Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do

[Paul Rudin]

Tim Johnson  writes:

> * Antonio Caminero Garcia  [170102 20:56]:
>> Guys really thank you for your answers. Basically now I am more
>> emphasizing in learning in depth a tool and get stick to it so I
>> can get a fast workflow. Eventually I will learn Vim and its
>> python developing setup, I know people who have been programming
>> using Vim for almost 20 years and they did not need to change
>> editor (that is really awesome).
>
>  Bye the way, one thing I like about the GUI based vim is that it
>  supports tabs, where emacs does not.

M-x package-install tabbar

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Wednesday 04 January 2017 12:10, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> On 03Jan2017 12:57, Steve D'Aprano  wrote:
>>I dislike the Unix-style Vim/Emacs text editors, I prefer a traditional
>>GUI-based editor. So my "IDE" is:
>>- Firefox, for doing searches and looking up documentation;
>>- an GUI programmer's editor, preferably one with a tab-based
>>  interface, such as geany or kate;
>>- a tab-based terminal.
>
> "traditional GUI-based editor"
>
> For those of us who spent a lot of our earlier time on terminals (actual
> physical terminals) we consider GUIs "new fangled".
>
> Just narking,
> Cameron Simpson 


Heh, GUI editors have been around since at least 1984, if not older, which 
makes them older than half the programmers in the world.

I'm not sure what an *un*traditional GUI-based editor would look like. Maybe 
one that used a ribbon-based interface, like MS Office? Or perhaps Leo?

http://leoeditor.com/

[My resolution for 2017: stop talking about Leo and actually download the damn 
thing and try it out.]



--
Steven
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing it everywhere."
- Jon Ronson

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do

[fpp]

> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Chris Clark 
> wrote:
>> I want an IDE that I can use at work and home, linux and dare I say
>> windows.
>> Sublime, had to remove it from my work PC as it is not licensed.
>> Atom, loved it until it slowed down.
>> VIM, ok the best if you know vi inside out.
>> Any JAVA based IDE, just slows up on work PC's due to all the
>> background stuff that corporates insist they run.
>> Why can not someone more clever than I fork DrPython and bring it up
>> to date.
>> Its is fast, looks great and just does the job ?

I'm suprised no one in this rich thread has even mentioned SciTE : 
http://www.scintilla.org/

Admittedly it's closer to an excellent code editor than a full-blown IDE. But 
it's very lightweight and fast, cross-platform, has superb syntax coloring and 
UTF8 handling, and is highly configurable through its configuration file(s) and 
embedded LUA scripting. It's also well maintained : version 1.0 came out in 
1999, and the latest (3.7.2) is just a week old...

Its IDE side consists mostly of hotkeys to run the interpreter or compiler for 
the language you're editing, with the file in the current tab.
A side pane shows the output (prints, exceptions, errors etc.) of the running 
script.
A nice touch is that it understands these error messages and makes them 
clickable, taking you to the tab/module/line where the error occurred. Also, it 
can save its current tabs (and their state) to a "session" file for later 
reloading, which is close to the idea of a "project" in most IDEs.
Oh, and it had multi-selection and multi-editing before most of the new IDEs 
out there :-)

Personally that's about all I need for my Python activities, but it can be 
customized much further than I have done : there are "hooks" for other external 
programs than compilers/interpreters, so you can also run a linter, debugger or 
cvs from the editor.

One word of warning: unlike most newer IDEs which tend to be shiny-shiny and 
ful of bells and whistles at first sight, out of the box SciTE is
*extremely* plain looking (you could even say drab, or ugly :-).
It is up to you to decide how it should look and what it should do or not, 
through the configuration file. Fortunately the documentation is very thorough, 
and there are a lot of examples lying around to be copy/pasted (like a dark 
theme, LUA scripts etc.).

Did I mention it's lightweight ? The archive is about 1.5 MB and it just needs 
unzipping, no installation. May be worth a look if you haven't tried it yet...
fp

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Dietmar Schwertberger]

On 06.01.2017 09:40, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:

So why not use the debugger interactively to develop
applications. As long as one sets the breakpoints in a meaningful way so you 
can trace your code in a very productive way. Is that what you mean by 
interactive environment?
Well, not exactly. Maybe have a look at the video "Interactive Debug 
Probe" at

https://wingware.com/wingide/debugger

Regards,

Dietmar

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Antonio Caminero Garcia]

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 1:10:04 PM UTC-8, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote:
> On 04.01.2017 07:54, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
> > Unfortunately most of the time I am still using print and input functions. 
> > I know that sucks, I did not use the pdb module, I guess that IDE debuggers 
> > leverage such module.
> pdb is actually quite useful. On my Windows PCs I can invoke python on 
> any .py file with the -i command line switch by right clicking in the 
> Explorer and selecting "Debug". Now when the script crashes, I can 
> inspect variables without launching a full-scale IDE or starting the 
> script from the command line. For such quick fixes I have also a context 
> menu entry "Edit" for editing with Pythonwin, which is still quite OK as 
> editor and has no licensing restrictions or installation requirements. 
> This is a nice option when you deploy your installation to many PCs over 
> the network.
I am on MacOS but interesting way of debugging, I will take the idea.
> 
> For the print functions vs. debugger:
> The most useful application for a debugger like Wing is not for 
> bug-fixing, but to set a break point and then interactively develop on 
> the debugger console and with the IDE editor's autocompletion using 
> introspection on the live objects. This is very helpful for hardware 
> interfacing, network protocols or GUI programs. It really boosted my 
> productivity in a way I could not believe before. This is something most 
> people forget when they evaluate programming languages. It's not the 
> language or syntax that counts, but the overall environment. Probably 
> the only other really interactive language and environment is Forth.
> 
This is exactly part of the capabilities that I am looking for. I loved you 
brought that up. When I think of an ideal IDE (besides the desirable features 
that I already mentioned previously) as a coworker who is telling me the 
values,types and ids that the objects are getting as you are setting 
breakpoints. So why not use the debugger interactively to develop
applications. As long as one sets the breakpoints in a meaningful way so you 
can trace your code in a very productive way. Is that what you mean by 
interactive environment?

> > If it happens to be Arduino I normally use a sublime plugin called Stino
> > https://github.com/Robot-Will/Stino
> > (1337 people starred that cool number :D)
> Well, it is CodeWarrior which was quite famous at the time of the 68k Macs.
> The company was bought by Motorola and the IDE is still around for 
> Freescale/NXP/Qualcomm microcontrollers like the HCS08 8 bit series. 
> Around ten years ago the original CodeWarrior IDE was migrated to 
> something Eclipse based.
> When I last evaluated HCS08 vs. Arduino, the HCS08 won due to the better 
> debug interface and native USB support. HCS08 is still quite cool, but 
> when it comes to documentation, learning curve, tools etc. the Arduinos 
> win
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dietmar
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Antonio Caminero Garcia]

