Re: Instagram: 40% Py3 to 99% Py3 in 10 months (Posting On Python-List Prohibited)
On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 21:45:09 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes:
>> Is Python 2 the Windows XP of the programming world?
>
> That's a good way to put it. It's nice to hear about Instagram but so
> far I don't personally know anyone who uses Python 3.
Funny about that, I don't personally know anyone who uses Java or C++.
You should check out Reddit's /r/python, it has a reputation for being
(unreasonably, obnoxiously) pro-Python 3 even when people have a good
reason for sticking with Python 1.
I mean 2.
> Meanwhile there's still lots of new Py2 projects being started.
Unless that project is extremely small, or a throw-away ("we need it for
three months, then it's obsolete"[1]), I consider starting new projects
in Python 2 to be borderline professional misconduct, unless there's a
genuinely good reason.
(Which might include "the customer insists", or "yeah, I know it sucks,
but politics".)
In less than three years time, 2.7 will no longer be receiving support or
bug fixes from the Python core devs. There will still be paid support
from third parties available for a few years after that, but this is
starting to limit your options.
(E.g. are you willing to tell your clients to move their servers to RHEL
so they can pay for Red Hat support for Python 2.7?)
At this point, any Python developer who isn't recommending Python 3 as
the default choice is doing their clients a professional disservice, in
my opinion.
It's still okay to use 2.7 if you have a good reason, or a bad reason for
that matter, hell if you want to use 1.5 go right ahead, it's free
software. But 2.7 should not be any professional Python developer's
default recommendation any longer.
https://pythonclock.org/
--
Steve
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Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
Cem Karan writes: > Can you give examples of how it's not reliable? Basically there's a chance of it leaking memory by mistaking a data word for a pointer. This is unlikely to happen by accident and usually inconsequential if it does happen, but maybe there could be malicious data that makes it happen Also, it's a non-compacting gc that has to touch all the garbage as it sweeps, not a reliability issue per se, but not great for performance especially in large, long-running systems. It's brilliant though. It's one of those things that seemingly can't possibly work, but it turns out to be quite effective. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
Chris Angelico writes: > Or let's look at it a different way. Instead of using a PyObject* in C > code, you could write C++ code that uses a trivial wrapper class that > holds the pointer, increments its refcount on construction, and > decrements that refcount on destruction. That's the C++ STL shared_ptr template. Unfortunately it has the same problem as Python refcounts, i.e. it has to use locks to maintain thread safety, which slows it down significantly. The simplest way to start experimenting with GC in Python might be to redefine the refcount macros to do nothing, connect the allocator to the Boehm GC, and stop all the threads when GC time comes. I don't know if Guile has threads at all, but I know it uses the Boehm GC and it's quite effective. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Instagram: 40% Py3 to 99% Py3 in 10 months (Posting On Python-List Prohibited)
Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes: > Is Python 2 the Windows XP of the programming world? That's a good way to put it. It's nice to hear about Instagram but so far I don't personally know anyone who uses Python 3. Meanwhile there's still lots of new Py2 projects being started. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: > Saw this this morning > https://medium.com/@alexdixon/functional-programming-in-javascript-is-an-antipattern-58526819f21e > > May seem irrelevant to this, but if JS, FP is replaced by Python, GC it > becomes > more on topical https://rhettinger.wordpress.com/2011/05/26/super-considered-super/ If super() is replaced with GC, it also becomes on-topic. I'm sure all this has some deep existential meaning about how easily blog posts can be transplanted into utterly unrelated conversations, but at the moment, it eludes me. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 at 5:53:00 AM UTC+5:30, Cem Karan wrote: > On Jun 19, 2017, at 6:19 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote: > > > Ethan Furman wrote: > >> Let me ask a different question: How much effort is required at the C > >> level when using tracing garbage collection? > > > > That depends on the details of the GC implementation, but often > > you end up swapping one form of boilerplate (maintaining ref > > counts) for another (such as making sure the GC system knows > > about all the temporary references you're using). > > > > Some, such as the Bohm collector, try to figure it all out > > automagically, but they rely on non-portable tricks and aren't > > totally reliable. > > Can you give examples of how it's not reliable? I'm currently using it in > one of my projects, so if it has problems, I need to know about them. Saw this this morning https://medium.com/@alexdixon/functional-programming-in-javascript-is-an-antipattern-58526819f21e May seem irrelevant to this, but if JS, FP is replaced by Python, GC it becomes more on topical -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
On Jun 19, 2017, at 6:19 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Ethan Furman wrote: >> Let me ask a different question: How much effort is required at the C level >> when using tracing garbage collection? > > That depends on the details of the GC implementation, but often > you end up swapping one form of boilerplate (maintaining ref > counts) for another (such as making sure the GC system knows > about all the temporary references you're using). > > Some, such as the Bohm collector, try to figure it all out > automagically, but they rely on non-portable tricks and aren't > totally reliable. Can you give examples of how it's not reliable? I'm currently using it in one of my projects, so if it has problems, I need to know about them. On the main topic: I think that a good tracing garbage collector would probably be a good idea. I've been having a real headache binding python to my C library via ctypes, and a large part of that problem is that I've got two different garbage collectors (python and bdwgc). I think I've got it worked out at this point, but it would have been convenient to get memory allocated from python's garbage collected heap on the C-side. Lot fewer headaches. Thanks, Cem Karan -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
