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do you have testbank for Small Business Management: Launching & Growing Entrepreneurial Ventures, 18th Edition by Justin G. LongeneckerJ. William Petty -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Fw: Programming Python for Absolute Beginners
I replied to 'm' but I really wanted to reply to the whole group - Patty Here it is: - Original Message - From: "Patty" To: Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: Programming Python for Absolute Beginners - Original Message - From: "harrismh777" Newsgroups: comp.lang.python To: Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:02 PM Subject: Re: Programming Python for Absolute Beginners Billy Mays wrote: No one cares and don't spam the list. ... ouch, now I feel really bad... has someone not had their coffee this morning? kind regards, -- m harris FSF ...free as in freedom/ http://webpages.charter.net/harrismh777/gnulinux/gnulinux.htm -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Oh! And I felt completely differently about this! I appreciate your story and I also really liked Dawsons book and do have the 3rd edition. And I was drinking a good cup of coffee while reading your email message - wow! I love stories, storytelling, history and C programming and python programming and Language -- I would think that all of these interests -- and quiet time for quiet studying and pursuits -- would Expand your mind -- I would rather like having you around in my working environment 'm' ! And my husband and I just realized that I may very well never be employed again -- and trying to figure out what to do with me -- so having varied interests outside of programming may be a Very Good Thing for your future. Regards, Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is the Usenet to mailing list gateway borked?
- Original Message - From: "Andrew Berg" To: "comp.lang.python" Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:34 PM Subject: Is the Usenet to mailing list gateway borked? I didn't get at least two messages from the "call a function every 10 seconds thread", and possibly some other messages, and I access the group via the mailing list. I use the latest stable Thunderbird, if that matters. I've only noticed this recently, and I'm still getting other messages. In fact, I only noticed this because I got a message that referenced messages I didn't get. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list This just happened to me as well, I probably did not receive the same messages as Andrew from this same 'call a function' thread. I don't believe I missed any messages from previous threads. I use Outlook Express. Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Rant on web browsers
- Original Message - From: "Chris Angelico" To: Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 11:31 PM Subject: Rant on web browsers Random rant and not very on-topic. Feel free to hit Delete and move on. I've just spent a day coding in Javascript, and wishing browsers supported Python instead (or as well). All I needed to do was take two dates (as strings), figure out the difference in days, add that many days to both dates, and put the results back into DOM Input objects (form entry fields). Pretty simple, right? Javascript has a Date class, it should be fine. But no. First, the date object can't be outputted as a formatted string. The only way to output a date is "Feb 21 2011". So I have to get the three components (oh and the month is 0-11, not 1-12) and emit those. And Javascript doesn't have a simple format function that would force the numbers to come out with leading zeroes, so I don't bother with that. What if I want to accept any delimiter in the date - slash, hyphen, or dot? Can I just do a simple translate, turn all slashes and dots into hyphens? Nope. Have to go regular expression if you want to change more than the first instance of something. There's no nice string parse function (like sscanf with "%d-%d-%d"), so I hope every browser out there has a fast regex engine. When all you have is a half-ton sledgehammer, everything looks like a really REALLY flat nail... Plus, Javascript debugging is annoyingly difficult if you don't have tools handy. I need third-party tools to do anything other than code blind? Thanks. Oh, and "int i" is illegal in Javascript. Whoops. That one is my fault, though. Javascript's greatest strength is that it exists in everyone's browser. That is simultaneously it's worst failing, because it becomes nigh impossible to improve it. If Chrome's V8 starts supporting new features and everyone else's JS engines don't, we can't use those features. Even if they're added to the standard, there'll still be old browsers that don't support things. The only way to add to the language is to dump stuff into a .js file and include it everywhere. But if anyone feels like writing an incompatible browser, please can you add Python scripting? Chris Angelico -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Hi Chris - I am just learning JavaScript and this was helpful to me, not a rant. I am reading JavaScript: The Good Parts so he is jumping around in topic and I can just use this when learning about dates and ints coming up. Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Binding was Re: Function declarations ?
- Original Message - From: "Ethan Furman" To: Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 10:55 PM Subject: Re: Binding was Re: Function declarations ? Patty wrote: So I am wondering if you learned this in Computer Science or Computer Engineering?, on the job? I learned it on this list. :) ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Smarty - I guess I can say the same thing - I understand it or was I supposed to add '+1' ? I learned that on this list ;) Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Binding was Re: Function declarations ?
