Re: Is Python like VB?
Cappy2112 wrote: Eric3 has been compiled for Windows, without Cygwin and Without a commercial license Can it be downloaded from somewhere? (where from?) Or is it forbidden by the license? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: You know of an assembly language that does Object Oriented? My... The world has been waiting with bated breath for that. Hey, IIRC, old Turbo Assembler (tasm, by Borland) had those. Much of it was still manual, by it supported semi-automatic vtables and such :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 14:36:02 +0100, Ivan Voras [EMAIL PROTECTED] declaimed the following in comp.lang.python: Hey, IIRC, old Turbo Assembler (tasm, by Borland) had those. Much of it was still manual, by it supported semi-automatic vtables and such :) I'd suspect through a rather elaborate macro capability. Probably... don't remember any more, but it was prominent in the manuals :) The standard assembler used in my college classes didn't even understand the native instruction set of the machine -- until you LD std,1 AFA(1),'04'x, CF(2),AF(1) cool, these look like microinstructions :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:02:48 -0800, Tim Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why on earth would you choose to reimplement your software in a different language, rather than just do the simple version upgrade? A lot of developers and companies are pondering this issue. The end-of-lifing of Classic VB is a wake-up call for many, who take this opportunity to check whether it's a good idea to keep using proprietary tools which can be discontinued any time if the manufacturer figures he can get away with forcing his customers to upgrade. From there, it's like playing the stock exchange: Is it more risky and financially sound to follow Microsoft and switch from VB Classic to VB.Net, or to jump ship, and use open-source solutions? At this point, I would advise the OP, if possible, to just keep working on the Classic VB version of his application while developing small side-projects in VB.Net to master this new language/tool, and once 80% of hosts have the .Net framework, it'll be time to check which route seems more promising. Joe. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Mike Cox wrote: Would Python meet our requirements? I need to make lots of GUI applications (message boxes, forms, etc.) and do the underlying business logic too. Python is my favorite language and I recommend that you experiment with it. However, if you want the quickest replacement for VB I would look at REALbasic. It has a nice IDE with an integrated GUI designer and it is generally easy for a VBer to learn. You can even convert existing VB apps as well. It won a Jolt Productivity award this year (along with Python 2.4). http://www.realsoftware.com/index.php -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Tim Roberts wrote: Mike Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you may or may not know, Microsoft is discontinuing Visual Basic in favor of VB.NET and that means I need to find a new easy programming language. I heard that Python is an interpreted language similar to VB. This statement is a little bit silly. VB.NET is an interpreted language which is practically indistinguishable from the old VB. Why on earth would you choose to reimplement your software in a different language, rather than just do the simple version upgrade? It is a bit OT for a python group, but calling VB.NET virtually indistinguishable from VB isn't fair to either language. The differences between them are so significant that many VB developers have taken to calling VB.Net visual fred instead ( http://vb.mvps.org/vfred/breaks.asp ). VB.Net is both more powerful and less convienent than VB. You are right that VBA isn't being discontinued yet. My own interest in learning python is to find a replacement for Excel VBA. I'm a mathematician who likes to throw quick programs together for things like statistical simulations. I liked the ability to get functioning code quickly in VBA, together with the ability to easily generate graphs of the results, etc., but I finally got tired of the slow speed and verbose syntax. I'm hoping that Python (as packaged by Enthought together with various numerical and graphing modules) will be an appropriate replacement. -scattered -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 07:40:54 -0700, at lycos.com@bag.python.org Jim Smith jbzsmith wrote: Mike Cox wrote: Would Python meet our requirements? I need to make lots of GUI applications (message boxes, forms, etc.) and do the underlying business logic too. Python is my favorite language and I recommend that you experiment with it. However, if you want the quickest replacement for VB I would look at REALbasic. It has a nice IDE with an integrated GUI designer and it is generally easy for a VBer to learn. You can even convert existing VB apps as well. It won a Jolt Productivity award this year (along with Python 2.4). I have heard Gambas to be a very good option too: http://gambas.sourceforge.net/ -- Swaroop C H Blog: http://www.swaroopch.info Book: http://www.byteofpython.info -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
