Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jan 18)
QOTW: *what* the value is is defined by the operations that the object supports (via its type). *how* the value is represented inside the object is completely irrelevant; a Python implementation may use electric charges in small capacitors, piles of rocks, diapers,or an endless supply of small guys in odd costumes to encode the value inside an object. Changes to the value may be carried out by CPU instructions, caterpillars, toddlers with gasmasks, or an endless supply of small guys in odd costumes. The only thing that's important is that you can, in your Python program, access an objects value via its type, and get other objects back when you do. - Fredrik Lundh I have never seen a case where a dictionary didn't improve the design. - Ivan Van Laningham PyCon Early bird registration ends, FrOSCon 2006 issues a Call for Papers and OSCON 2006 (Python 14 Conference) issues a Call for Proposals: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python.announce/browse_frm/thread/3e139769821f7e6e http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python.announce/browse_frm/thread/a5704ce3f09c4f01 http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python.announce/browse_frm/thread/8f520f85326bf7de With release 0.6, OSAF's Python based PIM Chandler includes an experimentally usable calendar, with support for recurring events, time-zones and the ability to share calendars with others: http://chandler.osafoundation.org/ Fynali asks How to remove subset from a file efficiently?. Follow-ups, as has happened so often before, reduce his runtime from a few minutes to a few seconds: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/929fcdf0ff9731dc Tim Peters explains why you shouldn't expect much from atexit + threads: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/fe9e426650764ed9 Scott David Daniels suggests use of decorators to handle unit tests that are known to fail: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/7ea0762494ef96ff Robin Becker requests some smart/fast way to flatten a level one list and receives a number of suggestions: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/383aab2c3467eb59 A discussion of the draft for a new Python.org web site leads to a conclusion of general happiness with the new look: http://beta.python.org Brian Blais asks how do 'real' python programmers work? and receives a sample of development processes that Pythonistas use, focused on what kind of windows people have on their screen, but also including such important aspects as test driven development: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/82b4f2f90b9def56 Michael Galvin receives a few suggestions on how to get both text and graphics to a printer from Python: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/bc0742534da994d2 Duncan Booth and others explain how to make a dictionary aware of its own changes: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/eeca4df10529f7e0 Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages: Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional center of Pythonia http://www.python.org Notice especially the master FAQ http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the marvelous daily python url http://www.pythonware.com/daily Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new) World-Wide Web articles related to Python. http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL are utterly different in their technologies and generally in their results. For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index much of the universe of Pybloggers. http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog http://www.planetpython.org/ http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software. Be sure to scan this newsgroup weekly. http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djqas_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week. http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ The Python Package Index catalogues packages. http://www.python.org/pypi/ The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references to all
ANN: AsciiDoc 7.1.0 released
This release introduces a2x(1), an AsciiDoc DocBook toolchain wrapper to automate the generation and sequencing of toolchain commands (see also http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/CHANGELOG.html). What is it? --- AsciiDoc is an uncomplicated text document format for writing articles, short documents, books and UNIX man pages. AsciiDoc files can be translated to HTML, XHTML (with CSS2) and DocBook (articles, books and refentry documents) using the asciidoc(1) command. AsciiDoc is configurable: both the AsciiDoc source file syntax and the backend output markups (which can be almost any type of SGML/XML markup) can be customized and extended by user. Requisites -- Python 2.3 or higher. Obtaining AsciiDoc -- The latest AsciiDoc version, examples and online documentation can be downloaded from http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/ AsciiDoc is also hosted at the SourceForge at http://sourceforge.net/projects/asciidoc/ Regards, Stuart -- Stuart Rackham [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
ANN: PyLucid 0.6.0 stable released
It is finally done! The v0.6.0 version is stable. (I think.) About: -- PyLucid is a lightweight, OpenSource (GPL 2.x or newer) content management system written in pure Python CGI. Nearly all output can be customized. No shell account is needed. To run PyLucid you need a standard Webserver with Python (at least v2.2.1) CGI and MySQL. Changes: * major changes o NEW: Module/Plugin Administration available. o NEW: Basic User Management o The Module-Manager is complete rewritten. o Plugin-Config now in a seperate File. o Plugins can have own SQL-Tables, internal_pages and stylesheets. o NEW: internal_pages can be written in simpleTAL * minor / internal changes o Rewritten internal_pages: Used CSS instead of tables. o enhanced: manual encoding from data base o bugfixes in tinyTextile Markup o Tables plugin and plugindata where now in use ;) o page_internals with no markup use SQL-'NULL' instand of ID 1 http://pylucid.org/index.py?p=/Download/History Download: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=146328package_id=161206 how to install PyLucid: http://www.pylucid.org/index.py?p=/Download/install+PyLucid update instructions: http://www.pylucid.org/index.py?p=/Download/update+instructions -- Mfg. Jens Diemer CMS in pure Python CGI: http://www.pylucid.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
Re: OT: excellent book on information theory
Terry Hancock wrote: On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:28:15 + Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Grant Edwards wrote: Very interesting. And rather sad that editors think the average Amermican reader too dim-witted to figure out (in context, even) that a car park is a parking lot and a dustbin is a trash can. They know that the average American could work it out. They also know that the average American doesn't like to do anything remotely like hard thinking, hence they make these changes so the books don't read like foreign literature. I'll pass on the snobbery. I don't know what snobbery is involved: the same is true of the average English reader, but the book was written in English. The real reason is that it was an expensively promoted book. Customizing it for an American audience was a way to suck money out of that flow into the pockets of the American publisher. In order to justify that expense, they have to have something to show for their efforts. Or if you want to put it another way, if you pay somebody to fiddle with the prose, fiddle they will. If you say so. Stranger things have happened. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Arithmetic sequences in Python
Op 2006-01-17, Steven Bethard schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon wrote: Why don't we give slices more functionality and use them. These are a number of ideas I had. (These are python3k ideas) 1) Make slices iterables. (No more need for (x)range) 2) Use a bottom and stop variable as default for the start and stop attribute. top would be a value that is greater than any other value, bottom would be a value smaller than any other value. Just checking your intent here. What should these do? (2:5)# should give me 2, 3, 4 Yes. (2:5:-1) # infinite iterator 2, 1, 0, ...? No it would give nothing, think xrange(2,5,-1) (:5) # start at -infinity? what does that even mean? I'm still thinking abouth this. My preffered idea now it it would be an endless loop returning bottom elements. (:5:-1) # start at -infinity and go backwards?!! This would give nothing. The idea is that if the step is negative the iteration stops when the (hidden) index is equal or smaller than the stop value. This is true here from the start. I suspect you should be raising some sort of exception if the start isn't defined. That is a possibility too. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Steve Holden wrote: http://beta.python.org Hm. Am I the only one not particularly impressed? Sure the front page is 'slick' but a few clicks reveal a fairly shallow facade of marketing material, with no real content. In general gives the impression of 'phony' company trying to make a big impression. Most good non-tech managers are very wary of such organizations/companies. My gripes with the whole thing: 1. Learn why.., Learn why.., Learn more..? Unless each one takes you directly to a great success story, these should be removed. 2. There is no (published) Python success story for Google. So link to google.com looks phony. What does 'Google written in Python' mean anyway? The google.com server is Python? One backend script is in Python? Without more information, this just seems likes a shameless attempt to create credibility. (Sure I know Google uses Python extensively, but I'm not the one who needs to be sold on Python). 3. What is PyXP? Windows XP? Extreme Programming? Again, there is nothing underneath. Where is the NASA success story? 4. I have a lot of respect for GvR, but there ought to be more advertising of the fact that the language is not supported by just one person. There is an great dev team behind it and a stable PSF organization. Anyone reading 'developed by one person' is not left with the fuzzy feeling of a mature, well-supported product that is here to stay. 5. A 'more..' link under Written in Python is sorely missing. It appears only 5-6 apps are written in Python. Where is a link to the cheese shop? Managers are looking for maturity, stability, support and unique strengths, not coolness or flashy sites (though presentation definitely helps). Hopefully most of these will get fixed as people 'convert' the site and fill in content. I would urge people to do some 'user' testing - get persons not very familiar with Python and get their honest opinion on the site. The only think I liked was the 'Using Python For' section on the home page. That's all for now. Cheers, Shalabh -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: magical expanding hash
Steven Bethard wrote:
Steve Holden wrote:
Steven Bethard wrote:
Agreed. I really hope that Python 3.0 applies Raymond Hettinger's
suggestion Improved default value logic for Dictionaries from
http://wiki.python.org/moin/Python3%2e0Suggestions
This would allow you to make the setdefault() call only once, instead
of on every lookup:
class meh(dict):
def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
super(meh, self).__init__(*args, **kwargs)
self.setdefault(function=meh)
STeVe
In fact, why not go one better and also add a default keyword
parameter to dict()?
It's not backwards compatible:
dict(default=4)
{'default': 4}
And I use the **kwargs form of the dict constructor often enough to hope
that it doesn't go away in Python 3.0.
Nyargle. Thanks, you're quite right, of course: I was focussing on the
list-of-pairs argument style when I wrote that. So the best we could do
is provide a subtype, defaultdict(default, *args, *kw).
It still seems to me that would be better than having to call a method
(though I don't object to the method for use if the defaut must change
dynamically). Maybe I just liked Icon tables too much.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Python cross? Was New Python.org website
Obaid R. wrote: Bugs wrote: I thought I read here that a new website design was in the works for python.org in time for the new year? Is that still true and of so, anyone know what is it's status? Thanks! I googled around and found no background on how the new Python logo came to be selected. Does any one know why or how the logo shown in the upper left corner of the beta.python.org site was choosen? Which other logos were rejected? Is there a particular reason why it is shaped like a cross? Thanks The history of this choice is lost in the mists of time. Many other proposals were made and discussed at around the same time, to the extent that it became clear no one choice could win universal approval. You are the first person to my knowledge to point out that it is shaped like a cross. There is no significance in this shape. Is there, I ask with some trepidation, a specific point to this question? regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Python cross? Was New Python.org website
Obaid R. wrote: Bugs wrote: I thought I read here that a new website design was in the works for python.org in time for the new year? Is that still true and of so, anyone know what is it's status? Thanks! I googled around and found no background on how the new Python logo came to be selected. Does any one know why or how the logo shown in the upper left corner of the beta.python.org site was choosen? Which other logos were rejected? Is there a particular reason why it is shaped like a cross? Thanks One further point: adding pydotorg to your search might yield relevant information, including references to articles that can be found in http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-redesign/ regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Arithmetic sequences in Python
Op 2006-01-17, Gregory Petrosyan schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hey guys, this proposal has already been rejected (it is the PEP 204). No it isn't. In my proposal [1, 2:8, 8] would be equivallent to [1, slice(2,8), 8]. If someone would want the list [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8] with this notation, I would propose a flatten function witch would work with iterators too, so that flat([1, 2:8, 8]) would be the same as flat([1, range(2,8), 8]) In my view python already has slice literals. You are only limited in using this literals an index in subscription. I think this is a rathter pointless limitation and that literal slices could be very usefull when made into literals and usable as parameters. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 10060, 'Operation timed out'
Sumit Acharya wrote:
I am using following script to connect to the server and i try the
connection for 1000 times. Some times it succeeds for all the 1000
times,but some times it fails with error:-
10060, 'Operation timed out'. When it fails with the abover error, it
seems timed out time is 20 seconds. Is there a way I can increase the
timedout time for FTP?
from ftplib import FTP
import time
import sys
host = sys.argv[1]
port = sys.argv[2]
for x in range(1000):
try:
y = time.time()
ftp = FTP()
ftp.connect(host,port)
ftp.login('a','a')
try:
print ftp.sendcmd('pass x')
except:
print sys.exc_value
ftp.close()
except:
print sys.exc_value
r = time.time()
print Timeout %d %d %((r-y),x)
when there is error in connecting, it comes to the outer except and
prints the value of r-y as 21. How i can increase this timeout time? or
this error indicates something else?
