Re: Python for embedded systems?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Aloha! On 2011:02:24 08:04 , Rafe Kettler wrote: It's not a matter of language maturity, Python is very mature, it's a matter of design. Python is a high-level, garbage-collected, interpreted language, and that's not the ideal type of language for embedded systems. Ideal, no. But usable and good to get a solution quckly, yes. I've developed and deployed a camera control system based on PC/104 running GNU/Linux and the application written in Python. The PC/104 fit the bill (money, size and power consumption) and the application performance in Python was more than required. Writing it in Python using modern tools talking to std devices in Linux made the development a snap. And the code is portable and easy to change. For really small embedded systems (8/16-bit MCUs) and hard RT-constraints Python is not a very good approach for the final system. But if you can fit a (possibly stripped down) standard OS such as Linux including Python, you get a very nice environment for a lot of embedded applications. Embedded is all about cost and hard constraints. But today you get quite a lot of compute resources for little money and in small form factors. Running applications on the bare metal, applications written in C is not always the optimal way to meet cost, technical and market requirements. Also, Python is a very nice language to model and explore the application and the design to be implemented. I use Python to build models of IP cores to be integrated into ASICs and FPGAs. Not using MyHDL for the actual core generation (yet) though. - -- Med vänlig hälsning, Yours Joachim Strömbergson - Alltid i harmonisk svängning. Kryptoblog - IT-säkerhet på svenska http://www.strombergson.com/kryptoblog -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1mD4QACgkQZoPr8HT30QFgGwCg6fl4sTlUTF6ICSdC0nGy25hY NBgAnRjY+sZTFO3mjVsS0lsIjCz57qoK =FPHr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python for embedded systems?
Apologies if this has been asked; I haven't yet Googled the archives. From a brief email conversation, Guido pointed me to this newsgroup to ask the following questions: Is Python 'mature' enough to be considered the primary language for embedded systems? Is the performance there for real-time applications (eg avionics, real-time control systems) or is it still more suitable ...as a glue language, used to combine components written in C++ ? And further: Has anyone tried to shorten development time when porting code to a new embedded hardware platform, by trying to convert legacy code (C/C+ +/Ada) to Python? I'm currently thinking that Python isn't there yet but certainly would like to hear any feedback. Your input is greatly appreciated; thanks! - Paulito -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for embedded systems?
Paulito paul...@gmail.com writes: Is Python 'mature' enough to be considered the primary language for embedded systems? Is the performance there for real-time applications (eg avionics, real-time control systems) or is it still more suitable ...as a glue language, used to combine components written in C++ ? IMO it's not a matter of maturity, but of design features. If you mean hard real time, Python really is not suited to that type of application, which has rather specialized requirements. Python is surely used in some soft realtime applications since lots of embedded devices these days are fairly standard linux boxes under the skin. And further: Has anyone tried to shorten development time when porting code to a new embedded hardware platform, by trying to convert legacy code (C/C+ +/Ada) to Python? That would be a re-implementation rather than a port. Closest thing I can think of is Ericsson switching from C++ to Erlang in its phone switches. I'm currently thinking that Python isn't there yet but certainly would like to hear any feedback. Do you have a specific application in mind? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for embedded systems?
