Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
Selon Vincent Picavet : > Hi, > > > > The gdal/ecw case is particularly complex, as the ECW licence changes > > > regularly and is some kind of opensource but not really. > > > > The "new" read-only ECW dlls that are distributed in the QGIS Windows > > installer are not at all open source. Paolo said something not long ago > > about needing to talk to Erdas to clarify the situation, as apparently at > > one stage they granted special permission to redistribute them with QGIS. > > But I'm pretty sure after this conversation that they are *not* > > redistributable with QGIS. The license on the "new" dlls has changed at > > least once, but I don't see how it could affect this conversation, as it > > has never been GPL compatible. > > I am pretty confident as well that at least distribution of the ECW dll is > not > permitted. It's probably even worst than that, as I am not sure that even > linking QGIS-GDAL-ECW is legally doable. A clear statement would need some > thorough investigation though. > Frank probably has some further thought on this point. Actually, Frank tried to address this in the following RFC : http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/rfc34_license_policy . It went to the discussion stage (there is a thread somewhere on gdal-dev) but not further. It is not clear where the responsibility belongs to. Likely not at the level of each individual project, but more at the level of the packaging system (OSGeo4W for example). In practice, the problem can come only if one of the copyright holders of QGIS wants to exercice his rights given by the GPL. > > > The "old" read-write ECW libs that are typically used on linux can > > supposedly be distributed with GPL software, so I think it would make > > sense to use them also on Windows (especially since they are read-write). > > Right, but no idea of the technical difficulty there. I believe that Tamas Szekeres in his daily builds at http://www.gisinternals.com/sdk/ uses the 3.3 SDK under Windows. > > Vincent > > > ___ > Qgis-developer mailing list > Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
Hi, > > The gdal/ecw case is particularly complex, as the ECW licence changes > > regularly and is some kind of opensource but not really. > > The "new" read-only ECW dlls that are distributed in the QGIS Windows > installer are not at all open source. Paolo said something not long ago > about needing to talk to Erdas to clarify the situation, as apparently at > one stage they granted special permission to redistribute them with QGIS. > But I'm pretty sure after this conversation that they are *not* > redistributable with QGIS. The license on the "new" dlls has changed at > least once, but I don't see how it could affect this conversation, as it > has never been GPL compatible. I am pretty confident as well that at least distribution of the ECW dll is not permitted. It's probably even worst than that, as I am not sure that even linking QGIS-GDAL-ECW is legally doable. A clear statement would need some thorough investigation though. Frank probably has some further thought on this point. > The "old" read-write ECW libs that are typically used on linux can > supposedly be distributed with GPL software, so I think it would make > sense to use them also on Windows (especially since they are read-write). Right, but no idea of the technical difficulty there. Vincent ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:06:19 +0200 > From: Vincent Picavet > Subject: Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python > plugin > > Hi, > > > In osgeo4w the gdal-ecw DLLs are released binary compiled. I never needed > > to compile them by myself. Are you saying that osgeo4w is doing something > > incorrect? I guess with OSGeo4W you can install just GDAL (and gdal-ecw) and it will be under the MIT license. If you install GDAL and QGIS they must be under the GPL. So in theory you shouldn't be able to install all three? It doesn't really seem to work... perhaps this demonstrates an inherent problem with the whole system of software licensing. > The gdal/ecw case is particularly complex, as the ECW licence changes > regularly and is some kind of opensource but not really. The "new" read-only ECW dlls that are distributed in the QGIS Windows installer are not at all open source. Paolo said something not long ago about needing to talk to Erdas to clarify the situation, as apparently at one stage they granted special permission to redistribute them with QGIS. But I'm pretty sure after this conversation that they are *not* redistributable with QGIS. The license on the "new" dlls has changed at least once, but I don't see how it could affect this conversation, as it has never been GPL compatible. The "old" read-write ECW libs that are typically used on linux can supposedly be distributed with GPL software, so I think it would make sense to use them also on Windows (especially since they are read-write). ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
