Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
Darren Chen ccylily1...@gmail.com wrote: 在 2014年11月5日星期三UTC+8下午8时17分11秒，larry@gmail.com写道： On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:13 AM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: Firtst of all thanks for reply. brackets [] means that the argument is optional. That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I know it because I've been a programmer for 39 years. that's awesome！！ Well I started in 1971 or thereabouts. -- Chris Green · -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
in 730867 20141107 093651 c...@isbd.net wrote: Darren Chen ccylily1...@gmail.com wrote: å¨ 2014å¹´11æ5æ¥ææä¸UTC+8ä¸å8æ¶17å11ç§ï¼larry@gmail.comåéï¼ On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:13 AM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: Firtst of all thanks for reply. brackets [] means that the argument is optional. That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I know it because I've been a programmer for 39 years. that's awesomeï¼ï¼ Well I started in 1971 or thereabouts. 1959 for me ;-) -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
Bob Martin bob.mar...@excite.com Wrote in message: in 730867 20141107 093651 c...@isbd.net wrote: Darren Chen ccylily1...@gmail.com wrote: å¨ 2014å¹´11æ5æ¥ææä¸UTC+8ä¸å8æ¶17å11ç§ï¼larry@gmail.comåéï¼ On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:13 AM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: Firtst of all thanks for reply. brackets [] means that the argument is optional. That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I know it because I've been a programmer for 39 years. that's awesomeï¼ï¼ Well I started in 1971 or thereabouts. 1959 for me ;-) Approximately 1968 for me. I wrote programs in 1967, but didn't get to run them till 1968. -- DaveA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
Dave Angel wrote: Approximately 1968 for me. I wrote programs in 1967, but didn't get to run them till 1968. I once used a compiler that slow too. -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 7:52 AM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: Dave Angel wrote: Approximately 1968 for me. I wrote programs in 1967, but didn't get to run them till 1968. I once used a compiler that slow too. Yeah, I think it was made by Intermetrics. Or maybe Borland. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Nov 7, 2014, at 7:42 AM, Dave Angel da...@davea.name wrote: Bob Martin bob.mar...@excite.com Wrote in message: in 730867 20141107 093651 c...@isbd.net wrote: Darren Chen ccylily1...@gmail.com wrote: å¨ 2014å¹´11æ5æ¥ææä¸UTC+8ä¸å8æ¶17å11ç§ï¼larry@gmail.comåéï¼ On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:13 AM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: Firtst of all thanks for reply. brackets [] means that the argument is optional. That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I know it because I've been a programmer for 39 years. But, to get back to the OP’s original question. The earliest manuals that I remember looking at (from DEC, remember them) all had sections in the front that listed the typological conventions used throughout the manual. Those included the use of square brackets to indicate optional arguments. Eventually some of those conventions, including [ ] and the use of a fixed width font to indicate screen output, became so wide spread as to be simply part of the cultural context. A fair number of “Introduction to . . .” programming books still have such a section. Bill that's awesomeï¼ï¼ Well I started in 1971 or thereabouts. 1959 for me ;-) Approximately 1968 for me. I wrote programs in 1967, but didn't get to run them till 1968. -- DaveA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On 2014-11-06 04:05, Gene Heskett wrote: On Wednesday 05 November 2014 21:52:42 Mark Lawrence did opine And Gene did reply: On 06/11/2014 02:37, Dave Angel wrote: Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com Wrote in message: On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Larry Martell larry.mart...@gmail.com wrote: And I don't think Larry was actually offended; it's just that some questions don't really have easy answers - imagine someone asking a great mathematician But how do you KNOW that 2 + 2 is 4? Where's it written down?... all he can say is It is. Yeah, I'm on a lot of lists and lately I've seen a lot of 'I'm not a programmer, but I want to write code and I need someone to tell me how. Gets to you after a while. Too true. Those same people are unlikely to go to a gathering of civil engineers and say I'm no expert, but I want to build a bridge and I need someone to tell me how, yet somehow it's expected to be possible with software. ChrisA Or I'm no expert but I need someone to show me how; build me one here in my front yard. Against a requirements specification that changes on a daily basis, I want it delivered yesterday and no you can't have any more resources to help out, so don't ask :) With, or without a toll booth and operator? Both, make it configurable. In fact, make the length configurable too, in case I want to use it across another river. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 11:31 PM, Ivan Evstegneev
webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote:
That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it
from?
