date:20170822

Re: Proposed new syntax

2017-08-22 Thread Rustom Mody

Since this erm… discussion has also brought in Haskell
and in this case, the name, the history etc are related I thought I'd mention 
the following

Around 2015 there was a major upheaval in the Haskell community around the
socalled FTP (foldable-traversable-prelude) controversy.

In many respects this controversy is analogous and even identical to this one
and the heat there was considerably more than this thread's storm-in-a-teaspoon

Mark Lentczner resigned as Haskell's release manager¹
which in the python world would be analogous to say Raymond Hettinger saying
“Python 3 is too much of a mess; I am going to stick to python 2.2”
Along with hims went other stalwarts like Lennart Augustsson and Eric Meijer's
widely acclaimed EdX course switched from haskell to hugs²
[which is like switching to python 1.6]

The controversy somewhat oversimplified is that foldr (reduce-from-right) was
foldr : (a → b → b) → b → [a] → b
It was changed to
foldr : Foldable 풯  ⇒  (a → b → b) → b → 풯 a → b

If we think of [a] as list_of_a and 풯 a as any general list-like interface
we would see the close parallel with the divergence of opinion on this thread

¹ 
http://haskell.1045720.n5.nabble.com/quot-Excuse-me-I-think-this-i-my-stop-quot-Resigning-from-the-Platform-td5819861.html
² 
https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/3ove2e/got_the_welcome_email_from_edx_fp101x_course_hugs/
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[issue31024] typing.Tuple is class but is defined as data inside https://docs.python.org/3.6/objects.inv

2017-08-22 Thread Guido van Rossum


Guido van Rossum added the comment:

OK, I think Sphinx is way too complicated for its own good, and it's arguably 
not the fault of Python's documentation that this doesn't work for you.

I would like to close this issue as "won't fix", except... in a sense Tuple 
actually *is* a class, since you can subclass from e.g. Tuple[int, str].

@Levikvskyi, what do you think?

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[issue16217] Tracebacks are unnecessarily verbose when using 'python -m'

2017-08-22 Thread Nick Coghlan


Nick Coghlan added the comment:

The reason we don't always drop the importlib frames in general is because we 
need them when we're debugging importlib itself, as well as when folks are 
calling into it directly. However, I think it would be reasonable to do it 
unconditionally for unhandled exceptions triggered via "-m": if we want the 
unfiltered exception in that case, we can either edit runpy to skip the 
filtering (when working on runpy), or else call the runpy API directly, rather 
than via -m.

That means I like the idea of implementing the traceback filtering and display 
inside runpy._run_module_as_main itself, rather than relying on the default 
interpreter level traceback display.

One potential approach to that would be to expand the current code that 
suppresses tracebacks entirely for runpy._Error exceptions to also handle the 
"except Exception as exc:" case and print out a traceback variants that omits 
any frames from runpy, importlib, or _frozen_importlib (KeyboardInterrupt and 
SystemExit would still escape unmodified)

As far as the implementation goes, this could potentially be made a general 
feature of the new(ish) TracebackException 
https://docs.python.org/3/library/traceback.html#tracebackexception-objects 
class by accepting an "ignore_modules" iterable as a parameter to 
TracebackException.format() and then ignoring frames running code from those 
modules (conveniently, runpy, importlib, and _frozen_importlib between them 
will exercise the cases of a single-file module, a self-contained package, and 
a frozen module, so only namespace package support would end up relying 
entirely on synthetic test cases).

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[issue31024] typing.Tuple is class but is defined as data inside https://docs.python.org/3.6/objects.inv

2017-08-22 Thread Bernát Gábor

Bernát Gábor added the comment:

I suppose when the python.org documentation is generated the objects.inv file
gets generated with it (I did not found exactly this piece of code here
though). When Sphinx runs, it's intersphinx plugin goes out to python.org,
downloads the objects.inv, decodes it, and then tries to map the docstring
param/return values/references to URLs.

Actually intersphinx does not make the deduction of the type. It uses what the
users entered in the docstring. In this case the user needs to know for each
element to which bucket has been assigned to (e.g.
class/data/function/method/exception/macro); and for compatibility reason that
needs to stay stable, otherwise with a Python upgrade the user would need to
update the code of its docstrings.