2012/3/27 Vincent Picavet > Hi, > > > In osgeo4w the gdal-ecw DLLs are released binary compiled. I never needed > > to compile them by myself. Are you saying that osgeo4w is doing something > > incorrect? > > The gdal/ecw case is particularly complex, as the ECW licence changes > regularly and is some kind of opensource but not really. > > As for YOUR specific case, I think you should have understood by now that > it's > not possible to use Arcgis inside a python plugin, whatever the energy you > deploy to try to convince the world to the opposite. > I don't want to convince anyone vincent :) I'm just exploring the various corner cases to understand precisely what can be done and what not. It simply sounds strange to me that, somehow, ECW closed source code can arrive into the QGis process space. It means there's a hole somewhere. Ok, ECW releases the headers as open source, but the underlying SDK algorithms and data structures aren't. It follows that SOMEHOW some proprietary code can "infect" the purity of the QGis process. You can give me all the reasons, but I suppose that if it happens for ECW it can be reproduced, SOMEHOW, for anything else. For my plugin I already have decided what to do. This is a general question now. If a Qgis user can leavarage a proprietary algorithm (ECW), anyway it happens, it can happen again :) giovanni ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
Hi Giovanni, On Tue, 27. Mar 2012 at 09:51:52 +0200, G. Allegri wrote: >Ops. How QGis can use GDAL which uses ECW?! >1 - GDAL is LGPL I think I saw that a couple of time in this thread already. GDAL is not LGPL, it is X/MIT. More relaxed - you can do just about anything with it - including using it in closed proprietary stuff like ArcGIS. Jürgen -- Jürgen E. Fischer norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31 Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13Fax. +49-4931-918175-50 Software Engineer D-26506 Norden http://www.norbit.de IRC: jef on FreeNode committ(ed|ing) to Quantum GIS -- norBIT Gesellschaft fuer Unternehmensberatung und Informationssysteme mbH Rheinstrasse 13, 26506 Norden GF: Jelto Buurman, HR: Amtsgericht Emden, HRB 5502 ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
Hi, > In osgeo4w the gdal-ecw DLLs are released binary compiled. I never needed > to compile them by myself. Are you saying that osgeo4w is doing something > incorrect? The gdal/ecw case is particularly complex, as the ECW licence changes regularly and is some kind of opensource but not really. As for YOUR specific case, I think you should have understood by now that it's not possible to use Arcgis inside a python plugin, whatever the energy you deploy to try to convince the world to the opposite. The only exception to that would be to have a python plugin which is _not dependant_ on arcgis (which means arcgis is completely optional), and which communicate with another process. The latter can use arcgis, can be free or non-free, but must _not_ import any GPL code and _must_ do data exchange through a non contaminating method : file, database, webservice_ Vincent > > > ciao > > p > > > > -- > > Paolo Corti > > Geospatial software developer > > web: http://www.paolocorti.net > > twitter: @capooti > > skype: capooti ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
Apologies for the messy email, I'm on the bus :-p But see below: > 2012/3/27 Giovanni Manghi >> >> On Tue, 2012-03-27 at 09:51 +0200, G. Allegri wrote: >> > Ops. How QGis can use GDAL which uses ECW?! >> >> > 3 - osgeo4w bundles gdal-ecw DLL >> >> I think there are no erdas libraries in the gdal-ecw package, it is just >> a "bridge" (sorry if it is not the right term) between gdal and the >> erdas libraries that the user must get and copy manually in his system. >> >> cheers > > > Exactly, the same would happen with an LGPL bridge to ArcPy ;) > > *Forget Qgis for a moment* > I create an LGPL library on top of arcpy. Stop > > Then, I release a GPL plugin for QGis that can import and use the above LGPL library. > QGis + GPL imports an LGPL library and ONLY USE ITS CODE. The GPL doesn't import arcpy, nor use any proprietary code. I think the question you have to ask here is this: does your plugin require arcpy to function properly (whether via a bridge or not)? If it doesn't work without it, then its a derivative work*... and since it obviously doesn't work without pyqgis, which is gpl, it can't legally be released as is. Carson * I'm not a lawyer, so take what I say with a grain of salt... blah blah... > > giovanni > > >> >> -- Giovanni -- >> > > > ___ > Qgis-developer mailing list > Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
