Wingide is a beautiful application

[vinjvinj]

I haven't used an IDE in a long time but gave wing ide a try because
I wanted the same development platform on Linux and Windows.

I'm currently using Ultraedit and it works fine but needed something
more portable as I'm moving my main platform over to Ubuntu. I first
tried jedit and was reasonably happy with it but it felt slow and it
did not have a native look and feel to it. It was really hard on the
eyes.

I was impressed! The UI has completely changed since the last time I
gave it a spin. It's much more useable and beautiful on the eyes. My
productivity has gone up for sure and would highly recomend it to
anyone else. not to mention you'll be supporting python as well.

Things I like about wingide:
- Ability to double click on the project plan and it hides and you
double click on it and it becomes visable again.
- Ability to double click on the debug/python shell plan and it hides
and you double click on it and it becomes visable again.
- Auto completion is very powerful and well implemented.
- Open the file that a function was defined through the context menu
- Keyboard mapping for vi and emacs
- Always having a python shell available
- An integrated debugger.
- Running in debug mode was significantly faster than any other
debugger I have used.
- Auto indent mode is vary useful.
- The space manager. Notifies you if a file contains spaces and tabs
and then converts all tabs into spaces.
- Ability to debug my cherrypy and turbogears application

Things that could use improvement:
- The block mode Ability to work with text files in block mode where
you can highlight any block in the file. Wingide implementation is
reasonable but not like Ultraedit's or jedit's

Does anyone know what gui toolkit wingide uses? it really is one of the
best applications I've seen for some time and it's a great way to
support python.

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Sybren Stuvel]

vinjvinj enlightened us with:
> I haven't used an IDE in a long time but gave wing ide a try because
> I wanted the same development platform on Linux and Windows.

I use gvim for that :)

> - Ability to double click on the project plan and it hides and you
> double click on it and it becomes visable again.

How do you double-click on something that's hidden?

> - Keyboard mapping for vi and emacs

VI keyboard mapping! I like :)

> - Always having a python shell available

I have a Python shell on my PDA, always available :))

> - The space manager. Notifies you if a file contains spaces and tabs
> and then converts all tabs into spaces.

And what if you want to use tabs?

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
 Frank Zappa
-- 
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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Steve Holden]

Sybren Stuvel wrote:
> vinjvinj enlightened us with:
> 
>>I haven't used an IDE in a long time but gave wing ide a try because
>>I wanted the same development platform on Linux and Windows.
> 
> 
> I use gvim for that :)
> 
> 
>>- Ability to double click on the project plan and it hides and you
>>double click on it and it becomes visable again.
> 
> 
> How do you double-click on something that's hidden?
> 
> 
>>- Keyboard mapping for vi and emacs
> 
> 
> VI keyboard mapping! I like :)
> 
> 
>>- Always having a python shell available
> 
> 
> I have a Python shell on my PDA, always available :))
> 
> 
>>- The space manager. Notifies you if a file contains spaces and tabs
>>and then converts all tabs into spaces.
> 
> 
> And what if you want to use tabs?
> 

Then you configure it to use tabs. It's a user setting.

regards
  Steve
-- 
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Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006  www.python.org/pycon/

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[James]

>> I haven't used an IDE in a long time but gave wing ide a try because
>> I wanted the same development platform on Linux and Windows.

>> I'm currently using Ultraedit and it works fine but needed something
>> more portable as I'm moving my main platform over to Ubuntu. I first
>> tried jedit and was reasonably happy with it but it felt slow and it
>> did not have a native look and feel to it. It was really hard on the
>> eyes.

Then you owe it to yourself to also try SPE, PyDev and Boa Constructor
(got off to a slow start, but it looks promising now). All are free,
open source, cross platform, native look and feel and support more or
less the features you list.

>> Does anyone know what gui toolkit wingide uses? it really is one of the
>> best applications I've seen for some time and it's a great way to
>> support python.

GTK.

Two minor peeves about WingIDE.
1.) Not native look and feel.
2.) Auto List members implementation is great. But what about call
tips? Just as important and every other Python IDE has it.

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Claudio Grondi]

vinjvinj wrote:
> I haven't used an IDE in a long time but gave wing ide a try because
> I wanted the same development platform on Linux and Windows.
> 
> I'm currently using Ultraedit and it works fine but needed something
> more portable as I'm moving my main platform over to Ubuntu.
This is also where I intend to go, except going for Wing, which is in my 
eyes currently no alternative to Ultra Edit as an overall text editor on 
Windows ( I am tired of using two or more editors at the same time as I 
do when working with Microsoft Visual C++ and want the features of both 
Ultra Edit and the Visual Studio IDE ).

- Wing does not have a ruler showing the current column
- Wing has a slow graphics output on Windows (also on Linux?)
- Wing GUI needs adaptation to its logic (e.g. there is no view menue 
item). I have to admit, that Ultra Edit GUI is also not good, so both 
need some adaptation efforts from the user.
- Wing does not support column mode (as you already said)
- Wing text editing is based on Scintilla and there are many other 
powerful and free editors built upon Scintilla available.
- Wing does not support HTML editing by providing separate HTML toolbar 
as the last versions of UltraEdit do.

The only thing what makes a difference to me is, that Wing 'understands' 
Python code what results in features not available elsewhere (e.g. go to 
definition). I don't know if UltraEdit in its Studio version does 
similar things - I suppose it does, but I will be surprized if also for 
Python - is there anyone who works with it?

The problem with deciding to use Wing on Linux is, that I am switching 
to Linux because of its Open Source at no cost feature, so I don't 
actually want to spend any money on proprietary software using Linux. 
But because there is no Ultra Edit on Linux it can happen, that I have 
to reconsider my attitude when actually fully on Linux. But this will 
maybe be never the case, as Windows appears to me as a much more 
powerful system and Linux comes in only in order to save money (when it 
is possible to use Python/Linux for running ready developed Python 
applications) on on multiple Windows licenses in case of using more than 
one PC.

Why do you go for Ubuntu, not for Mandriva if you are ready to pay money 
beeing on Linux?

  I first
> tried jedit and was reasonably happy with it but it felt slow and it
> did not have a native look and feel to it. It was really hard on the
> eyes.
> 
> I was impressed! The UI has completely changed since the last time I
> gave it a spin. It's much more useable and beautiful on the eyes. My
> productivity has gone up for sure and would highly recomend it to
> anyone else. not to mention you'll be supporting python as well.
> 
> Things I like about wingide:
> - Ability to double click on the project plan and it hides and you
> double click on it and it becomes visable again.
> - Ability to double click on the debug/python shell plan and it hides
> and you double click on it and it becomes visable again.
> - Auto completion is very powerful and well implemented.
> - Open the file that a function was defined through the context menu
> - Keyboard mapping for vi and emacs
> - Always having a python shell available
> - An integrated debugger.
> - Running in debug mode was significantly faster than any other
> debugger I have used.
> - Auto indent mode is vary useful.
> - The space manager. Notifies you if a file contains spaces and tabs
> and then converts all tabs into spaces.
> - Ability to debug my cherrypy and turbogears application
> 
> Things that could use improvement:
> - The block mode Ability to work with text files in block mode where
> you can highlight any block in the file. Wingide implementation is
> reasonable but not like Ultraedit's or jedit's
As Wing uses Scintilla I don't expect it to support column mode before 
Scintilla does.
What about editing large (100 MByte and more) text files? I have 
uninstalled Wing already, but I suppose, that it will run into problems 
when loading large files what I have experienced longer time ago using 
Scintilla.

Claudio
> 
> Does anyone know what gui toolkit wingide uses? it really is one of the
> best applications I've seen for some time and it's a great way to
> support python.
> 
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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Jonathan Ellis]

James wrote:
> >> I haven't used an IDE in a long time but gave wing ide a try because
> >> I wanted the same development platform on Linux and Windows.

> Then you owe it to yourself to also try SPE, PyDev and Boa Constructor
> (got off to a slow start, but it looks promising now). All are free,
> open source, cross platform, native look and feel and support more or
> less the features you list.