"Gregory Ewing" wrote in message news:95ntrifod...@mid.individual.net... > Tim Roberts wrote: >> Andre Majorel wrote: >> >>>Anyway, it seems the Python way to declare a function is >>> >>> def f (): >>> pass >> >> No, that DEFINES a function. > > Actually, it's more illuminating to say that it *creates* a function. > > The 'def' statement in Python is an executable statement. Executing > it has the effect of creating a function object and binding it to > the indicated name. Before that has happened, attempting to execute > any code referring to that name will fail. > > Conversely, the function name doesn't need to be bound until the > code referring to it is actually executed. So... > >> def g(): >> return f() >> def f(): >> return 3 >> print g() > > works because by the time g is *called*, both def statements > have been executed, and both function names have therefore been > bound. > > -- > Greg > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > Hello folks - I understand all of the above (well I suppose intuitively based on the below) but had a longtime question and this is an opportunity to ask. I have a B.A. in Linguistics and there was a topic they teach 'binding theory'. This was taught in the graduate classes or some that I didn't take. I will bet that these things are related - binding theory and this tossing around of words in software development like 'bound' and 'binding them'. So I am wondering if you learned this in Computer Science or Computer Engineering?, on the job? Is there a different theory in Computer Science than I would find in linguistics? OK - so I just grabbed one of my semantics books and found one thing in the index 'bound occurence of a reference in a formula', doesn't really help. It is in the Predicate Logic section and just used while he is trying to explain something else, used in context. Thanks Patty-- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The worth of comments
- Original Message - From: "Ethan Furman" To: Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 11:14 AM Subject: Re: The worth of comments Miki Tebeka wrote: https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=ah82mvnssv5d_162dbgx78gw ;) +1 That was hilarious. ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list I know - since I am not working right now, it totally made me wonder why I put comments in Python code at all -- or even have anything to do with code -- and plans being made to spend the rest of the day laying around in the hammock :) Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The worth of comments
- Original Message - From: "Richard Parker" To: Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 11:50 AM Subject: The worth of comments On May 26, 2011, at 4:28 AM, python-list-requ...@python.org wrote: My experience is that comments in Python are of relatively low usefulness. (For avoidance of doubt: not *zero* usefulness, merely low.) I can name variables, functions and classes with sensible, self- documenting names. Why write: x = get_results(arg) # x is a list of 1 or more results [... much later] for y in x: # process each result in turn do_something_with(y) (It occurred to me that I should use a specific subject for this discussion.) I'm less inclined to use comments on each line, or selected lines, but rather use block comments instead. They require more thought and time to write; however, the intended functionality of the code that follows can be described in full. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Hello Richard - I was recently complimented in a phone screen interview for including comment blocks exactly as you describe above. Regards, Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python in CS1
- Original Message - From: "Corey Richardson" To: Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Python in CS1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/21/2011 04:30 AM, Franck Ditter wrote: Except at MIT, who knows some good CS1 references for teaching Python ? Thanks, franck Check out http://www.python.org/community/sigs/current/edu-sig/, and if nothing there satisfies you jump over onto the edu-sig list. - -- Corey Richardson -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJN18oPAAoJEAFAbo/KNFvp9MwH/0zXSTTaxAwYPLSxhyirqr3X DUxyulE5HRn+NIarWyomlDfoayip3boyUBG1GQDDKh+sIIzPT9ETfL7+ep9rwkL4 VA7XSDMLu+4DtUlnFjGlfxCz1REYKVvS4m/9w68F0kRflh5XZzDRBbTz0nXMiMM8 /UPBV8cX1XDq+RYis1baIlMSaro6sK3mHW5avBd9RxO4+IzH0TtKw510EWfRvZ8e ssdEUXZwxHmI0eRwYovynJ7VdLWwY/FLKuuoKl1IOpRwbAH8LtLtAAudHDZKOo9X ctwYfwGPCg39gz+fuJFFUGI6oYw8dkqiDi2su/QwN8JsaMXv4xeOc2ZXkZVYMiM= =7xLM -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Thank you for forwarding this link Corey! It is very interesting and informative. Regards, Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Proper way to handle errors in a module
