[qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 Sluggish feel, choppy UI

[Outback Dingo]

I dont remeber qubes being so sluggish on a skylake laptop with 64Gb,
qubes is installed on a SSD, however it now seems to take an awful
long time to switch windows, change tabs in firefox and chhrome,
launch VMs

also note that screen rendering, i can actually watch web pages paint,
as though video is being quirly or something, it is an NVIDIA card

any suggestions, nothing is swapping, memory seems ok, ive even
allocated 8192 mb to 2 vms which i see it in, both fedora and debian,
and i am up to date update wise.

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 - there will be rc5

[7v5w7go9ub0o]

EXCELLENT!


Please take your time!!!






On 02/15/2018 01:59 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Hi,
>
> Looking at the state of rc4, we're still not satisfied with the quality
> - - there will be rc5. Updated schedule here:
> https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/releases/4.0/schedule/
>
> - -- 
> Best Regards,
> Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> Invisible Things Lab
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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>

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[qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 - there will be rc5

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Hi,

Looking at the state of rc4, we're still not satisfied with the quality
- - there will be rc5. Updated schedule here:
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/releases/4.0/schedule/

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Tk0+4jL96dV6gHhZI+Lbz7/zGNLBIg==
=u2Uk
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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[qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 rc4 delay because of Meltdown and Spectre attacks

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Fri, Jan 05, 2018 at 12:14:43PM +, Marco Giglio wrote:
> By reading that advisory and information posted here (
> https://blog.xenproject.org/2018/01/04/xen-project-spectremeltdown-faq/),
> it seems that there are 2 possible short-term mitigations against
> Meltdown for QubesOS 3.2 users.
> -  Move PV VMs to HVM.

This option require VT-x support in the hardware. Something that wasn't
required by 3.2 before.

> -  Move PV VMs to use 32-bit kernels. It should prevent to use
> Meltdown/SP3 against the hypervisor, but it won't prevent it against the
> kernel itself.  Then update when newer 32-bit kernel with KPIT are
> available.

This option require replacing both VM kernel _and_ templates. Especially
painful for heavily customized templates.

> Qubes 4 users shouldn't be affected by SP3/Meltdown, but should be
> affected from SP1/SP2/Spectre.

Yes, that's correct.

We're still evaluating available options. For example there are three
alternative workarounds for SP3 developed in parallel on xen-devel, each
having own good and bad sides. And patches to mitigate SP1/SP2 are also
not ready yet.

For this reason, we're delaying Qubes OS rc4 (originally scheduled to be
released tomorrow), until we come up with final plan what to do about
those hardware issues.

> On 01/04/2018 10:53 PM, Chris Drake wrote:
> > It is very clear: https://xenbits.xen.org/xsa/advisory-254.html
> >
> > IMPACT
> > ==
> >
> > Xen guests may be able to infer the contents of arbitrary host memory,
> > including memory assigned to other guests.
> >
> > VULNERABLE SYSTEMS
> > ==
> >
> > Systems running all versions of Xen are affected.
> >
> > MITIGATION
> > ==
> >
> > There is no mitigation for SP1 and SP2.
> >
> > RESOLUTION
> > ==
> >
> > There is no available resolution for SP1 or SP3.
> >
> >
> > For those unaware - this is a hardware fault.  CPUs make use of speculative 
> > execution (Spectre) or Pipelines (Meltdown) - both of which can be used to 
> > attempt to access illegal memory.  The access fails, however, it's possible 
> > to use the "stolen" memory before the access-fail is enforced in a way that 
> > makes it available on a side-channel (cache in these exploits, but could be 
> > anything else like ports/dma) to any non-privileged process.
> >
> 

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[mikihonzero]

On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 5:27:27 PM UTC, Noor Christensen wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 06, 2017 at 12:45:09PM -0700, mikih...@gmail.com  
> wrote: 
> > Pretty much the same problems for me. Make iso doesn't include 
> templates. I 
> > built fc25 which is straightforward. Jessie builts a  ~560mb rpm, but 
> > errors out: template-local-jessie+minimal+no recommends. 
> > The important thing missing are make iso not including the templates (no 
> > errors though), any ideas ? 
>
> Could you attach the log file or provide some more context to what 
> happens before that error line? 
>
> -- noor 
>
> |_|O|_| 
> |_|_|O|  Noor Christensen   
> |O|O|O|  no...@fripost.org  ~ 0x401DA1E0 
>

Sorry, I haven't got the Installation anymore. I was using ./setup  and 
selected Jessie (no minimal and no gnome). It stopped at make 
linux-template-builder, after making the fc25 template. It prompts making 
jessie
template, then after some time errors out leaving a *600mb Jessie rpm.

