS repository > will be kept available read-only for a while longer, so you can > easily forward any patches you may have. Woo! Do checkins to svn.python.org go to the python-checkins list already? Cheers, mwh -- How do I keep people from reading my Perl code? Oh wait. Ha ha! -- from Twisted.Quotes ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
Hello, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > martin> The Python source code repository is now converted to > martin> subversion; please feel free to start checking out new > martin> sandboxes. > > Excellent... Thanks for all the effort. Good work. I checked the http and viewcvs access and all worked. But why is an old subversion used ? (Powered by Subversion version 1.1.4) bye by Wolfgang ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover
Jeremy> Can anyone point an old CVS/Perforce-Luddite at instructions for
Jeremy> how to use the new SVN repository?
Jeremy,
I'd never used Subversion until Barry grabbed the python.org web maintainers
by our collective ears and dragged us to the table with the kool aid. As it
turns out, the svn flavored kool aid tastes about the same as the cvs flavor
(svn {commit,up,diff} == cvs {commit,up,diff}, though there are some slight
aftertastes you have to get used to (e.g., revision numbers are for the
entire branch, not just a single file).
That said, the best place to start is probably the Subversion book,
available in both online and dead tree versions:
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/
Appendix A of that book is "Subversion for CVS Users". Probably worth a
quick skim and a browser bookmark.
Though there's no svn/cvs cheatsheet there, you may also find isolated
tidbits in the Subversion FAQ:
http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html
Just grep around for "cvs".
Skip
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Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed resolutions for open PEP 343 issues
Michael Chermside wrote: > Guido writes: >> I find "AttributeError: __exit__" just as informative. > > Eric Nieuwland responds: >> I see. Then why don't we unify *Error into Error? >> Just read the message and know what it means. >> And we could then drop the burden of exception classes and only use >> the >> message. >> A sense of deja-vu comes over me somehow ;-) > > The answer (and there _IS_ an answer) is that using different exception > types allows the user some flexibility in CATCHING the exceptions. The > discussion you have been following obscures that point somewhat because > there's little meaningful difference between TypeError and > AttributeError (at least in well-written code that doesn't have > unnecessary typechecks in it). Yep. I too would like to have 'SOME flexibility in catching the exceptions' meaning I'd like to be able to catch TypeErrors and AttributeErrors while not catching what I call ProtocolErrors. The simple reason is that in most of my apps TypeErrors and AttributeErrors will depend on the runtime situation, while ProtocolErrors will mostly be static. So I'll debug for ProtocolErrors and I'll handle runtime stuff. > If there were a significant difference between TypeError and > AttributeError then Nick and Guido would have immediately chosen the > appropriate error type based on functionality rather than style, and > there wouldn't have been any need for discussion. I got that already. To me it means one of them may be a candidate for removal/redefinition. > Oh yeah, and you can also put extra info into an exception object > besides just the error message. (We don't do that as often as we > should... it's a powerful technique.) Perhaps that needs for propaganda then. I won't dare to suggest syntactic sugar ;-) --eric ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The Python source code repository is now converted to subversion; > [...] Thanks for doing this. BTW, will there be daily tarballs, like the one available from: http://cvs.perl.org/snapshots/python/python/python-latest.tar.gz Bye, Walter Dörwald ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] [Docs] MinGW and libpython24.a
David Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> David Abrahams wrote: >>> Is the instruction at >>> http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/inst/tweak-flags.html#SECTION000622000 >>> still relevant? I am not 100% certain I didn't make one myself, but >>> it looks to me as though my Windows Python 2.4.1 distro came with a >>> libpython24.a. I am asking here because it seems only the person who >>> prepares the installer would know. >> >> That impression might be incorrect: I can tell you when I started >> including libpython24.a, but I have no clue whether the instructions >> you refer to are correct - I don't use the file myself at all. >> >>> If this is true, in which version was it introduced? >> >> It was introduced in 1.20/1.16.2.4 of Tools/msi/msi.py in response to >> patch #1088716; this in turn was first used to release r241c1. > > Thanks! As it turns out, MinGW also implemented, in version 3.0.0 (with binutils-2.13.90-20030111-1), features which make the creation of libpython24.a unnecessary. So whoever maintains this doc might want to note that you only need that step if you are using a version of Python prior to 2.4.1 with a MinGW prior to 3.0.0 (with binutils-2.13.90-20030111-1). Regards -- Dave Abrahams Boost Consulting www.boost-consulting.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover
Can anyone point an old CVS/Perforce-Luddite at instructions for how to use the new SVN repository? Jeremy On 10/23/05, Michael Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I'd like to start the subversion switchover this coming Wednesday, > > with a total commit freeze at 16:00 GMT. > > Yay! Thanks again for doing this. > > Cheers, > mwh > > -- > [Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion > different sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines > the power of C with the readability of PostScript. -- Jamie Zawinski > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/jeremy%40alum.mit.edu > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
> "martin" == martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: martin> The Python source code repository is now converted to martin> subversion; please feel free to start checking out new martin> sandboxes. Excellent... Thanks for all the effort. Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Conversion to Subversion is complete
The Python source code repository is now converted to subversion; please feel free to start checking out new sandboxes. For a few days, this installation probably still needs to be considered in testing. If there are no serious problems found by next Monday, I would consider conversion of the data complete. The CVS repository will be kept available read-only for a while longer, so you can easily forward any patches you may have. Most of you are probably interested in checking out one of these folders: svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/trunk svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/branches/release24-maint svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/peps The anonymous read-only equivalents of these are http://svn.python.org/projects/python/trunk http://svn.python.org/projects/python/branches/release24-maint http://svn.python.org/projects/peps As mentioned before, in addition to "plain" http/WebDAV, viewcvs is available at http://svn.python.org/view/ There are some more things left to be done, such as updating the developer documentation. I'll start working on that soon, but contributions are welcome. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).
