Re: [Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[Alok Gandhi]

>
> you spent a year developing a muscle plugin system. So you spend a year
> studying math, anatomy and any other useful resources to finally write your
> plugin from scratch. Would you not consider that intellectual property?

This definitely constitutes an IP.

Not talking about the implementation here, I suggest using some sort of
licensing. The Maya node/nodes should be licensed. Licensing term depends
on you but from what I understand, in your case, the node is to be used in
a rig. The clients should get a license for the node. How they use it
depends on them, maybe they use it on the rig you provided or maybe they
make their own rigs using the node. You can restrict activation of the node
based on the mac address of the machine. This ensures that the node is
licensed for 'a' machine. The clients can have as many rigs as they want
running on a machine. This will create a problem with rendering on the farm
if the client does not use any sort of caching (Alembic or something else)
where the mac address is not known beforehand. Either you have to supply
license for each rendering machine or you can give an unlimited number of
nodes for a reasonable discounted price. Usually, this is not a problem
because most modern pipelines use Alembic cache for rendering. So for
caching pipelines, you can supply a license for a number of seats. You can
even benefit from the floating license schemes, for that, you have to look
into license servers. Either way, this simply means that a license is used
per machine per Maya session.

I encourage you to start looking at the licensing workflows, understand
them and implement them in your code.

- Alok

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Re: [Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[Rudi Hammad]

Thanks for suggestions guys. I' ll try what you say and keep you posted if 
it works.

I also thought that I can do something with the  MSceneMessage::kAfterOpen. 
Maybe something like --> after the scene is opened, make the custom node 
delete what is selected when it is created? Because when a new node is 
created, it is automatically selected, so why not just make it delete it 
self after the scene is opened?

I'll keep you posted on any progress.

R

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Re: [Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[Cedric Bazillou]

I know all too well what you are referring to:
i always though maya strongest point was its nodal nature and strong API ( 
so obviously all my rig were flatten into custom nodes:  at some point i 
even combine all  of them into a biped node and question the use of 
transform hierarchy to interact with it directly with an uber manipulator).

Protection wise its a lost cause ( every drm system by nature only prevent 
the majority of people from unregistered use of your product: but it wont 
stop motivated one), 
Its an hyper specialized field of its own, and like everything what are 
your priorities ?( producing content, extending your client base, providing 
support, custom solutions etc)

For me the most secured way to protect your plugin is for it to stay on 
computer/device not connected to the internet...

1 year is such a small amount of time  when you are a working professional 
and have limited free time + energy to devote to personal projects,you 
usually can only scratch the surface of one of the fields you mention above.
I value more the learning process than the result of my experiment : like 
used toys im not attached to my tools/plug-ins but to what they help me 
achieved.


if your selling a rig  as an asset maybe you can encode the data/mesh and 
do some check sum on volume / point count / name / hierarchy ?
Maybe some kind of combo with an encrypted alembic file feeding a reader 
node ( for the validation part ) which then output some mpxdata to your 
regular node.


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Re: [Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[Justin Israel]

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 6:03 AM Rudi Hammad  wrote:

> Hi Cedric, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
>
> Before writing a plugin, I try to produce the same result using maya's
> nodes. So I could distribute the rig without any plugins if I wanted, but
> usually a c++ node, if done right, performs faster than 20 maya nodes
> network.
> Since I want to offer the best to the client, I think rigs with plugins
> are not a bad idea. Also I find it more interesting from a learning point
> of view, and you can't do everything with maya nodes.
>
> Now let me ask you something. Imagine that you spent a year developing a
> muscle plugin system. So you spend a year studying math, anatomy and any
> other useful resources to finally write your plugin from scratch. Would you
> not consider that intellectual property? After all,muscles are not
> original, we have maya cMuscles, Ziva muscles now etc...Also math is not
> original. But any way, original or not, how would you approach that
> situation? Would you simply distribute it without any kind of protection?
> what if the client ask you to do one rig, and then he rips off the plugin
> and do 20 rigs using it. or worst, what if the client and resell it?
>

Don't use that client again. Or sue the client for breaking your contract
and reselling your technology?