Regards

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[mikihonzero]

On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 5:27:27 PM UTC, Noor Christensen wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 06, 2017 at 12:45:09PM -0700, mikih...@gmail.com  
> wrote: 
> > Pretty much the same problems for me. Make iso doesn't include 
> templates. I 
> > built fc25 which is straightforward. Jessie builts a  ~560mb rpm, but 
> > errors out: template-local-jessie+minimal+no recommends. 
> > The important thing missing are make iso not including the templates (no 
> > errors though), any ideas ? 
>
> Could you attach the log file or provide some more context to what 
> happens before that error line? 
>
> -- noor 
>
> |_|O|_| 
> |_|_|O|  Noor Christensen   
> |O|O|O|  no...@fripost.org  ~ 0x401DA1E0 
>

Sorry, no logs. The whole installation is deleted. For the error:
f24 template VM |  git clone qubes-builder | install gpg | ./setup | 
install deps+import keys | +qubes 4.0 | +testing repo | +fedora-builder, 
debian-builder, salt | NOT only templates | skip get-sources | +templates 
fc25, jessie (no jessie+minimal or other jessie/stretch variants) | exit.
#make install-deps
#nano example-configs/qubes-os-master.conf | edit out lines components kde, 
i3, awesome, pve-windows-drivers
#make get-sources
#make install-deps (PyYAML didn't get fetched before)
# make qubes
Now at make linux-template-builder fc25 builts ok, then prompt says jessie 
builts, then errors out missing 
recipe/target template-local-jessie+minimal+no recommends
In the built dir I have a ~600mb rpm of jessie one 1,5G fc25.
But as far as I remember, I tried a clean template only debian-builder + 
jessie built without any changes to example-configs or anything, just from 
./setup+make install-deps+make get-sources+make qubes-vm+make template with 
the same outcome.

regards

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[mikihonzero]

On Thursday, June 29, 2017 at 10:52:22 AM UTC, Outback Dingo wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 6:45 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki 
>  wrote: 
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- 
> > Hash: SHA256 
> > 
> > On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 06:41:33AM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote: 
> >> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 6:32 AM, Outback Dingo  > wrote: 
> >> > On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 6:31 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki 
> >> >  wrote: 
> >> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- 
> >> >> Hash: SHA256 
> >> >> 
> >> >> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 06:19:34AM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote: 
> >> >>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Outback Dingo  > wrote: 
> >> >>> > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Outback Dingo <
> outbac...@gmail.com > wrote: 
> >> >>> >> 
> >> >>> >> 
> >> >>> >> On Jun 28, 2017 20:16, "Marek Marczykowski-Górecki" 
> >> >>> >>  wrote: 
> >> >>> >> 
> >> >>> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- 
> >> >>> >> Hash: SHA256 
> >> >>> >> 
> >> >>> >> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 07:58:24PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote: 
> >> >>> >>> successful... now lets see what it does  -rw-r--r--  2 dingo 
> dingo 
> >> >>> >>> 1265631232 Jun 28 19:57 Qubes-DVD-x86_64-20170628.iso 
> >> >>> >> 
> >> >>> >> Hmm, it's a bit small. Should be about 3GB. I guess templates 
> are not 
> >> >>> >> included. Have you built them? Check 
> >> >>> >> qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch - if its empty, 
> execute 
> >> >>> >> "make template", then "make iso" again. 
> >> >>> >> 
> >> >>> >> 
> >> >>> >> I configured it for only F25 templates it's installing now also 
> during the 
> >> >>> >> install I noticed it only gave me a gui option for xfce not kde 
> I'll know 
> >> >>> >> more in 10 mins 
> >> >>> > ls 
> qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch/qubes-template-fc25-3.1.0-201706282236.noarch.rpm
>  
>
> >> >>> > 
> >> >>> > it is there, i also noticed when qubes rebooted after install and 
> >> >>> > asked for initial configuration it failed to configure basic 
> vms... 
> >> >>> > personal, work ... etc etc 
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> also make template 
> >> >>> -> Building template fc25 (logfile: 
> build-logs/template-fc25.log)... 
> >> >>> --> Done. 
> >> >>> /bin/bash: 
> /home/dingo/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-windows//scripts/convert-path.sh: 
>
> >> >>> Permission denied 
> >> >>> /bin/bash: line 0: pwd: -W: invalid option 
> >> >>> pwd: usage: pwd [-LP] 
> >> >>> make[1]: *** No rule to make target 'update-repo'.  Stop. 
> >> >>> make: *** [Makefile:294: template-local-win7x64] Error 1 
> >> >> 
> >> >> builder-windows?! 
> >> >> I thought you've enabled only fc25 template... 
> >> > 
> >> > i went back and enabled windows and debian templates, ive now 
> disabled 
> >> > windows again and just left debian 
> >> 
> >> and now -> Building template fc25 (logfile: 
> build-logs/template-fc25.log)... 
> >> --> Done. 
> >> Makefile.generic:28: *** Building packages for jessie not supported by 
> >> any of configured plugins.  Stop. 
> >> make: *** [Makefile:294: template-local-jessie] Error 1 
> > 
> > Do you have builder-debian plugin enabled? 
>
> like 
> BUILDER_PLUGINS = builder-fedora builder-debian 
>
> i just added it 
>
> > 
> > - -- 
> > Best Regards, 
> > Marek Marczykowski-Górecki 
> > Invisible Things Lab 
> > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. 
> > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? 
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- 
> > Version: GnuPG v2 
> > 
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> > =Nco5 
> > -END PGP SIGNATURE- 
> > 
> > -- 
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>  
>
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>

Pretty much the same problems for me. Make iso doesn't include templates. I 
built fc25 which is straightforward. Jessie builts a  ~560mb rpm, but 
errors out: template-local-jessie+minimal+no recommends.
The important thing missing are make iso not including the templates (no 
errors though), any ideas ? 