Please let me know asap,
In a single-threaded program you can import the socket module and then
use the socket.setdefaulttimeout() function to establish a longer timeout.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Shalabh, You've managed very well to express the same things I feel about the new Python website. What I especially dislike about the new website are the flashy pictures on the front-page with no content and no purpose -- purely boasting but nothing to back up your claims. (I wouldn't mind some sleek pictures there if they weren't desperatly trying to advertise success-stories but instead would link to real content!) I do like to overall look-and-feel of the beta site but I hope the bad bits get fixed before launch! cheers, --Tim -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Arithmetic sequences in Python
Op 2006-01-18, Tom Anderson schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, Antoon Pardon wrote: Op 2006-01-16, Alex Martelli schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven D'Aprano [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For finite sequences, your proposal adds nothing new to existing solutions like range and xrange. Oh come on, [5,4,..0] is much easier to read than range(5,-1,-1). But not easier than reversed(range(6)) [[the 5 in one of the two expressions in your sentence has to be an offbyone;-)]] Why don't we give slices more functionality and use them. These are a number of ideas I had. (These are python3k ideas) 1) Make slices iterables. (No more need for (x)range) 2) Use a bottom and stop variable as default for the start and stop attribute. top would be a value that is greater than any other value, bottom would be a value smaller than any other value. 3) Allow slice notation to be used anywhere a value can be used. 4) Provide a number of extra operators on slices. __neg__ (reverses the slice) __and__ gives the intersection of two slices __or__ gives the union of two slices 5) Provide sequences with a range (or slice) method. This would provide an iterator that iterates over the indexes of the sequences. A slice could be provided +5 for i, el in enumerate(sequence): would become for i in sequence.range(): el = sequence[i] That one, i'm not so happy with - i quite like enumerate; it communicates intention very clearly. I believe enumerate is implemented with iterators, meaning it's potentially more efficient than your approach, too. And since enumerate works on iterators, which yours doesn't, you have to keep it anyway. Still, both would be possible, and it's a matter of taste. But the advantage is that this would still work when someone subclasses a list so that it start index is an other number but 0. It would be possible to patch enumerate to do the right thing in those situations - it could look for a range method on the enumerand, and if it found one, use it to generate the indices. Like this: def enumerate(thing): if (hasattr(thing, range)): indices = thing.range() else: indices = itertools.count() return itertools.izip(indices, thing) Fine by me. I'm not against enumerate. If you only wanted every other index one could do the following for i in sequence.range(::2): which would be equivallent to for i in sequence.range() (::2): Oh, that is nice. Still, you could also extend enumerate to take a range as an optional second parameter and do this with it. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, i suppose. Yes you could probably do so and I'm not against it, I just think that range would be a better base on which you can build enumerate and other things than that enumenrate can be a base. e.g. __len__ could be eliminated and len would be defined as: def len(seq): rng = seq.range() return rng.stop - rng.start -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: XML Writer in wxPython
i have to put the XML in a string. Is there a module with the XML writing funcion? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Python cross? Was New Python.org website
Steve Holden: The history of this choice is lost in the mists of time. Many other proposals were made and discussed at around the same time, to the extent that it became clear no one choice could win universal approval. The two snakes have just been arguing (over decorator syntax, the GIL, and the pressing need to merge the dictionary and list types), are feeling very +cross+, and have turned their backs on each other. Neil -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
[Shalabh Chaturvedi] | Hm. Am I the only one not particularly impressed? Sure the | front page is | 'slick' but a few clicks reveal a fairly shallow facade of marketing | material, with no real content. In general gives the impression of | 'phony' company trying to make a big impression. Most good non-tech | managers are very wary of such organizations/companies. [... snip similar stuff highlighting the relative lightweightness of the content ...] Ummm. I might have missed the point, and certainly what I'm about to say is based on no more than my reading between the lines of Steve's original announcement, but... I see the current beta site as a layout/display/look-and-feel beta, *not* a content beta, at least no more than is absolutely necessary to support the look-and-feel. Now I might be wrong, in which case your comments are pretty much justified. But it looks to me as though most of the content was banged in a year or so ago (or more, maybe) to give a this-kind-of-blurb feel, some or all of which would be replaced with current and agreed blurb before the thing went live. You might argue that the beta shouldn't have been unveiled without suitable text etc. But I would say: well done to the people who've made the effort and put the beta together. It's been mentioned that the whole thing is downloadable and open to contributions, so maybe that's the way forward for you: make or implement your suggestions and send them back to the maintainers. TJG -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: search multiple dictionaries efficiently?
George Sakkis wrote: It's not the *most* efficient way because value is looked up twice if it is contained in the dictionary; if you absolutely need it to be as efficient as possible and can't figure it out on your own, ask again and someone will help you out. How do you *know* it is not the *most* efficient way? Have you tried timing different ways of approaching this problem and found that looking up the value twice is slow? I've tried timing dictionary lookups in the past, and the three obvious solutions roughly come out as follows: try/except is fastest when the value is in the dictionary, but it is a *lot* slower if the exception gets thrown. If missing values are a very rare occurrence this might be a good way to do it, but usually the code doesn't read as well so its best to avoid. [0.26/4.11] Test with the 'in' operator and then retrieving the value is the fastest solution when the value isn't in the dictionary (it only does a single lookup then), and is still fast when it is. [0.36/0.2] Using the get method of the dictionary with a default value to be retrieved if the key is not present is slower than using the 'in' operator in all cases (it does beat try/except when an exception is thrown) [0.49/0.54] The numbers above are the times produced in each case for a key present/key missing using a simple test with timeit.py. Part of the reason, BTW, that calling d.get(key,default) is slow is that is also requires two dictionary lookups: one to find the get method and then another to access the key in the dictionary, plus it has other overheads (a method call) which testget avoids. These figures could of course be invalidated if the actual use is too far from the simple string lookup I tried. For example if the key has a slow hash function saving the second lookup would be worthwhile. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 10060, 'Operation timed out'
can u please modify the script that i have posted with your suggestion, it will help me to a certain extent. Thanks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Tim N. van der Leeuw wrote: Shalabh, You've managed very well to express the same things I feel about the new Python website. What I especially dislike about the new website are the flashy pictures on the front-page with no content and no purpose -- purely boasting but nothing to back up your claims. (I wouldn't mind some sleek pictures there if they weren't desperatly trying to advertise success-stories but instead would link to real content!) I do like to overall look-and-feel of the beta site but I hope the bad bits get fixed before launch! What we are desperately missing is people to roll up their sleeves and help with the process of content conversion and its onward maintenance. The current beta site content is *far* from complete, and nobody is married to the particular images on the front-page mock-up (which is what that is). The intention of the new system is to allow a much larger group of people to assist in generating and maintaining the content. If we (the PSF) don't succeed in recruiting content maintainers then the only return on the time and money that's been spent will be a new look. Remarks about the current content of the beta site are inappropriate. If you want Python success stories to publicize there are plenty of them at http://www.pythonology.org/success The content needs responsible people to maintain it, not a slagging before it's complete! regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: search multiple dictionaries efficiently?
Duncan Booth wrote: Test with the 'in' operator and then retrieving the value is the fastest solution when the value isn't in the dictionary (it only does a single lookup then), and is still fast when it is. [0.36/0.2] Using the get method of the dictionary with a default value to be retrieved if the key is not present is slower than using the 'in' operator in all cases (it does beat try/except when an exception is thrown) [0.49/0.54] Assuming those statistics are replicatable, it's quite unfortunate that the obvious and concise way to do things works out more slowly than the approach that you'd expect to take twice as long. Thankfully there doesn't seem to be too many of these problems in Python. -- Ben Sizer -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Arithmetic sequences in Python
Op 2006-01-16, Gregory Petrosyan schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Please visit http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0204.html first. As you can see, PEP 204 was rejected, mostly because of not-so-obvious syntax. But IMO the idea behind this pep is very nice. So, maybe there's a reason to adopt slightly modified Haskell's syntax? Something like [1,3..10] -- [1,3,5,7,9] (1,3..10) -- same values as above, but return generator instead of list [1..10] -- [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10] (1 ..)-- 'infinite' generator that yield 1,2,3 and so on (-3,-5 ..) -- 'infinite' generator that yield -3,-5,-7 and so on So, 1) [] means list, () means generator 2) the start is required, step and end are optional. Also, this can be nicely integrated with enumerations (if they will appear in python). Haskell is also example of such integration. With some abuse of the language one can already do a number of things in python2.4 now. import sys from types import SliceType class vslice(object): def __init__(self, fun): self.fun = fun def __getitem__(self, inx): if not isinstance(inx, tuple): inx = inx, return self.fun(*inx) @vslice def rnglst(*arg): lst = [] for el in arg: if type(el) is SliceType: start = el.start or 0 stop = el.stop or sys.maxint step = el.step or 1 if step 0: while start stop: lst.append(start) start += step else: while start stop: lst.append(start) start += step else: lst.append(el) return lst rnglst[3,4,5] -- [3, 4, 5] rnglst[1, 2:8] -- [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7] rnglst[3:9:2, 21:6:-3] -- [3, 5, 7, 21, 18, 15, 12, 9] -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Shalabh Chaturvedi wrote: Hm. Am I the only one not particularly impressed? no. the design is alright (if a bit too bland business), but the little I've seen of the information architecture and the backend infrastructure feels like 1998 (which, I suppose, was when the project started...) on the other hand, I haven't tracked the discussions that resulted in the current architecture, so I'm probably missing something... /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Find and slice problem
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, been going around in circles with this so I hope you can help! My current situation is I'm using Grinder and Jython to test pages, but the log on process is giving me some headaches. After entering the correct username and password, you then need to enter 3 characters from the security phrase. I'm attempting to read the HTML to find out with characters I need (e.g. 1st, 3rd and 6th char) then look up those values in the security phrase, but I'm getting stuck on the following function: code def getValue(page,delimEnd) : EndVar = page.find(delimEnd) thisVar = page[EndVar-1:EndVar] return thisVar /code What I'm attemping to pass in is some multiline HTML(above) and pick up the proceeding character, but it seems to be reading from the end of the HTML instead! page.find(delimEnd) returns -1 if delimEnd is not found, and after that you take page[-2:-1], i.e. second last character. So you could add a test for that, if EndVar == -1 etc. but I recommend using page.index(delimEnd) which raises an error if delimEnd is not found. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 10060, 'Operation timed out'
Sumit Acharya wrote:
can u please modify the script that i have posted with your suggestion,
it will help me to a certain extent.