I know it because I've been a programmer for 39 years.
I didn't intend to offence anyone here. Just asked a questions ^_^
Don't worry about offending people. Even if you do annoy one or two,
there'll be plenty of us who know to be patient :) And I don't think
Larry was actually offended; it's just that some questions don't
really have easy answers - imagine someone asking a great
mathematician But how do you KNOW that 2 + 2 is 4? Where's it written
down?... all he can say is It is.
An ordinary mathematician will say: Hold up two fingers. Count them, and
you get one, two. Now hold up another two fingers. Count them, and you will
get two again. Hold them together, count the lot, and you get one, two,
three, four. Therefore, 2+2 = 4.
A good mathematician might start with the empty set, ∅ = {}. [Aside: if the
symbol looks like a small box, try changing your font -- it is supposed to
be a circle with a slash through it. Lucinda Typewriter has the glyph
for '\N{EMPTY SET}'.] That empty set represents zero. Take the set of all
empty sets, {∅} = {{}}, which represents one. Now we know how to count:
after any number, represented by some set, the *next* number is represented
by the simplest set containing the previous set.
Having defined counting, the good mathematician can define addition, and go
on to prove that 2+2 = 4. This is, essentially, a proof of Peano Arithmetic
(PA), which one can take as effectively the basic arithmetic of counting
fingers, sheep or sticks.
But a *great* mathematician will say, Hmmm, actually, we don't *know* that
2+2 equals 4, because we cannot prove that arithmetic is absolutely
consistent. If arithmetic is not consistent, then we might simultaneously
prove that 2+2 = 4 and 2+2 ≠ 4, which is unlikely but not inconceivable.
Fields medallist Vladimir Voevodsky is a great mathematician, and he
apparently believes that the consistency of Peano Arithmetic is still an
open question.
http://m-phi.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/voevodsky-consistency-of-pa-is-open.html
Another way to look at this, not necessarily Voevodsky's approach, is to
note that the existing proofs of PA's consistency are *relative* proofs of
PA. E.g. they rely on the consistency of some other formal system, such as
the Zermelo-Frankel axioms (ZF). If ZF is consistent, so is PA, but we
don't know that ZF is consistent...
--
Steven
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: But a *great* mathematician will say, Hmmm, actually, we don't *know* that 2+2 equals 4, because we cannot prove that arithmetic is absolutely consistent. If arithmetic is not consistent, then we might simultaneously prove that 2+2 = 4 and 2+2 ≠ 4, which is unlikely but not inconceivable. And the mother of a young child will say It just is. Now eat your greens. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
在 2014年11月5日星期三UTC+8下午8时17分11秒，larry@gmail.com写道： On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:13 AM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: Firtst of all thanks for reply. brackets [] means that the argument is optional. That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I know it because I've been a programmer for 39 years. that's awesome！！ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
Hello everyone, I'm a Python beginner and just getting familiar with it. (I need it for my EE B.Sc. project) For the learning purposes I use IDLE and (Learning Python by written by Mark Lutz). Let's say that I have some earlier experience with C language, but still Python is a different one ))) Anyway, the question I would like to ask is about understanding help contents. It may look to obvious and even a dumb question, but still I need your help. Here is a brief background with example in order to introduce my problem in more clear way: Suppose I get some list created: L=[i for i in range(1,15,2)] As it can be seen, this is the odd numbers list: [1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13] Supppose I need to check the occurrence of number 7, in this case I'll just write: L.index(7) The result is :3 So here is the question itself: If I use the help command to check the range command I get this info: range(stop) - range object range(start, stop[, step]) - range object As you've seen in my example I used range(1,15,2). But this knowledge I got from googling a couple of sites. I still can't understand the help command description. For instance, how do I need to understand that (start,stop[,step]) it's just a three numbers? What do those brackets-- [,] mean? The same about str.replace command, where I get this: S.replace(old, new[, count]) - using this description I can't really understand how to write the replace function parameters. So I googled it up and found this example in order to get more clear understanding of command use. str = this is string examplewow!!! this is really string print str.replace(is, was) print str.replace(is, was, 3) The result: thwas was string examplewow!!! thwas was really string thwas was string examplewow!!! thwas is really string But still how do I know that those old, new are the strings and [,count] just a number? I mean, it was more naturally(as a baginner) to me to write str.replace(is,was[,3]) and that's all. Finally, as for my opinion, this is a lame way to learn what a command do by constantly googling it for examples. I need to get more familiar with help, but the main problem, is that I couldn't find any suitable explanations/tutorials about help syntax and etc. (maybe didn't search well). Any explanations/links will be greatly appreciated. I need some help for help ^_^ Thanks in advance, Ivan. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
