Re: (PHP or Python) Developing something like www.tribe.net
Well, let me specialize my sentence > CherryPy and Quixote are for programming in the small in > CherryPy and Quixote are good for programming in the small meaning that these frameworks help you when programming in the small. This statement does NOT imply that they get in your way when you program in the large. I just lack the experience in programming in the large with CherryPy and/or Quixote. Also, let me specify what I mean by "programming in the large": if a single person can grasp the application, and the application can be implemented by a single team, then you are programming in the small. You are programming in the large only when you have many independent team of developers and you have coordination problems. In this situation a component architecture is supposed to help (and maybe it does, I lack the field experience to give an opinion), whereas when working in the small a component architecture can just get in your way. It is easy to evaluate a framework in the small: it is enough to ask to self the question "how much time did it take to me to write my first Web site in that framework starting from zero?". OTOH, to evaluate a framework for programming in the large takes years of experience and practice, and I will not hazard any opinion ;) Still, I believe it is possible to have a frameworks which is scalable both in the small and in the large. Look for instance at the programming language spectrum: Java was intended to program in the large and it is pretty bad when programming in the small; Perl, on the other hand, was meant to program in the small and does not scale at all in the large. However, Python works equally well both in the large and in the small. So, I think there is no contraddiction between large and small, in theory. But in practice there is, so I use Zope at work and Quixote at home ;) Michele Simionato -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: (PHP or Python) Developing something like www.tribe.net
> CherryPy and Quixote are for programming in the small May I ask why you say that ? Just because a framework is light and easy doesn't mean it doesn't scale well ... > I have not idea how they scale in the large. Well, I do :-) Among many other sites, CherryPy powers the BackOffice system of a big cinema chain in the UK. The web app gets hammered all day long by hundreds of users whose work is completely dependent on this web app. It has 500 different web forms (everything is data driven) and the code is about 30K lines of python/cherrypy code (if the code wasn't data-driven it would be a *lot* more ...). If it gets accepted, there will be a talk about this system at EuroPython ... Remi. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: (PHP or Python) Developing something like www.tribe.net
Ok I get your point. Well actually my application is small in the begining, but then may be will a large one when we want to add more features. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: (PHP or Python) Developing something like www.tribe.net
Mir Nazim: > Can you please brief me a bit about your decision to CherryPy Decision? I made no decision about CherryPy, I am actually a Quixote user. I evalued CherryPy six months ago and I did not like it, since they were using custom classes and a strange compilation procedure. However, from the presentation I saw at the ACCU conference, it looks like now CherryPy is much more pythonic than before (use the definition you like for pythonic). If I was shopping for a web framework today, I would certainly consider CherryPy. CherryPy and Quixote are in the same league, Zope and Twisted and PEAK are in an enterely different league. They are meant for programming in the large and do not scale well for small size applications. CherryPy and Quixote are for programming in the small, I have not idea how they scale in the large. Is your application going to be large (many developers, hundred of components, hundreds of thousand of lines of code) or small? Michele Simionato -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: (PHP or Python) Developing something like www.tribe.net
Can you please brief me a bit about your decision to CherryPy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: (PHP or Python) Developing something like www.tribe.net
I would also look at CherryPy, the new 2.0 version seems pretty interesting (I have not tried it, but I have seen a short presentation at the ACCU conference, and it looks really trivial to use). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: (PHP or Python) Developing something like www.tribe.net
Thanks fro ur advice. I was also thinking to look into quixote. but wanted a second opinion. thanks again. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: (PHP or Python) Developing something like www.tribe.net
Mir Nazim: > IMHO Zope3/Quixote seem to be the obvious choice here. > Though > functionality is not available on them but i think time > spent now will > be gained by gains in better design and maintainable code base. Well, you are comparing two frameworks that are just completely different. I suggest you to start evaluating Quixote first, since it is much simpler to grasp, and you can decide in a couple of days if it is the platform you want to program in or not. Zope 3 is a somewhat risky platform (i.e. you cannot leverage on the existing Zope 2 applications and not many developers are familiar with Zope 3 yet). Quixote too has a small number of developers, but at least it is easy and you don't need much help to work with it. Michele Simionato Michele Simionato -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: (PHP or Python) Developing something like www.tribe.net