In my experience Boa Constructor isn't worth bothering with.  It's far
too bugy for practical use.

> Two minor peeves about WingIDE.
> 1.) Not native look and feel.

Well...  GTK is as native as anything else, on Linux.  Even on Windows
GTK apps seem to be spreading; I've been using GIMP and GAIM long
enough that I guess "not quite native" doesn't bug me anymore.

> 2.) Auto List members implementation is great. But what about call
> tips? Just as important and every other Python IDE has it.

Wing shows calltip info in the Source Assistant panel.  (Pro version
only, IIRC.)

-Jonathan

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Shalabh Chaturvedi]

> James wrote:
>> 2.) Auto List members implementation is great. But what about call
>> tips? Just as important and every other Python IDE has it.

Jonathan Ellis wrote:

> Wing shows calltip info in the Source Assistant panel.  (Pro version
> only, IIRC.)

However it's not as useful as call tips. You have to switch to that tab. 
I tend to switch fairly often to another tab like Search or the Python 
Shell. Every time I need the assistant, I have to switch the tab again.

It does step through Quixote PTL in debug mode, which is pretty cool.

Shalabh

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[vinjvinj]

I have the debug and the python shell just below the editor and the
project and the source assistent on the right pane. You don't have to
swtich tabs when you search or go to the python shell this way. The
source assistant tab is always visible. Since I did not configure it in
any special way, I assume that this is the default configuration.

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Claudio Grondi wrote:
> The only thing what makes a difference to me is, that Wing 'understands'
> Python code what results in features not available elsewhere (e.g. go to
> definition).

This is something that pretty much any reasonable programming editor
will get you.  Vim and emacs both do it.

I get the feeling that a ot of people working with heavy IDEs don't
realize how capable vim/emacs are, so I'll give a brief rundown of what
my Vim environment does for me.  (I do Python web development)--if you
don't like the Vi keybindings, the Cream package is Vim that behaves
like a regular modeless editor but with all of vim's power (and a nice
embedded Python interpreter for writing extensions):

1. Python syntax checking: as I'm typing along, if I input a syntax
error then the line is immediately highlighted in red.  Useful for
catching brainos like:
if a=1:
(which will highlight in red when I hit enter, point out that I need ==
instead of =).
2. Normal tag-jump stuff: Ctrl-click on a function/method call (or
class or whatever) will jump to the function/method/class definition
(Ctrl-T works as well if you don't like clicking).  It keeps a stack of
visited files so you can drill down through your call stack and then
pop back up to where you came from.
3. Python class browsing stuff: A Class menu shows the parent and child
classes of the one you're currently in, and all the methods of the
current class; selecting any of the above jumps to the appropriate file
and line.
4. Interactive documentation stuff: When I type an open-paren, it looks
to see what the prior keyword is and displays help for it in the status
line (preferring Python documentation, then docstrings, then comments
before the function/method/class definition).  Even if there's no
help/comments, it'll show the arguments that the function takes.  So
if, say, I type:

cmp(

then the status line displays:

cmp(x, y) Compare the two objects X and Y and return an integer
according to ...

If I hit F1 it'll show the full help text.  Often the arguments are
enough, and I find the status-line display a lot less intrusive than
many on-the-fly help systems I've seen.

5. A client menu selects which client I want to work in (so, say, I get
a bug report for Client A, I select them from the menu).  The Class
menu and other functions respect this (if I'm in the generic Company
class, the Class menu will list Client A's Company subclass before the
subclasses of other companies; if I jump to the Company definition,
it'll go to Company A's client-specific version).  It also restarts
development httpd servers on the current machine running with conf
files appropriate to that client.
6. Full version control integration, including side-by-side diff
viewing/editing, etc
7. Editor control on uncaught errors; if I hit a web page on my
development httpd and it throws an uncaught exception, my editor will
jump to the line the exception occured at (preferring a location in the
stack that's in a file I'm currently editing).and I'll have the stack
trace in a scratch buffer if I want it, or as I jump up/down the stack
it'll show relevant parts of the trace in the status line.

There's a lot I'm forgetting, but the basic point is that even "simple"
text editors like vim can easily do a lot of Python-specific niceties
for you (emacs is similarly capable).

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Claudio Grondi]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Claudio Grondi wrote:
> 
>>The only thing what makes a difference to me is, that Wing 'understands'
>>Python code what results in features not available elsewhere (e.g. go to
>>definition).
> 
> 
> This is something that pretty much any reasonable programming editor
> will get you.  Vim and emacs both do it.
> 
> I get the feeling that a ot of people working with heavy IDEs don't
> realize how capable vim/emacs are, so I'll give a brief rundown of what
> my Vim environment does for me.  (I do Python web development)--if you
> don't like the Vi keybindings, the Cream package is Vim that behaves
> like a regular modeless editor but with all of vim's power (and a nice
> embedded Python interpreter for writing extensions):

I have tried Vim already multiple times in the past and it had always 
problems. But what was in the past must not stay this way forever, so I 
have got the latest download at
 
http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/cream/cream-0-33-1-gvim-6-3-90-1.exe

and installed it loading my current Python file.

With [Strg]-[End] I went to the end of the file where I wanted to 
continue editing, but the syntax highlighting told me there is no code 
but only a comment. I checked it and found out, that Vim is apparently 
not able to do proper highlighting when jumping to the end of the file 
not going through other parts of the code before.
Going back to the point where triple quotes comment begun (quite in the 
middle of the file) and back to the end did the trick to get proper 
highlighting again.
Apparently Vim syntax highlighting analyses only the code it has already 
'seen' within the editing window. This is not what I expect from a 
mature editor.
I have stopped here, because I found this problem after three seconds of 
using it, so imagine how much other problems will become apparent after 
using it three hours, right?
Vim similar as Wing has no [View] menu entry one can use for changing 
the text appearance in any reasonable Windows program, so the ancient 
Unix/Linux is still there with the system font as default setting for 
displaying text... It looks as I were in a DOS box, not in a text editor 
on Windows.
Loading a 100 MByte large file into this editor which pretends to be 
able to edit files of any size results in an Error.
I was not able to find how to do rectangular select/paste and there was 
no code folding for Python script code available.

Sorry, also this time still valid: Vim on Windows "no thank's".

I was just waste of my time to try it out again.

Claudio

> 
> 1. Python syntax checking: as I'm typing along, if I input a syntax
> error then the line is immediately highlighted in red.  Useful for
> catching brainos like:
> if a=1:
> (which will highlight in red when I hit enter, point out that I need ==
> instead of =).
> 2. Normal tag-jump stuff: Ctrl-click on a function/method call (or
> class or whatever) will jump to the function/method/class definition
> (Ctrl-T works as well if you don't like clicking).  It keeps a stack of
> visited files so you can drill down through your call stack and then
> pop back up to where you came from.
> 3. Python class browsing stuff: A Class menu shows the parent and child
> classes of the one you're currently in, and all the methods of the
> current class; selecting any of the above jumps to the appropriate file
> and line.
> 4. Interactive documentation stuff: When I type an open-paren, it looks
> to see what the prior keyword is and displays help for it in the status
> line (preferring Python documentation, then docstrings, then comments
> before the function/method/class definition).  Even if there's no
> help/comments, it'll show the arguments that the function takes.  So
> if, say, I type:
> 
> cmp(
> 
> then the status line displays:
> 
> cmp(x, y) Compare the two objects X and Y and return an integer
> according to ...
> 
> If I hit F1 it'll show the full help text.  Often the arguments are
> enough, and I find the status-line display a lot less intrusive than
> many on-the-fly help systems I've seen.
> 
> 5. A client menu selects which client I want to work in (so, say, I get
> a bug report for Client A, I select them from the menu).  The Class
> menu and other functions respect this (if I'm in the generic Company
> class, the Class menu will list Client A's Company subclass before the
> subclasses of other companies; if I jump to the Company definition,
> it'll go to Company A's client-specific version).  It also restarts
> development httpd servers on the current machine running with conf
> files appropriate to that client.
> 6. Full version control integration, including side-by-side diff
> viewing/editing, etc
> 7. Editor control on uncaught errors; if I hit a web page on my
> development httpd and it throws an uncaught exception, my editor will
> jump to the line the exception occured at (preferring a location in the
> stack that's in a file I'm currently editing).and I'll have the stack
> trac