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 9:51:17 AM UTC-8, ArnoB wrote:
> On 02-01-17 12:38, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
> > Hello, I am having a hard time deciding what IDE or IDE-like code editor 
> > should I use. This can be overwhelming.
> >
> > So far, I have used Vim, Sublime, Atom, Eclipse with PyDev, Pycharm, 
> > IntelliJ with Python plugin.
> >
> > The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ, 
> > Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that 
> > unwarranted resources consumption and the unnecessary icons. I want my IDE 
> > to be minimalistic but powerful. My screen should be mostly “made of code” 
> > as usually happens in Vim, Sublime or Atom. However, Pycharm is really cool 
> > and python oriented.
> >
> > The problem with Vim is the learning curve, so I know the very basic stuff, 
> > but obviously not enough for coding and I do not have time to learn it, it 
> > is a pity because there are awesome plugins that turns Vim into a 
> > lightweight powerful IDE-like. So now it is not an option but I will 
> > reconsider it in the future, learning little by little. Also, I am not very 
> > fan GUI guy if the task can be accomplished through the terminal. However, 
> > I don’t understand why people underrate GUIs, that said I normally use 
> > shortcuts for the most frequent tasks and when I have to do something that 
> > is not that frequent then I do it with the mouse, for the latter case in 
> > vim you would need to look for that specific command every time.
> >
> > Sublime is my current and preferred code editor. I installed Anaconda, Git 
> > integration and a couple of additional plugins that make sublime very 
> > powerful. Also, what I like about sublime compared to the full featured 
> > IDEs, besides the minimalism, is how you can perform code navigation back 
> > and forth so fast, I mean this is something that you can also do with the 
> > others but for some subjective reason I specifically love how sublime does 
> > it. The code completion in sublime I do not find it very intelligence, the 
> > SublimeCodeIntel is better than the one that Anaconda uses but the 
> > completions are not as verbose as in the IDEs.
> >
> > Now, I am thinking about giving a try to Visual Studio Code Edition (take a 
> > look, it sounds good 
> > https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=donjayamanne.python). I 
> > need an editor for professional software development. What would you 
> > recommend to me?
> 
> Hi Antonio,
> 
> Just an extra one in case you'll ever want to create
> a nice GUI, then there's also QT Creator:
> https://wiki.qt.io/QtCreator_and_PySide
> 
> A very simple but powerful interface a la XCode...
> 
> It integrates nicely with PySide:
> https://wiki.qt.io/QtCreator_and_PySide
> 
> gr
> Arno

Thanks!
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Antonio Caminero Garcia]

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 12:32:19 PM UTC-8, fpp wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Chris Clark 
> > wrote: 
> >> I want an IDE that I can use at work and home, linux and dare I say
> >> windows.
> >> Sublime, had to remove it from my work PC as it is not licensed.
> >> Atom, loved it until it slowed down.
> >> VIM, ok the best if you know vi inside out.
> >> Any JAVA based IDE, just slows up on work PC's due to all the
> >> background stuff that corporates insist they run.
> >> Why can not someone more clever than I fork DrPython and bring it up
> >> to date.
> >> Its is fast, looks great and just does the job ?
> 
> I'm suprised no one in this rich thread has even mentioned SciTE :
> http://www.scintilla.org/
> 
> Admittedly it's closer to an excellent code editor than a full-blown IDE.
> But it's very lightweight and fast, cross-platform, has superb syntax 
> coloring and UTF8 handling, and is highly configurable through its 
> configuration file(s) and embedded LUA scripting.
> It's also well maintained : version 1.0 came out in 1999, and the latest 
> (3.7.2) is just a week old...
> 
> Its IDE side consists mostly of hotkeys to run the interpreter or 
> compiler for the language you're editing, with the file in the current 
> tab.
> A side pane shows the output (prints, exceptions, errors etc.) of the 
> running script.
> A nice touch is that it understands these error messages and makes them 
> clickable, taking you to the tab/module/line where the error occurred.
> Also, it can save its current tabs (and their state) to a "session" file 
> for later reloading, which is close to the idea of a "project" in most 
> IDEs.
> Oh, and it had multi-selection and multi-editing before most of the new 
> IDEs out there :-)
> 
> Personally that's about all I need for my Python activities, but it can 
> be customized much further than I have done : there are "hooks" for other 
> external programs than compilers/interpreters, so you can also run a 
> linter, debugger or cvs from the editor.
> 
> One word of warning: unlike most newer IDEs which tend to be shiny-shiny 
> and ful of bells and whistles at first sight, out of the box SciTE is 
> *extremely* plain looking (you could even say drab, or ugly :-).
> It is up to you to decide how it should look and what it should do or 
> not, through the configuration file.
> Fortunately the documentation is very thorough, and there are a lot of 
> examples lying around to be copy/pasted (like a dark theme, LUA scripts 
> etc.).
> 
> Did I mention it's lightweight ? The archive is about 1.5 MB and it just 
> needs unzipping, no installation. May be worth a look if you haven't 
> tried it yet...
> fp

Interesting thanks for the link. There are a huge diversity when it comes to 
IDEs/editors. Now I have more than enough options. 
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do

[William Ray Wing]

> On Jan 4, 2017, at 3:44 PM, Dietmar Schwertberger 
wrote:
>
> On 04.01.2017 15:41, William Ray Wing wrote:
>> I use Wing, and I think you will like it.  It *is* pythonic, and for what it
is worth, offers remote debugging as one of its more recently added features.
> Obviously, you had no other choice than using Wing ;-)

I should have said something.  First, and to the best of my knowledge, I have 
no relationship with the Wing developers other than being a satisfied customer. 
Second, seven years ago, when I was reading IDE reviews and testing the more 
highly rated products, Wing just bubbled up to the top of the sieve I was using 
(features, ease of use, and the way it fit my idea of â £naturalâ Ø, pretty 
much everyone's standard list).

>
> The remote debugging has been around for some years. I have been using it
quite often to debug on my Raspberry Pi, Nokia N900 and Jolla Phone, all 
running some Linux system. It works well. It is or was a bit complicated to set 
up. I think this has been improved with Wing 6, but I did not need it in the 
last weeks, so I don't know.

They claim it has been, but like you, I havenâ Öt had need to test it on the 
new release.

Thanks,
Bill

>
> Regards,
>
> Dietmar
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do

[William Ray Wing]

> On Jan 4, 2017, at 1:54 AM, Antonio Caminero Garcia 
wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 4:12:34 PM UTC-8, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote:
>> On 02.01.2017 12:38, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
>> You did not try Wing IDE? It looks less like a spacecraft. Maybe you
>> like it.
>> Maybe the difference is that Wing is from Python people while the ones
>> you listed are from Java people.
>
> That sounds interesting. By the look of it I think I am going to give it a
try.
>
>

[byte]


> I want editor with those IDE capabilities and git integration, with
optionally  cool stuff as for example remote debugging.

I use Wing, and I think you will like it.  It *is* pythonic, and for what it is 
worth, offers remote debugging as one of its more recently added features.

-Bill

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Wednesday 04 January 2017 12:10, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> On 03Jan2017 12:57, Steve D'Aprano  wrote:
>>I dislike the Unix-style Vim/Emacs text editors, I prefer a traditional
>>GUI-based editor. So my "IDE" is:
>>- Firefox, for doing searches and looking up documentation;
>>- an GUI programmer's editor, preferably one with a tab-based
>>  interface, such as geany or kate;
>>- a tab-based terminal.
>
> "traditional GUI-based editor"
>
> For those of us who spent a lot of our earlier time on terminals (actual
> physical terminals) we consider GUIs "new fangled".
>
> Just narking,
> Cameron Simpson 


Heh, GUI editors have been around since at least 1984, if not older, which 
makes them older than half the programmers in the world.

I'm not sure what an *un*traditional GUI-based editor would look like. Maybe 
one that used a ribbon-based interface, like MS Office? Or perhaps Leo?

http://leoeditor.com/

[My resolution for 2017: stop talking about Leo and actually download the damn 
thing and try it out.]



--
Steven
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing it everywhere." 
- Jon Ronson

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do

[Paul Rudin]

Tim Johnson  writes:

> * Antonio Caminero Garcia  [170102 20:56]:
>> Guys really thank you for your answers. Basically now I am more
>> emphasizing in learning in depth a tool and get stick to it so I
>> can get a fast workflow. Eventually I will learn Vim and its
>> python developing setup, I know people who have been programming
>> using Vim for almost 20 years and they did not need to change
>> editor (that is really awesome).
>
>  Bye the way, one thing I like about the GUI based vim is that it
>  supports tabs, where emacs does not.

M-x package-install tabbar

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[fpp]

> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Chris Clark 
> wrote: 
>> I want an IDE that I can use at work and home, linux and dare I say
>> windows.
>> Sublime, had to remove it from my work PC as it is not licensed.
>> Atom, loved it until it slowed down.
>> VIM, ok the best if you know vi inside out.
>> Any JAVA based IDE, just slows up on work PC's due to all the
>> background stuff that corporates insist they run.
>> Why can not someone more clever than I fork DrPython and bring it up
>> to date.
>> Its is fast, looks great and just does the job ?

