[Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Johan Nilsson 
-- Forwarded message --
From: Johan Nilsson 
Date: 2012/9/22
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?
To: Andre Joost 


Andre Bernard.
There is another thing with 'Personal geodatabase' and that is that ESRI
don't recommend to use it in their documentation because it slow and get
really slow if they are bigger and the absolute size are limited. mdb are
also a propretarian format and there are problem to read and write without
MS Access.


2012/9/22 Andre Joost 

> HiBernd,
>
> apart from the solution you mention, MS Access database tables can also be
> accessed via the evis plugin. But this is only a one-way-importer.
>
> It should be possible to connect to MDBs the same way as postgis and
> spatialite databases. I think the problem comes with database
> synchronisation and parallel working on the same database.
>
> In such cases, the ultimate answer is: "You can have what you want, if you
> pay a developer for it."
>
> Greetings,
> André Joost
>
> Am 22.09.2012 00:59, schrieb Bernd Vogelgesang:
>
>  Hi there,
>> from a talk at the German User Meeting today in Kassel (thanx to Claas
>> for the organization), i got the impression that ONE important thing in
>> qgis is still missing:
>> Direct support for normal access databases!
>>
>> Personal geodatabases work like a charm now (many thanx for this!), but
>> i was told, that a lot of people who would be the perfect target group
>> for qgis, still work on a completely gis-free level, dealing with their
>> data in normal access databases or even worse formats.
>>
>> To catch those people and show them the light, it seems to me to be
>> crucial, that qgis would be able to add/join/edit normal tables from
>> normal access database as well without having to do such odbc-magic
>> apprx. 99% of the world population have never heard of.
>>
>> Here
>> http://osgeo-org.1560.n6.**nabble.com/direct-mdb-read-in-**
>> QGis-td4637313.html
>> i found a "solution" for geeks, but how about those people like me or
>> john doe, who have no idea about how to compile gdal with other stuff
>> but are merely able to do some gis work?
>>
>> I couldn'd find a feature request on the hub on this matter, so i wonder
>> if this would be a good feature request, or whether there are technical,
>> legal or "political" constraints preventing such a support so far.
>>
>> As far as i understand ESRI personal geodatabases are just some pimped
>> access databases, so the impossibility to just load such in qgis is a
>> mystery to me.
>>
>> Can anybody shed some light on this issue?
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Andre Joost 

Am 22.09.2012 09:17, schrieb Johan Nilsson:


There is another thing with 'Personal geodatabase' and that is that ESRI
don't recommend to use it in their documentation because it slow and get
really slow if they are bigger and the absolute size are limited.


Yes, that's true. Spatial index will not be possible on MDBs (as well as 
on spataialite). But MS Access is widely spread, so a connection would 
be highly appreciated. And MDBs are easily portable (again, as well as 
spatialite). Thats a great advantage to Postgis.


Greetings,
Andre Joost

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Re: [Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Johan Nilsson 
Okey. I'm new to database use i GIS and have only used file database that
ESRI recommend. But if mdb are a propretarian and only work well with MS
access, how can it then be highly portable?

2012/9/22 Andre Joost 

> Am 22.09.2012 09:17, schrieb Johan Nilsson:
>
>
>  There is another thing with 'Personal geodatabase' and that is that ESRI
>> don't recommend to use it in their documentation because it slow and get
>> really slow if they are bigger and the absolute size are limited.
>>
>
> Yes, that's true. Spatial index will not be possible on MDBs (as well as
> on spataialite). But MS Access is widely spread, so a connection would be
> highly appreciated. And MDBs are easily portable (again, as well as
> spatialite). Thats a great advantage to Postgis.
>
> Greetings,
> Andre Joost
>
>
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Re: [Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Micha Silver 

  
  
On 09/22/2012 10:27 AM, Andre Joost wrote:
Am
  22.09.2012 09:17, schrieb Johan Nilsson:
  
  
  There is another thing with 'Personal
geodatabase' and that is that ESRI

don't recommend to use it in their documentation because it slow
and get

really slow if they are bigger and the absolute size are
limited.

  
  
  Yes, that's true. Spatial index will not be possible on MDBs (as
  well as on spataialite). But MS Access is widely spread, so a
  connection would be highly appreciated. And MDBs are easily
  portable (again, as well as spatialite). Thats a great advantage
  to Postgis.
  
  


I'm not sure I understood your comment, but spatial indexing is
definitely supported in Spatialite using the R*Tree structure.
Best regards,

-- 
Micha

Greetings,
  
  Andre Joost
  
  
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-- 
Micha Silver
GIS Consultant, Arava Development Co.
http://www.surfaces.co.il
  

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Re: [Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Andre Joost 

Am 22.09.2012 09:43, schrieb Johan Nilsson:

Okey. I'm new to database use i GIS and have only used file database that
ESRI recommend. But if mdb are a propretarian and only work well with MS
access, how can it then be highly portable?



