Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[Vincent Picavet]

Hello,

Le dimanche 16 décembre 2012 02:36:31, pcr...@pcreso.com a écrit :
> I'm interested in at least discussing this thread going a step further,
> with respect to a SpatialLite based file transfer tool for geodata.
> 
> The OGC has mandated many open standards, including SFS, which most spatial
> databases are predicated on.
> 
> It is not that clear to me whether a spec for an Open File Geodatabase
> would be a fit within the OGC, but I suggest it is a possibility worth
> considering.
> 

These links can be of interest : OGC geopackage 

http://www.opengeospatial.org/pressroom/pressreleases/1699
http://foss4g-na.org/schedule/army-geospatial-center-geopackage-gpkg/
https://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/50347


Vincent

> The OGC has standards for spatial data management, delivery, etc, so one
> for spatial data file sharing seems well within the mandate.
> 
> This would perhaps be a slower & more involved process than simply building
> one for QGIS, but such a QGIS capability could be built as the reference
> application.
> 
> 
> Such a process would perhaps be OSGEO driven rather than QGIS specific, but
> obviously could include appropriate QGIS team members.
> 
> Any support (or dissent) from those in the QGIS developer/user communities?
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[Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[pcreso]

I'm interested in at least discussing this thread going a step further, with 
respect to a SpatialLite based file transfer tool for geodata. 

The OGC has mandated many open standards, including SFS, which most spatial 
databases are predicated on.

It is not that clear to me whether a spec for an Open File Geodatabase would be 
a fit within the OGC, but I suggest it is a possibility worth considering. 

The OGC has standards for spatial data management, delivery, etc, so one for 
spatial data file sharing seems well within the mandate.

This would perhaps be a slower & more involved process than simply building one 
for QGIS, but such a QGIS capability could be built as the reference 
application.


Such a process would perhaps be OSGEO driven rather than QGIS specific, but 
obviously could include appropriate QGIS team members.

Any support (or dissent) from those in the QGIS developer/user communities?


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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[Noli Sicad]

Hi Stefan,

> Your point is very common and I understand this situation.
> But the ArcGIS SW suite doesn't really make interoperability easy and tends
> to maintain a vendor lock-in.
> My proposal is to break this deadlock by programming an free ArcGIS desktop
> extension which reads/writes Spatialite.
> Any volunteers?

It's almost done (i.e. just read, not write Spatialtie).

AmigoCloud's GDAL/OGR Plugin for ArcGIS.

It reads from Spatialtie and other formats at the moment.

https://github.com/RBURHUM/arcgis-ogr

Noli
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[kimaidou]

Hi agin

Surely I did not mean to drop Shapefile support ! We must let the user
choose. But now, as ESRI Shapefile is the simplest/default way (yet
limited) to create/edit layers, we "force" the users to use it, which I
dislike for reasons written previously.
I think sqlite could be a great alternative. It has some limitations, but
improves as time passes. We "just" need to modify QGIS tools to deal with
sqlite file more smoothly as discussed before.

Regards
Michael

2012/11/27 Andrea Peri 

> >Hi Stefan,
> >I think QGIS users are more likely to seek interoperability with other
> systems than ESRI users. So making ESRI work with QGIS via SpatialLite is
> probably not something that offers ESRI >users much benefit, they'll
> probably be using ESRI file geodatabases instead.
> >I believe QGIS will achieve more traction by working well with Arc,and
> seamlessly within an Arc environment, than the other way around. So while I
> have no problem with enhanced support for >SpatiaLite for QGIS (& Arc),
> this should not be at the expense of shapefile support.
>
> Hi,
> Try-ing to supporto esri arcgis will introduce other and bigger problems.
>
> We have many trouble due to the convention of esri for the hole that
> are touching the boundary of a polygon.
>
> The esri product will trasform this in a not OGC compatibile structure.
> That on a OGC system is defined Invalid.
> So when a dataset with hole is touched from a esri arcgis it could
> became invalid for OGC.
>
> This is so a problem for us that we fund a change to postgis to have a
> ST_IsValid with a flag for compatibily with esri gemetries.
>
> QGIS is absolutely unuseful try to follow Arcgis if QGIS himself also
> don't support this different structure of polygons with hole on
> boundaries.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> --
> -
> Andrea Peri
> . . . . . . . . .
> qwerty àèìòù
> -
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[dncarreira]

For what it's worth... I'm in a ESRI+QGIS environment. I feel QGIS should
obvioulsy improve spatialite usage. It should be intuitive and easy to
create, save, export spatialite layers.