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 06:41:33AM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 6:32 AM, Outback Dingo  wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 6:31 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> >  wrote:
> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> >> Hash: SHA256
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 06:19:34AM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Outback Dingo  
> >>> wrote:
> >>> > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Outback Dingo  
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Jun 28, 2017 20:16, "Marek Marczykowski-Górecki"
> >>> >>  wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> >>> >> Hash: SHA256
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 07:58:24PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> >>> >>> successful... now lets see what it does  -rw-r--r--  2 dingo dingo
> >>> >>> 1265631232 Jun 28 19:57 Qubes-DVD-x86_64-20170628.iso
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Hmm, it's a bit small. Should be about 3GB. I guess templates are not
> >>> >> included. Have you built them? Check
> >>> >> qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch - if its empty, execute
> >>> >> "make template", then "make iso" again.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I configured it for only F25 templates it's installing now also during 
> >>> >> the
> >>> >> install I noticed it only gave me a gui option for xfce not kde I'll 
> >>> >> know
> >>> >> more in 10 mins
> >>> > ls 
> >>> > qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch/qubes-template-fc25-3.1.0-201706282236.noarch.rpm
> >>> >
> >>> > it is there, i also noticed when qubes rebooted after install and
> >>> > asked for initial configuration it failed to configure basic vms...
> >>> > personal, work ... etc etc
> >>>
> >>> also make template
> >>> -> Building template fc25 (logfile: build-logs/template-fc25.log)...
> >>> --> Done.
> >>> /bin/bash: 
> >>> /home/dingo/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-windows//scripts/convert-path.sh:
> >>> Permission denied
> >>> /bin/bash: line 0: pwd: -W: invalid option
> >>> pwd: usage: pwd [-LP]
> >>> make[1]: *** No rule to make target 'update-repo'.  Stop.
> >>> make: *** [Makefile:294: template-local-win7x64] Error 1
> >>
> >> builder-windows?!
> >> I thought you've enabled only fc25 template...
> >
> > i went back and enabled windows and debian templates, ive now disabled
> > windows again and just left debian
> 
> and now -> Building template fc25 (logfile: build-logs/template-fc25.log)...
> --> Done.
> Makefile.generic:28: *** Building packages for jessie not supported by
> any of configured plugins.  Stop.
> make: *** [Makefile:294: template-local-jessie] Error 1

Do you have builder-debian plugin enabled?

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Outback Dingo]

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 6:32 AM, Outback Dingo  wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 6:31 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
>  wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 06:19:34AM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Outback Dingo  
>>> wrote:
>>> > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Outback Dingo  
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Jun 28, 2017 20:16, "Marek Marczykowski-Górecki"
>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>>> >> Hash: SHA256
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 07:58:24PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
>>> >>> successful... now lets see what it does  -rw-r--r--  2 dingo dingo
>>> >>> 1265631232 Jun 28 19:57 Qubes-DVD-x86_64-20170628.iso
>>> >>
>>> >> Hmm, it's a bit small. Should be about 3GB. I guess templates are not
>>> >> included. Have you built them? Check
>>> >> qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch - if its empty, execute
>>> >> "make template", then "make iso" again.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I configured it for only F25 templates it's installing now also during 
>>> >> the
>>> >> install I noticed it only gave me a gui option for xfce not kde I'll know
>>> >> more in 10 mins
>>> > ls 
>>> > qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch/qubes-template-fc25-3.1.0-201706282236.noarch.rpm
>>> >
>>> > it is there, i also noticed when qubes rebooted after install and
>>> > asked for initial configuration it failed to configure basic vms...
>>> > personal, work ... etc etc
>>>
>>> also make template
>>> -> Building template fc25 (logfile: build-logs/template-fc25.log)...
>>> --> Done.
>>> /bin/bash: 
>>> /home/dingo/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-windows//scripts/convert-path.sh:
>>> Permission denied
>>> /bin/bash: line 0: pwd: -W: invalid option
>>> pwd: usage: pwd [-LP]
>>> make[1]: *** No rule to make target 'update-repo'.  Stop.
>>> make: *** [Makefile:294: template-local-win7x64] Error 1
>>
>> builder-windows?!
>> I thought you've enabled only fc25 template...
>
> i went back and enabled windows and debian templates, ive now disabled
> windows again and just left debian

and now -> Building template fc25 (logfile: build-logs/template-fc25.log)...
--> Done.
Makefile.generic:28: *** Building packages for jessie not supported by
any of configured plugins.  Stop.
make: *** [Makefile:294: template-local-jessie] Error 1


>
>>
>> - --
>> Best Regards,
>> Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
>> Invisible Things Lab
>> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
>> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>> Version: GnuPG v2
>>
>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZVNbvAAoJENuP0xzK19csPTIIAItkYku36cT5Fc1c5grmp0cu
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>> =peq6
>> -END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Outback Dingo]

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 6:31 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
 wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 06:19:34AM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Outback Dingo  
>> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Outback Dingo  
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 28, 2017 20:16, "Marek Marczykowski-Górecki"
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> >> Hash: SHA256
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 07:58:24PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
>> >>> successful... now lets see what it does  -rw-r--r--  2 dingo dingo
>> >>> 1265631232 Jun 28 19:57 Qubes-DVD-x86_64-20170628.iso
>> >>
>> >> Hmm, it's a bit small. Should be about 3GB. I guess templates are not
>> >> included. Have you built them? Check
>> >> qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch - if its empty, execute
>> >> "make template", then "make iso" again.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I configured it for only F25 templates it's installing now also during the
>> >> install I noticed it only gave me a gui option for xfce not kde I'll know
>> >> more in 10 mins
>> > ls 
>> > qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch/qubes-template-fc25-3.1.0-201706282236.noarch.rpm
>> >
>> > it is there, i also noticed when qubes rebooted after install and
>> > asked for initial configuration it failed to configure basic vms...
>> > personal, work ... etc etc
>>
>> also make template
>> -> Building template fc25 (logfile: build-logs/template-fc25.log)...
>> --> Done.
>> /bin/bash: 
>> /home/dingo/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-windows//scripts/convert-path.sh:
>> Permission denied
>> /bin/bash: line 0: pwd: -W: invalid option
>> pwd: usage: pwd [-LP]
>> make[1]: *** No rule to make target 'update-repo'.  Stop.
>> make: *** [Makefile:294: template-local-win7x64] Error 1
>
> builder-windows?!
> I thought you've enabled only fc25 template...