Thanks
from ftplib import FTP
import time
import sys
import socket
socket.setdefaulttimeout(60)
host = sys.argv[1]
port = sys.argv[2]
for x in range(1000):
try:
y = time.time()
ftp = FTP()
ftp.connect(host,port)
ftp.login('a','a')
try:
print ftp.sendcmd('pass x')
except:
print sys.exc_value
ftp.close()
except:
print sys.exc_value
r = time.time()
print Timeout %d %d %((r-y),x)
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Tim Golden wrote: [...] You might argue that the beta shouldn't have been unveiled without suitable text etc. But I would say: well done to the people who've made the effort and put the beta together. It's been mentioned that the whole thing is downloadable and open to contributions, so maybe that's the way forward for you: make or implement your suggestions and send them back to the maintainers. Your surmise is correct, Tim. Anyone wishing to get involved will also have the joy of working on a subversion-maintained master - this is remarkably easy in Windows using Tortoise as well as through the hair-shirt commands line preferred by Linux types :-) Checkins to subversion cause an automated update in the site content. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Checkins to subversion cause an automated update in the site content. Good :) What's the subversion URL where I can fetch the site? ;) regards, --Tim -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Tim N. van der Leeuw wrote: Checkins to subversion cause an automated update in the site content. Good :) What's the subversion URL where I can fetch the site? ;) The URL is https://svn.python.org/www/trunk/beta.python.org but I don't know whether anonymous access is enabled. Maybe you can let me know ... You'll also need the notes from http://psf.pollenation.net/cgi-bin/trac.cgi regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
[Steve Holden] | https://svn.python.org/www/trunk/beta.python.org | but I don't know whether anonymous access is enabled. Maybe you can let |me know ... Doesn't look like it. Asking me for authentication. TJG -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Steve, My apologies if this apppeared to be 'slagging'. I was trying to give some feedback but I do realize that I don't have anything better to offer yet to replace the pictures I dislike. Perhaps I should have withheld my criticisms until I could offer an alternative. (Still thinking about what could be there instead of those 3 pictures. But I'd like there to be some actual real Python content, or links to events from the Python Events Calender; or perhaps links to large python projects like Zope -- something that links to the major parts of Python. Perhaps 1 picture that links to Python Web Development including things like Zope, Django, etc; another picture that links to a page giving overview of major IDEs for Python; and 3d picture that links to page with Python Event calender... Something along those lines. But I don't have any graphics for you.) regards, --Tim -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Tim N. van der Leeuw wrote: Steve, My apologies if this apppeared to be 'slagging'. I was trying to give some feedback but I do realize that I don't have anything better to offer yet to replace the pictures I dislike. That's absolutely fine, the redevelopment of the site is intended to be an open process. I just didn't want creativity wasted in criticizing content that was only there as a placeholder. You also gave me a chance to recruit further content editors, which is something we really need to do. Perhaps I should have withheld my criticisms until I could offer an alternative. (Still thinking about what could be there instead of those 3 pictures. But I'd like there to be some actual real Python content, or links to events from the Python Events Calender; or perhaps links to large python projects like Zope -- something that links to the major parts of Python. Perhaps 1 picture that links to Python Web Development including things like Zope, Django, etc; another picture that links to a page giving overview of major IDEs for Python; and 3d picture that links to page with Python Event calender... Something along those lines. But I don't have any graphics for you.) Keep thinking! regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Tim Golden wrote: [Steve Holden] | https://svn.python.org/www/trunk/beta.python.org | but I don't know whether anonymous access is enabled. Maybe you can let |me know ... Doesn't look like it. Asking me for authentication. Rats, thanks for letting me know. As a first step I'd like to open up anonymous access to both the content and the site generation software, so that people can experiment with local content generation. Then once someone knows how to use the system they can get a login for the SVN system and start editing site content. I'll get back to the list with instructions ASAP. It may take a while due to inter-continental time differences and general overwork. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
I need to supply a username/password before I can look at the SVN repository in my webbrowser; I tried username/pwd 'anonymous' but that don't work. cheers, --Tim -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: magical expanding hash
On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:00:00 -0700, Steven Bethard wrote:
Steve Holden wrote:
Steven Bethard wrote:
Agreed. I really hope that Python 3.0 applies Raymond Hettinger's
suggestion Improved default value logic for Dictionaries from
http://wiki.python.org/moin/Python3%2e0Suggestions
This would allow you to make the setdefault() call only once, instead
of on every lookup:
class meh(dict):
def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
super(meh, self).__init__(*args, **kwargs)
self.setdefault(function=meh)
STeVe
In fact, why not go one better and also add a default keyword
parameter to dict()?
It's not backwards compatible:
dict(default=4)
{'default': 4}
And I use the **kwargs form of the dict constructor often enough to hope
that it doesn't go away in Python 3.0.
I don't like the idea of all dicts having default values. Sometimes you
don't want a default value, you want an exception when the key isn't in
the dict.
And even if you do want defaults, sometimes you want a default which is
global to the dict, and sometimes you want a default which depends on the
key. More of a missing value than a default.
I vote to leave dict just as it is, and add a subclass, either in a module
or as a built in (I'm not fussed either way) for dicts-with-defaults.
--
Steven.
--
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Re: New Python.org website ?
Tim N. van der Leeuw schreef: Shalabh, You've managed very well to express the same things I feel about the new Python website. FWIW, I don't like the new site at all. It tries to look slick (but fails to do so in my opinion), and buries the useful information in all kinds of misplaced eye candy. In fact I like the old one better: short, clear and to the point. -- If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood on the shoulders of giants. -- Isaac Newton Roel Schroeven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Being unjust
I'd be interested in what people think about bundling one of the diverse Python webframeworks with the Python distribution which will be just there as like Tcl/Tk+Tkinter for GUI-programming. Its not that I don't trust people to make qualified decisions on their own or that I actually believe in one single best solution. It's more a symbolic action of bundling forces and attention. Kay -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: check to see if value can be an integer instead of string
On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:02:52 -0800, nephish wrote: Hello there, i need a way to check to see if a certain value can be an integer. I have looked at is int(), but what is comming out is a string that may be an integer. Not in Python it isn't. int(value) returns an int, not a string. i mean, it will be formatted as a string, but i need to know if it is possible to be expressed as an integer. like this var = some var passed to my script if var can be an integer : do this else: change it to an integer and do something else with it. So, let's see if I understand your problem: if var can be an integer, you do this (whatever this is). If var *can't* be an integer, you change it to an integer anyway. whats the best way to do this ? try: int(var) except ValueError: raise else: do_this() Or even simpler: int(var) do_this() -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Being unjust
Kay Schluehr wrote: I'd be interested in what people think about bundling one of the diverse Python webframeworks with the Python distribution which will be just there as like Tcl/Tk+Tkinter for GUI-programming. if you can find one that's relatively stable, simple enough to enable beginners to do simple things with just a little python code, can do simple stuff without needing a full-blown DB, and can run as an ordinary CGI if necessary, I'm definitely +1. (hmm. maybe web.py fits the spec? but that's more a library than a frame- work, of course...) /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: On Numbers
On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:34:40 +, Tom Anderson wrote: ... So I don't really know what point you are making. What solution(s) for 1**0.5 were you expecting? He's probably getting at the fact that if you're dealing with complex numbers, square root get a lot more complicated: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/SquareRoot.html But still, that doesn't change the fact that x**0.5 as is meant here is the principal (positive) real square root, and that can be true whether your hierarchy of numeric types includes a complex type or not. Er, actually, i meant to write -1, but evidently missed a key, and failed to check what i'd written. Since exponentiation has higher priority than negation, -1**0.5 is -1.0 in both Python and ordinary mathematics. Perhaps you meant to write (-1)**0.5, in which case Python developers have a decision to make: should it assume real-valued maths unless explicitly told differently, and hence raise an exception, or coerce the result to complex? In this case, Python raises an exception, as it should, unless you explicitly uses complex numbers. That's the best behaviour for the majority of people: most people don't even know what complex numbers are, let alone want to deal with them in their code. Python, after all, is not Mathematica. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Being unjust
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 03:27:56 -0800, Kay Schluehr wrote: I'd be interested in what people think about bundling one of the diverse Python webframeworks with the Python distribution which will be just there as like Tcl/Tk+Tkinter for GUI-programming. Its not that I don't trust people to make qualified decisions on their own or that I actually believe in one single best solution. It's more a symbolic action of bundling forces and attention. So long as I don't have to listen to the hordes of people arguing about which framework gets preferred status, it sounds like a good move to me. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: On Numbers
Steven D'Aprano wrote: Perhaps you meant to write (-1)**0.5, in which case Python developers have a decision to make: should it assume real-valued maths unless explicitly told differently, and hence raise an exception, or coerce the result to complex? In this case, Python raises an exception, as it should, unless you explicitly uses complex numbers. That's the best behaviour for the majority of people: most people don't even know what complex numbers are, let alone want to deal with them in their code. Python, after all, is not Mathematica. Note that cmath.sqrt returns the expected complex result for cmath.sqrt(-1.0). -- Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, CA, USA 37 20 N 121 53 W AIM erikmaxfrancis Our purpose is to make the agony of decision-making so intense that you can escape only by thinking. -- Fred W. Friendly -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Being unjust
Fredrik Lundh wrote: Kay Schluehr wrote: I'd be interested in what people think about bundling one of the diverse Python webframeworks with the Python distribution which will be just there as like Tcl/Tk+Tkinter for GUI-programming. if you can find one that's relatively stable, simple enough to enable beginners to do simple things with just a little python code, can do simple stuff without needing a full-blown DB, and can run as an ordinary CGI if necessary, I'm definitely +1. (hmm. maybe web.py fits the spec? but that's more a library than a frame- work, of course...) web.py has the great advantage that (allegedly) you can migrate apps from CGI to FastCGI, mod_python, WSGI. It hardly counts as stable of course - having just been released. +1 on including it though ;-) To be fair, it would be better to incldue a library rather than a framework in the standard library. There are a few fundamental philosophy differences in web apps which makes it a bit of a religious war. This means getting something into the standard library is likely to be the cause of intractable discussions. *sigh* I think Ian Bickings approach (ius this WSGI or paste ??) is to develop a framework that componentizes the elements of web applications. (I geuss it's a protocol as much as a framework). This means that you're not locked into design decisions at the start of the game - and components developed that follow the protocol can be easily re-used in other projects. Unfortuantely they (he ?) have made the API a blocking API (WSGI at least is blocking) - this means it can't be used without threads. So there is still a fundamental philosophy question here. Other frameworks like Django and turbogears can't (as easily) share parts of applications designed for the other framework. It would be very difficult to jsutify including one over the other to include in the standard library. All the best, Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
making objects unassignable read-only (especially when extending)
Hi, can I make an object read-only, so that x = new_value fails (and x keeps it's orginal value)? This would be especially of interest for me for an object created by a c extension. -- Johannes -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Newcomer question wrt variable scope/namespaces
Florian Daniel Otel wrote: Do I understand it correctly that actually the rule has to be refined as pertaining to the (so called) immutable types (like e.g. integers, tuples/strings) whereas lists and dictionaries are mutable types and the said scoping rule does not apply ? No! The only difference between mutable and immutable objects are that the value of mutable objects can be changed after object creation. The thing you need to understand is how variables, objects and assignments work in Python! We are always dealing with references to objects in Python. In e.g. C, the code int c; c=1; c=2; roughly means: Make a place for an integer in memory, and let's refer to that place as c. Then place the value 1 in c. Finally, replace the value 1 with the value 2 in c. This isn't at all how Python works. I think of C variables as differently shaped (typed) boxes with a label glued onto the side, but I think of Python variables as a tag or label tied to a string (string as in thin rope, not text). The other end of that string is tied to an object in a big, shared storage room. C assignments mean that you make a copy of some data and put in a box, discarding whatever was previously in that box. Python assignment means that you untie a string from an object and tie it to another (possibly newly created) object. When an object no longer has any strings attached, it's (usually) considered to be garbage. So, in Python, c=1; c=2 means that you have a variable (or name) called c in the current namespace. That's not a place for some kind of object as in C, it's just a name that can be bound to some object in that shared storage room that we nerds call the heap. First, c will be bound to, or refer to, an integer object on the heap containing the value 1. Then c will be rebound to another object, 2. In C, you have your different boxes neatly stacked in various namespaces. In Python the boxes are all in one place, but your labels are neatly organized in various namespaces. You can make strings like this in C too, they are called pointers, but it's not automatic as in Python, and C pointers are much more difficult and error prone. So, returning to your question, scoping rules are just the same. The issue with mutable object are that they can be mutated. Different variables in different namespaces can refer to the same object. E.g. l = [1,2] def addToList1(aList, value): ... aList.append(value) ... return aList ... def addToList2(aList, value): ... newList = aList + [value] ... return newList ... print l [1, 2] print id(l) 182894638800 l1=addToList1(l,3) print l, l1 [1, 2, 3] [1, 2, 3] print id(l), id(l1) 182894638800 182894638800 l2=addToList2(l,4) print l, l2 [1, 2, 3] [1, 2, 3, 4] print id(l), id(l2) 182894638800 182894638736 You see? Calling addToList1 caused the list object that was passed in to be modified. This modification is obviously seen by all variables that are bound to that object, whatever namespace they exist in. Calling addToList2 doesn't cause any modification of the objects that the parameters are bound to. Instead a new object is created. With immutable objects, you can't possibly do something along the lines of addToList1. This means that if x is bound to an immutable object, x will always have the same value before and after a call to f(x), whatever code function f contains. If x is mutable, you have no such guarantees. It depends on f... It's not only variables that can be bound to objects. E.g: l1 = [] l2 = [l1] t1 = [l1] print l1, l2, t1 [] [[]] [[]] t1[0].append(1) print l1, l2, t1 [1] [[1]] [[1]] l1, position 0 in l2 and position 0 in t1 are all bound to the same object, an initially empty list. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Debugging python 2.2 code with Pydev
It's all in the title. Is there a way (using Pydev) to debug code written for and executed by python 2.2 ? I have only the 2.2 interpreter installed. The run command works fine but the debugger tells me : Unexpected error setting up the debugger. (More info below). I'm working under windowsXP with Eclipse 3.1 and PyDev 0.9.8.7. I can install another interpreter if needed but the program I'm working on must still be executed by 2.2 Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you, Coujou -- Traceback (most recent call last): File C:\Program Files\eclipse\plugins\org.python.pydev.debug_0.9.8.7\pysrc\pydevd.py, line 68, in ? import pydevd_vars File C:\Program Files\eclipse\plugins\org.python.pydev.debug_0.9.8.7\pysrc\pydevd_vars.py, line 38, in ? from org.python import core ImportError: No module named org.python -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
extending python: which python code calls the c iterator methods?