Original Message - From: Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com To: python-list@python.org Sent: Wednesday, 5 November, 2014 12:00:16 PM Subject: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed So here is the question itself: If I use the help command to check the “range” command I get this info: range(stop) - range object range(start, stop[, step]) - range object With python 2.7, when I type help(range), I get Help on built-in function range in module __builtin__: range(...) range([start,] stop[, step]) - list of integers Return a list containing an arithmetic progression of integers. range(i, j) returns [i, i+1, i+2, ..., j-1]; start (!) defaults to 0. When step is given, it specifies the increment (or decrement). For example, range(4) returns [0, 1, 2, 3]. The end point is omitted! These are exactly the valid indices for a list of 4 elements. range([start,] stop[, step]) tells you how to call the range function, there's a start, stop and step argument. The purpose of these arguments are given by the longer description. brackets [] means that the argument is optional. Though there's nothing wrong with googling the function for help, I'm doing it all the time. Actually, the python documentation is a better place to get help on a particular function, just make sure you hit the correct version, for either python 2 or 3: https://docs.python.org/2/library/functions.html#range I'm using python's help function only when working offline. JM -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On 05/11/2014 11:55, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote: Original Message - From: Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com To: python-list@python.org Sent: Wednesday, 5 November, 2014 12:00:16 PM Subject: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed So here is the question itself: If I use the help command to check the “range” command I get this info: range(stop) - range object range(start, stop[, step]) - range object With python 2.7, when I type help(range), I get Help on built-in function range in module __builtin__: range(...) range([start,] stop[, step]) - list of integers Return a list containing an arithmetic progression of integers. range(i, j) returns [i, i+1, i+2, ..., j-1]; start (!) defaults to 0. When step is given, it specifies the increment (or decrement). For example, range(4) returns [0, 1, 2, 3]. The end point is omitted! These are exactly the valid indices for a list of 4 elements. range([start,] stop[, step]) tells you how to call the range function, there's a start, stop and step argument. The purpose of these arguments are given by the longer description. brackets [] means that the argument is optional. Though there's nothing wrong with googling the function for help, I'm doing it all the time. Actually, the python documentation is a better place to get help on a particular function, just make sure you hit the correct version, for either python 2 or 3: https://docs.python.org/2/library/functions.html#range I'm using python's help function only when working offline. JM There is an issue on the bug tracker about the difference between help for range between Python 2 and 3, see http://bugs.python.org/issue22785 -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
Firtst of all thanks for reply. brackets [] means that the argument is optional. That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I mean, if there are some resources, which explain all these syntax abbreviations? The general concept. Like this one(just for example): class bytearray([source[, encoding[, errors]]]) --- What does it mean? Is that I can use it in optional way? Like: class bytearray(source) or class bytearray(encoding) ? or just write down all three of them? In which format do I do so? Sincerely, Ivan. -Original Message- From: Jean-Michel Pichavant [mailto:jeanmic...@sequans.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 13:55 To: Ivan Evstegneev Cc: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed Original Message - From: Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com To: python-list@python.org Sent: Wednesday, 5 November, 2014 12:00:16 PM Subject: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed So here is the question itself: If I use the help command to check the “range” command I get this info: range(stop) - range object range(start, stop[, step]) - range object With python 2.7, when I type help(range), I get Help on built-in function range in module __builtin__: range(...) range([start,] stop[, step]) - list of integers Return a list containing an arithmetic progression of integers. range(i, j) returns [i, i+1, i+2, ..., j-1]; start (!) defaults to 0. When step is given, it specifies the increment (or decrement). For example, range(4) returns [0, 1, 2, 3]. The end