- Original Message - From: "Andrew Berg" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:29 AM Subject: Proper way to handle errors in a module I'm a bit new to programming outside of shell scripts (and I'm no expert there), so I was wondering what is considered the best way to handle errors when writing a module. Do I just let exceptions go and raise custom exceptions for errors that don't trigger a standard one? Have the function/method return nothing or a default value and show an error message? I'm sure there's not a clear-cut answer, but I was just wondering what most developers would expect a module to do in certain situations. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Hi Andrew - Sometimes you want an exception come up and then use that information to take your program in some direction. For example, you might want your program to 'see' the exception that comes up when you go one beyond the end of an array. This means that something you wanted to happen within the array you set up finished successfully (the program just reached one beyond it and you didn't get an error!). The enduser doesn't need to see this displayed on the screen or in a window, you can just use an exception as-is to your advantage within the program. Regards, Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: function annotations in open source projects
- Original Message - From: geremy condra To: Filip Gruszczynski Cc: python-list@python.org Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:37 AM Subject: function annotations in open source projects I use them in evpy to automatically wrap c functions with a decorated, annotated function. The decorator code is also up on aspn, just search for "c function decorator" and it should come up. I did a similar thing with java a few years ago as well. Geremy Condra -- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Hello Geremy - I would like to see this. I couldn't see in the other reference, "threecheck uses them for type checking: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/threecheck"; from Daniels message where to start looking on their site what the code actually looks like. I googled "c function decorator" but it looks like you have this on something called aspn? What is that link?? Thanks Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio from Microsoft - Free & Open Source
- Original Message - From: "Dino Viehland" To: "Patty" ; ; "roland garros" ; Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:01 PM Subject: RE: Python Tools for Visual Studio from Microsoft - Free & Open Source Patty wrote: Thanks so much for this reference - and the detailed further explanation! I have a Windows 7 system and recently installed Visual Studio 2010 for the SQL Server, Visual C/C++ and Visual Basic. I would love to have this Python tool installed under Visual Studio but a few questions: 1) I have regular Python installed not Cpython or Jpython or any other variant (have both 2.6 and 3.2 versions) so would that be a problem and it won't install or won't work? 2) I saw that this was a beta, would there be an automatic notification that there are upgrades (I mean within the software itself) or would it be advisable for me to wait until it goes final because I am relatively newer to Python and maybe shouldn't be mucking with a beta of something 3) there is a message bar at the top right corner of the web page that a certain number of people are 'following this project' Is that where you would rely on for upgrades notifications or what exactly would you be following as far as a 'project' of this type? CPython is actually regular Python - the C just clarifies that it's the implementation written in C (vs. C#, Java, or Python). Oh! :) There won't be any notification of updates via the software it's self but given that you heard about the 1st release within days of it coming out my guess is you'll hear about the updates as well. You're right. I'm not actually certain if following a project on CodePlex will give you e-mail notifications or not. I typically subscribe to CodePlex's RSS feed for projects I'm implemented in - for example this feed http://pytools.codeplex.com/project/feeds/rss includes all changes to the project. There's other feeds below the RSS button which track just new releases or other things. I see - I am on a diff computer right now but want to check out this CodePlex site further from the Windows 7 system later. It looks interesting. Thanks, Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio from Microsoft - Free & Open Source
- Original Message - From: To: "roland garros" ; Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:03 AM Subject: Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio from Microsoft - Free & Open Source Roland, http://pytools.codeplex.com Looks very impressive! Thank you for sharing this work. For others following this thread - this add-in to Visual Studio works with CPython 2.5 - 3.2 and is not dependent on .NET or IronPython - this project also brings HPC (high performance computing) and MPI support to CPython using the latest Microsoft API's for large scale data and computing Regards, Malcolm -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Thanks so much for this reference - and the detailed further explanation! I have a Windows 7 system and recently installed Visual Studio 2010 for the SQL Server, Visual C/C++ and Visual Basic. I would love to have this Python tool installed under Visual Studio but a few questions: 1) I have regular Python installed not Cpython or Jpython or any other variant (have both 2.6 and 3.2 versions) so would that be a problem and it won't install or won't work? 2) I saw that this was a beta, would there be an automatic notification that there are upgrades (I mean within the software itself) or would it be advisable for me to wait until it goes final because I am relatively newer to Python and maybe shouldn't be mucking with a beta of something 3) there is a message bar at the top right corner of the web page that a certain number of people are 'following this project' Is that where you would rely on for upgrades notifications or what exactly would you be following as far as a 'project' of this type? Regards, Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: multiple values for keyword argument
