Re: OT: Code Examples
Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: > Paul Rubin wrote: > > > Anyway, try googling "evil mangler" > > I know what the "evil mangler" is. It was called that because it > threw away all the principles of good software design in favour > of expediency. GHC now has a new LLVM backend which does not > depend on the evil mangler and I strongly suspect that the backend > which uses the evil mangler will be dumped in the next year or > two. I have some more information about the replacement of the Evil Mangler. According to this paper: http://llvm.org/pubs/2010-09-HASKELLSYM-LLVM-GHC.pdf the new LLVM backend for the GHC compiler still has a mangler phase, but the new LLVM Mangler is 180 lines of heavily commented Haskell code which replaces a 2000 lines of poorly commented Perl script. Full disclosure: the Perl mangler needs to parse the GNU assembler code while the Haskell mangler only needs to operate on data structures already defined elesewhere. However, the Evil Mangler only handled a small subset of CPU architectures, while the new LLM Mangler works on the architecture independent LLVM intermediate representation. > > and ask why it wasn't done in Haskell. Same idea. > > Expediency over common sense? Ignoring the parsing issue, this shows that Haskell was certainly up to the task of doing everything the Evil Mangler was doing. Erik -- -- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On Thu, Mar 03, 2011 at 02:29:54PM EST, Emile van Sebille wrote: > On 3/1/2011 3:59 PM Chris Jones said... >> On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 12:03:02PM EST, Emile van Sebille wrote: >>> On 3/1/2011 12:43 AM Erik de Castro Lopo said... >> Why Python? >>> >>> For me? Because it's executable pseudocode >> >> Not for nothing, Emile.. hey.. you could end up with pseudo bugs and >> pseudo headaches .. >> > > Ah -- that's why there's Pseudoephedrine... > > :) Ah yes..!! Excellent..! cj -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On 3/1/2011 3:59 PM Chris Jones said... On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 12:03:02PM EST, Emile van Sebille wrote: On 3/1/2011 12:43 AM Erik de Castro Lopo said... Why Python? For me? Because it's executable pseudocode Not for nothing, Emile.. hey.. you could end up with pseudo bugs and pseudo headaches .. Ah -- that's why there's Pseudoephedrine... :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On Mar 2, 3:30 am, Robert Kern wrote: > On 2/28/11 10:03 AM, Fred Marshall wrote: > > > I'm interested in developing Python-based programs, including an engineering > > app. ... re-writing from Fortran and C versions. One of the objectives > > would to > > be make reasonable use of the available structure (objects, etc.). So, I'd > > like > > to read a couple of good, simple scientific-oriented programs that do that > > kind > > of thing. > > You may want to take a look at Clear Climate Code. It is a rewrite of an old, > hairy FORTRAN climate analysis program with the goal of making it clearer and > easier to understand. That's somewhat different from having an example of what > you would write de novo, but it might help give you strategies for the process > of translating your own FORTRAN and C engineering codes. > > http://clearclimatecode.org/ > > -- > Robert Kern > > "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma > that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it > had > an underlying truth." > -- Umberto Eco that link is really useful helps that it is the same field! Does anyone have any more like that? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: > Definitely not. As I said I used Python for a number of years > and ditched it in favour of Ocaml and Haskell. > These are all 3 intriguing languages. I wish I had time to learn OCaML and Haskell, and I wish one or both of them were near gaining critical mass. I suspect it'll take one of them becoming implicitly parallel for that to happen. The ease of development and high level language features of > Python look really good if all you know is C, C++ and Java. > The big difference Python and those three languages is that > there are a huge number of classes of bugs which are run time > errors in Python but compile time errors in C/C++/Java. > > I will always chose compile time errors over run time errors. > Yes, me too. But of course, python has pylint, pyflakes and pychecker, which make short work of what would be compile-time errors in statically typed languages. For any serious python programming, I use pylint - often even on my unit tests, which of course themselves also catch many blunders. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 12:03:02PM EST, Emile van Sebille wrote: > On 3/1/2011 12:43 AM Erik de Castro Lopo said... >> Why Python? > > For me? Because it's executable pseudocode Not for nothing, Emile.. hey.. you could end up with pseudo bugs and pseudo headaches .. cj -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
