Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2005-01-15 Thread Joachim Van der Auwera
P Witte wrote:
Some time ago I wrote about a problem with a green, jinxed PC I have, and I
received a lot of helpful advice on this list - Thank you! I had this
machine built for me at a local computer shop. Not the industry's brightest
people, pehaps, but very helpful and friendly. They were at a complete loss.
In desperation, one of the guys brought his own XP3200+ to work and plugged
it into my machine. Hey presto! It worked. Then he took my CPU and plugged
it into his machine. Lo and behold it worked too! Finally, he claimes, he
put my CPU back into my machine - and that too worked! So I took it home,
and my green beauty has been working flawlessly for the past 48 hours - a
record!.
I phoned the guy up to tell him so. He says that his machine doesnt work
anymore! He is adamant that I have my own CPU and he his. Whats he got? The
computer clap? or is it all clap trap? I dont know.
Perhaps Roy has a point about the reliability of Athlons. Perhaps it was
just dirty contacts. Perhaps it was the colour of the case. Hopefully the
saga has run its course.
I would guess a cooling issue. Re-apply some of the cooling pasta and 
make sure the cooler is properly connected. Badly connected coolers or 
lack of (sufficient) cooling pasta can cause serious nightmares.

Joachim
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2005-01-15 Thread Wolfgang Lenerz
On 15 Jan 2005 at 16:33, Joachim Van der Auwera wrote:


(...). Re-apply some of the cooling pasta 

and don't forget the tomato sauce

(sorry Joachim, I couldn't resist that one)


Wolfgang

www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2005-01-14 Thread P Witte
Some time ago I wrote about a problem with a green, jinxed PC I have, and I
received a lot of helpful advice on this list - Thank you! I had this
machine built for me at a local computer shop. Not the industry's brightest
people, pehaps, but very helpful and friendly. They were at a complete loss.

In desperation, one of the guys brought his own XP3200+ to work and plugged
it into my machine. Hey presto! It worked. Then he took my CPU and plugged
it into his machine. Lo and behold it worked too! Finally, he claimes, he
put my CPU back into my machine - and that too worked! So I took it home,
and my green beauty has been working flawlessly for the past 48 hours - a
record!.

I phoned the guy up to tell him so. He says that his machine doesnt work
anymore! He is adamant that I have my own CPU and he his. Whats he got? The
computer clap? or is it all clap trap? I dont know.

Perhaps Roy has a point about the reliability of Athlons. Perhaps it was
just dirty contacts. Perhaps it was the colour of the case. Hopefully the
saga has run its course.

Per

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-03 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Fri, 3 Dec 2004 at 02:21:35, Marcel Kilgus wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])

Tony Tebby wrote:
 btw there was a suggestion at QL2004 that a discussion group (rather
 than a mailing list) could be set up to discuss principles, fundamentals
 and long standing problems - any interest?

Well, I hate web based groups, but there is for example the usenet
group maus.computer.ql.intl, I just checked it for the first time in
months and it seems to be completely void of life.
It has been dead for many years I think.

It used to feed QBBS and even when it was alive it was mainly spam
after about 2000.

Tony

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-03 Thread P Witte
Tony Tebby writes:

 The worst aspect, I find, is the overthrow of the supervisor-level
 programming model, which is fundamental to QDOS\SMSQ/E. I
 should certainly like to hear TT's take on that.
 
 There are two aspects here which are completely separate.


Thank you for the explanation. When you put it like that it seems so clear
;) For some of us mere tinkerers a residual awe of supervisor mode (ie
wizard mode!) may still linger in odd places, clouding the vision.


 I could comment a bit more if someone could point me to a stable source
 of information on the road map for the instruction set.

Yes! and copy to this list, please.

 btw there was a suggestion at QL2004 that a discussion group (rather
 than a mailing list) could be set up to discuss principles, fundamentals
 and long standing problems - any interest?

Despite the noise and its many other failings, this list has been one of the
greatest successes in recent QL history, so Id be reluctant for another
split to occur. However, if others take the initiative, Id like to join
(I'll try to be good and not make a noise ;)

Per

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-03 Thread jms1
And you can subscribe to the SQLUG magazine for £5 a year.

- Original Message -
From: Malcolm Cadman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...


 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Gilpin
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 7:51 PM
 Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
 
 
  On 1 Dec 2004 at 14:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  (..),
 
  although I suppose it might be true that most on this list are
probably 
  members.
 
  Most?
 
  Probably not (any more).
 
 
 JG
 I did a quick survey a few days ago covering the last five months
 contributions to this list and found as follows:
 
 Out of 74 different contributors,
 
 25 (34%) are on the Quanta member's database.
 5   (7%)  are traders (and receive complimentary membership by
advertising)
 6  (8%)  are current or recent past committee members (complimentary
 membership)
 36 (48%) are non-members.
 2   (3%) have email addresses which comes up on my machine as
hieroglyphics
 (and it's *not* Pheobus Dokos.)
 
 So you see, about half and half, members and non-members.
 
 John Gilpin.(individual)

 Thanks, John.

 Perhaps that is why the debates on this list are so interesting ... :-)
 ... as the balance is around 50:50.

 A point to make is that we all know that this is a small community.  So
 those of us involved have to contribute to keeping things going.

 For example :

 I subscribe to Quanta magazine and I am a member - less than 15ukp a
 year.

 I subscribe to QL Today - less than 35ukp a year.

 Together around 1ukp a week.  Not much to ask is it ?

 I also organise the London Quanta and QL-Users Group, along with Ken
 Brickwood.  Another 30ukp a year towards the hire of the hall. Again not
 much to ask.

 ( Note : the group is open to non-Quanta members )

 I also buy hardware and software when they are available and are of
 interest.  Another contribution to keeping things going.

 I attend at Shows when I can, and so on.  Making a contribution helps
 make things happen.

 --
 Malcolm Cadman
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-02 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Thu, 2 Dec 2004 at 16:17:43, David Tubbs wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])



btw there was a suggestion at QL2004 that a discussion group (rather
than a mailing list) could be set up to discuss principles, fundamentals
and long standing problems - any interest?

Tony

Surely anything that might avoid the torrents of recapitulation and
inappropriate Subject lines would be beneficial.

I was amazed that Wolfgang L was able to distill the proforma flow .

A forum environment that preserved threads would be so much better.
You should invest in a decent mailer.

Clearly QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2
cannot manage this.  Maybe it can and you haven't configured it?

Turnpike optionally routes mail and assembles them in a forum-like (ie
newsgroup)  tree structure.
When using the ql-users routed list under Turnpike, I am really totally
unaware that it is _not_ a forum type group.

Tony
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-02 Thread Malcolm Cadman
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Phoebus Dokos 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

PhOEbus (Öïßâïò) Dokos
-or so you won't transpose it again... FOIVOS NTOKOS so there :-) -
Cor ... not him ! I know that guy :-)
--
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-02 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Thu, 2 Dec 2004 at 23:28:02, David Tubbs wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])

At 16:52 02/12/2004 +, you wrote:

Clearly QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2
cannot manage this.  Maybe it can and you haven't configured it?

Turnpike optionally routes mail and assembles them in a forum-like (ie
newsgroup)  tree structure.
When using the ql-users routed list under Turnpike, I am really totally
unaware that it is _not_ a forum type group.

I dont see any likelihood of that sort of trick, do you mean it gets
rid of those voluminous headers and recycle crud ? A long time since I
saw a Turnpike, it seemed cumbersome at the time.

The 'recycle crud' is absolutely no problem, as it is marked in red, so
the new comments are perfectly clear.  I actually prefer to see the
context in the message, rather than in a whole cycle of separate
messages.

What are the 'headers' you talk about?   You mean the email header?
That is hidden by default.

Tony
-- 
 QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255
 tony@surname.co.uk  http://www.firshman.co.uk
   Voice: +44(0)1442-828254   Fax: +44(0)1442-828255
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-02 Thread Marcel Kilgus
Tony Tebby wrote:
 btw there was a suggestion at QL2004 that a discussion group (rather
 than a mailing list) could be set up to discuss principles, fundamentals
 and long standing problems - any interest?

Well, I hate web based groups, but there is for example the usenet
group maus.computer.ql.intl, I just checked it for the first time in
months and it seems to be completely void of life.

Marcel

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RE: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-01 Thread Claude Mourier 00
Nobody knows :-)

-Message d'origine-
De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] la part de Tony
Tebby
Envoyé : mardi 30 novembre 2004 15:55
À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Objet : Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...


- Aucun (Nobody?) - wrote:

Tony Tebby though designed RomDisq from day one for any size 
possibly. 



He once told me that the driver would work up to 64MB.

  

But was he right?

Tony


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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-01 Thread P Witte
Nasta writes:

  WARNING: THIS IS ONE LONG MAIL!!!

True to form, eh ;)


 Here is an excerpt from MicroAPL's PortASM user's manual:


I find a lot of this pretty horrendous! Like being forced to speak English,
but not allowed to use AND, NOT, OR etc!

Having to re-write swaths of the OS (SMSQ/E, I suppose), with all those
little subtle differences could cause what is now a relatively stable
environment to throw up obscure bugs and errors for years to come.

The worst aspect, I find, is the overthrow of the supervisor-level
programming model, which is fundamental to QDOS\SMSQ/E. I should certainly
like to hear TT's take on that.

While the omissions and changes to the instruction set might still allow
code written for the CF to work on current systems, the latter would,
presumably, not. Although a version of Sbasic might be produced which would
be largely code-compatible.

The upside is that each version of CF seems to become more compatible with
68k systems, so perhaps in the nearish future such a project might be more
attractive?

Another way of looking at it would be to see a CF version of SMSQ/E as an
entirely separate branch, which would diverge ever more from our SMSQ/E.
Im not sure that this would feed back into the QL community - it may even
split it once again! - but it would allow the remaining handful of real 
SMSQ/E programmers to find a development path and commercial outlet 
for their skills.

Am I just sticking my head in the sand? Please advise!

BTW, I thought the Crusoe already had a microcode 68k emulator?

Per

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Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-01 Thread Wolfgang Lenerz
On 1 Dec 2004 at 14:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


(..), 

although I suppose it might be true that most on this list are probably  
members.

Most?

Probably not (any more).


Wolfgang

www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com

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Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-01 Thread dilwyn.jones
 Tarquin recently made a serious point when he asked if Quanta committee 
 meetings were secret. There are some of us on the committee who would like 
 to see members being much better informed about what the committee get up 
 to. That could be via this list, but it would be important to make a 
 distinction between official and informal announcements.
There are non-members on this list too - I don't see that Quanta should feel 
obliged to tell them the deliberations of every committee meeting! As has been 
pointed out lately, this is not a Quanta owned list, although I suppose it 
might be true that most on this list are probably members.

A better vehicle for publishing minutes like that would be the newsletter (or 
Quanta website perhaps although that would exclude any members without email 
and make the minutes accessible to non-members as well if an 'open' page)

Dilwyn Jones

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-01 Thread ZN
On 30.11.2004 at 11:25 Dave P wrote:

 I know a bit about the romdisq and it sounds like an interesting
 piece of hardware.
 How does the romdisq compare to a cut-down qubide with space for
 one or many CF cards? Not that there's much to 'cut down' on the
 already very sparse qubide!

If a dedicated CF-only Qubide was made, it would be signifficantly sparser,
indeed - if it went onto the expansion bus or onto the ROM slot of an
Aurora (that one has the requisite 'write' signal unlike the standard
port), it would need one CF connector, one GAL and some means to hold the
boot code, perhaps a small Flash. The nice thing about romDisq is that
having a true ROM mode means you can actually get the driver for romDisq
onto romDisq itself and still have the QL see it and initialize it
correctly at start-up. Not at all easy (verging on impossible) with CF so
you need another form of ROM to hold the driver. Also, on a dedicated CF
adaptor, one more chip would have to be used if the CF card itself is to be
hot-swapable, however it is doubtfull this would be needed as the hardware
itself would only be slightly larger than the CF connector, and therefore
only very slightly larger than ROMdisq. With an approach like romDisq, the
hardware would stay very similar to romDisq - one programmable logic chip,
one ROM-like device for the driver, and a CF connector.