Here is a list of the compiled personalities... #-- Moderates --# Patty ? 26 moderates 31 trolls, minions, sockpuppets, and or flamers 2 missing in action = This community needs serious help! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list How Embarrassing!! This caused great blushing!! Being categorized on a big email list...also not sure why I am not on the "#-- Complete Nobodys --#" list. You hit me right in my shy streak. I am really capable of a lot of participation on email lists and considering attending one of the BayPiggies in-person meetings and getting more involved. But I need to get smarter about Python programming first. This might _make_ me go MIA....yikes! Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: multiple values for keyword argument
- Original Message - From: "Jean-Michel Pichavant" To: "Patty" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 2:27 AM Subject: Re: multiple values for keyword argument Patty wrote: pa...@cruzio.com wrote: I have been avoiding understanding this 'self', [snip] Regards, Patty What is to be understood ?? self references the instance. Did I miss something ? JM Yes, there was more. And it's been fully explained at this point. Patty Hmm... I re-read the thread just in case ... Anyway. I'd like to read suggestions for self replacements... Currently 'yo' have been proposed. I'm just curious, I promise I won't make any comment :D JM Hi Jean-Michel - I'm sorry. I was getting sensitive about being criticized (or trying to re-explain what I learned and getting it terribly mangled). As it turns out - Westley Martinez pointed out the link about the usage of 'self' : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_(computer_science)and these specific two lines showed me why I had been thinking I (we) could replace the word 'self' with any descriptive word (variable) I want. I was thinking of 'self' as a variable and not "In Python, there is no keyword for this, but it exists as the name of the obligatory first argument of all member functions. Conventionally, the name self is used." And since I come from a C background, I thought I could do the following (which the wiki page mentions) :} ) , thus I wanted to use an invented variable name that makes sense to me and helped me as programmer remember where I was in my program when I went and tried to reassign new values, basically override my object at will. But this is what I did not realize: "the assignment does not modify the original object, only changing which object that the rest of the code in the method refers to" << "Some languages, such as Objective-C, allow assignment to self, although it is deprecated." And then after the thread ended - I read this in the wiki page which totally explains everything -- "Early versions of C++ would let the this pointer be changed; by doing so a programmer could change which object a method was working on" and I learned C++ from an early version so this is Precisely what I thought I could do -- I was envisioning having my object (member function) and then as my program forked different paths, well I thought I could do this very program design. Hopefully that makes more sense as to why I would change the 'name of the obligatory first argument of all member functions'. As other people pointed out, you _can_ make up your own name, 'yo' or anything else, it is by _convention_ to use 'self' and by doing your own thing, could develop a bad habit. Regards, Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: multiple values for keyword argument
>- Original Message - >From: Westley Martínez >To: python-list@python.org >Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 3:27 PM >Subject: Re: multiple values for keyword argument >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_(computer_science) Hello Westley: Thank you for the reference. I saw something in it that I think is what tripped me up in my understanding of 'self'. I printed out the page to absorb more later. It helps me to learn when the concept is introduced to me in terms of comparison to other languages so I like this page. Here are the two lines from the wiki page, I was probably going to try and 'assign to self' and expecting that I was modifying the original object like it says. In turn, that is what was leading me to want to name 'self' anything I want, to jog my memory as to 'where it came from' because '*I* am assigning it'. [I know I should be documenting my code clearly and my memory shouldn't need to be jogged :} ]. "Some languages, such as Objective-C, allow assignment to this, although it is deprecated. Doing so can be very misleading to maintenance programmers, because the assignment does not modify the original object, only changing which object that the rest of the code in the method refers to, and can end with undefined behavior" Regards - Patty On Mon, 2011-01-31 at 13:20 -0800, Patty wrote: - Original Message - From: "Jean-Michel Pichavant" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:35 AM Subject: Re: multiple values for keyword argument > pa...@cruzio.com wrote: >> I have been avoiding understanding this 'self', >> [snip] >> Regards, >> >> Patty >> > What is to be understood ?? self references the instance. Did I miss > something ? > > JM > > > Yes, there was more. And it's been fully explained at this point. Patty -- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: multiple values for keyword argument