That being said for the sake of automation, in my case there actually another
sphinx plugin
(https://github.com/agronholm/sphinx-autodoc-typehints/blob/master/sphinx_autodoc_typehints.py)
which actually generates, on the fly, the type information. So I suppose as a
fix for my problem the sphinx_autodoc_typehint could be altered to still give
back data, even though this now is a class. I'm not sure though how confident I
am on "lying" to users about the data/class; but I suppose it's a necessary
evil at this point.

So should we keep everything as it is? When I first identified why Tuple does
not have the URL mapped to it, I thought the problem to be the fact that it
goes to the wrong bucket (by just inspecting its type): data; but now I see
that may not be such a bad thing after all.

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[issue31263] Assigning to subscript/slice of literal is permitted

2017-08-22 Thread Isaac Elliott


New submission from Isaac Elliott:

In Python 3.5 and 3.6 (at least), the language reference presents a grammar 
that disallows assignment to literals.

For example, `(a for 1 in [1,2,3])` is a syntax error, as is `(1, a) = (2, 3)`.

However the grammar doesn't prevent assignment to subscripted or sliced 
literals.

For example neither `(a for [1,2,3][0] in [1,2,3])` nor `([1,2,3][0], a) = (2, 
3)` are considered syntax errors.

Similar behavior is exhibited for slices.

The problem is that the `target_list` production 
(https://docs.python.org/3.5/reference/simple_stmts.html#grammar-token-target_list)
 reuses the `subscription` and `slicing` productions which both use the 
`primary` production, allowing literals on their left side.

--
messages: 300740
nosy: Isaac Elliott
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: Assigning to subscript/slice of literal is permitted
type: behavior
versions: Python 3.5, Python 3.6

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Re: Proposed new syntax

2017-08-22 Thread Marko Rauhamaa

Gregory Ewing :

> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> You will always have to step outside your formal system and resort to
>> hand-waving in a natural language.
>
> If the hand-waving is rigorous, this amounts to expanding your formal
> system by adding new axioms and/or rules to it.

Ultimately, it's not rigorous. You can add rigor to any number of
meta-levels, but on top of it all, you will need an informal "observer"
level. It's turtles all the way down.

For example, you can't have a set of all sets. The NBG set theory solves
the problem by introducing the concept of classes. You can have a class
of all sets. But you can't have a class of all classes.

> If the hand-waving is not rigorous, then you haven't really proved
> anything.

The mathematicians have stopped caring.

In fact, even if metamathematics were a closed, formal system, the best
it could achieve would be circular reasoning. That would still be
satisfactory and "convincing." However, no interesting system can prove
its own consistency (but it *can* prove it can't prove its own
consistency).

Recommended reading:

   https://www.amazon.com/Unprovability-Consistency-Essay-Moda
   l-Logic/dp/0521092973>

Marko
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[issue31254] WeakKeyDictionary/Mapping doesn't call missing

2017-08-22 Thread Raymond Hettinger


Raymond Hettinger added the comment:

For WeakKeyDictionary, I suspect that adding a __missing__() call would make 
the API more tricky and would likely cause more problems than it solves.

Without a compelling use case, my recommendation would be to leave it alone.  
(FWIW, all of the weak reference data structures have a long history of bugs, 
it seems that this is difficult to get right).

--
nosy: +rhettinger
type:  -> enhancement
versions:  -Python 3.6

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[issue31209] MappingProxyType can not be pickled

2017-08-22 Thread Raymond Hettinger


Raymond Hettinger added the comment:

> So I guess my questions now are;
> 
> 1. Should types.MappingProxyType be pickleable?
> 2. Should there be some documentation about the intended use of
> MappingProxyType?
>
> I imagine the answer to the first question is "no" given 
> how `__setstate__` works.

For the second question, I don't think so.  AFAICT the only intention was to 
support the actual mapping views for regular dicts.  Its likely that not much 
thought was given to other uses, so it doesn't make sense to document intention 
when none really exists ;-)

Given the answers above and that you have a PR solve your upstream issue with 
Schematics, can this bug report be closed?