2012/3/27 Giovanni Manghi > On Tue, 2012-03-27 at 09:51 +0200, G. Allegri wrote: > > Ops. How QGis can use GDAL which uses ECW?! > > > 3 - osgeo4w bundles gdal-ecw DLL > > I think there are no erdas libraries in the gdal-ecw package, it is just > a "bridge" (sorry if it is not the right term) between gdal and the > erdas libraries that the user must get and copy manually in his system. > > cheers > Exactly, the same would happen with an LGPL bridge to ArcPy ;) *Forget Qgis for a moment* I create an LGPL library on top of arcpy. Stop Then, I release a GPL plugin for QGis that can import and use the above LGPL library. QGis + GPL imports an LGPL library and ONLY USE ITS CODE. The GPL doesn't import arcpy, nor use any proprietary code. giovanni > -- Giovanni -- > > ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
On Tue, 2012-03-27 at 09:51 +0200, G. Allegri wrote: > Ops. How QGis can use GDAL which uses ECW?! > 3 - osgeo4w bundles gdal-ecw DLL I think there are no erdas libraries in the gdal-ecw package, it is just a "bridge" (sorry if it is not the right term) between gdal and the erdas libraries that the user must get and copy manually in his system. cheers -- Giovanni -- ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
Ops. How QGis can use GDAL which uses ECW?! 1 - GDAL is LGPL 2 - it's imported by QGis, so it doesn't use QGis but is used by... 3 - osgeo4w bundles gdal-ecw DLL giovanni 2012/3/27 Noli Sicad > QGis (GPL) + GPL + LGPL + proprietary = illegal. > > Any proprietary code added to GPL is illegal. Unless they re license > the code as LGPL. > > Noli > > > > On 3/27/12, Paolo Corti wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 9:07 AM, G. Allegri wrote: > >> I premit that I've already chosen a solution to bypass these issues: > one, > >> common library and two plugins, one for qgis and one for arcpy. The > >> plugins > >> will interact through pickling, sharing a common data structure from the > >> common library. This is the easiest solution for me to deploy (no > servers > >> as > >> with iPython or RabbitMQ). > >> > > > > Hi Giovanni > > as others suggested, you can not use arcpy for > > writing a QGIS plugin, if you are willing to deploy it as open source > > (ie it is not for your company internal use). QGIS plugins must be > > released as GPL. > > Are you considering to release your solution for the community? If not > > - as I think - you do not need to bother ;) > > > >> > >> fTool + GDAL python bindings + ECW > >> > > > > same here, if you are willing to open your code to the community. > > For the same reason GDAL packages are not built with ecw support (same > > for file gdb, arcsde ecc ecc), but you must compile it for yourself if > > you need it. > > > > ciao > > p > > > > -- > > Paolo Corti > > Geospatial software developer > > web: http://www.paolocorti.net > > twitter: @capooti > > skype: capooti > > ___ > > Qgis-developer mailing list > > Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org > > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > > > ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
2012/3/27 Paolo Corti > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 9:07 AM, G. Allegri wrote: > > I premit that I've already chosen a solution to bypass these issues: one, > > common library and two plugins, one for qgis and one for arcpy. The > plugins > > will interact through pickling, sharing a common data structure from the > > common library. This is the easiest solution for me to deploy (no > servers as > > with iPython or RabbitMQ). > > > > Hi Giovanni > as others suggested, you can not use arcpy for > writing a QGIS plugin, if you are willing to deploy it as open source > (ie it is not for your company internal use). QGIS plugins must be > released as GPL. > Are you considering to release your solution for the community? If not > - as I think - you do not need to bother ;) > Paolo, if I'm asking the questions is not for bothering. It's something important to me, both as a developer and a cunsoltor for my customers. If you fell this is not the right place to ask it, I will move to the FSF forums or the italian ASSOLI. > > > > > fTool + GDAL python bindings + ECW > > > > same here, if you are willing to open your code to the community. > For the same reason GDAL packages are not built with ecw support (same > for file gdb, arcsde ecc ecc), but you must compile it for yourself if > you need it. > In osgeo4w the gdal-ecw DLLs are released binary compiled. I never needed to compile them by myself. Are you saying that osgeo4w is doing something incorrect? > > ciao > p > > -- > Paolo Corti > Geospatial software developer > web: http://www.paolocorti.net > twitter: @capooti > skype: capooti > ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
