[ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore Surveyed Position
Hi all! I configured a Motorola Oncore UT+ unit on a FreeBSD machine using ntpd 4.2.6p3 (ONCORE and SHHMEM enabled during configuration). If any Oncore user could help me I would appreciate. I am running with the following ntp.oncore.0 file oncore# cat /etc/ntp.oncore.0 MODE 2 SHMEM /etc/oncore.0 TRAIM YES DELAY 25 NS CLEAR MASK 0 and ntp.conf server 127.127.30.0 server ntp02.oal.ul.pt iburst noselect server ntp04.oal.ul.pt iburst noselect server router7.lisboa.fccn.pt iburst noselect server router15.porto.fccn.pt iburst noselect statistics loopstats statsdir /var/log/ntp/ filegen peerstats file peers type day link enable filegen loopstats file loops type day link enable filegen clockstats file clocks type day link enable Here's the startup information (from /var/log/ntp/clocks) 55810 28040.976 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: ONCORE DRIVER -- CONFIGURING 55810 28040.976 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: state = ONCORE_NO_IDEA 55810 28040.977 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: ONCORE: incomplete data on /etc/ntp.oncore.0 55810 28040.977 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Input mode = 2 55810 28040.977 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Initializing timing to Clear. 55810 28040.978 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: SHMEM (size = 3628) is CONFIGURED and available as /etc/oncore.0 55810 28040.978 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: state = ONCORE_CHECK_ID 55810 28041.619 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: @@Cj 55810 28041.619 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: COPYRIGHT 1991-1997 MOTOROLA INC. 55810 28041.619 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: SFTW P/N # 98-P36848P 55810 28041.619 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: SOFTWARE VER # 2 55810 28041.619 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: SOFTWARE REV # 2 55810 28041.620 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: SOFTWARE DATE APR 24 1998 55810 28041.620 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: MODEL #R5122U1152 55810 28041.620 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: HWDR P/N # 5 55810 28041.620 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: SERIAL # R08OTB 55810 28041.620 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: MANUFACTUR DATE 0F10 55810 28041.620 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: 55810 28041.620 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: This looks like an Oncore UT with version 2.2 firmware. 55810 28041.620 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Channels = 8, TRAIM = ON 55810 28041.620 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: state = ONCORE_CHECK_CHAN 55810 28046.165 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Input says chan = -1 55810 28046.165 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Model # says chan = 8 55810 28046.165 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Testing says chan = 8 55810 28046.165 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Usingchan = 8 55810 28046.165 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: state = ONCORE_HAVE_CHAN 55810 28047.617 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: state = ONCORE_TEST_SENT 55810 28055.640 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: GPS antenna: OK 55810 28055.640 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: state = ONCORE_INIT 55810 28057.973 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Oncore: Resend @@Cj 55810 28058.553 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: state = ONCORE_ALMANAC 55810 28061.039 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Cable delay is set to 25 ns 55810 28061.042 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Satellite mask angle set to 0 degrees 55810 28062.965 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Have now loaded an ALMANAC 55810 28062.965 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: state = ONCORE_RUN 55810 28062.965 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: SSstate = ONCORE_SS_TESTING 55810 28063.039 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: ONCORE: Detected TRAIM, TRAIM = ON 55810 28063.039 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Input says TRAIM = 1 55810 28063.039 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Model # says TRAIM = 1 55810 28063.039 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Testing says TRAIM = 1 55810 28063.039 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: UsingTRAIM = 1 55810 28064.065 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Initiating hardware 3D site survey 55810 28064.065 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: SSstate = ONCORE_SS_HW 55810 28064.072 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: PPS Offset is set to 0 ns 55810 28064.099 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Satellite mask angle is 0 degrees 55810 28088.234 127.127.30.0 3524284088.000133044 2011 249 7 48 8 8 rstat 10 dop 4.4 nsat 10,4 traim 1,0,1 sigma 63 neg-sawtooth 18 sat 00850808 55810 28089.247 127.127.30.0 3524284089.000129588 2011 249 7 48 9 9 rstat 10 dop 4.4 nsat 10,4 traim 1,0,1 sigma 63 neg-sawtooth -20 sat 00850808 55810 28090.234 127.127.30.0 3524284090.000121930 2011 249 7 48 10 10 rstat 10 dop 4.4 nsat 10,4 traim 1,0,1 sigma 63 neg-sawtooth -37 sat 00550808 55810 28091.233 127.127.30.0 3524284091.000120534 2011 249 7 48 11 11 rstat 10 dop 4.4 nsat 10,4 traim 1,0,1 sigma 63 neg-sawtooth 49 sat 00550808 My questions 1. I thought that I would only get fixes after survey is done? The Oncore is surveying but it's passing clock information to ntp. Is this right? 2. When surveying finishes (ONCORE_SS_DONE) where can I get the surveyed position to save it to /etc/ntp.oncore.0? What is the best procedure? I don't want to survey every time I power up the unit... (the unit has no backup power) 3. At the moment, the unit is still disciplining my local clock oncore# ntpq -p -c rv -c as assID=0 status=0415 leap_none, sync_uhf_clock, 1 event, event_clock_reset, version=ntpd 4.2.6p3@1.2290-o Fri Sep 2 18:01:50 UTC 2011 (1), processor=i386,
Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore Surveyed Position
Miguel Gonçalves wrote: 2. When surveying finishes (ONCORE_SS_DONE) where can I get the surveyed position to save it to /etc/ntp.oncore.0? What is the best procedure? I don't want to survey every time I power up the unit... (the unit has no backup power) Afair the position got written to the log file at that point, then you only have to copy it into the config file and change mode to use surveyed position. It is 10+ years since I last needed to do this, so I might be mis-remembering, in which case you might find the (raw) info you need in the clockstats log? Terje -- - Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore Surveyed Position
Hi Terje! Thanks for your reply. I switched again to mode 4 and started again to see if I missed something. I believe I'll only have to wait 1 seconds = 2 hours and 46 minutes... not much. :-) Unfortunatelly clockstats doesn't show position, only time. I believe this is because it's in position lock (0D?) mode. Here's a sample: 55810 40276.220 127.127.30.0 3524296275.57838 2011 249 11 11 16 15 rstat 08 dop 0.0 nsat 10,2 traim 1,0,1 sigma 77 neg-sawtooth -24 sat 3580 By the way... I was looking at the clockstats file and noticed that when I switched to mode 4 as I said earlier I got this 55810 40560.366 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Loading Posn from SHMEM 55810 40560.367 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Setting Posn and Time after Loading Almanac 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Posn: 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Lat = N 41.1745319deg,Long = W 8.6560764deg,Alt = 146.72m (481.36ft) GPS 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Lat = N 41deg 10.4719m, Long = W 8deg 39.36458m, Alt = 146.72m ( 481.36ft) GPS 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Lat = N 41deg 10m 28.32s, Long = W 8deg 39m 21.88s, Alt = 146.72m ( 481.36ft) GPS 55810 40564.365 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Waiting for Almanac 55810 40567.365 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Have now loaded an ALMANAC 55810 40567.365 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: state = ONCORE_RUN It seems this is my location... :-) Now you know where I live! :-) So the position is stored in the shared memory and when I reset the unit (mode 4) it uses the position stored in there. Anyone help care to comment this? Cheers, Miguel On 6 September 2011 12:33, Terje Mathisen terje.mathisen at tmsw.no@ ntp.org wrote: Miguel Gonçalves wrote: 2. When surveying finishes (ONCORE_SS_DONE) where can I get the surveyed position to save it to /etc/ntp.oncore.0? What is the best procedure? I don't want to survey every time I power up the unit... (the unit has no backup power) Afair the position got written to the log file at that point, then you only have to copy it into the config file and change mode to use surveyed position. It is 10+ years since I last needed to do this, so I might be mis-remembering, in which case you might find the (raw) info you need in the clockstats log? Terje -- - Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching __**_ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/**questionshttp://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore Surveyed Position
On 2011-09-06, Miguel Gon?alves m...@miguelgoncalves.com wrote: I switched again to mode 4 and started again to see if I missed something. I believe I'll only have to wait 1 seconds = 2 hours and 46 minutes... not much. :-) Unfortunatelly clockstats doesn't show position, only time. I believe this is because it's in position lock (0D?) mode. Here's a sample: By the way... I was looking at the clockstats file and noticed that when I switched to mode 4 as I said earlier I got this 55810 40560.366 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Loading Posn from SHMEM 55810 40560.367 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Setting Posn and Time after Loading Almanac 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Posn: 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Lat = N 41.1745319deg,Long = W 8.6560764deg,Alt = 146.72m (481.36ft) GPS 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Lat = N 41deg 10.4719m, Long = W 8deg 39.36458m, Alt = 146.72m ( 481.36ft) GPS 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Lat = N 41deg 10m 28.32s, Long = W 8deg 39m 21.88s, Alt = 146.72m ( 481.36ft) GPS 55810 40564.365 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Waiting for Almanac 55810 40567.365 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Have now loaded an ALMANAC 55810 40567.365 