point is omitted! These are exactly the valid indices for a list of 4 elements. range([start,] stop[, step]) tells you how to call the range function, there's a start, stop and step argument. The purpose of these arguments are given by the longer description. brackets [] means that the argument is optional. Though there's nothing wrong with googling the function for help, I'm doing it all the time. Actually, the python documentation is a better place to get help on a particular function, just make sure you hit the correct version, for either python 2 or 3: https://docs.python.org/2/library/functions.html#range I'm using python's help function only when working offline. JM -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: range(start, stop[, step]) - range object For instance, how do I need to understand that (start,stop[,step]) it’s just a three numbers? What do those brackets-- [,] mean? The docs for range() in Python 3 do need improvement, as Mark said, although there's a bit more info than you see there. The exact text varies from one version to another, but underneath that first line should be something like: Return a virtual sequence of numbers from start to stop by step. That should tell you a bit more, at least. As to the brackets, they're a common convention meaning optional. This is much bigger than Python, so it's not actually explained anywhere. (I've no idea where someone would go to try to find info on these sorts of conventions. It's a little hard to do a Google search for symbols and their usages. But that's what mailing lists like this are for.) You can create a range object with two arguments (start and stop) or three (start, stop, and step). When an argument is optional, it usually has a default, and in this case, the default step is 1 - every integer will be included. Don't be afraid to ask questions. There are plenty of people here who know both Python and C (I'm one of them), and we're happy to help out. And hey, you might find you can contribute a better piece of help text for something, and then we can make it better for every future wonderer :) ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:13 AM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: Firtst of all thanks for reply. brackets [] means that the argument is optional. That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I know it because I've been a programmer for 39 years. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I mean, if there are some resources, which explain all these syntax abbreviations? The general concept. Like this one(just for example): class bytearray([source[, encoding[, errors]]]) --- What does it mean? Is that I can use it in optional way? Like: class bytearray(source) or class bytearray(encoding) ? or just write down all three of them? In which format do I do so? With consecutive defaults, like that, it's written as a nested series. You have three optional parts: the first is source[, encoding[, errors]], the second (completely inside that) is , encoding[, errors], and the third (also inside) is , errors. The first one gives you two options: class bytearray() class bytearray(source[, encoding[, errors]]) Then that gives you two more options: class bytearray(source) class bytearray(source, encoding[, errors]) Which itself gives two options: class bytearray(source, encoding) class bytearray(source, encoding, errors) So what you actually have is four real, usable options: class bytearray() class bytearray(source) class bytearray(source, encoding) class bytearray(source, encoding, errors) Does that make sense? You're allowed to provide no options, or anywhere up to three, but they have to be the first N options. In this particular case, it doesn't make sense to provide the later options without also providing the earlier ones. The encoding and errors parameters affect how source is interpreted, and errors affects how the encoding copes with stuff it can't handle, so it wouldn't make sense to provide either without source, or source and errors without encoding. That's why it's written as a nested set of optional sections, rather than as a series of stand-alone options. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I mean, if there are some resources, which explain all these syntax abbreviations? The general concept. The best way to find clues about what the conventions mean is to find something that codifies them in some way. Like this: http://docopt.org/ That's talking about command-line arguments to an application, but a lot of the notations are the same. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