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[malv]

Good idea.
Try several.
I did.
Many of the above don't have either no gui designer or a rather poor
one.
eric is by far the best!
http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html
malv

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[gene tani]

Claudio Grondi wrote:
> Apparently Vim syntax highlighting analyses only the code it has already
> 'seen' within the editing window. This is not what I expect from a
> mature editor.
> I have stopped here, because I found this problem after three seconds of
> using it, so imagine how much other problems will become apparent after
> using it three hours, right?
> Vim similar as Wing has no [View] menu entry one can use for changing
> the text appearance in any reasonable Windows program, so the ancient
> Unix/Linux is still there with the system font as default setting for
> displaying text... It looks as I were in a DOS box, not in a text editor
> on Windows.
> Loading a 100 MByte large file into this editor which pretends to be
> able to edit files of any size results in an Error.
> I was not able to find how to do rectangular select/paste and there was
> no code folding for Python script code available.

well, i'm not going to convince you but:

- Edit / Select font will let you choose font face / bold/italc and
size
- i have edited very large logfiles, CSVs etc in vim under linux and
FreeBSD, can't remember file sizes
- you probably do have to mess with .vimrc or get python.vim to get ti
the way you want, look here or searcht his newsgroup:

http://py.vaults.ca/~x/python_and_vim.html
http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~noel/vim.html

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Sybren Stuvel]

Claudio Grondi enlightened us with:
> With [Strg]-[End] I went to the end of the file where I wanted to
> continue editing, but the syntax highlighting told me there is no
> code but only a comment. I checked it and found out, that Vim is
> apparently not able to do proper highlighting when jumping to the
> end of the file not going through other parts of the code before.

Vim does check parts of the buffer it hasn't displayed, but it only
goes back so much. Or would you rather have Vim check the entire
buffer every time you change it?

> Going back to the point where triple quotes comment begun (quite in
> the middle of the file) and back to the end did the trick to get
> proper highlighting again.

Apparently you quoted so much that Vim didn't go all the way back to
check.

> Apparently Vim syntax highlighting analyses only the code it has
> already 'seen' within the editing window. This is not what I expect
> from a mature editor.

Well, the problem is in your head, not with the editor. It uses sane
defaults to keep things fast. If you quote such a large amount of
text, wouldn't it be better to just store it in a text file? You could
also use the fact that Python joins consecutive string constants and
quote each paragraph:

"""Some text.
blablabla
"""
"""
Some more text blabla
"""

It'll result in some more quotes, but when running your program it's
the same, and VIM will be able to highlight it just fine.

> I have stopped here, because I found this problem after three
> seconds of using it, so imagine how much other problems will become
> apparent after using it three hours, right?

Wrong. I have used Vim for years, and only found a few minor issues,
nothing more.

> Vim similar as Wing has no [View] menu entry one can use for
> changing the text appearance in any reasonable Windows program, so
> the ancient Unix/Linux is still there with the system font as
> default setting for displaying text... It looks as I were in a DOS
> box, not in a text editor on Windows.

I can do "Edit -> Select font" just fine...

> Loading a 100 MByte large file into this editor which pretends to be
> able to edit files of any size results in an Error.

Never had problems with that.

> I was not able to find how to do rectangular select/paste

Control+V to do block selects. After that, just paste.

> and there was no code folding for Python script code available.

Yes there is - I'm using it.

> It was just waste of my time to try it out again.

This is true for most things in life: If you go in with a negative
attitude and draw the wrong conclusions, you will only find what you
expected to find.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
 Frank Zappa
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Claudio Grondi]

Sybren Stuvel wrote:
> Claudio Grondi enlightened us with:
> 
>>With [Strg]-[End] I went to the end of the file where I wanted to
>>continue editing, but the syntax highlighting told me there is no
>>code but only a comment. I checked it and found out, that Vim is
>>apparently not able to do proper highlighting when jumping to the
>>end of the file not going through other parts of the code before.
> 
> 
> Vim does check parts of the buffer it hasn't displayed, but it only
> goes back so much. Or would you rather have Vim check the entire
> buffer every time you change it?
> 
> 
>>Going back to the point where triple quotes comment begun (quite in
>>the middle of the file) and back to the end did the trick to get
>>proper highlighting again.
> 
> 
> Apparently you quoted so much that Vim didn't go all the way back to
> check.
> 
> 
>>Apparently Vim syntax highlighting analyses only the code it has
>>already 'seen' within the editing window. This is not what I expect
>>from a mature editor.
> 
> 
> Well, the problem is in your head, not with the editor. It uses sane
> defaults to keep things fast. If you quote such a large amount of
> text, wouldn't it be better to just store it in a text file? You could
> also use the fact that Python joins consecutive string constants and
> quote each paragraph:
> 
> """Some text.
> blablabla
> """
> """
> Some more text blabla
> """
> 
> It'll result in some more quotes, but when running your program it's
> the same, and VIM will be able to highlight it just fine.
The file I was editing was just 22 KByte large having 450 lines, so you 
try here to explain to me, that for speed reasons Vim has to cut it into 
pieces? Stani SPE based on Scintilla does it right, UltraEdit does it 
right, Wing does it right, so what, are we now on a 1 MHz computer with 
128 KByte of memory for all the system and program files what would make 
such approach necessary?
I want my file highlighted in a right way all the time and if it is too 
large to be highlighted I want the editor to give a warning - yes, the 
problem in my head is, that I don't accept bad and buggy software. I 
have edited enough files with the line oriented vi to know what I am 
speaking about.

> 
> 
>>I have stopped here, because I found this problem after three
>>seconds of using it, so imagine how much other problems will become
>>apparent after using it three hours, right?
> 
> 
> Wrong. I have used Vim for years, and only found a few minor issues,
> nothing more.
Let us know about them, so that we know it too.

> 
> 
>>Vim similar as Wing has no [View] menu entry one can use for
>>changing the text appearance in any reasonable Windows program, so
>>the ancient Unix/Linux is still there with the system font as
>>default setting for displaying text... It looks as I were in a DOS
>>box, not in a text editor on Windows.
> 
> 
> I can do "Edit -> Select font" just fine...
> 
> 
>>Loading a 100 MByte large file into this editor which pretends to be
>>able to edit files of any size results in an Error.
> 
> 
> Never had problems with that.
But this is what I have experienced. Are you on a *nix system?
I speak here about Microsoft Windows XP SP 2 on a 3GByte RAM equipped 
Pentium 4 and Cream-Vim installed by
http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/cream/cream-0-33-1-gvim-6-3-90-1.exe
 
.
>>I was not able to find how to do rectangular select/paste
> 
> Control+V to do block selects. After that, just paste.
> 
>>and there was no code folding for Python script code available.
> 
> Yes there is - I'm using it.
But is does not work out of the box for me with the download I have 
mentioned and I was not able to fix it as I tried.
> 
> 
>>It was just waste of my time to try it out again.
> 
> This is true for most things in life: If you go in with a negative
> attitude and draw the wrong conclusions, you will only find what you
> expected to find.
> 
> Sybren
Yes, I see your point, but with the increasing speed of the hardware and 
better software quality it is now possible to choose tools which are 
easy to use and don't have a steep learning curve. Best, I don't need 
any tutorial at all and can go with it directly. I am used to Microsoft 
Windows way of designing user interfaces, so I expect software running 
on Windows to provide what I am used to.
The times where the user had to adopt to the software are over. Now 
there are all preconditions available making it possible to adopt the 
software to the user.

