[ntp:questions] maxpoll

2013-09-11 Thread Michael 
Hi,

I am syncing to a private stratum 1 server.

I am using minpoll 6 maxpoll 6

However after an amount of time ntpq shows the polling interval to be
1024.

Any ideas why the maxpoll parameter is not being obeyed.


TIA Michael

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Re: [ntp:questions] maxpoll

2013-09-11 Thread Charles Elliott 
What platform are you running on and what version of NTPD are you using?

> -Original Message-
> From: questions-bounces+elliott.ch=verizon@lists.ntp.org
> [mailto:questions-bounces+elliott.ch=verizon@lists.ntp.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 4:53 AM
> To: questions@lists.ntp.org
> Subject: [ntp:questions] maxpoll
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am syncing to a private stratum 1 server.
> 
> I am using minpoll 6 maxpoll 6
> 
> However after an amount of time ntpq shows the polling interval to be
> 1024.
> 
> Any ideas why the maxpoll parameter is not being obeyed.
> 
> 
> TIA Michael
> 
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Re: [ntp:questions] GPS/PPS and "enable calibrate"

2013-09-11 Thread Mischanko, Edward T 


-Original Message-
From: questions-bounces+edward.mischanko=arcelormittal@lists.ntp.org 
[mailto:questions-bounces+edward.mischanko=arcelormittal@lists.ntp.org] On 
Behalf Of unruh
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 12:34 AM
To: questions@lists.ntp.org
Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] GPS/PPS and "enable calibrate"

On 2013-09-09, David Taylor  wrote:
> On 08/09/2013 19:55, unruh wrote:
> []
>> Well, as I recall it took a long time for them to release their update.
>> Note I am not a fan of Garmin. I bought two 18 (not 18x) and both 
>> have died.
>
> Who would have guessed!  
>
> I have the 18 and 18x.  The 18 has been out on the roof for some 
> years, and continues to work OK.  The 18x did stop working once but 
> was repaired FoC by Garmin (as it was another firmware defect).  Yes, 
> it took Garmin months rather than weeks to issue a formal fix for the 
> problem, but that's probably typical for a large firm with lots of QC 
> delays.  I would continue to recommend Garmin, just as I would the 
> Sure board (even though one of their supplied antennas failed), ad I 
> would

Yes, one of my two Sure antennas failed as well for me, and although they made 
noises about replacing it, they never did, and stopped answering my emails. On 
the other hand at $35 it was not a huge loss.
Just wish I could find a supplier for their $3 antennas.

Any powered gps antenna should work?  Measure the voltage between the center 
pin and the shield; buy a antenna that works with that voltage.


> the Adafruit GPS module.
>
>http://www.amazon.co.uk/Garmin-GPS-18x-OEM-LVC/dp/B0016O3T7A
>
>http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=99
>
>http://www.adafruit.com/products/746
>
> None of these are perfect, but non are high-priced items either.

The Garmin is the highest priced of the lot. It does have the advantage of a 
nice compact contained unit, rather than the exposed board of the Sure (hard to 
put that outside)

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Re: [ntp:questions] maxpoll

2013-09-11 Thread David Taylor 

On 11/09/2013 09:53, Michael wrote:

Hi,

I am syncing to a private stratum 1 server.

I am using minpoll 6 maxpoll 6

However after an amount of time ntpq shows the polling interval to be
1024.

Any ideas why the maxpoll parameter is not being obeyed.


TIA Michael



Something similar works here.  What is your NTP version?
--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

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Re: [ntp:questions] Standalone Windows XP/7 Machine Needs to Serve NTP

2013-09-11 Thread nospam . swstadel 
On Monday, September 9, 2013 6:28:53 PM UTC-5, David Woolley wrote:
> On 09/09/13 19:42, David Taylor wrote: > > It will do what you need, although 
> you will likely need to use orphan > mode. I can't help you with that. 
> Stepping the time on the reference > PC may cause problems, though, but it 
> would for any time reference > application. In particular, ntpd assumes that 
> time does not have discontinuities.

Hm.  This seems like a problem for me.  What I essentially have is a simulated 
GPS environment running on the laptop, where I need to be able to restart a 
scenario, which in turn would restart time, of course.  Time can therefore jump 
hours or even days, either backward or forward.  Other applications on the 
laptop and the connected Linux devices need to know time from the simulation 
and stay synchronized.

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Re: [ntp:questions] Trying to use Dimension 4 time keeper

2013-09-11 Thread Brian Inglis 

On 2013-09-08 23:22, unruh wrote:

On 2013-09-09, Brian Inglis  wrote:

On 2013-09-08 11:51, W. eWatson wrote:

On 9/7/2013 9:16 PM, David Taylor wrote:

On 07/09/2013 22:38, W. eWatson wrote:


You may want to try the latest stable NTP release 4.2.6p5 from Meinberg, for
ease of installation, on all three of your systems.
With stable connections and remote NTP servers it should get your time offset
within 100ms in a few hours, and within a few ms (or better depending on your
network and sources) over a period of about three weeks, and the drift within
PPB of your hardware clock over that period.


ntpd is slow but not that bad. a few ms in a couple of hours. It is us
levels that tend to take a half day or so.


