Re: OT: Text editors
On 7/29/2012 5:28 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 29/07/2012 06:08, Ben Finney wrote: Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com writes: On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: I highly recommend the use of notepad++. If anyone knows of a better text editor for Windows please let me know :) I highly recommend not tying your editor skills to a single OS, especially one as ornery for programmers as Windows. I'll advocate for Vim which is crazy-powerful and works nicely on just about any platform I touch. Others will advocate for Emacs, which I can't say fits the way my brain works but it's also powerful and loved by many. Right. I'm in Tim's position, but reversed: my preference is for Emacs but Vim is a fine choice also. They are mature, well-supported with regular updates and a massive library of plug-ins for different uses, have a huge community to help you, and work on all major programming OSen. The ubiquity of these two platforms makes a worthwhile investment of time spent in learning at least one if not both. I use both frequently in my work for different things, and they are good for pretty much any task involving manipulation of text. Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry about text editors again. Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger. This thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using TPU on VMS. Have we got any VMS aficionados here? I used to run two VMS superminis. I'm not sure whether I still could, though. Robert Miles -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors
On 7/29/2012 5:28 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 29/07/2012 06:08, Ben Finney wrote: Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com writes: [byte] Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger. This thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using TPU on VMS. Have we got any VMS aficionados here? Absolutely, I used to do real time data acquisition on DEC machines. Started on PDP-8e's, graduated to PDP-12's, then jumped to 780's, and finished up on 8700's. Used CAMAC gear for the actual real-world interfaces; all at a well-known Dept. of Energy lab. Too many years ago. Bill -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors
rusi rustompm...@gmail.com writes: Do you use the emacs builtin python mode or the separate python-mode? I'm not sure. I have both installed. I try to keep my Emacs setup portable across different machines, so I'm probably using the built-in mode. Do you use pdb? Occasionally, but I haven't learned how to do that in Emacs. Any other special setups? GNU Screen and Emacs are the foundation of my programming environment. How about ipython? Never really liked it nor saw a need for it. I use the Python interactive console, with GNU readline so I get history preserved and tab-completion. But I am getting increasing 'funny looks' for not (for example) using eclipse.] Unless those funny looks are accompanied by compelling reasons to invest a whole lot of effort into learning a rather slow and complex program, then it seems you can ignore them. -- \ “The way to build large Python applications is to componentize | `\ and loosely-couple the hell out of everything.” —Aahz | _o__) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors
On 29/07/2012 06:08, Ben Finney wrote: Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com writes: On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: I highly recommend the use of notepad++. If anyone knows of a better text editor for Windows please let me know :) I highly recommend not tying your editor skills to a single OS, especially one as ornery for programmers as Windows. I'll advocate for Vim which is crazy-powerful and works nicely on just about any platform I touch. Others will advocate for Emacs, which I can't say fits the way my brain works but it's also powerful and loved by many. Right. I'm in Tim's position, but reversed: my preference is for Emacs but Vim is a fine choice also. They are mature, well-supported with regular updates and a massive library of plug-ins for different uses, have a huge community to help you, and work on all major programming OSen. The ubiquity of these two platforms makes a worthwhile investment of time spent in learning at least one if not both. I use both frequently in my work for different things, and they are good for pretty much any task involving manipulation of text. Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry about text editors again. Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger. This thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using TPU on VMS. Have we got any VMS aficionados here? -- Cheers. Mark Lawrence. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors
On 07/29/12 05:28, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 29/07/2012 06:08, Ben Finney wrote: Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com writes: Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry about text editors again. Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger. This thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using TPU on VMS. Have we got any VMS aficionados here? Though I'm personally far more vitriolic about VMS vs $OS (had a few souring experiences with VMS in college) than I am regarding Vim vs. Emacs, you can get Vim for at least OpenVMS: http://www.vim.org/download.php#others I presume sources compile fairly well on other flavors of VMS if needed, and I'd expect Emacs can do likewise[1] -tkc [1] http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsOnVMS -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors
On Sun, 29 Jul 2012, python.l...@tim.thechases.com wrote: On 07/29/12 05:28, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 29/07/2012 06:08, Ben Finney wrote: Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com writes: Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry about text editors again. Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger. This thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using TPU on VMS. Have we got any VMS aficionados here? Though I'm personally far more vitriolic about VMS vs $OS (had a few souring experiences with VMS in college) than I am regarding Vim vs. Emacs, you can get Vim for at least OpenVMS: http://www.vim.org/download.php#others I presume sources compile fairly well on other flavors of VMS if needed, and I'd expect Emacs can do likewise[1] I used to use tpu (used to have piles of tpu macros..) and I first got used to emacs by using its tpu mode - I see that still exists so you can use emacs and pretend it is really tpu! Robert -- La grenouille songe..dans son château d'eau Links and things http://rmstar.blogspot.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors
On 29/07/2012 14:36, Robert Marshall wrote: On Sun, 29 Jul 2012, python.l...@tim.thechases.com wrote: On 07/29/12 05:28, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 29/07/2012 06:08, Ben Finney wrote: Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com writes: Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry about text editors again. Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger. This thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using TPU on VMS. Have we got any VMS aficionados here? Though I'm personally far more vitriolic about VMS vs $OS (had a few souring experiences with VMS in college) than I am regarding Vim vs. Emacs, you can get Vim for at least OpenVMS: http://www.vim.org/download.php#others I presume sources compile fairly well on other flavors of VMS if needed, and I'd expect Emacs can do likewise[1] I used to use tpu (used to have piles of tpu macros..) and I first got used to emacs by using its tpu mode - I see that still exists so you can use emacs and pretend it is really tpu! Robert Well knock me down with a feather, clevor Trevor[1], might have to give that a go, thanks. [1] Ian Dury and the Blockheads album New Boots and Panties, song called Clevor Trevor for those of you who clearly lack a suitable education :) -- Cheers. Mark Lawrence. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors
On 29 July 2012 06:36, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote: Just curious about your emacs+python usage. Do you use the emacs builtin python mode or the separate python-mode? Do you use pdb? Any other special setups? One thing that I find very useful is to configure flymake to use pyflakes. Very useful to get feedback on unused imports / unused variables / undefined variables (which means you spot typos on variable names straight away). For instructions, see e.g. http://www.plope.com/Members/chrism/flymake-mode -- Arnaud -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors
On 29/07/2012 15:15, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 29/07/2012 14:36, Robert Marshall wrote: On Sun, 29 Jul 2012, python.l...@tim.thechases.com wrote: On 07/29/12 05:28, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 29/07/2012 06:08, Ben Finney wrote: Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com writes: Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry about text editors again. Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger. This thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using TPU on VMS. Have we got any VMS aficionados here? Though I'm personally far more vitriolic about VMS vs $OS (had a few souring experiences with VMS in college) than I am regarding Vim vs. Emacs, you can get Vim for at least OpenVMS: http://www.vim.org/download.php#others I presume sources compile fairly well on other flavors of VMS if needed, and I'd expect Emacs can do likewise[1] I used to use tpu (used to have piles of tpu macros..) and I first got used to emacs by using its tpu mode - I see that still exists so you can use emacs and pretend it is really tpu! Robert Well knock me down with a feather, clevor Trevor[1], might have to give that a go, thanks. [1] Ian Dury and the Blockheads album New Boots and Panties, song called Clevor Trevor for those of you who clearly lack a suitable education :) There appears to be some confusion about the spelling, but it might be Clevor Trever. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)
On 28/07/2012 16:51, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I highly recommend the use of notepad++. If anyone knows of a better text editor for Windows please let me know :) My current preference is SciTE, available on Linux and Windows both. It's configured using Lua, has lexers (and thus syntax highlighters and auto-indenters) for a huge list of languages (including Python, or I wouldn't mention it), and isn't RAM-hungry. It's not bug-free (but what isn't), and has a few limitations (eg it only really supports UTF-8), but I've found it excellent as both text editor and pseudo-IDE. ChrisA I use emacs, which is also available for windows (http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/windows/ et al) As my work requires mixing between windows, various *NIXes, GUIs and terminals, having a common text editor across all is fantastically useful. ~Andrew -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors
On 2012-07-29, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger. This thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using TPU on VMS. Have we got any VMS aficionados here? It's been a long time, but I used eve/tpu as my main editor for several years back when I did embedded SW development on VMS. I was an ex-Unix user, so I used DECShell a lot -- even though it was painfully slow. The entire Unix philosophy is based on the assumption that process creation is inexpensive, and I was told process creation on VMS was _very_ expensive, so Bourne shell scripts that would have taken second under Unix took minutes under VMS. -- Grant -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I highly recommend the use of notepad++. If anyone knows of a better text editor for Windows please let me know :) My current preference is SciTE, available on Linux and Windows both. It's configured using Lua, has lexers (and thus syntax highlighters and auto-indenters) for a huge list of languages (including Python, or I wouldn't mention it), and isn't RAM-hungry. It's not bug-free (but what isn't), and has a few limitations (eg it only really supports UTF-8), but I've found it excellent as both text editor and pseudo-IDE. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)
On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 01:51:48 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I highly recommend the use of notepad++. If anyone knows of a better text editor for Windows please let me know :) My current preference is SciTE, available on Linux and Windows both. It's configured using Lua, has lexers (and thus syntax highlighters and auto-indenters) for a huge list of languages (including Python, or I wouldn't mention it), and isn't RAM-hungry. It's not bug-free (but what isn't), and has a few limitations (eg it only really supports UTF-8), but I've found it excellent as both text editor and pseudo-IDE. ChrisA I like Geany at present, although i have not tried too many others -- Nothing increases your golf score like witnesses. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)
On Saturday, July 28, 2012 5:51:48 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote: ... and has a few limitations (eg it only really supports UTF-8), ?! It's my daily plain text editor (Windows) since ? (I don't remember). And I'm using it for utf-8, utf-16 and cp1252 (my favorite coding) without problems. jmf -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)
On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 3:43 AM, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, July 28, 2012 5:51:48 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote: ... and has a few limitations (eg it only really supports UTF-8), ?! It's my daily plain text editor (Windows) since ? (I don't remember). And I'm using it for utf-8, utf-16 and cp1252 (my favorite coding) without problems. Okay, I must have misunderstood something then. Was under the impression that it had some internals where it worked only in bytes, and that things wouldn't always work if you used anything other than UTF-8. It's not an issue for me, since UTF-8 suits me just fine, so I've never looked into it. Apologies for the Elmer FUD! ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: I highly recommend the use of notepad++. If anyone knows of a better text editor for Windows please let me know :) I'll advocate for Vim which is crazy-powerful and works nicely on just about any platform I touch. Others will advocate for Emacs, which I can't say fits the way my brain works but it's also powerful and loved by many. The ubiquity of these two platforms makes a worthwhile investment of time spent in learning at least one if not both. -tkc -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)
On Saturday, July 28, 2012 7:47:24 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 3:43 AM, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, July 28, 2012 5:51:48 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote: ... and has a few limitations (eg it only really supports UTF-8), ?! It's my daily plain text editor (Windows) since ? (I don't remember). And I'm using it for utf-8, utf-16 and cp1252 (my favorite coding) without problems. Okay, I must have misunderstood something then. Was under the impression that it had some internals where it worked only in bytes, and that things wouldn't always work if you used anything other than UTF-8. It's not an issue for me, since UTF-8 suits me just fine, so I've never looked into it. Apologies for the Elmer FUD! ChrisA No problem. Important is just to say SciTE works fine with many codings. Having said this, I think there is probably some confusion between the scintilla widget and the editor, the application, SciTE using scintilla. In the Python world, the ported scintilla widget, wxStyleTextCtrl in wxPython and QScintilla in PyQt are working internally in utf-8 and the api's, at least in wxPython, work with a byte arithmetic (annoying). If I used the PyQt version, I do not remember the status with Qt. I prefer the QPlainTextEdit widget. For info: http://scintilla.org/ jmf -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)