What other editing tools have you already evaluated? I tried as many as 
possible including Vim before I decided to spend money on purchasing 
UltraEdit and inspite of the fact, that there are so many new editors 
there, I still see no chance to replace UltraEdit with any other editing 
tool and believe me, I would do it if it were possible, because I don't 
like closed source solutions. I don't like the way the menues of 
UltraEdit are designed and I have trouble to understand the text in the 
he

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Sybren Stuvel]

Claudio Grondi enlightened us with:
> The file I was editing was just 22 KByte large having 450 lines, so
> you try here to explain to me, that for speed reasons Vim has to cut
> it into pieces?

Yep.

> Stani SPE based on Scintilla does it right, UltraEdit does it right,
> Wing does it right, so what, are we now on a 1 MHz computer with 128
> KByte of memory for all the system and program files what would make
> such approach necessary?

I'm giving you the reason why syntax highlighting in VIM doesn't
always do what you expect. I never said it wasn't a silly reason.
Having said that, A quick Ctrl+L usually fixes this for me.

>> Wrong. I have used Vim for years, and only found a few minor
>> issues, nothing more.
> Let us know about them, so that we know it too.

Syntax highlighting is awfully slow on files with very long lines.
That's the only thing I can think of now. And it's fixed in the
upcoming VIM 7.

> But this is what I have experienced. Are you on a *nix system?

Yep.

> I speak here about Microsoft Windows XP SP 2 on a 3GByte RAM
> equipped Pentium 4 and Cream-Vim installed

I use Vim and GVim, on a 1.25 GB RAM equipped AthlonXP, on Ubuntu
Linux.

> But is does not work out of the box for me with the download I have
> mentioned and I was not able to fix it as I tried.

That's probably because when you install Vim in Windows, it changes
key settings to be more appropriate for Windows. Rip those
Win32-compatability crap out of your .vimrc (or is it called _vimrc
there?) so you can use all the keys everybody else can.

> Yes, I see your point, but with the increasing speed of the hardware
> and better software quality it is now possible to choose tools which
> are easy to use and don't have a steep learning curve.

True. I find Vim very easy to use, and it didn't take me long to learn
it. It does help if you're on a platform which supplies 'vimtutor'
along with vim, and doesn't mangle the keybindings, though.

> I am used to Microsoft Windows way of designing user interfaces, so
> I expect software running on Windows to provide what I am used to.

LOL don't get me started on the Microsoft way in combination with my
expectations...

> The times where the user had to adopt to the software are over.

You're very wrong there. Users have to adopt to the software, unless
they write their own. You also have to adopt to all sort of things in
your life, so what's the big issue with software?

To give you a few examples: I live in The Netherlands, so I buy cars
with the steering wheel on the left. I have to use that, no matter
what I want - unless I take the effort to import a car from abroad.  I
have to screw to the right to get a screw inside a piece of wood. I
have to adopt to that. That's the way things work.

> Now there are all preconditions available making it possible to
> adopt the software to the user.

And most users get afraid of all those options they can set and all
those things they can tweak to get the software to adopt to their
whishes.

> What other editing tools have you already evaluated? I tried as many
> as possible including Vim before I decided to spend money on
> purchasing UltraEdit and inspite of the fact, that there are so many
> new editors there, I still see no chance to replace UltraEdit with
> any other editing tool

I've tried UltraEdit, didn't like it, went back to Vim. Same with
other editors. I don't like the way I get popups in UE when I want to
search or replace something. I haven't tested this, but I haven't seen
a way to re-wrap text like Vim can - even in this post it can rewrap
your text without messing up the '>' symbols in front of it. It can
even rewrap comments, strings etc. in source code without messing up
indentation or marker characters.

> Just evaluate yourself at least SPE and Wing and come back to tell
> here about your experience comparing them to Vim

I'll see if I can get around to it. I'm very busy atm, but I'm busy
doing Python programming, so perhaps I can do some with the IDEs you
mentioned.

Hmm... neither are bundled with Ubuntu.

SPE is already annoying because of all the new windows it opens... Not
a good start. I remember using it before, to check out the Blender
integration. Unfortunately, that didn't work. I'll give it another go.

WingIDE is commercial software, which I'm not going to use. I'm not
all against commercial software, but if there is a Free alternative,
I'd rather use that.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
 Frank Zappa
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Sybren Stuvel]

Sybren Stuvel enlightened us with:
> SPE is already annoying because of all the new windows it opens...
> Not a good start. I remember using it before, to check out the
> Blender integration. Unfortunately, that didn't work. I'll give it
> another go.

I downloaded it, tried to run it, then it stopped with a message that
it needs a newer wxPython version than the one that comes with Ubuntu
Linux. Since this release of Ubuntu is two months old and rather up to
date with all things Python, IMO the SPE builders are pushing it a
little too much by requiring even a newer version of wxPython.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
 Frank Zappa
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[bonono]

I have been using vi/vim for a very long time and love it(now using
ion3 + vim, not even gvim on debian), but never found it blend well
with the Windows GUI.

Sybren Stuvel wrote:
> Claudio Grondi enlightened us with:
> > The file I was editing was just 22 KByte large having 450 lines, so
> > you try here to explain to me, that for speed reasons Vim has to cut
> > it into pieces?
>
> Yep.
>
> > Stani SPE based on Scintilla does it right, UltraEdit does it right,
> > Wing does it right, so what, are we now on a 1 MHz computer with 128
> > KByte of memory for all the system and program files what would make
> > such approach necessary?
>
> I'm giving you the reason why syntax highlighting in VIM doesn't
> always do what you expect. I never said it wasn't a silly reason.
> Having said that, A quick Ctrl+L usually fixes this for me.
>
> >> Wrong. I have used Vim for years, and only found a few minor
> >> issues, nothing more.
> > Let us know about them, so that we know it too.
>
> Syntax highlighting is awfully slow on files with very long lines.
> That's the only thing I can think of now. And it's fixed in the
> upcoming VIM 7.
>
> > But this is what I have experienced. Are you on a *nix system?
>
> Yep.
>
> > I speak here about Microsoft Windows XP SP 2 on a 3GByte RAM
> > equipped Pentium 4 and Cream-Vim installed
>
> I use Vim and GVim, on a 1.25 GB RAM equipped AthlonXP, on Ubuntu
> Linux.
>
> > But is does not work out of the box for me with the download I have
> > mentioned and I was not able to fix it as I tried.
>
> That's probably because when you install Vim in Windows, it changes
> key settings to be more appropriate for Windows. Rip those
> Win32-compatability crap out of your .vimrc (or is it called _vimrc
> there?) so you can use all the keys everybody else can.
>
> > Yes, I see your point, but with the increasing speed of the hardware
> > and better software quality it is now possible to choose tools which
> > are easy to use and don't have a steep learning curve.
>
> True. I find Vim very easy to use, and it didn't take me long to learn
> it. It does help if you're on a platform which supplies 'vimtutor'
> along with vim, and doesn't mangle the keybindings, though.
>
> > I am used to Microsoft Windows way of designing user interfaces, so
> > I expect software running on Windows to provide what I am used to.
>
> LOL don't get me started on the Microsoft way in combination with my
> expectations...
>
> > The times where the user had to adopt to the software are over.
>
> You're very wrong there. Users have to adopt to the software, unless
> they write their own. You also have to adopt to all sort of things in
> your life, so what's the big issue with software?
>
> To give you a few examples: I live in The Netherlands, so I buy cars
> with the steering wheel on the left. I have to use that, no matter
> what I want - unless I take the effort to import a car from abroad.  I
> have to screw to the right to get a screw inside a piece of wood. I
> have to adopt to that. That's the way things work.
>
> > Now there are all preconditions available making it possible to
> > adopt the software to the user.
>
> And most users get afraid of all those options they can set and all
> those things they can tweak to get the software to adopt to their
> whishes.
>
> > What other editing tools have you already evaluated? I tried as many
> > as possible including Vim before I decided to spend money on
> > purchasing UltraEdit and inspite of the fact, that there are so many
> > new editors there, I still see no chance to replace UltraEdit with
> > any other editing tool
>
> I've tried UltraEdit, didn't like it, went back to Vim. Same with
> other editors. I don't like the way I get popups in UE when I want to
> search or replace something. I haven't tested this, but I haven't seen
> a way to re-wrap text like Vim can - even in this post it can rewrap
> your text without messing up the '>' symbols in front of it. It can
> even rewrap comments, strings etc. in source code without messing up
> indentation or marker characters.
>
> > Just evaluate yourself at least SPE and Wing and come back to tell
> > here about your experience comparing them to Vim
>
> I'll see if I can get around to it. I'm very busy atm, but I'm busy
> doing Python programming, so perhaps I can do some with the IDEs you
> mentioned.
>
> Hmm... neither are bundled with Ubuntu.
>
> SPE is already annoying because of all the new windows it opens... Not
> a good start. I remember using it before, to check out the Blender
> integration. Unfortunately, that didn't work. I'll give it another go.
>
> WingIDE is commercial software, which I'm not going to use. I'm not
> all against commercial software, but if there is a Free alternative,
> I'd rather use that.
>
> Sybren
> --
> The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
> capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
> safety labels off of everything and let the 

