Re: unicode question
Edward Loper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would like to convert an 8-bit string (i.e., a str) into unicode,
treating chars \x00-\x7f as ascii, and converting any chars \x80-xff
into a backslashed escape sequences. I.e., I want something like this:
decode_with_backslashreplace('abc \xff\xe8 def')
u'abc \\xff\\xe8 def'
The best I could come up with was:
def decode_with_backslashreplace(s):
str - unicode
return (s.decode('latin1')
.encode('ascii', 'backslashreplace')
.decode('ascii'))
Surely there's a better way than converting back and forth 3 times?
I didn't check whether this was faster, although I rather suspect it is
not:
cvt = lambda x: ord(x)0x80 and x or '\\x'+hex(ord(x))
def decode_with_backslashreplace(s):
return ''.join(map(cvt,s))
--
- Tim Roberts, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Providenza Boekelheide, Inc.
--
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Re: Exception not raised
Diez B. Roggisch wrote: This code are inside a method into class that have no try/except. And called from a method inside a wx.Frame derivate. The other strange thing is that if I try the same code just before the caller to that method, it raise an exception: So maybe the C-layer of wx in-between doesn't propagate the exception for whatever reason? Can be, but only that exception aren't raised, all the other, in the same point of code, yes. Fact is: pythons exception-handling is core part of the language and an error in there _extremely_ improbable . I think the same, and this is one of the reason that push me to use python. So I suggest you cut down your example until it is self-contained with only a few dozen lines and still produces your observed behavior. Otherwise no one will be able to help you. Into my 100 line code, that exception (and all the others) are raised! I don't able, into all my tries, to reproduce that error on a small code... I can publish my code, if someone has one hour of spare time and a postgresql where test the code. I'm make some instruction to reproduce it. Diez Thanks, Michele -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Multiple threaded download streams?
Hello. Though Python supports threading, I think it is limited to python code - as soon as you issue a command that uses an external (C?) module, all of your python threads hang until this command returns. Is that true? I'm using urllib2 to download many files, and I have a double problem: 1. downloading all of them is painfully slow since it's serial - one has to finish before the next request gets sent. 2. my GUI becomes non responsive during the downloads - major problem! Is there any way to work around that? I want to run multiple download streams, in parallel, and while keeping my program responsive. Are there alternative modules that I can use for that? Any ideas? Thanks a lot! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to send an email with non-ascii characters in Python
Lad enlightened us with:
Body='Rídících Márinka a kolák Kája
Marík'.decode('utf8').encode('windows-1250')# I use the text written
in my editor with utf-8 coding, so first I decode and then encode to
windows-1250
Why would you do that? What's the advantage of windows-1250?
Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Frank Zappa
--
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Import in a separate thread
I want to import a long list of modules in a separate thread to speed things up. How can I make the modules imported in that separate thread accessible outside the method? === import os # import rest in a separate thread def importRest(): import audio import socket thread.start_new_thread(importRest,()) # audio.somemethod() would fail here === -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Import in a separate thread
cyberco [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I want to import a long list of modules in a separate thread to speed things up. How can I make the modules imported in that separate thread accessible outside the method? It won't speed things up unless the main thread is waiting for user input during those imports, or something like that. Threads in Python don't really run in parallel. # import rest in a separate thread def importRest(): import audio import socket thread.start_new_thread(importRest,()) # audio.somemethod() would fail here Here's one way: def importRest(): global audio import audio as local_audio audio = local_audio # etc. There's surely other ways that are better. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Import in a separate thread
cyberco wrote: I want to import a long list of modules in a separate thread to speed things up. How can I make the modules imported in that separate thread accessible outside the method? Sounds like premature optimization. Speed things up? What things? How long is it taking now to load the modules you are loading? Even the wxPython demo takes only a few seconds to load on a decent machine, and that's loading a *heck* of a lot of stuff. (And it takes the conventional approach to this issue too, which is to display a splash screen while things load.) -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python-list/python-dev quoting style
On 2006-02-25, Michael Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And who is me, anyway? It's hard to believe that you don't understand who me is in a conversation between two people, Since when is a Usenet news group a conversation between two people? one of whom is identified as Aahz and is attributed words you yourself wrote. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Not SENSUOUS... only at FROLICSOME... and in visi.comneed of DENTAL WORK... in PAIN!!! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Multiple threaded download streams?
On 2006-02-25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though Python supports threading, I think it is limited to python code - as soon as you issue a command that uses an external (C?) module, all of your python threads hang until this command returns. Is that true? No. Not unless the C modules is broken. I'm using urllib2 to download many files, and I have a double problem: 1. downloading all of them is painfully slow since it's serial - one has to finish before the next request gets sent. Then don't do it that way. 2. my GUI becomes non responsive during the downloads - major problem! Use a separate thread for downloading. Is there any way to work around that? Yes. Use threads. I want to run multiple download streams, in parallel, and while keeping my program responsive. Then do it that way. Are there alternative modules that I can use for that? And what, exactly, didn't work right when you tried the threading module? -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I demand IMPUNITY! at visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Multiple threaded download streams?
Use a separate thread for downloading. Or the twisted select-reactor. No threads needed. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: graph display(please help)
questions? wrote: I heard from my friend who used to program in JAVA, it is really easy to do graph display in JAVA. Thanks for any suggestions!!! Jython -- Mladen Adamovic home page: http://home.blic.net/adamm -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Import in a separate thread
Peter Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sounds like premature optimization. Speed things up? What things? How long is it taking now to load the modules you are loading? Even the wxPython demo takes only a few seconds to load on a decent machine, and that's loading a *heck* of a lot of stuff. I know that whenever I start IDLE and it's not already cached, it takes a significant amount of time, and that doesn't even use wxPython. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using ElementTree to tidy up an XML string to my liking
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:21:59 +0100, Magnus Lycka wrote: Concerning element names, it's your coice of course, but I agree more and more with Guido and PEP008 that camelCase is ugly. (Not that ALLCAPS is better...) I can see in PEP008 where it says Capitalized_Words_With_Underscores is ugly, but I can't see where it says pure camelCase is ugly ? -- Richard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Problem with Property
I'm trying to implement a simple repeateable property mechansism so I
don't have to write accessors for every single instance variable I have.
classMyObject:
def __init__ (self):
self.initialize()
def initialize(self):
self._value=None
def _setProperty (self, name, value):
print set property
setattr (self, name, value)
def _getProperty (self, name):
print get property
return getattr (self, name)
#properties
value = property (lambda self: self._getProperty(_value),
lambda self, value: self._setProperty(_value,
value))
def testObject():
o = MyObject()
print o.__dict__
print o.value
o.value = 123
print o.value
print o.__dict__
if __name__ == __main__:
testObject()
-
The outout looks like this
{'_value': None}
get property
None
123
{'_value': None, 'value': 123}
---
As you can see, the _getProperty() method gets called properly when I do
'o.value' but 'o.value = 123' does not seem to use the property
stucture. I can't figure out why 'o.value=123' does not call
_setProperty()
Any ideas?
Jay
--
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Re: Best python module for Oracle, but portable to other RDBMSes
Thanks Olivier and Jonathan. Do either of you, or anyone else, know of a good open source data modeling / ER-diagram / CASE tools? I'd like to be able to build relatively simple schemas in one open source tool and be able to create a database on different platforms as needed (e.g. MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle, etc). Just wondering what's out there. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Module written in C does not repond to Ctrl-C interruption.
