Re: Is Django the way to go for a newbie?
There are lots of Web Frameworks. https://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks lists some of them. I wouldn't place too much faith in the classification of some as 'Popular' and others as 'Regarded as Less Popular' -- I keep getting the itch to put a wikipedia style footnote (by whom) -- in my corner of the world Zope 2 and Pylons are very popular, and Pyramid which is the successor to Pylons is rather more popular than either. All 3 of them are more popular around here than web2py (which is also popular, just not at much) and I don't know anybody who is using Turbogears at all. (Pyramid is listed under the 'non full stack frameworks' but if I had been making the list it would be under full stack; maybe the list got made when Pyramid was more incomplete.) The most important consideration when choosing a web framework is whether you have somebody local who can help you, in person, with the thing. If you have such a person, and they prefer a certain Framework, go for that one. Otherwise there really isn't a thing to do but build a small example and see how you like it. Because they actually play quite differently. They are designed by people to make things most convenient for the way they like to work, to expose the complexity that they want control over and hide the stuff they don't. This means, for instance that the very things that web2py lovers like the best about their framework is precisely what the people who dislike web2py hate about it -- and the same is true for Django, and all down the list. Remember that the people who love Django (for instance) are all quite happy to write blog posts about their happiness, while the people who find writing Django code most unpleasant don't tend to talk about it. They just find something they like better, and use it. You will be happiest with the one that fits your brain best, but alas it is hard to know what that will be before you try it. But there is one major split you probably know about yourself when figuring out what to try first. If you are the sort of person who takes great comfort from the knowledge that 'all the batteries are included' and that you will never _outgrow_ your framework, should you need to do some new thing with it, the components will already be there, then you will prefer a full stack framework. The disadvantage in using a comprehensive framework like that is that you will have much less flexibility in how you do things -- you will have to do Django things the Django way, and web2py things the web2py way, etc. And things will be much more complicated. But if you are naturally inclined towards comprehensive solutions, start playing with the Full Stack Frameworks. If you throw up your hands and say 'this is all too complicated!' you can then try something simpler. If, on the other hand, your natural inclination is to dislike comprehensive solutions because you always want to go after the _simplest_ thing that can work, then you should start playing with Micro frameworks. And if you throw up your hands saying 'But this thing barely has support for anything! I don't want to have to write my own , , and ' then you can try something more comprehensive. Sorry not to be more helpful, but this is very much one of the cases where 'it depends' and it very much 'depends on you'. Laura -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Django the way to go for a newbie?
Thank you, Chris! Good input. I was a computer software consulting for 20 years, ending in 1987, whrn I changed my career to life coaching (which I have now done happily for 28 years). So now I going back to learn a new language freshly (much different than COBOL and BASIC!). I am working on a long-term project to create an ³automated life coaching² website. BIG SMILE... Always, Dwight www.3forliving.key.to (video playlist on YouTube) www.couragebooks.key.to (all my books on Amazon) On 8/9/15, 12:44 PM, "Chris Angelico" wrote: >On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Dwight GoldWinde >wrote: >> I am both new to Python and I haven¹t even touched Django yet. >> >> I understand I that I need Django or something like it to develop my >> website. >> >> From what I have read, Python and Django somewhat go together. >> >> Is that true? >> >> Or is there another development platform better for someone like me than >> Django? > >Django is quite big and powerful, but if your needs are simple, you >could consider something a bit simpler. I've used Flask for a couple >of web sites, and have worked with a number of students who've used it >successfully. > >My recommendation: Learn Python first, and worry about web frameworks >later. Once you have the basics of the language under your belt, >you'll be better able to judge what works and what doesn't for the web >site you're trying to build. > >Do you have a background in other programming languages, or are you >new to programming as a whole? > >ChrisA >-- >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Django the way to go for a newbie?
On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Dwight GoldWinde wrote: > I am both new to Python and I haven’t even touched Django yet. > > I understand I that I need Django or something like it to develop my > website. > > From what I have read, Python and Django somewhat go together. > > Is that true? > > Or is there another development platform better for someone like me than > Django? Django is quite big and powerful, but if your needs are simple, you could consider something a bit simpler. I've used Flask for a couple of web sites, and have worked with a number of students who've used it successfully. My recommendation: Learn Python first, and worry about web frameworks later. Once you have the basics of the language under your belt, you'll be better able to judge what works and what doesn't for the web site you're trying to build. Do you have a background in other programming languages, or are you new to programming as a whole? ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Is Django the way to go for a newbie?
I am both new to Python and I haven¹t even touched Django yet. I understand I that I need Django or something like it to develop my website. >From what I have read, Python and Django somewhat go together. Is that true? Or is there another development platform better for someone like me than Django? Any and all feedback or questions are much appreciated. BIG SMILE... Always, Dwight www.3forliving.key.to (video playlist on YouTube) www.couragebooks.key.to (all my books on Amazon) -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015, at 13:59, Laurent Pointal wrote: > > Level? > > Graduate (post-Bac in france) Yours or your students? > > 1. Are you > > grade school (1=12)? > > (sorry, I dont know correspondance in france) Grade 12 refers to 17-18 year old students, each grade is one year. > > undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? > > post-graduate (from whatever)? > > I'm senior developer. Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, and Senior conventionally refer to each of the years of a conventional four-year bachelor's degree at a university (Also to grades 9-12 in high school, but in context that seems not to be what's meant here). -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Devanagari int literals [was Re: Should non-security 2.7 bugs be fixed?]