Chris, You got my point exactly. ^_^ This is not about a range command itself, but those conventions. Thanks. Larry, That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I know it because I've been a programmer for 39 years. I didn't intend to offence anyone here. Just asked a questions ^_^ -Original Message- From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+webmailgroups=gmail@python.org] On Behalf Of Chris Angelico Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 14:16 Cc: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: range(start, stop[, step]) - range object For instance, how do I need to understand that (start,stop[,step]) it’s just a three numbers? What do those brackets-- [,] mean? The docs for range() in Python 3 do need improvement, as Mark said, although there's a bit more info than you see there. The exact text varies from one version to another, but underneath that first line should be something like: Return a virtual sequence of numbers from start to stop by step. That should tell you a bit more, at least. As to the brackets, they're a common convention meaning optional. This is much bigger than Python, so it's not actually explained anywhere. (I've no idea where someone would go to try to find info on these sorts of conventions. It's a little hard to do a Google search for symbols and their usages. But that's what mailing lists like this are for.) You can create a range object with two arguments (start and stop) or three (start, stop, and step). When an argument is optional, it usually has a default, and in this case, the default step is 1 - every integer will be included. Don't be afraid to ask questions. There are plenty of people here who know both Python and C (I'm one of them), and we're happy to help out. And hey, you might find you can contribute a better piece of help text for something, and then we can make it better for every future wonderer :) ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 11:31 PM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I know it because I've been a programmer for 39 years. I didn't intend to offence anyone here. Just asked a questions ^_^ Don't worry about offending people. Even if you do annoy one or two, there'll be plenty of us who know to be patient :) And I don't think Larry was actually offended; it's just that some questions don't really have easy answers - imagine someone asking a great mathematician But how do you KNOW that 2 + 2 is 4? Where's it written down?... all he can say is It is. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 11:31 PM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I know it because I've been a programmer for 39 years. I didn't intend to offence anyone here. Just asked a questions ^_^ Don't worry about offending people. Exactly. This is the internet - it's all about annoying people ;-) Even if you do annoy one or two, there'll be plenty of us who know to be patient :) And I don't think Larry was actually offended; it's just that some questions don't really have easy answers - imagine someone asking a great mathematician But how do you KNOW that 2 + 2 is 4? Where's it written down?... all he can say is It is. Yeah, I'm on a lot of lists and lately I've seen a lot of 'I'm not a programmer, but I want to write code and I need someone to tell me how. Gets to you after a while. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Larry Martell larry.mart...@gmail.com wrote: And I don't think Larry was actually offended; it's just that some questions don't really have easy answers - imagine someone asking a great mathematician But how do you KNOW that 2 + 2 is 4? Where's it written down?... all he can say is It is. Yeah, I'm on a lot of lists and lately I've seen a lot of 'I'm not a programmer, but I want to write code and I need someone to tell me how. Gets to you after a while. Too true. Those same people are unlikely to go to a gathering of civil engineers and say I'm no expert, but I want to build a bridge and I need someone to tell me how, yet somehow it's expected to be possible with software. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On 11/5/2014 7:41 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 11:31 PM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I know it because I've been a programmer for 39 years. I didn't intend to offence anyone here. Just asked a questions ^_^ Don't worry about offending people. Even if you do annoy one or two, there'll be plenty of us who know to be patient :) And I don't think Larry was actually offended; it's just that some questions don't really have easy answers - imagine someone asking a great mathematician But how do you KNOW that 2 + 2 is 4? Where's it written down?... all he can say is It is. But it *can* be interesting to try and do otherwise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica -- Neil Cerutti -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On 11/5/2014 7:31 AM, Ivan Evstegneev wrote: You got my point exactly. ^_^ This is not about a range command itself, but those conventions. The Language Manual 1. Introduction has a section on the grammar notation conventions. The Library Manual 1. Introduction does not. I would agree that it should. Someone could open an issue. Ivan, the help(ob) results sometimes assume that you have read the doc and only need a reminder about the function signature. I strongly recommend that you read most of the first 5 chapter of the Library manual, especially 2 and 4. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Wednesday 05 November 2014 10:56:57 Larry Martell did opine And Gene did reply: On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 11:31 PM, Ivan Evstegneev webmailgro...