- Original Message - From: "Jean-Michel Pichavant" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:35 AM Subject: Re: multiple values for keyword argument pa...@cruzio.com wrote: I have been avoiding understanding this 'self', [snip] Regards, Patty What is to be understood ?? self references the instance. Did I miss something ? JM Yes, there was more. And it's been fully explained at this point. Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: multiple values for keyword argument
> On 29 January 2011 18:39, wrote: >>> I, myself, use the spanish word 'yo' instead (less keystrokes, I hate >>> 'self', and it amuses me); if I'm working with my numerical experiments >>> I'll use 'n' or 'x'... although, when posting sample code to c.l.py I >>> do >>> try to use 'self' to avoid possible confusion. Â :) >> >> I am glad you said this. Â I have been avoiding understanding this >> 'self', >> just accepting it :} Â For the time being, since my programs I am >> creating >> are for my own use, I think I will make my own names up, that are >> descriptive to me as the programmer, it's all going to be interpreted >> anyway. Â And the other email equating to C's argv, etc. - now I get it. > > It's perfectly legal to use a name other than self. It's alo perfectly > legal never to wash - and you won't make any friends that way either. > > -- > Cheers, > Simon B. > > Cute. Believe me, I am learning to change my evil ways. This is what happens when you come from a *long* line of self-employed, entrepreneurial people. Independently Yours, Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: multiple values for keyword argument
Well - this is all timely email. I just spent the day configuring my HP mini
netbook running Windows 7 with all the right software based on recomendations
from folks on this list, from the Python Tutor list and an email group of
former colleagues where I spelled out exactly all the programming languages and
stuff I ideally wanted. It has been very enlightening and actually not so
difficult! Asking pays off! And I made a few realizations - I had some
misperceptions about some software packages and -- I had been thinking about
this 'self' business since yesterday. And you and Ethan and Ben Finney from
yesterday (the last email msg I read last night, might know) are right -- I was
being stubborn and wanting to do things *my* way and I was telling myself that
when it comes time to do this for a future employer, well I will just change my
code in the appropriate places to 'self' and will start using 'self' when I
start working for them. And a little thought in the back of my head ... I
wonder if the employer would be a little annoyed by that :)
OK - I need my hand slapped sometimes and I see that you all are trying to
prevent me from developing a bad habit. A few comments below:
"Steven D'Aprano" wrote in message
news:4d453127$0$29965$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com...
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:39:49 -0800, patty wrote:
>
>> I am glad you said this. I have been avoiding understanding this
>> 'self', just accepting it :} For the time being, since my programs I am
>> creating are for my own use, I think I will make my own names up, that
>> are descriptive to me as the programmer, it's all going to be
>> interpreted anyway. And the other email equating to C's argv, etc. -
>> now I get it.
>
>
> That's a shame, because `self` is actually very simple once you
> understand the basic principles of object-oriented programming.
>
> What names would you choose? Unless you're writing descriptors, or using
> class methods, both of which should be considered advanced usage (highly
> advanced for descriptors, moderately so for class methods), it's not like
> every method needs a different descriptive first argument. In English,
> "self", "this", "me" or "instance" would be good names. What else would
> you use?
That is the thing, I can get quite creative. I envisioned myself giving it a
name something like 'instancecalledfrommain' probably scrunched up to
'instfrmmain'
Weird descriptive names like that. I keep thinking of it as a variable, so I
keep thinking of what it is used for underlying its name. Back to the
I-can-do-anything-I-want
mindset.
I have saved the messages in this thread and other ones from the last month or
so about 'self' so I think I will gather them together and read them more
carefully including your very good explanations below.
>
>
> The idea of method syntax is that you start with an instance of some
> class:
>
> mystring = "hello world" # an instance of the str class
>
> In procedural languages like C or Pascal, you would call a function and
> give the string as an argument. Python supports this programming model,
> and uses it for built-ins like len:
>
> len(mystring)
> => returns 11
>
>
And I am more comfortable in the C and Pascal worlds as a base so I see why I
go this direction.
