Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
On May 2, 5:19 pm, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 3, 2:15 am, Kaz Kylheku [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads. Thanks. The only off-topic posting in this thread is your own (and now this one). You are making a very clumsy entrance into these newsgroups. So far you have started two cross-posted threads. The first is only topical in comp.lang.python (how to emulate macros in Python). This one is topical in neither one, since it is about Microsoft DLR. It's quite possible that some Lisp and Python programmers have a strong interest in Microsoft DLR. Those people who have such an interest (regardless of whether they are Lisp and Python user also) and who like to read Usenet will almost certainly find a Microsoft DLR newsgroup for reading about and discussing Microsoft DLR. Do you not agree? Also note that there is very rarely, if ever, any good reason for starting a thread which is crossposted among comp.lang.* newsgroups, even if the subject contains elements that are topical in all of them (yours does not). Begone. You are childishly beckoning Usenet etiquette to be gone so that you may do whatever you wish. But I trust that you will not, out of spite for being rebuked, turn a few small mistakes into a persistent style. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kaz Kylheku [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 2, 5:19 pm, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 3, 2:15 am, Kaz Kylheku [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads. Thanks. The only off-topic posting in this thread is your own (and now this one). You are making a very clumsy entrance into these newsgroups. ... Go away. TonyN.:'[EMAIL PROTECTED] ' http://www.georgeanelson.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
On May 4, 5:27 pm, Kaz Kylheku [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 2, 5:19 pm, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 3, 2:15 am, Kaz Kylheku [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads. Thanks. The only off-topic posting in this thread is your own (and now this one). You are making a very clumsy entrance into these newsgroups. So far you have started two cross-posted threads. The first is only topical in comp.lang.python (how to emulate macros in Python). This one is topical in neither one, since it is about Microsoft DLR. It's quite possible that some Lisp and Python programmers have a strong interest in Microsoft DLR. Those people who have such an interest (regardless of whether they are Lisp and Python user also) and who like to read Usenet will almost certainly find a Microsoft DLR newsgroup for reading about and discussing Microsoft DLR. Do you not agree? Given that the DLR is a dynamic language framework, abstracted out of the IronPython 1.0 release, and that it also runs on top of the core CLR shipped with SilverLight meaning that for the first time sandboxed Python scripts can run in the browser... It would seem entirely on topic for a Python newsgroup very on- topic... Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/index.shtml Also note that there is very rarely, if ever, any good reason for starting a thread which is crossposted among comp.lang.* newsgroups, even if the subject contains elements that are topical in all of them (yours does not). Begone. You are childishly beckoning Usenet etiquette to be gone so that you may do whatever you wish. But I trust that you will not, out of spite for being rebuked, turn a few small mistakes into a persistent style. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
Fuzzyman wrote: On May 4, 5:27 pm, Kaz Kylheku [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 2, 5:19 pm, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 3, 2:15 am, Kaz Kylheku [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads. Thanks. The only off-topic posting in this thread is your own (and now this one). You are making a very clumsy entrance into these newsgroups. So far you have started two cross-posted threads. The first is only topical in comp.lang.python (how to emulate macros in Python). This one is topical in neither one, since it is about Microsoft DLR. It's quite possible that some Lisp and Python programmers have a strong interest in Microsoft DLR. Those people who have such an interest (regardless of whether they are Lisp and Python user also) and who like to read Usenet will almost certainly find a Microsoft DLR newsgroup for reading about and discussing Microsoft DLR. Do you not agree? Given that the DLR is a dynamic language framework, abstracted out of the IronPython 1.0 release, and that it also runs on top of the core CLR shipped with SilverLight meaning that for the first time sandboxed Python scripts can run in the browser... It would seem entirely on topic for a Python newsgroup very on- topic... Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/index.shtml Also note that there is very rarely, if ever, any good reason for starting a thread which is crossposted among comp.lang.* newsgroups, even if the subject contains elements that are topical in all of them (yours does not). Begone. You are childishly beckoning Usenet etiquette to be gone so that you may do whatever you wish. But I trust that you will not, out of spite for being rebuked, turn a few small mistakes into a persistent style. Thank goodness! I was getting ready to filter the DLR crap out. If it's from microsoft, it got to be crap. sph -- HEX: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
On May 4, 10:39 pm, Steven Howe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fuzzyman wrote: [snip ...] You are childishly beckoning Usenet etiquette to be gone so that you may do whatever you wish. But I trust that you will not, out of spite for being rebuked, turn a few small mistakes into a persistent style. Thank goodness! I was getting ready to filter the DLR crap out. If it's from microsoft, it got to be crap. Yeah - I mean what does Jim hugunin know about Python anyway... Bound to be crap... Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/index.shtml sph -- HEX: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