N.

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Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-01 Thread John Gilpin

- Original Message - 
From: Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...


 On 1 Dec 2004 at 14:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 (..),

 although I suppose it might be true that most on this list are probably 
 members.

 Most?

 Probably not (any more).


JG
I did a quick survey a few days ago covering the last five months
contributions to this list and found as follows:

Out of 74 different contributors,

25 (34%) are on the Quanta member's database.
5   (7%)  are traders (and receive complimentary membership by advertising)
6  (8%)  are current or recent past committee members (complimentary
membership)
36 (48%) are non-members.
2   (3%) have email addresses which comes up on my machine as hieroglyphics
(and it's *not* Pheobus Dokos.)

So you see, about half and half, members and non-members.

John Gilpin.(individual)

 Wolfgang
 

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-12-01 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Wed, 1 Dec 2004 at 21:55:42, John Gilpin wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])


JG
I did a quick survey a few days ago covering the last five months
contributions to this list and found as follows:

Out of 74 different contributors,

25 (34%) are on the Quanta member's database.
5   (7%)  are traders (and receive complimentary membership by advertising)
6  (8%)  are current or recent past committee members (complimentary
membership)
36 (48%) are non-members.
2   (3%) have email addresses which comes up on my machine as hieroglyphics
(and it's *not* Pheobus Dokos.)

So you see, about half and half, members and non-members.

John Gilpin.(individual)
There are many more readers on the list.

'help' says one can get them all by sending an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

with body of message:

who password

 but it replies with You are not allowed to retrieve the list
membership
Hrmm.  It worked last time!

Bruce - can I have the list please as I want to check my emailshot
database.

You can get the password (randomly set I think as I have never set one)
emailed to you from
http://lists.q-v-d.com/options.cgi/ql-users-q-v-d.com

BTW Bruce, the 'help' email is badly laid out.
There are hard line breaks at a few characters short of the usual 70 or
so.  It makes it exceedingly difficult to read. I need help reading the
'help' (8-)#

This is because each line has a leading 8 hard spaces.
Maybe you have written out a text file badly, or is it hard coded?

Tony
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Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread dilwyn.jones
 I use them for Worldnews - all under XP.
 
 We have had a DVB-s satellite cards running for over two years.
 They also have two HP PVR cards which have been running for a year or
 so.
 These all save video 24hrs, and have given no problem.
 
 Ben uses a HP Nexus terrestrial satellite card in a Windows media
 edition PC with no problem.
 
 The only issue I had was that the supplied CD were no use.
 They all needed drivers (and operating software) from their web site.
 
 Speak to their UK technical help line.   One gets through _always_ to a
 person who knows the systems.  No remote call centre there.
Must be a different place to where I went through then!

You seem to live on adifferent planet to me lately Tony.

Anyway, it's gone now, swapped it for something much more useful (front panel 
USB sockets and cabling so I no longer have to go round behind ot plug things 
in )from someone at work
Dilwyn Jones

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Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread dilwyn.jones
 Please do fill in the form.  It is now very much not just a Quanta 
 questionnaire.
 
 Tony
Tony, remember when I mentioned I didn't see a 'thank you' page? Did you 
actually get a form from me at the time? If not, let me know, I'll fill it in 
again.

Dilwyn Jones

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Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread dilwyn.jones
 These two guys at Hauppauge UK have always solved my problems:
 
 Ben Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Elton Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hmm, you obviously had access to better people than I did then.

 Their software needs nursing.  In particular, it is vital you have a
 compatible MSIE loaded.  The picture viewing is using a modified MS
 Internet explorer window (at least on the winTV software I was using).
What got me was that it worked fine on the same PC with Win98 SE installed. And 
that has an older IE than WinXP!

 To recover from a wrong driver installation, there is a complicated, but
 well documented, backtrack path.  You have to run a DOS program to clean
 the system area and registry.  Mine is dvbclear.exe, but there may be
 others.
HCWCLEAR.EXE in my case. Total clear out, that part did work brilliantly!

 You would certainly have got in deep water using drivers from their
 supplied CDs.  As I said, not one of the four or five systems I
 installed worked off the CDs.
Even the latest drivers from their website failed to get it past the Found New 
Hardware Wizard stage. By the end I had an extensive collection of drivers from 
early Win95 days right up to their most recent (in one case unreleased) driver.

 Drivers also must be installed before putting in the card - for my
 systems anyway.
At least their manuals make this clear. Installing the drivers before card 
installation didn't lock it up, it was the Found New Hardware Wizard stage each 
and every time. With the exception of installing the Windows 2000 drivers, it 
got past the Found new Hardware wizard, but the Win 2000 applications wouldn't 
run on XP and the XP applications complained about the drivers!

I think I must have tried just about every combination of their software and as 
many versions of the drivers for my PC's hardware. Just about every attempt 
resulted in having to reinstall WinXP. It's bad enough when drivers don't work, 
but when they leave a trail of destruction behind them as well. I think I was 
right to accept there was no way the combination of XP, Win-TV-PCI and my PC 
was going to work. There comes a point where any more time wasted is just that, 
time wasted.

I had the usual runarounds from their email help facilities with automated 
replies. Their service was so bad they sent me URLs for drivers updates etc 
that were incomplete several times me pointing it out. (large section of middle 
part of the uRLs replaced by  characters making it impossible to even guess 
the address, luckily you can get everything from their main website).

One possibility was that my card was an ancient one, going by the serial 
number. It's entirely possible there may be hardware differences making it 
incompatible with modern PCs, as I got exactly the same lockups on my son's PC 
as on mine. Yet it worked on this PC under WIn98SE, which was the only thing 
that kept me struggling as long as I did.

Makes me quite glad to have been a QLer these past 20 years. Trying to sort out 
problems like that for 20 years would have driven me mad. At least guys like 
you, Stuart, Rich, Roy and Jochen have been SO helpful in sorting out our 
problems over the years, I don't see us getting personal service like thatfrom 
the large companies!

Dilwyn Jones

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Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread David Tubbs
At 08:36 30/11/2004 +, you wrote:
Anyway, it's gone now, swapped it for something much more useful (front 
panel USB sockets and cabling so I no longer have to go round behind ot 
plug things in )from someone at work
Dilwyn Jones
For that very reason I have knocked up a couple of boxes in the past to 
have the back at the front.

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread Tony Tebby
- Aucun (Nobody?) - wrote:
Tony Tebby though designed RomDisq from day one for any size 
possibly. 
   

He once told me that the driver would work up to 64MB.
 

But was he right?
Tony
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread ZN
PS: I am really looking forward to ZN's post explaining unsuitability
issues with coldfire processors. (hah, on topic!)

It would be easy if I could post attachments - Micro APL provide a cross
compiler (68k to ColdFire) and emulation pack for CF V3 and 4 free of
charge, it's worth getting if nothing else only for the documentation which
gives lots of insight into this problem. Since I don't have that option i
am going to quote relevant parts of the documentation, so WARNING: THIS IS
ONE LONG MAIL!!!

I should also mention that it's not worth expending money om naking a QL
compatible using anthing but the most capable V4e ColdFire as the chip
prices are nearly the same and the performance vastly improved in the last
version, not to mention all the extra stuff you get on the chip itself.
Incidentally, this means that there is an emulation capability provided,
that can be used to emulate most (but not all!) instructions that are
implemented in the 68k and not in the CF series CPUs.

At QL2004 I only briefly spoke with a few people about  this, proposing
that most of the instruction set add-ons introduced by 68020, 30, 40 and 60
CPUs not be used as it greatly complicates proper emulation. Fortunately,
in the greatest proportion of all software, the CPU is treated as a very
slighty expanded and fast bog standard 68k. One job that needs to be done
is to carefully and pragmatically decide which if any extensions should be
added. Good candidates would be 32-bit multiplication and division, and
possibly floating point instructions (note: V4e ColdFires have a FPU, but
it is simpler than the original full and extended IEEE implementation in
the 68881 and 882 FPUs). Also, it should be decided which instructiuons are
not to be used at all (good candidate would be MOVEP), and which should be
deprecated and recomended for avoidance, for efficiency reasons. Sadly,
this goes against some brilliant work done by other folks, most notably
George Gwilt - but at this point, if there is a way forward for a hardware
platform (*) it is doubtfull that there is any other choice.

(*) I still strongly advocate the existance of a hardware platform. One
could consider me biased, surely - but also consider this:
SMSQ/E is a GREAT asset in a world of embedded programming, in which
developement systems are notoriously composed of vapourware. Mostly the
hardware is there, but the software mostly flat out doesn't work or is
completely unhelpful - the developers are left to their own devices to make
things work as intended. The QL community is dwindling, and with it another
great asset: knowledge of efficient embedded programming. In a world where
a control program for a LCD monitor uses up 50k of code, programmers that
know you can fit entire OSs and more into the same space are VERY hard to
find, and also very sought after - it has now come to a point where the
existance of such programming is nearly considered a myth. Selling one
embedded QL technology based product is likely to be equivalent to the
total sales of a major product in the QL market - the frst, given proper
attention, can occur several times every year, with gathering mnomentum,
the second once every several years. Money earned is not by far the most
important result of this: the addition of crytical mass of developers that
have a clear way to benefit from their work IS - it all filters back into
the QL community. IMHO, this is the way for the QL to survive, and even
possibly, thrive in a quiet, but important sort of way, doing what it is
best at: reliably solving unique problems.

Anyway, back to the ColdFire dilemma:

Here is an excerpt from MicroAPL's PortASM user's manual:

:quote:

Although the ColdFire architecture is closely related to the 680x0, there
are many simplifications to the instruction set which mean that 680x0
assembler code may require substantial modifications...
Nearly all of the differences are omissions from the 680x0 instruction set
and addressing modes. This means that (with a few important exceptions
detailed
later), a 680x0 instruction which is implemented in ColdFire behaves in
exactly the same way under the two architectures. In fact, almost all
user-level (and much supervisor-level) ColdFire code can be run unchanged
on a 68020 or later 680x0 processor. THE CONVERSE, HOWEVER, IS NOT THE
CASE.
In outline, the main omissions fall into five categories:
• Missing addressing modes
• Missing instructions
• Non-availability of word- and byte-forms of nearly all arithmetic and
logical instructions
• Many instructions act only on registers, not on memory
• Restrictions on available addressing modes for particular instructions
• Simplification of the supervisor-level programming model
In addition to these omissions, the ColdFire version 4 core includes some
new instructions which PortAsm can optionally make use of - in particular
MVS (movewith-sign-extend) and MVZ (move-with-zero-extend).

...Standard RISC processors such as the PowerPC achieve high 

Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Tue, 30 Nov 2004 at 15:54:43, Tony Tebby wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
- Aucun (Nobody?) - wrote:
Tony Tebby though designed RomDisq from day one for any size 
possibly.
He once told me that the driver would work up to 64MB.

But was he right?
Tony
(8-)#
I would love to put you to the test, but it seems unlikely we will even 
get to 16 mb (8-(#

BTW please email me your UK Midland bank details.  There have really 
been very few sales since the last time, but there is a little 
commission due.

Tony
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread Dave P


I know a bit about the romdisq and it sounds like an interesting piece of
hardware.

How does the romdisq compare to a cut-down qubide with space for one or
many CF cards? Not that there's much to 'cut down' on the already very
sparse qubide!