I thought of "portable" in the sense of taking a database from one 
computer to another. MDB  and sqlite are just one file, Shapefile a 
couple of files, and PostgreSQL/Postgis is very complicated to 
share/take with you or make a security copy.


Greetings,
André Joost

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Re: [Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Andre Joost 

Am 22.09.2012 13:47, schrieb Micha Silver:

On 09/22/2012 10:27 AM, Andre Joost wrote:

 Am 22.09.2012 09:17, schrieb Johan Nilsson:


 There is another thing with 'Personal geodatabase' and that is that ESRI
 don't recommend to use it in their documentation because it slow and get
 really slow if they are bigger and the absolute size are limited.


 Yes, that's true. Spatial index will not be possible on MDBs (as well as on
 spataialite). But MS Access is widely spread, so a connection would be highly
 appreciated. And MDBs are easily portable (again, as well as spatialite).
 Thats a great advantage to Postgis.



I'm not sure I understood your comment, but spatial indexing is definitely
supported in Spatialite using the R*Tree structure.


I referred to the spatialite 2.1 manual still first in Google search.

I guess its not fully supported by the stable Qgis 1.8.0.
In DB Manager, I have an entry Spatial Index, but get an error
"no such module: VirtualSpatialIndex". Qspatialite throws an error for 
the same reason, and a message "No spatial index defined".


I read that spatialitegui might solve the problem, but I want to work 
inside Qgis. So still nothing for "normal" people ;-)


Using Master I get other errors about missing pyspatialite.

Gruß,
André Joost

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Re: [Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Noli Sicad 
On 9/22/12, Andre Joost  wrote:

> I referred to the spatialite 2.1 manual still first in Google search.
>
> I guess its not fully supported by the stable Qgis 1.8.0.
> In DB Manager, I have an entry Spatial Index, but get an error
> "no such module: VirtualSpatialIndex". Qspatialite throws an error for
> the same reason, and a message "No spatial index defined".
>
> I read that spatialitegui might solve the problem, but I want to work
> inside Qgis. So still nothing for "normal" people ;-)
>
> Using Master I get other errors about missing pyspatialite.

Here's to install pyspatialite.

http://www.gaia-gis.it/spatialite-3.0.0-BETA/spatialite-cookbook/html/python.html

Noli
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Re: [Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Micha Silver 

  
  
Hi Andre:

On 09/22/2012 03:17 PM, Andre Joost wrote:
Am
  22.09.2012 13:47, schrieb Micha Silver:
  
  On 09/22/2012 10:27 AM, Andre Joost wrote:

 Am 22.09.2012 09:17, schrieb Johan
  Nilsson:
  
  
   There is another thing with 'Personal
geodatabase' and that is that ESRI

 don't recommend to use it in their documentation because it
slow and get

 really slow if they are bigger and the absolute size are
limited.

  
  
   Yes, that's true. Spatial index will not be possible on MDBs
  (as well as on
  
   spataialite). But MS Access is widely spread, so a connection
  would be highly
  
   appreciated. And MDBs are easily portable (again, as well as
  spatialite).
  
   Thats a great advantage to Postgis.
  
  


I'm not sure I understood your comment, but spatial indexing is
definitely

supported in Spatialite using the R*Tree structure.

  
  
  I referred to the spatialite 2.1 manual still first in Google
  search.
  
  


I learned a lot from:
http://www.gaia-gis.it/spatialite-3.0.0-BETA/spatialite-cookbook/html/rtree.html

Also have a look at these blog posts:
http://northredoubt.com/n/2012/01/18/spatialite-and-spatial-indexes/
http://www.surfaces.co.il/?p=1196

I
  guess its not fully supported by the stable Qgis 1.8.0.
  
  In DB Manager, I have an entry Spatial Index, but get an error
  
  "no such module: VirtualSpatialIndex". Qspatialite throws an error
  for the same reason, and a message "No spatial index defined".
  
  


I have a feeling that QSpatialite is somewhat behind. I'm using
spatialite 3.0 with the spatialite_gui 1.5 and there you have access
to the new format for making use of spatial indexes.

The problem is that, unlike PostGIS, spatial indexes are not used
automatically. After you create a spatial index on a table, you must
then construct your query to make use of it. This is certainly
non-intuitive for "normal people".

Regards,
Micha


   
I read
  that spatialitegui might solve the problem, but I want to work
  inside Qgis. So still nothing for "normal" people ;-)
  
  
  Using Master I get other errors about missing pyspatialite.
  