Consider other commercial applications that use a license key. What if the
agreement is that a license is for one seat, but the company just installs
it on 10 machines with that one key? It can happen. And a company probably
worked very hard on that software. You are hoping to deal with reputable
clients that want to pay you to support your products and not act like
criminals. It's the same reason you don't put a snack into your pocket and
walk out of the convenience store without paying, because it's easy.

If everything you deliver is in C++ then you can at least make it harder to
reuse unless some common hashes match between the plugin and the other
custom nodes you write.


> (Besides, I think protection methods is a very interesting subject on its
> own.)
>
> Cheers,
> R
>
> El sábado, 4 de agosto de 2018, 17:02:53 (UTC+2), Cedric Bazillou escribió:
>
>> Im not even sure if its worth the effort:
>>
>> lets be honest, rigging tool box or plugins are for the most part
>> extremely elementary ( im not even sure how one can talk about intellectual
>> property on something less than original, and for the most part inspired by
>> community effort).
>> Personally i think the rig is the result produced from some tool, so its
>> not that important: its the way you get to the result which is valuable.
>>
>> Otherwise you can convert the rig to use factory nodes from maya:( much
>> more difficult to decipher 12000 node network)
>> if you dont want to distribute plugins you can unpack the code logic into
>> regular nodes (  python have some good abstract syntax tree / ast module
>> and the same concept exists for c++).
>>
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Re: [Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[Rudi Hammad]

Hi Cedric, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Before writing a plugin, I try to produce the same result using maya's 
nodes. So I could distribute the rig without any plugins if I wanted, but 
usually a c++ node, if done right, performs faster than 20 maya nodes 
network.
Since I want to offer the best to the client, I think rigs with plugins are 
not a bad idea. Also I find it more interesting from a learning point of 
view, and you can't do everything with maya nodes.

Now let me ask you something. Imagine that you spent a year developing a 
muscle plugin system. So you spend a year studying math, anatomy and any 
other useful resources to finally write your plugin from scratch. Would you 
not consider that intellectual property? After all,muscles are not 
original, we have maya cMuscles, Ziva muscles now etc...Also math is not 
original. But any way, original or not, how would you approach that 
situation? Would you simply distribute it without any kind of protection?  
what if the client ask you to do one rig, and then he rips off the plugin 
and do 20 rigs using it. or worst, what if the client and resell it?

(Besides, I think protection methods is a very interesting subject on its 
own.)

Cheers,
R

El sábado, 4 de agosto de 2018, 17:02:53 (UTC+2), Cedric Bazillou escribió:

> Im not even sure if its worth the effort:
>
> lets be honest, rigging tool box or plugins are for the most part 
> extremely elementary ( im not even sure how one can talk about intellectual 
> property on something less than original, and for the most part inspired by 
> community effort).
> Personally i think the rig is the result produced from some tool, so its 
> not that important: its the way you get to the result which is valuable.
>
> Otherwise you can convert the rig to use factory nodes from maya:( much 
> more difficult to decipher 12000 node network)
> if you dont want to distribute plugins you can unpack the code logic into 
> regular nodes (  python have some good abstract syntax tree / ast module 
> and the same concept exists for c++).
>

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Re: [Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[Cedric Bazillou]

Im not even sure if its worth the effort:

lets be honest, rigging tool box or plugins are for the most part extremely 
elementary ( im not even sure how one can talk about intellectual property 
on something less than original, and for the most part inspired by 
community effort).
Personally i think the rig is the result produced from some tool, so its 
not that important: its the way you get to the result which is valuable.

Otherwise you can convert the rig to use factory nodes from maya:( much 
more difficult to decipher 12000 node network)
if you dont want to distribute plugins you can unpack the code logic into 
regular nodes (  python have some good abstract syntax tree / ast module 
and the same concept exists for c++).