I'm suprised no one in this rich thread has even mentioned SciTE :
http://www.scintilla.org/

Admittedly it's closer to an excellent code editor than a full-blown IDE.
But it's very lightweight and fast, cross-platform, has superb syntax 
coloring and UTF8 handling, and is highly configurable through its 
configuration file(s) and embedded LUA scripting.
It's also well maintained : version 1.0 came out in 1999, and the latest 
(3.7.2) is just a week old...

Its IDE side consists mostly of hotkeys to run the interpreter or 
compiler for the language you're editing, with the file in the current 
tab.
A side pane shows the output (prints, exceptions, errors etc.) of the 
running script.
A nice touch is that it understands these error messages and makes them 
clickable, taking you to the tab/module/line where the error occurred.
Also, it can save its current tabs (and their state) to a "session" file 
for later reloading, which is close to the idea of a "project" in most 
IDEs.
Oh, and it had multi-selection and multi-editing before most of the new 
IDEs out there :-)

Personally that's about all I need for my Python activities, but it can 
be customized much further than I have done : there are "hooks" for other 
external programs than compilers/interpreters, so you can also run a 
linter, debugger or cvs from the editor.

One word of warning: unlike most newer IDEs which tend to be shiny-shiny 
and ful of bells and whistles at first sight, out of the box SciTE is 
*extremely* plain looking (you could even say drab, or ugly :-).
It is up to you to decide how it should look and what it should do or 
not, through the configuration file.
Fortunately the documentation is very thorough, and there are a lot of 
examples lying around to be copy/pasted (like a dark theme, LUA scripts 
etc.).

Did I mention it's lightweight ? The archive is about 1.5 MB and it just 
needs unzipping, no installation. May be worth a look if you haven't 
tried it yet...
fp
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Marko Rauhamaa]

Chris Clark :

> I want an IDE that I can use at work and home, linux and dare I say
> windows.

I use emacs for all of my typing, including Python programming (and
making this post).


Marko
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Nathan Ernst]

Have you looked into Visual Studio Code (https://code.visualstudio.com/)?
I've not used it extensively, and only on Windows, but it's an open source
IDE originated by MS that purportedly works on Windows, Linux & OS X.

It does have pretty decent Python support (haven't tried debugging, but
syntax highlighting works well).

There's also a really good vim extension available.

I tend to prefer vim (or vim extensions) when I can because even though I
probably know less than 10% of vim's capabilities, I'm more productive
using it. I also use the VsVim extension in full proper Visual Studio.

Regards,
Nate

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Chris Clark <chris.p.cl...@ba.com> wrote:

> I want an IDE that I can use at work and home, linux and dare I say
> windows.
>
> Sublime, had to remove it from my work PC as it is not licensed.
>
> Atom, loved it until it slowed down.
>
> VIM, ok the best if you know vi inside out.
>
> Any JAVA based IDE, just slows up on work PC's due to all the background
> stuff that corporates insist they run.
>
> Why can not someone more clever than I fork DrPython and bring it up to
> date.
>
> Its is fast, looks great and just does the job ?
>
> Its wx, no idea if that is good or bad but it just works.
>
>
> 
> From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+chris.p.clark=ba@python.org>
> on behalf of ArnoB <pyt...@rgbaz.eu>
> Sent: 05 January 2017 17:32:33
> To: python-list@python.org
> Subject: Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation?
> I do not know what to choose.
>
>
>
> On 02-01-17 12:38, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
> > Hello, I am having a hard time deciding what IDE or IDE-like code editor
> should I use. This can be overwhelming.
> >
> > So far, I have used Vim, Sublime, Atom, Eclipse with PyDev, Pycharm,
> IntelliJ with Python plugin.
> >
> > The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse,
> IntelliJ, Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that
> unwarranted resources consumption and the unnecessary icons. I want my IDE
> to be minimalistic but powerful. My screen should be mostly “made of code”
> as usually happens in Vim, Sublime or Atom. However, Pycharm is really cool
> and python oriented.
> >
> > The problem with Vim is the learning curve, so I know the very basic
> stuff, but obviously not enough for coding and I do not have time to learn
> it, it is a pity because there are awesome plugins that turns Vim into a
> lightweight powerful IDE-like. So now it is not an option but I will
> reconsider it in the future, learning little by little. Also, I am not very
> fan GUI guy if the task can be accomplished through the terminal. However,
> I don’t understand why people underrate GUIs, that said I normally use
> shortcuts for the most frequent tasks and when I have to do something that
> is not that frequent then I do it with the mouse, for the latter case in
> vim you would need to look for that specific command every time.
> >
> > Sublime is my current and preferred code editor. I installed Anaconda,
> Git integration and a couple of additional plugins that make sublime very
> powerful. Also, what I like about sublime compared to the full featured
> IDEs, besides the minimalism, is how you can perform code navigation back
> and forth so fast, I mean this is something that you can also do with the
> others but for some subjective reason I specifically love how sublime does
> it. The code completion in sublime I do not find it very intelligence, the
> SublimeCodeIntel is better than the one that Anaconda uses but the
> completions are not as verbose as in the IDEs.
> >
> > Now, I am thinking about giving a try to Visual Studio Code Edition
> (take a look, it sounds good https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?
> itemName=donjayamanne.python). I need an editor for professional software
> development. What would you recommend to me?
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> Just an extra one in case you'll ever want to create
> a nice GUI, then there's also QT Creator:
> https://wiki.qt.io/QtCreator_and_PySide
>
> A very simple but powerful interface a la XCode...
>
> It integrates nicely with PySide:
> https://wiki.qt.io/QtCreator_and_PySide
>
> gr
> Arno
>
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Chris Clark]

I want an IDE that I can use at work and home, linux and dare I say windows.

Sublime, had to remove it from my work PC as it is not licensed.

Atom, loved it until it slowed down.

VIM, ok the best if you know vi inside out.

Any JAVA based IDE, just slows up on work PC's due to all the background stuff 
that corporates insist they run.

Why can not someone more clever than I fork DrPython and bring it up to date.

Its is fast, looks great and just does the job ?

Its wx, no idea if that is good or bad but it just works.



From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+chris.p.clark=ba@python.org> on 
behalf of ArnoB <pyt...@rgbaz.eu>
Sent: 05 January 2017 17:32:33
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do 
not know what to choose.



On 02-01-17 12:38, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
> Hello, I am having a hard time deciding what IDE or IDE-like code editor 
> should I use. This can be overwhelming.
>
> So far, I have used Vim, Sublime, Atom, Eclipse with PyDev, Pycharm, IntelliJ 
> with Python plugin.
>
> The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ, 
> Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that unwarranted 
> resources consumption and the unnecessary icons. I want my IDE to be 
> minimalistic but powerful. My screen should be mostly “made of code” as 
> usually happens in Vim, Sublime or Atom. However, Pycharm is really cool and 
> python oriented.
>
> The problem with Vim is the learning curve, so I know the very basic stuff, 
> but obviously not enough for coding and I do not have time to learn it, it is 
> a pity because there are awesome plugins that turns Vim into a lightweight 
> powerful IDE-like. So now it is not an option but I will reconsider it in the 
> future, learning little by little. Also, I am not very fan GUI guy if the 
> task can be accomplished through the terminal. However, I don’t understand 
> why people underrate GUIs, that said I normally use shortcuts for the most 
> frequent tasks and when I have to do something that is not that frequent then 
> I do it with the mouse, for the latter case in vim you would need to look for 
> that specific command every time.
>
> Sublime is my current and preferred code editor. I installed Anaconda, Git 
> integration and a couple of additional plugins that make sublime very 
> powerful. Also, what I like about sublime compared to the full featured IDEs, 
> besides the minimalism, is how you can perform code navigation back and forth 
> so fast, I mean this is something that you can also do with the others but 
> for some subjective reason I specifically love how sublime does it. The code 
> completion in sublime I do not find it very intelligence, the 
> SublimeCodeIntel is better than the one that Anaconda uses but the 
> completions are not as verbose as in the IDEs.
>
> Now, I am thinking about giving a try to Visual Studio Code Edition (take a 
> look, it sounds good 
> https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=donjayamanne.python). I 
> need an editor for professional software development. What would you 
> recommend to me?

