Re: Is Python what I need?
On 2009-08-24 08:32 AM, Peter Otten wrote: Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote: > From the distance it looks like these children need a good teacher rather than a bad (or just starting) programmer. Wow, that is rude. Let's keep this list friendly, won't we ? I may have been too blunt, and if my message has come across as an insult I apologize for that. Let me try again: If you are trying to teach children that are unwilling to use pen and paper putting them in front of a computer doesn't help you and them one bit. As a starting programmer you'll have to spend a lot of time in front of your computer that may be better spent with your students. I suspect everyone is reading too much into the word "aversion". There may be physical or mental handicaps involved, not the personal preference of the students. In such a case, the OP's word choice is not ideal, but the readers here should give a little more thought before assuming the most ludicrous interpretation. -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." -- Umberto Eco -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python what I need?
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Peter Otten<__pete...@web.de> wrote: > If you are trying to teach children that are unwilling to use pen and paper > putting them in front of a computer doesn't help you and them one bit. As a > starting programmer you'll have to spend a lot of time in front of your > computer that may be better spent with your students. I don't think you were rude at all, but I like your second answer even more than the first. Nevertheless, I'd still like to hear from the Original Poster. What are you trying to accomplish? What software have you found that is too expensive? Given more information, somebody might be able to help. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python what I need?
Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote: >> >From the distance it looks like these children need a good teacher >> >rather than a bad (or just starting) programmer. > Wow, that is rude. Let's keep this list friendly, won't we ? I may have been too blunt, and if my message has come across as an insult I apologize for that. Let me try again: If you are trying to teach children that are unwilling to use pen and paper putting them in front of a computer doesn't help you and them one bit. As a starting programmer you'll have to spend a lot of time in front of your computer that may be better spent with your students. Better? Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python what I need?
Peter Otten wrote: newbie wrote: I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper. I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to develop these programs? >From the distance it looks like these children need a good teacher rather than a bad (or just starting) programmer. Wow, that is rude. Let's keep this list friendly, won't we ? JM -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python what I need?
> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs That is so open-ended it could mean anything. If you give a much more specified idea of what you are imagining creating, people could be helpful. > for students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper. Aversion? Why? Is it that they have such bad penmanship that writing is too frustrating? I've taught such students in college, and suspect (but do not know) that what would be good is to get them young and really put in the remedial time to train their penmanship up to sustained legibility and speed. Eventually society might go 100% electronic; for now, being able to write notes on paper is very helpful, and paper is still such a great technology aside from renewable concerns, but they can be greatly improved. (I even suspect rigorous and successful penmanship training might pay off in "general intelligence" gains) > I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my > needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these > students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came > across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is > therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie > users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to > develop these programs? I agree with Dave A that writing a useful program is often far harder than a beginner might imagine. That said, much would depend on what you would need the program to do. Python, in my limited experience as a hobbyist, strikes me as fairly easy to get started with in programming, and yet can do a great deal, too. So, as I said, more details about the intended program would help people guide your choice. Che -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python what I need?
newbie wrote: Hi all I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper. I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to develop these programs? I think I'm a bit confused as to just what you're intending, and what your background is. So if this response doesn't fit, please don't be offended. I'm guessing you don't want these special students to do any programming, but instead you just want to find/develop inexpensive applications for their use. You have some specific ideas, but haven't found anything already available within your budget. I'm also guessing that you're a total beginner at programming. If so, I claim that most programs are much, much harder to write than you can imagine. Python is one of the easiest languages to learn and to write things in, but even so, most GUI programs take hundreds of hours to develop. And I've been doing it for forty years, in about 30 languages. DaveA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python what I need?
On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, newbie wrote: > Hi all > I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for > students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper. > I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my > needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these > students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came > across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is > therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie > users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to > develop these programs? Perhaps, maybe, yes. Python has simple syntax and it can be grasped quite fast. It is also quite easy IMHO to go from easy interactive, calculator-like stuff to bigger things. It also has quite big library of specialized functions, to be used in bigger programs. So if this is what you are looking for, it seems you are in the right place. You may also have a look at Squeak. It is an implementation of Smalltalk language. As far as I can tell, it is targeted for kid users or young students, who are interested in programming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk http://www.squeak.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeak Or, I mean, Smalltalk is a general purpose language, just as Python. It is not a "kid language". Squeak, however, seems to be a bit easier for new users. After tinkering with it a little, I think it has few batteries not only included (like Python has) but connected to few toys as well. This makes it more playable than Python after unpacking the box. Wrt languages, their "goodness" or differences between them - I am pretty much sure a number of people will start pointing them out to you. But I don't think this is really that much important. All languages are more or less similar because they serve the same purpose. Just try and do not use (Visual) Basic :-) and you should be ok. Well, maybe this is just me, but I consider VB to be a dead-end. Besides, if this is going to be "let's show them how interesting it is", you should stay away from languages more complicated, like Java. Those who are going to learn Java, will learn it anyway. Knowing something different and cool first should not kill them. Quite the contrary, it can be an eye opener. Regards Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python what I need?
newbie wrote: > I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for > students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper. > I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my > needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these > students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came > across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is > therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie > users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to > develop these programs? >From the distance it looks like these children need a good teacher rather than a bad (or just starting) programmer. They need goals they can understand and share, not yet another tool. But it's interactive? Yeah, three canned answers instead of just one... That said, Python is a good language for the casual developer. You can whack together something pretty quickly. It may not be perfect, but you don't waste time on administrative overhead either. Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python what I need?
On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 9:26 PM, newbie wrote: > Hi all > I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for > students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper. What sort of interactive program? Would it be educational, for example? > I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my > needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these > students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. Could you give us the details of which software you've encountered that were either too expensive or did not meet your needs? > I came across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question > is > therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie > users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to > develop these programs? Any language can do the job. What a program does depends on the design, and specification. Different languages simply have different behaviours, and perhaps platform dependence and requirements. So, in some way, yes, Python can do what you need, but you need to tell us in exact details what you were really looking for. Good luck, Xav -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Is Python what I need?
Hi all I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper. I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to develop these programs? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