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: state = ONCORE_RUN It seems this is my location... :-) Now you know where I live! :-) So the position is stored in the shared memory and when I reset the unit (mode 4) it uses the position stored in there. Anyone help care to comment this? This is from the refclock_oncore.c file. /* * If we don't find any then we don't have the cable delay or PPS * offset and we choose MODE (4) below. * * Five Choices for MODE *(0) ONCORE is preinitialized, don't do anything to change it. *nb, DON'T set 0D mode, DON'T set Delay, position... *(1) NO RESET, Read Position, delays from data file, lock it in, *go to 0D mode. *(2) NO RESET, Read Delays from data file, do SITE SURVEY to get *position, lock this in, go to 0D mode. *(3) HARD RESET, Read Position, delays from data file, lock it *in, go to 0D mode. *(4) HARD RESET, Read Delays from data file, do SITE SURVEY to *get position, lock this in, go to 0D mode. * NB. If a POSITION is specified in the config file with * mode=(2,4) [SITE SURVEY] then this position is set as the INITIAL position of the * ONCORE. This can reduce the time to first fix. * --- * Note that an Oncore UT without a battery backup retains NO information if it is power cycled, with a Battery Backup it remembers the almanac, etc. For an Oncore VP, there is an eeprom that will contain this data, along with the option of Battery Backup. * So a UT without Battery Backup is equivalent to doing a HARD RESET on each power cycle, since there is nowhere to store the data. If we open one or the other of the files, we read it looking for MODE, LAT, LON, (HT, HTGPS, HTMSL), DELAY, OFFSET, ASSERT, CLEAR, HARDPPS, STATUS, POSN3D, POSN2D, CHAN, TRAIM then initialize using method MODE. For Mode = (1,3) all of (LAT, LON, HT) must be present or mode reverts to (2,4). */ Your ntp.oncore.0 file will need to list your location: This is from my file HARDPPS PPS_CAPTUREASSERT MODE 1 LON -84.2017844758 LAT 40.7762210511 HT 223.445 DELAY 92.1 ns This skips the receiver reset and loads my coordinates. Once the receiver has a valid almanac, it will serve time. I am also using FreeBSD, but don't use SHMEM. You should be able to just link your serial port to the correct device using devfs.conf oncore.pps.0 -cuau0 oncore.serial.0 -cuau0 Tom -- Public Keys: PGP KeyID = 0x5F22FDC1 GnuPG KeyID = 0x620836CF ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore Surveyed Position
There is software that works with the Oncore GPS series. Called SynTAC It is Windows-only but it seems to run on my Linux system under VMware Player. You can place the UT+ into survey mode and set other parameters. It has a graphic Sat. display. The page says the licensee expires in 30 days but but, it seems not to. http://www.synergy-gps.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=161Itemid=132 2011/9/6 Miguel Gonçalves m...@miguelgoncalves.com: Hi Terje! Thanks for your reply. I switched again to mode 4 and started again to see if I missed something. I believe I'll only have to wait 1 seconds = 2 hours and 46 minutes... not much. :-) Unfortunatelly clockstats doesn't show position, only time. I believe this is because it's in position lock (0D?) mode. Here's a sample: 55810 40276.220 127.127.30.0 3524296275.57838 2011 249 11 11 16 15 rstat 08 dop 0.0 nsat 10,2 traim 1,0,1 sigma 77 neg-sawtooth -24 sat 3580 By the way... I was looking at the clockstats file and noticed that when I switched to mode 4 as I said earlier I got this 55810 40560.366 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Loading Posn from SHMEM 55810 40560.367 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Setting Posn and Time after Loading Almanac 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Posn: 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Lat = N 41.1745319deg, Long = W 8.6560764deg, Alt = 146.72m (481.36ft) GPS 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Lat = N 41deg 10.4719m, Long = W 8deg 39.36458m, Alt = 146.72m ( 481.36ft) GPS 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Lat = N 41deg 10m 28.32s, Long = W 8deg 39m 21.88s, Alt = 146.72m ( 481.36ft) GPS 55810 40564.365 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Waiting for Almanac 55810 40567.365 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Have now loaded an ALMANAC 55810 40567.365 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: state = ONCORE_RUN It seems this is my location... :-) Now you know where I live! :-) So the position is stored in the shared memory and when I reset the unit (mode 4) it uses the position stored in there. Anyone help care to comment this? Cheers, Miguel On 6 September 2011 12:33, Terje Mathisen terje.mathisen at tmsw.no@ ntp.org wrote: Miguel Gonçalves wrote: 2. When surveying finishes (ONCORE_SS_DONE) where can I get the surveyed position to save it to /etc/ntp.oncore.0? What is the best procedure? I don't want to survey every time I power up the unit... (the unit has no backup power) Afair the position got written to the log file at that point, then you only have to copy it into the config file and change mode to use surveyed position. It is 10+ years since I last needed to do this, so I might be mis-remembering, in which case you might find the (raw) info you need in the clockstats log? Terje -- - Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching __**_ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/**questionshttp://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] ntpd keep trying preferred servers?