> Object oriented programming uses a different syntax. Instead of
>
> function(instance)
>
> as above, we take the instance argument outside the brackets. For example:
>
> mystring.upper() # instead of upper(mystring)
> => returns "HELLO WORLD"
>
> If there are any extra arguments needed, they go inside the brackets as
> normal.
>
> So far, this is just a change of syntax. It's like saying "The cat of my
> brother's" vs. "my brother's cat" -- the meaning is the same, but the
> syntax differs.
And I am a linguist so now you are Really talking ;)
The real advantages of object oriented programming and
> methods come elsewhere (e.g. encapsulation and inheritance).
>
>[Aside: when I was learning this, the hardest part I found was
>remembering which things were functions, and which were methods.
>I kept writing (wrongly!) things like:
>
>"hello world".len()
>upper("hello world")
>
>Unfortunately there is no easy way to recognise what will be a
>function like len, and which are methods like upper. That will
>come with experience.
Oh! I do this! I seem to use this syntax interchangably. I really need to
memorize this carefully.
>
> Back to function/procedu
Re: multiple values for keyword argument
> Roy Smith wrote: >> In article <8qijsgfgu...@mid.dfncis.de>, >> Frank Dierkes wrote: >> >>> Naming the first parameter self is only a convention. It could be any >>> other name, too. >> >> But it shouldn't. The use of "self" is so universal that using anything >> else will just make your code more difficult for other people to >> understand. > > Nevertheless, if you have a good reason to, go ahead. > > I, myself, use the spanish word 'yo' instead (less keystrokes, I hate > 'self', and it amuses me); if I'm working with my numerical experiments > I'll use 'n' or 'x'... although, when posting sample code to c.l.py I do > try to use 'self' to avoid possible confusion. :) > > ~Ethan~ > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list I am glad you said this. I have been avoiding understanding this 'self', just accepting it :} For the time being, since my programs I am creating are for my own use, I think I will make my own names up, that are descriptive to me as the programmer, it's all going to be interpreted anyway. And the other email equating to C's argv, etc. - now I get it. Regards, Patty > > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly!
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:45:22 -0800, Patty wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "geremy condra" To: > On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, wrote: >> >> Now I think I understand a little better where you all are coming from >> -- I am a Unix person and I guess I expected to have to learn GUI's >> using whatever is provided for me by default. Which isn't a bad thing. >> And if I had to add additional software - and learn that - so be it. I >> am using a Windows XP system and a Windows 7 system presently. Some day >> I would like to switch out the Windows XP for Unix. > > Just dual boot, it isn't hard. > IME you'll find that networking a Windows box to an older, slower PC thats rescued from the attic will be much more useful than a single dual-boot arrangement. Linux will run at a usable speed on a PC with 512 MB RAM and an 866 MHz P3, though some things, such as logging in, will be slow with a graphical desktop (runlevel 5), but if it has more RAM or you run an X-server on another PC, which could be running Windows, you'll execute commands, including graphical ones - provided you have X.11 forwarding enabled, a lot faster. The Linux box can also be headless if you haven't a screen and keyboard to spare. In short, Linux will run well on a PC that can't run anything more recent than Win98 at an acceptable speed. It doesn't need a lot of disk either - anything more than 30 GB will do. However, an optical drive is needed for installation. You can install Fedora from a CD drive provided the box is networked so it can retrieve most of its packages over the net, but using a DVD drive would be easier for a first install. > True. I have a Compaq Presario that is so old hardware-wise that I > don't think it could handle Unix or Linux. > What speed and type of CPU does it use? How much RAM? What's about disk and optical drives? FWIW my house server is an IMB Netvista that is at least 10 years old - 866MHz P3, 512 GB RAM, LG DVD drive, new 160GB hdd and runs Fedora 13. It is a bit slow at runlevel 5 (graphical desktop) when driven from its own console, but I usually access it over the house net from a more modern Core Duo laptop that runs Fedora 14. The NetVista is more than adequate for web and RDBMS development (Apache and PostgreSQL) in Python or Java and very fast for C compilation. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Martin and Geremy - thank you for the suggestions. My Compaq Presario I know is maxed out on memory and I checked and my Maxtor drive says it is 28624 MB. I don't know if that is enough? I have my HP Mini Netbook running Windows 7 and do my Python programming on it. It is awesome! I don't really care if my Compaq had Windows XP plus Linux or just Linux. I would be happy to just back up what I want and install Linux for the whole Compaq and just have the two communicate. I really use the Compaq more as an email and file archive. I would probably rethink which software programming tools and languages I would want on each machine. I consider myself a C programmer and SQL and I am a linguist - several programming languages - so I would be more likely to want compilers and interpreters, favorite IDEs installed on whichever system. Patty-- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly!