Bo Peng wrote: Daniel Dittmar wrote: You could set up your own signal handler when entering the C extension. This should abort the extension (tricky) and call the Python signal handler. This can be done under linux using things in signal.h but I am not sure whether or not there is a portable way to do it (max, win32). Does anybody know a quick way under windows? SetConsoleCtrlHandler: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dllproc/base/setconsolectrlhandler.asp Daniel -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PyUNO with different Python
h... I can run OK hello_world.py. But only with Python-core-2.3 Python 2.4 don't run (conflict-version, or windows error). And, it's not possible to install extensions (like PyWin) to Python-core-2.3 (this destroy the same extensions in my normal Python 2.4) I had let down these aspects of OOo. *sorry for my bad english* MCI -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Python-de] PyUNO with different Python
Bonjour ! J'ai des problèmes/besoins similaires. Mais, désolé, je ne parle pas allemand... @-salutations Michel Claveau -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
A bit off topic, but good web hosting for PostgreSQL/Python?
Seems like most web hosting providers support MySQL, but not PostgreSQL. I need a web hosting account that supports PostgreSQL for a particular personal project I'm working on (as well as Python, natch), since PostGIS runs only on PostgreSQL. PostGIS is a nice open source spatial database extension to PostgreSQL that allows you to store geometry in the database. Couldn't find a good PostgreSQL newsgroup so I thought I'd ask here. Did find one weird one named Mailing something or other, but that may be a gateway to a e-mail distribution list. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python-list/python-dev quoting style
[Aahz] And who is me, anyway? [me] It's hard to believe that you don't understand who me is in a conversation between two people, [Grant Edwards] Since when is a Usenet news group a conversation between two people? Now there are three. At that time only two people had participated in this thread. Is there really confusion about who me is? I find that mystifying. -- Michael Hoffman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem with Property
* none wrote: classMyObject: [...] As you can see, the _getProperty() method gets called properly when I do 'o.value' but 'o.value = 123' does not seem to use the property stucture. I can't figure out why 'o.value=123' does not call _setProperty() Any ideas? property only works as intended with new style classes. nd -- Muschelflucht-Zusatzeinrichtung. Shell-Escape ist ja noch klar, aber `Zusatzeinrichtung'? extension? Feature. -- gefunden in de.org.ccc -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Is Python a Zen language?
Greetings, I have a rough classification of languages into 2 classes: Zen languages and tool languages. A tool language is a language that is, well, a *tool* for programming a computer. C is the prototypical tool language. Most languages in the Algol family are tool languages. Visual Basic and Java are also tool languages. On the other hand, a Zen language is a language which is purported to transform your way of thinking about programming. Lisp, Scheme, Forth, Smalltalk and (maybe) C++ are Zen languages. Disciples acknowledge that it is difficult to pick up these languages but claim that, if you persevere, you sooner or later reach a state of computational satori in which it all makes sense. Interestingly enough, these languages often have books which approach scriptural status e.g. SICP for Scheme. So (assuming my classification makes sense) which is Python? The emphasis on simplicity and the beginner-friendly nature of it seems to put it in the tool category. On the other hand, the emphasis on the ONE TRUE WAY to accomplish most tasks and the tendency for participants in this newsgroup to criticize one another's code as being unpythonic seems to move it towards the Zen category. Of course, even tool languages have their idioms which the novice needs to pick up, so maybe this isn't decisive, but I detect an element of zeal in this newsgroup that I don't detect in (say) Excel VBA programming newsgroups. No value judgement is intended by my classification. There is no denying that Zen languages are often very powerful tools (for those who have reached satori) and that there is a Zen to really mastering, say, C. Personally, I have never been able to master any Zen language but can pick up tool languages fairly quickly, so I prefer tool languages. This is probably because I am not a programmer (I'm a mathematician who likes to program as a hobby and for numerical simulations) and so don't have the time to invest in picking up a Zen language. Hard-core hackers might presumably lean towards the Zen languages. Just curious -John Coleman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Multiple threaded download streams?
Diez B. Roggisch wrote: Use a separate thread for downloading. Or the twisted select-reactor. No threads needed. Although depending on what the GUI is like, and what platform is involved, one might still want at least a second thread for the reactor itself. -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem with Property
none @bag.python.org wrote: I'm trying to implement a simple repeateable property mechansism so I don't have to write accessors for every single instance variable I have. Please don't do that. The Python way is to use direct access to instance variables unless there's a good reason not to. Is there some reason why you want to run get/set code for every instance variable access, or are you just experimenting to see whether it can be done? It seems particularly odd to want to put getters and setters behind property access. What does the extra layer buy you? regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem with Property
André Malo wrote: * none wrote: classMyObject: [...] As you can see, the _getProperty() method gets called properly when I do 'o.value' but 'o.value = 123' does not seem to use the property stucture. I can't figure out why 'o.value=123' does not call _setProperty() Any ideas? property only works as intended with new style classes. duh.. I changed that to class MyObject(object): and it worked fine Thanks Take care, Jay -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem with Property
André Malo wrote: * none wrote: classMyObject: [...] As you can see, the _getProperty() method gets called properly when I do 'o.value' but 'o.value = 123' does not seem to use the property stucture. I can't figure out why 'o.value=123' does not call _setProperty() Any ideas? property only works as intended with new style classes. duh.. I changed that to class MyObject(object): and it worked fine Thanks Take care, Jay -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem with Property
Em Sáb, 2006-02-25 às 09:14 -0500, Steve Holden escreveu: It seems particularly odd to want to put getters and setters behind property access. What does the extra layer buy you? I can only think of some kind of debugging. Maybe? regards Steve Cya, Felipe. -- Quem excele em empregar a força militar subjulga os exércitos dos outros povos sem travar batalha, toma cidades fortificadas dos outros povos sem as atacar e destrói os estados dos outros povos sem lutas prolongadas. Deve lutar sob o Céu com o propósito primordial da 'preservação'. Desse modo suas armas não se embotarão, e os ganhos poderão ser preservados. Essa é a estratégia para planejar ofensivas. -- Sun Tzu, em A arte da guerra -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem with Property
none @bag.python.org wrote: I'm trying to implement a simple repeateable property mechansism so I don't have to write accessors for every single instance variable I have. ... Any ideas? Yes, don't write accessors for every single instance variable you have. In some languages that might be appropriate, or considered good style. In Python, it's entirely unnecessary and you should just access instance variables directly when you want to, and in the odd case where you want to do something more than set/get/del them you can resort to properties (when a nice clear method wouldn't fit). (Sorry not to answer the question directly. If you feel you really need to use accessors then go ahead, but I just wanted you to know that many Python programmers feel quite differently about them than, say, C++ or Java programmers might.) -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
Actually, Python has the distinction of being both a great tool language *and* a great Zen language. That's what makes Python so cool ;-))) Ron Stephens Python411 www.awaretek.com/python/index.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem with Property
Steve Holden wrote: none @bag.python.org wrote: It seems particularly odd to want to put getters and setters behind property access. What does the extra layer buy you? The purpose is that there is more to the accessors then I posted. The setters do some 'mark dirty' bookeeping whenever the object state changes. (I had coded something similar in a prior project but had forgotten a bit of my own work...in that project the setters also did some event signaling as the objects were part of an Observer-Observable pattern) The getters also have some code in them for dealing with default values if the given variable behind the property does not exist (which happened when I was pickling objects and the class structure changed over time; it was helpful to be able to have the getter be able to check if the variable existed and, if not, provide a default value...a way of migrating objects to new class definitions) So, the use of properties allowed me let clients of the class to use direct access syntax... o.value versues o.value() or o.value = 123 versus o.value(123) ...but still allow me to do the bookkeeping needed for my object state. The use of the _getProperty() and _setProperty() and using lambdas in the actual property definition allowed me to have a default setter/getter of sorts so I didn't need to write a seperate getter and setter method for each variable Take care, Jay -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pure python implementation of string-like class