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[BartlebyScrivener]

If you're on Windows XP why not try Xemacs? That's free and does syntax
highlighting etc. Doesn't have a problem with large files and so on.

rpd

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Claudio Grondi]

BartlebyScrivener wrote:
> If you're on Windows XP why not try Xemacs? That's free and does syntax
> highlighting etc. Doesn't have a problem with large files and so on.
> 
> rpd
> 
Installed:
http://ftp.dk.xemacs.org/pub/emacs/xemacs/binaries/win32/InnoSetup/XEmacs%20Setup%2021.4.18-1.exe

Requesting help file I have got a plain text window with following text:

Copyright (c) 1985, 1996 Free Software Foundation, Inc. See end for 
conditions.

You are looking at the Emacs tutorial.

Emacs commands generally involve the CONTROL key (sometimes labelled
CTRL or CTL) or the META key.  On some keyboards, the META key is
labelled ALT or EDIT or something else (for example, on Sun keyboards,
the diamond key to the left of the spacebar is META).  If you have no
META key, you can use ESC instead.  Rather than write out META or
CONTROL each time we want you to prefix a character, we'll use the
following abbreviations:

  C-  means hold the CONTROL key while typing the character 
  Thus, C-f would be: hold the CONTROL key and type f.
  M-  means hold the META key down while typing .  If there
  is no META key, type , release it, then type the
  character .

Important note: to end the Emacs session, type C-x C-c.  (Two characters.)
The characters ">>" at the left margin indicate directions for you to
try using a command.

...

Out of the box after installation of
http://ftp.dk.xemacs.org/pub/emacs/xemacs/binaries/win32/InnoSetup/XEmacs%20Setup%2021.4.18-1.exe
gives me an editor window, but
- no syntax highlighting for edited Python file (no idea how to get it)
- no line numbering (a menu item is there, but clicking on it doesn't 
change anything)
- no ruler (a menu item is there, but clicking has no effect)
- [CTRL]+MouseSelection results in some editing action I don't 
understand ...

I know emacx from the ancient time of computer technology, but I have 
never made to learn how to control it.
By the way: I was a keyboard fan years ago, but now I would be glad to 
have some basic typing capability on my mouse, because most of the time 
I am moving the mouse, not typing much text on a keyboard even editing 
scripts.

Claudio
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[BartlebyScrivener]

Go to Options. Near the bottom, it will say "Edit Init.File"  Click on
it.

Make an entry on a separate line near the top as follows

(require 'python-mode)

Then save the init file.

When you open files with a .py extension xemacs should automatically go
into "python mode"

If you read the init.el file it will teach you a little about how to
configure it. If you don't care about that and only want a python
editor, then just add the line above.

rpd

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Claudio Grondi]

BartlebyScrivener wrote:
> Go to Options. Near the bottom, it will say "Edit Init.File"  Click on
> it.
Done. A completely new file was created.
> 
> Make an entry on a separate line near the top as follows
> 
> (require 'python-mode)
> 
> Then save the init file.
Have copy/pasted to it including braces

(require 'python-mode)

No effect on reopening emacs, except:
"
(1) (initialization/error) An error has occurred while loading 
c:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Admin\.xemacs\init.el:

Cannot open load file: python-mode

To ensure normal operation, you should investigate the cause of the 
error in your initialization file and remove it.  Use the `-debug-init' 
option to XEmacs to view a complete error backtrace.
"



To summarize my evaluation of XEmacs here:
   - nothing valuable for Python script development out of the box or 
easy achievable in its Windows version.

XEmacs is out from beeing considered an option for someone looking for 
an editor helping him doing his Python scripting.



My final conclusions (I am tired now of evaluating):

The only worth to consider freeware option to Wingide on Windows seems 
to be SPE (or other Scintilla based free editors with the disadvantage 
of not having specific support for Python scripting).

The best not free overall text editing tool on Windows is UltraEdit, but 
for someone interested in an editor for the limited purpose of editing 
Python scripts Wingide in its Personal Version is probably actual a much 
better choice (and multiplatform).

As closing words I would like to encourage anyone to start using
SPE ( http://pythonide.stani.be )
and contribute to its development making it beside IDLE a further 
standard editor for Python scripting having the potential to become one 
day a serious competitor to Wing. Why? Just because I decided to start 
using it and am eager to see it improving.

Claudio

> 
> When you open files with a .py extension xemacs should automatically go
> into "python mode"
> 
> If you read the init.el file it will teach you a little about how to
> configure it. If you don't care about that and only want a python
> editor, then just add the line above.
> 
> rpd
> 
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Tony Nelson]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 ...
> I get the feeling that a ot of people working with heavy IDEs don't
> realize how capable vim/emacs are, so I'll give a brief rundown of what
> my Vim environment does for me.  (I do Python web development)--if you
> don't like the Vi keybindings, the Cream package is Vim that behaves
> like a regular modeless editor but with all of vim's power (and a nice
> embedded Python interpreter for writing extensions):
> 
> 1. Python syntax checking: as I'm typing along, if I input a syntax
> error then the line is immediately highlighted in red.  Useful for
> catching brainos like:
> if a=1:
> (which will highlight in red when I hit enter, point out that I need ==
> instead of =).

What do you use to do this?  Cream doesn't seem to do this oob.


> 2. Normal tag-jump stuff: Ctrl-click on a function/method call (or
> class or whatever) will jump to the function/method/class definition
> (Ctrl-T works as well if you don't like clicking).  It keeps a stack of
> visited files so you can drill down through your call stack and then
> pop back up to where you came from.

Do you set up ctags for this?  I get error messages "E433: No tags file" 
and "E426: tag not found: xxx" when I Ctrl-click on a method call.


> 3. Python class browsing stuff: A Class menu shows the parent and child
> classes of the one you're currently in, and all the methods of the
> current class; selecting any of the above jumps to the appropriate file
> and line.

Is this the Tag List?


> 4. Interactive documentation stuff: When I type an open-paren, it looks
> to see what the prior keyword is and displays help for it in the status
> line (preferring Python documentation, then docstrings, then comments
> before the function/method/class definition).  Even if there's no
> help/comments, it'll show the arguments that the function takes.  So
> if, say, I type:
> 
> cmp(
> 
> then the status line displays:
> 
> cmp(x, y) Compare the two objects X and Y and return an integer
> according to ...
> 
> If I hit F1 it'll show the full help text.  Often the arguments are
> enough, and I find the status-line display a lot less intrusive than
> many on-the-fly help systems I've seen.

This stuff doesn't happen either.  How is it set up?


> 5. A client menu selects which client I want to work in (so, say, I get
> a bug report for Client A, I select them from the menu).  The Class
> menu and other functions respect this (if I'm in the generic Company
> class, the Class menu will list Client A's Company subclass before the
> subclasses of other companies; if I jump to the Company definition,
> it'll go to Company A's client-specific version).  It also restarts
> development httpd servers on the current machine running with conf
> files appropriate to that client.
 ...

Where is this "client menu"?  How is it set up?

TonyN.:'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  '  
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Tony Nelson wrote:
> > 1. Python syntax checking: as I'm typing along, if I input a syntax
> > error then the line is immediately highlighted in red.
>
> What do you use to do this?  Cream doesn't seem to do this oob.

