Re: Server side newbie
Can you point me to sample code somewhere? If I had a server-side python script that increments the number in an edit control on clicking a button, I think I could take it from there. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Server side newbie
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can you point me to sample code somewhere? If I had a server-side python script that increments the number in an edit control on clicking a button, I think I could take it from there. Oh man, I hate to say this since it's not a good situation, but what you're asking is a little bit more complicated than I think you're expecting. You need a server app with some notion of sessions (I assume the user is supposed to be able to increment the number more than once), so you have to know a bit about how servers and HTTP work, plus how to write HTML, in addition to Python and some suitable server side modules. Your best bet might be to use a web framework that already understands sessions, but 1) you have to decide which one to use, since there are several to choose from with differing sets of features; and 2) these frameworks are designed for writing complex apps, so learning them may be a bit much for something this simple. But if your idea is to build towards a real web app that does something more serious, then a framework is the way to go. There's an old book about how database-backed web sites work, that is pretty long, but well written. It's online: http://philip.greenspun.com/panda -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Server side newbie
swisscheese wrote: I have a simple python desktop app with several edit controls and a couple of buttons. It just does some math. What's the simplest way to make it a server-side app so visitors to my site can run the app via their browser? If the math is simple, you can just use JavaScript. No need to bother running it on the server. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Server side newbie
Thanks but the math is a bit complex and already coded and debugged in a python desktop gui. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Server side newbie
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Someone should invent a way to automate all this. My python app fully describes the UI and behaviour so it seems possible. Or at least the sites should learn how to write to a broader audience so they can be understood by newbies. Here's hoping for an easier future There has been some discussion about settling on a standard web framework to include in the standard Python distro. That will make things easier. However, right now, things are not in a settled enough technical state to make such a move. You might look at PHP, which has an built-in html template system and generally more complete web server integration than Python currently has. Some people write PHP front ends for Python apps, communicating through XML or some other method. You will have to learn some basic HTML no matter what. Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing is an old but maybe still worthwhile book on how server side web programming (specifically database backed site development) works. Full text online: http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Server side newbie
Thanks for the various replies. They all seem to lead to a lot more learning. I thought Python was supposed to make it easy to build web apps. It appears after going thru the learning curve for Python I need to learn unix, a framework, brush up on HTML and so on. It's like being caught in a spider web of web sites with endless tools. And the sites assume everyone knows the lingo - just connect the cgi to the mod_python and install to apache setting the path to ... - sure. Someone should invent a way to automate all this. My python app fully describes the UI and behaviour so it seems possible. Or at least the sites should learn how to write to a broader audience so they can be understood by newbies. Here's hoping for an easier future :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Server side newbie
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the various replies. They all seem to lead to a lot more learning. I thought Python was supposed to make it easy to build web apps. It appears after going thru the learning curve for Python I need to learn unix, a framework, brush up on HTML and so on. It's like being caught in a spider web of web sites with endless tools. And the sites assume everyone knows the lingo - just connect the cgi to the mod_python and install to apache setting the path to ... - sure. Someone should invent a way to automate all this. My python app fully describes the UI and behaviour so it seems possible. The problem is more the web's than Python's though Python _could_ have significant additions that would overcome the hurdle. You are correct that given the current state of affairs you can't just magically make a GUI program show up on the web effectively. There are a wide range of technical reasons for that, most of which have nothing whatsoever to do with Python. Most any other language would be the same (though there may in fact be one or two special cases where this magic interoperability is supported... might be interesting to hear of them). Also, just as writing a GUI with Python requires some basic knowledge of GUI programming, hooking anything interesting to the web requires a basic knowledge of some web stuff. Not mod_python, certainly, and technically you don't need to know anything about apache either, but even if you took a more direct route, there are two inescapable facts that will block you given your apparent current level of knowledge. One is that you pretty much have to know about HTML at some level to be able to generate dynamic output for web clients. (Even if you use a canned framework to do the grunt work, it's unlikely you'd be able to use it effectively without understanding what it was doing under the covers.) Secondly, you'd need to know how to get a basic web server set up and available through your ISP. Whether that involves running something on your own computer and using a dynamic DNS service, or installing something that will run in whatever non-standard environment your own ISP provides, or something else, is a question we