On Feb 23, 6:53 pm, Paulito paul...@gmail.com wrote: Apologies if this has been asked; I haven't yet Googled the archives. From a brief email conversation, Guido pointed me to this newsgroup to ask the following questions: Is Python 'mature' enough to be considered the primary language for embedded systems? Is the performance there for real-time applications (eg avionics, real-time control systems) or is it still more suitable ...as a glue language, used to combine components written in C++ ? And further: Has anyone tried to shorten development time when porting code to a new embedded hardware platform, by trying to convert legacy code (C/C+ +/Ada) to Python? I'm currently thinking that Python isn't there yet but certainly would like to hear any feedback. Your input is greatly appreciated; thanks! - Paulito Python is probably not the best choice for embedded systems because it lacks fine control over hardware, something that C and C++ have in bunches. Also, it doesn't perform well enough to be considered for situations where resources are at a premium (think microcontrollers). Could you develop in Python for a platform like Android or iPhone? Yeah, they have the space, memory, and CPU to run Python stuff. But on weaker CPUs and less memory, Python would be a poor choice. It's not a matter of language maturity, Python is very mature, it's a matter of design. Python is a high-level, garbage-collected, interpreted language, and that's not the ideal type of language for embedded systems. Rafe -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python for embedded systems development
Hi, Is there anyone using python for embedded systems development ? I have no idea where to start with. Google was of little help. Will appreciate if someone could guide me on from where to start. Regards Vgnu -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for embedded systems with memory constraints
Hello, Using the best fit for Python will not be a problem, because Python makes allocations of lot of small size blocks.So those split blocks of small sizes are used by Python sometime. And what I observed from my investigation with the memory manager(MM) for Python is , with any MM we cannot eliminate fragmentation and even though Python is memory hungry I cannot allot some 50MB (or more) just for python application because it will add to the embedded system memory cost. So now I only see the solution to clear my memory pool and restart Python without restarting the system (i.e. no power cycle to hardware). I tried to do this when my memory pool is 60% used in these steps: 1) Py_Finalize( ) 2) Reset my Memory pool (i.e. free list links) 3) Then Restart Python by calling Py_Initialize(). But this resulted in Python crash during Py_Initialize(), where I found that the static variables within embedded Python source code are still holding some of the references to my memory pool. So now my question is how do I restart Python (i.e. reinitialize Python) without restarting whole system. Is there a way to reset/re-initilaize those static variables such that it will be possible to re-Initialize Python. Vishnu On 6/10/07, MRAB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 9, 1:33 pm, vishnu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Thanks Cameron for your suggestions. In fact I am using custom memory sub-allocator where I preallocate a pool of memory during initialization of my application and ensure that Python doesn't make any system mallocs later . With this arrangement, python seems to run out of preallocated memory (of 10MB) after running few simple scripts due to huge external fragmentation. My memory sub-allocator got a good design which uses the best-fit algorithm and coaelescing the adjacent blocks during each free call. If anybody out there used their own memory manager and ran Python without fragmentation , could provide some inputs on this. From what I remember, the best-fit algorithm isn't a good idea because unless the free block was exactly the right size you'd tend to get left with lots of small fragments. (Suppose that the best fit was a free block only 4 bytes bigger than what you want; what can you do with a free block of 4 bytes?) A worst-fit algorithm would leave larger free blocks which are more useful subsequently, but I think that the recommendation was next-fit (ie use the first free block that's big enough, starting from where you found the last one). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for embedded systems with memory constraints
En Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:59:19 -0300, vishnu [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: So now I only see the solution to clear my memory pool and restart Python without restarting the system (i.e. no power cycle to hardware). I tried to do this when my memory pool is 60% used in these steps: 1) Py_Finalize( ) 2) Reset my Memory pool (i.e. free list links) 3) Then Restart Python by calling Py_Initialize(). But this resulted in Python crash during Py_Initialize(), where I found that the static variables within embedded Python source code are still holding some of the references to my memory pool. So now my question is how do I restart Python (i.e. reinitialize Python) without restarting whole system. Is there a way to reset/re-initilaize those static variables such that it will be possible to re-Initialize Python. Ouch... I think this should not happen, but anyway I don't know if this was a design principle. One should inspect all Python code to locate all static variable references... Maybe you could instrument your allocator to see which references are still held? C extensions may be problematic too - there is no way to uninitialize them, and nothing forbids an extension to hold a reference to any object. -- Gabriel Genellina -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for embedded systems with memory constraints