For ESRI I can always convert to shapefile, like I have to do when going
from ESRI to QGIS. Hopefully as SL's adoption grows ESRI will pick it up. We
can't wait for them though...

Best,
Duarte



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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[pcreso]

Hi Stefan,
I think QGIS users are more likely to seek interoperability with other systems 
than ESRI users. So making ESRI work with QGIS via SpatialLite is probably not 
something that offers ESRI users much benefit, they'll probably be using ESRI 
file geodatabases instead.
I believe QGIS will achieve more traction by working well with Arc,and 
seamlessly within an Arc environment, than the other way around. So while I 
have no problem with enhanced support for SpatiaLite for QGIS (& Arc), this 
should not be at the expense of shapefile support.
And for improved ESRI interoperability. given how ESRI provides (deliberately?) 
such poorly performing OGC web service support that ESRI users tend to use the 
ESRI restful services instead, is QGIS/GDAL support for ESRI's native web 
services at all likely?
Brent
--- On Wed, 11/28/12, Stefan Keller  wrote:

From: Stefan Keller 
Subject: Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !
To: pcr...@pcreso.com
Cc: qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org
Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2012, 3:28 AM

Hi Brent
Your point is very common and I understand this situation.But the ArcGIS SW 
suite doesn't really make interoperability easy and tends to maintain a vendor 
lock-in.My proposal is to break this deadlock by programming an free ArcGIS 
desktop extension which reads/writes Spatialite.
Any volunteers?
S.
2012/11/27  

As long as users have the choice, that's fine.
I'm working with organisations with a very significant Arc server based GIS 
infrastructure, & am encouraging QGIS as a client for staff desktop use. This 
is not an uncommon situation, & QGIS needs to be viable for such use, & at 
least Arc compatible, if not Arc friendly. SpatiaLite, despite all it's 
advantages, is inappropriate here.


Brent Wood

--- On Tue, 11/27/12, Noli Sicad  wrote:


From: Noli Sicad 
Subject: Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !
To: "haubourg" 

Cc:
 qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org
Date: Tuesday, November 27, 2012, 11:10 AM

Spatialite 4.0.0 was released yesterday. Sandro will update the

Spatialite QGIS data provider in the next few days to support
Spatialite 4.0.x.

Noli







On 11/27/12, haubourg  wrote:

> Hey +1 for me! I answered in the old post on GeoJSON.
> You pointed exactly what's missing now !
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://osgeo-org.1560.n6.nabble.com/Re-Get-rid-of-Shapefiles-Go-SpatiaLite-tp5018830p5018893.html

> Sent from the Quantum GIS - Developer
 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[Stefan Keller]

Hi Brent

Your point is very common and I understand this situation.
But the ArcGIS SW suite doesn't really make interoperability easy and tends
to maintain a vendor lock-in.
My proposal is to break this deadlock by programming an free ArcGIS desktop
extension which reads/writes Spatialite.
Any volunteers?

S.

2012/11/27 

> As long as users have the choice, that's fine.
>
> I'm working with organisations with a very significant Arc server based
> GIS infrastructure, & am encouraging QGIS as a client for staff desktop
> use. This is not an uncommon situation, & QGIS needs to be viable for such
> use, & at least Arc compatible, if not Arc friendly. SpatiaLite, despite
> all it's advantages, is inappropriate here.
>
>
> Brent Wood
>
> --- On *Tue, 11/27/12, Noli Sicad * wrote:
>
>
> From: Noli Sicad 
> Subject: Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !
> To: "haubourg" 
> Cc: qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org
> Date: Tuesday, November 27, 2012, 11:10 AM
>
>
> Spatialite 4.0.0 was released yesterday. Sandro will update the
> Spatialite QGIS data provider in the next few days to support
> Spatialite 4.0.x.
>
> Noli
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/27/12, haubourg 
> http://mc/compose?to=regis.haubo...@eau-adour-garonne.fr>>
> wrote:
> > Hey +1 for me! I answered in the old post on GeoJSON.
> > You pointed exactly what's missing now !
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://osgeo-org.1560.n6.nabble.com/Re-Get-rid-of-Shapefiles-Go-SpatiaLite-tp5018830p5018893.html
> > Sent from the Quantum GIS - Developer mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > ___
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> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
> >
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[pcreso]

As long as users have the choice, that's fine.
I'm working with organisations with a very significant Arc server based GIS 
infrastructure, & am encouraging QGIS as a client for staff desktop use. This 
is not an uncommon situation, & QGIS needs to be viable for such use, & at 
least Arc compatible, if not Arc friendly. SpatiaLite, despite all it's 
advantages, is inappropriate here.