i went back and enabled windows and debian templates, ive now disabled
windows again and just left debian

>
> - --
> Best Regards,
> Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> Invisible Things Lab
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v2
>
> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZVNbvAAoJENuP0xzK19csPTIIAItkYku36cT5Fc1c5grmp0cu
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> =peq6
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 06:19:34AM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Outback Dingo  wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Outback Dingo  
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jun 28, 2017 20:16, "Marek Marczykowski-Górecki"
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> >> Hash: SHA256
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 07:58:24PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> >>> successful... now lets see what it does  -rw-r--r--  2 dingo dingo
> >>> 1265631232 Jun 28 19:57 Qubes-DVD-x86_64-20170628.iso
> >>
> >> Hmm, it's a bit small. Should be about 3GB. I guess templates are not
> >> included. Have you built them? Check
> >> qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch - if its empty, execute
> >> "make template", then "make iso" again.
> >>
> >>
> >> I configured it for only F25 templates it's installing now also during the
> >> install I noticed it only gave me a gui option for xfce not kde I'll know
> >> more in 10 mins
> > ls 
> > qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch/qubes-template-fc25-3.1.0-201706282236.noarch.rpm
> >
> > it is there, i also noticed when qubes rebooted after install and
> > asked for initial configuration it failed to configure basic vms...
> > personal, work ... etc etc
> 
> also make template
> -> Building template fc25 (logfile: build-logs/template-fc25.log)...
> --> Done.
> /bin/bash: 
> /home/dingo/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-windows//scripts/convert-path.sh:
> Permission denied
> /bin/bash: line 0: pwd: -W: invalid option
> pwd: usage: pwd [-LP]
> make[1]: *** No rule to make target 'update-repo'.  Stop.
> make: *** [Makefile:294: template-local-win7x64] Error 1

builder-windows?!
I thought you've enabled only fc25 template...

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Version: GnuPG v2

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Outback Dingo]

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Outback Dingo  wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Outback Dingo  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Jun 28, 2017 20:16, "Marek Marczykowski-Górecki"
>>  wrote:
>>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 07:58:24PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
>>> successful... now lets see what it does  -rw-r--r--  2 dingo dingo
>>> 1265631232 Jun 28 19:57 Qubes-DVD-x86_64-20170628.iso
>>
>> Hmm, it's a bit small. Should be about 3GB. I guess templates are not
>> included. Have you built them? Check
>> qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch - if its empty, execute
>> "make template", then "make iso" again.
>>
>>
>> I configured it for only F25 templates it's installing now also during the
>> install I noticed it only gave me a gui option for xfce not kde I'll know
>> more in 10 mins
> ls 
> qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch/qubes-template-fc25-3.1.0-201706282236.noarch.rpm
>
> it is there, i also noticed when qubes rebooted after install and
> asked for initial configuration it failed to configure basic vms...
> personal, work ... etc etc

also make template
-> Building template fc25 (logfile: build-logs/template-fc25.log)...
--> Done.
/bin/bash: 
/home/dingo/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-windows//scripts/convert-path.sh:
Permission denied
/bin/bash: line 0: pwd: -W: invalid option
pwd: usage: pwd [-LP]
make[1]: *** No rule to make target 'update-repo'.  Stop.
make: *** [Makefile:294: template-local-win7x64] Error 1


>
>>
>>
>> - --
>> Best Regards,
>> Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
>> Invisible Things Lab
>> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
>> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>> Version: GnuPG v2
>>
>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZVEbcAAoJENuP0xzK19cs4+IH/RV2Ruj6W9ds+Ex3BAGMirq2
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>> =ga4A
>> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>>
>>

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Outback Dingo]

On Jun 28, 2017 20:16, "Marek Marczykowski-Górecki" <
marma...@invisiblethingslab.com> wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 07:58:24PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> successful... now lets see what it does  -rw-r--r--  2 dingo dingo
> 1265631232 Jun 28 19:57 Qubes-DVD-x86_64-20170628.iso

Hmm, it's a bit small. Should be about 3GB. I guess templates are not
included. Have you built them? Check
qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch - if its empty, execute
"make template", then "make iso" again.


I configured it for only F25 templates it's installing now also during the
install I noticed it only gave me a gui option for xfce not kde I'll know
more in 10 mins


- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

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=ga4A
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 07:58:24PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> successful... now lets see what it does  -rw-r--r--  2 dingo dingo
> 1265631232 Jun 28 19:57 Qubes-DVD-x86_64-20170628.iso

Hmm, it's a bit small. Should be about 3GB. I guess templates are not
included. Have you built them? Check
qubes-src/linux-template-builder/rpm/noarch - if its empty, execute
"make template", then "make iso" again.