Hi, Thanks Cameron for your suggestions. In fact I am using custom memory sub-allocator where I preallocate a pool of memory during initialization of my application and ensure that Python doesn't make any system mallocs later . With this arrangement, python seems to run out of preallocated memory (of 10MB) after running few simple scripts due to huge external fragmentation. My memory sub-allocator got a good design which uses the best-fit algorithm and coaelescing the adjacent blocks during each free call. If anybody out there used their own memory manager and ran Python without fragmentation , could provide some inputs on this. Thanks in advance. On 6/7/07, Cameron Laird [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], vishnu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there, I am embedding python 2.5 on embedded system running on RTOS where I had strict memory constraints. As python is a huge malloc intensive application, I observed huge memory fragmentation in my system which is leading to out of memory after running few scripts. So I decided to re-initialise the python with out restarting the whole python. I tried to use Py_Finalise() after completion of each script , then call Py_Initialise as is done in below link. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-November/114253.html Which in every loop it causes a leak of 10K and after some iterations it leaks of 200K etc. After few more runs this crashes. I read some where this leak was solved in 2.5, but with 2.5 also I am having problems And also I found Py_Finalise does not completely cleanup the memory, So how do I re-initialise my memory pool? Does anybody faced this problem earlier and got any solution hack to run the python for a embedded system within own managed memory pool of say 10MB? Any help/ideas are greatly appreciated!. Thanks in advance. Your report is interesting and important--and surprising! I thought Python memory allocation is cleaner than you seem to be observing. I hope one of the core Python maintainers can address this. I haven't worked at this level recently enough to speculate on why it's happen- ing, nor will I soon be in a position to volunteer to research it on my own (although I'd eagerly contract to do so on a modestly paid basis). Depending on your schedule and technology, there are lots of technical fixes that might apply: A. quick-starting Python variations that encourage you to manage memory on a whole-process level; B. use of one of the many Python variants (even PyPy?) that might give you a more favorable memory profile; C. switch to Lua or Tcl as more easily embeddable alternative languages; D. custom memory allocator; ... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for embedded systems with memory constraints
On Jun 9, 1:33 pm, vishnu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Thanks Cameron for your suggestions. In fact I am using custom memory sub-allocator where I preallocate a pool of memory during initialization of my application and ensure that Python doesn't make any system mallocs later . With this arrangement, python seems to run out of preallocated memory (of 10MB) after running few simple scripts due to huge external fragmentation. My memory sub-allocator got a good design which uses the best-fit algorithm and coaelescing the adjacent blocks during each free call. If anybody out there used their own memory manager and ran Python without fragmentation , could provide some inputs on this. From what I remember, the best-fit algorithm isn't a good idea because unless the free block was exactly the right size you'd tend to get left with lots of small fragments. (Suppose that the best fit was a free block only 4 bytes bigger than what you want; what can you do with a free block of 4 bytes?) A worst-fit algorithm would leave larger free blocks which are more useful subsequently, but I think that the recommendation was next-fit (ie use the first free block that's big enough, starting from where you found the last one). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for embedded systems with memory constraints
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], vishnu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there, I am embedding python 2.5 on embedded system running on RTOS where I had strict memory constraints. As python is a huge malloc intensive application, I observed huge memory fragmentation in my system which is leading to out of memory after running few scripts. So I decided to re-initialise the python with out restarting the whole python. I tried to use Py_Finalise() after completion of each script , then call Py_Initialise as is done in below link. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-November/114253.html Which in every loop it causes a leak of 10K and after some iterations it leaks of 200K etc. After few more runs this crashes. I read some where this leak was solved in 2.5, but with 2.5 also I am having problems And also I found Py_Finalise does not completely cleanup the memory, So how do I re-initialise my memory pool? Does anybody faced this problem earlier and got any solution hack to run the python for a embedded system within own managed memory pool of say 10MB? Any help/ideas are greatly appreciated!. Thanks in advance. Your report is interesting and important--and surprising! I thought Python memory allocation is cleaner than you seem to be observing. I hope one of the core Python maintainers can address this. I haven't worked at this level recently enough to speculate on why it's happen- ing, nor will I soon be in a position to volunteer to research it on my own (although I'd eagerly contract to do so on a modestly paid basis). Depending on your schedule and technology, there are lots of technical fixes that might apply: A. quick-starting Python variations that encourage you to manage memory on a whole-process level; B. use of one of the many Python variants (even PyPy?) that might give you a more favorable memory profile; C. switch to Lua or Tcl as more easily embeddable alternative languages; D. custom memory allocator; ... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for embedded systems with memory constraints
Who else is using python (programmers, scientists, finance)? Me! Graduated in fine arts. Python is what I do when I am fed up with all those colors. Much easier to manufacture sense with. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python for embedded systems with memory constraints
Hi there, I am embedding python 2.5 on embedded system running on RTOS where I had strict memory constraints. As python is a huge malloc intensive application, I observed huge memory fragmentation in my system which is leading to out of memory after running few scripts. So I decided to re-initialise the python with out restarting the whole python. I tried to use Py_Finalise() after completion of each script , then call Py_Initialise as is done in below link. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-November/114253.html Which in every loop it causes a leak of 10K and after some iterations it leaks of 200K etc. After few more runs this crashes. I read some where this leak was solved in 2.5, but with 2.5 also I am having problems And also I found Py_Finalise does not completely cleanup the memory, So how do I re-initialise my memory pool? Does anybody faced this problem earlier and got any solution hack to run the python for a embedded system within own managed memory pool of say 10MB? Any help/ideas are greatly appreciated!. Thanks in advance. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
J Is there a Python packaging that is specifically for J embedded systems? ie, very small and configurable so the J user gets to select what modules to install? J For Linux-based embedded systems in particular? J I'm thinking of running it on the Linksys's Linux-based open J source router WRT54G. It has 4MB flash and 16MB RAM. I think J another model has 16MB flash. Any possibilities of running J Python on these systems? You can run Python on the NSLU2 (Slug) http://www.nslu2-linux.org/ sw packages: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Unslung/Packages the best (IMHO) firmware: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/DebianSlug/HomePage -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
Carl J. Van Arsdall wrote: This raises a good question. Is there a need for python to change somewhat to work better in an embedded profile? When I asked this question last on python-dev, there was exactly one response, and that was yes, it needs to change. The natural question then is in what way?. To this, the answer was surprising: It needs better support for cross-compilation. Apparently, cross-compiling Python is very painful, and I guess cross-compiling distutils-based packages even more so. Contributions in that direction are welcome. Regards, Martin -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wrote: To: python-list@python.org Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:36 PM Subject: Re: Python for Embedded Systems? | Grant Edwards wrote: | On 2006-07-14, Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Is there a Python packaging that is specifically for | embedded systems? ie, very small and configurable so the | user gets to select what modules to install? | | For Linux-based embedded systems in particular? | | I'm thinking of running it on the Linksys's Linux-based open | source router WRT54G. It has 4MB flash and 16MB RAM. I think | another model has 16MB flash. Any possibilities of running | Python on these systems? | | | A few years back there was a deeply embedded python project, | but it's been dead for quite a while: | | http://www.tucs.fi/magazin/output.php?ID=2000.N2.LilDeEmPy | http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/1999-August/000157.html | | | This raises a good question. Is there a need for python to change | somewhat to work better in an embedded profile? Are there many people | in the community interested in using python for embedded projects? | I for one would be interested in using it - if it can be made small enough - I do not see it helping me with the nitty gritty of getting a system running on bare metal, as the low level stuff in a small system is still best done in assembler - but if there is a display and some sort of keyboard and you can stick to character based stuff it will ease the application part of the work a lot - its a natural for doing things like logging and simple transactions - and if the hardware is strong enough to get IP running - then it will open up the systems to be web based... It will also be of use as you could prototype on a PC - emulators and simulators of