On May 4, 6:12 pm, Fuzzyman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 4, 5:27 pm, Kaz Kylheku [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 2, 5:19 pm, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 3, 2:15 am, Kaz Kylheku [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads. Thanks. The only off-topic posting in this thread is your own (and now this one). You are making a very clumsy entrance into these newsgroups. So far you have started two cross-posted threads. The first is only topical in comp.lang.python (how to emulate macros in Python). This one is topical in neither one, since it is about Microsoft DLR. It's quite possible that some Lisp and Python programmers have a strong interest in Microsoft DLR. Those people who have such an interest (regardless of whether they are Lisp and Python user also) and who like to read Usenet will almost certainly find a Microsoft DLR newsgroup for reading about and discussing Microsoft DLR. Do you not agree? Given that the DLR is a dynamic language framework, abstracted out of the IronPython 1.0 release, and that it also runs on top of the core CLR shipped with SilverLight meaning that for the first time sandboxed Python scripts can run in the browser... It would seem entirely on topic for a Python newsgroup very on- topic... Fuzzymanhttp://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/index.shtml Also note that there is very rarely, if ever, any good reason for starting a thread which is crossposted among comp.lang.* newsgroups, even if the subject contains elements that are topical in all of them (yours does not). Begone. You are childishly beckoning Usenet etiquette to be gone so that you may do whatever you wish. But I trust that you will not, out of spite for being rebuked, turn a few small mistakes into a persistent style. Indeed, the subject is absolutely on-topic. If can't talk about a so called Dynamic Languages Runtime in a pyhton mailing list, I wonder what it takes to be considered on-topic. Frankly, this on-topic/off-topic fascism I see in this list is pissing me off a little bit. I suggest reading this paragraph right from http://www.python.org/community/lists/: Pretty much anything Python-related is fair game for discussion, and the group is even fairly tolerant of off-topic digressions; there have been entertaining discussions of topics such as floating point, good software design, and other programming languages such as Lisp and Forth. Luis -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
Luis M. González wrote: Indeed, the subject is absolutely on-topic. If can't talk about a so called Dynamic Languages Runtime in a pyhton mailing list, I wonder what it takes to be considered on-topic. Frankly, this on-topic/off-topic fascism I see in this list is pissing me off a little bit. It's less on-topic for comp.lang.lisp, though, unless you want to perform in a measuring competition with the Lisp crowd whilst hearing how they did the very same thing as insert technology here way back in the 1950s. Despite the permissive licences - it'd be hard to slap a bad EULA on IronPython now - the whole thing demonstrates Microsoft's disdain for open standards as usual, but it remains on-topic for comp.lang.python, I guess. Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
On May 4, 11:28 pm, Paul Boddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luis M. González wrote: Indeed, the subject is absolutely on-topic. If can't talk about a so called Dynamic Languages Runtime in a pyhton mailing list, I wonder what it takes to be considered on-topic. Frankly, this on-topic/off-topic fascism I see in this list is pissing me off a little bit. It's less on-topic for comp.lang.lisp, though, unless you want to perform in a measuring competition with the Lisp crowd whilst hearing how they did the very same thing as insert technology here way back in the 1950s. Despite the permissive licences - it'd be hard to slap a bad EULA on IronPython now - the whole thing demonstrates Microsoft's disdain for open standards as usual, How do you work that out? It seems like a very positive move from them. As for SilverLight, there will probably be a fully open implementation by the end of the year. Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/index.shtml but it remains on-topic for comp.lang.python, I guess. Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
Fuzzyman wrote: On May 4, 11:28 pm, Paul Boddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Despite the permissive licences - it'd be hard to slap a bad EULA on IronPython now - the whole thing demonstrates Microsoft's disdain for open standards as usual, How do you work that out? It seems like a very positive move from them. Well, I don't think the W3C have been *particularly* effective in defining updated but still relevant standards and bringing them to my particular part of the big developer table of late, but I think the different open standards (XHTML, CSS, SVG and so on) have some mileage in them yet. I'd rather see moderately slow improvement to those standards than have some break-out group of vested interests (eg. WHATWG, Microsoft, Adobe) define some pseudo-standard that is even more tightly bound to their pet implementations than some of the stuff that gets a W3C blessing (which is how some people could perceive the W3C standards process). A permissive licence on the DLR technologies may be positive, but a cursory inspection of Microsoft's site doesn't reveal much in a similar vein for the Silverlight technologies. At least technologies like XUL (which is itself standards-polluting if used to deliver Web applications to the wider public) are the product of an open development process and have first-class open source implementations. Still, I'm a cynic about a lot of add-ons to the Web, and I think Sean McGrath makes a valid point: http://seanmcgrath.blogspot.com/2007_04_29_seanmcgrath_archive.html#9180786898079500068 Usability isn't always about duplicating the desktop paradigm in a browser window or encouraging the proliferation of cool but closed technologies which may reveal the glory of an application's rich user experience to those with the latest Microsoft updates, but which excludes other users for no good reason. As for SilverLight, there will probably be a fully open implementation by the end of the year. We'll see. It may depend on how well the Mono people can play catch-up with Microsoft, but given the sprinkling of potentially optional but undoubtedly patented technologies (WMA, MP3, and various others, I imagine), I doubt that fully open will ever really apply to any implementation. Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