On Jan 19, 12:22 pm, pa...@cruzio.com wrote: > Who or what group is actually in charge of what libraries (and programming > commands/methods such as the Python 3.x rewrite of 'print') goes into > Python? Well it comes down to "Guido, some Guys, and a mailing list". see this link fro more detail... http://www.python.org/dev/intro/ Well that explains Everything! > Is this huge discussion really a few feature requests for > additional libraries to be included for Windows programming? No, this HUGE discussion is primarily about the worth of Tkinter as our chosen GUI module and whether or not we should replace it. It also contains (and rightly so!) undertones as to the lost vision within this community as a whole. Not to mention the missing cohesiveness to move forward in the correct direction. I see why you say this. I think I am playing catchup with what has been going on for some time amongst you all. > And aren't > some of these libraries developed by 3rd parties? Yes Python has many 3rd party packages available. You should familiarize yourself with both the current stdlib AND the packages list. Both are here... http://pypi.python.org/pypi?:action=index http://docs.python.org/release/3.0.1/modindex.html > And how is that handled > by the people in charge? Do they have to pay to license it or is this all > freely contributed software? This statement needs clarification because i cannot decide if you are asking from a Python stdlib perspective or a 3rd party package perspective. In any event Python and the stdlib should be all free and open software. And shame on anyone who releases closed source software! Shame on you greedies! Shame on you! >:( And I am coming from background working at SCO for commercial SCO Unix and also commercial applications software. So free software is not something I am used to :) And understand what is involved with obtaining 3rd party pieces either by necessity or because of an acquistion. And the money part. It was complicated. So I was thinking from the python stdlib perspective. But your comment turned my thinking around to where it should be to discuss open source software. I don't think I am ready for the py-dev mailing list yet ;) But I do have some big ideas because of UCSC (University of California, Santa Cruz) being so close, their Computer Engineering Dept. is Really Good and I have some connections up there. Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly!
- Original Message - From: "geremy condra" To: Cc: "rantingrick" ; Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: Re: Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly! On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, wrote: Now I think I understand a little better where you all are coming from -- I am a Unix person and I guess I expected to have to learn GUI's using whatever is provided for me by default. Which isn't a bad thing. And if I had to add additional software - and learn that - so be it. I am using a Windows XP system and a Windows 7 system presently. Some day I would like to switch out the Windows XP for Unix. Just dual boot, it isn't hard. True. I have a Compaq Presario that is so old hardware-wise that I don't think it could handle Unix or Linux. Thanks for the link to the Python page about the various packages, that was enlightening. Who or what group is actually in charge of what libraries (and programming commands/methods such as the Python 3.x rewrite of 'print') goes into Python? Python's developers. There isn't really any other formal structure beyond that. Is this huge discussion really a few feature requests for additional libraries to be included for Windows programming? No, it's about other operating systems too, but what it comes down to is that rantingrick has been on the warpath about tkinter for a while, and hasn't proposed a particularly viable alternative. The sad thing is that if he weren't so unhinged his proposal would probably fare much better- I know I And aren't some of these libraries developed by 3rd parties? Any library to replace tkinter would come from a third party, yes. And how is that handled by the people in charge? Again, there aren't really people 'in charge' on this. Whoever wanted to push for this would have to do the legwork to make sure that the library on offer was good enough to win a lot of support from the community, was cross-platform, etc. They'd also have to convince someone with commit privs that it was a great idea, convince the rest of the dev group not to oppose it. After that would come the difficult task of slowly phasing tkinter out, which would involve substantial long-term commitment. In other words, whoever wants to push for this is in for a hard, multi-year slog. Nobody has stepped up to the plate to do any real work towards that goal. Do they have to pay to license it or is this all freely contributed software? I can't imagine non-free code making it in. Geremy Condra From my past experience - I think you are right, this is the course of events that would have to happen and yes, it would literally take years. Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly!