Ethan Furman wrote: Let me ask a different question: How much effort is required at the C level when using tracing garbage collection? That depends on the details of the GC implementation, but often you end up swapping one form of boilerplate (maintaining ref counts) for another (such as making sure the GC system knows about all the temporary references you're using). Some, such as the Bohm collector, try to figure it all out automagically, but they rely on non-portable tricks and aren't totally reliable. -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 1:44 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote: > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: > >> Programming at the C level is not working in Python, and many Python >> niceties simply don't exist there. > > > True, but a lot of functionality available to Python programmers exists at > the extension module level, whether delivered as part of the core > distribution or from third-party sources. (The core CPython test suite > spends a fair amount of effort on leak detection, one side effect of > incorrect reference counting.) While programming in Python you don't need > to worry about reference counting errors, when they slip through from the C > level, they affect you. High level languages mean that you don't have to write C code. Does the presence of core code and/or extension modules written in C mean that Python isn't a high level language? No. And nor does that code mean Python isn't garbage-collected. Everything has to have an implementation somewhere. Or let's look at it a different way. Instead of using a PyObject* in C code, you could write C++ code that uses a trivial wrapper class that holds the pointer, increments its refcount on construction, and decrements that refcount on destruction. That way, you can simply declare these PyObjectWrappers and let them expire. Does that mean that suddenly the refcounting isn't your responsibility, ergo it's now a garbage collector? Because the transformation is trivially easy. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
PyCon.DE 2017 - Call for Proposals
Call for Proposals -- The Call for Proposals for the PyCon.DE 2017 is open until July 30, 2017. Please submit your proposals here: https://www.papercall.io/pyconde2017 We’re looking for proposals on every aspect of Python: programming from novice to advanced levels, applications and frameworks, or how you have been involved in introducing Python into your organization. PyCon.DE is a community conference and we are eager to hear about your experience. The conference will be held in English language only. The conferences addresses: * Data Scientists * Software Developers * System Administrators * Academic Scientists * Technology Enthusiasts We are looking for: * 30 minute presentations (incl. optional 5 minute Q&A) * 45 minute presentations (incl. optional 5 minute Q&A) PyData @ PyConDE 2017 There will be a PyData track at this year’s conference. Please submit your papers for the PyData track through the PyConDE form. About PyCon.DE 2017 --- The next PyCon.DE will be held from 25-27th October 2017 at the ZKM - Center for Art and Media in Karlsruhe, Germany [1]. The conference is the sixth in this series, gathering Python professionals and enthusiasts. The conference language will English, attracting Pythonistas from all over Europe and the world. Volunteers organize and provide talks, tutorials, as well as discussions in an open-source fashion. This Karlsruhe conference has a special focus on data science. Therefore, a PyData conference is held as part of PyCon.DE. PyData [2] is an internationally renowned conference series, which is dedicated to data science, machine learning, and AI. The ZKM - Center for Art and the Media is a unique cultural institution, as it is a place that extends the original tasks of the museum. It is a home of all media and genres, a house of both the traditional arts like painting, photography, and sculpture as well as the time-based arts such as film, video, media art, music, dance, theater, and performance. Conference registration is open. Don't miss this event! More information available at: http://www.pycon.de [1] http://zkm.de [2] http://pydata.org -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Project Structure
I'm working on a project ( https://github.com/NJDFan/register-maps
http://register-maps.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ ) and running into some
issues with overall project structure and documentation.
The project is a code generator that reads in a set of proprietary
format XML files and uses them to generate output in any number of
languages (C, Python, VHDL) as well as HTML documentation. Input is an
entire directory, output is an entire directory.
registermap ./data/src --format=html --output=../docs/html
One of the things I'd like to do is to write a boilerplate README.rst
into the target directory. I also have Sphinx documentation; I'd like
to incorporate all those READMEs into the HTML docs. I'd also like to
have something like a
registermap --format-help vhdl
Which displays the appropriate README, ideally neatly formatted for the
terminal and running through a pager. You know, civilized.
So, right now I have a project setup which is
./
doc/
...
registermaps/
__init__.py
...
resource/
vhdl/
README.rst
...
html/
README.rst
style.css
...
README.rst
setup.py
...
Output classes have a .outputname, which is both the command-line output
name ('html') and the directory under resource that all the stuff is in.
I have a utility function in the module that allows those classes to
register themselves against that name for the command-line tool.
