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Re: unsubscribe qmail
Alex Khanin writes: unsubscribe qmail Done, or at least it will be when you reply to the confirmation message. But why didn't you just send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] yourself?? Wouldn't that have been faster? Remember that address, folks: vvv vvv vvv [EMAIL PROTECTED] ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ -- -russ nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://russnelson.com | A steak, bacon Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | and cheese sandwich is 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | offensive to every major Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | +1 315 268 9201 FAX | religion.
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Title: Unsubscribe qmail (fpo) unsubscribe qmail Toby Steel (E-mail 2).vcf
Re: unsubscribe qmail
On Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 02:29:11AM +0100, Ricardo Cerqueira wrote:
On Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 03:39:43PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hmm. Maybe I'm confused. How do people think the envelope sender
value is determined in the first instant? Eg, how does Eudora go from
a mail in a window to "Mail From: " in SMTP? Or how does qmail-inject
for that matter?
qmail-inject uses environment variables for From (not From:).
What are you talking about? What does "From (not From:)" mean?
If you deduced this from qmail/djb-docs, all of these references
(unless specifically talking about final delivery) mean the "From:"
header. You might care to read cr.yp.to/immhf.htm for a more general
discussion on mail headers.
The only "From" that qmail-inject deals with is "From:". If you think
otherwise show us some output from qmail-inject -n that has this
mysterious "From (not From:)" that you refer to.
If you are referring to the "From " line, this is not a mail header,
that any part of the mail injection deals with. Instead, "From " is a
very poorly defined delimiter in V7 mailboxes that is generated at
final delivery which has nothing to do with injection.
If you still don't believe me and you don't want to bother explain
by demonstration, have a look at this code from qmail-inject.c:
void defaultfrommake()
{
...
df.t[df.len].s = "From";
df.t[df.len].slen = 4;
++df.len;
df.t[df.len].type = TOKEN822_COLON;
It's the only piece of code that has "From" and it looks like "From:" to me.
For those who do not use qmail-inject directly (Like those using remote
SMTP with Eudora, to use your example), the "From" is generated by the MUA.
So yes, those cases are "hopeless". "From:" will almost certainly be the base
for "From"
I think you're confused. There is no "From" that is separate from "From:".
If you think otherwise, inject a mail into qmail via SMTP using a mail client
like Eudora and show us the queue file with this "From" header you refer to.
(Use a target address that cannot be delivered so you can catch the queue
entry).
The answer is that it's mostly derived from a parse of the various
headers in the original mail when it's injected into the MTA. In
many cases the most likely header that will be used to derive the
envelope sender will be the From: header. So to suggest that the
unparsed From: header is a better place to look for the sender
seems a bit silly to me because in many cases the envelope sender is
simply a parsed version of the From: header.
Not really. You can have very odd "From:" lines (with 8bit chars, spaces),
but From is (or should always be) a plain old user@domain string. It's
easier to parse, and probably less prone to error.
Are you sure you're not confusing this discussion with the "From " line
that is generated on delivery into a mailbox? Which by the way *is*
used to stash the envelope sender address, which *is* original derived
from fields like "From: ".
Regards.
Re[2]: unsubscribe qmail
Saturday, October 28, 2000, 3:06:42 PM, you wrote: On Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 02:29:11AM +0100, Ricardo Cerqueira wrote: You might care to read cr.yp.to/immhf.htm for a more general discussion on mail headers. HTTP 404 - File not found -- Jarle H. Knudsen
Re: Re[2]: unsubscribe qmail
"Jarle" == Jarle Hammen Knudsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jarle HTTP 404 - File not found Let's see...have we ever tried, just for the sake of it, appending an 'l' to the end of a '.htm' to just see if it works? -- "People say Microsoft payed $14M for using the Rolling Stones song 'Start me up' in their commercials. This is wrong. Microsoft payed $14M only for a part of the song. For instance, they didn't use the line 'You'll make a grown man cry'."
Re: unsubscribe qmail
On Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 03:45:40PM +0200, Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote: Saturday, October 28, 2000, 3:06:42 PM, you wrote: On Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 02:29:11AM +0100, Ricardo Cerqueira wrote: You might care to read cr.yp.to/immhf.htm for a more general discussion on mail headers. HTTP 404 - File not found Sorry. .html Now wouldn't it be neat if URLs included a checksum and that your MUA only identified them as such if the checksum matched? Blue for a good URL, red for a syntactically correct, my with a checksum error. That would of course then cover mailto: as well! Regards.