Brent Wood

--- On Tue, 11/27/12, Noli Sicad  wrote:

From: Noli Sicad 
Subject: Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !
To: "haubourg" 
Cc: qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org
Date: Tuesday, November 27, 2012, 11:10 AM

Spatialite 4.0.0 was released yesterday. Sandro will update the
Spatialite QGIS data provider in the next few days to support
Spatialite 4.0.x.

Noli







On 11/27/12, haubourg  wrote:
> Hey +1 for me! I answered in the old post on GeoJSON.
> You pointed exactly what's missing now !
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://osgeo-org.1560.n6.nabble.com/Re-Get-rid-of-Shapefiles-Go-SpatiaLite-tp5018830p5018893.html
> Sent from the Quantum GIS - Developer mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[kimaidou]

Hi all,

One thing to add to our feature list is the ability to do the following :
* use the menu "Add a vector layer"
* choose a sqlite file
* a dialog with all tables contained in this file pops up and let the user
choose one
* load the layer (spatial or not) in QGIS


By the way, we in 3liz would love to spend some time implementing some of
these ideas to ease the use of Spatialite in QGIS. The main goal is the
ability to avoid the opening of the sqlite connection manager to do the
basics : open a layer, create a layer in a file (existing or not), saving a
layer, etc.
If someone can fund this work, I can write down a wiki page with some ideas
so that people can read/modify it.

Cheers,

Michael

2012/11/27 Bernd Vogelgesang 

> Am 27.11.2012, 08:20 Uhr, schrieb Paolo Cavallini :
>
>
>  On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 23:56:30 +0100, "Bernd Vogelgesang"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  You just should not use Qspatialite to import shapes. I nearly gave up
>>> upon spatialite, when i figured out that i had to use the Spatialite GUI
>>>
>>
>>  instead and this was fast as hell.
>>>
>>
>> Why not using DB Manager?
>>
>
> Well, i can't figure out for what i can use it in my workflow other than
> loading a layer into Qgis.
>
>
>
>>  So at the moment, you have to work with Spatialite GUI to import shapes,
>>>
>>
>>
>> I do not think users like to switch between different programs.
>>
>
> Indeed! I do not like it either, but this gives the best results so far
> (and the only results when i work with bigger datasets). Thats why improved
> spatialite support (in whatever way) would be really much appreciated.
>
> greetz
> Bernd
>
>
>> All the best.
>>
>
>
> --
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[Bernd Vogelgesang]

Am 27.11.2012, 08:20 Uhr, schrieb Paolo Cavallini :


On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 23:56:30 +0100, "Bernd Vogelgesang"
 wrote:


You just should not use Qspatialite to import shapes. I nearly gave up
upon spatialite, when i figured out that i had to use the Spatialite GUI



instead and this was fast as hell.


Why not using DB Manager?


Well, i can't figure out for what i can use it in my workflow other than  
loading a layer into Qgis.





So at the moment, you have to work with Spatialite GUI to import shapes,



I do not think users like to switch between different programs.


Indeed! I do not like it either, but this gives the best results so far  
(and the only results when i work with bigger datasets). Thats why  
improved spatialite support (in whatever way) would be really much  
appreciated.


greetz
Bernd



All the best.