Marko Rauhamaa :
> Steven D'Aprano :
>
>> The contemporary standard approach is from Zermelo-Fraenkel set
>> theory: define 0 as the empty set, and the successor to n as the
>> union of n and the set containing n:
>>
>> 0 = {} (the empty set)
>> n + 1 = n ∪ {n}
>
> That definition barely captures the essence of what a number *is*. In
> fact, there have been different formulations of natural numbers.
Rehashing this old discussion. I ran into this wonderful website:
http://at.metamath.org/mpeuni/mmset.html>
It is an absolute treasure for those of us who hate handwaving in math
textbooks. The database of computer-checked theorems proves everything
starting from the very bottom.
An interesting, recurring dividing line among the proofs is a layer of
"provable" axioms. For example, this proof
http://at.metamath.org/mpeuni/2p2e4.html
(for "⊢ (2 + 2) = 4") references the axiom (http://at.metamath.org/mpeuni/ax-1cn.html>):
⊢ 1 ∈ ℂ
The axiom is "justified by" a set-theoretic theorem:
Description: 1 is a complex number. Axiom 2 of 22 for real and
complex numbers, derived from ZF set theory. This
construction-dependent theorem should not be referenced directly;
instead, use ax-1cn 7963.
http://at.metamath.org/mpeuni/ax1cn.html>
In other words, since there is no canonical way to define numbers in set
theory, Metamath insulates its proofs from a particular definition by
circumscribing numbers with construction-independent axioms.
Anyway, ob. Python reference:
Using the design ideas implemented in Metamath, Raph Levien has
implemented what might be the smallest proof checker in the world,
mmverify.py, at only 500 lines of Python code.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamath>
Marko
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
Terry Reedy wrote: > There have been discussions, such as today on Idle-sig , about who uses > Idle and who we should design it for. If you use Idle in any way, or > know of or teach classes using Idle, please answer as many of the > questions below as you are willing, and as are appropriate I think they take a look at idlex http://idlex.sourceforge.net/ > Private answers are welcome. They will be deleted as soon as they are > tallied (without names). > > I realized that this list is a biased sample of the universe of people > who have studied Python at least, say, a month. But biased data should > be better than my current vague impressions. > > 0. Classes where Idle is used: > Where? IUT Orsay, Mesures Physiques, for teaching Python as programming language. > Level? Graduate (post-Bac in france) > Idle users: > > 1. Are you > grade school (1=12)? (sorry, I dont know correspondance in france) > undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? > post-graduate (from whatever)? I'm senior developer. > 2. Are you > beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? > post-beginner? Post-beginner. > 3. With respect to programming, are you > amateur (unpaid) > professional (paid for programming) Pro. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Linux users: please run gui tests
Tried this on a different debian unstable system. lac@fido:~$ lsb_release -a No LSB modules are available. Distributor ID:Debian Description: Debian GNU/Linux unstable (sid) Release: unstable Codename: sid lac@fido:~$ Same 3 errors. (So it is not just me.) Laura -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Linux users: please run gui tests
Ok, I moved to debian unstable (stretch/sid) lac@smartwheels:~$ lsb_release -a LSB Version: core-2.0-amd64:core-2.0-noarch:core-3.0-amd64:core-3.0-noarch:core-3.1-amd64:core-3.1-noarch:core-3.2-amd64:core-3.2-noarch:core-4.0-amd64:core-4.0-noarch:core-4.1-amd64:core-4.1-noarch:security-4.0-amd64:security-4.0-noarch:security-4.1-amd64:security-4.1-noarch Distributor ID:Debian Description: Debian GNU/Linux unstable (sid) Release: unstable Codename: sid I still get the same 3 errors. Laura -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python-matplotlib changes very often?
On Saturday 8 Aug 2015 11:17 CEST, Laura Creighton wrote: > In a message of Sat, 08 Aug 2015 10:41:39 +0200, Cecil Westerhof > writes: >> On openSUSE I see python-matplotlib updated very often. Sometimes >> more as once a week. It is also not very small (almost 40 MB). Is >> there a reason for this, or is there a problem at SUSE? >> >> -- >> Cecil Westerhof >> Senior Software Engineer >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof >> -- >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > Debian isn't sending me updates that often, but the matplotlib folks > are quite busy. https://github.com/matplotlib/matplotlib/pulse Well, I should not be to concerned with it then I suppose. ;-) But using patch files would clearly be an improvement I think. But nothing to be bash the people at SUSE over, -- Cecil Westerhof Senior Software Engineer LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python-matplotlib changes very often?