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unsubscribe qmail Mike Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] 302-326-5820 888-559-5550 (Tech Support)
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Me too -Original Message- From: Mike Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 8:45 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: unsubscribe qmail unsubscribe qmail Mike Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] 302-326-5820 888-559-5550 (Tech Support)
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"Scott" == Scott Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Scott Me too I'll third that! -- "But what...is it good for?" - Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip
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unsubscribe qmail Landon Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: unsubscribe qmail
Are you people sending mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] from your signed e-mail addresses? You should look at the mail header of this message and see what's your address. The very first (mostly) is something like this: Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Which means I'm subscribed to qmail list as [EMAIL PROTECTED] So I should send mailing list request as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Try it and you'll need no administrator/listmaster help. Daniel Augusto Fernandes (DAF tm) [EMAIL PROTECTED] GCSNethttp://www.gcsnet.com.br/ Se você não encontra o sentido das coisas é porque este não se encontra, se cria. Antoine Saint-Exupéry
Re: unsubscribe qmail
"Landon" == Landon Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Landon unsubscribe qmail Oh no! Its contagious!!! -- "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
Re: unsubscribe qmail
* Landon Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] [001027 13:18]: unsubscribe qmail Now, Landon, take a look at this: http://cr.yp.to/lists.html#qmail "To subscribe, send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]" Kinda makes one wonder what would happen if one sent an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], eh? And sometimes, one is also tempted to wonder if the admission test for American universities is to be able to write your own name. -- If you are too low a lifeform to be able to learn how to use the manual page subsystem, why should we help you? (Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: unsubscribe qmail
On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Daniel Augusto Fernandes wrote: [snip] You should look at the mail header of this message and see what's your address. The very first (mostly) is something like this: Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [clip] Great, except that it doesn't seem to exist on my messages. The following is pulled straight from a list message sitting in my imap maildir: Received: (qmail 20963 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2000 17:24:26 - Received: from muncher.math.uic.edu (131.193.178.181) by mail.foveon.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2000 17:24:26 - Received: (qmail 10241 invoked by uid 1002); 27 Oct 2000 16:02:44 - Mailing-List: contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk Delivered-To: mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 5165 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2000 16:02:44 - Received: from unknown (HELO nermal.donbest.com) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) by muncher.math.uic.edu with SMTP; 27 Oct 2000 16:02:44 - Received: (qmail 17052 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2000 16:02:49 - Received: from unknown (HELO newdbc) (192.168.3.2) by 205.199.214.25 with SMTP; 27 Oct 2000 16:02:49 - Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:03:41 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Bill Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Seamless e-mail virus scanner? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And that's all there is before the message body... Clues? -- Jeremy Stanley, Information Security Specialist Foveon Corporation --
Re: unsubscribe qmail
On Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 01:28:38PM -0400, Robin S. Socha wrote: * Landon Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] [001027 13:18]: unsubscribe qmail Now, Landon, take a look at this: http://cr.yp.to/lists.html#qmail "To subscribe, send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]" Kinda makes one wonder what would happen if one sent an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], eh? And sometimes, one is also tempted to wonder if the admission test for American universities is to be able to write your own name. Actually, someone brought this up recently, and I didn't have an explanation for them -- why does ezmlm subscribe the envelope sender instead of the address in From: ? --Adam -- Adam McKenna [EMAIL PROTECTED] | "No matter how much it changes, http://flounder.net/publickey.html | technology's just a bunch of wires GPG: 17A4 11F7 5E7E C2E7 08AA| connected to a bunch of other wires." 38B0 05D0 8BF7 2C6D 110A| Joe Rogan, _NewsRadio_ 3:36pm up 139 days, 12:52, 11 users, load average: 0.00, 0.03, 0.02
Re: unsubscribe qmail
Actually, someone brought this up recently, and I didn't have an explanation for them -- why does ezmlm subscribe the envelope sender instead of the address in From: ? Probably to help curb, if only slightly, the possibility of somebody subscribing somebody else without the latter person's knowledge. Depending on your ISP, faking the envelope sender could be more difficult than faking the "From:" header. ---Kris Kelley
Re: unsubscribe qmail
Adam McKenna [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes on 27 October 2000 at 15:37:01 -0400 On Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 01:28:38PM -0400, Robin S. Socha wrote: * Landon Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] [001027 13:18]: unsubscribe qmail Now, Landon, take a look at this: http://cr.yp.to/lists.html#qmail "To subscribe, send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]" Kinda makes one wonder what would happen if one sent an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], eh? And sometimes, one is also tempted to wonder if the admission test for American universities is to be able to write your own name. Actually, someone brought this up recently, and I didn't have an explanation for them -- why does ezmlm subscribe the envelope sender instead of the address in From: ? My understanding is that the underlying belief is that the envelope sender will be configured invalidly less often. I don't know if anybody has profiled this assumption, or how you'd come up with a sample considered representative to make such measurements on. My personal belief is that this is a mistake. And of course it's the primary cause of the very very frequent unsubscribe hassle. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / [EMAIL PROTECTED] Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/
Re: unsubscribe qmail
On Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 04:03:02PM -0500, Kris Kelley wrote: Actually, someone brought this up recently, and I didn't have an explanation for them -- why does ezmlm subscribe the envelope sender instead of the address in From: ? Probably to help curb, if only slightly, the possibility of somebody subscribing somebody else without the latter person's knowledge. Depending on your ISP, faking the envelope sender could be more difficult than faking the "From:" header. That's why ezmlm creates a random tag for each subscription that is sent back to the subscriber for confirmation. There is no way to subscribe someone else to an ezmlm list unless you have access to their mail spool. --Adam -- Adam McKenna [EMAIL PROTECTED] | "No matter how much it changes, http://flounder.net/publickey.html | technology's just a bunch of wires GPG: 17A4 11F7 5E7E C2E7 08AA| connected to a bunch of other wires." 38B0 05D0 8BF7 2C6D 110A| Joe Rogan, _NewsRadio_ 5:49pm up 139 days, 15:05, 11 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
Re: unsubscribe qmail
Actually, someone brought this up recently, and I didn't have an explanation for them -- why does ezmlm subscribe the envelope sender instead of the address in From: ? My understanding is that the underlying belief is that the envelope sender will be configured invalidly less often. I don't know if Hmm. Maybe I'm confused. How do people think the envelope sender value is determined in the first instant? Eg, how does Eudora go from a mail in a window to "Mail From: " in SMTP? Or how does qmail-inject for that matter? The answer is that it's mostly derived from a parse of the various headers in the original mail when it's injected into the MTA. In many cases the most likely header that will be used to derive the envelope sender will be the From: header. So to suggest that the unparsed From: header is a better place to look for the sender seems a bit silly to me because in many cases the envelope sender is simply a parsed version of the From: header. Regards.