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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[G. Allegri]

Just a note on the difficulty of Spatialite rather then shapefiles.
I often work with commercial softwares, and most of thems let the user work
seamlessly with local geodatabases (many of them use the MDB format), and I
see it's not so strange for GIS users to use them rather then shapefiles to
organize and share their data.
The OS version of this kind of data management would naturally be
Spatialite.

giovanni

2012/11/27 Paolo Cavallini 

> On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 23:56:30 +0100, "Bernd Vogelgesang"
>  wrote:
>
> > You just should not use Qspatialite to import shapes. I nearly gave up
> > upon spatialite, when i figured out that i had to use the Spatialite GUI
>
> > instead and this was fast as hell.
>
> Why not using DB Manager?
>
> > So at the moment, you have to work with Spatialite GUI to import shapes,
>
>
> I do not think users like to switch between different programs.
>
> All the best.
> --
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> www.faunalia.eu
> Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[Paolo Cavallini]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 23:56:30 +0100, "Bernd Vogelgesang"
 wrote:

> You just should not use Qspatialite to import shapes. I nearly gave up  
> upon spatialite, when i figured out that i had to use the Spatialite GUI

> instead and this was fast as hell.

Why not using DB Manager?

> So at the moment, you have to work with Spatialite GUI to import shapes,


I do not think users like to switch between different programs.

All the best.
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www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[Bernd Vogelgesang]

Am 26.11.2012, 23:13 Uhr, schrieb Alister Hood  
:



Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:35:24 +
From: Barry Rowlingson 
...
>
> I am very frustrated by the limitations of the Shapefile format, and  
much
> more by the quasi obligation to use it as the default vector format  
in QGIS.

> I mean for non power users who do not use PostGIS or spatialite.
  Why is spatialite seen as a "power user" option when ESRI users have
been using something similar for years? Its just a file, you connect
to it, you add spatial data to it.


Well, I think it IS a "power user" option as long as things output only  
to shapefile, after which the user needs to perform an extra step to  
import to spatialite.  This discussion on abstraction is good to see.


Users won't perform the extra step unless they have a motivation to do  
so.  Personally I have only used spatialite a couple of times, when I  
needed to perform special queries.  And these queries are also very much  
for "power users" - the user isn't confronted by any documentation  
telling them about the cool stuff they can do (and how to do it), so  
people are most likely to do it only after googling to solve a  
particular problem.


If you don't need to run a special query or something, does spatialite  
have major benefits?  Do these need some publicity?

Things like the length of field names seem pretty minor to me...


And maybe this is a little off topic, but does anyone else have trouble  
with the implementation of spatialite in qgis?
In my experience it is very slow (takes 6 hours to save as or import a  
layer to spatialite, when ogr2ogr takes less than 5 minutes), and tends  
to be accompanied by a series of frightening error/warning messages.


Giving my 2 cents as "user": Postgis is too complex/abstract to set up and  
use for noobs, shape files suck, spatialite seems to be the perfect mix  
(portability)(if there only would be understandable documentations and at  
least SOME examples how to use it in a workflow).


In my experience, spatialite is much faster and more reliable with bigger  
datasets. Had to classify 30.000 polygons via field calculator and did  
this in multiple steps. As a shape file, qgis crashed, froze, took ages,  
while in spatialite it just worked smoothly.


You just should not use Qspatialite to import shapes. I nearly gave up  
upon spatialite, when i figured out that i had to use the Spatialite GUI  
instead and this was fast as hell.
So at the moment, you have to work with Spatialite GUI to import shapes,  
then use Qspaltialite to push them into QGIS and repeat that shit on every  
major action (ftools e.g.). Not really convenient, so its no wonder that  
not many people seem to use it so far.
Would really love to see much more spatialite support in QGIS. And when i  
grow up, i will learn this sql- stuff and everything will be fine ;)


greetz
bernd




Regards,
Alister
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[Alister Hood]

> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:35:24 +
> From: Barry Rowlingson 
> ...
> >
> > I am very frustrated by the limitations of the Shapefile format, and much
> > more by the quasi obligation to use it as the default vector format in QGIS.
> > I mean for non power users who do not use PostGIS or spatialite.
> 
>  Why is spatialite seen as a "power user" option when ESRI users have
> been using something similar for years? Its just a file, you connect
> to it, you add spatial data to it.

Well, I think it IS a "power user" option as long as things output only to 
shapefile, after which the user needs to perform an extra step to import to 
spatialite.  This discussion on abstraction is good to see.

Users won't perform the extra step unless they have a motivation to do so.  
Personally I have only used spatialite a couple of times, when I needed to 
perform special queries.  And these queries are also very much for "power 
users" - the user isn't confronted by any documentation telling them about the 
cool stuff they can do (and how to do it), so people are most likely to do it 
only after googling to solve a particular problem.