Hello, when extending python there are type methods tp_iter and tp_iternext. Which python code calls the c iterator methods? -- Johannes -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
[OT] Nit: please don't user it's unless you can substitute it is without changing your inteded meaning.
Typos happen to all of us, but in case you hadn't realized what it's is a contraction for (it is), now you do, and you can save yourself further embarrassment (assuming you care ;-). If your friends won't tell you, who will ;-) Write the contraction it's only when you want its meaning to be it is, otherwise it's wrong ;-) OTOH, how does one punctuate the posessive of a word per se? E.g., the first letter of it is i, but can one write that as it's first letter is i, or it's first letter is i ? ;-) And how many its (?) are there in the previous sentence? I wonder if Eats Leaves and Shoots (a book on punctuation) has something on that. (vs, Eats, Leaves, and Shoots -- panda vs gunslinger). Regards, Bengt Richter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Can a simple a==b 'hang' in and endless loop?
In the process of learning about some deeper details of Python I am curious if it is possible to write a 'prefix' code assigning to a and b something special, so, that Python gets trapped in an endless loop in a line with: if a==b: print 'OK' I mean, it would be of much help to me on my way to understanding Python to know how such prefix code leading to an endless loop can look like and if it is eventually not possible to write such code, to know why it is not possible? My own first rough idea was to create generators which never end and use them in the '==' comparison, but I have not well understood how to write and use generators yet, so I expect from studying this special case to come to some enlightenment. Claudio -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: making objects unassignable read-only (especially when extending)
On 18 Jan 2006 11:59:23 GMT, Johannes Zellner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, can I make an object read-only, so that x = new_value fails (and x keeps it's orginal value)? This works for me: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/2b1785397358ff90 -- Cheers, Simon B, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: chi-squared tests in python?
On 17 Jan 2006, at 20:32, Rob Cowie wrote: Matthew ps: given the batteries included philosphy, there's a remarkable dearth of stats in python... I think Chi^2 tests fall distinctly in the third-party library category, myself. I don't know... I've often thought the Standard Library should include a stats package. Coming from the scientific community I agree. A relatively shallow selection of standard statistical methods would be very useful to avoid requiring people to install a relatively large external package (e.g. scipy) for a few simple stats methods. cheers, Michael -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can a simple a==b 'hang' in and endless loop?
Claudio Grondi wrote: In the process of learning about some deeper details of Python I am curious if it is possible to write a 'prefix' code assigning to a and b something special, so, that Python gets trapped in an endless loop in a line with: if a==b: print 'OK' I mean, it would be of much help to me on my way to understanding Python to know how such prefix code leading to an endless loop can look like since == can be overridden by the objects involved, == can do anything: http://docs.python.org/ref/customization.html __lt__ __div__ F __gt__ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Nit: please don't user it's unless you can substitute it is without changing your inteded meaning.
Bengt Richter wrote: Typos happen to all of us, but in case you hadn't realized what it's is a contraction for (it is), now you do, and you can save yourself further embarrassment (assuming you care ;-). If your friends won't tell you, who will ;-) Making grammatical errors in the subject of a post on gramamtical errors must be embarrasing. ;-) Write the contraction it's only when you want its meaning to be it is, otherwise it's wrong ;-) OTOH, how does one punctuate the posessive of a word per se? E.g., the first letter of it is i, but can one write that as it's first letter is i, or it's first letter is i ? ;-) And how many its (?) are there in the previous sentence? Don't recall an answer to this one in Eats, Shoots and Leaves. The first one is clearer : it's first letter is i All the best, Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk I wonder if Eats Leaves and Shoots (a book on punctuation) has something on that. (vs, Eats, Leaves, and Shoots -- panda vs gunslinger). Regards, Bengt Richter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: check to see if value can be an integer instead of string
it isn't really that i will want to change it to an integer anyway. the script uses a table to reference a value to a key, if the key is a group of letters, that code tells the script to do something. if the value is a number, it means an equipment failure. The thing is, all the values come out as strings (they are read from a text file). so what you put first with the try/except looks like my best answer. thanks, shawn -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: On Numbers
Erik Max Francis wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: Perhaps you meant to write (-1)**0.5, in which case Python developers have a decision to make: should it assume real-valued maths unless explicitly told differently, and hence raise an exception, or coerce the result to complex? In this case, Python raises an exception, as it should, unless you explicitly uses complex numbers. That's the best behaviour for the majority of people: most people don't even know what complex numbers are, let alone want to deal with them in their code. Python, after all, is not Mathematica. Note that cmath.sqrt returns the expected complex result for cmath.sqrt(-1.0). import cmath cmath.sqrt(-1) 1j Indeed. But even exponentiation can come respectably close: (-1+0j)**0.5 (6.123233995736766e-17+1j) regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Nit: please don't user it's unless you can substitute it iswithout changing your inteded meaning.
Fuzzyman wrote: Making grammatical errors in the subject of a post on gramamtical errors must be embarrasing. ;-) http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-corrections /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: extending python: which python code calls the c iterator methods?
Johannes Zellner wrote: when extending python there are type methods tp_iter and tp_iternext. Which python code calls the c iterator methods? iter(obj), for-in obj, etc. /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Shalabh Chaturvedi wrote: Hm. Am I the only one not particularly impressed? Sure the front page is 'slick' but a few clicks reveal a fairly shallow facade of marketing material, with no real content. In general gives the impression of 'phony' company trying to make a big impression. Most good non-tech managers are very wary of such organizations/companies. Well apart from the front page and a couple of pages providing content specific to different types of usersm the whole site is the same as it was before. Do you have a problem with marketing python or with the content of the python site? Could you expand on why you think the beta site looks 'phony'? My gripes with the whole thing: 1. Learn why.., Learn why.., Learn more..? Unless each one takes you directly to a great success story, these should be removed. These will link directly to success stories. 2. There is no (published) Python success story for Google. So link to google.com looks phony. What does 'Google written in Python' mean anyway? The google.com server is Python? One backend script is in Python? Without more information, this just seems likes a shameless attempt to create credibility. (Sure I know Google uses Python extensively, but I'm not the one who needs to be sold on Python). Python has been an important part of Google since the beginning, and remains so as the system grows and evolves. Today dozens of Google engineers use Python, and we're looking for more people with skills in this language. said Peter Norvig, director of search quality at Google, Inc. thats what it says on the old site right at the top of the page... 3. What is PyXP? Windows XP? Extreme Programming? Again, there is nothing underneath. Where is the NASA success story? That particular graphic will probably be updated. The Nasa success story is at http://www.python.org/Quotes.html 4. I have a lot of respect for GvR, but there ought to be more advertising of the fact that the language is not supported by just one person. There is an great dev team behind it and a stable PSF organization. Anyone reading 'developed by one person' is not left with the fuzzy feeling of a mature, well-supported product that is here to stay. So you think we should add some copy that creates a more positive impression of python? Thanks for your suggestion to rewrite the copy regarding the team behind python. Could you come up with some alternative for this? 5. A 'more..' link under Written in Python is sorely missing. It appears only 5-6 apps are written in Python. Where is a link to the cheese shop? Yep... at the moment content is being migrated across. If you want to add your assistance it would be of great benefit. Managers are looking for maturity, stability, support and unique strengths, not coolness or flashy sites (though presentation definitely helps). Could you tell me what about the site makes you think it looks 'cool' or 'flashy'? Hopefully most of these will get fixed as people 'convert' the site and fill in content. I would urge people to do some 'user' testing - get persons not very familiar with Python and get their honest opinion on the site. We have done... The feedback was that some pictures would help engage people who view the website for the first time. This was especially true of non-programmers who may be assessing python as part of a business decition (who will probably not get further than the home page). Most developers tended to want to jump straight into bookmarked parts of the site or just check the updated news. People wanting to learn about python would try to find a 'for beginners' link (hence the prominence of this). Currently, it is more important to get existing copy across than create the few new pages that are needed to support the home page. If we had more volunteers then we could write this new content sooner. A summary of questions whose answers may help us: Do you have a problem with the way we are trying to 'market' python? Which content in particular do you have an objection to? Could you expand on why you think the beta site looks 'phony'? Could you tell me what about the site makes you think it looks 'cool' or 'flashy'? Could you come up with some alternative for the intro copy about python? Tim Parkin -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Tim N. van der Leeuw wrote: Shalabh, You've managed very well to express the same things I feel about the new Python website. What I especially dislike about the new website are the flashy pictures on the front-page with no content and no purpose -- purely boasting but nothing to back up your claims. Thats because the content hasn't been written yet. We're concentrating on getting the existing copy over first. (I wouldn't mind some sleek pictures there if they weren't desperatly trying to advertise success-stories but instead would link to real content!) I do like to overall look-and-feel of the beta site but I hope the bad bits get fixed before launch! Can you give me a list of bad bits to fix (or you could add them to the trac site at psf.pollenation.net) Tim -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: On Numbers
Steve Holden wrote: import cmath cmath.sqrt(-1) 1j Indeed. But even exponentiation can come respectably close: (-1+0j)**0.5 (6.123233995736766e-17+1j) Oh, no doubt. I was just pointing out that cmath.sqrt is what you want if you really do want the complex result rather than the principal real one. -- Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, CA, USA 37 20 N 121 53 W AIM erikmaxfrancis Dear World: I am leaving because I am bored. -- George Sanders (in his suicide note) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 10060, 'Operation timed out'
Hi Steve, It didnt help, i am getting same error. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Roel Schroeven wrote: Tim N. van der Leeuw schreef: Shalabh, You've managed very well to express the same things I feel about the new Python website. FWIW, I don't like the new site at all. It tries to look slick (but fails to do so in my opinion), and buries the useful information in all kinds of misplaced eye candy. In fact I like the old one better: short, clear and to the point. Can you make some specific comments about which 'eye candy' that you find objectionable and which parts of the navigation structure you find confusing? Tim -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
mod_python apache directives
Hello. I want to create a catch-all python script, that gets called for any file request in a certain directory. I thought this apache setup would do it, but it doesn't: Directory /Users/jake/www/mydir SetHandler mod_python PythonHandler handler PythonDebug On Options -MultiViews -Indexes /Directory For example, I have a handler.py in that directory, but when I go to the url 'http://127.0.0.1/mydir/handler.py', it delivers the text of handler.py - not my intention. And if I enter any other filename, it gives me a 404 Not found. Does anyone know how to do what I'm trying to do? - Jake -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Newcomer question wrt variable scope/namespaces
Mike, Gary, Magnus First of all, thanks to you all for the clarifications. On 1/14/06, Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Python variables are just names. They refer to (are bound to) objects. An assignment statement doesn't change a value. It rebinds the variable (or lvalue) to the value on the right side of the statement. The Python rule is that you can only bind a local variable or a variable declared global. It doesn't say anything at all about what you can do to the objects so bound. Based on Mike explanation and Gary and Magnus illustrative examples (and a perusal of the Chapter 4 from my current bible -- Python in a Nutshell) I now understood the way Python handles varialbles, objects (mutable or not) and the bindings between the two. As Mike figured it out, coming from a low-level language (e.g. C, where call by value and call by reference are like nightday and memory mngmnt is to be handled explicitely) was a bit of a challenge. Even if I am not exactly new to programming it wasn't quite obvious in the first place how Python handles the mapping btw lvalues and rvalues (the s.c. variable binding) and how object and (respectively) variable scoping works. One can only wish that various python texts (like e.g. the official Python tutorial) would be more forthcoming on this fundamental paradigm shift. Anyway, thanks Mike, Gary and Magnus for the very useful hints and illustrations. Florian -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: New Python.org website ?
