Re: Logging cf Reporting = Friday Filosofical Finking

[Antoon Pardon]

On 9/04/19 17:43, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>>> Is logging an unpopular package?
>> I've been writing Python applications for 20 years.  On several
>> occasions, I've sat down determined to use it.  After a frustrating
>> half a day or so trying to get it to do what I want (and failing),
>> I've always given up and gone back to writing my own throw-away
>> logging functions (typically containing a dozen or so lines of code).
> I'm with Grant. I only broke down recently because that's what's used
> at work and I need to eat. I log *a lot* and always felt it solved
> problems I never had. For example, I never needed to log to syslog,
> include the current thread id in my log messages, or to have multiple
> simultaneous active handlers. (Though I can understand that some
> people will want all this stuff.) 

I use the simultaneous active handlers regularly. I write a lot of things
that are called by cron. My standard set up is to have two handlers. One
with loglevel INFO that writes to a file and one with loglevel WARNING
that writes to stderr.

-- 
Antoon Pardon.

-- 
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Re: Logging cf Reporting = Friday Filosofical Finking

[Antoon Pardon]

On 8/04/19 23:14, DL Neil wrote:
> Is logging an unpopular package?

I think it does too much and too litle.

On the one hand, you are overwhelmed by the possibilities, most of which you 
don't need.
On the other hand, you find that it is missing a number of levels in comparison 
with syslog.
I also miss multiple debugging levels. As it is, you either have debug 
information for your
unit or you don't.

-- 
Antoon.


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Re: Design a function that finds all positive numbers

[Ben Bacarisse]

r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:

> Ben Bacarisse  writes:
>>Ranjith Bantu  writes:
>>>can I solve any problems like this by learning python?
>>You need to learn how to solve problems as well as learning Python --
>
>   I do not separate "solving the problem" from "using Python",
>   because the approach to solve the problem in another
>   language would be different (think of Haskell).

There's a lot here.  First, I didn't separate them.  You have to do both
together, and both need to be learned.  Second, learning how to solve
problems is a universal skill that is needed no matter what languages
you use.  You may come up with different solutions in different
languages, but problem solving skills will be needed no matter what.
Third, I don't think the solutions will always be so significantly
different in different languages.  This partly depends on the level at
which one views algorithms, and will depend on what one considers to be
significantly different so it's a bit vague.


-- 
Ben.
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Re: What is a, b, c, and d in: rect1 = drawing.create_rectangle(a, b, c, d) and circle1 = drawing.create_oval(a, b, c, d)

[Terry Reedy]

On 4/9/2019 4:24 PM, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:

Am 09.04.19 um 21:57 schrieb CrazyVideoGamez:

What is a, b, c, and d in:
from tkinter import *
window = Tk()
drawing = Canvas(window, height=500, width=500)
rectangle = drawing.create_rectangle(a, b, c, d)
and:
circle = drawing.create_oval(a, b, c, d)
???


Look it up in the original Tk documentation:

https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.6/TkCmd/canvas.htm#M155
https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.6/TkCmd/canvas.htm#M150


Or the pythonized version
http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/web/index.html

--
Terry Jan Reedy

--
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Re: What is a, b, c, and d in: rect1 = drawing.create_rectangle(a, b, c, d) and circle1 = drawing.create_oval(a, b, c, d)

[Peter Otten]

CrazyVideoGamez wrote:

> What is a, b, c, and d in:
> from tkinter import *
> window = Tk()
> drawing = Canvas(window, height=500, width=500)
> rectangle = drawing.create_rectangle(a, b, c, d)
> and:
> circle = drawing.create_oval(a, b, c, d)
> ???