If you don't need to run a special query or something, does spatialite have 
major benefits?  Do these need some publicity?
Things like the length of field names seem pretty minor to me...

And maybe this is a little off topic, but does anyone else have trouble with 
the implementation of spatialite in qgis?
In my experience it is very slow (takes 6 hours to save as or import a layer to 
spatialite, when ogr2ogr takes less than 5 minutes), and tends to be 
accompanied by a series of frightening error/warning messages.

Regards,
Alister
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[G. Allegri]

I totally agree too.
Spatialite is growing rapidly. As you know it has also got the support for
Android right in these days.
I think a tighter integratio in QGis would easily find the financial
support for its development...

giovanni

2012/11/26 haubourg 

> Hey +1 for me! I answered in the old post on GeoJSON.
> You pointed exactly what's missing now !
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://osgeo-org.1560.n6.nabble.com/Re-Get-rid-of-Shapefiles-Go-SpatiaLite-tp5018830p5018893.html
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[Noli Sicad]

Spatialite 4.0.0 was released yesterday. Sandro will update the
Spatialite QGIS data provider in the next few days to support
Spatialite 4.0.x.

Noli







On 11/27/12, haubourg  wrote:
> Hey +1 for me! I answered in the old post on GeoJSON.
> You pointed exactly what's missing now !
>
>
>
>
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> View this message in context:
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> Sent from the Quantum GIS - Developer mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[haubourg]

Hey +1 for me! I answered in the old post on GeoJSON. 
You pointed exactly what's missing now ! 




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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[Thomas Gratier]

Hello all,

+1 for Spatialite

You can also have a look on Geopackages announcement at OGC e.g
http://www.opengeospatial.org/pressroom/pressreleases/1710
It seems to be a future standard for geospatial data

Regards

ThomasG
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[Stefan Keller]

Hi Michael

+1 from my part.

To me Spatialie is "the shapefile of the future" since 2010 (see e.g. FOSS4G)

Yours, Stefan


2012/11/26 Pēteris Brūns :
> Hi,
> +1
> This direction from my view is more correct course of action - make the use
> of spatialite more easy and ergonomic for users as it is now and in case of
> success it will be used more and more.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> On 2012.11.26. 18:35, kimaidou wrote:
>
> Hi again
>
> I am coming back after more thinking :). I changed the subject into Go
> Spatialite !
>
> List of modifications which would help to use spatialite instead of
> Shapefile as the default format :
>
> * Create a new vector layer : should allow to choose between shapefile and
> Spatialite. Let the use choose an existing spatialite connection or easily
> create a new spatialite file and connection, and create a new table there.
> * Tab fields, if the layer provider is spatialite :
>  - add the ability to delete columns : currently it is not possible
>  - add the ability to rename a column with the appropriate SQL command
> - add the ability to change the type of a column when it is possible
>
> * Tab General
>  - add the ability to create/remove a spatial index for spatialite tables,
> as QSpatialite does
>
> * FTools and another vector processing tools :
>  - add the ability to choose between shapefile and spatialite to create the
> processed layers.
>
> I think it would be a big break for QGIS if we facilitate more the use of
> spatialite. I know it is already possible to achieve many things with
> DBManager or QSpatialite, but we could help the users by letting them edit
> spatialite tables without a dedicated tool.
>
> Cheers
>
> Michael
>
>
> 2012/11/26 kimaidou 
>>
>> Hi Yves,
>>
>> I totally agree with you and Bary on the superiority of spatialite VS
>> GeoJson considering performance, geoprocessing methods, capabilities, etc.
>> But I am still not sure beginner would be comfortable enough using Sqlite
>> to replace Shapefiles. I think they will be more comfortable with the idea
>> to keep the one layer / one file architecture. They can off course use one
>> sqlite file containing only one layer, so this question could be answered.
>>
>> But still, I think users should be able to use the "Field" tab of the
>> layer properties dialog to easily edit the layer structure, not another
>> dedicated tool in another QGIS menu (or plugin)
>> We could probably find a way to use the tools of the Fields tab to modify
>> the structure of the related sqlite table. This would help a lot people to
>> use more the spatialite format, no ?
>>
>> I need more thinking :)
>>
>> Thanks all for your comments
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/26 Yves Jacolin (Free) 
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I agreed with all you said, I am sure Spatialite format is the future of
>>> Geo"file" format:
>>> * easy to share (one file)
>>> * easy to use, edit
>>> * a lot of better capabities than Shapefile
>>> * use same OGC Standard as PostGIS does
>>>
>>> Y.
>>> Le lundi 26 novembre 2012 15:35:24 Barry Rowlingson a écrit :
>>> > [apologies for empty previous message, I blame google for putting
>>> > [...] next to 'Send'. This message has real content:
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 3:12 PM, kimaidou  wrote:
>>> > > Hi list,
>>> > >
>>> > > The subject is a bit polemical, on purpose. I am used to playing with
>>> > > Postgis, spatialite and GeoJson, which are all open-source ways to
>>> > > store
>>> > > spatial data.
>>> > >
>>> > > I am very frustrated by the limitations of the Shapefile format, and
>>> > > much
>>> > > more by the quasi obligation to use it as the default vector format
>>> > > in
>>> > > QGIS. I mean for non power users who do not use PostGIS or
>>> > > spatialite.
>>> >
>>> >  Why is spatialite seen as a "power user" option when ESRI users have
>>> > been using something similar for years? Its just a file, you connect
>>> > to it, you add spatial data to it.
>>> >
>>> >  GeoJSON is always going to be pretty verbose unless you gzip it - I
>>> > wouldn't want to use it for anything too big.
>>> >
>>> > Barry
>>> > ___
>>> > Qgis-developer mailing list
>>> > Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org
>>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>
>>
>
>
>
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>
>
> --
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> SunGIS
> +371 26336691
> p...@sungis.lv
>
>
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[Pēteris Brūns]

