Re: New to python, do I need an IDE or is vim still good enough?
* Yuvraj Sharma [2012-12-28 01:37:23 -0800]: > Use IDLE > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > The OP is already a proficient C, C++, perl, ... hacker using console based tools and hardcore UNIX editors like vi(1) - I doubt he'll stay with IDLE for very long - once you've got accustomed to the UNIX environment and the command-line it's difficult and undesirable, in my experience, to switch to GUI stuff. Stick with what you've been using for the last couple of decades. These tools have stood the test of time for a good reason: they're powerful, efficient and made for the task of programming. Jamie -- Primary Key: 4096R/1D31DC38 2011-12-03 Key Fingerprint: A4B9 E875 A18C 6E11 F46D B788 BEE6 1251 1D31 DC38 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to python, do I need an IDE or is vim still good enough?
* mogul [2012-12-27 12:01:16 -0800]: > 'Aloha! > > I'm new to python, got 10-20 years perl and C experience, all gained on unix > alike machines hacking happily in vi, and later on in vim. > > Now it's python, and currently mainly on my kubuntu desktop. > > Do I really need a real IDE, as the windows guys around me say I do, or will > vim, git, make and other standalone tools make it the next 20 years too for > me? > > Oh, by the way, after 7 days I'm completely in love with this python thing. I > should have made the switch much earlier! > > /mogul %-) If these are the tools you're used to, stick with them. I have a tmux session with however many terminals open I need. I use the traditional vi editor (not vim) and the python shell/interpreter as well as the UNIX tools I need. A web browser and a separate urxvt window for my mutt client when I need to mail a list for some help. That's it. The benefit of the tmux client (terminal multiplexer) is that I can see all the screens at the same time and quickly switch between them. I believe Linux has screen(1) which does the same thing. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Brython - Python in the browser
* Ian Kelly [2012-12-19 17:54:44 -0700]: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > > That says that my browser, Firefox 17, does not support HTML5. Golly gee. I > > don't think any browser support5 all of that moving target, and Gecko > > apparently supports about as large a subset as most. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_%28HTML5%29 > > It is possible the FF still does not support the particular feature needed > > for the clock, but then the page should say just that. Has the latest FF > > (17) actually been tested? > > It works for me using FF 17.0.1. I'm using FF 13 on OpenBSD and it works for me too. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups
/ ru...@yahoo.com wrote on Fri 2.Nov'12 at 11:39:10 -0700 / > (I also hope I haven't just been suckered by a troll > attempt, windows/unix is better then unix/windows being > an age-old means of trolling.) No, i'm not a "troll". I was just adding my opinion to the thread, I assumed that was allowed. I didn't say UNIX is better than Windows, did I; I just feel that Windows is not -- for me anyway -- the most suitable plaform for learning about the science of computing and coding, etc... being a computer science student that's the view i have and share with those I learn with and from. Why must people be accused of trolling everytime they make a statement that conveys a preference over one platform or language, for example, than the other. Provoking someone by labeling them a troll or implying they might be is a bit childish really. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: datetime issue
/ ru...@yahoo.com wrote on Thu 1.Nov'12 at 15:00:48 -0700 / > > * In Search dialog clicked on the Search in folder dropdown after > an earlier search and TB crashed (disappeared along with the > new message I was editing.) [3.0.1] > > * Search for japanese text in body no longer works (never finds > text even when it exists). [3.0.1] Used to work. > > * Each mail message displays useless header info that uses 25% > of the available vertical space. > > * When editing a reply message, typing a return at eol results in > two blank lines inserted. > > * When editing message, siometimes edit cursor disappears > tho editing still seems to work normally. > > * Requires voodoo to create hmtl new message when default is > plain text or visa versa. Have to hold shift key while clicking > "write" button. Shift while choosing "new", "reply", etc in > menu doesn't work. > > * Frequently, clinking on a usenet newsgroup results in TB freeze. > Only solution is to remove group and re-add later. (Problem > since 2.x days.) > > * Frequently after an apparently normal shutdown, attempt to restart > results in "TB is already running" error. > > * Some folders in the folder tree view are greyed out and not > selectable even though they have no visible different properties > than selectable ones. Don't know how they got that way. > > * Clicking on a folder in the folder tree pane results in a pop- > up dialog "this folder is not selectable" that has to be dismissed, > even though one is trying to get it's properties, or is selecting > it to create a subfolder. > > * Messages change from "read" to "unread" in folders at random when > folder is accessed, or even when it is not accessed. [gone in 3.0.3?] > > * Interminttently, when I click a usenet message to view it, > the contents pane remains blank. Contents of that message > remain blank foreever. [new with 3.0.1]. > > * When TB main window closed while editing an email, can no longer > save the email, even if the TB main window is reopened. > > * Counts of new messages in usenet groups are often wildly high. > > * When opening up a usenet server, status bar reports "no new > messages on server" even though TB then updates the groups > with the new messages that *are* on the server. [new in 3.0.1] > > * After upgrade to TB-3.0, opening a usenet server results not > only in the group being