Howdy! I have the following lines in my ntp.conf (on Debian Lenny): server ext-server-1 prefer server ext-server-2 prefer server 127.127.1.1 fudge 127.127.1.1 stratum 12 I am running in a situation where one or both of the external servers may not be accessible. This machine is serving as a time server for other Debian servers behind our firewall. I set up the server 127.127.1.1 line so that in case the external servers are not available, it will sync to itself so that it will always talk to the other clients on our network. When ntpd was started, the external servers were not available, so ntpd sync'd to itself. Now, the external servers have become available, but ntpd hasn't noticed. (It's been a few days.) Is there a way I can tell ntpd to keep checking for the preferred servers? Here is the output of ntpq: $ ntpq -pcrv assID=0 status=0544 leap_none, sync_local_proto, 4 events, event_peer/ strat_chg, version=ntpd 4.2.4p4@1.1520-o Sun Nov 22 16:14:34 UTC 2009 (1), processor=x86_64, system=Linux/2.6.26-2-amd64, leap=00, stratum=13, precision=-20, rootdelay=0.000, rootdispersion=11.015, peer=40390, refid=LOCAL(1), reftime=d210b0f9.3c931f02 Tue, Sep 6 2011 14:47:21.236, poll=10, clock=d210b0ff.5f77289a Tue, Sep 6 2011 14:47:27.372, state=4, offset=0.000, frequency=0.000, jitter=0.001, noise=0.001, stability=0.000, tai=0 remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == *LOCAL(1).LOCL. 12 l6 64 3770.000 0.000 0.001 rds110.1.3.214 u 538 1024 3770.148 -0.474 0.065 rds210.1.3.214 u 892 1024 3770.138 -1.210 0.099 Thanks!! Seth ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore Surveyed Position
Hi! Thanks for the help! My /etc/ntp.oncore.0 file is this (I disabled SHMEM) MODE 1 LAT 41.1745319 LON -8.6560764 HT 146.72 M HARDPPS #SHMEM /etc/oncore.0 TRAIM YES DELAY 25 NS CLEAR MASK 0 I'm getting one strange thing: oncore# ntpq -p remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == xGPS_ONCORE(0) .GPS.0 l4 16 3770.000 -15045. 2.016 canon.inria.fr .GPSi. 1 u 69 64 377 49.013 -15043. 9.609 ptbtime1.ptb.de .PTB.1 u 52 64 377 66.784 -15043. 8.614 ntp.inrim.it.CTD.1 u 56 64 377 52.119 -15043. 8.875 The GPS is off by 15 secs. Is this the GPS-UTC delta? Why is this happening? Can anyone help? Thanks! Cheers, Miguel On 6 September 2011 15:31, Thomas Laus lau...@acm.org wrote: On 2011-09-06, Miguel Gon?alves m...@miguelgoncalves.com wrote: I switched again to mode 4 and started again to see if I missed something. I believe I'll only have to wait 1 seconds = 2 hours and 46 minutes... not much. :-) Unfortunatelly clockstats doesn't show position, only time. I believe this is because it's in position lock (0D?) mode. Here's a sample: By the way... I was looking at the clockstats file and noticed that when I switched to mode 4 as I said earlier I got this 55810 40560.366 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Loading Posn from SHMEM 55810 40560.367 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Setting Posn and Time after Loading Almanac 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Posn: 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Lat = N 41.1745319deg,Long = W 8.6560764deg,Alt = 146.72m (481.36ft) GPS 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Lat = N 41deg 10.4719m, Long = W 8deg 39.36458m, Alt = 146.72m ( 481.36ft) GPS 55810 40562.091 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Lat = N 41deg 10m 28.32s, Long = W 8deg 39m 21.88s, Alt = 146.72m ( 481.36ft) GPS 55810 40564.365 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Waiting for Almanac 55810 40567.365 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: Have now loaded an ALMANAC 55810 40567.365 127.127.30.0 ONCORE[0]: state = ONCORE_RUN It seems this is my location... :-) Now you know where I live! :-) So the position is stored in the shared memory and when I reset the unit (mode 4) it uses the position stored in there. Anyone help care to comment this? This is from the refclock_oncore.c file. /* * If we don't find any then we don't have the cable delay or PPS * offset and we choose MODE (4) below. * * Five Choices for MODE *(0) ONCORE is preinitialized, don't do anything to change it. *nb, DON'T set 0D mode, DON'T set Delay, position... *(1) NO RESET, Read Position, delays from data file, lock it in, *go to 0D mode. *(2) NO RESET, Read