Here's a picture:

http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/web/create_oval.html

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What is a, b, c, and d in: rect1 = drawing.create_rectangle(a, b, c, d) and circle1 = drawing.create_oval(a, b, c, d)

[CrazyVideoGamez]

What is a, b, c, and d in:
from tkinter import *
window = Tk()
drawing = Canvas(window, height=500, width=500)
rectangle = drawing.create_rectangle(a, b, c, d)
and:
circle = drawing.create_oval(a, b, c, d)
???
-- 
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Design a function that finds all positive numbers

[Ranjith Bantu]

A numeric array of length 'N' is given. you need to design a function that 
finds all positive numbers in the array that have their opposites in it swell. 
give the approach for solving the optimal average or best case performance. 
answer will be your obsolute.
Array: -7,4,-3, 2, 2, -8, -2, 3, 3, 7, -2, 3, -2
sorted: -2, -2, -2 ,2 ,2, -3, 3, 3, 4, -7, 7, -8?

can I solve any problems like this by learning python? if anybody knows this 
answer or any mistakes in this question, please explain to me in detail? I 
wanna practice more problems like this thank you.
-- 
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ANN: Wing Python IDE 7 is Now Available

[Wingware]

   Wing Python IDE 7.0 - April 8, 2019

Wing 7 introduces an improved code warnings and code quality inspection 
system that includes built-in error detection and tight integration with 
pylint, pep8, and mypy. This release also adds a new data frame and 
array viewer, a MATLAB keyboard personality, easy inline debug data 
display with Shift-Space, improved stack data display, support for PEP 
3134 chained exceptions, callouts for search and other code navigation 
features, four new color palettes, improved bookmarking, a high-level 
configuration menu, magnified presentation mode, a new update manager, 
stepping over import internals, simplified remote agent installation, 
and much more.



Wing 7 Screen Shot

*Download Wing 7 Now:* Wing Pro 
 | Wing Personal 
 | Wing 101 
 | Compare 
Products 



   Some Highlights of Wing 7


 Code Warnings and Quality Inspection (Wing Pro)

Wing 7's new code warnings and code quality inspection system focuses on 
early identification of real coding errors, including syntax errors, 
undefined variables and attributes, unresolved imports, and other types 
of errors. Warnings may also be obtained from external checkers such as 
pylint, pep8, and mypy.



 Data Frame and Array Viewer

The new array viewer for debug data can work efficiently with very large 
data sets created with Pandas, numpy, xarray, sqlite3, and any Python 
lists, tuples, and dicts. To use the array viewer, right click on an 
item in the Stack Data tool and select View as Array.



 Improved Debug Data Display

In Wing Pro, pressing Shift-Space while the debugger is active and 
paused displays the value of all visible symbols in the editor, using 
popup tooltips.


Other debugger improvements include better support for PEP 3134 chained 
exceptions, filtering out __name__ special names and other symbol types, 
hiding memory addresses, and viewing dictionaries in sorted order.



 Improved Bookmarking (Wing Pro)

The bookmarks tool was redesigned to make it easier to use bookmarks to 
manage development tasks, by assigning categories, entering notes, and 
filtering bookmark display by category or text fragment. Bookmarks now 
track better across external file changes, and can be shared with other 
projects and users.



 And Much More

Wing 7 also introduces a new high-level configuration menu, magnified 
presentation mode, editor callouts for easier search and code 
navigation, new color palettes, a MATLAB keyboard personality, typeshed 
integration, updated and expanded documentation, and many other 
improvements.


For details see What's New in Wing 7 


   Try Wing 7 Now!

Wing 7 is a an exciting new step for Wingware's Python IDE product line. 
Find out how Wing 7 can turbocharge your Python development by trying it 
today.


*Downloads:* Wing Pro 
 | Wing Personal 
 | Wing 101 
 | Compare 
Products 


Wing 7 installs side by side with earlier versions of Wing, so there is 
no need to remove old versions in order to try it. Wing 7 will read and 
convert your old preferences, settings, and projects. Projects should be 
saved to a new name since earlier versions of Wing cannot read Wing 7 
projects.


See Upgrading  for details 
and Migrating from Older Versions 
 for a list of compatibility 
notes.



--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: What is a, b, c, and d in: rect1 = drawing.create_rectangle(a, b, c, d) and circle1 = drawing.create_oval(a, b, c, d)

[Christian Gollwitzer]

Am 09.04.19 um 21:57 schrieb CrazyVideoGamez:

What is a, b, c, and d in:
from tkinter import *
window = Tk()
drawing = Canvas(window, height=500, width=500)
rectangle = drawing.create_rectangle(a, b, c, d)
and:
circle = drawing.create_oval(a, b, c, d)
???