On 18 Mar 2005 07:22:05 -0800, scattered [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tim Roberts wrote: Mike Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you may or may not know, Microsoft is discontinuing Visual Basic in favor of VB.NET and that means I need to find a new easy programming language. I heard that Python is an interpreted language similar to VB. This statement is a little bit silly. VB.NET is an interpreted language which is practically indistinguishable from the old VB. Why on earth would you choose to reimplement your software in a different language, rather than just do the simple version upgrade? It is a bit OT for a python group, but calling VB.NET virtually indistinguishable from VB isn't fair to either language. The differences between them are so significant that many VB developers have taken to calling VB.Net visual fred instead ( http://vb.mvps.org/vfred/breaks.asp ). VB.Net is both more powerful and less convienent than VB. You are right that VBA isn't being discontinued yet. My own interest in learning python is to find a replacement for Excel VBA. I'm a mathematician who likes to throw quick programs together for things like statistical simulations. I liked the ability to get functioning code quickly in VBA, together with the ability to easily generate graphs of the results, etc., but I finally got tired of the slow speed and verbose syntax. I'm hoping that Python (as packaged by Enthought together with various numerical and graphing modules) will be an appropriate replacement. -scattered -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list I agree, VB.net is enough of a difference that I've found a lot of developers who only develop in VB6 get really tripped up in it for a while. Not to mention the framework you have access to is huge, leanring your way around that is a chore in itself. It takes a significant amount of effort to feel as productive in it as vb6. Especially if you've never been exposed to huge frameworks like VCL or Java or the .net framework. To imply that the transition from vb6 to vb.net is anything less than a significant effort is misleading to say the least. My .02 as a recovering vb6 com/dcom/asp programmer stuck on more than a few vb.net projects. -- Thomas G. Willis http://paperbackmusic.net -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
scattered wrote: You are right that VBA isn't being discontinued yet. My own interest in learning python is to find a replacement for Excel VBA. I'm a mathematician who likes to throw quick programs together for things like statistical simulations. I liked the ability to get functioning code quickly in VBA, together with the ability to easily generate graphs of the results, etc., but I finally got tired of the slow speed and verbose syntax. I'm hoping that Python (as packaged by Enthought together with various numerical and graphing modules) will be an appropriate replacement. Were you aware that OpenOffice.org version 2.0, which is due out soon (beta is available for download), can have python macros, as well as javascript and StarOffice Basic macros? Steve -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:45:10 -0500, Tom Willis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:20:19 +, Steve Horsley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: scattered wrote: You are right that VBA isn't being discontinued yet. My own interest in learning python is to find a replacement for Excel VBA. I'm a mathematician who likes to throw quick programs together for things like statistical simulations. I liked the ability to get functioning code quickly in VBA, together with the ability to easily generate graphs of the results, etc., but I finally got tired of the slow speed and verbose syntax. I'm hoping that Python (as packaged by Enthought together with various numerical and graphing modules) will be an appropriate replacement. Were you aware that OpenOffice.org version 2.0, which is due out soon (beta is available for download), can have python macros, as well as javascript and StarOffice Basic macros? Steve -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list http://udk.openoffice.org/python/scriptingframework/index.html Damn that's hot! I am tingly :) -- Thomas G. Willis http://paperbackmusic.net Reply to self... The API however, smells more like java to me than python. Alas, I will happily use it for many of my needs. http://udk.openoffice.org/python/scriptingframework/dynamicDialog.py Perhaps OppenOffice.org 2.0 could be the postscript - pdf - text with the correct layout solution I've been hoping could replace a chain of very troublesome pieces of shareware. -- Thomas G. Willis http://paperbackmusic.net -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Steve Horsley wrote: Were you aware that OpenOffice.org version 2.0, which is due out soon (beta is available for download), can have python macros, as well as javascript and StarOffice Basic macros? Steve That looks promising, though not as tightly integrated as VBA is with Excel. For now I think I will stick to my goal of learning things like Chaco and wxPython. If I ever take the Linux plunge it's nice to know that OpenOffice is closing the gap with Excel as far as programmability is concerned. -scattered -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Tom Willis wrote: On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:45:10 -0500, Tom Willis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:20:19 +, Steve Horsley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Were you aware that OpenOffice.org version 2.0, which is due out soon (beta is available for download), can have python macros, as well as javascript and StarOffice Basic macros? http://udk.openoffice.org/python/scriptingframework/index.html Damn that's hot! I am tingly :) Reply to self... The API however, smells more like java to me than python. Alas, I will happily use it for many of my needs. IIRC, Sun significantly rewrote the scripting interface