Resources are accessed through pkg_resource.resource_string internal to
the program, and the READMEs get pulled into the Sphinx docs by having a
doc/source/outputs.rst full of include directives like
.. include:: ../../registermaps/resource/html/README.rst
I still don't have any kind of standard way of pretty-printing and
paging the reST to the terminal. And, more the point, this all feels
VERY tangled. Like there's something that other people just know to do
and I missed the memo. Anyone have any ideas on a cleaner implementation?
--
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order. See above to fix.
--
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Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
On 06/19/2017 08:44 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote: On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: Programming at the C level is not working in Python, and many Python niceties simply don't exist there. True, but a lot of functionality available to Python programmers exists at the extension module level, whether delivered as part of the core distribution or from third-party sources. (The core CPython test suite spends a fair amount of effort on leak detection, one side effect of incorrect reference counting.) While programming in Python you don't need to worry about reference counting errors, when they slip through from the C level, they affect you. Let me ask a different question: How much effort is required at the C level when using tracing garbage collection? -- ~Ethan~ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: > Programming at the C level is not working in Python, and many Python > niceties simply don't exist there. True, but a lot of functionality available to Python programmers exists at the extension module level, whether delivered as part of the core distribution or from third-party sources. (The core CPython test suite spends a fair amount of effort on leak detection, one side effect of incorrect reference counting.) While programming in Python you don't need to worry about reference counting errors, when they slip through from the C level, they affect you. Skip -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
On 06/19/2017 08:06 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote: On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: Reference counting is a valid garbage collecting mechanism, therefore Python is also a GC language. Garbage collection is usually thought of as a way to remove responsibility for tracking of live data from the user. Reference counting doesn't do that. Caveat: I'm not a CS major. Question: In the same way that Object Orientation is usually thought of as data hiding? Comment: Except in rare cases (e.g. messing with __del__), the Python user does not have to think about nor manage live data, so reference counting seems to meet that requirement. Programming at the C level is not working in Python, and many Python niceties simply don't exist there. -- ~Ethan~ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: > Reference counting is a valid garbage collecting mechanism, therefore > Python is also a GC language. Garbage collection is usually thought of as a way to remove responsibility for tracking of live data from the user. Reference counting doesn't do that. Skip -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 7:40:49 PM UTC+5:30, Robin Becker wrote: > On 19/06/2017 01:20, Paul Rubin wrote: > ... > > the existing C API quite seriously. Reworking the C modules in the > > stdlib would be a large but not impossible undertaking. The many > > external C modules out there would be more of an issue. > > > I have always found the management of reference counts to be one of the > hardest > things about the C api. I'm not sure exactly how C extensions would/should > interact with a GC python. There seem to be different approaches eg lua & go > are > both GC languages but seem different in how C/GC memory should interact. Worth reading for chances python missed: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/588958/what-are-the-drawbacks-of-stackless-python To be fair also this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/377254/stackless-python-and-multicores -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
On 06/19/2017 07:10 AM, Robin Becker wrote: I have always found the management of reference counts to be one of the hardest things about the C api. I'm not sure exactly how C extensions would/should interact with a GC python. There seem to be different approaches eg lua & go are both GC languages but seem different in how C/GC memory should interact. The conversation would be easier if the proper terms were used. Reference counting is a valid garbage collecting mechanism, therefore Python is also a GC language. -- ~Ethan~ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Progress on the Gilectomy
On 19/06/2017 01:20, Paul Rubin wrote: ... the existing C API quite seriously. Reworking the C modules in the stdlib would be a large but not impossible undertaking. The many external C modules out there would be more of an issue. I have always found the management of reference counts to be one of the hardest things about the C api. I'm not sure exactly how C extensions would/should interact with a GC python. There seem to be different approaches eg lua & go are both GC languages but seem different in how C/GC memory should interact. -- Robin Becker -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Error while connecting Teradata
Yes i did installed teradata odbc driver .
On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber
wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 22:57:22 -0400, mradul dhakad
> declaimed the following:
>
> > File "C:\Python27\Lib\site-packages\teradata\tdodbc.py", line 391, in
> > determineDriver
> > "Available drivers: {}".format(dbType, ",".join(drivers)))
> > InterfaceError: ('DRIVER_NOT_FOUND', "No driver found for 'Teradata'
> >
>
>
>
> >Could anyone please let me know how to resolve this Error.
> >
>
> Uhm... Did you install the Teradata ODBC driver?
>
> http://downloads.teradata.com/download/connectivity/odbc-driver/windows
> --
> Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
> wlfr...@ix.netcom.comHTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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Re: Reciprocal data structures
> On Jun 18, 2017, at 11:02 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >>> With a list? No, I would say it's a bad idea. >> >> >> Why a bad idea? >> >> As opposed to "can't be done", or "too hard and slow". > > Maintaining a record of list indices inside an object, with the > specific proviso that: > >> If the list is changed, the list updates the indices. > A linked list with pointers to the next and previous items? If this was a homework problem, a linked list is usually implemented in C. The list keyword in Python is not the same thing. Chris R. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
course
Hi all, Is there on line course in Python? I am looking for a level between beginner and intermediate. I would appreciate if you could suggest me? Thank you. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