Look it up in the original Tk documentation:

https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.6/TkCmd/canvas.htm#M155
https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.6/TkCmd/canvas.htm#M150

Christian

--
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Re: How to make an application run "online"

[Chris Angelico]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 4:31 AM Daniel Tkach  wrote:
>
> Hey Chris, thank you! So by this I found https://www.pythonanywhere.com, and 
> I'm checking it out!
> Good points about the "polling", I thought I could do it that way but I 
> didn't know the term. I think every 30 minutes will be fine, but I'll check 
> the notifications part.
> Thanks again for putting me on track.
>

Cool! A pythonanywhere "beginner" app won't be able to do a
thirty-minutely poll, and also won't be able to receive notifications,
so this option would cost money. Depending on the availability of
notifications, you may find that Heroku is a good option - it's great
for anything that's triggered by incoming HTTP requests (which is how
many notification systems work).

ChrisA
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Re: How to make an application run "online"

[Daniel Tkach]

Hey Chris, thank you! So by this I found https://www.pythonanywhere.com, and 
I'm checking it out! 
Good points about the "polling", I thought I could do it that way but I didn't 
know the term. I think every 30 minutes will be fine, but I'll check the 
notifications part.
Thanks again for putting me on track.

On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 3:05:22 PM UTC-3, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 2:46 AM Daniel Tkach  wrote:
> > What I want to do now is ... I want the Kajabi product be activated for 
> > that user as soon as he checks out on Shopify and there's a new order, and 
> > I want this not to depend on my computer.
> >
> 
> The first part of that can be done in two ways. One of them depends
> 100% on Shopify, the other doesn't. Look at Shopify's API to see if
> they have a way to receive notifications, and if so, great! Program
> against that. The other option is way less efficient. It's called
> "polling" - you set your script up to query Shopify periodically and
> see if there's anything new. You'll have to decide a balance between
> prompt reaction to orders and load on your and Shopify's servers. If
> you poll every hour, a new order may take up to an hour to be noticed
> (on average, orders will wait half an hour before they're seen).
> Depending on what you're doing, an hour might be fine; even twelve
> hours might be okay. But that's for you to decide.
> 
> The second part - having it not depend on your computer - is called
> deployment. You get some _other_ computer for it to depend on. There
> are a variety of places where you can do that, but before you decide,
> figure out what it is you need (ie solve the previous problem). There
> are a variety of commercial hosting platforms out there; as a general
> rule, you'll pay more if you want more flexibility, so the more
> restrictions you're willing to accept, the cheaper it'll be.
> 
> That's just a very broad overview, but hopefully it'll be enough to
> start researching on!
> 
> ChrisA

-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: How to make an application run "online"

[Chris Angelico]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 2:46 AM Daniel Tkach  wrote:
> What I want to do now is ... I want the Kajabi product be activated for that 
> user as soon as he checks out on Shopify and there's a new order, and I want 
> this not to depend on my computer.
>

The first part of that can be done in two ways. One of them depends
100% on Shopify, the other doesn't. Look at Shopify's API to see if
they have a way to receive notifications, and if so, great! Program
against that. The other option is way less efficient. It's called
"polling" - you set your script up to query Shopify periodically and
see if there's anything new. You'll have to decide a balance between
prompt reaction to orders and load on your and Shopify's servers. If
you poll every hour, a new order may take up to an hour to be noticed
(on average, orders will wait half an hour before they're seen).
Depending on what you're doing, an hour might be fine; even twelve
hours might be okay. But that's for you to decide.

The second part - having it not depend on your computer - is called
deployment. You get some _other_ computer for it to depend on. There
are a variety of places where you can do that, but before you decide,
figure out what it is you need (ie solve the previous problem). There
are a variety of commercial hosting platforms out there; as a general
rule, you'll pay more if you want more flexibility, so the more
restrictions you're willing to accept, the cheaper it'll be.