Hi Tim, -Original Message- From: Tim Parkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: woensdag 18 januari 2006 13:45 That sounds fine.. I think having a link to a high profile user of python would be very useful though. I agree the XP link is a bit shite. Hopefully we'd get the photos and links to success stories/events/software changing every now and again.. I think that in general, I don't like the fact that links to high-profile users are featured so prominently. That row of pictures there looks good to me 'as such' but linking there to 'success stories' feels, dunno, perhaps a bit cheesy to me. (That might be just my dutch upbringing) I would certainly want to see such links somewhere on the front page, just not so prominently. how about 1) High profile user of Python 2) Link to upcoming python event 3) Link to web development uses of python the only problem is 1) people will argue over which user of python to put up 2) This will probably just be pycon and europython.. which is no bad thing.. until we get more than two conferences at similar times.. which one should we show? 3) python isn't just about web development.. Suffice it to say we'll have some content and the example images will change every now and again. btw do you have a problem with using nasa or astrazeneca as example high profile users? As I said, I don't like them. We're not a commercial company trying to promote itself to potential buyers. But that's too a large degree a matter of taste. I do actually think, though, that if the Python website *is* going to feature such big names with such prominence, some sort of approval from these organizations should be requested? That they don't mind being used a a Python reference story? About what could be there... Link to the even calender, or recent/upcoming event.. That is one to stay, I think. I think it would be good to have a link there too development environments that can be used for Python: editors, debuggers, IDEs / IDE extenstions, etc A third item could perhaps be a link to the Python Package Index -- another thing that Python developers are likely to need. These things are, of course, rather developer-centered (well, Python-user centered...) Being a software developer that uses Python, I wouldn't really know what else to put there ;-) But many people might have other things they wish to put in the centre of attention on the front page. Tim Regards, --Tim -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Puzzled by py.test output
I'm seeing a strange difference between error reporting on local versus global variables, when using py.test. Upon error, the actual value of a local is reported, but not of a global. Does anyone know why? I'm using the latest development version of py.test (from subversion). Example code in file test.py: -- def test_h(): h = 0 assert h == 1 g = 0 def test_g(): assert g == 1 -- py.test output: = test process starts testing-mode: inprocess executable: /usr/local/bin/python (2.4.2-final-0) using py lib: /usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/py rev unknown test.py[2] FF __ _ entrypoint: test_h __ def test_h(): h = 0 E assert h == 1 assert 0 == 1 [/home/jand/project/myhdl/example/cookbook/stopwatch/test.py:3] _ entrypoint: test_g __ def test_g(): E assert g == 1 assert g == 1 [/home/jand/project/myhdl/example/cookbook/stopwatch/test.py:7] _ == tests finished: 2 failed in 0.02 seconds == Regards, Jan -- Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium From Python to silicon: http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Nit: please don't user it's unless you can substitute it is without changing your inteded meaning.
The pronominal possessives hers, its, theirs, yours, and oneself have no apostrophe. Strunk White, The Elements of Style. Section II.1 The Elements is a classic masterpiece of concision and lucidity, unlike Eats, Shoots, Sells Books, and Leaves. rpd -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Tim N. van der Leeuw wrote: Steve, My apologies if this apppeared to be 'slagging'. I was trying to give some feedback but I do realize that I don't have anything better to offer yet to replace the pictures I dislike. Perhaps I should have withheld my criticisms until I could offer an alternative. (Still thinking about what could be there instead of those 3 pictures. But I'd like there to be some actual real Python content, or links to events from the Python Events Calender; or perhaps links to large python projects like Zope -- something that links to the major parts of Python. Perhaps 1 picture that links to Python Web Development including things like Zope, Django, etc; another picture that links to a page giving overview of major IDEs for Python; and 3d picture that links to page with Python Event calender... Something along those lines. But I don't have any graphics for you.) That sounds fine.. I think having a link to a high profile user of python would be very useful though. I agree the XP link is a bit shite. Hopefully we'd get the photos and links to success stories/events/software changing every now and again.. how about 1) High profile user of Python 2) Link to upcoming python event 3) Link to web development uses of python the only problem is 1) people will argue over which user of python to put up 2) This will probably just be pycon and europython.. which is no bad thing.. until we get more than two conferences at similar times.. which one should we show? 3) python isn't just about web development.. Suffice it to say we'll have some content and the example images will change every now and again. btw do you have a problem with using nasa or astrazeneca as example high profile users? Tim -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Leeuw van der, Tim wrote: I think that in general, I don't like the fact that links to high-profile users are featured so prominently. That row of pictures there looks good to me 'as such' but linking there to 'success stories' feels, dunno, perhaps a bit cheesy to me. (That might be just my dutch upbringing) I would certainly want to see such links somewhere on the front page, just not so prominently. Possibly so... however in my experience, selling python to people is made a lot easier by being able to say 'look these guys are using it'. This may not help sell it to programmers, but as a businessman trying to sell my programming services, it's exceptionally important. btw do you have a problem with using nasa or astrazeneca as example high profile users? As I said, I don't like them. We're not a commercial company trying to promote itself to potential buyers. But that's too a large degree a matter of taste. Well I'd have to disagree with yout on one point.. 'We' may not be a commercial company (when you talk about python as a singular unit) but as python developers, we should be in the process of trying to 'sell' python wherever we can. Because we aren't a commercial company, our only 'sales' channels are the website and the developers/consultants that use python. (I'm talking about selling in the terms of 'promoting' or trying to persuade someone that using python is a good thing). I do actually think, though, that if the Python website *is* going to feature such big names with such prominence, some sort of approval from these organizations should be requested? That they don't mind being used a a Python reference story? The approval is already there (see pythonology success stories). About what could be there... Link to the even calender, or recent/upcoming event.. That is one to stay, I think. I think it would be good to have a link there too development environments that can be used for Python: editors, debuggers, IDEs / IDE extenstions, etc It's difficult to summarise this in a single image. The XP image was intended as a 'catch all' for the development environment. A different image and title would probably achieve better results but coming up with one or two words to sumarise that list is quite difficult. A third item could perhaps be a link to the Python Package Index -- another thing that Python developers are likely to need. The home page isn't intended to target existing python users.. and the home page photos are mostly targetted at the sort of people that respond well to photos. It's a dilemma that the home page has to serve two masters, however if we have a 'developer home page' which can be dedicated to development issues, news, planetpython links, package libraries etc, we would have a single page that developers could bookmark. The only alternative was to create a separate 'marketing python' website but it would just get ignored, especially by the people we really need to see the 'marketing' content. These things are, of course, rather developer-centered (well, Python-user centered...) Being a software developer that uses Python, I wouldn't really know what else to put there ;-) But many people might have other things they wish to put in the centre of atte Yep, Thats probably why a dedicated page for developers would make more sense. Tim p.s. thanks for the comments btw.. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: On Numbers
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:34:40 +, Tom Anderson wrote: So I don't really know what point you are making. What solution(s) for 1**0.5 were you expecting? He's probably getting at the fact that if you're dealing with complex numbers, square root get a lot more complicated: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/SquareRoot.html But still, that doesn't change the fact that x**0.5 as is meant here is the principal (positive) real square root, and that can be true whether your hierarchy of numeric types includes a complex type or not. Er, actually, i meant to write -1, but evidently missed a key, and failed to check what i'd written. Since exponentiation has higher priority than negation, -1**0.5 is -1.0 in both Python and ordinary mathematics. Perhaps you meant to write (-1)**0.5, Yes. [FX: bangs head on keyboard] I'm still getting this wrong after all these years. in which case Python developers have a decision to make: should it assume real-valued maths unless explicitly told differently, and hence raise an exception, or coerce the result to complex? Precisely. In this case, Python raises an exception, as it should, unless you explicitly uses complex numbers. That's the best behaviour for the majority of people: most people don't even know what complex numbers are, let alone want to deal with them in their code. Python, after all, is not Mathematica. I think i agree with you, as a matter of practical value. However, this does go against the whole numeric unification thing we were discussing. Hmm. What happens if i say (-1) ** (0.5+0j)? Ah, i get the right answer. Well, that's handy - it means i don't have to resort to cmath or sprinkle complex() calls all over the place for complex maths. tom -- Biochemistry is the study of carbon compounds that wriggle. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can a simple a==b 'hang' in and endless loop?