small systems are mostly a pain as it takes a lot of effort to describe the actual hardware before these are useful... Small in this context is an eight bit processor (like an 80x1 | x = 3, 5 ) with some tricks done in the hardware to expand the native 16 bit address space to address say half a Meg of battery backed up static ram as data space, with about 62k of code space available for the interpreter and the custom OS to run in - (Harvard architecture, not von Neumann) - These processors have lately been improved from the original about half a MIP to now give sustained performance of better than 10 MIPS - So they may just be able to cripple along doing the interpreting - But its *Quite a Challenge* to fit the interpreter in, though... It is easily possible to expand these processor's address space to 24 bits - that is 16 Meg - and it may be a better approach to make a 'Virtual Processor' to run the python stuff - is there a definition for that sort of thing, akin to Java's Virtual Processor? - It would be a better approach, as the resultant higher level work would be more portable - to port to another class of processor, you need merely write the Virtual Machine - in whatever Language takes your fancy... What is the minimum set of instructions and structure needed to make a simplistic Python? - does anybody know? Might just be a pipe dream... - Hendrik van Rooyen -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
Jack a écrit : If Python is not the best candidate for embedded systems because of the size, what (scripting) language would you recommend? PHP may fit but I don't quite like the language. Anything else? Loa is small but it does not seem to be powerful enough. You mean Lua ? Not powerful enough ? What do you mean by that ? Lua is great IMHO. Sure it does not come with thousands of libraries, but the language design is extremely clean, the language constructs powerful and the footprint very small. 16kloc of C code can't hurt your embedded device can they ? ;) Please tell us what kind of limitation you find in Lua ... Cheers, SB -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
H J van Rooyen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What is the minimum set of instructions and structure needed to make a simplistic Python? - does anybody know? There have been lots of Lisps for the PDP-11 and comparable machines. Python's runtime semantics are close enough to Lisp that you could probably get something Python-like running in that kind of machine, maybe not exactly Python. You would probably want to use small-Lisp implementation techniques like BIBOP (big bag of pages, Google for it) memory organization. But I don't think any of those Lisps were really all that useful. They were written mostly as toys. SIOD was a well known very small Scheme interpreter that you might like to play with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIOD -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SIOD was a well known very small Scheme interpreter that you might like to play with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIOD Here's another one that I like. I haven't actually used it but studied it for possible integration in an embedded project that I worked on but that got cancelled. It seems very good for this type of thing. The runtime system is just 20k bytes or so: http://hedgehog.oliotalo.fi/ Picolisp is also pretty neat but maybe not aimed the same way: http://software-lab.de/down.html Take the challenge: it is very impressive. Of course they tailored it to Pico Lisp's capabilities, but you can see the challenge problem is very sensible, and the Pico Lisp solution is much easier to get to than a Python solution: http://software-lab.de/succ.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
Jack wrote: Is there a Python packaging that is specifically for embedded systems? ie, very small and configurable so the user gets to select what modules to install? You might also look at the gumstix embedded system, Linux running on an ARM processor in an extremely small form factor. (http://www.gumstix.net/) And here is a page with a link to a gumstix Python binary: http://cs.gmu.edu/~eclab/projects/robots/flockbots/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Python I'm trying this out as soon as I get home! -- Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
Jack wrote: Is there a Python packaging that is specifically for embedded systems? ie, very small and configurable so the user gets to select what modules to install? For Linux-based embedded systems in particular? I'm thinking of running it on the Linksys's Linux-based open source router WRT54G. It has 4MB flash and 16MB RAM. I think another model has 16MB flash. Any possibilities of running Python on these systems? Here's another recently announced hobbyist microcontroller system: http://makezine.com/controller/ Uses Atmel SAM7X processor, ARM7, 32-bit, 256K Flash, 64K SRAM, up to 55MHz. On-board Ethernet and CAN (Controller Area Network - wireless) Various I/O blocks and on-board sensors ~US$150 Start shipping Aug 1st. No Python binary yet, but cross-platform tools are available. The guys at this magazine could really get a jump with a Python build. Here's a related site for this kit: www.uCHobby.com -- Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
On-board Ethernet and CAN (Controller Area Network - wireless) Ooops, my bad - CAN is not wireless, it is a serial network specifically for linking with other ucontroller boards. I was thinking of the onboard Bluetooth of the gumstix boards. -- Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
