Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 12/21/2015 9:05 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 12:19 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>>>  wrote:
 Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 21/12/2015 07:51, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> But it's been clearly stated that .format is not going to do away
>>> with percent formatting, and all language of "new-style formatting"
>>> has been removed so as not to cause confusion.
>> Wishful thinking, twice.
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/dev/969817
 What is this supposed to be evidence of?
>>> Proof that percent formatting isn't planned for deprecation, much less
>>> removal.
>> Then it would have failed to accomplish that.
>>
>>> There is strong support for it in certain quarters of python-dev. […]
>> There *was*.  The referred thread is from 2012-02.  It is 2015-12.
> 
> Nothing has changed since except for
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0498/
> already added to 3.6.

Interesting – and disturbing that for lack of deprecation of the other two 
ways we would then have *three* ways.

But irrelevant evidence, again.

[I do not understand why that is so hard to understand: In order to 
substantiate the original statement, it has to be shown *what the statement 
says*: that it would have been “clearly stated that .format is not going to 
do away with percent formatting, and all language of "new-style formatting" 
has been removed so as not to cause confusion.”.  Everything and anything 
short of showing that *fails* to constitute *relevant* evidence for that 
statement.]

> If the 2.7 doc still implies that % -formatting is deprecated, it should
> changed as in the 3.x docs.

IBTD.  What about

,-
| 
| […]
| There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.

?

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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Ian Kelly]

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
 wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>>  wrote:
>
> It is supposed to be an attribution *line*, _not_ an attribution novel.
> Also, the “(was: …)” part is to be removed from the Subject header field
> value to complete the change of subject in a thread.

Better yet, please don't change the Subject header for trivial reasons
in the first place. This isn't just a Usenet group; it's also a
mailing list, and many MUAs rely on the Subject header for proper
threading.
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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Ian Kelly]

On Dec 21, 2015 4:55 PM, "Terry Reedy"  wrote:
>
> Nothing has changed since except for
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0498/
> already added to 3.6.

https://xkcd.com/927/
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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Chris Angelico]

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Ian Kelly  wrote:
> On Dec 21, 2015 4:55 PM, "Terry Reedy"  wrote:
>>
>> Nothing has changed since except for
>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0498/
>> already added to 3.6.
>
> https://xkcd.com/927/

The 927ness of it was discussed at length prior to implementation. PEP
498 isn't really another competing string format operation; it's more
like an alternative expression format. It's more in competition with
this:

msg = "The sum of " + str(x) + " and " + str(y) + " is " + str(x+y) + "."

which puts the interpolated expressions at the "correct place" in the
string - but at the cost of being verbose, messy, and error-prone.
Compare:

msg = f"The sum of {x} and {y} is {x+y}."

(Yes, there's a slight semantic difference; the latter uses format()
rather than str(). But otherwise, it's compiled to the "".join(...)
equivalent of the repeated concatenation example.)

ChrisA
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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 09:27 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

[...]
> No, it is not.  Your logic is flawed, too, pseudonymous nobody with the
> unreadable posting style.

If its unreadable, how do you know what it says?

"PointedEars", you're doing a marvellous job of acting like a self-righteous
and hypocritical buffoon who constantly complains about the most trivial
matters when committed by others, while ignoring that you do the same sort
of things.

You whinge about others using "fake names", whatever that means, when you
yourself go by a fake name "PointedEars".

You whinge about people's attribution lines extending over two virtual
lines, as if that matters, while ignoring the fact that your sig is twice
as long as is polite.

You whinge about people posting "dumb questions", while continuing to post
dumb answers.

When you make an error of logic, your response is never to accept that you
were wrong, but you just compound the error by insisting that the other
party is the one with flawed logic.

So, Thomas, if that is your real name, get over yourself. I don't know what
small pond you have come from, but you're in the big ocean of the Internet
now, and you're no longer the smartest person around. Admit it when you
make a mistake, and stop being such so whiny, prissy and unhelpful.

Or, if you can't do that, just go away and whine on some other newsgroup
where they might be impressed by your astonishing lack of social know-how.

Thank you.


-- 
Steven

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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Terry Reedy]

On 12/21/2015 9:05 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

Chris Angelico wrote:


On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 12:19 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
 wrote:

Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 21/12/2015 07:51, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

Chris Angelico wrote:

But it's been clearly stated that .format is not going to do away with
percent formatting, and all language of "new-style formatting" has
been removed so as not to cause confusion.

Wishful thinking, twice.

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/dev/969817

What is this supposed to be evidence of?


Proof that percent formatting isn't planned for deprecation, much less
removal.


Then it would have failed to accomplish that.


There is strong support for it in certain quarters of python-dev. […]


There *was*.  The referred thread is from 2012-02.  It is 2015-12.


