re: nagios
Adam, Frankly, I am getting really tired of listening to you. I've seen numerous good posts on this list, some post more good quality information and arguments than others, and so far I have yet to see any post of yours where you do not resort to insults and totally avoid the argument. I understand people have different views, but all you are doing is insulting anyone who dares not to agree with you, while making yourself look childish and pathetic in the attempt. So: Eeither 1) Shut up and quit wasting bandwidth, or 2) Grow up and recognize that your being rude is not going to get you anywhere. If you have different views, that's great, but your resorting to insults for lack of anything better is getting really old. While I do recognize that this isn't much better than what you are posting, I hope that you will read it or that something will be done about your responses, as they are contributing nothing at all useful to any discussions. On 1/1/2011 4:55 PM, Adam Skutt wrote: On Jan 1, 6:21 pm, Robert wrote: Really? How many templating systems does Python have? More than one? Why is that? How many web frameworks does Perl have? More than one? Why is that? Why *was* Nagios forked and re-written in Python? There are too many examples to count. You're missing the point: you've yet to provide any sort of argument whatsoever. It's not automatically true that rewriting Nagios in Tcl would gain the Tcl community more exposure, nor is it automatically true that more exposure is a good or desirable thing. You first have to show how rewriting Nagios in Tcl would gain them more exposure. Then you have to show that the exposure would be a good thing. Until you've done both, you're arguing with very fundamental and conventional engineering wisdom; and you have not actually presented an argument just tautologies. Neither will be easy to prove, by and by large, most people don't give a shit what language their applications are written in and rightly so. Just gave you a bunch. No, you've given me examples of wheel reinvention. Just because the people reinventing the wheel thought it was a good thing doesn't actually make it so. You personally have to present the case as to why it is a good thing. I want to apologize for my part. We just aren't going to see the same side of this. You can apologize, but I don't accept it. You want to actually apologize? Admit you were wrong and retract, or act like an adult and present an actual argument instead of wasting time. Adam -- Thanks, Ty -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Nagios
On Jan 1, 6:21 pm, Robert wrote: > > Really? How many templating systems does Python have? More than one? > Why is that? How many web frameworks does Perl have? More than one? Why > is that? > > Why *was* Nagios forked and re-written in Python? > > There are too many examples to count. > You're missing the point: you've yet to provide any sort of argument whatsoever. It's not automatically true that rewriting Nagios in Tcl would gain the Tcl community more exposure, nor is it automatically true that more exposure is a good or desirable thing. You first have to show how rewriting Nagios in Tcl would gain them more exposure. Then you have to show that the exposure would be a good thing. Until you've done both, you're arguing with very fundamental and conventional engineering wisdom; and you have not actually presented an argument just tautologies. Neither will be easy to prove, by and by large, most people don't give a shit what language their applications are written in and rightly so. > Just gave you a bunch. No, you've given me examples of wheel reinvention. Just because the people reinventing the wheel thought it was a good thing doesn't actually make it so. You personally have to present the case as to why it is a good thing. > I want to apologize for my part. We just aren't going to see the same > side of this. You can apologize, but I don't accept it. You want to actually apologize? Admit you were wrong and retract, or act like an adult and present an actual argument instead of wasting time. Adam -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Nagios
On 2011-01-01 10:34:46 -0500, Adam Skutt said: On Saturday, January 1, 2011 10:00:06 AM UTC-5, Robert H wrote: Right, just because you say it paints me in a negative light. Look at every language out there and look within the groups. Everyone is trying to revinvent the wheel to (in their view) make it better. "Everyone" is doing nothing of the sort, hence why Tcl "irks" you. Or are you so forgetful that you can't even remember what you said a few days ago? Your argument is sad to me. At least I've made an argument, whereas you've done nothing of the sort. Just because you take wheel reinvention == good as a tautology doesn't mean everyone else does. Again, what point is there in attempting to win a non-existent popularity contest? Adam I want to apologize for my part. We just aren't going to see the same side of this. -- Robert -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Nagios
On 2011-01-01 10:34:46 -0500, Adam Skutt said: On Saturday, January 1, 2011 10:00:06 AM UTC-5, Robert H wrote: Right, just because you say it paints me in a negative light. Look at every language out there and look within the groups. Everyone is trying to revinvent the wheel to (in their view) make it better. "Everyone" is doing nothing of the sort, hence why Tcl "irks" you. Or are you so forgetful that you can't even remember what you said a few days ago? Really? How many templating systems does Python have? More than one? Why is that? How many web frameworks does Perl have? More than one? Why is that? Why *was* Nagios forked and re-written in Python? There are too many examples to count. Your argument is sad to me. At least I've made an argument, whereas you've done nothing of the sort. Just because you take wheel reinvention == good as a tautology doesn't mean everyone else does. Again, what point is there in attempting to win a non-existent popularity contest? Adam Just gave you a bunch. You have totally missed the whole point of the original argument. Nice job. Done with you now. -- Robert -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Nagios