Fuzzyman wrote: On May 2, 8:20 pm, Pascal Costanza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sturlamolden wrote: On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages, which they call DLR. It sits on top of the conventional .NET runtime (CLR) and provides services for dynamically typed languages like Python or Lisp (thus the cross-posting). Apparently is is distributed under a BSD-like open-source license. I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations are not too high. Has anyone looked at the DLR yet? What are your impression? So far, there is not a lot of information available. The only statement about the technology I have read so far is that the DLR is a thin layer on top of the CLR. This doesn't say a lot. So it's hard to tell whether this is a (good) marketing stunt or whether there are actual substantial improvement to the infrastructure. Well, they're now implementing four dynamic languages on top of the DLR - not just IronPython. * IronPython * IronRuby * Java Script * VBx (a dynamic version of VB) The DLR provides a dynamic type system and hosting environment for dynamic languages. The nice part is that the DLR runs on top of the 'Core CLR' which ships with Silverlight. This means that apps. that run in Silverlight are secure - so you can run an IronPython console in the browser... That still doesn't explain what DLR actually does. You can implement these languages on top of the JVM as well. You could implement them on any Turing-complete language, for that matter. The interesting question how well integrated such an implementation is. However, Jim Hugunin seems to be willing to give more details on his blog - the recent entry gives hints that there is indeed something interesting going on. I'm still waiting for the meat, though... Pascal -- My website: http://p-cos.net Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org Closer to MOP ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
In comp.lang.lisp sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with You are not allowed to publish .NET benchmarks. :-) -- Web (en): http://www.no-spoon.de/ -*- Web (de): http://www.frell.de/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
On Thu, 3 May 2007 09:20:22 +0200, Stefan Scholl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are not allowed to publish .NET benchmarks. :-) I'm pretty sure that only applied to their beta releases. -- Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny. Real email: (replace (subseq [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) edi) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
Pascal Costanza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That still doesn't explain what DLR actually does. You can implement these languages on top of the JVM as well. You could implement them on any Turing-complete language, for that matter. The interesting question how well integrated such an implementation is. However, Jim Hugunin seems to be willing to give more details on his blog - the recent entry gives hints that there is indeed something interesting going on. I'm still waiting for the meat, though... Watch the video he linked from his blog. In short, the implementation looks really well integrated. They start with an example (in Ruby) which creates a C# control and handles the event it generates to call some VB which retrieves a list of strings from the server and then passes it to a 3d animation written in JScript. All seamless, and all running in the local browser (which in the demo is Safari). The significant part of the DLR is (I think) that you can have a single object e.g. a string, but the methods available on that object vary according to the source file from which you are accessing the object. That means in pure Python code the string has python methods, but in Python using the CLR it gains the CLR methods. Presumably in Ruby code it looks like a Ruby string and so on, but (and this is what's new) it is the same object, not a bunch of language specific wrappers around the string type. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
On May 2, 8:22 pm, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages, which they call DLR. It sits on top of the conventional .NET runtime (CLR) and provides services for dynamically typed languages like Python or Lisp (thus the cross-posting). Apparently is is distributed under a BSD-like open-source license. I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations are not too high. Has anyone looked at the DLR yet? What are your impression? Jim Hugunin har written about the DLR in his blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/hugunin/ To cite one of the comments: Fuck this microsoft bollocks! You just stole the Lisp runtime ideas and fucked them up by stupid it salesman lingo. (Khrishna) Sturla Molden If I looked at every crup they promote I would be braindead by now.Just look at the DataMining articles at Microsoft research. Piece of junk IMHO. Antoan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations are not too high. The video of Jim Hugunin's talk from MIX has a slide showing how many Pystones you get on some different versions of Python. Of course that is just one benchmark and not terribly relevant to any real applications, but if you do get a similar speedup in real code 'Python that runs on steroids' won't be far from the truth. The claimed figures were 50,000 Pystones for CPython 2.5, and 101,000 for the latest IronPython. (He didn't mention it, but I believe Psyco will outdo both of these.) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