Dave

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread Phoebus Dokos
 Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:25:17 -0600 (CST),() Dave P  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote:


I know a bit about the romdisq and it sounds like an interesting piece of
hardware.
How does the romdisq compare to a cut-down qubide with space for one or
many CF cards? Not that there's much to 'cut down' on the already very
sparse qubide!
Dave
The QubIDE CF is a mite slower than RomDisq when reading, however the CF  
is quite faster when writing. The main advantage of the RomDisq is its  
insane reliability... it has been known to survive even when plugged the  
wrong way around (courtesy of a misdirected Aurora Rom adaptor) and it's a  
tiny piece of hardware whereas the qubide is a lot bigger... doesn't work  
with everything (well that's only partly true because the Romdisq needs  
ram expansion :-) and its software is rather unreliable... on the other  
hand it provides capacities up to 2 Gb on CF cards and even more with  
Microdrives :-) (The IBM kind of course)
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Tue, 30 Nov 2004 at 11:25:17, Dave P wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])



I know a bit about the romdisq and it sounds like an interesting piece of
hardware.

How does the romdisq compare to a cut-down qubide with space for one or
many CF cards? Not that there's much to 'cut down' on the already very
sparse qubide!
The RomDisq is a QL boot device.  I use it at shows with borrowed QLs.

It is also _very_ fast reading.  I forget the figures, but it beat
qubide.


Tony

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread Dave P


On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Tony Firshman wrote:

 The RomDisq is a QL boot device.  I use it at shows with borrowed QLs.

 It is also _very_ fast reading.  I forget the figures, but it beat
 qubide.

When reading, it's accessed just like a ROM, with extended addressing,
right?

One of the things that I love about older computers, especially anything
Sinclair-related, was the stunning hardware hackery to get things to work,
and the amazing use of code to render short-comings no-longer-short!

It also shows the importance of an expansion system. Any future
QL-hardware will need an expansion system.

This raises the question of what interesting things people have done with
their Qx0 ISA slots.

Dave


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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread Dave P


On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, gwicks wrote:

 Don't forget there are some organisations that forbid committee members from
 expressing personal opinions in public. Quanta is fortunately not one of
 them, as you have well seen from my ouput over the last month, but I think
 it has the right to expect committee members to make it clear when they are
 writing individually.

Organizations cannot _formally_ do this. If you are posting from your own
email address, it is your opinion. If the email address is provided by
Quanta, they have every right to limit your responses.  Personal
addresses, they have no right to do so.

What happens is that informal pressure is applied, or the rule is a
request that is unlawfully worded as an order.

Dave

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-30 Thread Phoebus Dokos
 Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:20:05 +,() Tony Firshman  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote:

snip
It also shows the importance of an expansion system. Any future
QL-hardware will need an expansion system.
This raises the question of what interesting things people have done  
with
their Qx0 ISA slots.
Someone at the Byfleet show asked for an ISA to USB converter (8-)#
There is actually one (British made too)

In fact the more likely approach would be to use a pcmicia card with a
pcmcia USB card.
There's also an ISA to PCMCIA :-)
... now who was it who was going to write the drivers (8-)#

Tony (Tebby) :-)
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread P Witte
Dilwyn Jones writes:


 It was a drivers issue. Hauppauge's Win-TV-PCI drivers for XP actually
 knacker other XP drivers (and I tried all driver versions for XP from
 3.35 to 3.43beta). Hence the problems every other bit of hardware was
 having. Bin the Win-TV card (which worked fine on this machine under
 WIn98SE) and reinstall from scratch after fdisk, format and reformat


I found the Haupauge TV products to be quite hopless. Ive got two and will
never buy another from them until Im reliably informed  that theyve got
their house in order.


  Guess its not under warranty still !!
 Yes, or at least it was until I opened the case seal to insert the TV
 card.

Ive successfully argued that PCs are by definition user-upgradable. Dont
let yourself be bullied!

  Guess you should have gone back to the QL !!
 QL. And a small portable TV. Best suggestion so far!

Watch TV on a QL? Now theres a great project. Lets just get this other stuff
out of the way first.. ;)


Per

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Sun, 28 Nov 2004 at 19:52:59, P Witte wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])

Dilwyn Jones writes:


 It was a drivers issue. Hauppauge's Win-TV-PCI drivers for XP actually
 knacker other XP drivers (and I tried all driver versions for XP from
 3.35 to 3.43beta). Hence the problems every other bit of hardware was
 having. Bin the Win-TV card (which worked fine on this machine under
 WIn98SE) and reinstall from scratch after fdisk, format and reformat


I found the Haupauge TV products to be quite hopless. Ive got two and will
never buy another from them until Im reliably informed  that theyve got
their house in order.
I use them for Worldnews - all under XP.

We have had a DVB-s satellite cards running for over two years.
They also have two HP PVR cards which have been running for a year or
so.
These all save video 24hrs, and have given no problem.

Ben uses a HP Nexus terrestrial satellite card in a Windows media
edition PC with no problem.

The only issue I had was that the supplied CD were no use.
They all needed drivers (and operating software) from their web site.

Speak to their UK technical help line.   One gets through _always_ to a
person who knows the systems.  No remote call centre there.

Tony
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Mon, 29 Nov 2004 at 10:20:43, John Gilpin wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])


- Original Message -
From: Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

printer issue (I think)
I think this question was discussed at Byfleet and hope that it will be
added to the questionnaire. Will this be too late for those who have already
filled one in?

John Gilpin.(individual)
What question would you like added?
Sorry, but I haven't been following this thread, and am too busy today
to think of finding and reading (8-)#

It is probably too late now though.  We have had probably 80 replies,
and any new questions need emailing to all those who have already
replied.

What I will probably do is save up additional questions and then email
everyone automatically afterwards, asking them to fill in a
supplementary form.  This info can then be appended to the database.

Thanks are due to John Southern.  All paper forms he receives he is
entering manually on the on-line form.

Tony
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread John Gilpin

- Original Message - 
From: Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...


 On  Mon, 29 Nov 2004 at 10:20:43, John Gilpin wrote:
 (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])

 
 - Original Message -
 From: Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 11:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
 
 printer issue (I think)
 I think this question was discussed at Byfleet and hope that it will be
 added to the questionnaire. Will this be too late for those who have
already
 filled one in?
 
 John Gilpin.(individual)
 What question would you like added?
 Sorry, but I haven't been following this thread, and am too busy today
 to think of finding and reading (8-)#

Something to the effect:If you have been a Quanta member and have resigned,
please indicate why you left

John Gilpin (individual)

 It is probably too late now though.  We have had probably 80 replies,
 and any new questions need emailing to all those who have already
 replied.

 What I will probably do is save up additional questions and then email
 everyone automatically afterwards, asking them to fill in a
 supplementary form.  This info can then be appended to the database.

Good idea - JG

 Thanks are due to John Southern.  All paper forms he receives he is
 entering manually on the on-line form.

John S. seems very excited about the results so far - JG

 Tony
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Mon, 29 Nov 2004 at 13:22:41, John Gilpin wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])


 - Original Message -
 From: Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 11:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
 
 printer issue (I think)
 I think this question was discussed at Byfleet and hope that it will be
 added to the questionnaire. Will this be too late for those who have
already
 filled one in?
 
 John Gilpin.(individual)
 What question would you like added?
 Sorry, but I haven't been following this thread, and am too busy today
 to think of finding and reading (8-)#

Something to the effect:If you have been a Quanta member and have resigned,
please indicate why you left
Ah that one.  I was programming it before I left for the show, de-bugged
at the show, and put it on line this morning!

Sorry - I thought you were talking about printers.

Tony

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread ZN


*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

Dilwyn Jones wrote:

 I use a ROMDisq in this situation, though a new 128MB ROMDisq would
 solve the problem.
 Technically I could make a 16mb RomDisq with the existing hardware.
 Unfortunately the minimum chip buy is about UKP5,000, so not on.

This all sounds a bit silly when you consider that a cheap compact
flash card and reader for the PC costs about £12.
...CF crad readers which work with Qubide do exist

In fact, the Flash chip market is swamped by huge overdemands - right now
it has become even more difficult getting small amounts of chips because
orders of several tens of thousands are not uncommon. In the case of flash
ROM used in USB keys and CF cards etc (which are of different type but
actually more suited for something like romDisq - unfortunately they were
in their infancy when romDisq was designed), it is nearly impossible to get
samples - the best wai is to find a cheap flash key and take it appart -
and for small runs, the cheapest too. I have recently corresponded with a
Samsung sales representative and they told me that I could get my parts in
a year or so (a few hundred) unless i ordered several hundred thousand in
which case they would bump down another large customer on the waiting list!
The chips in question are 1Gbit capacity (128M bytes), the most common chip
used in USB flash storage. In the end I got my sample by dissasembling a
brand new USB flash, one of the older types which was large, easy to
dissasemble and quite cheap too ;-)

That being said, it seems that I will be getting a few samples of the new
16Mbyte (128Mbit) regular flash, which are to be used in the small porta-QL
design I talked about at QL2004. These are selectable byte/word
organisation devices, alas not directly usable on romDisq...

Nasta

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread ZN
On 25/11/04 at 21:07 Dave P wrote:

 The QL uses such minimal power that unless we are using Coldfire this
 can be ignored.

Not so. On the typical PC laptop motherboard is a charge control circuit
to regulate the current to the battery, and power monitoring to select
whether the battery is charged, used, or ignored.

Actually, the QL uses quite a lot of power by today's standards for low
power devices, but definitely negligible compared to today's laptops. Using
a Coldfire CPU (which has it's own problems I may find time to discuss in
another email), things can only get better - the most power-hungry Coldfire
uses only about 2W of power. To give you some perspective, it could run for
approximately an hour and a half on an average mobile phone Li-ion battery.

hard to disagree this point) then what is really in demand is an embedded
QL-compatible platform that can be a desktop or laptop board, or used for
control/monitoring functions, etc. It would need to be a board of two
halves, logically speaking. A standard processing, OS, memory and required
interfaces half and a custom interfaces half (if that counts as half).
Ironically, this is more-or-less what Nasta designed as the Aurora II.

Heh... but sometimes I really hate being right about some things ;-)
As it happens, my current employer needs precisely such a device, though
not as powerful computing-wise as the combo of GoldFire and Aurora II. QL
compatibility is actually one of the goals - time and time again, I have
demonstrated that it is a very valuable tool, usually by writing small
snippets of Sbasic on QPC2 to develop control algorithms for some of his
hardware (and in this case I do mean hardware, as in motors, magnets and
the like).
To this end I now have on my table 10 68SZ328 fully 68k compatible 'systems
on a chip' - commonly known as the last DragonBall CPU, used in Palm's last
series of 68k based palm-pilots. This chip is still in production, and
aside for not being extremely fast (it's a 66MHz 68000), it fits the bill
quite nicely. The next project we are alrerady looking at is something
similar using the new V4e Coldfires. The 68SZ328 'QL' will be a small
4-layer board slightly wider than the Aurora (say, the size of the printed
Quanta mag). 16M of Flash (Replaced by 32M when larger chips become
available) and 64M of RAM will come as standard. Also a VGA or TFT LCD
interface, CF and MMC memory card slots, serial ports, and quite possibly
USB and/or Ethernet. The intention is to make these available almost at
cost to the QL community in exchange for porting SMSQ/E etc. First
prototypes will probably also have a QL compatible expansion port, and all
can be affixed to a small VGA resolution (640 x 480) TFT LCD.

My only discomfort over Nasta's design is that he is extremely concerned
about efficiency of space. Therefore, he's crammed an awful lot into a
very small 6-layer PCB.