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZVEbcAAoJENuP0xzK19cs4+IH/RV2Ruj6W9ds+Ex3BAGMirq2
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=ga4A
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Outback Dingo]

successful... now lets see what it does  -rw-r--r--  2 dingo dingo
1265631232 Jun 28 19:57 Qubes-DVD-x86_64-20170628.iso

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
 wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 01:04:12AM +0200, Wojtek Porczyk wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 12:07:04AM +0200, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
>> > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:41:38PM +0200, Wojtek Porczyk wrote:
>> > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 04:40:53PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
>> > > > Does Anyone have a recent build iso of Qubes 4.0 I can try, Ive tried
>> > > > building it unsuccessfully drama in another thread. I just want to
>> > > > verify my networking issues are resolved.
>> > >
>> > > I don't think it exists. The one I'm currently working off has 
>> > > non-installable
>> > > templates (rpms from R3.2 can't be used on R4.0 because of some problems 
>> > > with
>> > > post-installation, so I run the internal tools more or less manually) and
>> > > there is no Manager.
>> >
>> > Wojtek, I've already uploaded qubes-template-fedora-25 to templates-itl
>> > for R4.0. And unless you want to use grub installed there, it works ;)
>>
>> Oooh, and 
>> https://ftp.qubes-os.org/~marmarek/Qubes-DVD-x86_64-20170615.iso{,.asc}
>> could be usable? :P
>
> Depends on definition of "usable". One issue is that the image include
> wrong template (with R3.2 repository definitions)...
>
> - --
> Best Regards,
> Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> Invisible Things Lab
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v2
>
> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZVDqdAAoJENuP0xzK19csbr4H/2xqFfOZ0taIJ0sMYdUyu4jj
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> =sRL1
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 01:04:12AM +0200, Wojtek Porczyk wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 12:07:04AM +0200, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:41:38PM +0200, Wojtek Porczyk wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 04:40:53PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> > > > Does Anyone have a recent build iso of Qubes 4.0 I can try, Ive tried
> > > > building it unsuccessfully drama in another thread. I just want to
> > > > verify my networking issues are resolved.
> > > 
> > > I don't think it exists. The one I'm currently working off has 
> > > non-installable
> > > templates (rpms from R3.2 can't be used on R4.0 because of some problems 
> > > with
> > > post-installation, so I run the internal tools more or less manually) and
> > > there is no Manager.
> > 
> > Wojtek, I've already uploaded qubes-template-fedora-25 to templates-itl
> > for R4.0. And unless you want to use grub installed there, it works ;)
> 
> Oooh, and 
> https://ftp.qubes-os.org/~marmarek/Qubes-DVD-x86_64-20170615.iso{,.asc}
> could be usable? :P

Depends on definition of "usable". One issue is that the image include
wrong template (with R3.2 repository definitions)...

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Wojtek Porczyk]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 12:07:04AM +0200, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:41:38PM +0200, Wojtek Porczyk wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 04:40:53PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> > > Does Anyone have a recent build iso of Qubes 4.0 I can try, Ive tried
> > > building it unsuccessfully drama in another thread. I just want to
> > > verify my networking issues are resolved.
> > 
> > I don't think it exists. The one I'm currently working off has 
> > non-installable
> > templates (rpms from R3.2 can't be used on R4.0 because of some problems 
> > with
> > post-installation, so I run the internal tools more or less manually) and
> > there is no Manager.
> 
> Wojtek, I've already uploaded qubes-template-fedora-25 to templates-itl
> for R4.0. And unless you want to use grub installed there, it works ;)

Oooh, and 
https://ftp.qubes-os.org/~marmarek/Qubes-DVD-x86_64-20170615.iso{,.asc}
could be usable? :P


- -- 
pozdrawiam / best regards   _.-._
Wojtek Porczyk   .-^'   '^-.
Invisible Things Lab |'-.-^-.-'|
 |  |   |  |
 I do not fear computers,|  '-.-'  |
 I fear lack of them.'-._ :  ,-'
-- Isaac Asimov `^-^-_>
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:41:38PM +0200, Wojtek Porczyk wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 04:40:53PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> > Does Anyone have a recent build iso of Qubes 4.0 I can try, Ive tried
> > building it unsuccessfully drama in another thread. I just want to
> > verify my networking issues are resolved.
> 
> I don't think it exists. The one I'm currently working off has non-installable
> templates (rpms from R3.2 can't be used on R4.0 because of some problems with
> post-installation, so I run the internal tools more or less manually) and
> there is no Manager.

Wojtek, I've already uploaded qubes-template-fedora-25 to templates-itl
for R4.0. And unless you want to use grub installed there, it works ;)

> And bugs. Not much, but some annoying.
> 
> Looks like we're going to deliver on Andrew's promise with a slight delay.

As always...

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Wojtek Porczyk]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 04:40:53PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> Does Anyone have a recent build iso of Qubes 4.0 I can try, Ive tried
> building it unsuccessfully drama in another thread. I just want to
> verify my networking issues are resolved.

I don't think it exists. The one I'm currently working off has non-installable
templates (rpms from R3.2 can't be used on R4.0 because of some problems with
post-installation, so I run the internal tools more or less manually) and
there is no Manager.

And bugs. Not much, but some annoying.

Looks like we're going to deliver on Andrew's promise with a slight delay.