  
  Gruß,
  
  André Joost
  
  
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-- 
Micha Silver
GIS Consultant, Arava Development Co.
http://www.surfaces.co.il
  

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Re: [Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Johan Nilsson 
Fist. I know very little about using dedicated realationdatabase in GIS.
I not sure about why ESRI support mdb then they quiet strongly recommend
you NOT to use it.

http://webhelp.esri.com/arcgisdesktop/9.2/index.cfm?topicname=types_of_geodatabases

I think to hold files in a directory (folder)  are a very sheep price
compared to slow performance limited storage to max 2 GB.

Does anyone know if there may be other problems with MS Access files?
Missed seached data and so on?

Cheers


2012/9/22 Andre Joost 

> Am 22.09.2012 09:43, schrieb Johan Nilsson:
>
>  Okey. I'm new to database use i GIS and have only used file database that
>> ESRI recommend. But if mdb are a propretarian and only work well with MS
>> access, how can it then be highly portable?
>>
>>
> I thought of "portable" in the sense of taking a database from one
> computer to another. MDB  and sqlite are just one file, Shapefile a couple
> of files, and PostgreSQL/Postgis is very complicated to share/take with you
> or make a security copy.
>
> Greetings,
> André Joost
>
>
> __**_
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Re: [Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Andre Joost 

Am 22.09.2012 14:57, schrieb Micha Silver:



I have a feeling that QSpatialite is somewhat behind. I'm using spatialite 3.0
with the spatialite_gui 1.5 and there you have access to the new format for
making use of spatial indexes.

The problem is that, unlike PostGIS, spatial indexes are not used automatically.
After you create a spatial index on a table, you must then construct your query
to make use of it. This is certainly non-intuitive for "normal people".



I would surely use those spatial index features if they are fully 
incorporated in Qgis. In the meantime, I don't wont to spoil my existing 
databases with external programs. For large datasets, I still can export 
to my Openstreetmap Postgis database, which works fine.


Ok, but the topic here is not about spatialite or Postgis databases, but 
MS Access ones.


Greetings,
André Joost

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[Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Andrea Peri 
>

>>* I'm not sure I understood your comment, but spatial indexing is 
>>definitely*>>* supported in Spatialite using the R*Tree structure.*>
>I referred to the spatialite 2.1 manual still first in Google search.
>
>I guess its not fully supported by the stable Qgis 1.8.0.
>In DB Manager, I have an entry Spatial Index, but get an error
>"no such module: VirtualSpatialIndex". Qspatialite throws an error for
>the same reason, and a message "No spatial index defined".
>
>I read that spatialitegui might solve the problem, but I want to work
>inside Qgis. So still nothing for "normal" people ;-)
>
>Using Master I get other errors about missing pyspatialite.
>
>Gruß,
>André Joost


The spatialite  2.1 is a three year older version.

As you can understand if you compare an access 97 db with an access 2002 db
you can find many differenze.
The same happened for spatialite.

as example:
If you try to open an access 97 db with a program that want an access 2002
you more probably can see the same error.
 :)


So if you want to pass from a access97 to an access 2002 you should buy the
access program and use it.
AFAIK it is the only world program capable to trasform a acces 97 file in
an access 2002 file.

The actual stable version of spatialite is the 3.0.1.
This version is compatible with the qgis spatialite driver.
Actually the spatialite developer is releasing the spatialite 4.0.
It is in RC phase.
After the release stable of splite 4.0 , "I hope" the qgis driver for
splite will be updated to support the 4.0 version.

>I referred to the spatialite 2.1 manual still first in Google search.


Be the first in google search  mean only that there is many links on
internet.
However searching "spatialite" on google the first result is the homeèage
of spatialite site where there is the link to the last stable version.3.0.1
:)

Regads,

-- 
-
Andrea Peri
. . . . . . . . .
qwerty àèìòù
-
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Re: [Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Randal Hale 
I don't know all the reasons for Access Geodatabases but here is what I 
do know.


When ArcINFO started turning into the desktop product there was a move 
to get things into a "database". ESRI had used INFO/Coverages for years. 
I think the quickest way to get to that end was Access. You could fold 
all your vector data into Access. It is slow from ArcGIS. You can't 
store raster. It has the habit of becoming very large very quickly and 
imploding. I think somewhere between 500Mb and 2 Gb were the problem 
sizes. They introduced file based geodatabases which aren't databases 
and aren't file based - they are directories and in my opinion are 
coverages Part II. File based databases are stable and much easier to 
work with - and too proprietary for my tastes now. You can get the data 
out but it isn't easy.


Randy

Randal Hale, GISP
North River Geographic Systems, Inc
http://www.northrivergeographic.com
423.653.3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com
twitter:rjhale
http://about.me/rjhale

On 9/22/2012 9:10 AM, Johan Nilsson wrote:
Fist. I know very little about using dedicated realationdatabase in 
GIS.   I not sure about why ESRI support mdb then they quiet strongly 
recommend you NOT to use it.


http://webhelp.esri.com/arcgisdesktop/9.2/index.cfm?topicname=types_of_geodatabases

I think to hold files in a directory (folder)  are a very sheep price 
compared to slow performance limited storage to max 2 GB.