Actually, it's 4 layer ;-)
6 Layer is not that much more expensive though - 15 to 20% has been quoted
to me by the manufacturer. The only problem with said manufacturer is that
it's the next country over, now part of the EU, which makes it necessary to
go through rather complex customs procedures, but as my employer is looking
at moving to multilayer boards anyway, it may be possible to do a 'where 4
can fit, the 5th can usually be easily shoed in' thing.

Nasta is just too efficient for his own good ;)

Looking back, I'm not really that efficient at all ;-( but I hope I will
improve...

BTW with recent experience in doing 2 layer boards running CPUs and RAM at
100MHz, I am convinced more than ever that ANYTHING can be fitted into 4
layers ;-)
Oh, and one more thing - the same recent experiences have shown again that
autorouters are still abysmal at doing any sort of efficient PCB design. At
least the ones I can afford... Doing the routing manually, which took about
a week, admittedly, I have managed to squeeze one 160x100mm 4-layer board
and one 40x100mm 2 layer board (both autorouted) onto a single 120 x 70mm
2-layer board, almost 3x less area and about 7x lower cost of manufacture.

Nasta

PS, special note to TF: Aurora II and GF are routed with 8.333mil wide
tracks and 8.333mil spacing - so not quite to romDisq standards but then,
both sides are completely covered by components ;-)

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread ZN
On 25/11/04 at 13:18 Dave P wrote:

Most elements of Nasta's Aurora II design are tried and tested, but the
ethernet part is completely new. I would be inclined to suggest a short
run of prototype ethernet only QL-standard expansion cards to go to
developers. Once the hardware exists, it becomes an option to form a
working group to produce drivers and a friendly API.

We're looking at a few hundred pounds for the hardware, and
hundreds-thousands of hours for the drivers...

Dave

Actually, the Ethernet part is integrated onto Qubide II, named EtherIDE.
The IDE part is a slightly expanded and completely updated Qubide, and the
Ethernet part is actually only a very small area on that borad - it was
integrated literally because there was left-over space and cost of putting
it over there equals cost of Ethernet chip plus magnetics plus connector.

Because of this, it is easily 'transportable' onto a different project or
on a stand-alone board. It is certainly possible to produce such board in
small quantity and relatively cheaply (I am in fact looking into it right
now). However, this supposes several things about the system in which it is
to be used:

1) SGC
2) Aurora
3) Backplane

And also, it relies on usage of the external interrupt pin (similar to
superHermes). There are only a few people that would know how to use this,
Lau Reeves foremost ;-)
The hardware is 10BaseT, so 10 Mbit, fortunately, the manufacturer also
makes a software compatible 100Mbit chip.

One more thing connected with EtherIDE - it would actually be more
straightforward to integrate a USB interface onto the Qubide II instead of
Ethernet. Some time ago a Philips USB chip was discussed on this list. This
uses a 16-bit data bus, and the only place this is currently available on a
QL is on the IDE connector of a Qubide. The local Philips distributor has
promised a few samples of this by the end of the year...

N.

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Mon, 29 Nov 2004 at 18:08:43, ZN wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])



PS, special note to TF: Aurora II and GF are routed with 8.333mil wide
tracks and 8.333mil spacing - so not quite to romDisq standards but then,
both sides are completely covered by components ;-)
(8-)#

I didn't actually design to 3mil, only 5mil I think, but the capability
is there.

Welcome back to the list - we have missed you.

Sounds like you have some really interesting projects on the table.

I saw your comments about flash chips.
My experience was _exactly_ the same.
I designed RomDisq for the 4 mbyte chips.  At  the time the chip did not
exist, and the relevant address line was not allocated.  In A17 plus
sequence, there _was_ a spare pin in the logical spot, but no-one
(manufacturer especially) would commit.
I used that pin for the address line and so RomDisq was ready before
even the specs were released.

Unfortunately when it was manufactured, I could not get samples, and
yes, they demanded a massive order.  The cost of the chips alone was
going to be more than the entire RomDisq turnover to date.
 and they couldn't quote a delivery date
 and they would cost more than twice the 2mbyte chip.

I haven't looked in to it recently, but I think there are not enough
'real' QL or Aurora owners to justify.  I would love to be proved wrong,
but I had very little response the first time I told this story.

I haven't even _asked_ Stuart Honeyball if he can re-code the logic
chip.  I suspect he will not have his documentation (much like SGC).
Tony Tebby though designed RomDisq from day one for any size possibly.
Certainly 16 mbyte would work.
The 4 mbyte RomDisq was an afterthought.  Even a 6mb would work.  He
simply stops formatting when he cannot find any more blocks.

Tony


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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread - Aucun -

 Tony Tebby though designed RomDisq from day one for any size 
 possibly. 

He once told me that the driver would work up to 64MB.

Arnould


WebMail / Magic OnLine
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread Mike MacNamara
Hmm.
Do we fill in another form, or just 1 question, or do nothing
mike
- Original Message - 
From: Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...


On  Sat, 27 Nov 2004 at 23:28:03, Jeremy Taffel wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])

Jeremy Taffel wrote:

I'd be interested to know what the final  split is  in Tony's/Quanta's 
survey between more traditional hardware and the emulators. I haven't 
filled it in yet myself - I started, but then got frustrated and gave 
up - as an ex-Quanta member I feel that I should be able to fill in the 
Quanta related questions. Isn't anyone interested in why people leave, 
and what could be done to get them to rejoin?
I have added that question to the questionnaire.
I started trying to work out the logic of leaving in the other Quanta 
questions and it all got too complicated!

Please do fill in the form.  It is now very much not just a Quanta 
questionnaire.

Tony
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread P Witte
John Gilpin (individual) writes:


 PS. Just to explain this signature format: It was agreed at the Quanta
 Committee meeting at Byfleet yesterday that no one member of that
committee
 should pass an opinion and leave it such that it could be taken to be an
 opinion of the Quanta Committee. In future all comments sent to this or
 other forums should indicate that they are comments expressed by an
 individual and should not be taken as being from Quanta, its committee or
 its membership unless specifically indicated that it is sent with
authority
 from those bodies.

Wouldnt it be better if the default mode was (individual) ? We're all
(individual)s on this list. If you were making some Committe announcement or
writing in your official capacity you could use (QUANTA) to make that clear.

Per
(Per)

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread Dave P


On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, P Witte wrote:

 Wouldnt it be better if the default mode was (individual) ? We're all
 (individual)s on this list. If you were making some Committe announcement or
 writing in your official capacity you could use (QUANTA) to make that clear.

Dear (*)Sir ( )Madam

Your ( )email (*)post ( )spam was ( )not at all (*)almost as interesting
as the (*)original post ( )last spam.

( )Please refrain from such posts in future.
( )What where you thinking?
(*)This meets the requirement that civilian posts not be as funny
   as Quanta Governmental Rulings
( )__insert remark here__

Dave

PS: I am really looking forward to ZN's post explaining unsuitability
issues with coldfire processors. (hah, on topic!)

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-29 Thread Mike MacNamara
Tnx
- Original Message - 
From: Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...


On  Mon, 29 Nov 2004 at 19:48:50, Mike MacNamara wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Hmm.
Do we fill in another form, or just 1 question, or do nothing
There will be a supplementary form asking the additional questions.
Sorry - I thought I had said that in an earlier post.
Tony
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-28 Thread Dilwyn Jones
  Unfortunately, getting it to work with some machine combinations
would
  take longer than copying Rich's pile of floppy disks.

 :-)))
Never quite known anything like Sernet. Once you get it to work it
works brilliantly. Getting past the serial connections stage is a
nightmare other than between two PCs, where a standard PC cable works
fine with the 9 and 25 pin D sockets.

I still say there must be a market for QL-PC sernet compatible cables
and how to wire up the MinisQL port leads that Ron Dunnett supplied.
Never once managed to get the serial link from MinisQL working to
anything I don't think.

 I used it between an atari and a PC without many problems.
Yes, PC Atari and Q60 seem to be the problem free zone as far as
Sernet is concerned.

One day, when I have time, I'm going to get the QL and MinisQL serial
ports sorted out. Somewhat frustrating to have a Minis-QL with a
network incompatible with the PC with a network on the same desktop
not speaking to each other (OK, so some would say the Aurora is only
being sensible!)

The Minis-QL serial port connectors are simple IDC to 9-pin D but I
haven't been able to get the pinouts sussed, once past that stage it
should be fairly simple top sernet them.

 Better than a PC crashing, though, eh?
I expect a PC to crash. Worries me when it doesn't.

:-)

(Says he one reinstall later, with Win-TV card in the bin and suddenly
the PC is working without problems so far after reinstalling the
damaged Windows from CD, let's see how long it lasts this time!).
--
Dilwyn Jones



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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-28 Thread Dilwyn Jones
Now that comment shows you to be a bit far removed from the average
user. Serial ports might be easy to you, so you haven't had to deal
with the regular flow of 'sernet doesn't work' messages. It's taken me
this long to (fail) to get sernet working from PC or Aurora to
anything, yet it works just fine between PCs for me (and Ataris and
Q60s by all acounts).

The Aurora in my MinisQL has a 9 pin D connector so you'd expect it to
work with a PC cable, but it doesn't! And the IDC connectors can go on
the Aurora either way, there is no locking mechanism to make sure it's
in right way round

Sorry, but anyone who thinks serials are easy is living on a different
planet to the average user.

Dilwyn

 Serial communication really isn't.

 Tony

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-28 Thread Dilwyn Jones
 USB to (any kind of) networking is a bad solution at best...
especially if
 your USB/NIC are USB 1.1 compatible... you WILL experience at best
hiccups
 or temporary lock-ups and that's not the machine's fault (nor
Windows'
 impressively :-)
 
On this machine, XP allowed USB peripherals to work with nothing other
than XP drivers (printer and Mobile Disk memory sticks), which I
expected, but an error 'no driver' is shown for one of the onboard
components for which you have to install a driver from the motherboard
CD supplied. I don't know what it does, but it did need a driver. And
even though the Mobile Disks and USB on my PC are both USB2.0 it still
gets the warning message 'high speed device plugged into
non-high-speed USB hub'.

Likewise, this modem needs an XP driver from the supplied CD.

Likewise, the TV tuner card needs XP-specific drivers

Likewise, the printer needs XP specific drivers (in fact the Win2000
ones work as there's not yet XP drivers for it).

Likewise, the scanner needs XP-specific drivers, except Primax don't
do XP drivers and tell people to use their NT or Win2000 drivers
instead.

Rich is right: back to a QL!

Incidentally, can anyone tell me if my line wrap at 70 characetrs is
working now? It isn't on-screen as I type this, but you never know
what it might be until it reaches the modem!

Also, am I sending plain text (it's set to plain text but I can't
tell!)
--
Dilwyn Jones


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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-28 Thread Marcel Kilgus
Dilwyn Jones wrote:
 What exactly is the registry?

The mother of all INI files. Actually it's a database which stores all
configuration information.

Marcel

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-28 Thread Marcel Kilgus
Dilwyn Jones wrote:
 Incidentally, can anyone tell me if my line wrap at 70 characetrs is
 working now?

Don't bother, Outlook Express is broken in this respect and has always
been. Only solution is to use a real email program.

Marcel

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-28 Thread Tarquin Mills
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tony Firshman wrote:
 On  Sat, 27 Nov 2004 at 13:28:02, Dilwyn Jones wrote:
 (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
 
  I use a ROMDisq in this situation, though a new 128MB ROMDisq would
  solve the problem.
  (8-)#
 
  Technically I could make a 16mb RomDisq with the existing hardware.
 
  Unfortunately the minimum chip buy is about UKP5,000, so not on.
 