Hi Antonio,

Just an extra one in case you'll ever want to create
a nice GUI, then there's also QT Creator:
https://wiki.qt.io/QtCreator_and_PySide

A very simple but powerful interface a la XCode...

It integrates nicely with PySide:
https://wiki.qt.io/QtCreator_and_PySide

gr
Arno

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[ArnoB]

On 02-01-17 12:38, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:

Hello, I am having a hard time deciding what IDE or IDE-like code editor should 
I use. This can be overwhelming.

So far, I have used Vim, Sublime, Atom, Eclipse with PyDev, Pycharm, IntelliJ 
with Python plugin.

The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ, 
Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that unwarranted 
resources consumption and the unnecessary icons. I want my IDE to be 
minimalistic but powerful. My screen should be mostly “made of code” as usually 
happens in Vim, Sublime or Atom. However, Pycharm is really cool and python 
oriented.

The problem with Vim is the learning curve, so I know the very basic stuff, but 
obviously not enough for coding and I do not have time to learn it, it is a 
pity because there are awesome plugins that turns Vim into a lightweight 
powerful IDE-like. So now it is not an option but I will reconsider it in the 
future, learning little by little. Also, I am not very fan GUI guy if the task 
can be accomplished through the terminal. However, I don’t understand why 
people underrate GUIs, that said I normally use shortcuts for the most frequent 
tasks and when I have to do something that is not that frequent then I do it 
with the mouse, for the latter case in vim you would need to look for that 
specific command every time.

Sublime is my current and preferred code editor. I installed Anaconda, Git 
integration and a couple of additional plugins that make sublime very powerful. 
Also, what I like about sublime compared to the full featured IDEs, besides the 
minimalism, is how you can perform code navigation back and forth so fast, I 
mean this is something that you can also do with the others but for some 
subjective reason I specifically love how sublime does it. The code completion 
in sublime I do not find it very intelligence, the SublimeCodeIntel is better 
than the one that Anaconda uses but the completions are not as verbose as in 
the IDEs.

Now, I am thinking about giving a try to Visual Studio Code Edition (take a 
look, it sounds good 
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=donjayamanne.python). I 
need an editor for professional software development. What would you recommend 
to me?


Hi Antonio,

Just an extra one in case you'll ever want to create
a nice GUI, then there's also QT Creator:
https://wiki.qt.io/QtCreator_and_PySide

A very simple but powerful interface a la XCode...

It integrates nicely with PySide:
https://wiki.qt.io/QtCreator_and_PySide

gr
Arno

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[William Ray Wing]

> On Jan 4, 2017, at 3:44 PM, Dietmar Schwertberger  
> wrote:
> 
> On 04.01.2017 15:41, William Ray Wing wrote:
>> I use Wing, and I think you will like it.  It *is* pythonic, and for what it 
>> is worth, offers remote debugging as one of its more recently added features.
> Obviously, you had no other choice than using Wing ;-)

I should have said something.  First, and to the best of my knowledge, I have 
no relationship with the Wing developers other than being a satisfied customer. 
Second, seven years ago, when I was reading IDE reviews and testing the more 
highly rated products, Wing just bubbled up to the top of the sieve I was using 
(features, ease of use, and the way it fit my idea of “natural”, pretty much 
everyone's standard list).

> 
> The remote debugging has been around for some years. I have been using it 
> quite often to debug on my Raspberry Pi, Nokia N900 and Jolla Phone, all 
> running some Linux system. It works well. It is or was a bit complicated to 
> set up. I think this has been improved with Wing 6, but I did not need it in 
> the last weeks, so I don't know.

They claim it has been, but like you, I haven’t had need to test it on the new 
release.

Thanks,
Bill

> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dietmar
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Hans-Peter Jansen]

On Montag, 2. Januar 2017 03:38:53 Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
> Hello, I am having a hard time deciding what IDE or IDE-like code editor
> should I use. This can be overwhelming.
> 
> So far, I have used Vim, Sublime, Atom, Eclipse with PyDev, Pycharm,
> IntelliJ with Python plugin.

Well, since nobody mentioned it, yet: eric is doing quite nice here.
With on the fly error checking, jedi and qscintilla calltips and 
autocompletion, git integration (using a plugin), graphical debugger, it's 
grown to a capable IDE over the years.

Given, it's a fully open source, PyQt based project, it also shows the powers 
of Python3 and PyQt.

Pete
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Dietmar Schwertberger]

On 04.01.2017 15:41, William Ray Wing wrote:

I use Wing, and I think you will like it.  It *is* pythonic, and for what it is 
worth, offers remote debugging as one of its more recently added features.

Obviously, you had no other choice than using Wing ;-)

The remote debugging has been around for some years. I have been using 
it quite often to debug on my Raspberry Pi, Nokia N900 and Jolla Phone, 
all running some Linux system. It works well. It is or was a bit 
complicated to set up. I think this has been improved with Wing 6, but I 
did not need it in the last weeks, so I don't know.


Regards,

Dietmar
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Dietmar Schwertberger]

On 04.01.2017 07:54, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:

Unfortunately most of the time I am still using print and input functions. I 
know that sucks, I did not use the pdb module, I guess that IDE debuggers 
leverage such module.
pdb is actually quite useful. On my Windows PCs I can invoke python on 
any .py file with the -i command line switch by right clicking in the 
Explorer and selecting "Debug". Now when the script crashes, I can 
inspect variables without launching a full-scale IDE or starting the 
script from the command line. For such quick fixes I have also a context 
menu entry "Edit" for editing with Pythonwin, which is still quite OK as 
editor and has no licensing restrictions or installation requirements. 
This is a nice option when you deploy your installation to many PCs over 
the network.


For the print functions vs. debugger:
The most useful application for a debugger like Wing is not for 
bug-fixing, but to set a break point and then interactively develop on 
the debugger console and with the IDE editor's autocompletion using 
introspection on the live objects. This is very helpful for hardware 
interfacing, network protocols or GUI programs. It really boosted my 
productivity in a way I could not believe before. This is something most 
people forget when they evaluate programming languages. It's not the 
language or syntax that counts, but the overall environment. Probably 
the only other really interactive language and environment is Forth.



If it happens to be Arduino I normally use a sublime plugin called Stino
https://github.com/Robot-Will/Stino
(1337 people starred that cool number :D)

Well, it is CodeWarrior which was quite famous at the time of the 68k Macs.
The company was bought by Motorola and the IDE is still around for 
Freescale/NXP/Qualcomm microcontrollers like the HCS08 8 bit series. 
Around ten years ago the original CodeWarrior IDE was migrated to 
something Eclipse based.
When I last evaluated HCS08 vs. Arduino, the HCS08 won due to the better 
debug interface and native USB support. HCS08 is still quite cool, but 
when it comes to documentation, learning curve, tools etc. the Arduinos 
win



Regards,

Dietmar

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Tim Johnson]

* Paul Rudin  [170103 23:17]:
> Tim Johnson  writes:
> 
> > * Antonio Caminero Garcia  [170102 20:56]:
> >> Guys really thank you for your answers. Basically now I am more
> >> emphasizing in learning in depth a tool and get stick to it so I
> >> can get a fast workflow. Eventually I will learn Vim and its
> >> python developing setup, I know people who have been programming
> >> using Vim for almost 20 years and they did not need to change
> >> editor (that is really awesome). 
> >
> >  Bye the way, one thing I like about the GUI based vim is that it
> >  supports tabs, where emacs does not.
> 
> M-x package-install tabbar
  :) Thank you. list-packages is my friend ...
-- 
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http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[William Ray Wing]

> On Jan 4, 2017, at 1:54 AM, Antonio Caminero Garcia  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 4:12:34 PM UTC-8, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote:
>> On 02.01.2017 12:38, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
>> You did not try Wing IDE? It looks less like a spacecraft. Maybe you 
>> like it.
>> Maybe the difference is that Wing is from Python people while the ones 
>> you listed are from Java people.
> 
> That sounds interesting. By the look of it I think I am going to give it a 
> try.
> 
> 

[byte]


> I want editor with those IDE capabilities and git integration, with 
> optionally  cool stuff as for example remote debugging. 