- -- 
pozdrawiam / best regards   _.-._
Wojtek Porczyk   .-^'   '^-.
Invisible Things Lab |'-.-^-.-'|
 |  |   |  |
 I do not fear computers,|  '-.-'  |
 I fear lack of them.'-._ :  ,-'
-- Isaac Asimov `^-^-_>
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

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-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 built from git fails

[Wojtek Porczyk]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 10:52:33PM +0200, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:31:48AM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> > still a struggle

It wasn't easy to write, so why should it be easy to compile.

/s


- -- 
pozdrawiam / best regards   _.-._
Wojtek Porczyk   .-^'   '^-.
Invisible Things Lab |'-.-^-.-'|
 |  |   |  |
 I do not fear computers,|  '-.-'  |
 I fear lack of them.'-._ :  ,-'
-- Isaac Asimov `^-^-_>
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

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-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 built from git fails

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:31:48AM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 7:03 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
>  wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA256
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 06:53:30AM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> >> -> Installing core RPM packages...
> >> /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.UBUWVQ: line 9: grep: command not found
> >> /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.UBUWVQ: line 16: grep: command not found
> >> Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory
> >> Failed to set locale, defaulting to C
> >> Package dnf-1.1.10-6.fc25.noarch is already installed, skipping.
> >> Package dnf-plugins-core-0.1.21-5.fc25.noarch is already installed, 
> >> skipping.
> >> Running in chroot, ignoring request.
> >> groupadd: GID '0' already exists
> >> make[1]: *** 
> >> [/home/dingo/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-fedora/Makefile.fedora:81:
> >> /home/dingo/qubes-builder/chr
> >> oot-fc25/home/user/.prepared_base] Error 1
> >> make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/dingo/qubes-builder'
> >> make: *** [Makefile:221: vmm-xen-dom0] Error 1
> >> [root@localhost qubes-builder]#
> >
> > Run the build as normal user (it will use sudo where really necessary).
> >
> 
> still a struggle
> -> Building meta-packages (rpm_spec/qubes-vm-meta-packages.spec) for
> fc25 vm (logfile: build-logs/meta-packages-vm
> -fc25.log)
> --> Done:
>  
> qubes-src/meta-packages/pkgs/fc25/noarch/qubes-repo-contrib-4.0.0-1.fc25.noarch.rpm
>  
> qubes-src/meta-packages/pkgs/fc25/noarch/qubes-vm-dependencies-4.0.0-1.fc25.noarch.rpm
>  
> qubes-src/meta-packages/pkgs/fc25/noarch/qubes-vm-recommended-4.0.0-1.fc25.noarch.rpm
> ln: failed to access
> 'pkgs/fc25/noarch/qubes-desktop-linux-common-3.2.0-1.fc25.noarch.rpm':
> No such file or direct
> ory
> ln: failed to access
> 'pkgs/fc25/noarch/qubes-menus-3.2.0-1.fc25.noarch.rpm': No such file
> or directory
> make[1]: *** 
> [/home/dingo/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-fedora/Makefile.fedora:166:
> update-repo-do] Error 1
> make: *** [Makefile:294: template-local-fc25] Error 1

Oh, looks like order in COMPONENTS is wrong. Put desktop-linux-common
before linux-template-builder.

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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[qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0

[Outback Dingo]

Does Anyone have a recent build iso of Qubes 4.0 I can try, Ive tried
building it unsuccessfully drama in another thread. I just want to
verify my networking issues are resolved.

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 built from git fails

[Outback Dingo]

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 7:03 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
 wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 06:53:30AM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
>> -> Installing core RPM packages...
>> /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.UBUWVQ: line 9: grep: command not found
>> /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.UBUWVQ: line 16: grep: command not found
>> Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory
>> Failed to set locale, defaulting to C
>> Package dnf-1.1.10-6.fc25.noarch is already installed, skipping.
>> Package dnf-plugins-core-0.1.21-5.fc25.noarch is already installed, skipping.
>> Running in chroot, ignoring request.
>> groupadd: GID '0' already exists
>> make[1]: *** 
>> [/home/dingo/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-fedora/Makefile.fedora:81:
>> /home/dingo/qubes-builder/chr
>> oot-fc25/home/user/.prepared_base] Error 1
>> make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/dingo/qubes-builder'
>> make: *** [Makefile:221: vmm-xen-dom0] Error 1
>> [root@localhost qubes-builder]#
>
> Run the build as normal user (it will use sudo where really necessary).
>

still a struggle
-> Building meta-packages (rpm_spec/qubes-vm-meta-packages.spec) for
fc25 vm (logfile: build-logs/meta-packages-vm
-fc25.log)
--> Done:
 
qubes-src/meta-packages/pkgs/fc25/noarch/qubes-repo-contrib-4.0.0-1.fc25.noarch.rpm
 
qubes-src/meta-packages/pkgs/fc25/noarch/qubes-vm-dependencies-4.0.0-1.fc25.noarch.rpm
 
qubes-src/meta-packages/pkgs/fc25/noarch/qubes-vm-recommended-4.0.0-1.fc25.noarch.rpm
ln: failed to access
'pkgs/fc25/noarch/qubes-desktop-linux-common-3.2.0-1.fc25.noarch.rpm':
No such file or direct
ory
ln: failed to access
'pkgs/fc25/noarch/qubes-menus-3.2.0-1.fc25.noarch.rpm': No such file
or directory
make[1]: *** 
[/home/dingo/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-fedora/Makefile.fedora:166:
update-repo-do] Error 1
make: *** [Makefile:294: template-local-fc25] Error 1



