-1. I just don't think we should add more operators -- it'll just
cause more question marks on users' faces...
--Guido
On 8/10/06, Greg Ewing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Phillip J. Eby wrote:
>
> > I think it's a warning sign because I *know* what augmented assignment's
> > semantics are supposed to be and I *still* try to use it with setdefault()
> > sometimes -- but only when I'm doing an augmented assignment. I never
> > mistakenly try to assign to a function call in any other circumstance.
>
> I think this problem arises because of the dual semantics
> of augmented assignment. One tends to have two *different*
> mental models of what it does, depending on whether the
> object in question is immutable:
>
>(1) For immutable objects:
>
> x += y <--> x = x + y
>
>(2) For mutable objects:
>
> x += y <--> x.__iadd__(y)
>
> and it's easy to forget that case (2) also happens
> to have the side effect of assigning the result
> back to x, which is usually redundant in the case
> of an immutable object, and thus to slip into the
> error of thinking that
>
> x(z) += y <---> x(z).__iadd__(y)
>
> should be a reasonable thing to expect. And in
> the case of a mutable result from x(z), it's
> hard to argue convincingly that it's not
> reasonable.
>
> As to what this is a warning of, maybe it's that
> the dual semantics were a mistake in the first
> place, and that there really should have been
> two sets of operators, e.g.
>
>x += y <---> x = x + y # literally
>
>x +: y <---> x.__iadd__(y) # with *no* assignment
>
> The +: family of operators would then just be
> normal infix operators, not assignments at all,
> and one would be able to say
>
>x(z) +: y
>
> without any trouble (provided the result of x(z)
> were mutable, since immutables would not have
> an __iadd__ method at all).
>
> Another benefit to this is that the +: operators
> would be usable on objects in an outer scope,
> since they are not assignments and would therefore
> not imply the localness of anything.
>
> Something to consider for Py3k?
>
> PS: Why an extra set of operators, rather than
> ordinary methods? One of the motivations for the
> augmented assignment operators was Numeric and the
> desire to be able to express in-place operations
> on arrays concisely. The +: family would fill this
> need.
>
> PPS: Yes, I know the use of : might be ill-advised.
> It's just an example - any other concise notation
> would do as well.
>
> --
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--+
> University of Canterbury, | Carpe post meridiem! |
> Christchurch, New Zealand | (I'm not a morning person.) |
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]+--+
>
--
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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