On 7/28/2012 1:23 PM, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote: For info: http://scintilla.org/ Just did a quick check on scintilla. This looks like a single file editor. Is there a project like capability in there that I did not notice ? Thanks hamilton -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)
On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 7:43 AM, hamilton hamil...@nothere.com wrote: On 7/28/2012 1:23 PM, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote: For info: http://scintilla.org/ Just did a quick check on scintilla. This looks like a single file editor. Is there a project like capability in there that I did not notice ? Scintilla is a text editing widget; SciTE is a Scintilla-based Text Editor (and is by the same author). The editor wraps up Scintilla with facilities for handling multiple files simultaneously (multiple buffers/tabbed display/whatever you want to call it). ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)
On 7/28/2012 4:42 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 7:43 AM, hamilton hamil...@nothere.com wrote: On 7/28/2012 1:23 PM, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote: For info: http://scintilla.org/ Just did a quick check on scintilla. This looks like a single file editor. Is there a project like capability in there that I did not notice ? Scintilla is a text editing widget; SciTE is a Scintilla-based Text Editor (and is by the same author). The editor wraps up Scintilla with facilities for handling multiple files simultaneously (multiple buffers/tabbed display/whatever you want to call it). ChrisA Ok, so the answer is no. Thanks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)
On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 12:33 PM, hamilton hamil...@nothere.com wrote: Ok, so the answer is no. In terms of the editor, it's fine; you need only worry about Scintilla itself if you're aiming to incorporate it in your own program. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors
Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com writes: On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: I highly recommend the use of notepad++. If anyone knows of a better text editor for Windows please let me know :) I highly recommend not tying your editor skills to a single OS, especially one as ornery for programmers as Windows. I'll advocate for Vim which is crazy-powerful and works nicely on just about any platform I touch. Others will advocate for Emacs, which I can't say fits the way my brain works but it's also powerful and loved by many. Right. I'm in Tim's position, but reversed: my preference is for Emacs but Vim is a fine choice also. They are mature, well-supported with regular updates and a massive library of plug-ins for different uses, have a huge community to help you, and work on all major programming OSen. The ubiquity of these two platforms makes a worthwhile investment of time spent in learning at least one if not both. I use both frequently in my work for different things, and they are good for pretty much any task involving manipulation of text. Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry about text editors again. -- \“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more | `\ robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument | _o__) than others.” —Douglas Adams | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Text editors
On Jul 29, 10:08 am, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote: Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com writes: On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: I highly recommend the use of notepad++. If anyone knows of a better text editor for Windows please let me know :) I would have bet Mark was ribbing the folks on this list. Maybe you were not Mark? [Well you did say notepad++ not notepad] But to get a bit more serious... I highly recommend not tying your editor skills to a single OS, especially one as ornery for programmers as Windows. I'll advocate for Vim which is crazy-powerful and works nicely on just about any platform I touch. Others will advocate for Emacs, which I can't say fits the way my brain works but it's also powerful and loved by many. Right. I'm in Tim's position, but reversed: my preference is for Emacs but Vim is a fine choice also. They are mature, well-supported with regular updates and a massive library of plug-ins for different uses, have a huge community to help you, and work on all major programming OSen. The ubiquity of these two platforms makes a worthwhile investment of time spent in learning at least one if not both. I use both frequently in my work for different things, and they are good for pretty much any task involving manipulation of text. Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry about text editors again. Just curious about your emacs+python usage. Do you use the emacs builtin python mode or the separate python-mode? Do you use pdb? Any other special setups? How about ipython? [Personal note: Ive been using and teaching python with emacs for over 10 years now. But I am getting increasing 'funny looks' for not (for example) using eclipse.] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