scanned for new messages in each group > (as before) but also the headers for all those new messages > being downloaded (slow on a dialup connection and a waste of > time if I don't intend to read anything in that group). > No obvious way to revert to original behaviour. > > * Even tho the number of unread messages listed beside a usenet > group in the folder pane is less than the download limit, I > sometimes get pop-up asking how many messages to download, > when I access the group. (side effect of above problem I think.) > > * Sometimes TB downloads two copies of each header. > > * When I compress folders, get a series of several dozen pop- > up messages (each requiring a click on "OK") telling me > that foplder "xx" is not selectable. > > * Copy-paste from TB to other app fails if TB is closed > before the paste -- the paste buffer appears empty [TB-3.0b4] > > * Copy paste fails by removing text (forgot if it is just the > copied text or other text) in the TB message when pasted > somewhere else. [TB-2?] > > * After upgrade to TB-3.0x, i no longer see a way to create a > new imap subfolder. Had to create it using MSOE. > > * After upgrade to TB-3.0x double clicking on attached .jpg image > no longer opens it -- only option is to save and open outside > of TB. phfft. > > * HTF do you change the font size for plain text message composition? > Prefs has a setting for html but... > > * search of body for multiple "anded" text never ends if one of > the search boxes is empty. > > * Search "stop" button doesn't stop search. > > * One group frequently, without any action on my part, read thousands > of old articles, showing them as unread, and when I choose one, responds > with "article expired" message. (tb-3.0.4) [ ... ] With a list of problems like that maybe the time spent on learning how to use a Usenet client or mua that is properly written would be worthwhile. Personally I haven't used the Google Groups interface, and most likely never will so I can't really comment on how it performs or how nice it is to use but if you're happy with it that's the main thing. But you can't deny that it does cause irritating problems for other people trying to read information sent from it. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups
/ ru...@yahoo.com wrote on Thu 1.Nov'12 at 15:08:26 -0700 / > On 11/01/2012 03:55 AM, Jamie Paul Griffin wrote: > > Anybody serious about programming should be using a form of > > UNIX/Linux if you ask me. It's inconceivable that these systems > > should be avoided if you're serious about Software Engineering and > > Computer Science, etc. For UNIX there are loads of decent news > > reading software and mail user agents to learn and use. slrn is a > > good one and point it at gmane.org as someone else pointed out. I > > can't even imagine using a browser or Google Groups, etc. now. > Are you saying that this group is only for "serious" programmers? I don't see where my comments suggested that this group is only for serious programmers. I simply believe that the UNIX platform, in whatever form, is better placed and designed for all sorts of computing and engineering projects. The history of UNIX speaks for itself. Many Universities that offer respected and credible science based degree programmes, namely engineering and computing programmes, strongly encourage students to become competent with UNIX systems. Windows in my opinion is really for those who use the internet on a casual basis or in a commercial environment where its staff are not necessarily computer literate and therefore need a platform that they can use which doesn't require them to learn more complex techniques and protocols. But, having said that, I'm not against Windows at all. I use it frequently and enjoy using it most of the time. > "serious" is also a matter of opinion. I have some serious > programmer friends who maintain, in complete sincerity, that > serious programmers should not waste time on slow, script-kiddie > languages like Python, but should be developing their skills > with serious professional languages like Java, C#, etc. That is a narrow minded approach. different languages serve different purposes and it's down to the developer to use which language she needs to achieve what it is they've set out to do. Sometimes, basic shell scripts can be extremely powerful for certain tasks; other needs will require something different. I certainly wouldn't describe Python as a "script-kiddie" language. It's extremely powerful and modern. So there ;-P lol -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups
/ Steven D'Aprano wrote on Wed 31.Oct'12 at 22:33:16 + / > On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:32:57 -0700, rurpy wrote: > I don't killfile merely for posting from Gmail or Google Groups, but > regarding your second point, it has seemed to me for some years now that > Gmail is the new Hotmail, which was the new AOL. Whenever there is an > inane, lazy, mind-numbingly stupid question or post, chances are > extremely high that the sender has a Gmail address. That's a bit harsh but then, sadly there's some truth in it. I subscribe to a number of technical mailing lists, like that of my OS OpenBSD and the problem doesn't exist there whether they use Gmail or Hotmail, etc, or not. This and the tutor python list are the two I have the most problems with formatting. Some people just don't seem to give a shit about sending horrid html and other irritating formatted mail in spite of being asked not to do so. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups
/ Robert Miles wrote on Wed 31.Oct'12 at 0:39:02 -0500 / > For those of you running Linux: You may want to look into whether > NoCeM is compatible with your newsreader and your version of Linux. > It checks newsgroups news.lists.filters and alt.nocem.misc for lists > of spam posts, and will automatically hide them for you. Not available > for other operating systems, though, except possibly Unix. Anybody serious about programming should be using a form of UNIX/Linux if you ask me. It's inconceivable that these systems should be avoided if you're serious about Software Engineering and Computer Science, etc. For UNIX there are loads of decent news reading software and mail user agents to learn and use. slrn is a good one and point it at gmane.org as someone else pointed out. I can't even imagine using a browser or Google Groups, etc. now. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Functional way to compare things inside a list
[ Ian Kelly wrote on Sat 22.Sep'12 at 0:22:43 -0600 ] > On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Steven D'Aprano > wrote: > > On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 14:49:55 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 1:54 PM, 8 Dihedral > >> wrote: > >>> I don't think functional aspects are only marked as lazy programming. > >> > >> He wrote "lazy evaluation", not "lazy programming". Two entirely > >> different things. > > > > > > For the record, the consensus here is that 8 Dihedral is probably a > > bot. It appears to be a pretty good bot, I haven't spotted it making any > > egregious or obvious grammatical mistakes, but the semantics of its posts > > don't seem quite human. > > I'm aware of that, although sometimes the posts seem coherent enough > that I think maybe it's not. Especially the ones where it posts > almost-working code snippets, complete with obvious typos. > > Then it posts a complete non sequitur like the reply to my reply in > this thread, and the illusion is shattered. I find this intriguing, I had no idea bots existed to post to mailing lists in this way. What's the point of them? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue)
[ Joel Goldstick wrote on Sun 16.Sep'12 at 11:57:56 -0400 ] > email client to python-list@python.org If using Windows I would certainly use Thunderbird or even slrn news reader - I believe there is a version for Windows. Or you could install Interix subsystem which provides UNIX tools for Windows 7 Ultimate or Professional. You'd then have some more choice of MUA client or newsreader client in that environment. Cygwin is another alternative. UNIX systems just use whatever email client you like and subscribe to the list as explained several times by others. Fortunately for me I've got procmail deleting double posts because they are annoying. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Which Version of Python?
[ Ramchandra Apte wrote on Tue 11.Sep'12 at 19:58:29 -0700 ] > On Tuesday, 11 September 2012 22:19:08 UTC+5:30, Charles Hottel wrote: > > I have a lot of programming experience in many different languages and now > > > > I want to learn Python. Which version do you suggest I download, Python > > 2.x > > > > or Python 3.x ? Also why should I prefer one over the other? > > > > > > > > Right now I am thinkng Python 3.x as it has been out since 2008, but I have > > > > some concerns about backward compatibility with older packages that I might > > > > want to use. > > > > > > > > Thanks for your ideas and help. > > Use Python 3 because most packages support Python 3. Python 2.7 has many > features that Python 3 has so it will require minimal effort to write Python > 2.x code. When I first started to learn Python - about a year ago - I got myself a book which focuses on version 3 but is does also include Version 2. The author wrote that because a number of supporting libraries have not been updated to work in Python 3, and where "it is felt that the theory still needs to be expounded upon" Python 2.x will be used in lieu of Python 3. I personally, as a beginner, have found this approach helpful. Although, when this book was published Python 3.1 was the latest release, so of course since then said libraries most probably have been updated. So, as a fellow beginner i'd go for version 3.x. Jamie. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Books?
[ Virgil Stokes wrote on Wed 22.Aug'12 at 16:34:40 +0200 ] > On 22-Aug-2012 16:04, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 18:36:50 -0700, Anonymous Group wrote: > > > >> What books do you recomend for learning python? Preferably free and/or > >> online. > > Completely by coincidence, I have just discovered, and I mean *literally* > > just a few minutes ago, this book: > > > > http://www.springer.com/mathematics/computational+science+%26+engineering/book/978-3-642-30292-3 > > > > http://codingcat.com/knjige/python/A%20Primer%20on%20Scientific%20Programming%20with%20Python.pdf > > > > > > I wish it had existed when I was a beginner! I haven't read the whole > > thing, but dammit it looks like exactly the sort of book I would have > > adored as a newbie. (Your mileage may vary.) > > > > > > > I second this --- this is a very good book IMHO. I have the first edition > (2009) > and have found it very useful. > > Good tip! absolutely. I've been reading it most of last night, certainly a great learning resource. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Books?
[ Mark Lawrence wrote on Wed 22.Aug'12 at 8:43:58 +0100 ] > On 22/08/2012 02:36, Anonymous Group wrote: > > What books do you recomend for learning python? Preferably free and/or > > online. > > > > Search for the Alan Gauld tutorial. I've never used it myself, but OTOH > I've never heard anybody complain about it!!! > > As someone else has already mentioned it, I'd highly recommend Dive Into > Python I bought "Beginning Python - Using Python 2.6 and 3.1" by James Payne, published by Wrox www.wrox.com. I've found it quite good so far, it's pretty comprehensive. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [ANNC] pybotwar-0.8
[ Ramchandra Apte wrote on Sat 18.Aug'12 at 19:21:03 +0530 ] > I'll be using Google Groups (hopefully it won't top-post by default) to > post stuff. You are encouraged to get used to it i'm afraid as any mailing list you use, its users will prefer you to use the correct formatting of responses. You can change the settings in Gmail web interface or use an MUA and configure that. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