Akihiro KAYAMA wrote: As the character set is wider than UTF-16(U+10), I can't use Python's native unicode string class. Have you tried using Python compiled in Wide Unicode mode (--enable-unicode=ucs4)? You get native UTF-32/UCS-4 strings then, which should be enough for most purposes. -- And Clover mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doxdesk.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
Mu. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
Ron Stephens wrote: Actually, Python has the distinction of being both a great tool language *and* a great Zen language. That's what makes Python so cool ;-))) Ron Stephens Python411 www.awaretek.com/python/index.html This would explain why the question is so hard to answer. It is a slam-dunk that Lisp is Zen and VBA is tool - but python really is a bit hard to classify. This is somewhat similar to the way that python seems to straddle the gap between imperative and functional languages. It has something from each worlds (whether it has the *best* from each world is a separate question) -John Coleman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python-list/python-dev quoting style
Some lurker calling himself me wrote: [Aahz] And who is me, anyway? [me] It's hard to believe that you don't understand who me is in a conversation between two people, [Grant Edwards] Since when is a Usenet news group a conversation between two people? Now there are three. At that time only two people had participated in this thread. Is there really confusion about who me is? I find that mystifying. Well, *I* know who me is. That makes you an impostor. see-how-nobody-knows-who-you-are-now-ly y'rs - steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pure python implementation of string-like class
Akihiro KAYAMA wrote: Hi all. I would like to ask how I can implement string-like class using tuple or list. Does anyone know about some example codes of pure python implementation of string-like class? Because I am trying to use Python for a text processing which is composed of a large character set. As the character set is wider than UTF-16(U+10), I can't use Python's native unicode string class. Wider than UTF-16 doesn't make sense. So I want to prepare my own string class, which provides convenience string methods such as split, join, find and others like usual string class, but it uses a sequence of integer as a internal representation instead of a native string. Obviously, subclassing of str doesn't help. The implementation of each string methods in the Python source tree(stringobject.c) is far from python code, so I have started from scratch, like below: def startswith(self, prefix, start=-1, end=-1): assert start 0, not implemented assert end 0, not implemented if isinstance(prefix, (str, unicode)): prefix = MyString(prefix) n = len(prefix) return self[0:n] == prefix but I found it's not a trivial task for myself to achive correctness and completeness. It smells reinventing the wheel also, though I can't find any hints in google and/or Python cookbook. I don't care efficiency as a starting point. Any comments are welcome. Thanks. The UTF-16 encoding is capable of representing the whole of Unicode. There should be no need to do anything special to use UTF-16. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Import in a separate thread
Well, it is for the python implementation for Nokia Series 60 phones, and loading lots of modules in such constrained environments can certainly slow things down. The splashscreen idea is what I want to do, but that requires the loading to continue in a background thread. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Multiple threaded download streams?
Diez B. Roggisch wrote: Use a separate thread for downloading. Or the twisted select-reactor. No threads needed. He's using urllib2, which does not use Twisted's select-reactor. Fortunately urllib2 downloads run fine in their own threads; no rewrite-all-the-code-as-Twisted-state-machines needed. -- --Bryan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
GEB perhaps? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python-list/python-dev quoting style
On 2006-02-25, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Aahz] And who is me, anyway? [me] It's hard to believe that you don't understand who me is in a conversation between two people, [Grant Edwards] Since when is a Usenet news group a conversation between two people? Now there are three. At that time only two people had participated in this thread. Is there really confusion about who me is? I find that mystifying. Well, *I* know who me is. That makes you an impostor. see-how-nobody-knows-who-you-are-now-ly y'rs - steve And now none of us have any way to know who the [me] above is. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Hmmm... a CRIPPLED at ACCOUNTANT with a FALAFEL visi.comsandwich is HIT by a TROLLEY-CAR... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: unicode question
Edward Loper wrote:
I would like to convert an 8-bit string (i.e., a str) into unicode,
treating chars \x00-\x7f as ascii, and converting any chars \x80-xff
into a backslashed escape sequences. I.e., I want something like this:
decode_with_backslashreplace('abc \xff\xe8 def')
u'abc \\xff\\xe8 def'
s='abc \xff\xe8 def'
s.encode('string_escape')
'abc \\xff\\xe8 def'
unicode(s.encode('string_escape'))
u'abc \\xff\\xe8 def'
Kent
--
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Re: Import in a separate thread
cyberco wrote: I want to import a long list of modules in a separate thread to speed things up. How can I make the modules imported in that separate thread accessible outside the method? === import os # import rest in a separate thread def importRest(): import audio import socket thread.start_new_thread(importRest,()) # audio.somemethod() would fail here === Just import the modules again when you need to use them - modules are cached, only the initial import is expensive. Of course this won't help if you don't have something else to do (like wait for the user) while the threaded imports happen. Another helpful technique is to put imports inside the functions that need them. If every module imports the modules it needs at global scope, then when the first module loads it will trigger importing of the whole program and all needed library modules. If this is expensive, you can break up the loads by putting key imports into functions instead of at global scope. Note to the doubters - I have used these techniques in Jython programs, where importing java packages can be noticably slow. Kent -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Multiple threaded download streams?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. Though Python supports threading, I think it is limited to python code - as soon as you issue a command that uses an external (C?) module, all of your python threads hang until this command returns. Is that true? I'm using urllib2 to download many files, and I have a double problem: 1. downloading all of them is painfully slow since it's serial - one has to finish before the next request gets sent. 2. my GUI becomes non responsive during the downloads - major problem! Is there any way to work around that? I want to run multiple download streams, in parallel, and while keeping my program responsive. Are there alternative modules that I can use for that? Any ideas? Thanks a lot! Others have spoken to the specifics of threads, etc. What I wanted to ask was why you think that parallel downloads will be faster? Unless you are downloading from multiple and different sites and your Internet download bandwidth is much greater than any individual site you wish to download from, you won't speed things up. If you wish to download several files from the SAME site, I doubt that threading is going to help. Most likely you are limited by the upload bandwidth of that site. Now if the site you are downloading from has some throttling turned on to limit the speed of an individual download, you could gain some benefit. You can't push bits through the pipes faster than their upper bandwidth. Just some thoughts to consider. -Larry Bates -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
Given that python code is often described in terms of being 'pythonic' or not, and that pythonic is a term that is apparently well agreed upon yet seemingly impossible to define for someone who does not already understand the word, python is probably a zen language. max -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
John Coleman wrote: Greetings, I have a rough classification of languages into 2 classes: Zen languages and tool languages. A tool language is a language that is, well, a *tool* for programming a computer. C is the prototypical tool language. Most languages in the Algol family are tool languages. Visual Basic and Java are also tool languages. On the other hand, a Zen language is a language which is purported to transform your way of thinking about programming. Lisp, Scheme, Forth, Smalltalk and (maybe) C++ are Zen languages. Disciples acknowledge that it is difficult to pick up these languages but claim that, if you persevere, you sooner or later reach a state of computational satori in which it all makes sense. Interestingly enough, these languages often have books which approach scriptural status e.g. SICP for Scheme. So (assuming my classification makes sense) which is Python? Expanding on what Alex said :-) Python is an excellent tool language, it is very pragmatic and powerful and makes it (relatively) easy to just get stuff done. Python has one of your 'zen' aspects - using Python has definitely expanded the way I think about programming. Powerful built-in support for lists and dicts, first-class functions and easy introspection enable a style of programming that is difficult or impossible in Java and C++. But Python is not difficult to pick up - it is notably easy - and I don't think anyone claims it leads to computational satori - it's more an attitude of try it, you'll like it!. Using Python does seem to spoil people - I for one hate to code in Java now. Maybe bliss is a better word for it than satori. Kent -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Can optparse do dependencies?
I'd like to setup command line switches that are dependent on other
switches, similar to what rpm does listed below. From the grammar below
we see that the query-options are dependent on the query switch,
{-q|--query}. Can optparse do this or do I have to code my own
thing? Thanks.