@gmail.com wrote: That's what I'm talking about (asking actually), where do you know it from? I know it because I've been a programmer for 39 years. I didn't intend to offence anyone here. Just asked a questions ^_^ Don't worry about offending people. Exactly. This is the internet - it's all about annoying people ;-) Even if you do annoy one or two, there'll be plenty of us who know to be patient :) And I don't think Larry was actually offended; it's just that some questions don't really have easy answers - imagine someone asking a great mathematician But how do you KNOW that 2 + 2 is 4? Where's it written down?... all he can say is It is. Yeah, I'm on a lot of lists and lately I've seen a lot of 'I'm not a programmer, but I want to write code and I need someone to tell me how. Gets to you after a while. +1000, and its not just this list Larry. It seems we have a pandemic. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com Wrote in message: On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Larry Martell larry.mart...@gmail.com wrote: And I don't think Larry was actually offended; it's just that some questions don't really have easy answers - imagine someone asking a great mathematician But how do you KNOW that 2 + 2 is 4? Where's it written down?... all he can say is It is. Yeah, I'm on a lot of lists and lately I've seen a lot of 'I'm not a programmer, but I want to write code and I need someone to tell me how. Gets to you after a while. Too true. Those same people are unlikely to go to a gathering of civil engineers and say I'm no expert, but I want to build a bridge and I need someone to tell me how, yet somehow it's expected to be possible with software. ChrisA Or I'm no expert but I need someone to show me how; build me one here in my front yard. -- DaveA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On 06/11/2014 02:37, Dave Angel wrote: Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com Wrote in message: On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Larry Martell larry.mart...@gmail.com wrote: And I don't think Larry was actually offended; it's just that some questions don't really have easy answers - imagine someone asking a great mathematician But how do you KNOW that 2 + 2 is 4? Where's it written down?... all he can say is It is. Yeah, I'm on a lot of lists and lately I've seen a lot of 'I'm not a programmer, but I want to write code and I need someone to tell me how. Gets to you after a while. Too true. Those same people are unlikely to go to a gathering of civil engineers and say I'm no expert, but I want to build a bridge and I need someone to tell me how, yet somehow it's expected to be possible with software. ChrisA Or I'm no expert but I need someone to show me how; build me one here in my front yard. Against a requirements specification that changes on a daily basis, I want it delivered yesterday and no you can't have any more resources to help out, so don't ask :) -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Against a requirements specification that changes on a daily basis, I want it delivered yesterday and no you can't have any more resources to help out, so don't ask :) Or maybe Look, I'll give you five bucks if you can have the whole thing done by tomorrow, okay?... ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On Wednesday 05 November 2014 21:52:42 Mark Lawrence did opine And Gene did reply: On 06/11/2014 02:37, Dave Angel wrote: Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com Wrote in message: On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Larry Martell larry.mart...@gmail.com wrote: And I don't think Larry was actually offended; it's just that some questions don't really have easy answers - imagine someone asking a great mathematician But how do you KNOW that 2 + 2 is 4? Where's it written down?... all he can say is It is. Yeah, I'm on a lot of lists and lately I've seen a lot of 'I'm not a programmer, but I want to write code and I need someone to tell me how. Gets to you after a while. Too true. Those same people are unlikely to go to a gathering of civil engineers and say I'm no expert, but I want to build a bridge and I need someone to tell me how, yet somehow it's expected to be possible with software. ChrisA Or I'm no expert but I need someone to show me how; build me one here in my front yard. Against a requirements specification that changes on a daily basis, I want it delivered yesterday and no you can't have any more resources to help out, so don't ask :) With, or without a toll booth and operator? Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding help command description syntax - explanation needed
On 11/05/2014 03:00 AM, Ivan Evstegneev wrote: Hello everyone, I’m a Python beginner and just getting familiar with it. (I need it for my EE B.Sc. project) For the learning purposes I use IDLE and (Learning Python by written by Mark Lutz). Let’s say that I have some earlier experience with C language, but still Python is a different one ))) The Lutz book is an excellent and VERY thorough Python reference, but it is not very good as a beginner's tutorial. The standard Python.org tutorial can be a better starting point. Of course, there are a lot of other good sources as well -- both on-line and dead-tree versions. Try some googling. Also the Python Wiki has a lot of valuable links: https://wiki.python.org/moin/ -=- Larry -=- -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