Steve Holden wrote: Claudio Grondi wrote: In the process of learning about some deeper details of Python I am curious if it is possible to write a 'prefix' code assigning to a and b something special, so, that Python gets trapped in an endless loop in a line with: if a==b: print 'OK' I mean, it would be of much help to me on my way to understanding Python to know how such prefix code leading to an endless loop can look like and if it is eventually not possible to write such code, to know why it is not possible? My own first rough idea was to create generators which never end and use them in the '==' comparison, but I have not well understood how to write and use generators yet, so I expect from studying this special case to come to some enlightenment. Well, you could try this: class thing: ... def __eq__(self, other): ... return other == self ... a = thing() b = thing() a == b Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? File stdin, line 3, in __eq__ File stdin, line 3, in __eq__ File stdin, line 3, in __eq__ ... File stdin, line 3, in __eq__ File stdin, line 3, in __eq__ RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded Was that what you meant? Or something more like: class thing: ... def __eq__(self, other): ... import time; time.sleep(100) ... a = thing() b = thing() a == b regards Steve Thanks for the quick reply. I see, that I have overseen, that as Fredrik also stated, one can directly manipulate __eq__() as the easiest way to achieve what I requested. To explain why I am not happy with it, I will try here to give some more background information. Sorry for not doing it directly, but as already stated I have forgot about the possibility to use __eq__(). In Python the built in '==' operator (when not manipulated in own code) behaves not as the '==' operator e.g. in C or Javascript, because it iterates over arrays (i.e. lists) doing many comparisons instead of comparing only two 'values'. Coming from C or Javascript one would expect '==' to compare the 'pointers' to the arrays and not to iterate over all elements of the lists. With the solution to the question above I intended to have an example of Python code which outcome is an endless loop and the problem causing it very hard to find if one thinks in terms of C or Javascript when considering lists (as arrays) and the function of '==' operator. Claudio -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Nit: please don't user it's unless you can substitute it is without changing your inteded meaning.
BartlebyScrivener wrote: The pronominal possessives hers, its, theirs, yours, and oneself have no apostrophe. Strunk White, The Elements of Style. Section II.1 The Elements is a classic masterpiece of concision and lucidity, unlike Eats, Shoots, Sells Books, and Leaves. Which is however eminently more readable, except perhaps for the overlong introduction... All the best, Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml rpd -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ldap passwd need help
I've got the python-ldap version 2.0.11 with python 2.4 under Linux I've got the ldap stuff working for groups, but now I'm trying to use it to change a user password. I get a return of 2 and no error messages but it does not change ldap. I've tried it with uid = 'joeblow' and with oldpw=whatever it was with the same result. Anyone know what I'm missing? class LdapUser: def __init__(self, uri=uri, binddn=BINDDN, password=): self.ldap = ldap.initialize(uri) self.ldap.simple_bind(binddn, password) def chg_pw(self,uid,oldpw,newpw): print self.ldap.passwd_s(uid,oldpw,newpw) if __name__==__main__: Ldap = LdapUser(password=secret) Ldap.chg_pw(uid=joeblow,ou=abc,ou=def,dc=ghi,dc=org,, new.pass) --- The information contained in this message may be privileged and / or confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and deleting the material from any computer. --- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 10060, 'Operation timed out'
Sumit Acharya wrote: Hi Steve, It didnt help, i am getting same error. After 20 seconds or 60? regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Convert Active Directory Object to string
Hi Fredrik! I think this will help me. I just have to do the same for danish encoding and may be some further encondings... Thanks! Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can a simple a==b 'hang' in and endless loop?
Claudio Grondi wrote:
[snip..]
Thanks for the quick reply.
I see, that I have overseen, that as Fredrik also stated, one can
directly manipulate __eq__() as the easiest way to achieve what I
requested.
To explain why I am not happy with it, I will try here to give some more
background information. Sorry for not doing it directly, but as already
stated I have forgot about the possibility to use __eq__().
In Python the built in '==' operator (when not manipulated in own code)
behaves not as the '==' operator e.g. in C or Javascript, because it
iterates over arrays (i.e. lists) doing many comparisons instead of
comparing only two 'values'. Coming from C or Javascript one would
expect '==' to compare the 'pointers' to the arrays and not to iterate
over all elements of the lists.
In Python the equality operator ('==') compares values. For sequence
and mapping type objects this can be a (relatively) expensive
operation.
You are probably looking for the identity operator which just
(effectively) compares pointers ('is').
a is b
does more what you would expect.
This is a better system than the ones you describe. :-)
All the best,
Fuzzyman
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml
With the solution to the question above I intended to have an example of
Python code which outcome is an endless loop and the problem causing it
very hard to find if one thinks in terms of C or Javascript when
considering lists (as arrays) and the function of '==' operator.
Claudio
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Converting TIFF files to PDF and/or JPEG
Hmm, does anyone know if there is a way to uncompress Tiff files in python itself without having to make an os call. This is because the script is kind of supposed to run on windows also... Sophie. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] Nit: please don't user it's unless you can substitute it is without changing your inteded meaning.
Bengt Richter wrote: Typos happen to all of us, but in case you hadn't realized what it's is a contraction for (it is), now you do, and you can save yourself further embarrassment (assuming you care ;-). If your friends won't tell you, who will ;-) Maybe we can also hold forth on which vs. that, proper use of I versus me (usually the opposite of what many do), each vs. all, and when to use whom. Also throw in the old stand-bys they're and their and other homonyms, but consider that often the mistake is not cause by a poor grasp of grammar but simply by writing too quickly, as one sometimes hears the words incorrectly in one's mind as one types, and then not proofreading adequately. (That's my excuse: I always catch their swapped with they're when proofreading, but I do sometimes use the wrong one when I write quickly.) Of course, even the best of us make such mistakes, and holding everyone to task for it is probably not going to help. This is a problem which only constant and instrusive reminders would cure, and the cure would be far worse than the disease. OTOH, how does one punctuate the posessive of a word per se? E.g., the first letter of it is i, but can one write that as it's first letter is i, or it's first letter is i ? ;-) When a construction is awkward, pick a different one. '''The first letter of the word it is i''' should be just fine. I wonder if Eats Leaves and Shoots (a book on punctuation) has something on that. (vs, Eats, Leaves, and Shoots -- panda vs gunslinger). Eats Shoots and Leaves: less cowardly than leaving _then_ shooting... also the actual name of the book. ;-) -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 10060, 'Operation timed out'
After 20 seconds only. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can a simple a==b 'hang' in and endless loop?
Claudio Grondi wrote:
Steve Holden wrote:
Claudio Grondi wrote:
In the process of learning about some deeper details of Python I am
curious if it is possible to write a 'prefix' code assigning to a and
b something special, so, that Python gets trapped in an endless loop
in a line with:
if a==b: print 'OK'
I mean, it would be of much help to me on my way to understanding
Python to know how such prefix code leading to an endless loop can
look like and if it is eventually not possible to write such code, to
know why it is not possible?
My own first rough idea was to create generators which never end and
use them in the '==' comparison, but I have not well understood how to
write and use generators yet, so I expect from studying this special
case to come to some enlightenment.
Well, you could try this:
class thing:
... def __eq__(self, other):
... return other == self
...
a = thing()
b = thing()
a == b
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 1, in ?
File stdin, line 3, in __eq__
File stdin, line 3, in __eq__
File stdin, line 3, in __eq__
...
File stdin, line 3, in __eq__
File stdin, line 3, in __eq__
RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
Was that what you meant? Or something more like:
class thing:
... def __eq__(self, other):
... import time; time.sleep(100)
...
a = thing()
b = thing()
a == b
regards
Steve
Thanks for the quick reply.
I see, that I have overseen, that as Fredrik also stated, one can
directly manipulate __eq__() as the easiest way to achieve what I
requested.
To explain why I am not happy with it, I will try here to give some more
background information. Sorry for not doing it directly, but as already
stated I have forgot about the possibility to use __eq__().
In Python the built in '==' operator (when not manipulated in own code)
behaves not as the '==' operator e.g. in C or Javascript, because it
iterates over arrays (i.e. lists) doing many comparisons instead of
comparing only two 'values'. Coming from C or Javascript one would
expect '==' to compare the 'pointers' to the arrays and not to iterate
over all elements of the lists.
With the solution to the question above I intended to have an example of
Python code which outcome is an endless loop and the problem causing it
very hard to find if one thinks in terms of C or Javascript when
considering lists (as arrays) and the function of '==' operator.
If your assertiona about C and Java are correct you would, of course,
describing a deficiency of those languages, where a variable refers to a
reserved area of storage intended to hold a value of a specific type (or
a specific uinion of types).
To the Python user C and Java appear to be confusing equality with
identity. The == operator in C, certainly, compares identity (whether
of values or of pointers to structured values). Frankly I don't choose
to remember enough Java to determine the correctness of your assertion
in that language.
In Python a name is intended to be bound as a reference to an object of
any type whatsoever (the type pf the object is stored as a part of the
value). Equality is generally defined as has the same value, hence the
ability to define it specifically for user-defined types.
In Python you test for is the same object with the is operator. As in
a = {1:2, 3:4}
b = {1:2, 3:4}
a == b
True
a is b
False
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/
--
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Is there a maximum length of a regular expression in python?
I have a regular expression that is approximately 100k bytes. (It is basically a list of all known norwegian postal numbers and the corresponding place with | in between. I know this is not the intended use for regular expressions, but it should nonetheless work. the pattern is ur'(N-|NO-)?(5259 HJELLESTAD|4026 STAVANGER|4027 STAVANGER|8305 SVOLVÆR)' The error message I get is: RuntimeError: internal error in regular expression engine -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Tim Golden wrote: [Shalabh Chaturvedi] | Hm. Am I the only one not particularly impressed? Sure the | front page is | 'slick' but a few clicks reveal a fairly shallow facade of marketing | material, with no real content. In general gives the impression of | 'phony' company trying to make a big impression. Most good non-tech | managers are very wary of such organizations/companies. [... snip similar stuff highlighting the relative lightweightness of the content ...] Ummm. I might have missed the point, and certainly what I'm about to say is based on no more than my reading between the lines of Steve's original announcement, but... I see the current beta site as a layout/display/look-and-feel beta, *not* a content beta, at least no more than is absolutely necessary to support the look-and-feel. Hi Tim, Yep, the most effort has gone into deciding what level of change is really necessary . Which is not a lot. The navigation has been rearranged very slightly so that there is a consistent left hand navigation throughout the site. The layout of the site has been changed from table based to css based. The templates should be valid xhtml. etc. As I've mentioned, new content needs writing and some content needs updating but the biggest job is migrating the old content over. We'd also like to get content from the wiki into the website (so it can be mirrored). Now I might be wrong, in which case your comments are pretty much justified. But it looks to me as though most of the content was banged in a year or so ago (or more, maybe) to give a this-kind-of-blurb feel, some or all of which would be replaced with current and agreed blurb before the thing went live. Most of the content that is currently on beta.python.org was added in the last three months. Most of the top level content is about 9 months old. You might argue that the beta shouldn't have been unveiled without suitable text etc. But I would say: well done to the people who've made the effort and put the beta together. It's been mentioned that the whole thing is downloadable and open to contributions, so maybe that's the way forward for you: make or implement your suggestions and send them back to the maintainers. If we never put it up as a beta, I would have had to finish the whole job on my own (which is a bit tough whilst trying to run my own company, although the psf have helped out in this). I'm looking forward to getting the current content over and then helping contribute to the content more... Thanks for the comments.. Tim -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can a simple a==b 'hang' in and endless loop?
