Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
Le 19/01/2011 18:04, Georg Brandl a écrit : Am 19.01.2011 16:25, schrieb Eric Smith: Bonus question: if we remove maintainers.rst from py3k, what do we do in 3.1 and 2.7? I’d favor removing them over keeping outdated versions. Is there not some advantage to knowing who was the maintainer (or expert) of a given module at the time of a release? I don't see much advantage. And if you need the version of maintainers.rst in another repo, it's not hard to find the revision that corresponds to the release date. Ping. Do we remove maintainers.rst or do we add a note advising people to look at the up-to-date version on docs.python.org/devguide? (And yes, by “we” I mean I’m volunteering to do either. :) Regards ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:48, Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org wrote: Le 19/01/2011 18:04, Georg Brandl a écrit : Am 19.01.2011 16:25, schrieb Eric Smith: Bonus question: if we remove maintainers.rst from py3k, what do we do in 3.1 and 2.7? I’d favor removing them over keeping outdated versions. Is there not some advantage to knowing who was the maintainer (or expert) of a given module at the time of a release? I don't see much advantage. And if you need the version of maintainers.rst in another repo, it's not hard to find the revision that corresponds to the release date. Ping. Do we remove maintainers.rst or do we add a note advising people to look at the up-to-date version on docs.python.org/devguide? (And yes, by “we” I mean I’m volunteering to do either. :) You're a little late, Eric; I already moved it. =) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
Short of moving README.coverity (I'm waiting to here back from the company), I'm done with my tweaks to the directory. On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 15:31, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: OK, here is my plan that I will implement: MOVE -- developers.txt maintainers.rst README.gdb README.coverity README.Emacs DELETE (seem way too old to still be relevant; tell me if I am wrong) --- README.OpenBSD README.AIX cheatsheet LEAVE everything else (with README properly edited and simplified to only list files with non-obvious names) On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:32, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: There is a bunch of stuff in Misc that probably belongs in the devguide (under Resources) instead of in svn. Here are the files I think can be moved (in order of how strongly I think they should be moved): PURIFY.README README.coverty README.klocwork README.valgrind Porting developers.txt maintainers.rst SpecialBuilds.txt Now before anyone yells that is inconvenient, don't forget that all core developers can check out and edit the devguide, and that almost all of the files listed (SpecialBuilds.txt is the exception) are typically edited and viewed on their own. Anyway, if there is a file listed here you don't think should move out of py3k and into the devguide, speak up. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
Brett, I'm sure I just missed it, but where is the devguide in the Subversion tree? Thx, Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
It's not in the svn tree; it's an Hg repo: ssh://h...@hg.python.org/devguide . The link is also listed in the Resources section of the devguide. On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 11:59, s...@pobox.com wrote: Brett, I'm sure I just missed it, but where is the devguide in the Subversion tree? Thx, Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
Le 17/01/2011 23:41, Nick Coghlan a écrit : On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: [...] Also, I see no need to put the maintainers list in the dev guide, actually. Every time I see someone syncing the version-independent maintainers list across branches a little alarm bell goes off in my head to say that file should be somewhere other than the main source tree. It's also quite possible that once the maintainer list is part of the dev guide, triagers will start using the official copy on python.org and the search function in their web browser rather than running grep over a source checkout. +1 to moving maintainers.rst to the devguide, a wiki page (I’m volunteering to monitor that page for vandalism), or make it somehow part of the bug tracker. Let’s also take the opportunity to rename it to “experts”, following R. David Murray: “Any module without a listed maintainer is maintained by the community as a whole [...] I think perhaps the name chosen for the file was unfortunate. I view it more as the 'experts' file, rather than the maintainers file, though in some cases the expert is indeed the principle maintainer of the module (such as Vinay for logging).” Bonus question: if we remove maintainers.rst from py3k, what do we do in 3.1 and 2.7? I’d favor removing them over keeping outdated versions. Regards ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
Bonus question: if we remove maintainers.rst from py3k, what do we do in 3.1 and 2.7? Iâd favor removing them over keeping outdated versions. Is there not some advantage to knowing who was the maintainer (or expert) of a given module at the time of a release? Eric. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