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opencv tutorial links

2017-08-22 Thread Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer

dear mail list,

the only famous module i need to cover in python is open cv

can you drop some links or book recommendations apart from the official
website?

thanks,

Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer,
Mauritius
abdurrahmaanjanhangeer.wordpress.com
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Re: Outlook csv Files

2017-08-22 Thread Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer

as someone who works with languages, this one seems quite manageable

 i assume you know how to deal with csv.
1 get the cell string
2 split at _
that will make you move around mpre easily as this separates in big chunk
3 for the first chunck, you might want to split at ,
4 and so on

Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer,
Mauritius
abdurrahmaanjanhangeer.wordpress.com

On 23 Aug 2017 03:34, "Gregory Grimes"  wrote:

> All,
>
> I have exported Remedy emails from Outlook to a csv file.  The issue is
> one cell, Body, has information in multiple lines:
>
> Subject,Body,From: (Name),From: (Address),From: (Type),To: (Name),To:
> (Address),To: (Type),CC: (Name),CC: (Address),CC: (Type),BCC: (Name),BCC:
> (Address),BCC: (Type),Billing Information,Categories,
> Importance,Mileage,Sensitivity
> INC00977622 Assigned : DBA - PKG1 : mbbanms0006.xxx.com - Alert,
> "Remedy Ticket Information
> 
> Date Open
> 08/09/17 12:10:57
> Ticket Number
> INC00977622  com/HPD%3AHelp+Desk/Default+User+View/?eid=INC00938650>
> Date Modified
> 08/09/17 12:10:57
> Category
> Status
> Assigned
> Priority
> High
> Short Description
> mbbanms0006.xxx.com - Alert
> User Information
> 
> User Name
> Remedy SPI
> User Login
> remedyspi
> User Phone
> ###
> User Email
> helpd...@xxx.com 
> User Department
> Staff Information
> 
> Staff Name
> Staff Login
> Staff Phone
> Staff Email
> 
> Staff Department
> DBA - PKG1
> Detailed Ticket Information
> 
> Incident Description
> Target : mb08dorb Type : Database Instance Host : mbbanms0006.xxx.com
> Info : A session was terminated at time/line number: Wed Aug 09 12:10:10
> 2017/84281. Metric=ORA-01000: maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000:
> maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors
> exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open
> cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000:
> maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors
> exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open
> cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000:
> maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum o
> Click Here to Access Remedy  “
>
> My question, what is the best way to parse the long Body string to extract
> information from this file for analysis?
>
> Thanks.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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Re: python list name in subject

2017-08-22 Thread Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer

ah thanks for the tip about me filtering them

thought the community liked core python style (mail lists where python dev
talk, discuss ideas,i.e. the ones where guido replies etc)

anyways thanks all

Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer,
Mauritius
abdurrahmaanjanhangeer.wordpress.com

On 22 Aug 2017 12:38, "Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer" 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> i am subscribed to different python lists and they put their names in the
> subject
> [name] subject
>
> hence i can at a glance tell which mail belongs to which list.
>
> A requests to admins to implement if possible
>
> Thank you!
>
>
> 
>  Garanti
> sans virus. www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_1748413376357339298_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
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Re: python list name in subject

2017-08-22 Thread Ben Finney

Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer  writes:

> i am subscribed to different python lists and they put their names in the
> subject
> [name] subject

That's non-standard. The standard place for that information is the
“List-Id” field .

> hence i can at a glance tell which mail belongs to which list.

Set up a filter on the specific value of the “List-Id” field, which is
set by any standards-conformant mailing list software.

Presto, you get any organisation you like based on that information; and
the rest of us don't get the Subject field cluttered.

-- 
 \   “Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone |
  `\  else’s opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a |
_o__)   quotation.” —Oscar Wilde, _De Profundis_, 1897 |
Ben Finney

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Re: Proposed new syntax

2017-08-22 Thread Ben Finney

Stephan Houben  writes:

> I have often done things like:
>
>   generate_id = itertools.count().__next__

Could you be convinced to instead do::

import functools
import itertools

generate_id = functools.partial(next, itertools.count())

-- 
 \“The right to search for truth implies also a duty; one must |
  `\  not conceal any part of what one has recognized to be true.” |
_o__) —Albert Einstein |
Ben Finney

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Re: python list name in subject

2017-08-22 Thread Grant Edwards

On 2017-08-23, D'Arcy Cain  wrote:
> On 08/22/2017 10:14 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> Please don't. It wastes space which is better used on the subject.  If
>> you want the mailing list prepended, then configure procmail (or
>> whatever) to do it for you.
>
> Better yet, put it in its own folder.