Nothing has changed since except for
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0498/
already added to 3.6.

If the 2.7 doc still implies that % -formatting is deprecated, it should 
changed as in the 3.x docs.


--
Terry Jan Reedy


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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Chris Angelico]

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> Nothing has changed since except for
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0498/
> already added to 3.6.

And the flip side of the argument is
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0461/ in 3.5, expanding on percent
formatting. Both are useful, both are supported.

ChrisA
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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 21/12/2015 07:51, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> But it's been clearly stated that .format is not going to do away with
>>> percent formatting, and all language of "new-style formatting" has been
>>> removed so as not to cause confusion.
>>
>> Wishful thinking, twice.
> 
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/dev/969817

What is this supposed to be evidence of?

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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 12:19 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>  wrote:
>> Mark Lawrence wrote:
>>> On 21/12/2015 07:51, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
 Chris Angelico wrote:
> But it's been clearly stated that .format is not going to do away with
> percent formatting, and all language of "new-style formatting" has
> been removed so as not to cause confusion.
 Wishful thinking, twice.
>>> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/dev/969817
>> What is this supposed to be evidence of?
> 
> Proof that percent formatting isn't planned for deprecation, much less
> removal.

Then it would have failed to accomplish that.

> There is strong support for it in certain quarters of python-dev. […]

There *was*.  The referred thread is from 2012-02.  It is 2015-12.

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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Chris Angelico]

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 12:19 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
 wrote:
> Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
>> On 21/12/2015 07:51, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Chris Angelico wrote:
 But it's been clearly stated that .format is not going to do away with
 percent formatting, and all language of "new-style formatting" has been
 removed so as not to cause confusion.
>>>
>>> Wishful thinking, twice.
>>
>> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/dev/969817
>
> What is this supposed to be evidence of?

Proof that percent formatting isn't planned for deprecation, much less
removal. There is strong support for it in certain quarters of
python-dev. It's a fully supported language feature, not an old and
outmoded feature that is kept solely for backward compatibility (as
"old-style classes" are in Python 2.7 - you can still use them, but as
of Python 3, only "new-style classes" exist).

ChrisA
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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Chris Angelico]

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 1:05 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
 wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 12:19 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>>  wrote:
>>> Mark Lawrence wrote:
 On 21/12/2015 07:51, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>> But it's been clearly stated that .format is not going to do away with
>> percent formatting, and all language of "new-style formatting" has
>> been removed so as not to cause confusion.
> Wishful thinking, twice.
 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/dev/969817
>>> What is this supposed to be evidence of?
>>
>> Proof that percent formatting isn't planned for deprecation, much less
>> removal.
>
> Then it would have failed to accomplish that.
>
>> There is strong support for it in certain quarters of python-dev. […]
>
> There *was*.  The referred thread is from 2012-02.  It is 2015-12.

Then show some evidence that python-dev has changed in viewpoint.

ChrisA
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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Chris Angelico wrote:

> […] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn […] wrote:
>> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> […] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn […] wrote:
 Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 21/12/2015 07:51, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> But it's been clearly stated that .format is not going to do away
>>> with percent formatting, and all language of "new-style formatting"
>>> has been removed so as not to cause confusion.
>> Wishful thinking, twice.
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/dev/969817
 What is this supposed to be evidence of?
>>> Proof that percent formatting isn't planned for deprecation, much less
>>> removal.
>> Then it would have failed to accomplish that.
>> 
>>> There is strong support for it in certain quarters of python-dev. […]
>> There *was*.  The referred thread is from 2012-02.  It is 2015-12.
> 
> Then show some evidence that python-dev has changed in viewpoint.

And why would I do that?  I have claimed no such thing.

Your attempt to shift the burden of proof is unsuccessful.

BTW, which part of “attribution line” did you not understand?

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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Mark Lawrence]

On 21/12/2015 07:51, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

Chris Angelico wrote:


But it's been clearly stated that .format is not going to do away with
percent formatting, and all language of "new-style formatting" has been
removed so as not to cause confusion.


Wishful thinking, twice.



http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/dev/969817

--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Random832]

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn writes:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
CA Proof that percent formatting isn't planned for deprecation, much less
CA removal.
TL>>> Then it would have failed to accomplish that.
CA There is strong support for it in certain quarters of python-dev. […]
TL>>> There *was*.  The referred thread is from 2012-02.  It is 2015-12.
CA>> Then show some evidence that python-dev has changed in viewpoint.
TL> And why would I do that?  I have claimed no such thing.

Yes, you have.  Your claim that evidence from 2012 is no longer
relevant is an implicit claim of precisely that.