That's just a very broad overview, but hopefully it'll be enough to
start researching on!

ChrisA
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How to make an application run "online"

[Daniel Tkach]

Hello group. I started learning Python about a week ago. I have a few years of 
experience with other languages, mostly Pascal and C#, and I've always 
programmed for desktop, so I'm a bit clueless when it comes to web programming.

So I was able to pull off my first working app with Python using APIs YAY!!! It 
feels so great, like I control the whole internet LOL 
What my little program does is it uses Shopify API to get the orders, then 
using a lookup table that I have on disk in a .csv file it calls a webhook on 
another platform called Kajabi where the user gets added and activated, where 
he will be watching the live videos he purchased at the Shopify website.

What I want to do now is to automate it completely, I don't want to have to run 
my script, I want the Kajabi product be activated for that user as soon as he 
checks out on Shopify and there's a new order, and I want this not to depend on 
my computer.
How do you do this? Where do I start?
-- 
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RE: Design a function that finds all positive numbers

[Schachner, Joseph]

I'm willing to bet "sorted" is a sort of the list of strings.  The result is 
certainly not what I'd expect if the list contained numeric values.

So: make a new list that holds the values in your "Array" (which is probably a 
list) converted to numbers.  Sort the new list.  That should give you're a 
numerically sorted result.

After that, you can look through the negative numbers on the new list (they 
will all be before any positive value), and try to find the positive value in 
the new list.  Output the positive value.
Warning: keep track of the values you have already checked, and don't output 
the same value twice.  You the values you've already looked for into a set 
(sets do not ever store duplicate values, not important in this case) and check 
if a subsequent value is already in the set.  I say this because there are 
three -2 values, and two 2 values, but I think you only want to print 2 once.

--- Joseph S.


-Original Message-
From: Ben Bacarisse  
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 7:33 AM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: Design a function that finds all positive numbers

Ranjith Bantu  writes:

> A numeric array of length 'N' is given. you need to design a function 
> that finds all positive numbers in the array that have their opposites 
> in it swell. give the approach for solving the optimal average or best 
> case performance. answer will be your obsolute.
> Array: -7,4,-3, 2, 2, -8, -2, 3, 3, 7, -2, 3, -2
> sorted: -2, -2, -2 ,2 ,2, -3, 3, 3, 4, -7, 7, -8?
>
> can I solve any problems like this by learning python?

You need to learn how to solve problems as well as learning Python -- they go 
hand in hand -- but Python is a good language to get started with.

> if anybody
> knows this answer or any mistakes in this question, please explain to 
> me in detail?

That would require quite a long essay!  As to the question, it's a bit odd to 
talk of opposites, but it's not ambiguous.  More problematic is what to do with 
duplicates.  The question should be worded so that it's either clear what is 
wanted, or so that it is clear that you should decide what to do.

--
Ben.

-- 
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Re: Logging cf Reporting = Friday Filosofical Finking

[Skip Montanaro]

> > Is logging an unpopular package?
>
> I've been writing Python applications for 20 years.  On several
> occasions, I've sat down determined to use it.  After a frustrating
> half a day or so trying to get it to do what I want (and failing),
> I've always given up and gone back to writing my own throw-away
> logging functions (typically containing a dozen or so lines of code).

I'm with Grant. I only broke down recently because that's what's used
at work and I need to eat. I log *a lot* and always felt it solved
problems I never had. For example, I never needed to log to syslog,
include the current thread id in my log messages, or to have multiple
simultaneous active handlers. (Though I can understand that some
people will want all this stuff.) A simple logger with ISO-8601
timestamps and a strftime-ish-formatted message was all I ever needed.
Performance of initial versions was also abysmal, which meant I
couldn't log at the volumes I needed to in real-time-ish applications.
My current mini-frustration is that you can't cleanly log with
subsecond resolution *and* include the timezone in the timestamp. You
wind up writing a special Formatter to do that. The logging module was
introduced at the same time as datetime (Python 2.3 timeframe [1],
around 2003 - plenty of time since then to have introduced a breaking
change to use datetime objects under the covers, if one was
necessary). There is really no good reason the logging package was
ever shackled to the tuple output of time.{localtime,gmtime} in the
first place. Those are just thin wrappers around the corresponding
stdlib functions [2] which were written in the 1980s or earlier [3].