I use Wing, and I think you will like it.  It *is* pythonic, and for what it is 
worth, offers remote debugging as one of its more recently added features.

-Bill


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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Chris Clark]

Tried every python ide going, they either grind to a halt or just look messy.
Best one I ever used and stick with is drpython, years old, probably not 
maintained but does everything I want at a blistering speed and just looks 
perfect.





On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 11:41 AM +, "Antonio Caminero Garcia" 
> wrote:


Hello, I am having a hard time deciding what IDE or IDE-like code editor should 
I use. This can be overwhelming.

So far, I have used Vim, Sublime, Atom, Eclipse with PyDev, Pycharm, IntelliJ 
with Python plugin.

The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ, 
Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that unwarranted 
resources consumption and the unnecessary icons. I want my IDE to be 
minimalistic but powerful. My screen should be mostly “made of code” as usually 
happens in Vim, Sublime or Atom. However, Pycharm is really cool and python 
oriented.

The problem with Vim is the learning curve, so I know the very basic stuff, but 
obviously not enough for coding and I do not have time to learn it, it is a 
pity because there are awesome plugins that turns Vim into a lightweight 
powerful IDE-like. So now it is not an option but I will reconsider it in the 
future, learning little by little. Also, I am not very fan GUI guy if the task 
can be accomplished through the terminal. However, I don’t understand why 
people underrate GUIs, that said I normally use shortcuts for the most frequent 
tasks and when I have to do something that is not that frequent then I do it 
with the mouse, for the latter case in vim you would need to look for that 
specific command every time.

Sublime is my current and preferred code editor. I installed Anaconda, Git 
integration and a couple of additional plugins that make sublime very powerful. 
Also, what I like about sublime compared to the full featured IDEs, besides the 
minimalism, is how you can perform code navigation back and forth so fast, I 
mean this is something that you can also do with the others but for some 
subjective reason I specifically love how sublime does it. The code completion 
in sublime I do not find it very intelligence, the SublimeCodeIntel is better 
than the one that Anaconda uses but the completions are not as verbose as in 
the IDEs.

Now, I am thinking about giving a try to Visual Studio Code Edition (take a 
look, it sounds good 
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=donjayamanne.python). I 
need an editor for professional software development. What would you recommend 
to me?
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This message is private and confidential and may also be legally privileged. If 
you have received this message in error, please email it back to the sender and 
immediately permanently delete it from your computer system. Please do not 
read, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on it or any attachments. 
British Airways may monitor email traffic data and also the content of emails, 
where permitted by law, for the purposes of security and staff training and in 
order to prevent or detect unauthorised use of the British Airways email 
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of the recipient. British Airways Plc is a public limited company registered in 
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Paul Rudin]

Tim Johnson  writes:

> * Antonio Caminero Garcia  [170102 20:56]:
>> Guys really thank you for your answers. Basically now I am more
>> emphasizing in learning in depth a tool and get stick to it so I
>> can get a fast workflow. Eventually I will learn Vim and its
>> python developing setup, I know people who have been programming
>> using Vim for almost 20 years and they did not need to change
>> editor (that is really awesome). 
>
>  Bye the way, one thing I like about the GUI based vim is that it
>  supports tabs, where emacs does not.

M-x package-install tabbar




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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Antonio Caminero Garcia]

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 4:12:34 PM UTC-8, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote:
> On 02.01.2017 12:38, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
> You did not try Wing IDE? It looks less like a spacecraft. Maybe you 
> like it.
> Maybe the difference is that Wing is from Python people while the ones 
> you listed are from Java people.

That sounds interesting. By the look of it I think I am going to give it a try.

> For something completely different (microcontroller programming in C) I 
> just switched to a Eclipse derived IDE and I don't like it too much as 
> the tool does not focus on the problem scope.

If it happens to be Arduino I normally use a sublime plugin called Stino
https://github.com/Robot-Will/Stino 
(1337 people starred that cool number :D)

>  From your posts I'm not sure whether you want an editor or an IDE, 
> where for me the main difference is the debugger and code completion.

I want editor with those IDE capabilities and git integration, with optionally  
cool stuff as for example remote debugging. 

> I would not want to miss the IDE features any more, even though in my 
> first 15 years of Python I thought that a debugger is optional with 
> Python ...

Unfortunately most of the time I am still using print and input functions. I 
know that sucks, I did not use the pdb module, I guess that IDE debuggers 
leverage such module.

> Regards,
> 
> Dietmar

Thank you so much for your answer. 

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Rustom Mody]

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 5:42:34 AM UTC+5:30, Dietmar Schwertberger 
wrote:
> On 02.01.2017 12:38, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
> > The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ, 
> > Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that 
> > unwarranted resources consumption and the unnecessary icons.
> You did not try Wing IDE? It looks less like a spacecraft. Maybe you 
> like it.
> Maybe the difference is that Wing is from Python people while the ones 
> you listed are from Java people.
> For something completely different (microcontroller programming in C) I 
> just switched to a Eclipse derived IDE and I don't like it too much as 
> the tool does not focus on the problem scope.
> 
>  From your posts I'm not sure whether you want an editor or an IDE, 
> where for me the main difference is the debugger and code completion.
> I would not want to miss the IDE features any more, even though in my 
> first 15 years of Python I thought that a debugger is optional with 
> Python ...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dietmar

Im surprised no one's talked of idle (or Ive missed it?)
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Wednesday 04 January 2017 12:10, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> On 03Jan2017 12:57, Steve D'Aprano  wrote:
>>I dislike the Unix-style Vim/Emacs text editors, I prefer a traditional
>>GUI-based editor. So my "IDE" is:
>>- Firefox, for doing searches and looking up documentation;
>>- an GUI programmer's editor, preferably one with a tab-based
>>  interface, such as geany or kate;
>>- a tab-based terminal.
> 
> "traditional GUI-based editor"
> 
> For those of us who spent a lot of our earlier time on terminals (actual
> physical terminals) we consider GUIs "new fangled".
> 
> Just narking,
> Cameron Simpson 


Heh, GUI editors have been around since at least 1984, if not older, which 
makes them older than half the programmers in the world.

I'm not sure what an *un*traditional GUI-based editor would look like. Maybe 
one that used a ribbon-based interface, like MS Office? Or perhaps Leo?

http://leoeditor.com/

[My resolution for 2017: stop talking about Leo and actually download the damn 
thing and try it out.]



-- 
Steven
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing 
it everywhere." - Jon Ronson

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Cameron Simpson]

On 03Jan2017 12:57, Steve D'Aprano  wrote:

I dislike the Unix-style Vim/Emacs text editors, I prefer a traditional
GUI-based editor. So my "IDE" is:
- Firefox, for doing searches and looking up documentation;
- an GUI programmer's editor, preferably one with a tab-based
 interface, such as geany or kate;
- a tab-based terminal.


"traditional GUI-based editor"

For those of us who spent a lot of our earlier time on terminals (actual 
physical terminals) we consider GUIs "new fangled".


Just narking,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Dietmar Schwertberger]

On 02.01.2017 12:38, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:

The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ, 
Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that unwarranted 
resources consumption and the unnecessary icons.
You did not try Wing IDE? It looks less like a spacecraft. Maybe you 
like it.
Maybe the difference is that Wing is from Python people while the ones 
you listed are from Java people.
For something completely different (microcontroller programming in C) I 
just switched to a Eclipse derived IDE and I don't like it too much as 
the tool does not focus on the problem scope.


From your posts I'm not sure whether you want an editor or an IDE, 
where for me the main difference is the debugger and code completion.
I would not want to miss the IDE features any more, even though in my 
first 15 years of Python I thought that a debugger is optional with 
Python ...


Regards,

Dietmar

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Tim Johnson]

* Antonio Caminero Garcia  [170102 20:56]:
> Guys really thank you for your answers. Basically now I am more
> emphasizing in learning in depth a tool and get stick to it so I
> can get a fast workflow. Eventually I will learn Vim and its
> python developing setup, I know people who have been programming
> using Vim for almost 20 years and they did not need to change
> editor (that is really awesome). 

