Re: using python in web applications
On 2011-09-11 02:50, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: I replied to that one off list I guess, but I figured Django was way more overhead than I wanted, doesn't really fit with solving the speed issue. Depending on your needs, you may find something like bottle or Flask a better choice then. Django can be scaled down a lot, but it's a full-featured framework at its heart. Bottle is pretty minimal (IIRC it doesn't even come with any templating). Flask is somewhere in between as it bundles Werkzeug (a pure WSGI framework) with Jinja (a template library) with some glue code. I have used Flask in the past but often found myself implementing half of Django anyway, which is why I eventually switched. When I only need a bare API with no database and without templates, I usually go for Bottle these days. If you feel like coding closer to the metal and care more about performance than readability, you might also find Twisted useful. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: using python in web applications
In article mailman.1164.1316093103.27778.python-l...@python.org, Alan Plum m...@alanplum.com wrote: Django can be scaled down a lot, but it's a full-featured framework at its heart. You can pick and chose which parts of django you want to use. You don't need to use any of the Django model stuff. You don't need to use any of the template system. You can tear out all or most of the default middleware. At that point, about all that's left is the route parser and dispatch code. The nice thing about this is that as you incrementally discover which pieces of it you really do need, it's easy to pull them in. That being said, we've made a lot of use of Tornado for small stand-alone web services with just a couple of routes. In retrospect, it's unclear if there's any justifiable argument for why we use both Tornado and Django, other than hysterical raisins. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: using python in web applications
On Sep 10, 1:54 pm, Littlefield, Tyler ty...@tysdomain.com wrote: I'm not feeling particularly masochistic, so I do not want to develop this project in PHP; essentially I'm looking to build a web-based MMO. Google have been promoting the use of appengine along with HTML5 JS to produce games. One advantage of using GAE to host the server is it takes care of the scaling for you. I found these presentations fascinating: http://cc-2011-html5-games.appspot.com/#1 http://io-2011-html5-games-hr.appspot.com/#1 This article covers the process in a little more depth: http://clouddbs.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-to-write-html5-game-in-30-days-with.html Google are also aggregating platform-specific info here: http://code.google.com/games Hope this helps (and let us know when you have something to show off!) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: using python in web applications
Littlefield, Tyler ty...@tysdomain.com wrote: I don't much care for PHP, but the thing that can be said for it is it's pretty quick. How does Python compare? PHP is quick for development, in that you can slap together some schlock and have it mostly work. The result, however, is usually schlock. The performance of the language itself is almost entirely irrelevant; the execution time is swamped by the network overhead. I'm also curious what databases are suggested? I've always done most of my work in MYSql, but from what I understand postgresql is becoming more popular to. Well, that's a religious argument. Personally, I've always been confused by the draw of MySql. From the very beginning, Postgres has always been more powerful, more reliable, more standard-compliant, and more professional. -- Tim Roberts, t...@probo.com Providenza Boekelheide, Inc. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: using python in web applications
+1 for PostgreSQL. It's faster than MySQL for years now, and is much more seriously featured. If you don't need ACID properties (transactions stuff) you should also give Document-based databases like MongoDB a try. It changed my code life. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: using python in web applications
I am agree with postgresql i don' t have any problem, also is better for big applications. And Python is always better language than PHP if you' re going to create a web app. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -Original Message- From: Tim Roberts t...@probo.com Sender: python-list-bounces+hidura=gmail@python.org Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:48:01 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: using python in web applications Littlefield, Tyler ty...@tysdomain.com wrote: I don't much care for PHP, but the thing that can be said for it is it's pretty quick. How does Python compare? PHP is quick for development, in that you can slap together some schlock and have it mostly work. The result, however, is usually schlock. The performance of the language itself is almost entirely irrelevant; the execution time is swamped by the network overhead. I'm also curious what databases are suggested? I've always done most of my work in MYSql, but from what I understand postgresql is becoming more popular to. Well, that's a religious argument. Personally, I've always been confused by the draw of MySql. From the very beginning, Postgres has always been more powerful, more reliable, more standard-compliant, and more professional. -- Tim Roberts, t...@probo.com Providenza Boekelheide, Inc. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: using python in web applications
On 9/9/2011 10:19 PM, Ben Finney wrote: Littlefield, Tylerty...@tysdomain.com writes: I'm curious if there are some good solutions for using Python in web applications. Start with: URL:http://docs.python.org/howto/webservers.html#frameworks URL:http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks Awesome, will do, thanks. and try your criteria against what you find there. -- Take care, Ty Web: http://tds-solutions.net The Aspen project: a light-weight barebones mud engine http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud Sent from my toaster. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: using python in web applications
[troll] For a serious web based MMO you'd rather stick to low level and forget about bloated Object Relational Mapping java-like layered kind of frameworks that are made for Rapid Applications Development, not for efficiency. [/troll] Eve Online, a well known MMORPG was developped with stackless python : http://highscalability.com/eve-online-architecture You mentioned nginx so I can tell you I personally use Linux + nginx + mongodb (pymongo) + Python 3 version of cherrypy (with Mako templates) and it's working fine after some tuning. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: using python in web applications
On 9/10/2011 5:35 PM, Laurent wrote: [troll] For a serious web based MMO you'd rather stick to low level and forget about bloated Object Relational Mapping java-like layered kind of frameworks that are made for Rapid Applications Development, not for efficiency. [/troll] I replied to that one off list I guess, but I figured Django was way more overhead than I wanted, doesn't really fit with solving the speed issue. Eve Online, a well known MMORPG was developped with stackless python : http://highscalability.com/eve-online-architecture You mentioned nginx so I can tell you I personally use Linux + nginx + mongodb (pymongo) + Python 3 version of cherrypy (with Mako templates) and it's working fine after some tuning. Awesome, thanks. I'm new to this, so some of that flew over my head, but I'll take a look at all of them. I'm not sure of the relevance of stackless in this case; I was looking into PyPy, but I'm not really sure whether that can be connected with nginx. I guess I could just write the web server in Python and use it from that point. -- Take care, Ty Web: http://tds-solutions.net The Aspen project: a light-weight barebones mud engine http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud Sent from my toaster. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: using python in web applications