> On Jan 18, 9:54 pm, Adam Skutt wrote: >> On Jan 18, 9:27 pm, Corey Richardson wrote: >> At which point, it's pretty damn >> small. Not as small as all of the Tk functionality, I think, but well >> under 10MiB compressed. > > Yea but look at all your gaining. I would rather sacrifice a few megs > for the rich functionality and scalability any day. > > >> The problem to me isn't the size (though some might find it >> objectionable), but the system dependencies you have to take: >> wxWidgets requires GTK+ on UNIX > > UNIX? are you kidding? Even if these dependancies are needed the > "UNIX" folks are damn capable of finding and installing them with > great ease. Besides most ship with this out the box already! We are > not talking about the lemmings who use windows or even the weekend > linuxers here. If they are using UNIX then there is no need for "hand > holding". > >> , which requires a whole mess of crap >> in term, plus swig, plus whatever else I may or may not be missing. > > Thats quite an exaggeration Adam. > >> I'm also not 100% certain as to whether it's as portable as Tk is >> today. > > Wx is just as portable as Tk > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > Now I think I understand a little better where you all are coming from -- I am a Unix person and I guess I expected to have to learn GUI's using whatever is provided for me by default. Which isn't a bad thing. And if I had to add additional software - and learn that - so be it. I am using a Windows XP system and a Windows 7 system presently. Some day I would like to switch out the Windows XP for Unix. Thanks for the link to the Python page about the various packages, that was enlightening. Who or what group is actually in charge of what libraries (and programming commands/methods such as the Python 3.x rewrite of 'print') goes into Python? Is this huge discussion really a few feature requests for additional libraries to be included for Windows programming? And aren't some of these libraries developed by 3rd parties? And how is that handled by the people in charge? Do they have to pay to license it or is this all freely contributed software? Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly!
- Original Message - From: "Corey Richardson" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 5:19 PM Subject: Re: Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly! On 01/18/2011 07:53 PM, rantingrick wrote: On Jan 18, 6:23 pm, Adam Skutt wrote: [snip] Adam, it is now evident that your view of the world is, at best, a superficial one. You are shallow and incapable of any coherent abstract reasoning abilities. I genuinely hope this is due to some emotional distress you are suffering and not a chronic condition, because if not, you need to give some deep mediative thoughts to how you are perceiving the world around you to heal your mind of this improper processing. Being argumentative just for the sake of being argumentative is a never ending cycle of foolishness. Now, at some point earlier you had begin to display some coherency and insights. I sure hope that behavior will return soon..? Because insulting others is completely how things get done. As to the button/hyperlink, they may both share some common functionality and even a common ancestor, they are different beings, otherwise they wouldn't be two separate things. It may even be that a hyperlink is a type of button, but that doesn't make a button a hyperlink. (Plant/tree, rectangle/square type deal). I for one am quite pleased with Tkinter up to this point. It allowed me to come in with extremely minimal GUI experience, and make something that worked with minimal effort. It was simple to understand, no concepts of slots and signals to learn. A project I'm working on requires PyQt, so I use PyQt. Is the fact that it's not in the stdlib a detriment? No. I think Tkinter _should_ be in the stdlib because it's simple. If something else were to take it's place I would hope that it is as easy to learn/use as Tkinter is. But I think this whole thread has gotten off topic. Why should Tkinter be replaced? Why was it added there in the first place? What should replace it, and why? Instead of arguing about little piddly details like the difference between a button and a hyperlink, just stick to the task at hand that you yourself presented. My two cents, ~Corey -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list I agree with Corey - I also had very little experience with creating a GUI and using Tkinter combined with PIL plus a little help from various docs and getting a couple questions answered, I was pleased to find that it required very few actual lines of code to create a basic small window and display text and pictures that I am happy with and I am sure I can use this small module as a base to expand on if I want to. Regards, Patty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
sorting question
The website you list regarding 9-letter scrambled words doesn't exist any longer. Is there another way that I can access it to see your program you designed? I have a nine letter work I need to unscramble. I will send it just in case you can figure it out for me and let me know. KAEOSYBRD I'm not very good at that sort of thing, but would love to know the answer to this one. Thank you, Patty [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