QUERYING AND VERIFYING PACKAGES:
rpm {-q|--query} [select-options] [query-options]
...
query-options
[--changelog] [-c,--configfiles] [-d,--docfiles] [--dump]
[--filesbypkg] [-i,--info] [--last] [-l,--list]
[--provides] [--qf,--queryformat QUERYFMT]
[-R,--requires] [--scripts] [-s,--state]
[--triggers,--triggerscripts]
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pure python implementation of string-like class
Hi bearophile. In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: bearophileHUGS Maybe you can create your class using an array of 'L' with the array bearophileHUGS standard module. Thanks for your suggestion. I'm currently using an usual list as a internal representation. According to my understanding, as compared to list, array module offers efficiency but no convenient function to implement various string methods. As Python's list is already enough fast, I want to speed up my coding work first. -- kayama -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pure python implementation of string-like class
Hi And. In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: and-google Akihiro KAYAMA wrote: and-google As the character set is wider than UTF-16(U+10), I can't use and-google Python's native unicode string class. and-google and-google Have you tried using Python compiled in Wide Unicode mode and-google (--enable-unicode=ucs4)? You get native UTF-32/UCS-4 strings then, and-google which should be enough for most purposes. From my quick survey, Python's Unicode support is restricted to UTF-16 range(U+...U+10) intentionally, regardless of --enable-unicode=ucs4 option. Python 2.4.1 (#2, Sep 3 2005, 22:35:47) [GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. u\U0010 u'\U0010' len(u\U0010) 1 u\U0011 UnicodeDecodeError: 'unicodeescape' codec can't decode bytes in position 0-9: illegal Unicode character Simple patch to unicodeobject.c which disables unicode range checking could solve this, but I don't want to maintenance specialized Python binary for my project. -- kayama -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
What is zen? Is it something eatible (I'm hungry now)? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
Kent Johnson wrote: Expanding on what Alex said :-) *snip* Python is an excellent tool language, it is very pragmatic and powerful *snip* Kent It's a good axe, Muddy waters said about his guitar when asked by some heavy-mega guitar hero. Python is practical tool for practical problems. But if problem isn't practical, it is misdefined. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
John Coleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] an interesting statement and question. ... So (assuming my classification makes sense) which is Python? The emphasis on simplicity and the beginner-friendly nature of it seems to put it in the tool category. On the other hand, the emphasis on the ONE TRUE WAY to accomplish most tasks and the tendency for participants in this newsgroup to criticize one another's code as being unpythonic seems to move it towards the Zen category. ,,, An 'emphasis on the ONE TRUE WAY' would not be pythonic ;-) Sorry you got that misimpression. For the Zen of Python, type 'import this' at an interactive prompt. One of the lines is 'There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.' This is intentionally more nuanced, and practical, than your paraphrase. I agree with the 'both' answer. Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
I don't know if python is Zend. It's quite minimalistic and it flows very well, so I guess it is a... Feng-shui language? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A bit off topic, but good web hosting for PostgreSQL/Python?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Seems like most web hosting providers support MySQL, but not PostgreSQL. There are actually many. Two that I personally have experience with: http://hub.org http://bizintegrators.com They both support PostgreSQL. Not sure on their python support, but I believe they likely already have it or would do mod_python for you. Couldn't find a good PostgreSQL newsgroup so I thought I'd ask here. The postgresql mailing lists are both active and very helpfull. Just check the postgresql site for mailing list subscription info. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pure python implementation of string-like class
Steve Holden wrote: Wider than UTF-16 doesn't make sense. It makes perfect sense. Ross Ridge -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Grabbing a object from the current code block using a callable statement?
Hi
Is it possible to grab get an object returned from a string and a
callable ? e.g
I pass in a key value pair:
def somemethod(adict = {'new name for object': 'code to reutrn
obejct'}):
object = .
for key, value in adict.items():
if callable(value):
somedict[key] = value()
else:
somedict[key] = value
such that
somedict = {'new name for object': object}
??
Thanks,
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
John Coleman wrote: I have a rough classification of languages into 2 classes: Zen languages and tool languages. A tool language is a language that is, well, a *tool* for programming a computer. C is the prototypical tool language. Most languages in the Algol family are tool languages. Visual Basic and Java are also tool languages. On the other hand, a Zen language is a language which is purported to transform your way of thinking about programming. Lisp, Scheme, Forth, Smalltalk and (maybe) C++ are Zen languages. I think that's a horrible classification. Every language is both. Transform your way of thinking from what? There is no distinguished canonical view of what a programming language looks like, from which all others must be strange and wondrous transformations. Lisp and Forth are not tools for programming a computer? Of course they are. Algol and Java don't transform people's thinking about programming? Nonsense. -- --Bryan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python-list/python-dev quoting style
Grant Edwards wrote: On 2006-02-25, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [me] It's hard to believe that you don't understand who me is in a conversation between two people, [me] Is there really confusion about who me is? I find that mystifying. [Grant Edwards] And now none of us have any way to know who the [me] above is. I see. -- me -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PyGTK + Glade = weird problem
Finally solved this stuff, the problem wasnt with glade, the problem was that i was using the destroy event in glade, i just changed the destroy to delete-event and it worked like a charm. thanx :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Path (graph) shower utility
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:31:15 +0100, Durumdara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi ! I need to create a program that read eml file headers, analyze the You mean email. Took me some time to figure out. receive tags and create a path database. I finished with this program You mean the Recieved: headers. Also took some time to figure out. section. But I want to show a graphical summary about the paths. This is (what I want to show) like a graph - show ways, stations, etc, and I want to show the strength of lines (how many of mails use this way). Can anyone known about a freeware tool, software, or python module that can show graphs with best alignments ? Sure. You want graphviz: http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/graphviz/ It's primarily a tool for rendering a graph (in Postscript, PNG etc) from a text representation, but IIRC there are Python bindings for it as well. Lots of people use it for purposes similar to yours. /Jorgen -- // Jorgen Grahn grahn@Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu \X/ snipabacken.dyndns.org R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Path (graph) shower utility
Thank you Jorgen, now I understand the question, and the answer isn't difficult :-) Graphviz is good enough for this purpose. but IIRC there are Python bindings for it as well. Durumdara can use an email module to extract data, then a graph library to create the graph, and then save the result in dot format for Graphviz. My Graph is probably enough: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pynetwork/ Otherwise NetworkX is good: https://networkx.lanl.gov/ There are other libs around, I have seen a new one quite recently. Bye, bearophile -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 18:31:33 GMT, Bryan Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I think that's a horrible classification. Every language is both. I agree; it's horrible as a classification. But it's interesting concepts. One might use them to discuss the design of various languages, and how the users treat them -- as long as one doesn't get carried away. Too bad Larry Wall doesn't post to this group. /Jorgen -- // Jorgen Grahn grahn@Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu \X/ snipabacken.dyndns.org R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
Bryan Olson wrote: John Coleman wrote: I have a rough classification of languages into 2 classes: Zen languages and tool languages. A tool language is a language that is, well, a *tool* for programming a computer. C is the prototypical tool language. Most languages in the Algol family are tool languages. Visual Basic and Java are also tool languages. On the other hand, a Zen language is a language which is purported to transform your way of thinking about programming. Lisp, Scheme, Forth, Smalltalk and (maybe) C++ are Zen languages. I think that's a horrible classification. Every language is both. Transform your way of thinking from what? There is no distinguished canonical view of what a programming language looks like, from which all others must be strange and wondrous transformations. Lisp and Forth are not tools for programming a computer? Of course they are. Algol and Java don't transform people's thinking about programming? Nonsense. -- --Bryan You seem to have completly overlooked both the hedge word rough in my first sentence and the qualifications in my third paragraph. I probably was not sufficiently clear that I was describing some fairly sunjective impressions. It is a simple observation that devotees of the Scheme language view their language as more than *just* a tool for programming computers. To quote from the introduction to the first edition of SICP: we want to establish the idea that a computer language is not just a way of getting a computer to perform operations but rather that it is a novel formal medium for expressing ideas about methodology (http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html). It is also a simple observation that experts in VBScript *don't* walk around talking like that. Scheme and VBScript are of course both Turing complete, but they seem to have radically different cultures. Do you disagree? Or, if you agree that there is a difference but don't like the words Zen vs. tool to describe it, how would you articulate the difference? Again, just curious. -John Coleman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: spaces at ends of filenames or directory names on Win32
For example... tell windows to move a file named ' XXX ' (one space before and one space after the filename). Windows will complain that file 'XXX' does not exist. It's correct of course, 'XXX' does not exist, but ' XXX ' does indeed exist. Can anyone rescue me from this madness :( - Please post your Python code. I don't see the problem you're describing. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: remote module importing (urlimport)
ajones wrote: What plans do you have for security in this? I would think that in order to trust this over the network you would at least need a certificate identifying the server as well as some method of verifying package contents. Either way, cool stuff. I think this is an interesting project. What if every module could be registered (at Python.org, for example) with a unique URI, a hash digest, and optionally a list of one or more source code sources (URLs)? Each module registered would have to have a unique name, but that is probably a good thing anyway. Then before loading a module the urlimport code could query something like http://Python.org/cheeseshop/moduleNS/%s; %moduleName From whence would be returned a short text file, something like: ThisModuleName HashNumber [http://source1/ThisModuleName.txt;, http://source2/funnydirectory/structure/ThisModuleName.txt;...] urlimport could then query the sources given, or any other known repositories, until it found a module of matching digest. What if you needed to use a certain version of a module for compatibility? Then would module names like ThisModuleName_2.71 become necessary? I wonder if the ripples of setting something like this up offend Pythonic thinking... and if the utility of having this sort of functionality would be worth risking some offense. I guess this stuff has all been done before and Python has good reasons for not pursuing it, but I wonder what those reasons are. /EP -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Editable lists in pygtk - Editing wrong cell
Hi all, i m trying to make an editable list with a toggle button, it
shows up and i can edit the list.. but its editing the wrong cell!