 Bye the way, one thing I like about the GUI based vim is that it
 supports tabs, where emacs does not.

 And check out the vim plugins for python

 Good Luck!
-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[smitty1e]

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 6:39:03 AM UTC-5, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
> Hello, I am having a hard time deciding what IDE or IDE-like code editor 
> should I use. This can be overwhelming.
> 
> So far, I have used Vim, Sublime, Atom, Eclipse with PyDev, Pycharm, IntelliJ 
> with Python plugin. 
> 
> The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ, 
> Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that unwarranted 
> resources consumption and the unnecessary icons. I want my IDE to be 
> minimalistic but powerful. My screen should be mostly “made of code” as 
> usually happens in Vim, Sublime or Atom. However, Pycharm is really cool and 
> python oriented.
> 
> The problem with Vim is the learning curve, so I know the very basic stuff, 
> but obviously not enough for coding and I do not have time to learn it, it is 
> a pity because there are awesome plugins that turns Vim into a lightweight 
> powerful IDE-like. So now it is not an option but I will reconsider it in the 
> future, learning little by little. Also, I am not very fan GUI guy if the 
> task can be accomplished through the terminal. However, I don’t understand 
> why people underrate GUIs, that said I normally use shortcuts for the most 
> frequent tasks and when I have to do something that is not that frequent then 
> I do it with the mouse, for the latter case in vim you would need to look for 
> that specific command every time. 
> 
> Sublime is my current and preferred code editor. I installed Anaconda, Git 
> integration and a couple of additional plugins that make sublime very 
> powerful. Also, what I like about sublime compared to the full featured IDEs, 
> besides the minimalism, is how you can perform code navigation back and forth 
> so fast, I mean this is something that you can also do with the others but 
> for some subjective reason I specifically love how sublime does it. The code 
> completion in sublime I do not find it very intelligence, the 
> SublimeCodeIntel is better than the one that Anaconda uses but the 
> completions are not as verbose as in the IDEs.
> 
> Now, I am thinking about giving a try to Visual Studio Code Edition (take a 
> look, it sounds good 
> https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=donjayamanne.python). I 
> need an editor for professional software development. What would you 
> recommend to me?

I am told that means other than Emacs exist to edit code and interact with 
systems, but I don't worry about them.

Happy New Year,
Chris
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Antonio Caminero Garcia]

Guys really thank you for your answers. Basically now I am more emphasizing in 
learning in depth a tool and get stick to it so I can get a fast workflow. 
Eventually I will learn Vim and its python developing setup, I know people who 
have been programming using Vim for almost 20 years and they did not need to 
change editor (that is really awesome). 
-- 
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Antonio Caminero Garcia]

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 5:57:51 PM UTC-8, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Jan 2017 10:38 pm, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
> 
> > Hello, I am having a hard time deciding what IDE or IDE-like code editor
> > should I use. This can be overwhelming.
> 
> Linux is my IDE.
> 
> https://sanctum.geek.nz/arabesque/series/unix-as-ide/
> 
> 
> I dislike the Unix-style Vim/Emacs text editors, I prefer a traditional
> GUI-based editor. So my "IDE" is:
> 
> - Firefox, for doing searches and looking up documentation;
> 
> - an GUI programmer's editor, preferably one with a tab-based 
>   interface, such as geany or kate;
> 
> - a tab-based terminal.
> 
> Both geany and kate offer auto-completion based on previously seen words.
> They won't auto-complete function or method signatures, but in my my
> experience this is the "ninety percent" solution: word-based auto-complete
> provides 90% of the auto-complete functionality without the cost of full
> signature-based auto-complete.
> 
> In the terminal, I have at least three tabs open: one open to the Python
> interactive interpreter, for testing code snippets and help(obj); one where
> I run my unit tests ("python -m unittest myproject_tests"); and one where I
> do any assorted other tasks, such as file management, checking code into
> the repo, etc.
> 
> I've played with mypy a few times, but not used it seriously in any
> projects. If I did, I would run that from the command line too, like the
> unit tests. Likewise for any linters or equivalent.
> 
> 
> > So far, I have used Vim, Sublime, Atom, Eclipse with PyDev, Pycharm,
> > IntelliJ with Python plugin.
> > 
> > The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ,
> > Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that
> > unwarranted resources consumption and the unnecessary icons. 
> 
> Indeed. If they provide any useful functionality I don't already have, I've
> never come across it. The only thing I'd like to try is an editor that
> offers semantic highlighting instead of syntax highlighting:
> 
> https://medium.com/@evnbr/coding-in-color-3a6db2743a1e
> 
> I once tried Spyder as an IDE, and found that it was so bloated and slow it
> couldn't even keep up with my typing. I'm not even a touch typist! I'd
> start to type a line like:
> 
> except ValueError as err:
> 
> 
> and by the time my fingers were hitting the colon, Spyder was displaying
> `excep` in red flagged with an icon indicating a syntax error.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve
> “Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure
> enough, things got worse.

Thanks for remind the Unix capabilities as IDE, that post was cool to read.
-- 
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Steve D'Aprano]

On Mon, 2 Jan 2017 10:38 pm, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:

> Hello, I am having a hard time deciding what IDE or IDE-like code editor
> should I use. This can be overwhelming.

Linux is my IDE.

https://sanctum.geek.nz/arabesque/series/unix-as-ide/


I dislike the Unix-style Vim/Emacs text editors, I prefer a traditional
GUI-based editor. So my "IDE" is:

- Firefox, for doing searches and looking up documentation;

- an GUI programmer's editor, preferably one with a tab-based 
  interface, such as geany or kate;

- a tab-based terminal.

Both geany and kate offer auto-completion based on previously seen words.
They won't auto-complete function or method signatures, but in my my
experience this is the "ninety percent" solution: word-based auto-complete
provides 90% of the auto-complete functionality without the cost of full
signature-based auto-complete.

In the terminal, I have at least three tabs open: one open to the Python
interactive interpreter, for testing code snippets and help(obj); one where
I run my unit tests ("python -m unittest myproject_tests"); and one where I
do any assorted other tasks, such as file management, checking code into
the repo, etc.

I've played with mypy a few times, but not used it seriously in any
projects. If I did, I would run that from the command line too, like the
unit tests. Likewise for any linters or equivalent.


> So far, I have used Vim, Sublime, Atom, Eclipse with PyDev, Pycharm,
> IntelliJ with Python plugin.
> 
> The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ,
> Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that
> unwarranted resources consumption and the unnecessary icons. 

Indeed. If they provide any useful functionality I don't already have, I've
never come across it. The only thing I'd like to try is an editor that
offers semantic highlighting instead of syntax highlighting:

https://medium.com/@evnbr/coding-in-color-3a6db2743a1e

I once tried Spyder as an IDE, and found that it was so bloated and slow it
couldn't even keep up with my typing. I'm not even a touch typist! I'd
start to type a line like:

except ValueError as err:


and by the time my fingers were hitting the colon, Spyder was displaying
`excep` in red flagged with an icon indicating a syntax error.




-- 
Steve
“Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.

-- 
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Tim Johnson]

* Antonio Caminero Garcia  [170102 02:50]:
<> 

> Now, I am thinking about giving a try to Visual Studio Code
> Edition (take a look, it sounds good
> https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=donjayamanne.python).
> I need an editor for professional software development. What would
> you recommend to me?
  The best thing - as has been emphasised by others regarding this
  topic - is to establish tools, stick with them and learn them
  well.

  I use two approaches on linux:

  1)From Gnome terminal I run MC (midnight commander) as my default
  file manager with vim (in terminal mode) as the MC default editor.
  This method is used for ad-hoc editing of python source code, but
  also for system editing in general.

  2)I use emacs with elpy mode in GUI mode for large-scale work.
  Elpy is so helpful, I'm almost embarassed to admit being a
  pythonist. To compound the embarassment, the elpy developer is
  extremely helpful and very generous. :)

  -> I've used gvim (GUI mode) extensively in the past. 