Re: unsubscribe qmail
Thus said Daniel Augusto Fernandes on Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:07:49 -0200: You should look at the mail header of this message and see what's your address. The very first (mostly) is something like this: Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unfortunately, the return-path may not always be available... My ISP for instance uses exim which must be stripping the Return-Path header because emails that I get through them never have it. Andy -- [---[system uptime]] 6:56pm up 20 days, 22:23, 4 users, load average: 1.15, 1.29, 1.25
Re: unsubscribe qmail
Thus said Adam McKenna on Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:51:03 EDT: That's why ezmlm creates a random tag for each subscription that is sent back to the subscriber for confirmation. There is no way to subscribe someone else to an ezmlm list unless you have access to their mail spool. Then, what is to be done in the event that the reply-to header is set as well and it is different from the from? I believe that the sender is the most reliable for subscription/unsubscription. It probably wouldn't be hard to patch ezmlm to use from though if you wanted. :-) Andy -- [---[system uptime]] 7:07pm up 20 days, 22:34, 4 users, load average: 1.06, 1.17, 1.21
Re: unsubscribe qmail
mee too!
Re: unsubscribe qmail
On Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 03:39:43PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm. Maybe I'm confused. How do people think the envelope sender value is determined in the first instant? Eg, how does Eudora go from a mail in a window to "Mail From: " in SMTP? Or how does qmail-inject for that matter? qmail-inject uses environment variables for From (not From:). Depending on your MUA, it can use different ones. For example, most text-mode MUAs running in the same machine as qmail-inject (my case) use $USER or $LOGNAME. And the default envelope sender equals "From". For those who do not use qmail-inject directly (Like those using remote SMTP with Eudora, to use your example), the "From" is generated by the MUA. So yes, those cases are "hopeless". "From:" will almost certainly be the base for "From" The answer is that it's mostly derived from a parse of the various headers in the original mail when it's injected into the MTA. In many cases the most likely header that will be used to derive the envelope sender will be the From: header. So to suggest that the unparsed From: header is a better place to look for the sender seems a bit silly to me because in many cases the envelope sender is simply a parsed version of the From: header. Not really. You can have very odd "From:" lines (with 8bit chars, spaces), but From is (or should always be) a plain old user@domain string. It's easier to parse, and probably less prone to error. RC -- +--- | Ricardo Cerqueira | PGP Key fingerprint - B7 05 13 CE 48 0A BF 1E 87 21 83 DB 28 DE 03 42 | Novis - Engenharia ISP / Rede Técnica | Pç. Duque Saldanha, 1, 7º E / 1050-094 Lisboa / Portugal | Tel: +351 2 1010 - Fax: +351 2 1010 4459 PGP signature
Re: unsubscribe qmail
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes on 27 October 2000 at 15:39:43 -0700 Actually, someone brought this up recently, and I didn't have an explanation for them -- why does ezmlm subscribe the envelope sender instead of the address in From: ? My understanding is that the underlying belief is that the envelope sender will be configured invalidly less often. I don't know if Hmm. Maybe I'm confused. How do people think the envelope sender value is determined in the first instant? Eg, how does Eudora go from a mail in a window to "Mail From: " in SMTP? Or how does qmail-inject for that matter? Most of us think, if we don't pause to reflect, that the envelope sender is applied by sendmail or qmail-inject when the mail is submitted. This weird thing where people read mail on their PCs is foreign to me, and I tend to overlook it. And in that sort of environment, envelope sender really *is* less likely to be wrong. But it's such a small minority these days it hardly matters, in the real world. Also, there are a number of institutions and ISPs that insist on their users relaying through their servers, and they make sure the envelope sender is valid. This may still be a significant population. But generally I agree, it would be *much* better to use the from: header. I've thought about going in to patch it some time, but it hasn't made it up the priority list. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / [EMAIL PROTECTED] Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/
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