If i click on the toggle button on the first cell it sets FALSE on the
last cell of that row, if i change the text of the last cell if changes
another cell text... here is my code:
tree = self.principal.get_widget(file_list)
list = gtk.ListStore(str, str)
#Permite selecionar os arquivos
toggle = gtk.CellRendererToggle()
toggle.set_property('activatable', True)
tree.insert_column_with_attributes(-1, Convert?, toggle)
toggle.connect('toggled', self.Select, tree)
#permite editar a lista
renderer = gtk.CellRendererText()
renderer.set_property( 'editable', True )
renderer.connect('edited', self.Edit, list)
tree.insert_column_with_attributes(-1, Artist, renderer, text=0)
tree.insert_column_with_attributes(-1, Song, renderer, text=1)
tree.set_model(list)
def Select(self,cell,path,model):
model[path][1] = not model[path][1]
return
def Edit(self, cell, path, new_text, model):
model[path][0] = new_text
What's wrong with it? i m following this example:
http://pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/sec-CellRenderers.html#EditableTextCells
thanx in advance
--
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Re: Can optparse do dependencies?
[Bob]
I'd like to setup command line switches that are dependent on other
switches, similar to what rpm does listed below. From the grammar below
we see that the query-options are dependent on the query switch,
{-q|--query}. Can optparse do this or do I have to code my own
thing? Thanks.
QUERYING AND VERIFYING PACKAGES:
rpm {-q|--query} [select-options] [query-options]
...
query-options
[--changelog] [-c,--configfiles] [-d,--docfiles] [--dump]
[--filesbypkg] [-i,--info] [--last] [-l,--list]
[--provides] [--qf,--queryformat QUERYFMT]
[-R,--requires] [--scripts] [-s,--state]
[--triggers,--triggerscripts]
The optparse module doesn't have native support for switch
dependencies; however, it could likely be done with multiple passes.
The parse_args() takes an args list as an argument. Make first pass
that captures your main query switches, then run another parser on a
slice of the args list.
For example, capture the main switches on a first pass over the full
argument list (catching all possible main switches and treating
everything else as a catchall). Given, args=['-ql', '--changelog',
'-d', '-c'], parse out the --changelog and then call another parser
with args=['-d', '-c'].
This functionality seems useful enough to build into the tool directly,
so do consider putting a feature request on SourceForge (and assign to
Greg Ward).
Raymond
--
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Re: Optimize flag question
[Olivier Langlois] So my question is: what are the 'optimizations' that the Python interpreter is doing when you specify the optimize flag and is there anything I should be cautious about when using it? Currently, -O provides no optimizations other than eliminating assertions. Raymond -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pure python implementation of string-like class
Steve Holden wrote: Wider than UTF-16 doesn't make sense. Ross Ridge wrote It makes perfect sense. Alan Kennedy wrote: UTF-16 is a Unicode Transcription Format, meaning that it is a mechanism for representing all unicode code points, even the ones with ordinals greater than 0x, using series of 16-bit values. It's an encoding format that only supports encoding 1,112,064 different characters making it a little more than 20-bits wide. While this enough to encode all code points currently assigned by Unicode, it's not sufficient to encode the private use area of ISO 10646-1 that Akihiro Kayama wants to use. Ross Ridge -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Grabbing a object from the current code block using a callable statement?
ChaosKCW wrote:
Hi
Is it possible to grab get an object returned from a string and a
callable ? e.g
I pass in a key value pair:
def somemethod(adict = {'new name for object': 'code to reutrn
obejct'}):
object = .
for key, value in adict.items():
if callable(value):
somedict[key] = value()
else:
somedict[key] = value
such that
somedict = {'new name for object': object}
??
Thanks,
If you are asking if an object instance can be stored in a dictionary
the answer is yes.
example:
class foo:
... def method(self):
... print in foo.method
... return
...
adict={'fooclass': foo()}
adict['fooclass'].method()
in foo.method
Instances of classes are just like any other data you might put into
a list or a dictionary. I hope that is what you were asking.