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Re: [Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[Rudi Hammad]

Sure that would work fine.Maybe it is a good solution.I guess I would lose 
clients if rigs expire, but I can have it all.


El viernes, 3 de agosto de 2018, 22:00:28 (UTC+2), Justin Israel escribió:
>
> You wouldn't need that information to check a time. You would compile a 
> specific plugin for that client with a licensed time range. That particular 
> build of the plugin would expire and you could ship them another one if 
> they paid you to extend it. 
>
> On Sat, Aug 4, 2018, 5:30 AM Rudi Hammad > 
> wrote:
>
>> Cool, thanks for the advice.
>> Sorry, but outside maya I am a bit lost .So doesn't that mean that the 
>> client should provide me his IP range. Probably a client would not  be very 
>> happy having to deal with technical stuff. 
>>  I guess in the end it is a balance between security & client headache  
>> or risking to "lose" your property in the benefit of the client happiness.
>> It is good to know thought what you suggest. I'll keep digging.
>> Cheers,
>> R
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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Re: [Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[Rudi Hammad]

Cool, thanks for the advice.
Sorry, but outside maya I am a bit lost .So doesn't that mean that the 
client should provide me his IP range. Probably a client would not  be very 
happy having to deal with technical stuff. 
 I guess in the end it is a balance between security & client headache  or 
risking to "lose" your property in the benefit of the client happiness.
It is good to know thought what you suggest. I'll keep digging.
Cheers,
R

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Re: [Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[Todd Widup]

a previous company also would ping the world atomic clock website to
timebomb the plugin.  if it was past a hard coded date, it would stop
working.
so a combination of that and the IP range would be a great start.  the
atomic clock would lock it into a time frame limited run so if the project
was to go for 8 months, then it would only run till then.  if they need an
extention cause of overrun, then simply charge them for the update

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 4:03 AM  wrote:

> What about a network mask detection?
>
> Most companies have an intranet, so let's say everything in ip range
> 192.168.9.* is valid all other ip's are invalid. Of course this is not
> rocksolid, but it it easy to implement and give you good start.
>
> Am 2018-08-03 12:38, schrieb Rudi Hammad:
>
> hey,
> I said "delete everything" in the scene has an example. Of course I would
> try to do something that won't damage anything, but just make the plugin
> stop working.
> The reason why I am so concerned is that I had a very a bad experience a
> year and a half ago. I trusted the client with my personal work that took
> me a year of hard work, and he ended up lying to me and giving anyone that
> he wanted all of it.
> That hurt me a lot, and I lost more than 3000 pounds. So I learned from
> that experience. I think it is important to protect your work.
> Thanks for your advice. I 'll try to figure out a clean and none
> destructive way to do it. If I don't, I`'ll consider a license key solution.
>
>
>
>
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-- 
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Creature TD / Technical Artist
todd.wi...@gmail.com

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Re: [Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[haggi]

 

What about a network mask detection? 

Most companies have an intranet, so let's say everything in ip range
192.168.9.* is valid all other ip's are invalid. Of course this is not
rocksolid, but it it easy to implement and give you good start. 

Am 2018-08-03 12:38, schrieb Rudi Hammad: 

> hey, 
> I said "delete everything" in the scene has an example. Of course I would try 
> to do something that won't damage anything, but just make the plugin stop 
> working. 
> The reason why I am so concerned is that I had a very a bad experience a year 
> and a half ago. I trusted the client with my personal work that took me a 
> year of hard work, and he ended up lying to me and giving anyone that he 
> wanted all of it. 
> That hurt me a lot, and I lost more than 3000 pounds. So I learned from that 
> experience. I think it is important to protect your work. 
> Thanks for your advice. I 'll try to figure out a clean and none destructive 
> way to do it. If I don't, I`'ll consider a license key solution.