Delays from data file, do SITE SURVEY to get *position, lock this in, go to 0D mode. *(3) HARD RESET, Read Position, delays from data file, lock it *in, go to 0D mode. *(4) HARD RESET, Read Delays from data file, do SITE SURVEY to *get position, lock this in, go to 0D mode. * NB. If a POSITION is specified in the config file with * mode=(2,4) [SITE SURVEY] then this position is set as the INITIAL position of the * ONCORE. This can reduce the time to first fix. * --- * Note that an Oncore UT without a battery backup retains NO information if it is power cycled, with a Battery Backup it remembers the almanac, etc. For an Oncore VP, there is an eeprom that will contain this data, along with the option of Battery Backup. * So a UT without Battery Backup is equivalent to doing a HARD RESET on each power cycle, since there is nowhere to store the data. If we open one or the other of the files, we read it looking for MODE, LAT, LON, (HT, HTGPS, HTMSL), DELAY, OFFSET, ASSERT, CLEAR, HARDPPS, STATUS, POSN3D, POSN2D, CHAN, TRAIM then initialize using method MODE. For Mode = (1,3) all of (LAT, LON, HT) must be present or mode reverts to (2,4). */ Your ntp.oncore.0 file will need to list your location: This is from my file HARDPPS PPS_CAPTUREASSERT MODE 1 LON -84.2017844758 LAT 40.7762210511 HT 223.445 DELAY 92.1 ns This skips the receiver reset and loads my coordinates. Once the receiver has a valid almanac, it will serve time. I am also using FreeBSD, but don't use SHMEM. You should be able to just link your serial port to the correct device using devfs.conf oncore.pps.0 -cuau0 oncore.serial.0 -cuau0 Tom -- Public Keys: PGP KeyID = 0x5F22FDC1 GnuPG KeyID = 0x620836CF ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org
Re: [ntp:questions] garmin 18x and linux
On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 04:47:20PM +, unruh wrote: On 2011-09-05, Miroslav Lichvar mlich...@redhat.com wrote: It's from gpsd which seems to make the NMEA receive timestamp after the message is processed. Never did understand that. Timestamping the beginning of the sentences is cheap enough and easy enough. Mind you, your fluctuations are far more than I would expect simply from variations in the length of the sentences. Are there more sentences delivered than just the one gpsd uses? There are other messages enabled (I like to monitor the visibility of satellites in cgps), but RMC and GGA are transmitted first. The baud rate is set to 115200. The measured time it takes to transmit one batch is about 85 +/- 10 ms. Here is another capture, this time only over couple hours, but it's the offset to the beginning of the transfer (i.e. start of RMC). http://mlichvar.fedorapeople.org/tmp/18x_nmea2.png The offset still moves in a 300ms range. -- Miroslav Lichvar ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] garmin 18x and linux
On 2011-09-06, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: The OP has an observatory with automated computer controls. I assume an extra $30 to replace a GPS would not kill him. Put the Garmin 18 on a boat. That is it's best use. If you want to tell my supervisor why a perfectly good GPS needs to be thrown away and a new one purchased, go ahead. Where do I find the $30 dollar GPS with serial cable for the PPS signal? However, I'm perfectly happy with my GPS now that I've moved it to a place with better visibility. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd keep trying preferred servers?
Seth Seeger wrote: When ntpd was started, the external servers were not available, so ntpd sync'd to itself. Now, the external servers have become available, but ntpd hasn't noticed. (It's been a few days.) Is there a way I can tell ntpd to keep checking for the preferred servers? On my two machines (on a router with dynamic IPs) I have to restart ntpd every time, the state of the connection changes, off/on IP cange. -- Herzliche Grüße! Rolf Muth Meine Adressen duerfen nicht fuer Werbung verwendet werden! PGP: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF8DC41935544C89A Palm clock: http://www.heise.de/software/download/analoge_uhr/61872 ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd keep trying preferred servers?
Rolf, What version of ntp are you running? H ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd keep trying preferred servers?