-Larry Bates
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
John Coleman wrote: Ron Stephens wrote: Actually, Python has the distinction of being both a great tool language *and* a great Zen language. That's what makes Python so cool ;-))) Ron Stephens Python411 www.awaretek.com/python/index.html This would explain why the question is so hard to answer. It is a slam-dunk that Lisp is Zen and VBA is tool - but python really is a bit hard to classify. This is somewhat similar to the way that python seems to straddle the gap between imperative and functional languages. It has something from each worlds (whether it has the *best* from each world is a separate question) -John Coleman There is something that worries me about Lisp. If you are interested in the history of Lisp and some non-technical aspects of its culture I can recommend the writings of Richard Gabriel, who was one of the leaders of the CL standardisation commitee and founder of the Lisp company Lucid in the mid 80s that gone down a few years later. As it turned out that time Lisp was not capable to survive in what we call today a heterogenous environment. It was strongly too self-centered. So I would actually invert you categories and say that a good tool achieves to have a non-dual nature instead of a strong I. With Lisp you might be a god but according to the Zen philosophy a god is a subordinated character that preserves the illusion of self-identity. A fine thing about a tool in this context is that you have to define its identity by a relationship to something that it is not. I have at times the impression that many people who talk about Zen philosophy confuse it with some home brewn mixture of platonism with its transgressive move towards the true reality, a stoic hedonism of contemplation and the taoistic being-in-doing. Zen on the other side is more radical: if you erase yourself there is no-one who is in the flow but chances are that you and the computer over there are the same thing. Kay -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Concantenation and string slicing
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:06:46 -0600, Larry Bates [EMAIL PROTECTED] declaimed the following in comp.lang.python: Better was is: message = raw_input(Enter a message: ) print message[::-1] I sometimes get the feeling a lot of responses to newbies, lately, fail to explain what was wrong in the original code in favor of showing off the tricks that Python is capable of... Several others had already pointed out what was wrong (which of course the OP would have know if he had done a tutorial). I merely wanted to post a solution that IMHO was a much better way to accomplish the task. The OP is free to choose among the posted solutions. If others had not yet posted the solution, I would have posted both. -Larry Bates -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Optimize flag question
[copied to python-list] Olivier Langlois wrote: Hi Steve! Could you outline the code that needs to be in to make the program work, so we can assess the errors for ourselves? There is nothing unfixable. There are some instances where the code is checking a function return value like: assert(Somefunc()) which could fix with res = Somefunc() assert(res) So what you are saying is that Somefunc() needs to be executed, presumably because it has side-effects? Yes, it would be much better to recast it, but ... Some other functions rely on the AssertionError exception to indicate to the user that something went wrong instead of using a user defined exception. The real problem here is that you appear to be using AssertionError in an inappropriate way. If some caller passes an incorrect argument to your function, raise a ValueError. If you are passed the wrong type of data, raise a TypeError. And so on. Or, as you imply you thought about, raise a user-defined error. Generally speaking you should reserve assert for circumstances where you expect some invariant condition to be true. Otherwise use an if statement and raise some other exception if the condition is True. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: spaces at ends of filenames or directory names on Win32
Jeffrey Schwab wrote: Larry Bates wrote: IMHO leading and/or trailing spaces in filenames is asking for incompatibilities with cross-platform file access. With what platforms specifically? Much like using single-quote in filenames which are perfectly legal in DOS/Windows, but Linux doesn't like much. Uh... What Linux are you using? And what FS? $ touch ' ls ' $ rm ' $ I stand corrected if you put double quotes around filenames it does work. That to me means that single quotes in filenames are somehow different than other characters. You must handle these filenames differently (at least from the command line). Thanks for pointing this out. -Larry Bates -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: spaces at ends of filenames or directory names on Win32
Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:49:31 -0600, Larry Bates wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:30:22 -0600, Larry Bates wrote: How about not naming files with leading and trailing spaces on the Mac? Seems like a bad habit that needs breaking ;-). Why is it a bad habit? Because *Windows* is primitive enough that it can't cope with leading and trailing spaces? I don't see why Windows' lack is Mac users' problem. It is a problem because the poster says it is a problem for him. Absolutely. Now read my statement again. Why is it a problem for the Mac _users_? I use Linux, Windows and Mac, in varying amounts. I'm fully aware of the problems of transferring files from one platform to another. When it affects _me_, I may choose to dumb down to the lowest common denominator so as to save _me_ problems. But wearing my user hat, if a developer came to me telling me I had to avoid using features on my platform of choice in order to make his life easier, I'd say to him So why exactly are we paying you the big bucks? That's your problem, you solve it. I understand you completely, but its a problem for the Mac users because their company needs to do something with their files that is making it hard. I see no difference than if some user chose to use some obscure spreadsheet or wordprocessing program that works extremely well for them but is completely incompatible with all other users in the organization. Why is it their problem? Because it makes it difficult for others to work with their data. I don't believe for a minute you would tell them It is ok to keep using your wordprocessing software, if we can't read the files that's our problem, we will write something to convert them to a more usable format. It will only take about 500/1000/2000 hours to fix for you Mr. _user_. Funny how we got here. I just made a suggestion as to how the user can make the problem go away altogether and my suggestion that it was a bad habit did have a smiley ;-) as you will note. -Larry Bates -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
John Coleman wrote: Bryan Olson wrote: John Coleman wrote: I have a rough classification of languages into 2 classes: Zen languages and tool languages. A tool language is a language that is, well, a *tool* for programming a computer. C is the prototypical tool language. Most languages in the Algol family are tool languages. Visual Basic and Java are also tool languages. On the other hand, a Zen language is a language which is purported to transform your way of thinking about programming. Lisp, Scheme, Forth, Smalltalk and (maybe) C++ are Zen languages. I think that's a horrible classification. Every language is both. Transform your way of thinking from what? There is no distinguished canonical view of what a programming language looks like, from which all others must be strange and wondrous transformations. Lisp and Forth are not tools for programming a computer? Of course they are. Algol and Java don't transform people's thinking about programming? Nonsense. -- --Bryan You seem to have completly overlooked both the hedge word rough in my first sentence and the qualifications in my third paragraph. I probably was not sufficiently clear that I was describing some fairly sunjective impressions. It is a simple observation that devotees of the Scheme language view their language as more than *just* a tool for programming computers. To quote from the introduction to the first edition of SICP: we want to establish the idea that a computer language is not just a way of getting a computer to perform operations but rather that it is a novel formal medium for expressing ideas about methodology (http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html). It is also a simple observation that experts in VBScript *don't* walk around talking like that. Scheme and VBScript are of course both Turing complete, but they seem to have radically different cultures. Do you disagree? Or, if you agree that there is a difference but don't like the words Zen vs. tool to describe it, how would you articulate the difference? Again, just curious. It's a metter of perspective. Python didn't change my thinking about programming. Smalltalk changed my way of thinking about programming very radically. All Python changed my thinking about was how to better program in Python. Python to me just happened to be a very pragmmatic and productive tool for getting the job done. It happens to be comfrotable because large parts of it already fit into my way of thinking from long use in Smalltalk, but my description of Pythong would be 'cleanly practical' not 'zen' -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
looking for a simpe plotting module
i'm pretty much a python beginner so can anyone recommend a plooting package in python ( simple foating numbers that makes lines or dots with a yaxis and an an xaxis.i don't need fancy drawings ) that is a built in module in python ? i am using python 2.4 in linux if that matters. thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
Kay Schluehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have at times the impression that many people who talk about Zen philosophy confuse it with some home brewn mixture of platonism with its transgressive move towards the true reality, a stoic hedonism of contemplation and the taoistic being-in-doing. Zen on the other side is more radical: if you erase yourself there is no-one who is in the flow but chances are that you and the computer over there are the same thing. QOTW or something. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: looking for a simpe plotting module
matplotlib is an excellent library which uses the syntax of matlab plots. http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net O Sáb, 25-02-2006 ás 15:01 -0800, MARK LEEDS escribiu: i'm pretty much a python beginner so can anyone recommend a plooting package in python ( simple foating numbers that makes lines or dots with a yaxis and an an xaxis. i don't need fancy drawings ) that is a built in module in python ? i am using python 2.4 in linux if that matters. thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to send an email with non-ascii characters in Python
2006/2/25, Sybren Stuvel [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Lad enlightened us with:
Body='Rídících Márinka a Školák Kája
Marík'.decode('utf8').encode('windows-1250')# I use the text written
in my editor with utf-8 coding, so first I decode and then encode to
windows-1250
what does a string became when it's decoded?
I mean, it must be encoded in something, right?
--
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Modify the local scope inside a function
Is there a way in python to add the items of a dictionary to the local function scope? i.e. var_foo = dict['var_foo']. I don't know how many items are in this dictionary, or what they are until runtime. exec statements are difficult for debuggers to deal with, so as a workaround I built my code into a function and saved it in a .py file. The I load the .py file as a module and call the function instead. This works great, and it has the added advantage of precompiled versions of the code being saved as .pyc and .pyo files. (faster repeated execution) The only trouble was I execed inside a specially created scope dictionary containing various variables and functions that the code requires. I can't seem to figure out how to get this same effect inside the function. Right now I'm passing the dict as an argument to the function, but I can't modify locals() so it doesn't help me. Thanks, -Sandra -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can optparse do dependencies?
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
I'd like to setup command line switches that are dependent on other
switches, similar to what rpm does listed below. From the grammar
below we see that the query-options are dependent on the query
switch, {-q|--query}. Can optparse do this or do I have to code my
own thing? Thanks.