 

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Re: [Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[Rudi Hammad]

hey,
I said "delete everything" in the scene has an example. Of course I would 
try to do something that won't damage anything, but just make the plugin 
stop working.
The reason why I am so concerned is that I had a very a bad experience a 
year and a half ago. I trusted the client with my personal work that took 
me a year of hard work, and he ended up lying to me and giving anyone that 
he wanted all of it.
That hurt me a lot, and I lost more than 3000 pounds. So I learned from 
that experience. I think it is important to protect your work.
Thanks for your advice. I 'll try to figure out a clean and none 
destructive way to do it. If I don't, I`'ll consider a license key solution.

R

El viernes, 3 de agosto de 2018, 11:29:10 (UTC+2), Justin Israel escribió:
>
> That sounds really devious to instrument your plugin to destroy the state 
> of someone's work if it thinks certain conditions aren't met. It is 
> borderline virus-like and I think you should avoid that route. What if some 
> connection were deleted by accident? 
>
> I realise you put alot of time into your intellectual property and want to 
> protect it. But this situation is pretty common with commercial products. 
> Safe guards can be hacked and worked around, so it usually comes down to a 
> company wanting to play ball the legit way. That means wanting to ensure 
> the products they are using are licensed, supported, and work reliably for 
> them in production. 
>
> If you don't want to come up with a proper license key solution, maybe 
> there are other ways to deter clients from misusing your technology. I 
> don't have any concrete solutions since I don't write much Maya code these 
> days, but maybe you could think of some way to validate the objects on the 
> other side of the connection to your node? Maybe some type of activation 
> criteria has to be met or else a created plugin node simply won't function. 
> So you could focus less on trying to prevent the creation from happening, 
> and just make it not do anything useful unless it's activated correctly. 
> Maybe that means considering a hash on stuff like the type of the node 
> connecting to your plugins plus some other criteria. Maybe you compile your 
> plugins specifically for each client, with some keys that have to match the 
> rig (c++?) you have given them. 
>
> Im sure others in this forum that write Maya plugins on a regular basis 
> could offer some more concrete criteria to base it on. But overall I just 
> recommend accepting that people can choose to circumvent things but 
> hopefully your clients won't work to circumvent some basic measures that 
> you implement thus making it harder. Just don't delete their stuff :) 
>
> Justin 
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018, 6:00 PM Rudi Hammad > 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello, 
>> although this a C++ question, I think it is okey to post it here since it 
>> is Maya's API related.
>> So, I recently started writing plug-ins in C++ and I am planning on 
>> freelancing rigs that use those plugins. Simply put: I want the clients to 
>> use the rigs with the C++ plugins nodes, but I don't want them to be able 
>> to create the node.
>> The reason why I want this is because if I spend months or a year of hard 
>> work developing a muscle plugin, the client can ask me for 1 rig, and then 
>> rip off the plugin and keep it to him self. So without going into license 
>> stuff I thought that
>> maybe in C++ we have more protection measures?
>>
>> This is what I have done so far to protect the plugin:
>>
>> 1-Build the plug-in in release mode (apparently in debug mode you can 
>> hack it somehow, at least that's what a college told me when I was working 
>> at MPC)
>>
>> 2-Delete everything in the scene if a disconnection is detected in the 
>> node with: 
>> connectionBroken(const MPlug& plug, const MPlug& otherPlug, bool asSrc)
>>
>> 3-Delete everything  in the scene if the node is duplicated with:
>> ::copyInternalData(MPxNode* node)
>>
>> But the main problem is that you still can simple write 
>> *cmds.createNode("theNode")* to create a new node. So the previous 
>> measures are useless.
>>
>>
>> Any ideas?Maybe doing something after the maya scene was opened and 
>> loaded the plugins?
>> Thanks,
>>
>> R
>>
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Re: [Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[Justin Israel]

That sounds really devious to instrument your plugin to destroy the state
of someone's work if it thinks certain conditions aren't met. It is
borderline virus-like and I think you should avoid that route. What if some
connection were deleted by accident?