Even better, point a news client[1] at

   nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Usenet_newsreaders

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[issue31244] IDLE: work around shortcuts bug in Windows' IMEs and tk

2017-08-22 Thread Terry J. Reedy


Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Constantine: the point of checking the behavior of the Japanese IME was to 
determine whether there is a problem with all IMEs or just some.  Since Ctrl + 
the 2nd key from the left on the bottom row (marked 'X') invokes 'Delete' in 
both American and Japanese entry modes, the behavior you want should be 
possible.

I do not know where the bug is, and do not care, other than knowing that it is 
not in IDLE (or Python).  I do care that anyone in the world, like you, with 
sufficient knowledge to use Python, be able to also use IDLE if they chose.   
Even if switching keyboards with alt-shift is a fast, habituated, motion, it is 
clearly a nuisance in this context  So, even though IDLE is not Firefox, I am 
willing to consider somehow implementing what Serhiy described and supporting 
either adding workaround keyset(s) to IDLE or make it easier for users to 
create their own custom keysets that work.

When I mentioned the menus, I assume that the alt menu shortcuts work, so 
alt-e, alt-c, for instance, would copy a selection.  When we tried this with 
the Japanese keyboard, the alt shortcuts work for the top menu (F_ile, E_dit, 
S_hell, etc) but not for the drop-down submenus.  After alt-e displays the edit 
menu, alt-c, etc, have no apparent effect.  Another bug, and one which I doubt 
we can work around without language-specific menus.  (This is a separate issue.)

Step 1 for this issue: what is the scope of the problem.  I presume it is not 
unique to Ukranian.  Does it affect all Cyrillic IMEs?  If so, do different 
cyrillic keyboards have the the alphabetic chars in different places, so that a 
separate workaround is needed for every IME, even for letter chars?

--
assignee:  -> terry.reedy
components: +IDLE
resolution: third party -> 
stage: resolved -> test needed
title: Shortcuts bug in Python IDLE -> IDLE: work around shortcuts bug in 
Windows' IMEs and tk
versions: +Python 3.7

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[issue31255] Test getrandom before using it

2017-08-22 Thread Benda Xu


Benda Xu added the comment:

Thanks Victor. Python-3.5 has received your patches in time and 3.5.4 builds 
well with glibc-2.25 and https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Prefix
  2. 
https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/commit/?id=6c8e2396d9cf4fe13057741f5bd1b9989eeeb746

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Re: python list name in subject

2017-08-22 Thread D'Arcy Cain


On 08/22/2017 10:14 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:

Please don't. It wastes space which is better used on the subject.  If
you want the mailing list prepended, then configure procmail (or
whatever) to do it for you.


Better yet, put it in its own folder.

--
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Vybe Networks Inc.
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IM:da...@vex.net VoIP: sip:da...@vybenetworks.com
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[issue31209] MappingProxyType can not be pickled

2017-08-22 Thread Alex Hayes


Alex Hayes added the comment:

Some background. I'm not actually trying to pickle MappingProxyType, I'm using 
the schematics [1] library and recently it broke support for pickle [2] and the 
cause of that is because they are using MappingProxyType [3] internally (when 
they used to use dict).

The Python docs on MappingProxyType [4] provides an appropriate level of API 
documentation but what it doesn't cover is when you should or should not use 
MappingProxyType (understandably, it's most likely a complex answer). However, 
I imagine that it's being used in schematics because at the bottom of the 
Python dict documentation [5] it states;

> See also types.MappingProxyType can be used to create a read-only view of a 
> dict.

To answer the question "What would be the point of pickling a MappingProxy?" I 
would probably have to ask, what is the intended use of MappingProxyType?

If one was unfamiliar with the way in which pickle and MappingProxyType works I 
imagine they would think there would be no reason why a "read-only view of a 
dict" can't be pickled.

So I guess my questions now are;

1. Should types.MappingProxyType be pickleable?
2. Should there be some documentation about the intended use of 
MappingProxyType?

I imagine the answer to the first question is "no" given how `__setstate__` 
works.




[1] https://github.com/schematics/schematics
[2] https://github.com/schematics/schematics/issues/510
[3] https://github.com/schematics/schematics/pull/511
[4] https://docs.python.org/3/library/types.html#types.MappingProxyType
[5] https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#dict

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[issue31205] IDLE, configdialog: Factor out KeysPage class from ConfigDialog

2017-08-22 Thread Terry J. Reedy


Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Reading PEP 434, special rules for IDLE, should mostly answer your question.