On Saturday, January 1, 2011 10:00:06 AM UTC-5, Robert H wrote: > > Right, just because you say it paints me in a negative light. Look at > every language out there and look within the groups. Everyone is trying > to revinvent the wheel to (in their view) make it better. "Everyone" is doing nothing of the sort, hence why Tcl "irks" you. Or are you so forgetful that you can't even remember what you said a few days ago? > Your argument is sad to me. At least I've made an argument, whereas you've done nothing of the sort. Just because you take wheel reinvention == good as a tautology doesn't mean everyone else does. Again, what point is there in attempting to win a non-existent popularity contest? Adam -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Nagios
On 2010-12-31 23:57:24 -0500, Adam Skutt said: On Friday, December 31, 2010 9:56:02 PM UTC-5, Robert H wrote: It was forked to be written in Python, yes. The whole point (and it wasn't a Nagios port to Tcl) was that the Tcl community (and I like the Tcl community a lot) has a strange fixation with not reinventing the wheel, even when the wheel would be in Tcl and it might give Tcl more exposure. It is what it is though. -- Perhaps because they'd rather do something useful with the tool they've created instead of trying to win some sort of nonexistent popularity contest? What value would there be in that? Not trying to reinvent the wheel whenever feasible is both good programming and good engineering most of the time. Unfortunately, the fact you see this as irksome only paints you in a negative light. Adam Right, just because you say it paints me in a negative light. Look at every language out there and look within the groups. Everyone is trying to revinvent the wheel to (in their view) make it better. Your argument is sad to me. -- Robert -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Nagios
On Friday, December 31, 2010 9:56:02 PM UTC-5, Robert H wrote: > It was forked to be written in Python, yes. The whole point (and it > wasn't a Nagios port to Tcl) was that the Tcl community (and I like the > Tcl community a lot) has a strange fixation with not reinventing the > wheel, even when the wheel would be in Tcl and it might give Tcl more > exposure. It is what it is though. > > -- Perhaps because they'd rather do something useful with the tool they've created instead of trying to win some sort of nonexistent popularity contest? What value would there be in that? Not trying to reinvent the wheel whenever feasible is both good programming and good engineering most of the time. Unfortunately, the fact you see this as irksome only paints you in a negative light. Adam -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Nagios
On 2010-12-31 16:52:30 -0500, Antoine Pitrou said: On 31 Dec 2010 04:20:59 GMT Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 23:04:33 -0500, Robert wrote: The second way the Tcl community irks me is the "not invented here" attitude. I like the syntax of Tcl and I like the community. They are some good folks. Try asking "I want to build a Nagios clone in Tcl" type question and invariably you get "Why? There is already Nagios?". You're the one who wants to re-write Nagios in Tcl, the Tcl community are perfectly happy using the existing Nagios instead of re-inventing the wheel, and you accuse *them* of suffering from NIH syndrome. Well, I don't know about Tcl but Nagios was re-written in Python: http://www.shinken-monitoring.org/features/ Regards Antoine. It was forked to be written in Python, yes. The whole point (and it wasn't a Nagios port to Tcl) was that the Tcl community (and I like the Tcl community a lot) has a strange fixation with not reinventing the wheel, even when the wheel would be in Tcl and it might give Tcl more exposure. It is what it is though. -- Robert -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Nagios
On 31 Dec 2010 04:20:59 GMT Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 23:04:33 -0500, Robert wrote: > > > The > > second way the Tcl community irks me is the "not invented here" > > attitude. I like the syntax of Tcl and I like the community. They are > > some good folks. Try asking "I want to build a Nagios clone in Tcl" type > > question and invariably you get "Why? There is already Nagios?". > > You're the one who wants to re-write Nagios in Tcl, the Tcl community are > perfectly happy using the existing Nagios instead of re-inventing the > wheel, and you accuse *them* of suffering from NIH syndrome. Well, I don't know about Tcl but Nagios was re-written in Python: http://www.shinken-monitoring.org/features/ Regards Antoine. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python and Nagios
Hello all- We have started using Nagios at work to monitor our computer system and have been very happy with the results. We have decided to use it monitor our business processes as well, so I needed to write custom plug-ins and I opted to use Python because I am very comfortable with it. I found an excellent paper by Cameron Laird and Wojciech Kocjan showing the basics (thanks, guys!) and I have written plugins to verify the arrival and departure of files as well as the completion of business processes. We plan to use Nagios to report on file audits and reprocess jobs that have failed because a database or Internet connection burps. We have great plans for Nagios and I intend to submit a paper to next years PyCon showing what we have done. What I would like to know is if there is anything resembling a package to help with plugin deveopment with Python. I have a base class that provides most of the GNU plugin requirements (warning and critical threshold pattern processing, logging requirements, etc) and would like to work on creating something to release for general use, but I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Is there anything close to what I'm suggesting out there? I've looked in the standard places and have not located anything. I will continue to add to my local package and, if I don't hear about a similar effort, will look to create something for the Cheese Shop. If you are interested in helping out, please drop me a line via the list or at gslindstrom via gmail. Thanks, --greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