Greg Ewing wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > >>If you are told to debug a program >>written by say a Japanese programmer using Japanese identifiers >>you are going to have a really hard time. > > > Or you could look upon it as an opportunity to > broaden your mental horizons by learning some > Japanese. :-) I just took Japanese as exmaple for a language and script that I don't know anything about. I would actually love to learn some Japanese, but simply don't have the time for learning it. Anyway, I could just as well have chosen Tibetian, Thai or Limbu scripts (which all look very nice, BTW): http://www.unicode.org/charts/ Perhaps this is not as bad after all - I just don't think that it will help code readability in the long run. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Oct 27 2005) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ ::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicitconversions).
Martin v. Löwis wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >>You even argued against having non-ASCII identifiers: >> >>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-May/102936.html > > > I see :-) It seems I have changed my mind since then (which > apparently predates PEP 263). > > One issue I apparently was worried about was the plan to use > native-encoding byte strings for the identifiers; this I didn't > like at all. > > >>* Unicode identifiers are going to introduce massive >>code breakage - just think of all the tools people use >>to manipulate Python code today; I'm quite sure that >>most of it will fail in one way or another if you present >>it Unicode literals such as in "zähler += 1". > > > True. Today, I think I would be willing to accept the > code breakage: these tools had quite some time to update > themselves to PEP 263 (even though not all of them have > done so yet); also, usage of the feature would only spread > gradually. A failure to support the feature in the Python > proper would be treated as a bug by us; how tool providers > deal with the feature would be their choice. I was thinking of introspection and debugging tools. These would then see Unicode objects in the namespace dictionaries and this will likely break a lot of code - much for the same reason you see code breakage now if you let Unicode object enter the Python standard lib without warning :-) >>* People don't seem very interested in using Unicode >>identifiers, e.g. >> >> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/i18n-sig/2001-February/000828.html > > > True. However, I also suspect that lack of tool support > contributes to that. For the specific case of Java, > there is no notion of source encoding, which makes Unicode > identifiers really tedious to use. > > If it were really easy to use, I assume people would actually > use it - atleast in some of the contexts, like teaching, > where Python is also widely used. Well, that has two sides: Of course, you'll always find some people that will like a certain feature. The question is what effects does it have on the rest of us. Python has always put some constraints on programmers to raise code readability, e.g. white space awareness. Giving them Unicode identifiers sounds like a step backwards in this context. Note that I'm not talking about comments, string literal contents, etc. - only the programming logic, ie. keywords and identifiers. >>Do you really think that it will help with code readability >>if programmers are allowed to use native scripts for their >>identifiers ? > > > Yes, I do - for some groups of users. Of course, code sharing > would be more difficult, and there certainly should be a policy > to use only ASCII in the standard library. But within local > groups, users would find understanding code easier if they > knew what the identifiers actually meant. Hmm, but why do you think they wouldn't understand the meaning of ASCII versions of the identifiers ? Note that using ASCII doesn't necessarily mean that you have to use English as basis for the naming schemes of identifiers. >>If you are told to debug a program >>written by say a Japanese programmer using Japanese identifiers >>you are going to have a really hard time. Integrating such >>code into other applications will be even harder, since you'd >>be forced to use his Japanese class names in your application. > > > Certainly, yes. There is a trade-off: you can make it easier > for some people to read and write code if they can use their > native script; at the same time, it would be harder for others > to read and modify it. > > It's a policy decision whether you use English identifiers or > not - it shouldn't be a technical decision (as it currently > is). See above: ASCII != English. Most scripts have a transliteration into ASCII - simply because that's the global standard for scripts. >>I think source code encodings provide an ideal way to >>have comments written in native scripts - and people >>use that a lot. However, keeping the program code itself >>in plain ASCII makes it far more readable and reusable >>across locales. Something that's important in this >>globalized world. > > > Certainly. However, some programs don't need to live in > a globalized world - e.g. if they are homework in a school. > Within a locale, using native scripts would make the program > more readable. True. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Oct 27 2005) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ ::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/py