Hi,
+1
This direction from my view is more correct course of action - make the 
use of spatialite more easy and ergonomic for users as it is now and in 
case of success it will be used more and more.


Regards,

On 2012.11.26. 18:35, kimaidou wrote:

Hi again

I am coming back after more thinking :). I changed the subject into Go 
Spatialite !


List of modifications which would help to use spatialite instead of 
Shapefile as the default format :


* Create a new vector layer : should allow to choose between shapefile 
and Spatialite. Let the use choose an existing spatialite connection 
or easily create a new spatialite file and connection, and create a 
new table there.

* Tab fields, if the layer provider is spatialite :
 - add the ability to delete columns : currently it is not possible
 - add the ability to rename a column with the appropriate SQL command
- add the ability to change the type of a column when it is possible

* Tab General
 - add the ability to create/remove a spatial index for spatialite 
tables, as QSpatialite does


* FTools and another vector processing tools :
 - add the ability to choose between shapefile and spatialite to 
create the processed layers.


I think it would be a big break for QGIS if we facilitate more the use 
of spatialite. I know it is already possible to achieve many things 
with DBManager or QSpatialite, but we could help the users by letting 
them edit spatialite tables without a dedicated tool.


Cheers

Michael


2012/11/26 kimaidou mailto:kimai...@gmail.com>>

Hi Yves,

I totally agree with you and Bary on the superiority of spatialite
VS GeoJson considering performance, geoprocessing methods,
capabilities, etc.
But I am still not sure beginner would be comfortable enough using
Sqlite to replace Shapefiles. I think they will be more
comfortable with the idea to keep the one layer / one file
architecture. They can off course use one sqlite file containing
only one layer, so this question could be answered.

But still, I think users should be able to use the "Field" tab of
the layer properties dialog to easily edit the layer structure,
not another dedicated tool in another QGIS menu (or plugin)
We could probably find a way to use the tools of the Fields tab to
modify the structure of the related sqlite table. This would help
a lot people to use more the spatialite format, no ?