Nope.  I'll try to package up my vimrc and get it uploaded somewhere
next week (busy with holiday stuff).  The meat of it is:

import vim
def cur_x():
return vim.current.window.cursor[1]
def cur_y():
return vim.current.window.cursor[0]
def find_current_block():
block = [vim.current.line]
current = cur_y()-1
while len(block[0])==0 or block[0][0] in " \t#":
current = current - 1
if current < 0:
break
block = [vim.current.buffer[current] ]+ block
return block
def check_current_block():
import code
vim.command("syn clear Error")
block = find_current_block()
length = len(block)
try:
code.compile_command("\n".join(block))
print ""
return 0
except:
(type, value, tb) = sys.exc_info()
line_no = cur_y()-1+value.lineno-length
badline = vim.current.buffer[line_no]
badline = badline.replace('"', '\\"')
print "Error at line %d: " %(line_no+1), badline
return 1

> > 2. Normal tag-jump stuff: Ctrl-click on a function/method call (or
> > class or whatever) will jump to the function/method/class definition
> > (Ctrl-T works as well if you don't like clicking).  It keeps a stack of
> > visited files so you can drill down through your call stack and then
> > pop back up to where you came from.
>
> Do you set up ctags for this?  I get error messages "E433: No tags file"
> and "E426: tag not found: xxx" when I Ctrl-click on a method call.

Umm, either click the "build tags in current directory" button on the
toolbar, or "find . -name '*.py' | ctags -L -" in the top directory of
your python file.

> > 3. Python class browsing stuff: A Class menu shows the parent and child
> > classes of the one you're currently in, and all the methods of the
> > current class; selecting any of the above jumps to the appropriate file
> > and line.
>
> Is this the Tag List?

No, this is more complex, I'll post it w/ the rest of my stuff.

> > 4. Interactive documentation stuff: When I type an open-paren, it looks
[SNIP]
> This stuff doesn't happen either.  How is it set up?

Likewise, I'll post.

> > 5. A client menu selects which client I want to work in (so, say, I get
> > a bug report for Client A, I select them from the menu).  The Class
> > menu and other functions respect this (if I'm in the generic Company
> > class, the Class menu will list Client A's Company subclass before the
> > subclasses of other companies; if I jump to the Company definition,
> > it'll go to Company A's client-specific version).  It also restarts
> > development httpd servers on the current machine running with conf
> > files appropriate to that client.
>  ...
>
> Where is this "client menu"?  How is it set up?

It's a listing of all the clients we work with.  It's a more
project-specific thing, but illustrates that you can easily integrate
vim into whatever your development system looks like (indeed, when I
get a python error in a page on my dev server then it opens the file
where the exception occurred in my vim and jumps to the line, setting
up the stack appropriately).

That stuff I can't post.

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Tony Nelson]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Tony Nelson wrote:
> > > 1. Python syntax checking: as I'm typing along, if I input a syntax
> > > error then the line is immediately highlighted in red.
> >
> > What do you use to do this?  Cream doesn't seem to do this oob.
> 
> Nope.  I'll try to package up my vimrc and get it uploaded somewhere
> next week (busy with holiday stuff).

OK, thanks.

> The meat of it is:
> 
> import vim
> def cur_x():
> return vim.current.window.cursor[1]
> def cur_y():
> return vim.current.window.cursor[0]
> def find_current_block():
> block = [vim.current.line]
> current = cur_y()-1
> while len(block[0])==0 or block[0][0] in " \t#":
> current = current - 1
> if current < 0:
> break
> block = [vim.current.buffer[current] ]+ block
> return block
> def check_current_block():
> import code
> vim.command("syn clear Error")
> block = find_current_block()
> length = len(block)
> try:
> code.compile_command("\n".join(block))
> print ""
> return 0
> except:
> (type, value, tb) = sys.exc_info()
> line_no = cur_y()-1+value.lineno-length
> badline = vim.current.buffer[line_no]
> badline = badline.replace('"', '\\"')
> print "Error at line %d: " %(line_no+1), badline
> return 1

OK, I can tell that this is Python code, not VI script stuff.  I'll need 
to see how your vimrc sets this up.  It looks like learning to use VI 
(even with Cream) would take a few weeks of hard work.


> > > 2. Normal tag-jump stuff: Ctrl-click on a function/method call (or
> > > class or whatever) will jump to the function/method/class definition
> > > (Ctrl-T works as well if you don't like clicking).  It keeps a stack of
> > > visited files so you can drill down through your call stack and then
> > > pop back up to where you came from.
> >
> > Do you set up ctags for this?  I get error messages "E433: No tags file"
> > and "E426: tag not found: xxx" when I Ctrl-click on a method call.
> 
> Umm, either click the "build tags in current directory" button on the
> toolbar, or "find . -name '*.py' | ctags -L -" in the top directory of
> your python file.

OK.


> > > 3. Python class browsing stuff: A Class menu shows the parent and child
> > > classes of the one you're currently in, and all the methods of the
> > > current class; selecting any of the above jumps to the appropriate file
> > > and line.
> >
> > Is this the Tag List?
> 
> No, this is more complex, I'll post it w/ the rest of my stuff.
 ...

Thanks.

TonyN.:'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  '  
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Tony Nelson wrote:
> OK, I can tell that this is Python code, not VI script stuff.  I'll need
> to see how your vimrc sets this up.

vim has a Python interpreter embedded in it (assuming it's a reasonably
complete build--it's possible to leave the interpreter, or even parts
of the vim scripting stuff, out).  I just put .py files in my .vim
directory, import them, and then use ":py myfile.doStuff()" or map keys
to such commands.

The "vim" Python module (included in vim, just "import vim" from your
Python scripts) lets you run vim commands, access
windows/buffers/variables/etc.

Extending vim in Python is far nicer than using vim script, I basically
do all the work in Python and then just :map those functions to
whatever keys I want to use.

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Tony Nelson]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Tony Nelson wrote:
> > OK, I can tell that this is Python code, not VI script stuff.  I'll need
> > to see how your vimrc sets this up.
> 
> vim has a Python interpreter embedded in it (assuming it's a reasonably
> complete build--it's possible to leave the interpreter, or even parts
> of the vim scripting stuff, out).

OK, mine has Python in it.


> I just put .py files in my .vim
> directory, import them, and then use ":py myfile.doStuff()" or map keys
> to such commands.

So, you bind check_current_block() to the Enter key?


> The "vim" Python module (included in vim, just "import vim" from your
> Python scripts) lets you run vim commands, access
> windows/buffers/variables/etc.
 ...

OK.  I see Python in the help.

TonyN.:'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  '  
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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Tony Nelson wrote:
> So, you bind check_current_block() to the Enter key?

Yeah.  The binding's not quite just "check_current_block()"
because you need a bit of magic to keep autoindent working.  I'll post
it with my conf files next week, essentially use = with an empty
vim function wrapper around the python function (instead of ) and
input a character before leaving insert mode that's deleted when you
return (to preserve indent).

My goal is to make my conf files into a decent drop-in so you just put
them in your .vim directory and go, and post them next week.

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Tony Nelson]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Tony Nelson wrote:
> > So, you bind check_current_block() to the Enter key?
> 
> Yeah.  The binding's not quite just "check_current_block()"
> because you need a bit of magic to keep autoindent working.  I'll post
> it with my conf files next week, essentially use = with an empty
> vim function wrapper around the python function (instead of ) and
> input a character before leaving insert mode that's deleted when you
> return (to preserve indent).
> 
> My goal is to make my conf files into a decent drop-in so you just put
> them in your .vim directory and go, and post them next week.

OK, thank you.

TonyN.:'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  '  
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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[jussij]

> I don't like, that one of the latest UltraEdit releases
> was buggy causing 100%CPU load and 2MByte of harddisk
> data traffic beeing idle, so I am looking for an alternative
> for years, but instead of finding it I was forced lately
> to spend money again on renewing my license.