  Tony
 This all sounds a bit silly when you consider that a cheap compact
 flash card and reader for the PC costs about £12. I bought a
 smartmedia card and jenreader (USB) for about that much for my son
 recently. OK, it's USB, but CF crad readers which work with Qubide
 do exist, better (well, more cost effective I should say) to go down
 that sort of route rather than invest in large memory costly romdisqs
 which not many might buy.
 The Romdisq chips of any size are not expensive - I would just have to
 buy in vast quantities!  They come in racks and are not sold
 individually.
 Worse than that, the 4mbyte chip is more than twice the 2mbyte chip!

I take it that that is not the AM29F032B -90FC and AM29F032B -90EC?

-- 
   Tarquin Mills

ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society)
http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-28 Thread David Tubbs
At 16:24 28/11/2004 +, you wrote:
It was a drivers issue. Hauppauge's Win-TV-PCI drivers for XP actually
knacker other XP drivers (and I tried all driver versions for XP from
3.35 to 3.43beta). Hence the problems every other bit of hardware was
having. Bin the Win-TV card (which worked fine on this machine under
WIn98SE)
I have the Ati all in wonder 128, after upping to XP new driver from Ati 
and now it even does TIVO.

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-28 Thread David Tubbs
At 17:02 28/11/2004 +, you wrote:
What exactly is the registry? Although I've had to change one or two
settings, it's pretty gibberish to me. Gives me the impression of
being something akin to what we would call a BOOT program or config
block.
If you have to ask you really don't want to know - it is hell in there.
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-28 Thread David Tubbs
At 17:00 28/11/2004 +, you wrote:
Rich is right: back to a QL!
No IV
No Scanner
No mobile disks
No USB
and printer problems  as a bonus !
Incidentally, can anyone tell me if my line wrap at 70 characetrs is
working now? It isn't on-screen as I type this, but you never know
what it might be until it reaches the modem!
Or beyond - can always email to yourself.
And as someone else remarked it gets buggered if the recipient has a narrow 
window.

It is the original complainant who should set his prog to WRAP
Also, am I sending plain text (it's set to plain text but I can't
tell!)
As a QLer why would you have your prog set to fancy ?

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-28 Thread Dilwyn Jones
   I think that is quite proper, the CD is working properly, just
the
 SETUP is
   intended to run in Windows. There is no external DOS with XP.
 I created a DOS boot disk from XP to test that. Sure enough, even
 booting into that DOS disk, the XP CD still would not start, it
says
 something about not running in DOS.

 The XP GD is intended to be the boot device.
I'm not sure, but I think Win XP can only be installed by booting into
the CD.

 When you are not doing something as fundamental  as removing  a
major
 hardware component you will be better off to use XP's restore
feature.
Normally yes. The Win-TV drivers knackered this too.

   A W98 boot disk offers CD operation as a choice, never tried the
XP one.
It's a very basic DOS bootup disk, not really like the Win98 concept.

There's no DOS prompt as such in Win XP as you say. You have to run
CMD.EXE I thinkit's called to issue DOS style commands. Actually,
quite useful as you can get a printed list of files similar to a DIR
command with DIR C:\*.* PRN or similar, which amazingly Windoze
Exploder can't do. The things we take for granted on a QL eh? DIR
\PAR,FLP1_ for example.

--
Dilwyn Jones


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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-28 Thread Dilwyn Jones
Thanks Malcolm. There's something wrong with how it displays on my
machine in OE, but as long as I'm sending correctly, I'll sort my end
out later. I've set it to use Courier for both compose and read, but
it's using Arial non-proportional for both. For plain text, I'd prefer
a fixed pitch font, but I'll get there.

Dilwyn Jones

 Incidentally, can anyone tell me if my line wrap at 70 characetrs
is
 working now? It isn't on-screen as I type this, but you never know
 what it might be until it reaches the modem!
 
 Also, am I sending plain text (it's set to plain text but I can't
 tell!)

 It is fine now ... :-)

 --
 Malcolm Cadman


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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Dilwyn Jones
SERNET is great when you get it to work.

Unfortunately, getting it to work with some machine combinations would
take longer than copying Rich's pile of floppy disks.

I never managed to get it to work between my MinisQL and PC or between
QL and anything else. Most likely cabling issues. It works fine
between two PCs with the usual serial leads, but most people are put
off because they can't get it to work out of the box.

Usual on-going QL problems which never get fully solved.

--
Dilwyn Jones
- Original Message -
From: Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...


 On 26 Nov 2004 at 13:30, Rich Mellor wrote:

  No idea - I never owned it alas - guess a serial lead was supplied
with
  the package

 In that case, use sernet to transfer the files
 It wouldn't be slower than the slaving prog...

 Wolfgang
 
 www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Wolfgang Lenerz
On 27 Nov 2004 at 13:43, Dilwyn Jones wrote:

 SERNET is great when you get it to work.
 
 Unfortunately, getting it to work with some machine combinations would
 take longer than copying Rich's pile of floppy disks.

:-)))

 I never managed to get it to work between my MinisQL and PC or between
 QL and anything else. Most likely cabling issues. It works fine
 between two PCs with the usual serial leads, but most people are put
 off because they can't get it to work out of the box.

I used it between an atari and a PC without many problems.
 
 Usual on-going QL problems which never get fully solved.
Yup.
Better than a PC crashing, though, eh?



Wolfgang

www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Rich Mellor

Windows XP is so well behaved at work, I just can't understand why I
get all this hassle with everything that isn't made by Micro$oft.
Have you considered that it may actually be a hardware problem - memory or 
the hard drive seem the most likely candidates - XP is a lot more hungry 
of both than 98SE...  Could also be the processor - if processor is 
faulty, then it won't be formatting the hard drive properly

BTW - I recently had to reformat and reinstall my PC - found that a format 
from DOS did not actually resolve the problems and once I reinstalled 
everything, system was still having the same problems.

I therefore removed the partition and recreated it before reformmating - 
reinstallation was fine after that...

Guess its not under warranty still !!
Guess you should have gone back to the QL !!
--
Rich Mellor
RWAP Services
26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ
http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Sat, 27 Nov 2004 at 13:28:02, Dilwyn Jones wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])

 I use a ROMDisq in this situation, though a new 128MB ROMDisq would
 solve the problem.
 (8-)#

 Technically I could make a 16mb RomDisq with the existing hardware.

 Unfortunately the minimum chip buy is about UKP5,000, so not on.

 Tony
This all sounds a bit silly when you consider that a cheap compact
flash card and reader for the PC costs about £12. I bought a
smartmedia card and jenreader (USB) for about that much for my son
recently. OK, it's USB, but CF crad readers which work with Qubide
do exist, better (well, more cost effective I should say) to go down
that sort of route rather than invest in large memory costly romdisqs
which not many might buy.
The Romdisq chips of any size are not expensive - I would just have to
buy in vast quantities!  They come in racks and are not sold
individually.
Worse than that, the 4mbyte chip is more than twice the 2mbyte chip!

Tony

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Sat, 27 Nov 2004 at 13:49:26, Dilwyn Jones wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])

Yes, but as standard QLs can't have split tx and rx devices (STX and
SRX I think SMSQ/E calls them) you would need something like Hans
Peter Recktenwald's SIMSER extensions for standard QDOS QLs to be able
to cope.

The real challenge with a QL is understanding the serial port
cablings, since ser1 and ser2 are not wired the same way. And remember
that sernet has to be configured right too.
The challenge of serial leads was solved over a decade ago (8-)#
Of course to work fast reliably (ie above 4800 bps) it needs Hermes or
superHermes.

(Don't know why I'm getting involved with this, getting involved in
queries regarding Sernet or Printing or Pointer Environment has always
been never ending, hence why I got rid of my DJC phone number to get
some peace and quiet in the evenings).
Indeed.  You re-solved that a couple of years ago in this very list.

This is a problem that never seems to go away.

Tony

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Sat, 27 Nov 2004 at 15:38:53, Rich Mellor wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])


 Windows XP is so well behaved at work, I just can't understand why I
 get all this hassle with everything that isn't made by Micro$oft.

Have you considered that it may actually be a hardware problem - memory
or the hard drive seem the most likely candidates - XP is a lot more
hungry of both than 98SE...  Could also be the processor - if processor
is faulty, then it won't be formatting the hard drive properly
I have the same thoughts - or even a corrupted driver.

My experience of XP with _all_ the installations I have done (running to
maybe 20 of mine and worldnews machines) is that I have had _no_
problems.
... well other than one machine after SP2.

On most installations, I have not had to use extra drivers at all.

It simply works.
The first time I installed XP, I thought something had gone worng, as XP
arrived with the desktop without once even mentioning drivers - but
_everything_ worked fine.


BTW - I recently had to reformat and reinstall my PC - found that a
format from DOS did not actually resolve the problems and once I
reinstalled everything, system was still having the same problems.

I therefore removed the partition and recreated it before reformmating
- reinstallation was fine after that...
Yes - a completely clean install is -always- the best way.
It is also a good opportunity to clean the registry, like a de-coke.

Tony
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Malcolm Cadman
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], James 
Hunkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

Malcolm,
As an alternative on your side can't you set your email program to wrap 
the lines for you?  Both my email programs do this automatically and 
all the emails that I have received from this list are fitted 
automatically to my window width which is great!  If someone forces 
hard stops in a line as you suggest, then when the reader gets it and 
if his window doesn't match the width, he ends up getting some short 
cutoff lines which are a bit annoying :)
Yes, I could do that ... yet the guide for newsgroups is 70 characters, 
which most people have set.

So, generally there is rarely a problem.
--
Malcolm Cadman
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Malcolm Cadman
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dilwyn Jones 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

This PC is set to 70 characters line width in Outlook Express. Since
moving to XP the setting seems to get ignored.
The ones I send from work (usually daytime times on them) are sent
from Tesco Webmail where you have no control whatsoever over them.
Stuck whichever way I look at it.
OK ... don't worry about it :-) ... I just thought I would mention it in 
case you hadn't noticed it yourself.

Seem to be in a loop of having to do repair reinstallations of Windows
on this PC at home every 2 days or so and getting TOTALLY pd off
with it. I seem to get more done in lunchbreak at work than I do at
home thanks to this bloody PC.
QL Today's next issue is at an almost total halt because of it (apart
from what Jochen is doing).
Good job I didn't get very far with Rich's SER/PAR to PFF program
because the QXL.WIN was the latest casualty last night, with the most
recent backup being earlier this week.
Just why oh why do PCs have to be so unreliable?
I guess that is why there is life left in alternative systems ...
--
Malcolm Cadman
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Jeremy Taffel
My experiences with XP are mixed. Normally I have no problems 
whatsoever. However  I have encountered one  AMD  Athlon powered machine 
from Time  which is guaranteed to have a fit any time  any new USB 
device is attached and  sometimes  throws a fit when new software  (eg 
open office)  are installed. One item ( USB wireless network device) 
which I have had working fine on several other machines refused point 
blank to install properly. its difficult to know if its a hardware fault 
or incompabilities between various chipsets.

Several years ago I had similar problems to those described on a PII 
running 98, and found myself re-installing every few weeks. eventually I 
discovered that reducing bus speed etc to the minimum supported by  the 
mobo, all the problems disappeared. I sent it back, and after 12 weeks  
diagnostics !? the supplier had to admit that it was  a hardware fault 
on the Mobo.  I think that the design of the board was marginal on RFI, 
and I was unlucky; the noise when under heavy load was sufficient to get 
the occasional  data corruption.

Jeremy
Tony Firshman wrote:
On  Sat, 27 Nov 2004 at 15:38:53, Rich Mellor wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
 

Windows XP is so well behaved at work, I just can't understand why I
get all this hassle with everything that isn't made by Micro$oft.
 