Well PyPy is just an implementation of Python among many others (but limited to version 2.7). It is not a web server. If you want to make PyPy interact with a web server (such as nginx) you have to use a special protocol such as WSGI or Fast-CGI. For best performances you can for instance use uWSGI that integrates well with nginx but for this you have to recompile nginx. As you see it's a bit complex, you should read the wikis. May the Force be with you. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: using python in web applications
On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Laurent laurent.pa...@gmail.com wrote: [troll] For a serious web based MMO you'd rather stick to low level and forget about bloated Object Relational Mapping java-like layered kind of frameworks that are made for Rapid Applications Development, not for efficiency. [/troll] I have been trolled. :) For any sort of web-based real-time game, here's two things to avoid: 1) Snoopability and modifiability of crucial data. Everything should be stored on the server, so that if anyone fiddles, all they do is break their own client so it has to reload from the server. 2) Massive waste of resources due to unnecessary frameworks/facilities. I play a lot of Flash games, and right now I'm playing one that has coped poorly with a miniature slashdotting. A spike in popularity resulted in a spike in server lag. I fired up a little packet sniffer, and discovered that every time you do anything in the game, the client makes a new POST request to its server. Why?! It's not that hard to hold a socket connection open! In another context, a similar issue - not a problem as yet (that I know of), but would be if the system were to be slashdotted. A server whose sole purpose is to handle script-instigated requests (using HTTP POST for its transport) sends back a Set-Cookie header with a session id. This implies that the server is holding session data for all these clients that are never going to send that cookie back. The server appears to be IIS with ASP scripts, so presumably stateful sessions are enabled by default, so it's costing memory and processing to hold, then discard, all those useless (and probably empty) session state tags. And presumably many MANY other servers have the same thing. What's YOUR framework doing that you don't need, and how much is it costing you? Yeah, I was trolled bad. :) ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
using python in web applications
Hello all: I'm curious if there are some good solutions for using Python in web applications. I'm not feeling particularly masochistic, so I do not want to develop this project in PHP; essentially I'm looking to build a web-based MMO. I know that you can use nginx with Python with servers like Flask, but I'm not really sure how well all of those work. Since this will be a game, I can expect quite a few users; I've already got quite a lot of interest. I don't much care for PHP, but the thing that can be said for it is it's pretty quick. How does Python compare? Are there some solutions (I was told about PyPy today) that would be quicker that I could still use for the web app? I'm also curious what databases are suggested? I've always done most of my work in MYSql, but from what I understand postgresql is becoming more popular to. Thanks all for the input, -- Take care, Ty Web: http://tds-solutions.net The Aspen project: a light-weight barebones mud engine http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud Sent from my toaster. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: using python in web applications
Littlefield, Tyler ty...@tysdomain.com writes: I'm curious if there are some good solutions for using Python in web applications. Start with: URL:http://docs.python.org/howto/webservers.html#frameworks URL:http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks and try your criteria against what you find there. -- \ “As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of | `\ the demand.” —Josh Billings | _o__) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Using Python for web applications
Dear Python-List members, Sorry for asking such a simple (or possibly complicated) question, as I am new to Python programming. Anyways, I have read online that many popular websites use Python for some of their web-based applications (for example, Reddit), and that lead me to wonder how is this done? Thanks in advance! - Wyatt - Beginning Python Programmer -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python for web applications
Sorry for asking such a simple (or possibly complicated) question, as I am new to Python programming. Anyways, I have read online that many popular websites use Python for some of their web-based applications (for example, Reddit), and that lead me to wonder how is this done? There are various options, the simplest is using a full blown web framework which simplifies about 90% of the work and you only need to code the logic related to your app. Two of the most popular frameworks are django [1] and turbogears [2]. You can also go more low level by designing your own framework from scratch which is something the bigger shops are doing like youtube. In any case there is a wiki page that you might find useful [3]. HTH, Daniel [1] http://www.djangoproject.com/ [2] http://www.turbogears.org/ [3] http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebProgramming -- Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python for web applications
On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Wyatt Schwartz wyattj...@gmail.comwrote: Dear Python-List members, Sorry for asking such a simple (or possibly complicated) question, as I am new to Python programming. Anyways, I have read online that many popular websites use Python for some of their web-based applications (for example, Reddit), and that lead me to wonder how is this done? Thanks in advance! I would recommend that you check out the various web-frameworks which are out there. Django is the framework I use and love, but there are loads out there. Have fun! Zubin -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python for web applications
Wyatt Schwartz wyattj...@gmail.com wrote in news:mailman.33.1277921551.1673.python-l...@python.org: Dear Python-List members, Sorry for asking such a simple (or possibly complicated) question, as I am new to Python programming. Anyways, I have read online that many popular websites use Python for some of their web-based applications (for example, Reddit), and that lead me to wonder how is this done? Thanks in advance! - Wyatt - Beginning Python Programmer For something more server side see: http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks Some nice examples are at: http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebApplications Good luck! :) -- People should read more. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/User:MithrandirAgain All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost; the old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring; renenwed shall be blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