On Aug 8, 2015 10:46, "Cecil Westerhof" wrote: > > On openSUSE I see python-matplotlib updated very often. Sometimes more > as once a week. It is also not very small (almost 40 MB). Is there a > reason for this, or is there a problem at SUSE? I assume you are using tumbleweed and/or devel:languages:python? matplotlib has quite a few dependencies, and many of those have dependencies of their own. Whenever a dependency of a package is updated the open build service openSUSE uses for packaging the package is also updated. So it isn't really matplotlib getting updates, but rather the packages it depends on (or packages they depend on, and so on). And none of those are updated very often, there are just a lot if them. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python-matplotlib changes very often?
In a message of Sat, 08 Aug 2015 10:41:39 +0200, Cecil Westerhof writes: >On openSUSE I see python-matplotlib updated very often. Sometimes more >as once a week. It is also not very small (almost 40 MB). Is there a >reason for this, or is there a problem at SUSE? > >-- >Cecil Westerhof >Senior Software Engineer >LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof >-- >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Debian isn't sending me updates that often, but the matplotlib folks are quite busy. https://github.com/matplotlib/matplotlib/pulse Laura -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: except block isn't catching exception
On 08Aug2015 18:17, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote: From: https://docs.python.org/3/library/signal.html#execution-of-python-signal-handlers we have: A Python signal handler does not get executed inside the low-level (C) signal handler. Instead, the low-level signal handler sets a flag which tells the virtual machine to execute the corresponding Python signal handler at a later point(for example at the next bytecode instruction). Ah, thanks. Most importantly, though: Is there anything in the *language spec*, or is this a CPython implementation detail? Signals aren't part of the language spec, surely? Though part of the stdlib clearly. I'd say the above text from the signal module doco was written from the viewport of CPython, though it is loose enough in terminology (==> allows freedom to implementors) to read like generic Python spec than CPython detail. The other bit of text I quoted: Python signal handlers are always executed in the main Python thread, even if the signal was received in another thread. also reads like specification. No, I can't prove any of this. It is just how I read the signal module documentation. Cheers, Cameron Simpson No good deed shall go unpunished! - David Wood -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
python-matplotlib changes very often?
On openSUSE I see python-matplotlib updated very often. Sometimes more as once a week. It is also not very small (almost 40 MB). Is there a reason for this, or is there a problem at SUSE? -- Cecil Westerhof Senior Software Engineer LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: except block isn't catching exception
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote: > From: > > > https://docs.python.org/3/library/signal.html#execution-of-python-signal-handlers > > we have: > > A Python signal handler does not get executed inside the low-level (C) > signal handler. Instead, the low-level signal handler sets a flag which > tells the virtual machine to execute the corresponding Python signal > handler at a later point(for example at the next bytecode instruction). Ah, thanks. Most importantly, though: Is there anything in the *language spec*, or is this a CPython implementation detail? ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: except block isn't catching exception
On 08Aug2015 17:08, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Ian Kelly wrote: On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 8:44 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: The exception isn't happening inside sock.accept(), as I explained. So you can't catch it there. Where does the exception happen then? Your explanation only covered why the blocking call cannot be interrupted by it, not why the exception isn't simply raised when the blocking call finishes. I'm not sure there's anything in the language spec about it; at least, I can't find it. But the last time I was digging in the Python/C API, there was a caveat that KeyboardInterrupt was raised *at some point after* Ctrl-C was hit - a flag gets set, and after every N bytecode instructions, the flag is checked, and then the signal gets raised. It might happen on only some platforms, and I can't even find back the page I was looking at when I read that. Maybe someone else knows? From: https://docs.python.org/3/library/signal.html#execution-of-python-signal-handlers we have: A Python signal handler does not get executed inside the low-level (C) signal handler. Instead, the low-level signal handler sets a flag which tells the virtual machine to execute the corresponding Python signal handler at a later point(for example at the next bytecode instruction). and in the next section "Signals and threads" it says: Python signal handlers are always executed in the main Python thread, even if the signal was received in another thread. Cheers, Cameron Simpson Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Linux users: please run gui tests
Laura Creighton wrote: >>This leads me to believe that your tests and the tkinter shared library >>may not match. Does >> >>$ python3 -c 'import _tkinter; print(_tkinter)' >>>dynload/_tkinter.cpython-34m-x86_64-linux-gnu.so'> >> >>show something suspicious? > > lac@smartwheels:~$ python3 -c 'import _tkinter; print(_tkinter)' > '/usr/lib/python3.4/lib-dynload/_tkinter.cpython-34m-x86_64-linux-gnu.so'> I hate to say it, but at the moment I'm out of ideas on what to investigate. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: except block isn't catching exception
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 8:44 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> The exception isn't happening inside sock.accept(), as I explained. So >> you can't catch it there. > > Where does the exception happen then? Your explanation only covered > why the blocking call cannot be interrupted by it, not why the > exception isn't simply raised when the blocking call finishes. > I'm not sure there's anything in the language spec about it; at least, I can't find it. But the last time I was digging in the Python/C API, there was a caveat that KeyboardInterrupt was raised *at some point after* Ctrl-C was hit - a flag gets set, and after every N bytecode instructions, the flag is checked, and then the signal gets raised. It might happen on only some platforms, and I can't even find back the page I was looking at when I read that. Maybe someone else knows? ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