Am 19.01.2011 16:25, schrieb Eric Smith: Bonus question: if we remove maintainers.rst from py3k, what do we do in 3.1 and 2.7? I’d favor removing them over keeping outdated versions. Is there not some advantage to knowing who was the maintainer (or expert) of a given module at the time of a release? I don't see much advantage. And if you need the version of maintainers.rst in another repo, it's not hard to find the revision that corresponds to the release date. Georg ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
OK, here is my plan that I will implement: MOVE -- developers.txt maintainers.rst README.gdb README.coverity README.Emacs DELETE (seem way too old to still be relevant; tell me if I am wrong) --- README.OpenBSD README.AIX cheatsheet LEAVE everything else (with README properly edited and simplified to only list files with non-obvious names) On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:32, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: There is a bunch of stuff in Misc that probably belongs in the devguide (under Resources) instead of in svn. Here are the files I think can be moved (in order of how strongly I think they should be moved): PURIFY.README README.coverty README.klocwork README.valgrind Porting developers.txt maintainers.rst SpecialBuilds.txt Now before anyone yells that is inconvenient, don't forget that all core developers can check out and edit the devguide, and that almost all of the files listed (SpecialBuilds.txt is the exception) are typically edited and viewed on their own. Anyway, if there is a file listed here you don't think should move out of py3k and into the devguide, speak up. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:31:24 -0800 Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: OK, here is my plan that I will implement: MOVE -- developers.txt maintainers.rst README.gdb README.coverity README.Emacs DELETE (seem way too old to still be relevant; tell me if I am wrong) --- README.OpenBSD README.AIX cheatsheet README.gdb is useful to more than core developers and contributors, so I think it should stay inside Misc. Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 15:49, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:31:24 -0800 Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: OK, here is my plan that I will implement: MOVE -- developers.txt maintainers.rst README.gdb README.coverity README.Emacs DELETE (seem way too old to still be relevant; tell me if I am wrong) --- README.OpenBSD README.AIX cheatsheet README.gdb is useful to more than core developers and contributors, so I think it should stay inside Misc. That's true of README.Emacs as well. But I'm willing to bet more people will find out about the gdb and Emacs details if we put them online through search engines, blogs, and reading the devguide than anyone ever did by digging through the Misc directory. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: I am not describing what is in Misc. It comes down to a question of whether any core dev-specific stuff should be in Misc that is not a configuration file or not. I say no, that the directory should contain stuff that applies to everyone and not specifically to core devs. In that case, I think the memory profiling and debugging info should stay there, as should the build info. Not only can that stuff change between version, but it can all be useful to people that are merely embedding Python or invoking other code from it, and need to dig deeply into what is going on to figure things out. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
There is a bunch of stuff in Misc that probably belongs in the devguide (under Resources) instead of in svn. Here are the files I think can be moved (in order of how strongly I think they should be moved): PURIFY.README README.coverty README.klocwork README.valgrind Porting developers.txt maintainers.rst SpecialBuilds.txt Now before anyone yells that is inconvenient, don't forget that all core developers can check out and edit the devguide, and that almost all of the files listed (SpecialBuilds.txt is the exception) are typically edited and viewed on their own. Anyway, if there is a file listed here you don't think should move out of py3k and into the devguide, speak up. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
Am 17.01.2011 21:32, schrieb Brett Cannon: There is a bunch of stuff in Misc that probably belongs in the devguide (under Resources) instead of in svn. Here are the files I think can be moved (in order of how strongly I think they should be moved): PURIFY.README README.coverty README.klocwork README.valgrind Porting developers.txt maintainers.rst SpecialBuilds.txt Now before anyone yells that is inconvenient, don't forget that all core developers can check out and edit the devguide, and that almost all of the files listed (SpecialBuilds.txt is the exception) are typically edited and viewed on their own. Anyway, if there is a file listed here you don't think should move out of py3k and into the devguide, speak up. No objections, +1. While it seems convenient to have (e.g.) the list of maintainers directly in the source tree, a) developers already know where to find it, no matter if in Misc/ or devguide/ b) others first have to find it anyway, and it's better to find when embedded in the rest of developer-related docs c) everyone can commit to the devguide as well as to cpython d) people should get used to multiple repos with hg coming Same goes for developers.txt. Georg ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: There is a bunch of stuff in Misc that probably belongs in the devguide (under Resources) instead of in svn. Here are the files I think can be moved (in order of how strongly I think they should be moved): PURIFY.README