Thanks Herzliche. Your data confirms the data that I've found since posting the original message. I found this bug: https://support.ntp.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=870 And then I went back and looked at my server logs... it turned out that it failed to find the DNS entry (vs just not reaching the host). So according to the bug, if it can't find the DNS entry then it won't ever try that host again. Ah well. Thanks! Seth ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] garmin 18x and linux
On 2011-09-06, Greg Hennessy greg.henne...@cox.net wrote: On 2011-09-06, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: The OP has an observatory with automated computer controls. I assume an extra $30 to replace a GPS would not kill him. Put the Garmin 18 on a boat. That is it's best use. If you want to tell my supervisor why a perfectly good GPS needs to be thrown away and a new one purchased, go ahead. Where do I find the $30 dollar GPS with serial cable for the PPS signal? Well, it is actually a $150 dollar unit. $30 for the unit, and $120 for your time to solder a couple of wires across the board to get the pps out to the serial port and make a box to house the receiver :-) Example is the Sure unit eg-- http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm However, I'm perfectly happy with my GPS now that I've moved it to a place with better visibility. I would keep an eye on ntpd to make sure that the .128 sec step threshold does not get in your way. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd keep trying preferred servers?
On 2011-09-06, Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org wrote: What version of ntp are you running? According to the OP's ntpq output in the first message of this thread he is running 4.2.4p* ... the version that ships with Debian Lenny. -- Steve Kostecke koste...@ntp.org NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd keep trying preferred servers?
Harlan Stenn wrote: Rolf, What version of ntp are you running? I have an old desktop with suse 10.(1?) running (rpm -qf /usr/sbin/ntpd) xntp-4.2.0a-70.4 and a laptop, runnig opensuse 11.2 and (rpm -q ntp) ntp-4.2.4p8-0.1.2.i586 HTH -- Herzliche Grüße! Rolf Muth Meine Adressen duerfen nicht fuer Werbung verwendet werden! PGP: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF8DC41935544C89A ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd keep trying preferred servers?
Rolf, Thanks - sorry I missed some of that info from you previous message. We added initial support for dynamic interfaces in 4.2.4. Numerous bugfixes and improvements have been added since then. I recommend you try the latest -stable code (unless you are up for the latest -dev code, which we belive is very stable and is about to become 4.2.8). If you are running ntpd on the machine that has the dynamic interface then it should be detecting this. If your machines are talking to a router or access point that has the dynamic interface, I'd recommend you either run NTP on that machine (best solution) or hardwire the NTP config file on your machines to poll for time once a minute, so when your link does come up you'll get a few polls in there. H ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd keep trying preferred servers?
On 2011-09-06, Rolf Muth rolf.m...@web.de wrote: Harlan Stenn wrote: What version of ntp are you running? I have an old desktop with suse 10.(1?) running (rpm -qf /usr/sbin/ntpd) xntp-4.2.0a-70.4 and a laptop, runnig opensuse 11.2 and (rpm -q ntp) ntp-4.2.4p8-0.1.2.i586 Keeping in mind that the version string is: protocol.major.minor(incremental) and not: major.minor.incremental(patch) So: xntp-4.2.0a == NTP-4 v2.0.a ntp-4.2.4p8 == NTP-4 v2.4.8 and the current stable is: ntp-4.2.6p3 == NTP-4 v2.6.3 The only version eligible for free support are the current stable and ntp-dev. -- Steve Kostecke koste...@ntp.org NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd keep trying preferred servers?
Harlan Stenn wrote: Thanks - sorry I missed some of that info from you previous message. We added initial support for dynamic interfaces in 4.2.4. Numerous bugfixes and improvements have been added since then. I recommend you try the latest -stable code (unless you are up for the latest -dev code, which we belive is very stable and is about to become 4.2.8). If you are running ntpd on the machine that has the dynamic interface then it should be detecting this. If your machines are talking to a router or access point that has the dynamic interface, I'd recommend you either run NTP on that machine (best solution) or hardwire the NTP config file on your machines to poll for time once a minute, so when your link does come up you'll get a few polls in there. Thank you for the information, but automatically restarting ntp is not a problem. The configuration is sometimes changing (desktop with router or direct, laptop travelling) and ntp always keeps the time right on both machines.. The only problem I encounter, is a wlan access point, that blocks udp. Did you change that, too? -- Herzliche Grüße! Rolf Muth Meine Adressen duerfen nicht fuer Werbung verwendet werden! PGP: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF8DC41935544C89A Palm clock: http://www.heise.de/software/download/analoge_uhr/61872 ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd keep trying preferred servers?