Have you tried the Zeus for Windows programmers editor:

   http://www.zeusedit.com

Zeus is closed source, but it is also very stable, comes
with support for Python and you can even write Zeus
scripts using Python.

Like all software it also has bugs, but when a bug is
reported it is fixed ASAP and a free patch is then
offered for download.

Jussi Jumppanen
Author: Zeus for Windows

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[jussij]

> The best not free overall text editing tool on Windows
> is UltraEdit

As I mentioned before, you should give Zeus a test drive.

Many Zeus users think it is the best programming tool for
the Windows platform:

   http://www.zeusedit.com/awards.html

Jussi Jumppanen
Author: Zeus for Windows

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Claudio Grondi]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>I don't like, that one of the latest UltraEdit releases
>>was buggy causing 100%CPU load and 2MByte of harddisk
>>data traffic beeing idle, so I am looking for an alternative
>>for years, but instead of finding it I was forced lately
>>to spend money again on renewing my license.
> 
> 
> Have you tried the Zeus for Windows programmers editor:
> 
>http://www.zeusedit.com
> 
> Zeus is closed source, but it is also very stable, comes
> with support for Python and you can even write Zeus
> scripts using Python.
> 
> Like all software it also has bugs, but when a bug is
> reported it is fixed ASAP and a free patch is then
> offered for download.
> 
> Jussi Jumppanen
> Author: Zeus for Windows
> 

I was not aware of Zeus, so thank you for telling me about it.

I gave Zeus a try and it passed loading of a large (100 MByte) text file 
(many other text editors fail here). It looks at the first glance quite 
good, but I am a bit lost because of so many different menu items.

Compared to UltraEdit/SPE I am missing the column mode I extensively use 
in my everyday work (rectangular select/copy/paste is there) and the 
autocompletion of any input word as e.g. a very long variable names I 
have defined in preceeding text.

I was not yet able to find how to change the font in the text area and 
how to get rid of the italics used for displaying strings. In UltraEdit 
  I can choose any font in any style available on the system for the 
text area and in the syntax highlighting I can use bold/italics style.
Configuration of colors and keyboard keys seem to be there, macro 
recording/playing, too. The line numbering has a small delay behind the 
displayed text what is a bit annoying (but only when going to the end of 
the 100 MByte file), but sure not a problem. Code folding for Python is 
there, but I run into the problem of not folding the code of a Python 
class.

I have not put much time into the evaluation yet, but my impression is, 
that it is a professional editor, focused on supporting programming and 
compilation of C programs, but probably with not sufficient support for 
Python specifics, except the Python syntax in writing macros, where 
access to the edit window is got with 'import zeus' and the macro itself 
is just Python code using the imported module and working on the opened 
text.

In my eyes with $40 for a license a worth to be evaluated professional 
editor, but not for me because of lack(?) of the column mode and not 
(yet?) found possibility to select a font for the in the editing area 
displayed text.

Claudio
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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[jussij]

> I gave Zeus a try and it passed loading of a large (100 MByte)
> text file (many other text editors fail here).

Zeus is not designed as a large file editor :(

It will try to load the entire file into memory so when you open
these very large files the RAM is quickly used up.

> It looks at the first glance quite good, but I am a bit lost
> because of so many different menu items.

Zeus is fairly complex just because it has so many features (ie class
browsing, intellisening, compiler support, ftp editing, templates,
macros, workspaces etc etc).

For this reason I would recommend:
1) Select the Help, Help Contents Menu
2) Click on the User Manual section
3) Click on the Quick Start section
3) Read a few of the Quick Start links

> Compared to UltraEdit/SPE I am missing the column mode I
> extensively use in my everyday work (rectangular select/copy/paste
> is there)

Zeus has several text marking modes one of which is column marking:

   http://www.zeusedit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60
   http://www.zeusedit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=197

> and the autocompletion of any input word as e.g. a very long
> variable names I have defined in preceeding text.

This feature should be available via the Edit, Auto Complete Word
menu. If it is not working correctly this could be a bug :(

> I was not yet able to find how to change the font in the text area

Options, Editor Options menu, Fonts section and change the
baseline font for the Document View.

> and how to get rid of the italics used for displaying strings.

The syntax highlighting is defined in what Zeus calls a document
type. These are listed using the Options Document Types menu.

So for example to change this for the Python files, edit the
Python Document Type and in the Coloring section, select the
line and block comment categories and un-check the italic
option for this category.

> In UltraEdit I can choose any font in any style available
> on the system for the text area and in the syntax highlighting
> I can use bold/italics style.

The two menus mentioned above do exactly this.

> Code folding for Python is there, but I run into the problem
> of not folding the code of a Python class.

If you post a small example of code to the code folding
section of the Zeus forum:

  http://www.zeusedit.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=8

This will be get fix if it is at all possible to do so.

> but probably with not sufficient support for Python specifics,

Just out of curiosity, what "Python specifics" features would
think are missing?

> In my eyes with $40 for a license a worth to be evaluated
> professional editor, but not for me because of lack(?) of
> the column mode and not (yet?) found possibility to select
> a font for the in the editing area displayed text.

As mentioned above, Zeus does have these features ;)

Jussi Jumppanen
Author: Zeus for Windows

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Tony Nelson wrote:
>  "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > My goal is to make my conf files into a decent drop-in so you just put
> > them in your .vim directory and go, and post them next week.
>
> OK, thank you.
>

FYI, I am still working on this but some changes in vim 7 are requiring
more work than I expected.  On the bright side, there are some nice
features that will allow for cool stuff like debugger info (after
running in a debugger, you'll be able to mouse over variables and get
tooltip popups with their values, etc) when it's done.  I'm talking
with Bram Moolenaar (vim author) on the vim-dev mailing list to try to
get things squared away.

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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[Tony Nelson]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Tony Nelson wrote:
> >  "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > My goal is to make my conf files into a decent drop-in so you just put
> > > them in your .vim directory and go, and post them next week.
> >
> > OK, thank you.
> >
> 
> FYI, I am still working on this but some changes in vim 7 are requiring
> more work than I expected.

I suspected that it might be taking longer than you thought.  No hurry 
from my end.


> On the bright side, there are some nice
> features that will allow for cool stuff like debugger info (after
> running in a debugger, you'll be able to mouse over variables and get
> tooltip popups with their values, etc) when it's done.  I'm talking
> with Bram Moolenaar (vim author) on the vim-dev mailing list to try to
> get things squared away.

Thank you for your efforts.

TonyN.:'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  '  
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Re: Wingide is a beautiful application

[SPE - Stani's Python Editor]

Sybren Stuvel schreef:

> Sybren Stuvel enlightened us with:
> > SPE is already annoying because of all the new windows it opens...
> > Not a good start.
If you mean terminal windows, that has gone with the latest release
0.8.1.d, see http://pythonide.stani.be/blog

> > I remember using it before, to check out the
> > Blender integration. Unfortunately, that didn't work. I'll give it
> > another go.
>
> I downloaded it, tried to run it, then it stopped with a message that
> it needs a newer wxPython version than the one that comes with Ubuntu
> Linux. Since this release of Ubuntu is two months old and rather up to
> date with all things Python, IMO the SPE builders are pushing it a
> little too much by requiring even a newer version of wxPython.

This is a misinterpretation, SPE failed because of something else. (As
would have become clear if you would have run SPE in the debugging mode
'python SPE.py --debug'.) The version number displayed is the one on
which SPE is being developed, not the one required (displayed on
webpage). AFAIK SPE runs fine with wxPython 2.5.4.1+ I run SPE myself
on the same release of Ubuntu as you (Breezy ?)  and it now works very
well.

>From the SPE news blog:

SPE was for the first time tested on and improved for Ubuntu (and
hopefully so for Linux in general). I adapted SPE such that it can ran
out of the box of an archive (zip or tar.gz). This has the advantage
that Linux (but also Mac and Windows) don't have to install SPE anymore
but can just run it out of a folder or USB stick, provided the right
version of wxPython (2.6) is installed on the system as it is always
the case with Ubuntu boxes. If you want to install SPE in this way, use
the -no_setup.zip distribution:

   1. uninstall previous version of SPE (VERY IMPORTANT, otherwise SPE
won't run)
   2. download and unpack the archive
SPE-0.8.1.d-wx2.6.1.0-no_setup.zip
   3. run SPE with 'python SPE.py'

If it doesn't work, let me know privately.