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[issue12887] Documenting all SO_* constants in socket module

2017-08-22 Thread Mariatta Wijaya


Changes by Mariatta Wijaya :


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versions: +Python 3.6, Python 3.7 -Python 2.7, Python 3.2, Python 3.3

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Outlook csv Files

2017-08-22 Thread Gregory Grimes

All,

I have exported Remedy emails from Outlook to a csv file.  The issue is one 
cell, Body, has information in multiple lines:

Subject,Body,From: (Name),From: (Address),From: (Type),To: (Name),To: 
(Address),To: (Type),CC: (Name),CC: (Address),CC: (Type),BCC: (Name),BCC: 
(Address),BCC: (Type),Billing 
Information,Categories,Importance,Mileage,Sensitivity
INC00977622 Assigned : DBA - PKG1 : mbbanms0006.xxx.com - Alert,
"Remedy Ticket Information 

Date Open 
08/09/17 12:10:57 
Ticket Number 
INC00977622 

 
Date Modified 
08/09/17 12:10:57 
Category
Status
Assigned 
Priority
High 
Short Description 
mbbanms0006.xxx.com - Alert 
User Information 

User Name
Remedy SPI 
User Login
remedyspi
User Phone
###
User Email
helpd...@xxx.com  
User Department
Staff Information

Staff Name
Staff Login
Staff Phone
Staff Email
 
Staff Department
DBA - PKG1 
Detailed Ticket Information 

Incident Description
Target : mb08dorb Type : Database Instance Host : mbbanms0006.xxx.com Info 
: A session was terminated at time/line number: Wed Aug 09 12:10:10 2017/84281. 
Metric=ORA-01000: maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors 
exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open 
cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum 
open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: 
maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors 
exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open 
cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum open cursors exceeded~ORA-01000: maximum o 
Click Here to Access Remedy  “

My question, what is the best way to parse the long Body string to extract 
information from this file for analysis?

Thanks.
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Re: Proposed new syntax

2017-08-22 Thread Gregory Ewing


Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

You will always have
to step outside your formal system and resort to hand-waving in a
natural language.


If the hand-waving is rigorous, this amounts to expanding your
formal system by adding new axioms and/or rules to it.

If the hand-waving is not rigorous, then you haven't really
proved anything.

--
Greg
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[issue31262] Documentation Error

2017-08-22 Thread Dipti Sherlekar


Dipti Sherlekar added the comment:

Thanks all.

Dipti
On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 4:28 PM Martin Panter 
wrote:

>
> Martin Panter added the comment:
>
> Assuming this is about the Classes section in the tutorial, you seem to be
> going down the same track as 
>
> --
> nosy: +martin.panter
>
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[issue31262] Documentation Error

2017-08-22 Thread Martin Panter


Martin Panter added the comment:

Assuming this is about the Classes section in the tutorial, you seem to be 
going down the same track as 

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[issue31262] Documentation Error

2017-08-22 Thread R. David Murray


R. David Murray added the comment:

No, that sentence is telling you what the *Python*'s behavior is, using C++ 
terminology.  Unlike C++, where class members are private by default, the 
Python equivalent of class members are public by default.

If you can figure out a clearer way to phrase that you may reopen the issue 
with your suggestion.

--
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resolution:  -> not a bug
stage:  -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue31261] unittest fails to properly destruct objects created during setUp if a test fails

2017-08-22 Thread R. David Murray


R. David Murray added the comment:

GC cleanup is not guaranteed to be synchronous.  You are observing normal 
Python behavior here.  Cleanup does not happen until the TestCase instance is 
finalized (thus eliminating the self.dummy reference to your DummyClass).  In 
the case of passing tests, that is after the '.' is printed.  In the case of 
failing tests, that is after the failure is printed, which isn't until the 
failure summary is printed at after running all tests.

If it is important to you that DummyClass be finalized, you need to add an 
addCleanup call to your setUp method that will do whatever finalization you 
need done.  Including doing 'del self.dummy' (or self.dummy = None) if you need 
the reference to it gone...but depending on garbage collection is a bad idea, 
so if you are doing that there is probably something sub-optimal about your 
design.

--
nosy: +r.david.murray
resolution:  -> not a bug
stage:  -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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