Seth Seeger wrote: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == *LOCAL(1).LOCL. 12 l6 64 3770.000 0.000 0.001 rds110.1.3.214 u 538 1024 3770.148 -0.474 0.065 rds210.1.3.214 u 892 1024 3770.138 -1.210 0.099 You need the billboards for rds1 and rds2. It looks to me as though you have a timing loop. You do know that you should never have more than one local clock driver in any loop cycle? (These days you should use orphan mode, instead.) The rv's for the individual associations would also be useful. What is 10.1.3.2 in this system? Is it by any chance the machine being displayed? By the way, ntpd never synchronises to the itself. The local clock is a hack that prevents the root dispersion tending to infinity on an isolated system, but it is not an input to the timing calculation as it has an offset of zero, by definition. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] garmin 18x and linux
On 2011-09-06, unruh un...@wormhole.physics.ubc.ca wrote: Well, it is actually a $150 dollar unit. $30 for the unit, and $120 for your time to solder a couple of wires across the board to get the pps out to the serial port and make a box to house the receiver :-) Why don't the manufacturers provide the PPS signal to the serial port themselves? Is it meant to be NMEA only? ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] garmin 18x and linux
Greg Hennessy wrote: On 2011-09-06, unruh un...@wormhole.physics.ubc.ca wrote: Well, it is actually a $150 dollar unit. $30 for the unit, and $120 for your time to solder a couple of wires across the board to get the pps out to the serial port and make a box to house the receiver :-) Why don't the manufacturers provide the PPS signal to the serial port themselves? Is it meant to be NMEA only? 1) It will be intended for embedded system use; 2) TTL outputs are specified for rise times and propagation delays of the order of 10ns, whereas RS 232 isn't really specified for much better than 1 microsecond. RS232C is designed to driver medium length lines, whereas TTL wasn't really intended to drive more than about 10 inches. Both are mismatched to the transmission line. TTL aims to cope with reflections by making the line too short, whereas RS232 attempts to do so by controlling rise time. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd keep trying preferred servers?
On 2011-09-06, Rolf Muth rolf.m...@web.de wrote: Harlan Stenn wrote: Thanks - sorry I missed some of that info from you previous message. We added initial support for dynamic interfaces in 4.2.4. Numerous bugfixes and improvements have been added since then. I recommend you try the latest -stable code (unless you are up for the latest -dev code, which we belive is very stable and is about to become 4.2.8). If you are running ntpd on the machine that has the dynamic interface then it should be detecting this. If your machines are talking to a router or access point that has the dynamic interface, I'd recommend you either run NTP on that machine (best solution) or hardwire the NTP config file on your machines to poll for time once a minute, so when your link does come up you'll get a few polls in there. Thank you for the information, but automatically restarting ntp is not a problem. There should be no reason to restart ntp. The configuration is sometimes changing (desktop with router or direct, laptop travelling) and ntp always keeps the time right on both machines. The only problem I encounter, is a wlan access point, that blocks udp. Did you change that, too? I must be missing something. NTP doesn't have anything to do with wlan access point policy. Any recent NTP should detect interface changes and re-check the connection. If your immediate network does not change but a change happens on the router, that should not affect ntpd on your machines - they will send traffic and expect the router to do its job. -- Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org http://ntpforum.isc.org - be a member! ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd keep trying preferred servers?