  I find vim more "nimble", thus my preferance for quick-and-dirty
  edits. 
  
  Emacs, on the other hand, is enormously extendable and I have
  implemented extensive keymapping. For me, augmenting keymapping
  with the emacs help system trumps vim's more nimble approach. 
  
  In addition, I've implemented an auxilary help system using emacs'
  built-in browser so that I can call up category - based
  "cheat-sheats" with simple html highlighting and hyperlinking.

  My caveat is that both vim and emacs are a tough learning curve.
  Vimscript extends vim, elisp extends emacs. In both cases, one is
  essentially learning an additional programming language. 

  One's personal preference for input devices should also be
  considered, IMHO :

  I prefer the keyboard over pointing devices and a trackball over a
  mouse for pointing device. I use a small-footprint 68-key
  tenkeyless keyboard with a standalone keypad with my left hand
  (trackball is on the right). I've also programmed the keypad
  extensively for emacs.

  The bottom line, as others have stated, is to consistently stick
  with some approach that fits one's personal preferences. 
  
  We are fortunate to have so many options. 
  
-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Antonio Caminero Garcia]

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 8:24:29 AM UTC-8, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 01/02/2017 04:38 AM, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
> > The problem with Vim is the learning curve, so I know the very basic
> > stuff, but obviously not enough for coding and I do not have time to
> > learn it, it is a pity because there are awesome plugins that turns
> > Vim into a lightweight powerful IDE-like. So now it is not an option
> > but I will reconsider it in the future, learning little by little.
> > Also, I am not very fan GUI guy if the task can be accomplished
> > through the terminal. However, I don’t understand why people
> > underrate GUIs, that said I normally use shortcuts for the most
> > frequent tasks and when I have to do something that is not that
> > frequent then I do it with the mouse, for the latter case in vim you
> > would need to look for that specific command every time.
> 
> Really, the basic stuff is enough to be very productive in vim.  In fact
> just knowing how to save and quit is half the battle!  A little cheat
> sheet for vim by your keyboard would be plenty I think.  If all you knew
> was how to change modes, insert, append, change word, yank, delete, and
> paste, that is 99% of what you'd use every day.  You can use normal
> arrow keys, home, end, and page up and page down for cursor movement in
> vim, so even if you can't remember ^,$, gg, or GG, you'll do fine.
> Eventually you can begin to add in other things, like modifiers to c
> (change).
> 
> There probably are a lot of nice plugins for ViM, but I use none of
> them. I just don't find them that useful.  I don't seem to need any IDE
> help with Python.

yeah, for me I think of the IDE (and computers in general must be seen like 
that) as a coworker or as paring programming experience. So I agree I have been 
developing in Python without IDE a long time and I know if I had some features 
borrow from full featured IDEs will definitely   help me out.I will give a try 
to Vim asap, now I am trying Visual Studio now and it seems that is all I want.
-- 
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Juan C.]

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Antonio Caminero Garcia <
tonycam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse,
IntelliJ, Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that
unwarranted resources consumption and the unnecessary icons. I want my IDE
to be minimalistic but powerful. My screen should be mostly “made of code”
as usually happens in Vim, Sublime or Atom. However, Pycharm is really cool
and python oriented.

I use Sublime Text for small scripts and PyCharm Professional for bigger
projects and I don't find it resource heavy and the interface is simple
enough. You can pretty much hide all menus and sidebars on PyCharm and
you'd get pure code (it also has a "Distraction Free" mode), I suggest you
to read Pycharm's official doc to know a little more about it. My advice is
to NOT overthink it. IDEs and code editor are just tools, just pick one you
like and you're done.
-- 
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Cameron Simpson]

On 02Jan2017 21:30, Matt Wheeler  wrote:

On Mon, 2 Jan 2017 at 16:24 Michael Torrie  wrote:

Really, the basic stuff is enough to be very productive in vim.  In fact
just knowing how to save and quit is half the battle!  A little cheat
sheet for vim by your keyboard would be plenty I think. [...]


When I was learning vi I'd often spend a day learning a single keystroke. Not 
because they're hard, but because I wanted it in my typing muscle memory. This 
approach controlled the numberof new things I was trying to learn (roughly one 
thing at a time) while still steadily accumulating vi skills.


[...]

Once you get comfortable with that, perhaps set a target to learn one or
two normal-mode commands a week and go from there.


Indeed, like that!


There probably are a lot of nice plugins for ViM, but I use none of
them. I just don't find them that useful.  I don't seem to need any IDE
help with Python.


On the other hand I use bags of plugins. I particularly recommend Jedi if
your computer is fast enough (it's a bit of a resource hog), and syntastic
as a great way to integrate style checkers & linters into vim.


I've been a traditional vi die hard for too long. I moved to vim (as my 
default) some years ago for: utf-8 support, syntax colouring, filename 
completion.


Recently I'm in a shiny new job with shinier newer people and am starting down 
the Dark Path of plugins. Presently I'm using ctrlp, which is a great way to 
open files in a deep/wide code tree, partiularly one which is still unfamiliar.


I guess my point here is that, as with others, you don't need to be expert with 
a particular editor; once past the basics you will be productive and you can 
steadily accrue skill with it.


Regarding IDEs, my environment is a shell terminal and a vim terminal and a 
browser for doco. Tiled windows (exactly how depends on your platform - I'm on 
a Mac at present and using Divvy to position windows).


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
--
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Matt Wheeler]

On Mon, 2 Jan 2017 at 16:24 Michael Torrie  wrote:

> Really, the basic stuff is enough to be very productive in vim.  In fact
> just knowing how to save and quit is half the battle!  A little cheat
> sheet for vim by your keyboard would be plenty I think.  If all you knew
> was how to change modes, insert, append, change word, yank, delete, and
> paste, that is 99% of what you'd use every day.  You can use normal
> arrow keys, home, end, and page up and page down for cursor movement in
> vim, so even if you can't remember ^,$, gg, or GG, you'll do fine.
> Eventually you can begin to add in other things, like modifiers to c
> (change).
>

I second this. Make sure you've got all the nice Vim stuff enabled (set
nocompatible, set mouse=a etc.). And if you're not comfortable to begin
with using normal-mode commands, just stick with the mouse, arrow keys &
insert mode.
Once you get comfortable with that, perhaps set a target to learn one or
two normal-mode commands a week and go from there. I found as soon as I'd
learnt to use the direction commands & save I was already more productive
in vim than Notepad++ for example, and I just got faster from there.


> There probably are a lot of nice plugins for ViM, but I use none of
> them. I just don't find them that useful.  I don't seem to need any IDE
> help with Python.
>

On the other hand I use bags of plugins. I particularly recommend Jedi if
your computer is fast enough (it's a bit of a resource hog), and syntastic
as a great way to integrate style checkers & linters into vim.
-- 

--
Matt Wheeler
http://funkyh.at
-- 
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Irmen de Jong]

On 2-1-2017 12:38, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:

> The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ, 
> Pycharm)
> is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that unwarranted resources
> consumption and the unnecessary icons. I want my IDE to be minimalistic but 
> powerful.
> My screen should be mostly “made of code” as usually happens in Vim, Sublime 
> or Atom.
> However, Pycharm is really cool and python oriented.

[...]

> Sublime is my current and preferred code editor. 


If you like Sublime, and its minimalistic 'Distraction Free Mode', you'll be 
delighted
to know that this exact same feature is in PyCharm as well.
Select it (View->Enter distraction free mode), and gone is all the screen 
clutter and
even the menu bar if you so desire. You can focus on just your code. And all of
PyCharm's features are still there a mouse click or keyboard shortcut away.