Am Mon, 28 Feb 2011 08:03:01 -0800 schrieb Fred Marshall: > I'm interested in developing Python-based programs, including an > engineering app. ... re-writing from Fortran and C versions. One of the > objectives would to be make reasonable use of the available structure > (objects, etc.). So, I'd like to read a couple of good, simple > scientific-oriented programs that do that kind of thing. > > Looking for links, etc. > > Fred An execellent book in this domain is "Python Scripting for Computational Science" by Hans Petter Langtangen Springer, ISBN 3-450-43508-5 HTH. Martin -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
geremy condra wrote: > Ah, so you're looking for an argument. This is abuse, you want room > 12A just down the hall. They have comfy chairs there. No one expects it. -- Tom Zych / freethin...@pobox.com Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: > Paul Rubin wrote: > >> Erik de Castro Lopo writes: >> > Why Python? I really can't understand the rush of every man and >> > his dog to Python. >> >> Are you trolling? > > All my responses to this thread are really mean for comp.dsp, > not for comp.lang.python. Ah, so you're looking for an argument. This is abuse, you want room 12A just down the hall. Geremy Condra -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
Paul Rubin wrote: > Erik de Castro Lopo writes: > > Why Python? I really can't understand the rush of every man and > > his dog to Python. > > Are you trolling? All my responses to this thread are really mean for comp.dsp, not for comp.lang.python. Erik -- -- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On 3/1/2011 12:43 AM Erik de Castro Lopo said... Why Python? For me? Because it's executable pseudocode Emile -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
Paul Rubin wrote: > Erik de Castro Lopo writes: > > Why Python? I really can't understand the rush of every man and > > his dog to Python. > > Are you trolling? Definitely not. As I said I used Python for a number of years and ditched it in favour of Ocaml and Haskell. The ease of development and high level language features of Python look really good if all you know is C, C++ and Java. The big difference Python and those three languages is that there are a huge number of classes of bugs which are run time errors in Python but compile time errors in C/C++/Java. I will always chose compile time errors over run time errors. > Anyway, try googling "evil mangler" I know what the "evil mangler" is. It was called that because it threw away all the principles of good software design in favour of expediency. GHC now has a new LLVM backend which does not depend on the evil mangler and I strongly suspect that the backend which uses the evil mangler will be dumped in the next year or two. > and ask why it wasn't done in Haskell. Same idea. Expediency over common sense? Erik -- -- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On 2/28/11 10:03 AM, Fred Marshall wrote: I'm interested in developing Python-based programs, including an engineering app. ... re-writing from Fortran and C versions. One of the objectives would to be make reasonable use of the available structure (objects, etc.). So, I'd like to read a couple of good, simple scientific-oriented programs that do that kind of thing. You may want to take a look at Clear Climate Code. It is a rewrite of an old, hairy FORTRAN climate analysis program with the goal of making it clearer and easier to understand. That's somewhat different from having an example of what you would write de novo, but it might help give you strategies for the process of translating your own FORTRAN and C engineering codes. http://clearclimatecode.org/ -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." -- Umberto Eco -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On 01/03/2011 09:24, Richard Dobson wrote: But - I am ~still~ caught out by the semantic significance of indenting. Looks OK enough on paper, but doing it interactively is another matter. I still don't fully understand this argument. With Python, I am still doing indentation almost exactly the same way I was in any other language (and should be - I haven't ever seen any arguments for not indenting logical blocks). The only difference is, I don't need to put a block-end-identifier. I suppose I see how one could argue that this could potentially cause *mildly* confusing code, but only in extreme examples, and mainly only for multi-screen functions, that should rarely exist (and these are confusing even with bracketed blocks). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On Mar 1, 3:03 am, Fred Marshall wrote: > I'm interested in developing Python-based programs, including an > engineering app. ... re-writing from Fortran and C versions. One of the > objectives would to be make reasonable use of the available structure > (objects, etc.). So, I'd like to read a couple of good, simple > scientific-oriented programs that do that kind of thing. > > Looking for links, etc. > > Fred you could try searching here http://pypi.python.org/pypi. I had a look for models, but didn't find anything in particular. But would be really useful if anyone does know of some good examples -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: > Why Python? I really can't understand the rush of every man and > his dog to Python. > Its not that I'm a stick in the mud stuck with C and C++, rather > that I used Python for a number of years from 1998 to 2004 and > rejected it in favour of strict statically typed functional > langauges like Ocaml and Haskell. Hmm, if we abused this guy enough for his heresy, do you think he'd say he didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition? Then we could riff on that theme for days :-D -- Tom Zych / freethin...@pobox.com Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
Erik de Castro Lopo writes: > Why Python? I really can't understand the rush of every man and > his dog to Python. Are you trolling? Anyway, try googling "evil mangler" and ask why it wasn't done in Haskell. Same idea. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On 01/03/2011 08:43, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: Fred Marshall wrote: I'm interested in developing Python-based programs, including an engineering app. ... re-writing from Fortran and C versions. One of the objectives would to be make reasonable use of the available structure (objects, etc.). So, I'd like to read a couple of good, simple scientific-oriented programs that do that kind of thing. Why Python? I really can't understand the rush of every man and his dog to Python. Its not that I'm a stick in the mud stuck with C and C++, rather that I used Python for a number of years from 1998 to 2004 and rejected it in favour of strict statically typed functional langauges like Ocaml and Haskell. My understanding is/was that Guido originally proposed Python as the replacement for BASIC; i.e. to be the new first language students at school would be exposed to. So rather than compare it to C and C++, I suppose one should, strategically speaking, compare it to Visual Basic and/or Java. The other aspect is purely pragmatic - it has bindings for tk, MIDI and audio (and of course Csound as you know), which adds up to a fairly hefty scripting package complete with GUI design options - great for "knocking up stuff quickly". But - I am ~still~ caught out by the semantic significance of indenting. Looks OK enough on paper, but doing it interactively is another matter. Richard Dobson -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
Fred Marshall wrote: > I'm interested in developing Python-based programs, including an > engineering app. ... re-writing from Fortran and C versions. One of the > objectives would to be make reasonable use of the available structure > (objects, etc.). So, I'd like to read a couple of good, simple > scientific-oriented programs that do that kind of thing. Why Python? I really can't understand the rush of every man and his dog to Python. Its not that I'm a stick in the mud stuck with C and C++, rather that I used Python for a number of years from 1998 to 2004 and rejected it in favour of strict statically typed functional langauges like Ocaml and Haskell. Erik -- -- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On 2/28/2011 8:14 AM, n00m wrote: On Feb 28, 6:03 pm, Fred Marshall wrote: The best place for you to start: http://numpy.scipy.org/ Numpy manual: http://www.tramy.us/numpybook.pdf OK Thanks! Fred -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Code Examples
On Feb 28, 6:03 pm, Fred Marshall wrote: > I'm interested in developing Python-based programs, including an > engineering app. ... re-writing from Fortran and C versions. One of the > objectives would to be make reasonable use of the available structure > (objects, etc.). So, I'd like to read a couple of good, simple > scientific-oriented programs that do that kind of thing. > > Looking for links, etc. > > Fred The best place for you to start: http://numpy.scipy.org/ Numpy manual: http://www.tramy.us/numpybook.pdf -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
OT: Code Examples
I'm interested in developing Python-based programs, including an engineering app. ... re-writing from Fortran and C versions. One of the objectives would to be make reasonable use of the available structure (objects, etc.). So, I'd like to read a couple of good, simple scientific-oriented programs that do that kind of thing. Looking for links, etc. Fred -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