On 2011-09-06, Rolf Muth rolf.m...@web.de wrote: Harlan Stenn wrote: Thanks - sorry I missed some of that info from you previous message. We added initial support for dynamic interfaces in 4.2.4. Numerous bugfixes and improvements have been added since then. I recommend you try the latest -stable code (unless you are up for the latest -dev code, which we belive is very stable and is about to become 4.2.8). If you are running ntpd on the machine that has the dynamic interface then it should be detecting this. If your machines are talking to a router or access point that has the dynamic interface, I'd recommend you either run NTP on that machine (best solution) or hardwire the NTP config file on your machines to poll for time once a minute, so when your link does come up you'll get a few polls in there. Thank you for the information, but automatically restarting ntp is not a problem. There should be no reason to restart ntp. The configuration is sometimes changing (desktop with router or direct, laptop travelling) and ntp always keeps the time right on both machines. The only problem I encounter, is a wlan access point, that blocks udp. Did you change that, too? I must be missing something. NTP doesn't have anything to do with wlan access point policy. Any recent NTP should detect interface changes and re-check the connection. If your immediate network does not change but a change happens on the router, that should not affect ntpd on your machines - they will send traffic and expect the router to do its job. -- Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org http://ntpforum.isc.org - be a member! ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] garmin 18x and linux
Why don't the manufacturers provide the PPS signal to the serial port themselves? Is it meant to be NMEA only? You are thinking that all GPS recievers are only used for NTP. There are many other uses of PPS that do not involve the serial port on a PC. In fact I'd guess that MOST GPS used for precision timing do not send PPS to a computer. A common use a PPS is to phase lock a local oscillator to prevent it from drifting. If cost is an issue there are even lower priced options then the one from Sure Electronics. Older Moterola UT+ receivers sell for $18. These actually have better specs and the signals are all run out to a 10-pin header, no soldering. If you have $100 you can get a Thunderbolt GPS which is ideal for precision timing. There are a wide range of products and you can find some that come with USA based tech support and are turn key. Or you buy the $18 unit from China solder some parts together. You can find anything you want. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] garmin 18x and linux
On 6 September 2011 23:02, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.comwrote: Why don't the manufacturers provide the PPS signal to the serial port themselves? Is it meant to be NMEA only? If cost is an issue there are even lower priced options then the one from Sure Electronics. Older Moterola UT+ receivers sell for $18. These actually have better specs and the signals are all run out to a 10-pin header, no soldering. I second this. I am looking at a Motorola Oncore UT+ unit I got on ebay for about 10 USD. I believe the antenna cost me 7 USD. :-) A quick trip to the local electronics shop and with a bit of soldering I have a board that gets the power from USB and returns the GPS signals to NTP. Oncore is connected to this board by a flat 10 wire cable. Quite neat! :-) The performance is quite impressive: oncore# uptime; ntpq -p; ntpdc -c kerninfo 12:02AM up 2:07, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == oGPS_ONCORE(0) .GPS.0 l7 16 3770.000 -0.001 0.001 canon.inria.fr .GPSi. 1 u 34 64 377 49.0540.621 0.383 ptbtime1.ptb.de .PTB.1 u 36 64 377 66.4750.864 0.316 ntp.ien.it .CTD.1 u6 64 377 52.0640.452 0.263 ntp02.oal.ul.pt 194.117.9.1382 u 27 64 3779.4860.565 0.453 ntp04.oal.ul.pt 194.117.9.1382 u 34 64 377 10.109 -0.831 0.235 Router7.Lisboa. 193.136.250.246 2 u 27 64 3778.1810.508 0.258 Router15.Porto. 193.136.250.246 2 u 13 64 377 12.5380.528 0.129 pll offset: -8.37e-07 s pll frequency:-32.057 ppm maximum error:0.004234 s estimated error: 1e-06 s status: 2107 pll ppsfreq ppstime ppssignal nano pll time constant:4 precision:1e-09 s frequency tolerance: 496 ppm pps frequency:-32.057 ppm pps stability:0.016 ppm pps jitter: 1.811e-06 s calibration interval: 256 s calibration cycles: 50 jitter exceeded: 5 stability exceeded: 0 calibration errors: 3 I've tried Garmin 18 LVC and Sure. Not want to start a war here but for the specifications and price Oncore beats both. :-) Just my 2c. Cheers, Miguel ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] garmin 18x and linux
On 2011-09-06, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: You are thinking that all GPS recievers are only used for NTP. Not exactly. I'm thinking that any GPS receiver that calculatates a PPS that doesn't provide it to the outside has wasted money. If a PPS is provided by a BNC connector instead of a serial port that makes sense, but it seems (to me) to be of only small incremental cost to provide the PPS to a serial port connection. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] garmin 18x and linux
On 2011-09-07, Miguel Gonçalves m...@miguelgoncalves.com wrote: The performance is quite impressive: oncore# uptime; ntpq -p; ntpdc -c kerninfo 12:02AM up 2:07, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter === oGPS_ONCORE(0) .GPS. 0 l7 16 3770.000 -0.001 0.001 canon.inria.fr .GPSi.1 u 34 64 377 49.0540.621 0.383 ptbtime1.ptb.de .PTB. 1 u 36 64 377 66.4750.864 0.316 ntp.ien.it .CTD. 1 u6 64 377 52.0640.452 0.263 ntp02.oal.ul.pt 194.1... 2 u 27 64 3779.4860.565 0.453 ntp04.oal.ul.pt 194.1... 2 u 34 64 377 10.109 -0.831 0.235 Router7.Lisboa. 193.1... 2 u 27 64 3778.1810.508 0.258 Router15.Porto. 193.1... 2 u 13 64 377 12.5380.528 0.129 Nice snapshot. Can you use peer.awk to summarize a week of peerstats files? -- Steve Kostecke koste...@ntp.org NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