QUERYING AND VERIFYING PACKAGES:
rpm {-q|--query} [select-options] [query-options]
...
query-options
[--changelog] [-c,--configfiles] [-d,--docfiles] [--dump]
[--filesbypkg] [-i,--info] [--last] [-l,--list]
[--provides] [--qf,--queryformat QUERYFMT]
[-R,--requires] [--scripts] [-s,--state]
[--triggers,--triggerscripts]
The optparse module doesn't have native support for switch
dependencies; however, it could likely be done with multiple passes.
The parse_args() takes an args list as an argument. Make first pass
that captures your main query switches, then run another parser on a
slice of the args list.
For example, capture the main switches on a first pass over the full
argument list (catching all possible main switches and treating
everything else as a catchall). Given, args=['-ql', '--changelog',
'-d', '-c'], parse out the --changelog and then call another parser
with args=['-d', '-c'].
This functionality seems useful enough to build into the tool
directly, so do consider putting a feature request on SourceForge
(and assign to Greg Ward).
In fact, if we were to request an addition to optparse in this direction, I
think it should add standardized support for the subcommand pattern, that is
the same command line arrangement that CVS, SVN and other programs uses. rpm
doesn't use it and I consider this an error in UI design (it should really have
been rpm query --changelog and similar).
--
Giovanni Bajo
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Re: Pure python implementation of string-like class
Akihiro KAYAMA wrote: Sorry for my terrible English. I am living in Japan, and we have a large number of characters called Kanji. UTF-16(U+...U+10) is enough for practical use in this country also, but for academic purpose, I need a large codespace over 20-bits. I wish I could use unicode's private space (U+6000...U+7FFF) in Python. -- kayama I think the Kanji are part of the Han script as far as Unicode is concerned, you should check it (CJK unified ideograms and CJK unified ideograms extension A), they may not all be there, but the 27502 characters from these two tables should be enough for most uses. Oh, by the way, the Unicode code space only goes up to 10, while UCS-4's encoding allows code values up to and including 7FFF the upper Unicode private space is Plane Sixteen (10–10), the other private spaces being a part of the Basic Multilingual Plane (U+E000–U+F8FF) and Plane Fifteen (U+F–U+F) and even UTF-32 doesn't go beyond 10. Since the Dai Kan-Wa jiten only lists about 50,000 kanji (even though it probably isn't perfectly complete) it fits with ease in both plane fifteen and sixteen (65535 code points each). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pure python implementation of string-like class
Ross Ridge wrote: Steve Holden wrote: Wider than UTF-16 doesn't make sense. It makes perfect sense. Ross Ridge Not if you're still within Unicode / Universal Character Set code space. While UCS-4 technically goes beyond any Unicode Transformation Format (UTF-7, 8, 16 and 32 stop at 10) it also goes beyond the range of the UCS itself (0-10). UTF-32 is the limitation of UCS-4 to the Unicode standard. While it could be argued that Unicode/UCS limit of 10 was chosen _because_ of the limitations of UTF-16, It's probably irrelevant to the discussion. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: groupwise send mail
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can someone give me an idea as to why this is not working? The
Recipients.Add line doesnt cause an error, but my recipients arent
being used. The email never gets sent because there is no recipeients.
Thanks,
Eric
import win32com.client
gwApp = win32com.client.Dispatch('NovellGroupWareSession')
acct1 = gwApp.Login(NDS:\\Tree_Name,user.context, )
oMail = acct1.MailBox.Messages.Add (GW.Message.Mail, Draft)
oMail.fromtext = Python Hazmat Script
oMail.Recipients.Add([EMAIL PROTECTED])
oMail.Subject.PlainText = Script error
oMail.BodyText.PlainText = The Python Hazmat script failed
oMail.send
gwApp.quit
Methods must allways have a () in Python to be called
oMail.send()
gwApp.quit()
Otherwise you are just adressing the objects
eg. this is perfectly ok:
send = oMail.send
send()
or
q = gwApp.quit
q()
--
hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark
http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science
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Re: spaces at ends of filenames or directory names on Win32
Larry Bates wrote: Jeffrey Schwab wrote: Larry Bates wrote: IMHO leading and/or trailing spaces in filenames is asking for incompatibilities with cross-platform file access. With what platforms specifically? Much like using single-quote in filenames which are perfectly legal in DOS/Windows, but Linux doesn't like much. Uh... What Linux are you using? And what FS? $ touch ' ls ' $ rm ' $ I stand corrected if you put double quotes around filenames it does work. That to me means that single quotes in filenames are somehow different than other characters. You must handle these filenames differently (at least from the command line). Thanks for pointing this out. Sure, no problem. FYI, the quotes are to keep my shell, which happens to be bash, from trying to interpret the quote. If I were renaming a file by clicking the icon in a Windows-like GUI, or using a file manager, there would be no need for the quote. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
xslt queries in xml to SQL queries
Hello, I want to embed SQL type queries within an XML data record. The XML looks something like this: DISPLAYPAGE FIELD NAME=SERVER TYPE=DROPDOWN OPTION1OPTION OPTION2OPTION OPTION3OPTION /FIELD /DISPLAYPAGE I want to populate the drop down options from a database. The table looks like this (example): CREATE TABLE options_table ( id int primary key, namevarchar(255), field varchar(255) ) I read an article that would allow me to embed an SQL query using XSLT like this (in place of OPTIONS): xslt:template match=options_table[field='SERVER'] OPTIONxslt:value-of select=name/text()//OPTION /xslt:template Which would be equivalent of: SELECT name FROM options_table WHERE field='SERVER'; Does anyone else have experience of describing SQL queries in XML or parsing XSLT in python? -- To mail remove REMOVEME. from address. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pure python implementation of string-like class
Xavier Morel wrote: Not if you're still within Unicode / Universal Character Set code space. Akihiro Kayama in his original post made it clear that he wanted to use a character set larger than entire Unicode code space. Ross Ridge -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ImportError in Unpickle
Hi, I have a python script that pickles and unpickles a give object. It works without any problems on windows (the data was pickled on windows first). But when I try to run the script on Linux, I get the following error: mydbinfo = pickle.Unpickler(f).load() File /usr/lib/python2.3/pickle.py, line 872, in load dispatch[key](self) File /usr/lib/python2.3/pickle.py, line 1083, in load_inst klass = self.find_class(module, name) File /usr/lib/python2.3/pickle.py, line 1138, in find_class __import__(module) ImportError: No module named __main__ Even running the script with cygwin's python results in same error. It looks me to be some problem with path setting for finding modules. Can someone shed more light? Thanks in advance, Raghu. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Optimize flag question
Steve Holden wrote: Some other functions rely on the AssertionError exception to indicate to the user that something went wrong instead of using a user defined exception. The real problem here is that you appear to be using AssertionError in an inappropriate way. If some caller passes an incorrect argument to your function, raise a ValueError. If you are passed the wrong type of data, raise a TypeError. And so on. Or, as you imply you thought about, raise a user-defined error. Generally speaking you should reserve assert for circumstances where you expect some invariant condition to be true. Otherwise use an if statement and raise some other exception if the condition is True. What would be the occasion that AssertionError be the right exception to raise then ? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
How to Mount/Unmount Drives on Windows?