Fuzzyman wrote:
Claudio Grondi wrote:
[snip..]
Thanks for the quick reply.
I see, that I have overseen, that as Fredrik also stated, one can
directly manipulate __eq__() as the easiest way to achieve what I
requested.
To explain why I am not happy with it, I will try here to give some more
background information. Sorry for not doing it directly, but as already
stated I have forgot about the possibility to use __eq__().
In Python the built in '==' operator (when not manipulated in own code)
behaves not as the '==' operator e.g. in C or Javascript, because it
iterates over arrays (i.e. lists) doing many comparisons instead of
comparing only two 'values'. Coming from C or Javascript one would
expect '==' to compare the 'pointers' to the arrays and not to iterate
over all elements of the lists.
In Python the equality operator ('==') compares values. For sequence
and mapping type objects this can be a (relatively) expensive
operation.
You are probably looking for the identity operator which just
(effectively) compares pointers ('is').
a is b
does more what you would expect.
This is a better system than the ones you describe. :-)
All the best,
Fuzzyman
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml
With the solution to the question above I intended to have an example of
Python code which outcome is an endless loop and the problem causing it
very hard to find if one thinks in terms of C or Javascript when
considering lists (as arrays) and the function of '==' operator.
Claudio
Yes, I know about 'is',
but I mean, that it is not possible to use 'is' as replacement for '=='
operator to achieve in Python same behaviour as it is the case in C and
Javascript when comparing values with '=='.
'is' does the C, Javascript job when comparing lists, but I mean it
fails to give fully predictable results when applied to elements of
lists in case there exist duplicate objects with same 'value' i.e. e.g.
there are two different objects storing the integer value 1, what I mean
can happen when there is enough other code between the Python code lines
assigning the integer value 1 to a list element or any other identifier.
Or is there in Python a 100% reliable mechanism assuring, that there is
one and _only one_ object carrying a given 'value' (at least for the
built in types as integer, long integer, string, float) and if this
value is to be assigned to a list element or any other literal the
already existing object (if any) will be found and used/referenced?
Claudio
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How to set a wx.textctrl can editable or readonly?
Hello All, I have a function to set readonly or editable of a textctrl. I'd like to make the textctrl initial set readonly and use other event funciton to set editable of the textctrl but it always can editable. How to set a textctrl can editable or readonly? Any Ideas? (see short snippet below) Thanks. --- self.tcFirstName = wx.TextCtrl(id=wxID_FRAME1TCFIRSTNAME, name=u'tcFirstName', parent=self.panel2, pos=wx.Point(16, 32), size=wx.Size(168, 24), style=0, value=u'') self.setForm() def setForm(self): self.Readonly(ro) def Readonly(self, flag): if flag==ro: self.tcFirstName.style=wx.TE_READONLY self.tcFirstName.Refresh() self.tcFirstName.SetBackgroundColour(self.panel1.GetBackgroundColour()) else: self.tcFirstName.style=0 self.tcFirstName.Refresh() self.tcFirstName.SetBackgroundColour((255,255,255)) # Other event function set textctrl can editable def OnBAddButton(self, event): self.Readonly(o) --- end -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Uncompressing TIFF files directly in Python
Hey guys, OK this is a long shot but does anyone know of a way to uncompress tiff files directly in python. I know it can be done with an os call but that'll only work on unix and only if the right software is installed! I need to convert tiff images downloaded from uspto.gov to pdf, these images are compressed using G4, so I dunno if anyone knows of a method of doing this witout the os call! Surely there is a utility out there somewhere? Sophie -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there a maximum length of a regular expression in python?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a regular expression that is approximately 100k bytes. (It is basically a list of all known norwegian postal numbers and the corresponding place with | in between. I know this is not the intended use for regular expressions, but it should nonetheless work. the pattern is ur'(N-|NO-)?(5259 HJELLESTAD|4026 STAVANGER|4027 STAVANGER|8305 SVOLVÆR)' The error message I get is: RuntimeError: internal error in regular expression engine And I'm not the least bit surprised. Your code is brittle (i.e. likely to break) and cannot, for example, cope with multiple spaces between the number and the word(s). Quite apart from breaking the interpreter :-) I'd say your test was the clearest possible demonstration that there *is* a limit. Wouldn't it be better to have a dict keyed on the number and containing the word (which you can construct from the same source you constructed your horrendously long regexp)? Then if you find something matching the pattern (untested) ur'(N-|NO-)?((\d\d\d\d)\s*([A-Za-z ]+))' or something like it that actually works (I invariably get regexps wrong at least three times before I get them right) you can use the dict to validate the number and name. Quite apart from anything else, if the text line you are examining doesn't have the right syntactic form then you are going to test hundreds of options, none of which can possibly match. So matching the syntax and then validating the data identified seems like a much more sensible option (to me, at least). regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Retaining Unix EOL when reading/writing in windows
Hello All, I'm relatively new to PYTHON, using PYTHON 2.4 on Windows XP. I'm having a problem as below. I've asked some other people in my office who are more experienced in PYTHON, but they can't help. I have a number of files created in UNIX that have the UNIX end of line (EOL) character. I want to read these files in python, modify some lines, and then write them to a new file. This appears to work fine, however I find that the output files have Windows EOL characters. This is a pain, as I want to compare the before and after files to see if my changes are correct. I've simplified my code down to something that just reads a file and then writes it to a different file. I'm currently doing this with a bit of code that looks something like this: filename = test.lwc outfile = open(test_out.lwc, 'w' ) readfile = open(filename,'r').readlines() for line in readfile: outfile.write(line) outfile.close() Is there a way I can do this, but retain the UNIX EOL characters? Cheers, Nick _ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://messenger.msn.co.uk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
Well I think the new site is definitely a step in the right direction. The old site is definitely utilitarian and is quite functional, but not sexy. And I think the whole point is to (hopefully) have a good first impression of the language and community by impressing (if you will) new users with a cool website. So, while I agree that the beta site does have a definite nineties corporate feel to it, I think it is better than the old site and would like to throw some kudos to whoever spent the time on it. I'm sure it wasn't a small job. At any rate, opinions will always differ. You are always going to get the people who want a cool flash-based animated site with 3D stereo surround sound, and the other end of the spectrum where you will be flamed if you do anything more than hand-code the html, on Unix machines only, using Vim or Emacs, ensuring it has a gray or neutral beige background, *and* uses the default font giving that classic 1981 university professor who refuses to use anything except Netscape Navigator feel. I use Eclipse a lot in my day-job and there are debates like this all the time whenever a change is made in the UI, but usually sanity (and quite nice-looking software, BTW) are the result. FWIW - they have just re-done the LF of their website as well. I must admit I like it (eclipse.org), but others do not - I'm sure we'll hear from them shortly - ;-). To each his own. I think it would definitely be cool to use a Python-based web app for the site. Plone is alright, but has a definite Plone approach that can be hard to shoe-horn your stuff into (although I think these guys have done an *awesome* job on their site: http://www.schooltool.org/). Zope is flexible but a beast to learn. And, well...there are just so many others. ;o) I'm still looking, myself... Markus. Tim Parkin wrote: Leeuw van der, Tim wrote: I think that in general, I don't like the fact that links to high-profile users are featured so prominently. That row of pictures there looks good to me 'as such' but linking there to 'success stories' feels, dunno, perhaps a bit cheesy to me. (That might be just my dutch upbringing) I would certainly want to see such links somewhere on the front page, just not so prominently. Possibly so... however in my experience, selling python to people is made a lot easier by being able to say 'look these guys are using it'. This may not help sell it to programmers, but as a businessman trying to sell my programming services, it's exceptionally important. btw do you have a problem with using nasa or astrazeneca as example high profile users? As I said, I don't like them. We're not a commercial company trying to promote itself to potential buyers. But that's too a large degree a matter of taste. Well I'd have to disagree with yout on one point.. 'We' may not be a commercial company (when you talk about python as a singular unit) but as python developers, we should be in the process of trying to 'sell' python wherever we can. Because we aren't a commercial company, our only 'sales' channels are the website and the developers/consultants that use python. (I'm talking about selling in the terms of 'promoting' or trying to persuade someone that using python is a good thing). I do actually think, though, that if the Python website *is* going to feature such big names with such prominence, some sort of approval from these organizations should be requested? That they don't mind being used a a Python reference story? The approval is already there (see pythonology success stories). About what could be there... Link to the even calender, or recent/upcoming event.. That is one to stay, I think. I think it would be good to have a link there too development environments that can be used for Python: editors, debuggers, IDEs / IDE extenstions, etc It's difficult to summarise this in a single image. The XP image was intended as a 'catch all' for the development environment. A different image and title would probably achieve better results but coming up with one or two words to sumarise that list is quite difficult. A third item could perhaps be a link to the Python Package Index -- another thing that Python developers are likely to need. The home page isn't intended to target existing python users.. and the home page photos are mostly targetted at the sort of people that respond well to photos. It's a dilemma that the home page has to serve two masters, however if we have a 'developer home page' which can be dedicated to development issues, news, planetpython links, package libraries etc, we would have a single page that developers could bookmark. The only alternative was to create a separate 'marketing python' website but it would just get ignored, especially by the people we really need to see the 'marketing' content. These things are, of course, rather developer-centered
Re: Is there a maximum length of a regular expression in python?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a regular expression that is approximately 100k bytes. (It is
basically a list of all known norwegian postal numbers and the
corresponding place with | in between. I know this is not the intended
use for regular expressions, but it should nonetheless work.
the pattern is
ur'(N-|NO-)?(5259 HJELLESTAD|4026 STAVANGER|4027 STAVANGER|8305
SVOLVÆR)'
The error message I get is:
RuntimeError: internal error in regular expression engine
you're most likely exceeding the allowed code size (usually 64k).
however, putting all postal numbers in a single RE is a horrid abuse of the RE
engine. why not just scan for (N-|NO-)?(\d+) and use a dictionary to check
if you have a valid match?
postcodes = {
5269: HJELLESTAD,
...
: ØSTRE FJORDVIDDA,
}
for m in re.finditer((N-|NO-)?(\d+) , text):
prefix, number = m.groups()
try:
place = postcodes[number]
except KeyError:
continue
if not text.startswith(place, m.end()):
continue
# got a match!
print prefix, number, place
/F
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Re: 10060, 'Operation timed out'
Sumit Acharya wrote:
After 20 seconds only.
Of course I now realise there's no default timeout on sockets anyway, so
that likely wasn't the problem.
Which statement is failing?
You would actually get much more information without the try/except
clauses, as they are stopping the traceback from being printed - if the
error is occurring deep in the ftplib you will actually see what and
where with a full traceback. Your loop should read:
for x in range(1000):
ftp = FTP()
ftp.connect(host,port)
ftp.login('a','a')
print ftp.sendcmd('pass x')
ftp.close()
Try running the script without both try/excepts and then post the full
traceback, please. You can forget about the timings for now. It may well
be an FTP server loading issue, but a traceback will give more information.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/
--
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Re: Is there a maximum length of a regular expression in python?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a regular expression that is approximately 100k bytes. (It is basically a list of all known norwegian postal numbers and the corresponding place with | in between. I know this is not the intended use for regular expressions, but it should nonetheless work. the pattern is ur'(N-|NO-)?(5259 HJELLESTAD|4026 STAVANGER|4027 STAVANGER|8305 SVOLVÆR)' The error message I get is: RuntimeError: internal error in regular expression engine I don't know of any stated maximum length, but I'm not at all surprised this causes the regex compiler to blow up. This is clearly a case of regex being the wrong tool for the job. I'm guessing a dictionary, with the numeric codes as keys and the city names as values (or perhaps the other way around) is what you want. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Python.org website ?