to StarOffice before they released the codebase to OpenOffice.org. It's hardly surprising to know that they did so in a very Java-centric way. And given limited resources (and presumably continued guidance from Sun in the form of Sun developers working on OO.o), it's not too surprising that OpenOffice hasn't changed that much. Jeff Shannon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:20:19 +, Steve Horsley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: scattered wrote: You are right that VBA isn't being discontinued yet. My own interest in learning python is to find a replacement for Excel VBA. I'm a mathematician who likes to throw quick programs together for things like statistical simulations. I liked the ability to get functioning code quickly in VBA, together with the ability to easily generate graphs of the results, etc., but I finally got tired of the slow speed and verbose syntax. I'm hoping that Python (as packaged by Enthought together with various numerical and graphing modules) will be an appropriate replacement. Were you aware that OpenOffice.org version 2.0, which is due out soon (beta is available for download), can have python macros, as well as javascript and StarOffice Basic macros? Steve -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list http://udk.openoffice.org/python/scriptingframework/index.html Damn that's hot! I am tingly :) -- Thomas G. Willis http://paperbackmusic.net -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Mike Cox wrote: As you may or may not know, Microsoft is discontinuing Visual Basic in favor of VB.NET and that means I need to find a new easy programming language. I heard that Python is an interpreted language similar to VB. VB is not interpreted. Sure! You can compile it to P-Code if you want to but most people compile to machine code (like C, C++, Assembler). You are confusing between static linking in C++ etc and mandatory dynamic linking with VB runtimes with interpreted languages. VB needs runtimes but is not interpreted generally. Python is NOT similar to VB. It is much better as a language. VB is optimized to what you are doing currently. Python is a more general purpose language. This means that it doesn't have all the hard stuff like pointers, classes and templates like C, C++ and assembly language. Python has classes. C and Assembly do not have classes and templates. If I remember correctly, VB could have pointers too (Address function?). Where I work we use Microsoft Office with a lot of customization using Visual Basic. I would like to switch to Python to do it since VB is being discontinued. Would Python meet our requirements? I need to make lots of GUI applications (message boxes, forms, etc.) and do the underlying business logic too. You will probably find migrating to VB.NET easier than to Python if you have to do WYSIWYG data bound form design. VB.NET is quite a nice language (I personally prefer C#). Much nicer than VB6. Python is better but it may not meet YOUR needs infrastructure wise. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
VB has a much better IDE than the IDE's for Python, although Eric3 is one of the best, and is absolutely free. There is no binary distribution for Eric3 on MS Windows. The OP sounds like he is an exclusively windows programmer. While we are on topic, is there no one in the Python open source community who has a commercial license to Qt for Windows and can make a binary distribution for Eric3 for MS Windows? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:33:36 -0800, Mike Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where I work we use Microsoft Office with a lot of customization using Visual Basic. I would like to switch to Python to do it since VB is being discontinued. Would Python meet our requirements? I need to make lots of GUI applications (message boxes, forms, etc.) and do the underlying business logic too. I wouldn't advise you to switch to Python from VB if... 1. the installer must be downloaded from the Net, so must be kept as small as possible (GUI layers like wxWidgets of PyGTK add several megabytes to your app) 2. you're used to sophisticated GUI designers like VB or Delphi, and want something as polished 3. you expect an IDE as rich as those two proprietary tools (including IntelliSense, intigrated GUI designer, compiler, etc.) 4. your app uses third-party components that are not available to platforms other than VB (or Delphi) After checking out the tools currently available, I got to the conclusion that Python is a very fine tool for text-based apps or moderately-sophisticated GUI apps like BitTorrent. For more demanding GUI apps, I would advise you stick to VB until the .Net framework stabilizes and trickles down to being available on 80% of hosts, at which point you can safely trade horses (VB.Net does solve some of the oddities of VB Classic.) In an ideal world, we'd have open-source development tools as rich as VB or Delphi, but at this point, I haven't found any that doesn't fall short on any of the points above (probably because the work involved is underevaluated, and just not doable without a constant and sufficient revenue stream.) Just my opinion, Joe. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