Stani

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Re: SPE [was: Wingide is a beautiful application]

[Sybren Stuvel]

SPE - Stani's Python Editor enlightened us with:
> This is a misinterpretation, SPE failed because of something else.
> (As would have become clear if you would have run SPE in the
> debugging mode 'python SPE.py --debug'.)

IMO displayed messages should be clear without having to resort to a
debugging mode. Debugging mode should only be for removing bugs, not
for enlightenment of the user.

Anyway, apt-getting spe now... which doesn't work:

Unpacking python-wxversion (from .../python-wxversion_2.6.1.1.1ubuntu2_all.deb)
...
dpkg: error processing
/var/cache/apt/archives/python-wxversion_2.6.1.1.1ubuntu2 _all.deb
(--unpack):
 trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/wxversion.py',
 which is also in package wxpython2.5.3

If it's so hard to get the requirements installed, I'd rather stick to
Vim.

> I adapted SPE such that it can ran out of the box of an archive (zip
> or tar.gz). This has the advantage that Linux (but also Mac and
> Windows) don't have to install SPE anymore but can just run it out
> of a folder or USB stick, provided the right version of wxPython
> (2.6) is installed on the system as it is always the case with
> Ubuntu boxes.

Ehm... I think I've clearly shown that, at least as far as the Ubuntu
packages go, not all requirements are always there on an Ubuntu
system.

> If it doesn't work, let me know privately.

Why? What's wrong with this newsgroup?

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
 Frank Zappa
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: SPE [was: Wingide is a beautiful application]

[SPE - Stani's Python Editor]

Sybren Stuvel wrote:
> IMO displayed messages should be clear without having to resort to a
> debugging mode.
I can agree on that.

> Debugging mode should only be for removing bugs, not
> for enlightenment of the user.
Unless he doesn't follow the installation instructions.

> Anyway, apt-getting spe now... which doesn't work:
>
> Unpacking python-wxversion (from 
> .../python-wxversion_2.6.1.1.1ubuntu2_all.deb)
> ...
> dpkg: error processing
> /var/cache/apt/archives/python-wxversion_2.6.1.1.1ubuntu2 _all.deb
> (--unpack):
>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/wxversion.py',
>  which is also in package wxpython2.5.3
> If it's so hard to get the requirements installed, I'd rather stick to
> Vim.
It is so hard to contact the person who packages SPE for Ubuntu. I
contacted him but I get no answer. I am new to Ubuntu (or Linux in
general), so I would not have a clue how that works (apart from time
needed for it).

If you would have read the blog (http://pythonide.stani.be/blog), you
could clearly read this:

"""
SPE was for the first time tested on and improved for Ubuntu (and
hopefully so for Linux in general). I adapted SPE such that it can ran
out of the box of an archive (zip or tar.gz) (...) If you want to
install SPE in this way, use the -no_setup.zip distribution:

   1. uninstall previous version of SPE (VERY IMPORTANT, otherwise SPE
won't run)
   2. download and unpack the archive
SPE-0.8.1.d-wx2.6.1.0-no_setup.zip
   3. run SPE with 'python SPE.py'
"""

If you follow these three steps nothing more, nothing less, you are up
and running with SPE in one minute. I don't know how can I make it more
easy. Luckily other Ubuntu users had no problems and are running the
latest SPE already on Ubuntu.

> > I adapted SPE such that it can ran out of the box of an archive (zip
> > or tar.gz). This has the advantage that Linux (but also Mac and
> > Windows) don't have to install SPE anymore but can just run it out
> > of a folder or USB stick, provided the right version of wxPython
> > (2.6) is installed on the system as it is always the case with
> > Ubuntu boxes.
>
> Ehm... I think I've clearly shown that, at least as far as the Ubuntu
> packages go, not all requirement"s are always there on an Ubuntu
> system.

Supposing you use Ubuntu 5.10 "The Breezy Badger", all the requirements
are there: wxPython 2.6 That is all SPE needs. (If you still use Hoary,
read here http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/wxPython_20with_20Ubuntu)
So you have only clearly shown that you didn't read the instructions. I
wish SPE can be retrieved by apt-get but that's beyond my control.

> > If it doesn't work, let me know privately.
>
> Why? What's wrong with this newsgroup?
Nothing, just thought it might be off topic, SPE has forums or
newsgroups for that.

So follow this recipee:

- apt-get wxPython 2.6 (in case you don't have)

- uninstall your previous SPE attempts (no '_spe' or 'sm' folder may be
present in site-packages)
- get
http://download.berlios.de/python/SPE-0.8.1.d-wx2.6.1.0-no_setup.zip
and unpack it
- run SPE (python SPE.py)

Still not working?

Stani
--
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http://pythonide.stani.be/screenshots
http://pythonide.stani.be/manual/html/manual.html

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Re: SPE [was: Wingide is a beautiful application]

[Sybren Stuvel]

SPE - Stani's Python Editor enlightened us with:
> If you would have read the blog (http://pythonide.stani.be/blog),
> you could clearly read this:

I haven't.

>2. download and unpack the archive
>SPE-0.8.1.d-wx2.6.1.0-no_setup.zip
>
> If you follow these three steps nothing more, nothing less, you are
> up and running with SPE in one minute. I don't know how can I make
> it more easy.

You could start by adding the zip file to the download page. Even the
blog entry you mention doesn't contain the URL to that file.

> Supposing you use Ubuntu 5.10 "The Breezy Badger", all the
> requirements are there: wxPython 2.6 That is all SPE needs.

Well, in that case the SPE package that's contained in the Universe
respository is broken. Besides, it was wxPython 2.5.3 that was
insalled on my Breezy box, after I upgraded from Hoary, and not 2.6.

> So you have only clearly shown that you didn't read the
> instructions. I wish SPE can be retrieved by apt-get but that's
> beyond my control.

No it isn't. All you need to do is publish proper packages, and set up
a Debian repository. Then all people need is to add one line to their
sources.list, and they can use apt-get.

> - apt-get wxPython 2.6 (in case you don't have)

That would be "apt-get install python-wxgtk2.6". wxpython2.6 is
mentioned, but python-wxgtk2.6 is actually installable. At least, it
would be if it didn't conflict with the version of wxPython I have
currently installed. I had to uninstall 2.5.3 first, because a simple
upgrade didn't work.

> - get
> http://download.berlios.de/python/SPE-0.8.1.d-wx2.6.1.0-no_setup.zip
> and unpack it

Finally, an URL.

> Still not working?

It runs now, but some things aren't working. When I open a file and
click on the "browse" tab, I see the current directory. If I then
double-click on a Python file, I'd expect SPE to open it, but nothing
happens. Hmmm... and now SPE has crashed. No errors on the terminal,
but the GUI simply doesn't repaint anymore.

Sorry mate, it looks like a promising project, but it just doesn't do
it for me. Way too much hassle for something that crashes on the first
try.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
 Frank Zappa
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: SPE [was: Wingide is a beautiful application]

[SPE - Stani's Python Editor]

Sybren Stuvel wrote:
> It runs now, but some things aren't working.
Besides the crashing down, what else? I am very curious.

> When I open a file and
> click on the "browse" tab, I see the current directory. If I then
> double-click on a Python file, I'd expect SPE to open it, but nothing
> happens. Hmmm... and now SPE has crashed. No errors on the terminal,
> but the GUI simply doesn't repaint anymore.
>
> Sorry mate, it looks like a promising project, but it just doesn't do
> it for me. Way too much hassle for something that crashes on the first
> try.
What does crash on the second try? Any bug that makes SPE crash won't
survive long if reported. So, thanks for the bug report! I fixed it and
the fix is in subversion. If there is anything else you want to have
fixed for next release, just drop a line.

But well.., sorry for all the too much hassle,
Stani

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