Have you considered that it may actually be a hardware problem - memory
or the hard drive seem the most likely candidates - XP is a lot more
hungry of both than 98SE...  Could also be the processor - if processor
is faulty, then it won't be formatting the hard drive properly
   

I have the same thoughts - or even a corrupted driver.
My experience of XP with _all_ the installations I have done (running to
maybe 20 of mine and worldnews machines) is that I have had _no_
problems.
... well other than one machine after SP2.
On most installations, I have not had to use extra drivers at all.
It simply works.
The first time I installed XP, I thought something had gone worng, as XP
arrived with the desktop without once even mentioning drivers - but
_everything_ worked fine.
 

BTW - I recently had to reformat and reinstall my PC - found that a
format from DOS did not actually resolve the problems and once I
reinstalled everything, system was still having the same problems.
I therefore removed the partition and recreated it before reformmating
- reinstallation was fine after that...
   

Yes - a completely clean install is -always- the best way.
It is also a good opportunity to clean the registry, like a de-coke.
Tony
 

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Phoebus Dokos
 Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:14:26 +,() Jeremy Taffel  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote:

My experiences with XP are mixed. Normally I have no problems  
whatsoever. However  I have encountered one  AMD  Athlon powered machine  
from Time  which is guaranteed to have a fit any time  any new USB  
device is attached and  sometimes  throws a fit when new software  (eg  
open office)  are installed. One item ( USB wireless network device)  
which I have had working fine on several other machines refused point  
blank to install properly. its difficult to know if its a hardware fault  
or incompabilities between various chipsets.
USB to (any kind of) networking is a bad solution at best... especially if  
your USB/NIC are USB 1.1 compatible... you WILL experience at best hiccups  
or temporary lock-ups and that's not the machine's fault (nor Windows'  
impressively :-)
Several years ago I had similar problems to those described on a PII  
running 98, and found myself re-installing every few weeks. eventually I  
discovered that reducing bus speed etc to the minimum supported by  the  
mobo, all the problems disappeared. I sent it back, and after 12 weeks   
diagnostics !? the supplier had to admit that it was  a hardware fault  
on the Mobo.  I think that the design of the board was marginal on RFI,  
and I was unlucky; the noise when under heavy load was sufficient to get  
the occasional  data corruption.

Sounds more like memory failure (Most of the early memory wouldn't work  
properly at marginal speeds).. except if it were a Asustek (Asus). Some of  
their PII mainboards although pricey were notoriously misdesigned

Phoebus
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread P Witte

Tony Firshman writes:

 It is also a good opportunity to clean the registry, like a de-coke.

Sounds painful, ie de-cokeing and cleaning the registry.

Per

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread David Tubbs
At 14:05 27/11/2004 +, you wrote:
During my recent XPriences I had to set my PC to boot
up
 from CD, as the CD would not install from DOS.
I think that is quite proper, the CD is working properly, just the SETUP is 
intended to run in Windows. There is no external DOS with XP.

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Sat, 27 Nov 2004 at 19:17:47, P Witte wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])


Tony Firshman writes:

 It is also a good opportunity to clean the registry, like a de-coke.

Sounds painful, ie de-cokeing and cleaning the registry.
de-coking is cleaning a car cylinder head of carbon.

Tony
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Phoebus Dokos
 Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:02:37 +,() Tony Firshman  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote:

On  Sat, 27 Nov 2004 at 19:17:47, P Witte wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Tony Firshman writes:
It is also a good opportunity to clean the registry, like a de-coke.
Sounds painful, ie de-cokeing and cleaning the registry.
de-coking is cleaning a car cylinder head of carbon.
Unless you have Bill's Saab which you then run the risk of it not running  
at all once cleaned :-D
Of course as it is known Bill's Saab runs on fuel with TF (Tony Firshman)  
octane booster (manufactured with spit, duct-tape and nasty looks towards  
the engine - That'll teach you to stop working on me :-))

Phoebus
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Jeremy Taffel
Phoebus Dokos wrote:
USB to (any kind of) networking is a bad solution at best... 
especially if  your USB/NIC are USB 1.1 compatible... you WILL 
experience at best hiccups  or temporary lock-ups and that's not the 
machine's fault (nor Windows'  impressively :-)
That was not the problem.
This was a officeconnect usb wireless networking interface which I have 
had working fine in 2 other XP machines, one win 98se and one win ME. On 
the one XP machine only, it went part way through the installation 
process and bombed then came up with an error message - repeatedly. That 
same machine took 5 attempts to install a USB scanner, 3 or 4 to install 
an Epson printer on USB and dozens of attempts to install a USB camera. 
Eventually, after much perseverence, and many periods when the machine 
wouldn't even boot, I got all the items to install properly, (except for 
the network interface)  but I can't say that anything was done 
differently the time the installation was successful.

I have two PCs permanently networked; one using a standard 10/100 
ethernet card, the other using an SMC USB to ethernet adapter. Both  are 
dual boot  win98 and linux and the network works perfectly  with any mix 
between the two operating systems. 

Sounds more like memory failure (Most of the early memory wouldn't 
work  properly at marginal speeds).. except if it were a Asustek 
(Asus). Some of  their PII mainboards although pricey were notoriously 
misdesigned.
No, it was tested with other memory - with the same problem. I'm not 
talking about marginal speeds; but running a 100MHz bus at 75MHz, on 
memory that should have been good for 133MHz. The change of motherboard 
did the trick. It wasn't Asustek, I think it was PCPartner. The 
replacement mobo (Pcchips)  has never given any problems and that PC is  
still using the original memory.

Jeremy
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread Jeremy Taffel

Jeremy Taffel wrote:
My experiences with XP are mixed. Normally I have no problems 
whatsoever...
All I was trying to say is that when it comes to PCs, the hardware is so 
variable that I really don't think you read across OS experiences from 
one to another. My most stable machine runs windows 95! I wouldn't claim 
though that win95 is more stable than 98 or XP, just that it suits that 
particular setup.  I have one windows98 machine which is mainly very 
reliable, and another (with more memory) which crashes through memory 
leaks. I have had good and bad experiences with XP. I have had Linux 
Mandrake 10.0 work perfectly on  several PCs, and make a complete pig's 
ear of  hardware detection on another  It took me about an hour to set 
up one hybrid wired/wireless network on 4 PCs with a shared broadband 
connection (2 XP one 98se, one 95), and about  30hrs  and several sets 
of hardware to set up another similar network  of 3 PCs (one XP, one 
98se/linux, one ME).

Despite all these problems, given the insanely low cost of PC hardware, 
I can't see any QL hardware development going anywhere. Not that I want 
to discourage anyone from developing hardware, but I see it essentially 
as a  hobby with a very limited potential user base, and little prospect 
of  paying for its development time.

This puts me firmly into the emulation camp.One  advantage of emulation 
is that I don't have such a great printer issue. All I need is the 
ability to store the data in a form where I can load it into native OS 
applications for printing (on my USB printer). For much of my needs, it 
is adequate to   take screen shots of superbasic windows and cut and 
paste them into grown-up applications such as open-office.

I'd be interested to know what the final  split is  in Tony's/Quanta's 
survey between more traditional hardware and the emulators. I haven't 
filled it in yet myself - I started, but then got frustrated and gave up 
- as an ex-Quanta member I feel that I should be able to fill in the 
Quanta related questions. Isn't anyone interested in why people leave, 
and what could be done to get them to rejoin?

(now I've joined about 4 threads)
Jeremy
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-27 Thread P Witte
Jeremy Taffel writes:

 My experiences with XP are mixed. Normally I have no problems
 whatsoever. However  I have encountered one  AMD  Athlon powered machine
 from Time  which is guaranteed to have a fit any time  any new USB
 device is attached and  sometimes  throws a fit when new software  (eg
 open office)  are installed. One item ( USB wireless network device)
 which I have had working fine on several other machines refused point
 blank to install properly. its difficult to know if its a hardware fault
 or incompabilities between various chipsets.


Ive just had some problems with a new Athlon machine (CPU and memory)
crashing when using certain software and drivers. It appears this could be
due to the quality of the RAM installed. Until the new RAM arrives, I
survive by reducing the speed of the FSB. No more crashes so far.

Per

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Thu, 25 Nov 2004 at 21:07:54, Dave P wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])


Ironically, this is more-or-less what Nasta designed as the Aurora II.

My only discomfort over Nasta's design is that he is extremely concerned
about efficiency of space. Therefore, he's crammed an awful lot into a
very small 6-layer PCB. I would always be inclined to spread things out a
bit and go for fewer layers. But that's just me - spending a bit extra on
PCB to save the cost in time to shoehorn all those tracks into SUCH a
small space ;)
It is likely, surely,  that the bigger PCB with fewer layers is cheaper.

Nasta is just too efficient for his own good ;)

... but he isn't costing his time (8-)#

I must say I enjoy, especially with RomDisq, in getting a small compact
PCBs, and it helps increase signal integrity.

I bet Nasta's design is not as 'crammed' per layer as the 2-layer
RomDisq.  It was quite hard finding a PCB manufacturer who could
routinely handle 3mil PCB track separation.

Tony
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Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread dilwyn.jones
  To develop a board for a laptop is an interesting proposition. It's about
  the same as the challenge of developing a board for a PC, but with
  additional power challenges.
 
 The QL uses such minimal power that unless we are using Coldfire this
 can be ignored.
 
  If a QL-replacement board with SVGA output was made in a standard
  form-factor and the same schematic was also laid out for a common
  taiwanese laptop case, this could technically work.
  
  The likely route would be to buy a stack of itentical budget laptops, and
  use the existing PSU/battery, HD, and CD/DVD mechanism, and just replace
  the motherboard. This would be cheaper than designing/buying all those
  items separately.
 
 This is an interesting idea.
  
  Would people be willing to pay a $400-$600 premium for a laptop? That has
  1/10th the performance of if you'd left it alone and just installed QPC?
 
 Yes, if they were serious, while the laptop would be much faster than 
 1/10th, in fact it will be faster than QPC, while if it uses Coldfire
 that will bring it into the next league. Do not forget the sales on 
 other platforms.
 
 -- 
Tarquin Mills
It's certainly an interesting idea, although the price might make it 
impractical.

Certainly, we don't need all the PC bells and whistles (fastest DVD drives, 
terabytes of hard disk and so on), so a low end laptop would probably suffice 
with a fast QL or Q60 type board put into it. Production runs won't be that 
large, so perhaps buying up cheaper end of line laptops. The idea doesn't 
appeal to me personally, as QPC2 would be adequate for my needs, but I can see 
that what might amount to a laptop Q60 (name only used to illustrate the 
possibilities) might well appeal to some if the price was right. As I mentioned 
the Q60, if something like a redesigned Q60 was slotted into a cheapish laptop 
with floppy drive, CD-ROM, ser and par ports and built in screen, it might well 
fill the kind of machine you envisage.

Someone else on this list mentioned that the only really viable hardware route 
now is for expanding black QLs now that there is no Super Gold Card or anything 
like that in production. There is a logic to this argument too, especially as 
Nasta's design work has meant that there may be a viable one already at least 
partly designed.

Keep talking, we may get some viable ideas out of this yet!

Dilwyn Jones

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Rich Mellor
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 23:32:40 +, Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

On  Thu, 25 Nov 2004 at 19:10:03, Rich Mellor wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:00:34 -0600 (CST), Dave P [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  snip
I know I could have used a serial lead but there is no longer any 
transfer software available to use this
Of course there is. What is wrong with qtpi? That will work with any old 
terminal program on any platform.
Have never used qtpi I must admit - now here's another possible article 
for Quanta if someone wants to write it..  How to use QTPI and/or transfer 
files between the QL and PC.

I still think that Di-Ren's software was a good idea - it allowed you to 
use the hard disk on a PC for storage - now if that could be used to store 
files within a QXL.WIN file on the PC  Guess you'll say just run QTPI on 
both the QL and from within an emulator on the PC (if user has bought a 
copy).