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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Mark Lawrence]

On 21/12/2015 14:19, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

Chris Angelico wrote:


[…] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn […] wrote:

Chris Angelico wrote:

[…] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn […] wrote:

Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 21/12/2015 07:51, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

Chris Angelico wrote:

But it's been clearly stated that .format is not going to do away
with percent formatting, and all language of "new-style formatting"
has been removed so as not to cause confusion.

Wishful thinking, twice.

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/dev/969817

What is this supposed to be evidence of?

Proof that percent formatting isn't planned for deprecation, much less
removal.

Then it would have failed to accomplish that.


There is strong support for it in certain quarters of python-dev. […]

There *was*.  The referred thread is from 2012-02.  It is 2015-12.


Then show some evidence that python-dev has changed in viewpoint.


And why would I do that?  I have claimed no such thing.

Your attempt to shift the burden of proof is unsuccessful.

BTW, which part of “attribution line” did you not understand?



Would you please go away as your continued trolling is getting tedious.

TIA.

--
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what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Chris Angelico]

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
 wrote:
>> Percent formatting isn't going away. There's no need to tell people to
>> abandon it in favour of .format(), unless they actually need a feature
>> of .format().
>
> ,-
> |
> | […]
> | This method of string formatting is the new standard in Python 3, and
> | should be preferred to the % formatting described in  | Operations> in new code.

That text doesn't exist in the 3.x documentation:

https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#str.format

There's a somewhat weaker recommendation here:

https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#printf-style-string-formatting

But it's been clearly stated that .format is not going to do away with
percent formatting, and all language of "new-style formatting" has
been removed so as not to cause confusion.

ChrisA
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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status (was: How to ignore error with anon-zero exit status)

[Ganesh Pal]

> (Polite people would *ask* a *question*.)

I am a polite person , sorry if the wording was harsh.

> (“_a non-zero_”, with a space in-between.  “anon” can be misunderstood as
an
> abbreviation for “anonymous”.)

It was a typo.

> Most simple solution for this: Do not use a loop.  More "complicated"
> solution: Use an “if” statement.

I want to stick on to loop and try modifying the code with if. Should I use
some comparison operation with if  ?
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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>  wrote:

It is supposed to be an attribution *line*, _not_ an attribution novel.  
Also, the “(was: …)” part is to be removed from the Subject header field 
value to complete the change of subject in a thread.

>> Python 2.6 (why are you using the oldest Python minor version?)
>> introduced string.format(), so you should use that instead of the old
>> string format operator (“%”):
>>
>>   logging.error("Can't run {0}; got {1} ({2:d})!".format(cmd, err, ret))
>>
>> 
> 
> Percent formatting isn't going away. There's no need to tell people to
> abandon it in favour of .format(), unless they actually need a feature
> of .format().

,-
| 
| […]
| This method of string formatting is the new standard in Python 3, and 
| should be preferred to the % formatting described in  in new code.

>> On the other hand, you do not need the format operator to begin with:
>>
>>   logging.error("Can't run %s; got %s (%d)!", cmd, err, ret)
>>
>> 
> 
> See? Another good reason to hang onto percent formatting.

Your logic is flawed.

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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Ganesh Pal wrote:

[repaired Subject, restored attribution]

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Most simple solution for this: Do not use a loop.  More "complicated"
>> solution: Use an “if” statement.
> 
> I want to stick on to loop and try modifying the code with if. Should I
> use some comparison operation with if  ?

Yes.

Please see, again, 

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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status (was: How to ignore error with anon-zero exit status)

[Chris Angelico]

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
 wrote:
> Python 2.6 (why are you using the oldest Python minor version?) introduced
> string.format(), so you should use that instead of the old string format
> operator (“%”):
>
>   logging.error("Can't run {0}; got {1} ({2:d})!".format(cmd, err, ret))
>
> 

Percent formatting isn't going away. There's no need to tell people to
abandon it in favour of .format(), unless they actually need a feature
of .format().

> On the other hand, you do not need the format operator to begin with:
>
>   logging.error("Can't run %s; got %s (%d)!", cmd, err, ret)
>
> 
>

See? Another good reason to hang onto percent formatting.

ChrisA
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Re: Ignore error with non-zero exit status

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>  wrote:
>>> Percent formatting isn't going away. There's no need to tell people to
>>> abandon it in favour of .format(), unless they actually need a feature
>>> of .format().
>>
>> ,-
>> |
>> | […]
>> | This method of string formatting is the new standard in Python 3, and
>> | should be preferred to the % formatting described in > | Operations> in new code.
> 
> That text doesn't exist in the 3.x documentation:
> 
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#str.format

Of course it does not.  That would be stupid.

> There's a somewhat weaker recommendation here:
> 
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#printf-style-string-formatting

AISB.

> But it's been clearly stated that .format is not going to do away with
> percent formatting, and all language of "new-style formatting" has been
> removed so as not to cause confusion.

Wishful thinking, twice.
 
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