> - --
> Best Regards,
> Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> Invisible Things Lab
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v2
>
> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZU4zxAAoJENuP0xzK19csp1wH/15aOLAcrJTwZjxoM5JzU0f8
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> =WL0+
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 built from git fails

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 06:53:30AM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote:
> -> Installing core RPM packages...
> /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.UBUWVQ: line 9: grep: command not found
> /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.UBUWVQ: line 16: grep: command not found
> Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory
> Failed to set locale, defaulting to C
> Package dnf-1.1.10-6.fc25.noarch is already installed, skipping.
> Package dnf-plugins-core-0.1.21-5.fc25.noarch is already installed, skipping.
> Running in chroot, ignoring request.
> groupadd: GID '0' already exists
> make[1]: *** 
> [/home/dingo/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-fedora/Makefile.fedora:81:
> /home/dingo/qubes-builder/chr
> oot-fc25/home/user/.prepared_base] Error 1
> make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/dingo/qubes-builder'
> make: *** [Makefile:221: vmm-xen-dom0] Error 1
> [root@localhost qubes-builder]#

Run the build as normal user (it will use sudo where really necessary).

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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[qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 built from git fails

[Outback Dingo]

-> Installing core RPM packages...
/var/tmp/rpm-tmp.UBUWVQ: line 9: grep: command not found
/var/tmp/rpm-tmp.UBUWVQ: line 16: grep: command not found
Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory
Failed to set locale, defaulting to C
Package dnf-1.1.10-6.fc25.noarch is already installed, skipping.
Package dnf-plugins-core-0.1.21-5.fc25.noarch is already installed, skipping.
Running in chroot, ignoring request.
groupadd: GID '0' already exists
make[1]: *** 
[/home/dingo/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-fedora/Makefile.fedora:81:
/home/dingo/qubes-builder/chr
oot-fc25/home/user/.prepared_base] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/dingo/qubes-builder'
make: *** [Makefile:221: vmm-xen-dom0] Error 1
[root@localhost qubes-builder]#

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 development status update

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Mon, Dec 05, 2016 at 03:55:45AM +, Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) wrote:
> On 12/05/2016 02:50 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> >
> > There are also still a couple of rough edges during installation/first
> > run. For
> > example "LVM thin" storage should be used, but currently it needs to be
> > selected manually (using custom partitioning option). And depending on
> > the disk
> > layout, it may require creating those partitions manually.
> >
> 
> Honestly, it would be so much better if Qubes OS did NOT use LVM, and
> used btrfs or ZFS instead.  LVM has no protection whatsoever against
> data corruption.  I hope the APIs are modular such that there is an
> implementable interface for storage backends which does not assume LVM
> is the only thing that underlies the system.  As a person using Qubes OS
> on top of ZFS, I would find myself in quite some trouble if that was not
> the case.

Yes, new modules can be easily added. You can see API documentation in
linked github issue (will be moved to qubes-doc later). Also adding
fs-based module should be quite easy, because we have also 'file'
storage module, for handling file based VM images. Should be easy to
build btrfs or zfs module based on it.

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 development status update

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Sun, Dec 04, 2016 at 11:19:41PM -0800, Vít Šesták wrote:
> I am interested about the implications of using HVMs. I know about the 
> introduced need of some CPU features, some changes under-the-hood and 
> potentiially better compatibility. But I am interested in some others:
> 
> 1. What will change about performance and memory-usage
> characteristics? I believe there will be just small (and maybe even
> positive) performance difference for CPU/RAM-related tasks. The
> difference for I/O will probably be rather low if any. There might be
> some differences for PCI latency, but I am unsure about them. Start of
> a VM will probably take slightly longer, because of the need of the
> stubdom. RAM usage will be also somewhat (how much?) higher because of
> the stubdom.

Your intuition is right. As for memory usage, stubdomain use about 50MB,
so not that much...

> 2. Security implications. When attacker has a QEMU 0day, HVM fails as
> a counter-measure against PV-related vulnerabilities. In such case,
> the attack scenario is even larger (both PV-only and HVM-only Xen
> vulnerabilities can be used).

We'll make this stubdomain as limited as possible, but still, some
things are unavoidable. 

> I remember you mentioned an idea about
> killing the stubdom in an early phase of the boot (probably even
> before mounting /rw), which would somehow mitigate some (most?)
> attacks. As a nice side-effect, it would also lower the memory usage.
> What's the current state of this countermeasure?

That would be nice indeed, but we haven't tried it yet. 

- -- 
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 development status update

[Holger Levsen]

Hi Marek,

thanks for sharing this information. I found it quite interesting!
(and wouldnt mind to see such posts every 3 months or so…)


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cheers,
Holger

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[qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 development status update

[Vít Šesták]

I am interested about the implications of using HVMs. I know about the 
introduced need of some CPU features, some changes under-the-hood and 
potentiially better compatibility. But I am interested in some others:

1. What will change about performance and memory-usage characteristics? I 
believe there will be just small (and maybe even positive) performance 
difference for CPU/RAM-related tasks. The difference for I/O will probably be 
rather low if any. There might be some differences for PCI latency, but I am 
unsure about them. Start of a VM will probably take slightly longer, because of 
the need of the stubdom. RAM usage will be also somewhat (how much?) higher 
because of the stubdom.