Does anyone know if there may be other problems with MS Access files? 
Missed seached data and so on?


Cheers


2012/9/22 Andre Joost >


Am 22.09.2012 09:43, schrieb Johan Nilsson:

Okey. I'm new to database use i GIS and have only used file
database that
ESRI recommend. But if mdb are a propretarian and only work
well with MS
access, how can it then be highly portable?


I thought of "portable" in the sense of taking a database from one
computer to another. MDB  and sqlite are just one file, Shapefile
a couple of files, and PostgreSQL/Postgis is very complicated to
share/take with you or make a security copy.

Greetings,
André Joost


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[Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Andrea Peri 
>>* I have a feeling that QSpatialite is somewhat behind. I'm using spatialite 
>>3.0*>>* with the spatialite_gui 1.5 and there you have access to the new 
>>format for*>>* making use of spatial indexes.*>>**>>* The problem is that, 
>>unlike PostGIS, spatial indexes are not used automatically.*>>* After you 
>>create a spatial index on a table, you must then construct your query*>>* to 
>>make use of it. This is certainly non-intuitive for "normal people".*>>**>
>I would surely use those spatial index features if they are fully
>incorporated in Qgis. In the meantime, I don't wont to spoil my existing
>databases with external programs. For large datasets, I still can export
>to my Openstreetmap Postgis database, which works fine.
>
>Ok, but the topic here is not about spatialite or Postgis databases, but
>MS Access ones.
>
>Greetings,
>André Joost

The spatialite spatil-index are not automatically applicated.
The client must apply it the index.

In the qgis spatialite driver this happened.
The qgis driver for spatialite automatically apply the index when available.

Just to test this,
you can create a huge DB on spatialite without any spatial-index and see
the time to navigate it on details scale.
After you create an index (please read how to create a spatial index in a
spatialite db) and see the difference.

Regards,

-- 
-
Andrea Peri
. . . . . . . . .
qwerty àèìòù
-
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Re: [Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Paolo Cavallini 
Il 22/09/2012 13:55, Andre Joost ha scritto:

> PostgreSQL/Postgis is very complicated to share/take with you or make a 
> security copy.

actually it is easier:

CREATE USER user
GRANT SELECT ON table TO user

no need to move files around, risky and inelegant.
all the best.
-- 
Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia
www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario
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Re: [Qgis-user] Fwd: "Normal" mdb support possible for "normal" people?

2012-09-22 Thread Yves Jacolin 
Le samedi 22 septembre 2012 16:47:51 Paolo Cavallini a écrit :
> Il 22/09/2012 13:55, Andre Joost ha scritto:
> > PostgreSQL/Postgis is very complicated to share/take with you or make a
> > security copy.
> actually it is easier:
> 
> CREATE USER user
> GRANT SELECT ON table TO user
> 
> no need to move files around, risky and inelegant.
> all the best.

Paolo,

Sharing/using data doesn't  always mean inside the same network/company. Some 
time you need to share data outside you company and so it is easier to share 
files. Some user are not DB user but can use QGIS for what they need.

But I am sure you know this ;) 

I always talk about spatialite format in my trainning as I am sure it is the 
futur most common GIS formats. Spatialite and PostGIS support the same OGC 
standard for DB (and same lib ?) so spatial functions are the same.

I tested migrating a SQL script a few monthes ago from PostGIS to Spatialite 
and I only need to change geometry column name to make things working :)

Y.
-- 
Yves Jacolin
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Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?

2012-09-22 Thread Gerardo Jimenez 
I do not see the problem of using one list only. Besides, there is google 
translate...q

Gerardo Jiménez Delgado
Instituto de Investigaciones Antropológicas
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Ciudad Universitaria s/n
Coyoacan 04510
Mexico City
Mexico

56 22 95 16

From: ouyang.le...@hotmail.com
To: zolt...@geograph.co.za; qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:31:45 +
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] add new spanish-speaking list ?





Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 11:12:44 +0200
From: zolt...@geograph.co.za


  

  
  
On 2012/09/21 11:09,
  j.all...@agglo-paysflers.fr wrote:


Je suis
  également favorable à une seule liste
Én
is   \0/


But then do we have to make mandatory to post in all supported languages ? 
Du coup, on doit écrire dans toutes les langues ?
所以，是不是必须用每个语言写？
¿Entonces tenemos que escribir en todos los idiomas?

OK, the Spanish may be wrong and I am not up to the Hungarian challenge ;)

Regards,

Leyan
  

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