At any rate, opinions will always differ. You are always going to get the people who want a cool flash-based animated site with 3D stereo surround sound, and the other end of the spectrum where you will be flamed if you do anything more than hand-code the html, on Unix machines only, using Vim or Emacs, ensuring it has a gray or neutral beige background, *and* uses the default font giving that classic 1981 university professor who refuses to use anything except Netscape Navigator feel. Hmmm...I fall into that second camp, mostly because I often do python coding via ssh, and it's handy to use lynx/links/links2/elinks/w3m (whatever happens to be available on the machine in question) to browse the site. The beta.python.org site is easily navigated in Lynx, has the search function right up at the top (okay, link #6, when numbered-links are turned on, but that beats #50 down in the downloads section). I can give it a whirl accessibility-wise, using VoiceOver and Safari when I get back to my Mac. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how do real python programmers work?
I have a python file type setup in Vim. When I hit F9, it saves the file and executes it in a python shell. My _vimrc: filetype on autocmd FileType python call FileType_Python() Python coding function! TryPython() :w! :!python % endfunction function! FileType_Python() map F9:call TryPython()cr map! F9esc:call TryPython()cr set makeprg=python\ % set errorformat=\ \ File\ \%f\,\ line\ %l, so ~/vimfiles/indent/python.vim so ~/vimfiles/bike.vim so ~/vimfiles/python_calltips.vim endfunction -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to set a wx.textctrl can editable or readonly?
Hako wrote: Hello All, I have a function to set readonly or editable of a textctrl. I'd like to make the textctrl initial set readonly and use other event funciton to set editable of the textctrl but it always can editable. How to set a textctrl can editable or readonly? Here is one way. Create a subclass of wx.TextCtrl, with an attribute called 'readonly'. Set the attribute to True or False to represent the desired state. In the subclass, create a wx.EVT_SET_FOCUS handler to be called whenever the text control receives focus. Then do something like this - def onGotFocus(self,evt): if readonly: self.Navigate() This causes the control to react as if the user press 'tab'. By default it always tabs forwards, but it takes an optional 'IsForward' argument - set it to False to tab backwards. HTH Frank Millman ps You will get a better response to questions like this if you post them to the wxPython mailing list - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to set a wx.textctrl can editable or readonly?
Frank Millman wrote: def onGotFocus(self,evt): if readonly: self.Navigate() Oops - I meant 'if self.readonly' ... Frank -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can a simple a==b 'hang' in and endless loop?
Claudio Grondi wrote: [...] Yes, I know about 'is', but I mean, that it is not possible to use 'is' as replacement for '==' operator to achieve in Python same behaviour as it is the case in C and Javascript when comparing values with '=='. 'is' does the C, Javascript job when comparing lists, but I mean it fails to give fully predictable results when applied to elements of lists in case there exist duplicate objects with same 'value' i.e. e.g. there are two different objects storing the integer value 1, what I mean can happen when there is enough other code between the Python code lines assigning the integer value 1 to a list element or any other identifier. Perhaps you could try again in English? :-) Sorry, that's a very complex sentence and it isn't clear what yo mean. In C, of course, a == b requires that a and b be of compatible types and that they have the same value. This means that if they are pointers they must point to the same thing (which is exactly what is tests for). Or is there in Python a 100% reliable mechanism assuring, that there is one and _only one_ object carrying a given 'value' (at least for the built in types as integer, long integer, string, float) and if this value is to be assigned to a list element or any other literal the already existing object (if any) will be found and used/referenced? No more than there is in C or, presumably, Java. If you want to test for identity, use is. If you want to test for equality, use ==. Of you want to test for something else, kindly explain what you want to test for. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Retaining Unix EOL when reading/writing in windows
Nick Wain wrote: Hello All, I'm relatively new to PYTHON, using PYTHON 2.4 on Windows XP. I'm having a problem as below. I've asked some other people in my office who are more experienced in PYTHON, but they can't help. I have a number of files created in UNIX that have the UNIX end of line (EOL) character. I want to read these files in python, modify some lines, and then write them to a new file. This appears to work fine, however I find that the output files have Windows EOL characters. This is a pain, as I want to compare the before and after files to see if my changes are correct. I've simplified my code down to something that just reads a file and then writes it to a different file. I'm currently doing this with a bit of code that looks something like this: filename = test.lwc outfile = open(test_out.lwc, 'w' ) readfile = open(filename,'r').readlines() for line in readfile: outfile.write(line) outfile.close() Is there a way I can do this, but retain the UNIX EOL characters? Yup. Try outfile = open(test_out.lwc, 'wb' ) to write the file in binary mode. That way the file handling code won;t ferkle with what you write. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to set a wx.textctrl can editable or readonly?
def onGotFocus(self,evt): if readonly: self.Navigate() This causes the control to react as if the user press 'tab'. By default it always tabs forwards, but it takes an optional 'IsForward' argument - set it to False to tab backwards. Just a pedantic query, not having wx under my fingertips at the moment...what happens if you three controls, A (r/w), B (read-only), and C (r/w) in that focus order...if use shift+tab in control C, does it properly go back to A, or does it move you forward again to control C. Additionally, you should be able to copy text from a read-only control, so ousting the focus may not be quite the right thing to do. Just a few random thoughts, [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jan 18)
QOTW: *what* the value is is defined by the operations that the object supports (via its type). *how* the value is represented inside the object is completely irrelevant; a Python implementation may use electric charges in small capacitors, piles of rocks, diapers,or an endless supply of small guys in odd costumes to encode the value inside an object. Changes to the value may be carried out by CPU instructions, caterpillars, toddlers with gasmasks, or an endless supply of small guys in odd costumes. The only thing that's important is that you can, in your Python program, access an objects value via its type, and get other objects back when you do. - Fredrik Lundh I have never seen a case where a dictionary didn't improve the design. - Ivan Van Laningham PyCon Early bird registration ends, FrOSCon 2006 issues a Call for Papers and OSCON 2006 (Python 14 Conference) issues a Call for Proposals: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python.announce/browse_frm/thread/3e139769821f7e6e http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python.announce/browse_frm/thread/a5704ce3f09c4f01 http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python.announce/browse_frm/thread/8f520f85326bf7de With release 0.6, OSAF's Python based PIM Chandler includes an experimentally usable calendar, with support for recurring events, time-zones and the ability to share calendars with others: http://chandler.osafoundation.org/ Fynali asks How to remove subset from a file efficiently?. Follow-ups, as has happened so often before, reduce his runtime from a few minutes to a few seconds: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/929fcdf0ff9731dc Tim Peters explains why you shouldn't expect much from atexit + threads: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/fe9e426650764ed9 Scott David Daniels suggests use of decorators to handle unit tests that are known to fail: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/7ea0762494ef96ff Robin Becker requests some smart/fast way to flatten a level one list and receives a number of suggestions: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/383aab2c3467eb59 A discussion of the draft for a new Python.org web site leads to a conclusion of general happiness with the new look: http://beta.python.org Brian Blais asks how do 'real' python programmers work? and receives a sample of development processes that Pythonistas use, focused on what kind of windows people have on their screen, but also including such important aspects as test driven development: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/82b4f2f90b9def56 Michael Galvin receives a few suggestions on how to get both text and graphics to a printer from Python: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/bc0742534da994d2 Duncan Booth and others explain how to make a dictionary aware of its own changes: http://groups.google.se/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/eeca4df10529f7e0 Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages: Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional center of Pythonia http://www.python.org Notice especially the master FAQ http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the marvelous daily python url http://www.pythonware.com/daily Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new) World-Wide Web articles related to Python. http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL are utterly different in their technologies and generally in their results. For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index much of the universe of Pybloggers. http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog http://www.planetpython.org/ http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software. Be sure to scan this newsgroup weekly. http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djqas_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week. http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ The Python Package Index catalogues packages. http://www.python.org/pypi/ The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references to all
Re: New Python.org website ?
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:33:06 -0800, Tim N. van der Leeuw wrote: What I especially dislike about the new website are the flashy pictures on the front-page with no content and no purpose -- purely boasting but nothing to back up your claims. (I wouldn't mind some sleek pictures there if they weren't desperatly trying to advertise success-stories but instead would link to real content!) Tim the Taller (I presume he's taller; he's Dutch) and the other critics fail to realize is that no one reads content. I'm assured that in print ads the only content anyone reads is in picture captions, and you damn well better make sure your message is conveyed there. Any other content only wastes space. I see no reason to think that a web page should be designed using any other assumption. If anything, Tim the Shorter (I presume he's shorter; he's not Dutch) has too much content and too few images. The beta page is a great improvement over the current content-intensive page. I recommend David Ogilvy's Ogilvy on Advertising for a enthusiastic but somewhat cynical view of the subject. It is a very old book, but nothing about human nature has changed since it was written. Jim Wilson Gainesville, FL -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can a simple a==b 'hang' in and endless loop?
Claudio Grondi wrote: [snip..] Yes, I know about 'is', but I mean, that it is not possible to use 'is' as replacement for '==' operator to achieve in Python same behaviour as it is the case in C and Javascript when comparing values with '=='. 'is' does the C, Javascript job when comparing lists, but I mean it fails to give fully predictable results when applied to elements of lists in case there exist duplicate objects with same 'value' i.e. e.g. there are two different objects storing the integer value 1, what I mean Hmmm... : a = 1 b = 1 a is b True Doesn't work with arbitrary longs of course... can happen when there is enough other code between the Python code lines assigning the integer value 1 to a list element or any other identifier. Or is there in Python a 100% reliable mechanism assuring, that there is one and _only one_ object carrying a given 'value' (at least for the built in types as integer, long integer, string, float) and if this value is to be assigned to a list element or any other literal the already existing object (if any) will be found and used/referenced? So the Java/C '==' operator sometimes works like '==' in Python and sometimes works like 'is' ? (It switches between equality and identity depending on the types being compared IIUC). My understanding is that you can't use '==' in Java to compare strings, because it is an identity test not an equality test. You have to use a string method to compare strings. This bites quite a few people... Anyway, AFAICT your problem only matters in the abstract (where you are theoretically comparing objects you haven't specified the type of and *might* want to use '==' and *might* want to use 'is'). For practical purposes '==' will do what you want, unless you deliberately create buggy code to cause a problem when you use it... Unless you can post an example of *non-buggy* code that doesn't behave how you expect ? All the best, Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml Claudio -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can a simple a==b 'hang' in and endless loop?
Claudio Grondi wrote: Steve Holden wrote: [snip..] The problem here is, that I mean, that in Python it makes no sense to talk about a value of an object, because it leads to weird things when trying to give a definition what a value of an object is. You're saying that C and Java get round that problem by sometimes defining value to mean 'the memory address and object is stored at'. That hardly seems to clarify what value *really* means, and can lead to some interesting confusions. Anyway - for the basic datatypes 'value' seems quite clear. It's only not clear what this might mean in user defined classes - where value means whatever you define it to mean. By overloading the comparison and rich comparison methods of user defined classes, you have the opportunity to *precisely* define the meaning of value... It seems, that in Python there is a lack of operator able to compare values as it is the case in C and Javascript, simply because in Python there are no really such things as values, so there is no need to compare them. Can you provide an example to clarify what you mean ? All the best, Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