2. Security implications. When attacker has a QEMU 0day, HVM fails as a 
counter-measure against PV-related vulnerabilities. In such case, the attack 
scenario is even larger (both PV-only and HVM-only Xen vulnerabilities can be 
used). I remember you mentioned an idea about killing the stubdom in an early 
phase of the boot (probably even before mounting /rw), which would somehow 
mitigate some (most?) attacks. As a nice side-effect, it would also lower the 
memory usage. What's the current state of this countermeasure? 

Regards,
Vít Šesták 'v6ak'

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Re: [qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 development status update

[Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)]

On 12/05/2016 02:50 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
>
> There are also still a couple of rough edges during installation/first
> run. For
> example "LVM thin" storage should be used, but currently it needs to be
> selected manually (using custom partitioning option). And depending on
> the disk
> layout, it may require creating those partitions manually.
>

Honestly, it would be so much better if Qubes OS did NOT use LVM, and
used btrfs or ZFS instead.  LVM has no protection whatsoever against
data corruption.  I hope the APIs are modular such that there is an
implementable interface for storage backends which does not assume LVM
is the only thing that underlies the system.  As a person using Qubes OS
on top of ZFS, I would find myself in quite some trouble if that was not
the case.

-- 
Rudd-O
http://rudd-o.com/

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[qubes-devel] Qubes 4.0 development status update

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Hi,

Most of the features of Qubes 4.0 are done, but there are few more things to do
be fully useable. Below is (not so) quick summary.

0. (Mostly) rewrite of Qubes core management scripts.

Over time, our codebase grew significantly, and the focus was on delivering
features and refining overall architecture. This allowed for steady growth of
Qubes OS as both the system and the community. However less thought was given to
code quality and practices. Also, the code documentation was nonexistent.
So, we've decided to rewrite this part, having modularization and extensibility
in mind when designing new code. 

The work have started before Qubes 3.0 release by Wojtek and initially was
scheduled to land there (hence the name "core3" still used internally in some
places). But finalizing it turned out to be much more time consuming than
expected and in consequence this task was deferred to Qubes 4.0.

Today I can say that the core part of it is done. Every major functionality
is already (re-)implemented[5]. And thanks to the new, much easier to extend
code, we've already implemented few cool new features:
 - multiple DispVM support[6]
 - new storage API[7], allowing instant VM cloning, keeping arbitrary number of
   volume revisions (somehow extended qvm-revert-template-changes feature) and
   possibly more in the future
 - improved firewall internal interface[8], allowing more rules, not interfering
   with other firewall tools[9]
 - and many more

1. Moving away from PV[1].

Initially we wanted to move to PVHv2 (aka HVMlite) domains, which are just like
HVM, but without qemu. But unfortunately it turned out PVHv2 is still far from
complete[2], so we've decided to go with "normal" HVM, with qemu in (still PV)
stubdomain and move to PVHv2 when it will be complete. But for Qubes 4.0
release, update qemu to more recent version - instead of the ancient,
unmaintained fork of it, from early Xen days. Mostly to improve
interoperability (see [4] for example problem) and some missing features in old
version (direct kernel boot, just to name one). Unfortunately only that old
qemu fork is supported in upstream Xen stubdomain and updating it there isn't a
priority to the Xen project[3] (the message is year old but nothing really 
changed
since then). So, we've decided to do it ourself, going Linux-based stubdomain
way (see [3] for other options). 

This task is handled by HW42, the current status is that the majority of work is
done (it's bootable, most of things just work), but still have issues. For
example PCI passthrough doesn't work yet, which is essential for NetVM...
The current code referenced below still use PV domains by default.

2. Qubes manager

Since the internal API have changed, Qubes Manager also require adjustments.
And since the code quality degraded here too and its overall design was quite
poor[10], we've decided to throw it away and write new one, improving its
interface at the same time[11]. While there was some progress on this, it
turned out to be too much work to finish it without delaying Qubes 4.0 even
more. So, we've fall back to simpler idea: replace its main window (which was
the most horrible part) with a new one[12], as nice applet, then mostly reuse 
other
parts of the old manager code (like settings window, backup/restore wizards 
etc).

This task is handled by Kalkin. The current state is that most of frontend work
is done, but it still needs to be plugged into new backend API. See [12] for 
details.

3. VM Admin API

While working on connecting GUI parts and new command line tools, it turned out
it will be easier if we'd implement administration API[13] right now - not
delay it until Qubes 4.1. We've designed it the way to allow later expose part
of it to semi-trusted management VM - for example allowing it to manage
_subset_ of VMs. For now, it is mostly to have just one entity (qubesd - qubes
daemon) which handle reads and writes to /var/lib/qubes/qubes.xml and avoid all
the problems with access synchronization.

This task is handled by Wojtek. The current state is protocol design is done,
but it wasn't implemented yet. The current code use racy method of accessing
qubes.xml and may occasionally result in failure on some VM modification. We've
added an band aid to detect such situation and fail the operation, instead of
breaking qubes.xml. This is just temporary solution, until said administration
API got implemented.

4. Summary, the code

Besides the above listed things, it is possible to compile and run what's
already done for Qubes 4.0. You can use qubes-builder[14] with the config
linked below. In addition to the above list, there are plenty of
minor issues, some of them may result in data loss. So, at this point I would
not recommend using it for anything important. I think it's fair to name it
"technology preview 2".

There are also still a couple of rough edges during installation/first run. For
example "LVM thin" storage