QGis (GPL) + GPL + LGPL + proprietary = illegal. Any proprietary code added to GPL is illegal. Unless they re license the code as LGPL. Noli On 3/27/12, Paolo Corti wrote: > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 9:07 AM, G. Allegri wrote: >> I premit that I've already chosen a solution to bypass these issues: one, >> common library and two plugins, one for qgis and one for arcpy. The >> plugins >> will interact through pickling, sharing a common data structure from the >> common library. This is the easiest solution for me to deploy (no servers >> as >> with iPython or RabbitMQ). >> > > Hi Giovanni > as others suggested, you can not use arcpy for > writing a QGIS plugin, if you are willing to deploy it as open source > (ie it is not for your company internal use). QGIS plugins must be > released as GPL. > Are you considering to release your solution for the community? If not > - as I think - you do not need to bother ;) > >> >> fTool + GDAL python bindings + ECW >> > > same here, if you are willing to open your code to the community. > For the same reason GDAL packages are not built with ecw support (same > for file gdb, arcsde ecc ecc), but you must compile it for yourself if > you need it. > > ciao > p > > -- > Paolo Corti > Geospatial software developer > web: http://www.paolocorti.net > twitter: @capooti > skype: capooti > ___ > Qgis-developer mailing list > Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 9:07 AM, G. Allegri wrote: > I premit that I've already chosen a solution to bypass these issues: one, > common library and two plugins, one for qgis and one for arcpy. The plugins > will interact through pickling, sharing a common data structure from the > common library. This is the easiest solution for me to deploy (no servers as > with iPython or RabbitMQ). > Hi Giovanni as others suggested, you can not use arcpy for writing a QGIS plugin, if you are willing to deploy it as open source (ie it is not for your company internal use). QGIS plugins must be released as GPL. Are you considering to release your solution for the community? If not - as I think - you do not need to bother ;) > > fTool + GDAL python bindings + ECW > same here, if you are willing to open your code to the community. For the same reason GDAL packages are not built with ecw support (same for file gdb, arcsde ecc ecc), but you must compile it for yourself if you need it. ciao p -- Paolo Corti Geospatial software developer web: http://www.paolocorti.net twitter: @capooti skype: capooti ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: import proprietary code inside a python plugin
I premit that I've already chosen a solution to bypass these issues: one, common library and two plugins, one for qgis and one for arcpy. The plugins will interact through pickling, sharing a common data structure from the common library. This is the easiest solution for me to deploy (no servers as with iPython or RabbitMQ). So, at the end, QGis + GPL + proprietary = illegal. But what about QGis + GPL + LGPL + proprietary? It's not a perversion, it's something that we already have: fTool + GDAL python bindings + ECW giovanni 2012/3/27 Alister Hood > > Message: 4 > > Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:33:54 +0200 > > From: Tim Sutton > > > > > I personnaly consider that libraries should not be under a GPL licence > > but a > > > LGPL one, which keeps the opensource aspect while facilitating mixing > > with > > > other softwares. GPL is fine with end user software built on top of > LGPL > > libs. > > > That said, it would require to relicence all qgis source code as LGPL > > with all > > > contributors agreeing to the change. > > > > I don't think this will happen soon both for logistical reasons and > > philosophical - many of us who have contributed code to the project > > would object to the license switch. > > Since QGIS includes a server application now, perhaps you should consider > relicensing under the *more* restrictive AGPL ;) > > Does anyone know about distributing *only source code* as *public domain* > for a plugin which links with proprietary software? > I think it would not be allowed, but I'm not sure. > > Alister > ___ > Qgis-developer mailing list > Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > ___ Qgis-developer mailing list Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