I need more thinking :)

Thanks all for your comments


2012/11/26 Yves Jacolin (Free) mailto:yjaco...@free.fr>>

Hello,

I agreed with all you said, I am sure Spatialite format is the
future of
Geo"file" format:
* easy to share (one file)
* easy to use, edit
* a lot of better capabities than Shapefile
* use same OGC Standard as PostGIS does

Y.
Le lundi 26 novembre 2012 15:35:24 Barry Rowlingson a écrit :
> [apologies for empty previous message, I blame google for
putting
> [...] next to 'Send'. This message has real content:
>
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 3:12 PM, kimaidou
mailto:kimai...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Hi list,
> >
> > The subject is a bit polemical, on purpose. I am used to
playing with
> > Postgis, spatialite and GeoJson, which are all open-source
ways to store
> > spatial data.
> >
> > I am very frustrated by the limitations of the Shapefile
format, and much
> > more by the quasi obligation to use it as the default
vector format in
> > QGIS. I mean for non power users who do not use PostGIS or
spatialite.
>
>  Why is spatialite seen as a "power user" option when ESRI
users have
> been using something similar for years? Its just a file, you
connect
> to it, you add spatial data to it.
>
>  GeoJSON is always going to be pretty verbose unless you
gzip it - I
> wouldn't want to use it for anything too big.
>
> Barry
> ___
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org

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SunGIS
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p...@sungis.lv

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Get rid of Shapefiles ! Go SpatiaLite !

[kimaidou]

Hi again

I am coming back after more thinking :). I changed the subject into Go
Spatialite !

List of modifications which would help to use spatialite instead of
Shapefile as the default format :

* Create a new vector layer : should allow to choose between shapefile and
Spatialite. Let the use choose an existing spatialite connection or easily
create a new spatialite file and connection, and create a new table there.
* Tab fields, if the layer provider is spatialite :
 - add the ability to delete columns : currently it is not possible
 - add the ability to rename a column with the appropriate SQL command
- add the ability to change the type of a column when it is possible

* Tab General
 - add the ability to create/remove a spatial index for spatialite tables,
as QSpatialite does

* FTools and another vector processing tools :
 - add the ability to choose between shapefile and spatialite to create the
processed layers.

I think it would be a big break for QGIS if we facilitate more the use of
spatialite. I know it is already possible to achieve many things with
DBManager or QSpatialite, but we could help the users by letting them edit
spatialite tables without a dedicated tool.

Cheers

Michael


2012/11/26 kimaidou 

> Hi Yves,
>
> I totally agree with you and Bary on the superiority of spatialite VS
> GeoJson considering performance, geoprocessing methods, capabilities, etc.
> But I am still not sure beginner would be comfortable enough using Sqlite
> to replace Shapefiles. I think they will be more comfortable with the idea
> to keep the one layer / one file architecture. They can off course use one
> sqlite file containing only one layer, so this question could be answered.
>
> But still, I think users should be able to use the "Field" tab of the
> layer properties dialog to easily edit the layer structure, not another
> dedicated tool in another QGIS menu (or plugin)
> We could probably find a way to use the tools of the Fields tab to modify
> the structure of the related sqlite table. This would help a lot people to
> use more the spatialite format, no ?
>
> I need more thinking :)
>
> Thanks all for your comments
>
>
> 2012/11/26 Yves Jacolin (Free) 
>
> Hello,
>>
>> I agreed with all you said, I am sure Spatialite format is the future of
>> Geo"file" format:
>> * easy to share (one file)
>> * easy to use, edit
>> * a lot of better capabities than Shapefile
>> * use same OGC Standard as PostGIS does
>>
>> Y.
>> Le lundi 26 novembre 2012 15:35:24 Barry Rowlingson a écrit :
>> > [apologies for empty previous message, I blame google for putting
>> > [...] next to 'Send'. This message has real content:
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 3:12 PM, kimaidou  wrote:
>> > > Hi list,
>> > >
>> > > The subject is a bit polemical, on purpose. I am used to playing with
>> > > Postgis, spatialite and GeoJson, which are all open-source ways to
>> store
>> > > spatial data.
>> > >
>> > > I am very frustrated by the limitations of the Shapefile format, and
>> much
>> > > more by the quasi obligation to use it as the default vector format in
>> > > QGIS. I mean for non power users who do not use PostGIS or spatialite.
>> >
>> >  Why is spatialite seen as a "power user" option when ESRI users have
>> > been using something similar for years? Its just a file, you connect
>> > to it, you add spatial data to it.
>> >
>> >  GeoJSON is always going to be pretty verbose unless you gzip it - I
>> > wouldn't want to use it for anything too big.
>> >
>> > Barry
>> > ___
>> > Qgis-developer mailing list
>> > Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org
>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>
>
>
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