README.coverty README.klocwork README.valgrind Porting developers.txt maintainers.rst SpecialBuilds.txt Now before anyone yells that is inconvenient, don't forget that all core developers can check out and edit the devguide, and that almost all of the files listed (SpecialBuilds.txt is the exception) are typically edited and viewed on their own. Anyway, if there is a file listed here you don't think should move out of py3k and into the devguide, speak up. Wow, that Purify file is really old... Unless anyone can confirm it still works, maybe just toss it? Barry? I would think the best way to decide whether something belongs in the developers guide or in Misc is whether it makes sense for this information to be included in that tar files that people download for specific releases. Especially files that contain stuff that might be useful to copy/paste might still be better off closer to the source code. From that POV the files for which the argument to move them over to devguide is weakest are PURIFY.README (though it really should be named README.purify :-), README.valgrind, and SpecialBuilds.txt. There's also something to be said for keeping version-dependent info closer to the source code -- personally, I would expect to be reading the devguide online. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 12:32:20 -0800 Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: There is a bunch of stuff in Misc that probably belongs in the devguide (under Resources) instead of in svn. Here are the files I think can be moved (in order of how strongly I think they should be moved): PURIFY.README README.coverty README.klocwork README.valgrind Porting developers.txt maintainers.rst SpecialBuilds.txt Now before anyone yells that is inconvenient, don't forget that all core developers can check out and edit the devguide, and that almost all of the files listed (SpecialBuilds.txt is the exception) are typically edited and viewed on their own. Well it *is* inconvenient in the case of maintainers.rst, which is often consulted casually for daily bug tracker work. Grepping Misc/maintainers.rst is much easier than first having to find again where your checkout of the devguide is, and ensuring it is up-to-date. Also, I see no need to put the maintainers list in the dev guide, actually. Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Well it *is* inconvenient in the case of maintainers.rst, which is often consulted casually for daily bug tracker work. Grepping Misc/maintainers.rst is much easier than first having to find again where your checkout of the devguide is, and ensuring it is up-to-date. Also, I see no need to put the maintainers list in the dev guide, actually. Every time I see someone syncing the version-independent maintainers list across branches a little alarm bell goes off in my head to say that file should be somewhere other than the main source tree. It's also quite possible that once the maintainer list is part of the dev guide, triagers will start using the official copy on python.org and the search function in their web browser rather than running grep over a source checkout. So moving the version-independent stuff certainly makes sense, but the stuff that is dependent on a particular version's build system is more questionable. What may make sense is for the devguide to describe the general contents of the files in Misc, but point out that for any given version, the version specific details in Misc take precedence. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
On Jan 17, 2011, at 12:53 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: Wow, that Purify file is really old... Unless anyone can confirm it still works, maybe just toss it? Barry? Wow indeed. The email address in there hasn't worked in, what? a decade? :) Toss it! -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Moving stuff out of Misc and over to the devguide
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 14:41, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Well it *is* inconvenient in the case of maintainers.rst, which is often consulted casually for daily bug tracker work. Grepping Misc/maintainers.rst is much easier than first having to find again where your checkout of the devguide is, and ensuring it is up-to-date. Also, I see no need to put the maintainers list in the dev guide, actually. Every time I see someone syncing the version-independent maintainers list across branches a little alarm bell goes off in my head to say that file should be somewhere other than the main source tree. Ditto for me. It's also quite possible that once the maintainer list is part of the dev guide, triagers will start using the official copy on python.org and the search function in their web browser rather than running grep over a source checkout. So moving the version-independent stuff certainly makes sense, but the stuff that is dependent on a particular version's build system is more questionable. What may make sense is for the devguide to describe the general contents of the files in Misc, but point out that for any given version, the version specific details in Misc take precedence. I am not describing what is in Misc. It comes down to a question of whether any core dev-specific stuff should be in Misc that is not a configuration file or not. I say no, that the directory should contain stuff that applies to everyone and not specifically to core devs. -Brett -Brett Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brett%40python.org ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