On 3 May 2007 12:13:49 GMT, Duncan Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations are not too high. The video of Jim Hugunin's talk from MIX has a slide showing how many Pystones you get on some different versions of Python. Of course that is just one benchmark and not terribly relevant to any real applications, but if you do get a similar speedup in real code 'Python that runs on steroids' won't be far from the truth. The claimed figures were 50,000 Pystones for CPython 2.5, and 101,000 for the latest IronPython. (He didn't mention it, but I believe Psyco will outdo both of these.) fwiw, my desktop happens to do 50,000 pystones with cpython 2.4 and 294,000 pystones with cpython 2.4 and psyco.full() Jean-Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
Duncan Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: means in pure Python code the string has python methods, but in Python using the CLR it gains the CLR methods. Presumably in Ruby code it looks like a Ruby string and so on, but (and this is what's new) it is the same object, not a bunch of language specific wrappers around the string type. So is it changeable (making Python code using it deeply unhappy) or unchangeable (making Ruby or Javascript code similarly unhappy)? The idea of just having one string type across languages is fascinating, but I'm not sure it can work as stated due to different semantics such as mutable vs immutable... Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Martelli) wrote: Duncan Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: means in pure Python code the string has python methods, but in Python using the CLR it gains the CLR methods. Presumably in Ruby code it looks like a Ruby string and so on, but (and this is what's new) it is the same object, not a bunch of language specific wrappers around the string type. So is it changeable (making Python code using it deeply unhappy) or unchangeable (making Ruby or Javascript code similarly unhappy)? The idea of just having one string type across languages is fascinating, but I'm not sure it can work as stated due to different semantics such as mutable vs immutable... I think they said in the video that Ruby strings were a whole other talk. My guess is that, as .Net strings are immutable, Ruby can use them but its own strings must be some other class. I did a bit of experimenting with Python and JScript in the DLRconsole sample (http://silverlight.net/Samples/1.1/DLR-Console/python/index.htm). Sadly I cannot figure out any way of copying text from the DLR console so I'll attempt to retype it (hopefully without too many mistakes). BTW, this is a straight copy: the console really does let you flip languages while keeping the same variables in scope. py s = System.String(abc) py s 'abc' py type(s) type 'str' py s2 = abc py type(s2) is System.String True js typeof(s) 'string' jstypeof(s2) 'string' js System.String type 'str' py n = 42 py type(n) type 'int' js typeof(n) 'number' py System.Int32 type 'int' py type(n) is System.Int32 True py p = 2**64 py type(p) py type(p) is System.Int64 False js typeof(p) 'Microsoft.Scripting.Math.BigInteger' py lst = [1, 2, 3] js typeof(lst) 'IronPython.Runtime.List' js x = 42 42.0 py type(x) type 'float' js var a = [1, 2, 3] py type(a) type 'JSArrayObject' So it looks like str, int, long, float all map to common types between the languages but list is an IronPython type. Also as you might expect JScript will happily use an integer but it only produces float values. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
sturlamolden wrote: On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages, which they call DLR. It sits on top of the conventional .NET runtime (CLR) and provides services for dynamically typed languages like Python or Lisp (thus the cross-posting). Apparently is is distributed under a BSD-like open-source license. I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations are not too high. Has anyone looked at the DLR yet? What are your impression? So far, there is not a lot of information available. The only statement about the technology I have read so far is that the DLR is a thin layer on top of the CLR. This doesn't say a lot. So it's hard to tell whether this is a (good) marketing stunt or whether there are actual substantial improvement to the infrastructure. Pascal -- My website: http://p-cos.net Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org Closer to MOP ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
On May 2, 1:22 pm, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages, which they call DLR. It sits on top of the conventional .NET runtime (CLR) and provides services for dynamically typed languages like Python or Lisp (thus the cross-posting). Apparently is is distributed under a BSD-like open-source license. I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations are not too high. Has anyone looked at the DLR yet? What are your impression? Jim Hugunin har written about the DLR in his blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/hugunin/ To cite one of the comments: Fuck this microsoft bollocks! You just stole the Lisp runtime ideas and fucked them up by stupid it salesman lingo. (Khrishna) Sturla Molden I realize this is a stupid question, but why did you cite the most offensive comment to this blog post? Most of them were positive. Mike -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
Hi! DLR is include in SilverLight. See my message of yesterday. For instant, DLR is for IronPython JScript. Others languages are only promised. You can install SilverLight 1.1, and make your tests. -- @-salutations Michel Claveau -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