Yes, I mean Lua, not Loa :-p Lua is a nice language. Like you said, it doesn't have many libraries as Python does. Plus, it's still evolving and the libraries are changing. I found a few functions not working last time I tried kepler libraries. It's good for embedded systems though because of its small footprint. Extensions implemented in C makes it possible that the installation size doesn't blow up when new stuff is added, like in Python. But I still like Python better for its power and for the style of the language itself. And I was hoping to find a Python implementation that bears the principles of Lua to make it suitable for embedded systems :) PHP may fit but I don't quite like the language. Anything else? Loa is small but it does not seem to be powerful enough. You mean Lua ? Not powerful enough ? What do you mean by that ? Lua is great IMHO. Sure it does not come with thousands of libraries, but the language design is extremely clean, the language constructs powerful and the footprint very small. 16kloc of C code can't hurt your embedded device can they ? ;) Please tell us what kind of limitation you find in Lua ... Cheers, SB -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I mean Lua, not Loa :-p Lua is a nice language. Like you said, it doesn't have many libraries as Python does. Plus, it's still evolving and the libraries are changing. I found a few functions not working last time I tried kepler libraries. It's good for embedded systems though because of its small footprint. Extensions implemented in C makes it possible that the installation size doesn't blow up when new stuff is added, like in Python. But I still like Python better for its power and for the style of the language itself. And I was hoping to find a Python implementation that bears the principles of Lua to make it suitable for embedded systems :) PHP may fit but I don't quite like the language. Anything else? Loa is small but it does not seem to be powerful enough. You mean Lua ? Not powerful enough ? What do you mean by that ? Lua is great IMHO. Sure it does not come with thousands of libraries, but the language design is extremely clean, the language constructs powerful and the footprint very small. 16kloc of C code can't hurt your embedded device can they ? ;) Please tell us what kind of limitation you find in Lua ... . . . PHP is about as bad a choice as there is for this domain. Let's talk about it some other time. The usual contestants are Forth, Lua, Tcl, and various Lisps. Python could play quite well at least in some situations, but entirely no one has done much since 1.5.2 times (which doesn't seem to me like a long time). If you're to the point of sniffing at Lua's relative poverty of libraries, you need to detail your requirements more pre- cisely. What's small and embedded to some people is a full-featured host to others. Generally speaking, yes, Lua is still advancing significantly, or, from a different per- spective, it hasn't stabilized yet. The point is that there's necessarily no Pareto optimizer which is simultaneously smallest, fastest, newest, most mature, most Unicode-aware, most featureful, lowest-level, highest-level, ... That's why there's a point to the engineering we do here. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . . . This raises a good question. Is there a need for python to change somewhat to work better in an embedded profile? Are there many people in the community interested in using python for embedded projects? . . . Yes and no. Python could thrive for the next decade while utterly surrendering the small-and-embedded domain to Forth, Lua, Tcl, Scheme, and so on, so, no, there's no *need* for a TinyPython. On the other hand, yes, there are at least several of us with an interest and occasional opportunities for Python in such applications. While URL: http://www.engcorp.com/acf/RecentChanges looks dormant, it was set up to serve just such constituencies, and we might yet breathe life into it--just as any of the other several TinyPython initiatives might, or might not, revivify. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron Laird) writes: Yes and no. Python could thrive for the next decade while utterly surrendering the small-and-embedded domain to Forth, Lua, Tcl, Scheme, and so on, so, no, there's no *need* for a TinyPython. On the other hand, yes, there are at least several of us with an interest and occasional opportunities for Python in such applications. I think we should see what happens with PyPy, which might be easier to target at embedded platforms than CPython is. Main thing needed would be a static compiler--I haven't followed PyPy enough to know if it relies on having Psyco at runtime. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron Laird) writes: Yes and no. Python could thrive for the next decade while utterly surrendering the small-and-embedded domain to Forth, Lua, Tcl, Scheme, and so on, so, no, there's no *need* for a TinyPython. On the other hand, yes, there are at least several of us with an interest and occasional opportunities for Python in such applications. I think we should see what happens with PyPy, which might be easier to target at embedded platforms than CPython is. Main thing needed would be a static compiler--I haven't followed PyPy enough to know if it relies on having Psyco at runtime. PyPy indeed presents exciting prospects. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python for Embedded Systems?