... and QuaLsoft file transfer for QL (and PC) still works.
Is the QuaLsoft software public domain - can't say I remember seeing it 
anywhere


--
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RWAP Services
26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ
http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Rich Mellor
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:46:45 +, Derek Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
I do not want to run Linux or Windows, so that makes the current laptops 
a non starter.

Derek
Ooh - a call for QPC 1 :-)
--
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RWAP Services
26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ
http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/
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Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread dilwyn.jones
  Of course there is. What is wrong with qtpi? That will work with any old 
  terminal program on any platform.
 
 Have never used qtpi I must admit - now here's another possible article 
 for Quanta if someone wants to write it..  How to use QTPI and/or transfer 
 files between the QL and PC.
Just as Tony recovers from the Quanta questionnaire there's an ideal next job 
for him ;-)

 I still think that Di-Ren's software was a good idea - it allowed you to 
 use the hard disk on a PC for storage - now if that could be used to store 
 files within a QXL.WIN file on the PC  Guess you'll say just run QTPI on 
 both the QL and from within an emulator on the PC (if user has bought a 
 copy).
Sernet is probably just as viable a solution, if you can get it to connect 
between the machines in question.

Sernet and QL-PC Fileserver must work at about the same speed (i.e. limited by 
serial ports) I'd have thought. Pity Qubide doesn't do QXL.WIN or you might 
have been able to speed up disk transfer with an IDE Iomega Zip or EZ135 drive 
or some such device capable of connection to QL and PC. If Duncan Neithercutt 
or Wolgang Lenerz are listening, could programs like QCDEZE or QXLWIN help put 
files into a QXL.WIN on a zip disk on a Qubide equipped QL? There was also a 
version of Discover which I remember Dave Walker proposing at one point for 
Qubides, don't know how far that got.

Dilwyn Jones

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Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread dilwyn.jones
  Ooh - a call for QPC 1 :-)
  --
  Rich Mellor
  What makes you think he wants to run DOS???
  Dilwyn Jones
 Yeah but at least you could set up the boot sector to boot straight into 
 QPC1 and therefore avoid seeing DOS altogether (could you not?? Or was 
 that just QXL) ??
 
 -- 
 Rich Mellor
Good point. During my recent XPriences I had to set my PC to boot up from CD, 
as the CD would not install from DOS. At one point when I totally confused 
myself, the PC, the CD and everything the CD intelligently loaded FreeDOS 
(which I didn't even know was there) and gave me the polite message I can't 
run without Windows. So now I know that I have something like FreeDOS on one 
of my CDs ;-)

You might need a few things in config.sys or autoexec.bat like mouse driver, 
himem.sys or whatever else QPC1 might need, but I'm sure Darren has done 
something like this before (which is probably where else I've heard the name 
FreeDOS), the PC which is used ONLY for QPC1 and sod everything else!

Dilwyn Jones

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Wolfgang Lenerz
On 26 Nov 2004 at 10:06, Rich Mellor wrote:
(...)
 I still think that Di-Ren's software was a good idea - it allowed you to 
 use the hard disk on a PC for storage - now if that could be used to store 
 files within a QXL.WIN file on the PC  Guess you'll say just run QTPI on 
 both the QL and from within an emulator on the PC (if user has bought a 
 copy).

I'm a bit confused as to what you're trying to achieve here?
Copying files to/from a PC to/from a QL?


Wolfgang

www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Wolfgang Lenerz
On 26 Nov 2004 at 13:11, Rich Mellor wrote:
(...)



 Basically yes - Di-rens fileserver program allowed you to use the PCs hard 
 drive as storage for the QL - useful for backups at least - no need for a 
 QL emulator and all the header info etc was automatically stored and 
 retrieved when you tried to copy files back from the PC to the QL.

How were the PC and the QL connected for that program?

(...)

Wolfgang

www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Rich Mellor
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:18:23 +0100, Wolfgang Lenerz 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 26 Nov 2004 at 13:11, Rich Mellor wrote:
(...)

Basically yes - Di-rens fileserver program allowed you to use the PCs 
hard
drive as storage for the QL - useful for backups at least - no need for 
a
QL emulator and all the header info etc was automatically stored and
retrieved when you tried to copy files back from the PC to the QL.
How were the PC and the QL connected for that program?
No idea - I never owned it alas - guess a serial lead was supplied with 
the package


--
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RWAP Services
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http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Fri, 26 Nov 2004 at 10:06:45, Rich Mellor wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 23:32:40 +, Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

On  Thu, 25 Nov 2004 at 19:10:03, Rich Mellor wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:00:34 -0600 (CST), Dave P 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
  snip
I know I could have used a serial lead but there is no longer any 
transfer software available to use this
Of course there is. What is wrong with qtpi? That will work with any 
old  terminal program on any platform.
Have never used qtpi I must admit - now here's another possible article 
for Quanta if someone wants to write it..  How to use QTPI and/or 
transfer files between the QL and PC.
Been there.
It is trivial.
Just a matter of connecting with a suitable lead (as for SERNET). Masses 
of endless discussion here and everywhere on that.

The simply send a file by Zmodem.  The receiving Terminal program will 
automatically receive and save.

That is it.
I still think that Di-Ren's software was a good idea - it allowed you 
to use the hard disk on a PC for storage - now if that could be used to 
store files within a QXL.WIN file on the PC  Guess you'll say just run 
QTPI on both the QL and from within an emulator on the PC (if user has 
bought a copy).

... and QuaLsoft file transfer for QL (and PC) still works.
Is the QuaLsoft software public domain - can't say I remember seeing it 
anywhere
I guess it is now.  I have not sold one for 10 or more years.


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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Fri, 26 Nov 2004 at 13:11:08, Rich Mellor wrote:
(ref:
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:00:39 +0100, Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
lenerz.com wrote:

 On 26 Nov 2004 at 10:06, Rich Mellor wrote:
 (...)
 I still think that Di-Ren's software was a good idea - it allowed you to
 use the hard disk on a PC for storage - now if that could be used to
store
 files within a QXL.WIN file on the PC  Guess you'll say just run QTPI on
 both the QL and from within an emulator on the PC (if user has bought a
 copy).

 I'm a bit confused as to what you're trying to achieve here?
 Copying files to/from a PC to/from a QL?


Basically yes - Di-rens fileserver program allowed you to use the PCs
hard drive as storage for the QL - useful for backups at least - no
need for a QL emulator and all the header info etc was automatically
stored and retrieved when you tried to copy files back from the PC to
the QL.
Ahha - you didn't mention headers.
In my previous comment, I was assuming files did not need header
preservation.  All EXEC files would need to be zipped.


Tony
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Tony Firshman
On  Fri, 26 Nov 2004 at 13:29:46, Tarquin Mills wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Rich Mellor wrote:
Basically yes - Di-rens fileserver program allowed you to use the PCs hard
drive as storage for the QL - useful for backups at least - no need for a
QL emulator and all the header info etc was automatically stored and
retrieved when you tried to copy files back from the PC to the QL.
Would be useful still for people with basic QLs (with Hermes / SuperHermes
of course) who can't find a miracle hard disk and don't want to put the QL
in a case... (unless someone knows of a source of external hard disks that
can work with QubIDE??)
I use a ROMDisq in this situation, though a new 128MB ROMDisq would
solve the problem.
(8-)#
Technically I could make a 16mb RomDisq with the existing hardware.
Unfortunately the minimum chip buy is about UKP5,000, so not on.
Tony

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Dave P


On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Tony Firshman wrote:

 ... but he isn't costing his time (8-)#

If he did, the community would have been laid to rest LONG ago. I think we
should all give a round of applause for Nasta...

 I must say I enjoy, especially with RomDisq, in getting a small compact
 PCBs, and it helps increase signal integrity.

Indeed. The RomDisq is an external part, so it is desirable to
make it fit just so. A QL-replacement board can fit a more generous form
factor.

 I bet Nasta's design is not as 'crammed' per layer as the 2-layer
 RomDisq.  It was quite hard finding a PCB manufacturer who could
 routinely handle 3mil PCB track separation.

So THAT'S why your eyesight is all messed up. :)

Dave



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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Roy wood
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Derek Stewart 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Hi,
I do not want to run Linux or Windows, so that makes the current 
laptops a non starter.
Ah but you are a rare beast, Derek. Most people want to do at least one 
of these other things.
--
Roy Wood
Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB
Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501
web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Roy wood
In message 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Good point. During my recent XPriences I had to set my PC to boot up 
from CD, as the CD would not install from DOS.
Did you solve the CD problem ? It only occurred to me today that it was 
probably a lack of higher driver for the IDE bus that was making the CD 
not work. It can handle a HDD but not a CD if it is not loaded 
correctly. These are motherboard chipset specific.
--
Roy Wood
Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB
Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501
web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread James Hunkins
On Nov 26, 2004, at 1:26 AM, Tony Firshman wrote:
On  Thu, 25 Nov 2004 at 21:07:54, Dave P wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])


My only discomfort over Nasta's design is that he is extremely 
concerned
about efficiency of space. Therefore, he's crammed an awful lot into a
very small 6-layer PCB. I would always be inclined to spread things 
out a
bit and go for fewer layers. But that's just me - spending a bit 
extra on
PCB to save the cost in time to shoehorn all those tracks into SUCH a
small space ;)
It is likely, surely,  that the bigger PCB with fewer layers is 
cheaper.
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
I would presume that he is using a couple of the layers for power and 
ground, which will help a lot with the higher speeds and tend to keep 
noise off the signals.  Also, in manufacturing these days I believe in 
higher quantities that 6 layers isn't much more (may actually be less 
than) than 4 layers.

jim
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread James Hunkins
Malcolm,
As an alternative on your side can't you set your email program to wrap 
the lines for you?  Both my email programs do this automatically and 
all the emails that I have received from this list are fitted 
automatically to my window width which is great!  If someone forces 
hard stops in a line as you suggest, then when the reader gets it and 
if his window doesn't match the width, he ends up getting some short 
cutoff lines which are a bit annoying :)

Cheers,
jim
On Nov 26, 2004, at 10:37 AM, Malcolm Cadman wrote:
In message 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

Certainly, we don't need all the PC bells and whistles (fastest DVD 
drives, terabytes of hard disk and so on), so a low end laptop would 
probably suffice with a fast QL or Q60 type board put into it. 
Production runs won't be that large, so perhaps buying up cheaper end 
of line laptops. The idea doesn't appeal to me personally, as QPC2 
would be adequate for my needs, but I can see that what might amount 
to a laptop Q60 (name only used to illustrate the possibilities) 
might well appeal to some if the price was right. As I mentioned the 
Q60, if something like a redesigned Q60 was slotted into a cheapish 
laptop with floppy drive, CD-ROM, ser and par ports and built in 
screen, it might well fill the kind of machine you envisage.
Dilwyn ... any chance of setting your line width to 70 characters. ?
Like the above.  When receiving your current emails they have long 
lines ...

Probably because you are mailing from a different portable PC ?
--
Malcolm Cadman
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RE: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Duncan Neithercut
Dilwyn

The simple solution is Compact flash cards. A 256MB
card is only £30 in PC World - not the cheapest place either.

Readers exist on :
Qubide, PC and Qx0. The CF people have decided to use
FAT16 format for cards upto 1 GB. I expect but dont know
that zip drives under this capacity also use FAT16 as this
is the Windows way. I also suspect but dont know that
all the other formats like SmartMedia and XD etc also
use FAT 16 upto 1 GB. The difference will lie in the reseved
sectors for PC devices which my programe ignores.
Anyone got an IDE multicard reader to test this on or
a spare Zip drive, promise to return it?