I realise you put alot of time into your intellectual property and want to
protect it. But this situation is pretty common with commercial products.
Safe guards can be hacked and worked around, so it usually comes down to a
company wanting to play ball the legit way. That means wanting to ensure
the products they are using are licensed, supported, and work reliably for
them in production.

If you don't want to come up with a proper license key solution, maybe
there are other ways to deter clients from misusing your technology. I
don't have any concrete solutions since I don't write much Maya code these
days, but maybe you could think of some way to validate the objects on the
other side of the connection to your node? Maybe some type of activation
criteria has to be met or else a created plugin node simply won't function.
So you could focus less on trying to prevent the creation from happening,
and just make it not do anything useful unless it's activated correctly.
Maybe that means considering a hash on stuff like the type of the node
connecting to your plugins plus some other criteria. Maybe you compile your
plugins specifically for each client, with some keys that have to match the
rig (c++?) you have given them.

Im sure others in this forum that write Maya plugins on a regular basis
could offer some more concrete criteria to base it on. But overall I just
recommend accepting that people can choose to circumvent things but
hopefully your clients won't work to circumvent some basic measures that
you implement thus making it harder. Just don't delete their stuff :)

Justin


On Fri, Aug 3, 2018, 6:00 PM Rudi Hammad  wrote:

> Hello,
> although this a C++ question, I think it is okey to post it here since it
> is Maya's API related.
> So, I recently started writing plug-ins in C++ and I am planning on
> freelancing rigs that use those plugins. Simply put: I want the clients to
> use the rigs with the C++ plugins nodes, but I don't want them to be able
> to create the node.
> The reason why I want this is because if I spend months or a year of hard
> work developing a muscle plugin, the client can ask me for 1 rig, and then
> rip off the plugin and keep it to him self. So without going into license
> stuff I thought that
> maybe in C++ we have more protection measures?
>
> This is what I have done so far to protect the plugin:
>
> 1-Build the plug-in in release mode (apparently in debug mode you can hack
> it somehow, at least that's what a college told me when I was working at
> MPC)
>
> 2-Delete everything in the scene if a disconnection is detected in the
> node with:
> connectionBroken(const MPlug& plug, const MPlug& otherPlug, bool asSrc)
>
> 3-Delete everything  in the scene if the node is duplicated with:
> ::copyInternalData(MPxNode* node)
>
> But the main problem is that you still can simple write
> *cmds.createNode("theNode")* to create a new node. So the previous
> measures are useless.
>
>
> Any ideas?Maybe doing something after the maya scene was opened and loaded
> the plugins?
> Thanks,
>
> R
>
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[Maya-Python] plug-in "anti hacking" measures.

[Rudi Hammad]

Hello, 
although this a C++ question, I think it is okey to post it here since it 
is Maya's API related.
So, I recently started writing plug-ins in C++ and I am planning on 
freelancing rigs that use those plugins. Simply put: I want the clients to 
use the rigs with the C++ plugins nodes, but I don't want them to be able 
to create the node.
The reason why I want this is because if I spend months or a year of hard 
work developing a muscle plugin, the client can ask me for 1 rig, and then 
rip off the plugin and keep it to him self. So without going into license 
stuff I thought that
maybe in C++ we have more protection measures?

This is what I have done so far to protect the plugin:

1-Build the plug-in in release mode (apparently in debug mode you can hack 
it somehow, at least that's what a college told me when I was working at 
MPC)

2-Delete everything in the scene if a disconnection is detected in the node 
with: 
connectionBroken(const MPlug& plug, const MPlug& otherPlug, bool asSrc)

3-Delete everything  in the scene if the node is duplicated with:
::copyInternalData(MPxNode* node)

But the main problem is that you still can simple write 
*cmds.createNode("theNode")* to create a new node. So the previous measures 
are useless.


Any ideas?Maybe doing something after the maya scene was opened and loaded 
the plugins?
Thanks,

R

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