James wrote: You will probably find migrating to VB.NET easier than to Python if you have to do WYSIWYG data bound form design. VB.NET is quite a nice language (I personally prefer C#). Much nicer than VB6. Python is better but it may not meet YOUR needs infrastructure wise. This is more a strategic decision than a technical one. MS has proven that it uses and forces its developers community to maximize their own profits and spread of technologies. Personally I dont want to be forced (Where do you want me to go today?) Who guarantees that VB.NET will not have the same tragic kismet that VB6 had? Open Source is totally different and thats the real difference between VB and python. As long as their are users and working code, there will be a community around an OSS tools project. This is not true for commercial tools, as perfectly proven by MS with VB6. Its users are crying and MS is deaf because of strategic MS considerations. http://news.com.com/Developers+slam+Microsofts+Visual+Basic+plan/2100-1007_3-5615331.html?tag=nl http://news.com.com/Microsoft+walks+VB+tight+rope/2100-1007_3-5620821.html?tag=nefd.lede -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Maybe you should ask : Is VB like Python ( remark the ) On 17 Mar 2005 09:45:22 +0200, Ville Vainio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cappy == Cappy2112 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Cappy VB has a much better IDE than the IDE's for Python, Cappy although Eric3 is one of the best, and is absolutely free. Eric3 is not easily available for win32, due to current state of Qt licensing (will change with Qt4 I think). Cappy There are many gui toolkits/frameworks for Python, but the Cappy foreunners are pyQT, wxPython, pyGTK, and TK/Tkinter. On windows it might make sense to choose wxPython, though I've heard some good stuff about new versions of pyGTK as well. People coming from VB background probably also appreciate the ability to draw the UI in pointclick style: http://gazpacho.sicem.biz/ http://wxglade.sourceforge.net/ Unfortunately these seem to still be a tad rough around the edges... -- Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Regards, Groleo! .''`. # touch universe : :' : # chmod +rwx universe `. `'` # ./universe `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Before we discuss this any further, I suggest that you guys take a look at OP's posts in comp.os.linux.advocacy. I think we all regulars here know where VB and Python stand. Let's not take bait on this one. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Mike Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... As you may or may not know, Microsoft is discontinuing Visual Basic in favor of VB.NET and that means I need to find a new easy programming language. I heard that Python is an interpreted language similar to VB. This means that it doesn't have all the hard stuff like pointers, classes and templates like C, C++ and assembly language. Where I work we use Microsoft Office with a lot of customization using Visual Basic. I would like to switch to Python to do it since VB is being discontinued. Would Python meet our requirements? I need to make lots of GUI applications (message boxes, forms, etc.) and do the underlying business logic too. Thanks in advance. The macro language used within Microsoft Office products is called VBA - Visual Basic for Applications. It's similar to but not the same as VB - Visual Basic. You message hinted that it might be VBA, and not VB, that you use. If it really is VBA, then that MAY be unaffected by the drop of support for VB. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Mike Cox wrote: As you may or may not know, Microsoft is discontinuing Visual Basic in favor of VB.NET and that means I need to find a new easy programming language. I heard that Python is an interpreted language similar to VB. This means that it doesn't have all the hard stuff like pointers, classes and templates like C, C++ and assembly language. Where I work we use Microsoft Office with a lot of customization using Visual Basic. I would like to switch to Python to do it since VB is being discontinued. Would Python meet our requirements? I need to make lots of GUI applications (message boxes, forms, etc.) and do the underlying business logic too. I would either stick with the old Visual Basic since plenty of other people will keep using it, or go ahead and switch to VB.NET or C#. Especially if you are used to the Windows Form Designer in Visual Studio, I would not recommend switching to Python. It has no equivalent, and thus Python would be much harder for you to use. We have almost finished Windows form designer support in SharpDevelop IDE for boo, a .NET language similar to Python. But still in your case I'd just use VB.NET since you are familiar with VB and all .NET languages are pretty comparable. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
We have almost finished Windows form designer support in SharpDevelop IDE for boo, a .NET language similar to Python. But still in your case I'd just use VB.NET since you are familiar with VB and all .NET languages are pretty comparable. Wow! That's great news. I saw a few days ago an old post that said you guys were waiting for the new .NET as implementing this kind of thing is simpler in it. Anyway. Great work. This probably makes Boo the first non-MS .NET language to have form designer support. Correct? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Eric3 has been compiled for Windows, without Cygwin and Without a commercial license -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Hi! People coming from VB background probably also appreciate the ability to draw the UI in pointclick style: http://gazpacho.sicem.biz/ http://wxglade.sourceforge.net/ Unfortunately these seem to still be a tad rough around the edges... wxGlade is a port of Glade (which is designed for GTK+) to wx. But Glade is still the best and can be used very well with PyGTK (I prefer using PyGTK on Windows than wxPython). http://glade.gnome.org greets, Marek -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Mike, I've got a very good news for you which, to my surprise, nobody mentioned in this thread: Right now, Micrsoft is developing a .NET version of Python ( http://www.ironpython.com ). It has been started as an open source project by Jim Hugunin, which was later hired by Microsoft to keep on working on it. So soon, you'll have an excellent language like Python (which is much better, easier amd powerful than Visual Basic) and you'll be able to create GUI programs with Visual Studio, just like you use to do with VB6. Meanwhile, you can start playing with the language (which is still in pre-alpha state, version 0.6). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Mike Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you may or may not know, Microsoft is discontinuing Visual Basic in favor of VB.NET and that means I need to find a new easy programming language. I heard that Python is an interpreted language similar to VB. This statement is a little bit silly. VB.NET is an interpreted language which is practically indistinguishable from the old VB. Why on earth would you choose to reimplement your software in a different language, rather than just do the simple version upgrade? Where I work we use Microsoft Office with a lot of customization using Visual Basic. The VB in Microsoft Office is not being discontinued. -- - Tim Roberts, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providenza Boekelheide, Inc. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
First of all, discontinuing VB doesn't mean you have to stop using it. I worked on a project which was compiled with Visual C 1.52, for many years after it was not supported. The project is used by nearly every engineer at the company where I work. We are still devleoping the project I work on now in VB6, and have no reason to bail. For new projects, it would make sense to look into VB.net or some alternative. Python has classes, but not templates. However, you don't have to use classes in your program, but it will make life easier if you learned them. Python's classes are not as complicated as C++, it's a much better language to learn from. VB has classes too, and if you haven't used them in your programs, then there's a good chance you can program that way with Python too, but I wouldn't make a point of it. VB has a much better IDE than the IDE's for Python, although Eric3 is one of the best, and is absolutely free. VB's ide is it's strongpoint, not the language itsself. If you need to do Gui's then it is extremely usefull to learn the basics of classes, your code will be much simpler in the long run. There are many gui toolkits/frameworks for Python, but the foreunners are pyQT, wxPython, pyGTK, and TK/Tkinter. You don't have to worry about pointers though :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Would Python meet our requirements? Yes and no. Because Python is a very high-level language and dynamically typed it is easy to learn. Python doesn't make use of pointers but you are able to write object-oriented code (as opposed to just being object-friendly like Visual Basic is). You will find that on its own you won't be able to do any Office macro scripting although there are several packages that will give you added functionality like access to Com+ objects (see win32 modules by Mark Hammond). Now, this may require more work than using VBA but it *is* doable. The com portion of the win32 modules can enable one to create even a macro-language unto itself! Python is very powerful. There are many 3rd party modules and frameworks (Zope, CherryPy). Also, there are many GUI toolkits available for it (wxWindows, GTK, QT, Tk and on and on) and you can also use it as a wrapper to write and compile to Java bytecode (see Jython). The problem for you, however, is it may or may *not* meet every requirement. For that you'll have to find out for yourself. I suggest downloading Python and giving the Python tutorial a whirl and then taking a look at other Python-related stuff: [For programmers:] http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html [For non-programmers:] http://honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/ [Win32 stuff:] http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/ [Tk 'Tkinter':] http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/ [wxPython:]http://www.wxpython.org/ [PyGTK:] http://www.pygtk.org/ Purusing these links will give you a very good idea of whether Python is right for you. Naturally we'd all like to say 'YES Python is good for you!' but you have to investigate for yourself. Good luck! Harlin Seritt -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Cappy == Cappy2112 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Cappy VB has a much better IDE than the IDE's for Python, Cappy although Eric3 is one of the best, and is absolutely free. Eric3 is not easily available for win32, due to current state of Qt licensing (will change with Qt4 I think). Cappy There are many gui toolkits/frameworks for Python, but the Cappy foreunners are pyQT, wxPython, pyGTK, and TK/Tkinter. On windows it might make sense to choose wxPython, though I've heard some good stuff about new versions of pyGTK as well. People coming from VB background probably also appreciate the ability to draw the UI in pointclick style: http://gazpacho.sicem.biz/ http://wxglade.sourceforge.net/ Unfortunately these seem to still be a tad rough around the edges... -- Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