I have written software that allows me to read write and
delete from the Qx0 to FAT16 formatted cards with a
crap user interface.
I expectthat the FAT 16 SBASIC will also work on
Qubide  Aurora as Qubide also supports IDE CF
 card readers. At the moment I am finishing the
nice GUI which I decided a while ago in a moment
of optimism to write using QPTR from scratch.
Dont hold your breath but it will be finished, but
once completed it should solve the PC to QL transfer
for me and for MBs of data.

If people want to go above the 1Gb limit FAT32 is
not much different from FAT16 - key difference is
obviously the size of pointer to FAT table  sector.

Duncan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 26 November 2004 10:31
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...


  Of course there is. What is wrong with qtpi? That will work with any old
  terminal program on any platform.

 Have never used qtpi I must admit - now here's another possible article
 for Quanta if someone wants to write it..  How to use QTPI and/or transfer
 files between the QL and PC.
Just as Tony recovers from the Quanta questionnaire there's an ideal next
job for him ;-)

 I still think that Di-Ren's software was a good idea - it allowed you to
 use the hard disk on a PC for storage - now if that could be used to store
 files within a QXL.WIN file on the PC  Guess you'll say just run QTPI on
 both the QL and from within an emulator on the PC (if user has bought a
 copy).
Sernet is probably just as viable a solution, if you can get it to connect
between the machines in question.

Sernet and QL-PC Fileserver must work at about the same speed (i.e. limited
by serial ports) I'd have thought. Pity Qubide doesn't do QXL.WIN or you
might have been able to speed up disk transfer with an IDE Iomega Zip or
EZ135 drive or some such device capable of connection to QL and PC. If
Duncan Neithercutt or Wolgang Lenerz are listening, could programs like
QCDEZE or QXLWIN help put files into a QXL.WIN on a zip disk on a Qubide
equipped QL? There was also a version of Discover which I remember Dave
Walker proposing at one point for Qubides, don't know how far that got.

Dilwyn Jones

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-26 Thread Dave P


On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, James Hunkins wrote:

 I would presume that he is using a couple of the layers for power and
 ground, which will help a lot with the higher speeds and tend to keep
 noise off the signals.  Also, in manufacturing these days I believe in
 higher quantities that 6 layers isn't much more (may actually be less
 than) than 4 layers.

This isn't as true as you might think, but for design rather than
practical reasons.

6-layer boards are usually autorouted. 4-layer boards are more likely to
be hand-routed and typically are better designed as a result.

6-layer boards are about 30% more expensive than 4-layer boards even in
runs of 10,000.

Dave

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[ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-25 Thread Dave P

There are two things making new hardware a difficult proposition.

The first is that people have a hard time buying something new when their
existing one is still working.

The second is that a new one costs more than what they already have, and
it's really hard to write off your previous investment to buy a new system
with different requirements.

The current situation is interesting just because almost everyone is using
a novel, tweaked, string-tied machine that works as if by magic. That is
something so personal and intimate that it is really hard to give that up
and buy a clean, new, integrated box that does all that. Where's the
charm? :)

Obviously, peoples' actions show they are usually not willing to invest in
a new machine (like a Q60) to replace their existing set-up, though they
may buy one to supplement it.

Therefore, even if new hardware were possible and affordable, I don't
think it would make any difference. That's just my opinion, though.

What do YOU think?

Dave


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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-25 Thread Tarquin Mills
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Dave P wrote:
 There are two things making new hardware a difficult proposition.
 
 The first is that people have a hard time buying something new when their
 existing one is still working.
 
 The second is that a new one costs more than what they already have, and
 it's really hard to write off your previous investment to buy a new system
 with different requirements.
 
 The current situation is interesting just because almost everyone is using
 a novel, tweaked, string-tied machine that works as if by magic. That is
 something so personal and intimate that it is really hard to give that up
 and buy a clean, new, integrated box that does all that. Where's the
 charm? :)
 
 Obviously, peoples' actions show they are usually not willing to invest in
 a new machine (like a Q60) to replace their existing set-up, though they
 may buy one to supplement it.
 
 Therefore, even if new hardware were possible and affordable, I don't
 think it would make any difference. That's just my opinion, though.
 
 What do YOU think?

  If it was a portable at reasonable price people would buy it,
people would buy the Platinum card (Quanta may fund it if there is
a business plan). I am looking into making a bid to the national 
lottery to afford the (portable) cases, other minority platform and 
small manufacturers could share costs. However once there is a case a 
QL will be needed to go in it.

-- 
   Tarquin Mills

ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society)
http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-25 Thread Dave P


On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Tarquin Mills wrote:

   If it was a portable at reasonable price people would buy it,
 people would buy the Platinum card (Quanta may fund it if there is
 a business plan). I am looking into making a bid to the national
 lottery to afford the (portable) cases, other minority platform and
 small manufacturers could share costs. However once there is a case a
 QL will be needed to go in it.

When you say portable do you mean a laptop or PDA or something complete
and self-contained, or a desktop that is self-contained, not made of
thousands of bits held together with string and shaped like the
International Space Station?

To develop a board for a laptop is an interesting proposition. It's about
the same as the challenge of developing a board for a PC, but with
additional power challenges.

If a QL-replacement board with SVGA output was made in a standard
form-factor and the same schematic was also laid out for a common
taiwanese laptop case, this could technically work.

The likely route would be to buy a stack of itentical budget laptops, and
use the existing PSU/battery, HD, and CD/DVD mechanism, and just replace
the motherboard. This would be cheaper than designing/buying all those
items separately.

Would people be willing to pay a $400-$600 premium for a laptop? That has
1/10th the performance of if you'd left it alone and just installed QPC?

Dave, Devil's Advocate.


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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-25 Thread Rich Mellor
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:46:42 -0600 (CST), Dave P [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

There are two things making new hardware a difficult proposition.
The first is that people have a hard time buying something new when their
existing one is still working.
The second is that a new one costs more than what they already have, and
it's really hard to write off your previous investment to buy a new 
system
with different requirements.

The current situation is interesting just because almost everyone is 
using
a novel, tweaked, string-tied machine that works as if by magic. That is
something so personal and intimate that it is really hard to give that up
and buy a clean, new, integrated box that does all that. Where's the
charm? :)

Obviously, peoples' actions show they are usually not willing to invest 
in
a new machine (like a Q60) to replace their existing set-up, though they
may buy one to supplement it.

Therefore, even if new hardware were possible and affordable, I don't
think it would make any difference. That's just my opinion, though.
What do YOU think?
I think this is a very valid point Dave.  I am not sure what call there 
would be for another replacement QL system rather than add on cards.  The 
problem we now face is that it seems unfair to produce a new add on card 
for the QL which would not work with the Aurora or Qx0 (the former is 
presumably not a problem, but the latter)

If a USB or Ethernet card was created for the QL/Aurora for example, could 
the same drivers be used within a QL emulator and Qx0 without being 
re-written??  I guess there are some USB and Ethernet cards which could be 
used with the Qx0 now, if only the drivers existed.

--
Rich Mellor
RWAP Services
26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ
http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-25 Thread Dave P


On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Rich Mellor wrote:

 problem we now face is that it seems unfair to produce a new add on card
 for the QL which would not work with the Aurora or Qx0 (the former is
 presumably not a problem, but the latter)

Yes. People tend to resent developments that marginalise them, even when
they have no plan of ever buying the development. They fear that future
software may not run on their systems...

 If a USB or Ethernet card was created for the QL/Aurora for example, could
 the same drivers be used within a QL emulator and Qx0 without being
 re-written??  I guess there are some USB and Ethernet cards which could be
 used with the Qx0 now, if only the drivers existed.

The hardware for QL ethernet was already designed by Nasta, and the work
to produce it is trivial. However, drivers are the Big Issue. I do in fact
have a pile of ethernet board components here bought for Nasta's design.
It would be relatively cheap to produce.

Dave


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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-25 Thread Rich Mellor
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:00:34 -0600 (CST), Dave P [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:


On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Rich Mellor wrote:
problem we now face is that it seems unfair to produce a new add on card
for the QL which would not work with the Aurora or Qx0 (the former is
presumably not a problem, but the latter)
Yes. People tend to resent developments that marginalise them, even when
they have no plan of ever buying the development. They fear that future
software may not run on their systems...
If a USB or Ethernet card was created for the QL/Aurora for example, 
could
the same drivers be used within a QL emulator and Qx0 without being
re-written??  I guess there are some USB and Ethernet cards which could 
be
used with the Qx0 now, if only the drivers existed.
The hardware for QL ethernet was already designed by Nasta, and the work
to produce it is trivial. However, drivers are the Big Issue. I do in 
fact
have a pile of ethernet board components here bought for Nasta's design.
It would be relatively cheap to produce.

Dave
In that case, this sounds like a good project for Quanta funding - does 
ANYONE in the QL community have sufficient knowledge and expertise to 
develop the drivers??

One thing the QL is now severly lacking is the ability to link to other 
computers - anyone who has upgraded to QPC2 as their main system will know 
the problems that we all face in transferring all the software across.  
Certainly having done it one way using HD disks, I would not fancy 
transferring the files back across !!

I know I could have used a serial lead but there is no longer any transfer 
software available to use this plus it is no faster than using HD disks... 
(hmm a lot of modern PCs no longer have parallel ports - how long will the 
serial port last??)

--
Rich Mellor
RWAP Services
26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ
http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/
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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-25 Thread Wolfgang Lenerz
On 25 Nov 2004 at 11:57, Dave P wrote:

 Dave, Devil's Advocate.
 
Welcome to the club 
grin

Wolfgang

www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com

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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-25 Thread Dave P


On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Rich Mellor wrote:

 In that case, this sounds like a good project for Quanta funding - does
 ANYONE in the QL community have sufficient knowledge and expertise to
 develop the drivers??

Not yet, I don't think it is.

Most elements of Nasta's Aurora II design are tried and tested, but the
ethernet part is completely new. I would be inclined to suggest a short
run of prototype ethernet only QL-standard expansion cards to go to
developers. Once the hardware exists, it becomes an option to form a
working group to produce drivers and a friendly API.

We're looking at a few hundred pounds for the hardware, and
hundreds-thousands of hours for the drivers...

Dave


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Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...

2004-11-25 Thread Tarquin Mills
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dave P wrote:
 On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Tarquin Mills wrote:
 
If it was a portable at reasonable price people would buy it,
  people would buy the Platinum card (Quanta may fund it if there is
  a business plan). I am looking into making a bid to the national
  lottery to afford the (portable) cases, other minority platform and
  small manufacturers could share costs. However once there is a case a
  QL will be needed to go in it.
 
 When you say portable do you mean a laptop or PDA or something complete
 and self-contained, or a desktop that is self-contained, not made of
 thousands of bits held together with string and shaped like the
 International Space Station?

A true laptop, my MinisQ60 (which not as bad as the ISS) is stage one.

 To develop a board for a laptop is an interesting proposition. It's about
 the same as the challenge of developing a board for a PC, but with
 additional power challenges.

The QL uses such minimal power that unless we are using Coldfire this
can be ignored.

 If a QL-replacement board with SVGA output was made in a standard
 form-factor and the same schematic was also laid out for a common
 taiwanese laptop case, this could technically work.
 
 The likely route would be to buy a stack of itentical budget laptops, and
 use the existing PSU/battery, HD, and CD/DVD mechanism, and just replace
 the motherboard. This would be cheaper than designing/buying all those
 items separately.

This is an interesting idea.
 
 Would people be willing to pay a $400-$600 premium for a laptop? That has
 1/10th the performance of if you'd left it alone and just installed QPC?

Yes, if they were serious, while the laptop would be much faster than 
1/10th, in fact it will be faster than QPC, while if it uses Coldfire
that will bring it into the next league. Do not forget the sales on 
other platforms.

-- 
   Tarquin Mills

ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society)
http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/
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