Is there a Python packaging that is specifically for embedded systems? ie, very small and configurable so the user gets to select what modules to install? For Linux-based embedded systems in particular? I'm thinking of running it on the Linksys's Linux-based open source router WRT54G. It has 4MB flash and 16MB RAM. I think another model has 16MB flash. Any possibilities of running Python on these systems? If Python is not the best candidate for embedded systems because of the size, what (scripting) language would you recommend? PHP may fit but I don't quite like the language. Anything else? Loa is small but it does not seem to be powerful enough. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
On 2006-07-14, Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a Python packaging that is specifically for embedded systems? ie, very small and configurable so the user gets to select what modules to install? For Linux-based embedded systems in particular? I'm thinking of running it on the Linksys's Linux-based open source router WRT54G. It has 4MB flash and 16MB RAM. I think another model has 16MB flash. Any possibilities of running Python on these systems? A few years back there was a deeply embedded python project, but it's been dead for quite a while: http://www.tucs.fi/magazin/output.php?ID=2000.N2.LilDeEmPy http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/1999-August/000157.html -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! My BIOLOGICAL ALARM at CLOCK just went off... It visi.comhas noiseless DOZE FUNCTION and full kitchen!! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
Grant Edwards wrote: On 2006-07-14, Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a Python packaging that is specifically for embedded systems? ie, very small and configurable so the user gets to select what modules to install? For Linux-based embedded systems in particular? I'm thinking of running it on the Linksys's Linux-based open source router WRT54G. It has 4MB flash and 16MB RAM. I think another model has 16MB flash. Any possibilities of running Python on these systems? A few years back there was a deeply embedded python project, but it's been dead for quite a while: http://www.tucs.fi/magazin/output.php?ID=2000.N2.LilDeEmPy http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/1999-August/000157.html This raises a good question. Is there a need for python to change somewhat to work better in an embedded profile? Are there many people in the community interested in using python for embedded projects? -- Carl J. Van Arsdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Build and Release MontaVista Software -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
Jack wrote: ...snip... If Python is not the best candidate for embedded systems because of the size, what (scripting) language would you recommend? TCL is fairly popular in the embedded space. Fairly small footprint. The syntax is not to everyone's taste. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
Here's an URL to a project that appears to be dated from 2004 -- http://skreak.com/wrt54g/python.php. Jack wrote: Is there a Python packaging that is specifically for embedded systems? ie, very small and configurable so the user gets to select what modules to install? For Linux-based embedded systems in particular? I'm thinking of running it on the Linksys's Linux-based open source router WRT54G. It has 4MB flash and 16MB RAM. I think another model has 16MB flash. Any possibilities of running Python on these systems? If Python is not the best candidate for embedded systems because of the size, what (scripting) language would you recommend? PHP may fit but I don't quite like the language. Anything else? Loa is small but it does not seem to be powerful enough. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
Jack wrote: Is there a Python packaging that is specifically for embedded systems? ie, very small and configurable so the user gets to select what modules to install? For Linux-based embedded systems in particular? I'm thinking of running it on the Linksys's Linux-based open source router WRT54G. It has 4MB flash and 16MB RAM. I think another model has 16MB flash. Any possibilities of running Python on these systems? If Python is not the best candidate for embedded systems because of the size, what (scripting) language would you recommend? PHP may fit but I don't quite like the language. Anything else? Loa is small but it does not seem to be powerful enough. python on palmos - latest version was below 1.5.2 - but is quite interesting has small fotoprint, is fast and usefull but isn't maintained by years mak -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Embedded Systems?
Or Python on the Zaurus, which I used to develop a wifi CRM app on a group of refurb Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 units. Here's a link to the Python implementation on the Z -- http://starship.python.net/~hinsen/Zaurus/. Grzegorz Makarewicz wrote: Jack wrote: Is there a Python packaging that is specifically for embedded systems? ie, very small and configurable so the user gets to select what modules to install? For Linux-based embedded systems in particular? I'm thinking of running it on the Linksys's Linux-based open source router WRT54G. It has 4MB flash and 16MB RAM. I think another model has 16MB flash. Any possibilities of running Python on these systems? If Python is not the best candidate for embedded systems because of the size, what (scripting) language would you recommend? PHP may fit but I don't quite like the language. Anything else? Loa is small but it does not seem to be powerful enough. python on palmos - latest version was below 1.5.2 - but is quite interesting has small fotoprint, is fast and usefull but isn't maintained by years mak -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