Skip

[1] https://www.python.org/doc/versions/
[2] 
https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=localtime&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+12.0-RELEASE+and+Ports&arch=default&format=html
[3] https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/share/misc/bsd-family-tree?view=co
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Re: Logging cf Reporting = Friday Filosofical Finking

[Grant Edwards]

On 2019-04-08, DL Neil  wrote:

> Is logging an unpopular package?

I've been writing Python applications for 20 years.  On several
occasions, I've sat down determined to use it.  After a frustrating
half a day or so trying to get it to do what I want (and failing),
I've always given up and gone back to writing my own throw-away
logging functions (typically containing a dozen or so lines of code).

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! You mean you don't
  at   want to watch WRESTLING
  gmail.comfrom ATLANTA?

-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Kill stuck threads

[Rhodri James]

On 09/04/2019 14:08, Shakti Kumar wrote:

Over due course I've felt the need of a way to kill a thread gracefully, by
relieving all occupied resources.
A bit of search online shows me that killing a thread depends very much on
the underlying platform support, and is something not advised, however I
face this problem when one of my devices don't respond and my code keeps
waiting indefinitely for an SSH reply.


Fundamentally, don't do that.  Never let a thread wait indefinitely on 
something you don't have control over.  Use timeouts, and think hard 
about your recovery strategies.


Killing and restarting a thread is always going to be a risky business, 
and will leave your system less stable.  Don't do it unless you have no 
choice (and if you think you have no choice, you're probably wrong!).


--
Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd
--
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Kill stuck threads

[Shakti Kumar]

Hello Team,

Over due course I've felt the need of a way to kill a thread gracefully, by
relieving all occupied resources.
A bit of search online shows me that killing a thread depends very much on
the underlying platform support, and is something not advised, however I
face this problem when one of my devices don't respond and my code keeps
waiting indefinitely for an SSH reply.
I figured I could find a way out of the stuck situation by launching a
thread to do the SSH, and raising an exception from main thread if the SSH
thread isn't complete in 20seconds (max time for our devices' login).
But since a Django frontend (for my application) won't kill the stuck
thread, or even the bareminimum python won't, I'm pretty sure I'll run into
resource issue when many users have used the application for non responsive
devices.
I can get around with a timeout value in the pexpect module I'm using for
SSHing, but wanted to check if there's a solution already of getting around
the thread issue.

Best,
Shakti.
-- 
Sent from Shakti’s iPhone
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Design a function that finds all positive numbers

[Ben Bacarisse]

Ranjith Bantu  writes:

> A numeric array of length 'N' is given. you need to design a function
> that finds all positive numbers in the array that have their opposites
> in it swell. give the approach for solving the optimal average or best
> case performance. answer will be your obsolute.
> Array: -7,4,-3, 2, 2, -8, -2, 3, 3, 7, -2, 3, -2
> sorted: -2, -2, -2 ,2 ,2, -3, 3, 3, 4, -7, 7, -8?
>
> can I solve any problems like this by learning python?

You need to learn how to solve problems as well as learning Python --
they go hand in hand -- but Python is a good language to get started
with.

> if anybody
> knows this answer or any mistakes in this question, please explain to
> me in detail?

That would require quite a long essay!  As to the question, it's a bit
odd to talk of opposites, but it's not ambiguous.  More problematic is
what to do with duplicates.  The question should be worded so that it's
either clear what is wanted, or so that it is clear that you should
decide what to do.

-- 
Ben.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

newer version

[John Doe]

I've already -X555UJ:~$ python
python python3python3.6m python3m
python2python3.6  python3.6m-config  python3m-config
python2.7  python3.6-config   python3-config 

Wondering if not add Python3.7 yet if so should I just do: sudo apt
install python3.7  or do it another way(Xubuntu distro)? 
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ANN: Python Meeting Düsseldorf - 10.04.2019

[eGenix Team: M.-A. Lemburg]

[This announcement is in German since it targets a local user group
 meeting in Düsseldorf, Germany]



ANKÜNDIGUNG

  Python Meeting Düsseldorf

   http://pyddf.de/

Ein Treffen von Python Enthusiasten und Interessierten
 in ungezwungener Atmosphäre.