Re! During we post messages, then blog of Jim Hugunin is updated: http://blogs.msdn.com/hugunin/ -- @-salutations Michel Claveau -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 2, 1:22 pm, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages, which they call DLR. It sits on top of the conventional .NET runtime (CLR) and provides services for dynamically typed languages like Python or Lisp (thus the cross-posting). Apparently is is distributed under a BSD-like open-source license. I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations are not too high. Has anyone looked at the DLR yet? What are your impression? Jim Hugunin har written about the DLR in his blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/hugunin/ To cite one of the comments: Fuck this microsoft bollocks! You just stole the Lisp runtime ideas and fucked them up by stupid it salesman lingo. (Khrishna) Sturla Molden I realize this is a stupid question, but why did you cite the most offensive comment to this blog post? Most of them were positive. Yes, but everybody hates Microsoft, so there ya go. Anyway, here is the real question: thin layer? I wonder then if anything has changed since: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/2f9759fa3e8877eb/2b11ecfdc4a15fb4?q=rettig+clr_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3Drettig+clr%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg%26_doneTitle=Back+to+Searchd#2b11ecfdc4a15fb4 Anyway, doesn't matter, just fun to see MS running up the white flag after their ballsy attempt to get CL to do the same at ILC 2005. kt -- http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/ Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic. - John Ray As long as algebra is taught in school, there will be prayer in school. - Cokie Roberts Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra. - Fran Lebowitz I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive. - Tim Allen -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
On May 2, 8:20 pm, Pascal Costanza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sturlamolden wrote: On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages, which they call DLR. It sits on top of the conventional .NET runtime (CLR) and provides services for dynamically typed languages like Python or Lisp (thus the cross-posting). Apparently is is distributed under a BSD-like open-source license. I am curious to know how it performs in comparison to CPython and an efficient compiled Lisp like CMUCL. Speed is a major problem with CPython but not with .NET or CMUCL, so it will be interesting to see how the DLR performs in comparison. It would be great to finally see a Python that runs on steroids, but knowing M$ bloatware my expectations are not too high. Has anyone looked at the DLR yet? What are your impression? So far, there is not a lot of information available. The only statement about the technology I have read so far is that the DLR is a thin layer on top of the CLR. This doesn't say a lot. So it's hard to tell whether this is a (good) marketing stunt or whether there are actual substantial improvement to the infrastructure. Well, they're now implementing four dynamic languages on top of the DLR - not just IronPython. * IronPython * IronRuby * Java Script * VBx (a dynamic version of VB) The DLR provides a dynamic type system and hosting environment for dynamic languages. The nice part is that the DLR runs on top of the 'Core CLR' which ships with Silverlight. This means that apps. that run in Silverlight are secure - so you can run an IronPython console in the browser... Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/weblog/index.shtml Pascal -- My website:http://p-cos.net Common Lisp Document Repository:http://cdr.eurolisp.org Closer to MOP ContextL:http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
On May 2, 11:22 am, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages, Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
On May 3, 2:15 am, Kaz Kylheku [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads. Thanks. The only off-topic posting in this thread is your own (and now this one). Begone. S.M. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
Isn't python cross platform? On Thursday 3 May 2007, Kaz Kylheku wrote: On May 2, 11:22 am, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday Microsoft announced a new runtime for dynamic languages, Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
sturlamolden wrote: On May 3, 2:15 am, Kaz Kylheku [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kindly refrain from creating any more off-topic, cross-posted threads. Thanks. The only off-topic posting in this thread is your own (and now this one). Begone. FWIW, I took Kaz's remark to be more of a joke than an actual cease-desist thing, partly because we here recorgnize that every nod to dynamic languages brings us one day closer to the ascendance of Common Lisp to Its Rightful Place on the throne and all other languages being pushed into the sea, and partly because we all actually enjoy long, drawn-out, flamewars with other NGs. For example, my guess is that the DLR/Iron Python just proves that the CLR had enough chops to support a hack like Python, but not enough to support The Greatness of Common Lisp. See how that works? :) kenny -- http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/ Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic. - John Ray As long as algebra is taught in school, there will be prayer in school. - Cokie Roberts Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra. - Fran Lebowitz I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive. - Tim Allen -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft's Dynamic Languages Runtime (DLR)
Kevin Haynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't python cross platform? Sure -- why is that relevant? Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