Irmen
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[justin walters]

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 3:38 AM, Antonio Caminero Garcia <
tonycam...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, I am having a hard time deciding what IDE or IDE-like code editor
> should I use. This can be overwhelming.
>
> So far, I have used Vim, Sublime, Atom, Eclipse with PyDev, Pycharm,
> IntelliJ with Python plugin.
>
> The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ,
> Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that
> unwarranted resources consumption and the unnecessary icons. I want my IDE
> to be minimalistic but powerful. My screen should be mostly “made of code”
> as usually happens in Vim, Sublime or Atom. However, Pycharm is really cool
> and python oriented.
>
> The problem with Vim is the learning curve, so I know the very basic
> stuff, but obviously not enough for coding and I do not have time to learn
> it, it is a pity because there are awesome plugins that turns Vim into a
> lightweight powerful IDE-like. So now it is not an option but I will
> reconsider it in the future, learning little by little. Also, I am not very
> fan GUI guy if the task can be accomplished through the terminal. However,
> I don’t understand why people underrate GUIs, that said I normally use
> shortcuts for the most frequent tasks and when I have to do something that
> is not that frequent then I do it with the mouse, for the latter case in
> vim you would need to look for that specific command every time.
>
> Sublime is my current and preferred code editor. I installed Anaconda, Git
> integration and a couple of additional plugins that make sublime very
> powerful. Also, what I like about sublime compared to the full featured
> IDEs, besides the minimalism, is how you can perform code navigation back
> and forth so fast, I mean this is something that you can also do with the
> others but for some subjective reason I specifically love how sublime does
> it. The code completion in sublime I do not find it very intelligence, the
> SublimeCodeIntel is better than the one that Anaconda uses but the
> completions are not as verbose as in the IDEs.
>
> Now, I am thinking about giving a try to Visual Studio Code Edition (take
> a look, it sounds good https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?
> itemName=donjayamanne.python). I need an editor for professional software
> development. What would you recommend to me?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Have yo tried emacs? It's similar to Vim in that it relies very heavily on
keyboard shortcuts and such.
However, you may like the shortcuts a bit more or find them easier to learn.

I side with Marc Brooks in that I believe you should definitely be willing
to put in the time to learn
an editor of your choice. Becoming an expert at using an editor will make
you a lot more productive.

Personally, I use Pycharm for most of my projects as I deal with large
amounts of different files that can be
thousands of lines long. All of the code completion and structure indexing
really helps when you need to
remember the structure of large applications. Pycharm's debugger
integration is also totally awesome. I usually
use the debugger to run my tests to get more informative tracebacks or to
add breakpoints to failing tests. The git
integration is very useful as well because I personally hate Git's CLI.

For some small projects I'll use Atom as it gives me a sublime-esque
interface without forcing me to use proprietary
software.

Otherwise I'll use nano for small, single file projects.

Have you looked into ipython notebook? It's not exactly an IDE, but it does
have built in code completion and makes'
it really simple to document your code.
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Michael Torrie]

On 01/02/2017 04:38 AM, Antonio Caminero Garcia wrote:
> The problem with Vim is the learning curve, so I know the very basic
> stuff, but obviously not enough for coding and I do not have time to
> learn it, it is a pity because there are awesome plugins that turns
> Vim into a lightweight powerful IDE-like. So now it is not an option
> but I will reconsider it in the future, learning little by little.
> Also, I am not very fan GUI guy if the task can be accomplished
> through the terminal. However, I don’t understand why people
> underrate GUIs, that said I normally use shortcuts for the most
> frequent tasks and when I have to do something that is not that
> frequent then I do it with the mouse, for the latter case in vim you
> would need to look for that specific command every time.

Really, the basic stuff is enough to be very productive in vim.  In fact
just knowing how to save and quit is half the battle!  A little cheat
sheet for vim by your keyboard would be plenty I think.  If all you knew
was how to change modes, insert, append, change word, yank, delete, and
paste, that is 99% of what you'd use every day.  You can use normal
arrow keys, home, end, and page up and page down for cursor movement in
vim, so even if you can't remember ^,$, gg, or GG, you'll do fine.
Eventually you can begin to add in other things, like modifiers to c
(change).

There probably are a lot of nice plugins for ViM, but I use none of
them. I just don't find them that useful.  I don't seem to need any IDE
help with Python.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Marc Brooks]

I'd recommend you be willing to put in the time and effort to learn the
tools you want to use, if you want to do professional software
development.  Pick one, use it for a month (at least 100+ hours of hands on
keyboard coding).  Sublime, Vi are great for Python, since Python doesn't
require as much as some other languages, but you sill need to put in the
time to learn the tool.

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 6:38 AM, Antonio Caminero Garcia <
tonycam...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, I am having a hard time deciding what IDE or IDE-like code editor
> should I use. This can be overwhelming.
>
> So far, I have used Vim, Sublime, Atom, Eclipse with PyDev, Pycharm,
> IntelliJ with Python plugin.
>
> The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ,
> Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that
> unwarranted resources consumption and the unnecessary icons. I want my IDE
> to be minimalistic but powerful. My screen should be mostly “made of code”
> as usually happens in Vim, Sublime or Atom. However, Pycharm is really cool
> and python oriented.
>
> The problem with Vim is the learning curve, so I know the very basic
> stuff, but obviously not enough for coding and I do not have time to learn
> it, it is a pity because there are awesome plugins that turns Vim into a
> lightweight powerful IDE-like. So now it is not an option but I will
> reconsider it in the future, learning little by little. Also, I am not very
> fan GUI guy if the task can be accomplished through the terminal. However,
> I don’t understand why people underrate GUIs, that said I normally use
> shortcuts for the most frequent tasks and when I have to do something that
> is not that frequent then I do it with the mouse, for the latter case in
> vim you would need to look for that specific command every time.
>
> Sublime is my current and preferred code editor. I installed Anaconda, Git
> integration and a couple of additional plugins that make sublime very
> powerful. Also, what I like about sublime compared to the full featured
> IDEs, besides the minimalism, is how you can perform code navigation back
> and forth so fast, I mean this is something that you can also do with the
> others but for some subjective reason I specifically love how sublime does
> it. The code completion in sublime I do not find it very intelligence, the
> SublimeCodeIntel is better than the one that Anaconda uses but the
> completions are not as verbose as in the IDEs.
>
> Now, I am thinking about giving a try to Visual Studio Code Edition (take
> a look, it sounds good https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?
> itemName=donjayamanne.python). I need an editor for professional software
> development. What would you recommend to me?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Antonio Caminero Garcia]

Hello, I am having a hard time deciding what IDE or IDE-like code editor should 
I use. This can be overwhelming.

So far, I have used Vim, Sublime, Atom, Eclipse with PyDev, Pycharm, IntelliJ 
with Python plugin. 

The thing with the from-the-scratch full featured IDEs (Eclipse, IntelliJ, 
Pycharm) is that they look like a space craft dashboard and that unwarranted 
resources consumption and the unnecessary icons. I want my IDE to be 
minimalistic but powerful. My screen should be mostly “made of code” as usually 
happens in Vim, Sublime or Atom. However, Pycharm is really cool and python 
oriented.

The problem with Vim is the learning curve, so I know the very basic stuff, but 
obviously not enough for coding and I do not have time to learn it, it is a 
pity because there are awesome plugins that turns Vim into a lightweight 
powerful IDE-like. So now it is not an option but I will reconsider it in the 
future, learning little by little. Also, I am not very fan GUI guy if the task 
can be accomplished through the terminal. However, I don’t understand why 
people underrate GUIs, that said I normally use shortcuts for the most frequent 
tasks and when I have to do something that is not that frequent then I do it 
with the mouse, for the latter case in vim you would need to look for that 
specific command every time. 

Sublime is my current and preferred code editor. I installed Anaconda, Git 
integration and a couple of additional plugins that make sublime very powerful. 
Also, what I like about sublime compared to the full featured IDEs, besides the 
minimalism, is how you can perform code navigation back and forth so fast, I 
mean this is something that you can also do with the others but for some 
subjective reason I specifically love how sublime does it. The code completion 
in sublime I do not find it very intelligence, the SublimeCodeIntel is better 
than the one that Anaconda uses but the completions are not as verbose as in 
the IDEs.

Now, I am thinking about giving a try to Visual Studio Code Edition (take a 
look, it sounds good 
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=donjayamanne.python). I 
need an editor for professional software development. What would you recommend 
to me?
-- 
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