can't answer. (At least, without more background, and you provided none that is useful in your first posting, just the vague my site which means nothing to us.) Regardless, you are certainly correct about a number of things. One is that more learning is required. Does that really surprise you? Another is that this _could_ largely be automated, though not for all possible GUI features (and certainly not when you haven't even told us which GUI framework you used), as the web and standard GUIs have an incompatible architecture. The final result, most likely, would be much easier than what exists now, but there's a good chance *you* would still have gotten to the same roadblock, since you wrote your program first and only *then* asked how do I hook this to the web?. Generally, if you haven't planned properly in advance, you'll find yourself stuck with more learning and more work when you come to the next requirement in the list. -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Server side newbie
Thanks for the comments. I do know basic HTML although it seems like writing in assembly language. Filling in the blanks you outlined: my ISP is pair.com and they show python as available. My site is quirkle.com. True I did not think much about hooking my app to the web but I had, I think, a reasonably justified impression that python helped make it easy to develop web apps. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Server side newbie
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the comments. I do know basic HTML although it seems like writing in assembly language. Filling in the blanks you outlined: my ISP is pair.com and they show python as available. My site is quirkle.com. True I did not think much about hooking my app to the web but I had, I think, a reasonably justified impression that python helped make it easy to develop web apps. Python _does_ make it easy to develop web apps, though it doesn't make it so easy that you can get away without knowing some of the ugly details about the web. Given that you've got a handle on GUI programming, with the right framework you might not have that much trouble doing web stuff either. One thing that might be of help is this page http://pyre.third-bit.com/pyweb/index.html which compares in some detail several of the more popular frameworks. The page at http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebProgramming provides a possibly exhaustive list of the existing frameworks. The diversity shown there is certainly related to the fact that the world hasn't yet figured out how to make all kinds of web programming quite as standardized as GUI programming has become. I can't recommend a solution that I know would work for you, but I can suggest you consider starting by looking at CherryPy (mentioned on both the above), as a fairly self-contained and straightforward approach to doing web work in Python. If you can adapt your GUI structure to the web, CherryPy should let you implement it fairly easily and quickly, though it is not intended to do everything for you but rather to make it simple to do the fundamental things that web servers still need to do. -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Server side newbie
I have a simple python desktop app with several edit controls and a couple of buttons. It just does some math. What's the simplest way to make it a server-side app so visitors to my site can run the app via their browser? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Server side newbie
Check out mod_python for Apache. Basically, you would write your python app as a server-side script and the end user would interact with your code via a webpage. It's likely that you won't need any GUI code you wrote, as HTML form elements will be your choices in the browser. Check out PSP: it enables you to mix Python code with an otherwise ordinary HTML page. Mod_Python: http://www.modpython.org/ PSP article: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2004/02/26/python_server_pages.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Server side newbie
swisscheese wrote: I have a simple python desktop app with several edit controls and a couple of buttons. It just does some math. What's the simplest way to make it a server-side app so visitors to my site can run the app via their browser? There will probably be a dozen answers, any of which might meet whatever subjective way you have of judging simplicity, but here's one: 1. strip the GUI code off 2. wrap the remaining core with a simple CGI interface 2. make a web form in HTML that calls it -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Server side newbie
swisscheese a écrit : I have a simple python desktop app with several edit controls and a couple of buttons. It just does some math. What's the simplest way to make it a server-side app so visitors to my site can run the app via their browser? Among the many web frameworks for Python, Karrigell is probably the easiest to get started with You can check out a recent review on devshed : http://www.devshed.com/c/a/Python/Karrigell-for-Python/ It says : Python novices won't find any obstacles when working with Karrigell, and Python experts won't feel too limited Regards, Pierre -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Server side newbie
swisscheese wrote: I have a simple python desktop app with several edit controls and a couple of buttons. It just does some math. What's the simplest way to make it a server-side app so visitors to my site can run the app via their browser? The *simplest* way is to make it into a CGI script. What you'll probably want is to make the CGI script produce some html with a form in it. The form action is the CGI script itself. This way, after you hit the submit button, you get the same page back again (with your math answer written in the page somewhere), with the same fields and submit button waiting for you to use the script again. Use the cgi module to access the data that gets submitted by the form. To run your script, you'll need to install a web server. On Debian it's: apt-get install apache2 Then you put your CGI script into /usr/lib/cgi-bin/foo.py and point your browser to http://localhost/cgi-bin/foo.py ---J -- (remove zeez if demunging email address) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