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mir Nazim wrote: > I agree Zope2/Plone are really mature. But I think you missed my point. > It is not neccessary that I may be using all the functionality of Plone > etc. More over zope3 seems to have got a few great features like better > support for building filesystem based products, easier learning curve > etc. I played around with Plone a couple of years ago, and it was rather slow. It seemed to have a very solid design and a lot of intelligence put into it, but I couldn't use it in any productions because I just couldn't squeeze enough juice out of it, and also, for some reason I needed to restart the entire Zope process when I made even small changes to templates/skins. Can anyone who's worked with Plone recently comment as to whether these issues have been improved since then? I notice that Plone has been popping up quite a bit lately, and they don't seem unreasonably slow to me. (CPUs have of course exploded in speed in the past few years.) -- .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:. "talking about music is like dancing about architecture." -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: (PHP or Python) Developing something like www.tribe.net
I agree Zope2/Plone are really mature. But I think you missed my point. It is not neccessary that I may be using all the functionality of Plone etc. More over zope3 seems to have got a few great features like better support for building filesystem based products, easier learning curve etc. Please take it in the light of what I want to do. Then may be someone among c.l.py people may be able to suggest a way out. PS: I have pointed out the problem to my employer but I want to present a solution to it as well. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: (PHP or Python) Developing something like www.tribe.net
Don't write off Zope2/Plone too quickly. Zope is making many of the extensions/features in Zope3 available in Zope2 (V2.8+). As with any LARGE application, Zope2 is much more mature than the newer Zope3. It will also be extremely difficult to find programmers/consultants with any Zope3 experience. Plone's CMF is going to be very hard to beat. -Larry Bates Mir Nazim wrote: > Hi there. > > I am about to undertake a project. My employer wants it to be developed > in PHP. While I was thinking that Python will be better for this job. > > The project will implement the functionality similar to Yahoo360 > (http://www.360.yahoo.com), http://www.Tribe.net, Orkut etc. > > 1) There will be a groups like functionality like google groups. > 2) Groups/personal blogs/albums/events/buddy lists etc. need to be > implemented. > 3) Most importantly it needs to be implemented like platform. that is > it has to expose API or web services so that application implemented on > it can talk to each other and other applications can talk to it. > > My employer wants to go with PHP because almost all the functionality > is available with a Drupal CMS for PHP. But it is important to note > that for an application, rather a platform, which is intended to be > used for a long time, time to implement should not be the major > criteria above good design and maintainability(in which python scores > highest). > > IMHO Zope3/Quixote seem to be the obvious choice here. Though > functionality is not available on them but i think time spent now will > be gained by gains in better design and maintainable code base. > > Now I want this wonderful c.l.py community to pour in their suggestions > on what would be better alternatives. Also may we try various > combinations of frameworks like Zope3 for components, Twisted2.0 for > network functionality etc. > > PS: I am leaving out Zope2.x and Twisted1.x as a lot has changed in > newer versions and I don't want to be hanged when Zope3 becomes > official. > > Thanks > > --- > Mir Nazim > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
(PHP or Python) Developing something like www.tribe.net
Hi there. I am about to undertake a project. My employer wants it to be developed in PHP. While I was thinking that Python will be better for this job. The project will implement the functionality similar to Yahoo360 (http://www.360.yahoo.com), http://www.Tribe.net, Orkut etc. 1) There will be a groups like functionality like google groups. 2) Groups/personal blogs/albums/events/buddy lists etc. need to be implemented. 3) Most importantly it needs to be implemented like platform. that is it has to expose API or web services so that application implemented on it can talk to each other and other applications can talk to it. My employer wants to go with PHP because almost all the functionality is available with a Drupal CMS for PHP. But it is important to note that for an application, rather a platform, which is intended to be used for a long time, time to implement should not be the major criteria above good design and maintainability(in which python scores highest). IMHO Zope3/Quixote seem to be the obvious choice here. Though functionality is not available on them but i think time spent now will be gained by gains in better design and maintainable code base. Now I want this wonderful c.l.py community to pour in their suggestions on what would be better alternatives. Also may we try various combinations of frameworks like Zope3 for components, Twisted2.0 for network functionality etc. PS: I am leaving out Zope2.x and Twisted1.x as a lot has changed in newer versions and I don't want to be hanged when Zope3 becomes official. Thanks --- Mir Nazim -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