Hello, I am creating a simple application that will reside in the Windows system tray. The purpose of the program is to mount or unmount external hard drives or flash memory devices, and to set their default states (ie mounted or unmounted) at startup. I do not know how to mount or unmount drives on Windows. I think that it could possibly be done with a DOS command (using os.system()). Thank you for any information you may have. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Pythonic exceptionalism (was: A C-like if statement)
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steven D'Aprano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:04:38 -0700, Bob Greschke wrote: try: i = a.find(3) print It's here: , i except NotFound: print No 3's here Nuts. I guess you're right. It wouldn't be proper. Things are added or proposed every day for Python that I can't even pronounce, but a simple 'if (I = a.find(3)) != -1' isn't allowed. Huh. It might be time to go back to BASIC. :) There are *reasons* why Python discourages functions with side-effects. Side-effects make your code hard to test and harder to debug. I think your way would work if .find() were replaced with .index(). I'm just trying to clean up an if/elif tree a bit, so using try would make things bigger. Then write a function! Instead of calling the try..except block in every branch directly, pull it out into a function: def test(s,what): try: i = s.index(what) print It's here: , i except ValueError: print No 3's here . . . A recent piece by Collin Park URL: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8794 illustrates how a user-defined exception arises so naturally in a tiny toy example that it occurs to a teenager first program- ming. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to Mount/Unmount Drives on Windows?
This looks like it might help you ... http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=311272 ... although the blurb does say DevCon is not redistributable. It is provided for use as a debugging and development tool. There is an article about it at ... http://tinyurl.com/4kb8m regards richard. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Temporary Variable
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:08:22 -0800, darthbob88 wrote: Reply to all: I realize that naming a variable spam is not entirely kosherized. It was originally named secret, but I renamed it in a fit of whimsy. The language is named after Monty Python's Flying Circus, is it not? Remember the Spam Sketch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_sketch Absolutely! And it is a fine thing to use Monty Python references as generic variables in Python, instead of foo, bar, baz and so forth. All up, I'm surprised at the fuss made over a throw-away line. I thank you for finding the problem; I thought it might involve string v int comparisons when Comrade D'Eprano's code went wonky. My code went wonky? Many thanks, and good luck to you. PS: As for the inappropriate naming, the Swedes tried to sell their vacuums under the motto Nothing sucks like an Electrolux. Which is a wonderful, deliberately ironic advertising line. I love it!!! -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Temporary Variable
On 24 Feb 2006 14:08:22 -0800 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reply to all: I realize that naming a variable spam is not entirely kosherized. In fact this is untrue: It is an official rule straight from the BDFL himself that example programs should contain words like spam, ham, eggs from the spam sketch. Other Monty Python sketch variables are acceptable as well. This in contrast to longstanding programmer practice to use the names foo and bar etc. Ironically, in introducing Python 2.5 features in his key note, he consistently used foo and bar himself. My faith is so shaken. ;-) Cheers, Terry Hancock -- Terry Hancock ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.AnansiSpaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Optimize flag question
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:56:42 -0800, bonono wrote: Steve Holden wrote: Some other functions rely on the AssertionError exception to indicate to the user that something went wrong instead of using a user defined exception. The real problem here is that you appear to be using AssertionError in an inappropriate way. If some caller passes an incorrect argument to your function, raise a ValueError. If you are passed the wrong type of data, raise a TypeError. And so on. Or, as you imply you thought about, raise a user-defined error. Generally speaking you should reserve assert for circumstances where you expect some invariant condition to be true. Otherwise use an if statement and raise some other exception if the condition is True. What would be the occasion that AssertionError be the right exception to raise then ? Surely that would be when an assert statement fails? I don't think AssertionError should be called by hand. At least, I wouldn't do so. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python a Zen language?
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 06:09:16 -0800, John Coleman wrote: Greetings, I have a rough classification of languages into 2 classes: Zen languages and tool languages. A tool language is a language that is, well, a *tool* for programming a computer. C is the prototypical tool language. Most languages in the Algol family are tool languages. Visual Basic and Java are also tool languages. On the other hand, a Zen language is a language which is purported to transform your way of thinking about programming. Lisp, Scheme, Forth, Smalltalk and (maybe) C++ are Zen languages. Disciples acknowledge that it is difficult to pick up these languages but claim that, if you persevere, you sooner or later reach a state of computational satori in which it all makes sense. Interestingly enough, these languages often have books which approach scriptural status e.g. SICP for Scheme. So (assuming my classification makes sense) which is Python? Why can't it be both? Why do you think Zen and tool are two different *kinds* of language, rather than just two extremes of a single continuum? There are two kinds of people: those who divide the world into false dichotomies, and those who don't. *wink* This is probably because I am not a programmer (I'm a mathematician who likes to program as a hobby and for numerical simulations) and so don't have the time to invest in picking up a Zen language. Hard-core hackers might presumably lean towards the Zen languages. Regardless of whether Python is a Zen or tool language, or both, or something else, it is incredibly easy to pick up. Just remember, and this goes for *any* new language you are trying to learn, Python is not C/Java/VB/Fortran/Lisp/Ada/whatever language you already know. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to send an email with non-ascii characters in Python
Gabriel B. wrote:
what does a string became when it's decoded?
I mean, it must be encoded in something, right?
Unicode, for encodings like latin-1 or utf-8. A few special cases like
str.decode('string_escape') yield byte strings again.
Kent
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Re: Modify the local scope inside a function
Here you go. Unfortunate that you can't modify locals() easily, but
there are other options.
def foo(d):
for k in d:
exec '%s = %s' % (k, repr(d[k]))
print a + b
foo({'a':1, 'b':2})
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Re: Is Python a Zen language?
Kay Schluehr wrote: John Coleman wrote: Ron Stephens wrote: Actually, Python has the distinction of being both a great tool language *and* a great Zen language. That's what makes Python so cool ;-))) Ron Stephens Python411 www.awaretek.com/python/index.html This would explain why the question is so hard to answer. It is a slam-dunk that Lisp is Zen and VBA is tool - but python really is a bit hard to classify. This is somewhat similar to the way that python seems to straddle the gap between imperative and functional languages. It has something from each worlds (whether it has the *best* from each world is a separate question) -John Coleman There is something that worries me about Lisp. If you are interested in the history of Lisp and some non-technical aspects of its culture I can recommend the writings of Richard Gabriel, who was one of the leaders of the CL standardisation commitee and founder of the Lisp company Lucid in the mid 80s that gone down a few years later. As it turned out that time Lisp was not capable to survive in what we call today a heterogenous environment. It was strongly too self-centered. So I would actually invert you categories and say that a good tool achieves to have a non-dual nature instead of a strong I. With Lisp you might be a god but according to the Zen philosophy a god is a subordinated character that preserves the illusion of self-identity. A fine thing about a tool in this context is that you have to define its identity by a relationship to something that it is not. I have at times the impression that many people who talk about Zen philosophy confuse it with some home brewn mixture of platonism with its transgressive move towards the true reality, a stoic hedonism of contemplation and the taoistic being-in-doing. Zen on the other side is more radical: if you erase yourself there is no-one who is in the flow but chances are that you and the computer over there are the same thing. Kay Too right. If programming language was Zen there would be no keyboards, just a telepathic interface. But I have to admit I enjoy a solidly platonic relationship with Python. I prefer to write things in the most beautiful way rather than in the most efficient. Its cost me a couple jobs, but the integrity of the product always remains intact. The Eternal Squire -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Looking a device up in the Running Object Table
I'm looking to disable Windows autoplay for a particular device. There's a registry key (HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\AutoplayHandlers\CancelAutoplay\CLSID) that will turn off autoplay for listed devices, but one must provide the device's CLSID as it appears in the ROT. I use the wmi module (http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi.html) to discover the device's GUID, but I don't know enough about COM to look it up in the ROT. Is there a difference between the GUID and the CLSID in the ROT, or am I just not using the registry correctly? Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Modify the local scope inside a function
Sandra-24 wrote: Is there a way in python to add the items of a dictionary to the local function scope? i.e. var_foo = dict['var_foo']. I don't know how many items are in this dictionary, or what they are until runtime. Why do you want to do this? Exec and eval should -not- be used for this unless you are specifically creating a system allows arbitrary code execution. What's wrong with using a dictionary? It's much safer than allowing arbitrary names to be injected into a namespace. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