   Mittwoch, 10.04.2019, 18:00 Uhr
   Raum 1, 2.OG im Bürgerhaus Stadtteilzentrum Bilk
 Düsseldorfer Arcaden, Bachstr. 145, 40217 Düsseldorf

Diese Nachricht ist auch online verfügbar:
https://www.egenix.com/company/news/Python-Meeting-Duesseldorf-2019-04-10


NEUIGKEITEN

 * Bereits angemeldete Vorträge:

Jochen Wersdorfer
"Machine Learning with Python"

Detlef Lannert
"Data classes in Python 3.7"

Uwe Ziegenhagen
"Python in der Lehre - Curriculum, Erwartungen und Erfahrungen"

Dominik Geldmacher
"Buchrezension: Data Science mit Python"

   Weitere Vorträge können gerne noch angemeldet werden: i...@pyddf.de

 * Startzeit und Ort:

   Wir treffen uns um 18:00 Uhr im Bürgerhaus in den Düsseldorfer
   Arcaden.

   Das Bürgerhaus teilt sich den Eingang mit dem Schwimmbad und
   befindet sich an der Seite der Tiefgarageneinfahrt der Düsseldorfer
   Arcaden.

   Über dem Eingang steht ein großes "Schwimm' in Bilk" Logo. Hinter
   der Tür direkt links zu den zwei Aufzügen, dann in den 2. Stock
   hochfahren. Der Eingang zum Raum 1 liegt direkt links, wenn man aus
   dem Aufzug kommt.

   Google Street View: http://bit.ly/11sCfiw



EINLEITUNG

Das Python Meeting Düsseldorf ist eine regelmäßige Veranstaltung in
Düsseldorf, die sich an Python Begeisterte aus der Region wendet:

 * http://pyddf.de/

Einen guten Überblick über die Vorträge bietet unser YouTube-Kanal,
auf dem wir die Vorträge nach den Meetings veröffentlichen:

 * http://www.youtube.com/pyddf/

Veranstaltet wird das Meeting von der eGenix.com GmbH, Langenfeld,
in Zusammenarbeit mit Clark Consulting & Research, Düsseldorf:

 * http://www.egenix.com/
 * http://www.clark-consulting.eu/



PROGRAMM

Das Python Meeting Düsseldorf nutzt eine Mischung aus (Lightning)
Talks und offener Diskussion.

Vorträge können vorher angemeldet werden, oder auch spontan während
des Treffens eingebracht werden. Ein Beamer mit XGA Auflösung
steht zur Verfügung.

(Lightning) Talk Anmeldung bitte formlos per EMail an i...@pyddf.de



KOSTENBETEILIGUNG

Das Python Meeting Düsseldorf wird von Python Nutzern für Python
Nutzer veranstaltet. Um die Kosten zumindest teilweise zu
refinanzieren, bitten wir die Teilnehmer um einen Beitrag in Höhe von
EUR 10,00 inkl. 19% Mwst, Schüler und Studenten zahlen EUR 5,00
inkl. 19% Mwst.

Wir möchten alle Teilnehmer bitten, den Betrag in bar mitzubringen.



ANMELDUNG

Da wir nur für ca. 20 Personen Sitzplätze haben, möchten wir
bitten, sich per EMail anzumelden. Damit wird keine Verpflichtung
eingegangen. Es erleichtert uns allerdings die Planung.

Meeting Anmeldung bitte per Meetup

https://www.meetup.com/Python-Meeting-Dusseldorf/

oder formlos per EMail an i...@pyddf.de



WEITERE INFORMATIONEN

Weitere Informationen finden Sie auf der Webseite des Meetings:

http://pyddf.de/

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

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Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Apr 09 2019)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...   http://products.egenix.com/
>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...   http://zope.egenix.com/


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