We are talking about Windows here with remote network servers, not ref clocks, 
not Linux or BSD with kernel time discipline.
It takes that long on Windows (7 64 bit) with current stable ntpd and a server 
selection which does not clock hop very much. I have a year of stats and graphs 
showing that. But that is much better than previous stable (which the OP is 
currently running) where the drift wandered +/-250ppB and the offset stayed 
around the 10ms range.



If you are in the US, you may want to select some servers from
http://www.ustiming.org/?page_id=458 or http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi
and keep the pool servers in ntp.conf as backup in case some of your selections


Just use the pool for the accuracy he needs. (.1 sec) No need to
overload the bigger public servers.


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Re: [ntp:questions] Standalone Windows XP/7 Machine Needs to Serve NTP

2013-09-11 Thread E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists 
nospam.swsta...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> ... ntpd assumes that time does not have discontinuities.
>
> Hm.  This seems like a problem for me.
> What I essentially have is a simulated GPS environment
>  running on the laptop, where I need to be able to restart
>  a scenario, which in turn would restart time, of course.
> Time can therefore jump hours or even days,
>  either backward or forward.
> Other applications on the laptop and the connected Linux
>  devices need to know time from the simulation and stay synchronized.

Although that is abnormal, I don't see the problem.

Unlike normal ntpd use;
 Use server 127.127.1.0 Undisciplined Local Clock (LOCAL) ONLY,
  Fudge it to True,
 Restart ntpd when you jump the time around with your simulator?


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Re: [ntp:questions] GPS/PPS and "enable calibrate"

2013-09-11 Thread E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists 
unruh wrote:
> Edward T wrote:
>> Any powered gps antenna should work?
>>  Measure the voltage between the center pin and the shield;
>>   buy a antenna that works with that voltage.
>>
> Sure, and where do I get a supplier for such which does
>  not cost as much as the whole Sure does.
>

ebay, Amamzon, ..., although you might not get to $3,
 around $5 there are lots of SMA GPS 3-5v Active Antennas.

JFGI

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Re: [ntp:questions] Trying to use Dimension 4 time keeper

2013-09-11 Thread W. eWatson 

On 9/9/2013 9:59 PM, David Taylor wrote:

On 09/09/2013 20:57, W. eWatson wrote:
[]

It moves many seconds in a short time, say a day or two. How is GPS
going to help? Does it provide access via a USB port.


You can use GPS over a serial-to-USB converter.  You may also find that
your motherboard has a COM port header even though it's not brought out
to the back - that's the way to get best reults.  The serial output
alone doesn't provide very good results, although if you can turn up the
baud rate high (e.g. 115,200 baud) it can reduce some of the jitter, as
might getting the GPS to send just one sentence.  If (and it may be a
big ask) the serial-to-USB sends the DCD line, you can use the PPS
signal from the appropriate GPS to get significantly better performance
than using Internet servers alone.

Some GPS/PPS devices I have used are listed here:

   http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Raspberry-Pi-NTP.html#GPS-devices

To get the best timekeeping, I would recommend that you up#grade to the
current Meinberg port (4.2.6p5), and then copy the current development
version binaries on top of a working 4.2.6p5 installation.  The binaries
can be had here (except for Windows 2000):

   http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/x86/index.html

Be sure to backup your 4.2.6p5 installed binaries, just in case.

For 0.1s accuracy, from Brian's observations, it seems that a local
GPS/PPS receiver would be well worth the effort.  You could also add a
low-cost Linux box into the mix with a built-in GPS/PPS receiver, and
sync the Windows systems from that.  Here's the sort of size I am
talking about:

   http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/RaspberryPi-2-with-Adafruit-GPS.jpg

A credit-card sized box.
Not sure what you mean by "Copy the current development". Why not 
uninstall the present version, and start with a newer one?


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Re: [ntp:questions] maxpoll

2013-09-11 Thread Maarten Wiltink 
"Michael"  wrote in message
news:nnb039thbervf8v22htoa8clor81u5k...@4ax.com...
[...]
> I am using minpoll 6 maxpoll 6
>
> However after an amount of time ntpq shows the polling interval to be
> 1024.
>
> Any ideas why the maxpoll parameter is not being obeyed.

Quite possibly because you're reading in the wrong place. You don't
give us much to go on. It would be a good start if you could show us
the actual configuration file and ntpq output.

For the record - that by itself won't probably enable others to solve
your problem. But it wouldn't be the first time that carefully laying
out the evidence lets you spot the error, and it's a base for the next
step.

Groetjes,
Maarten Wiltink



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Re: [ntp:questions] Trying to use Dimension 4 time keeper

2013-09-11 Thread E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists 
W. eWatson wrote:
>> To get the best timekeeping, I would recommend that you
>>  up#grade to the current Meinberg port (4.2.6p5),
>>  and then copy the current development version binaries
>>  on top of a working 4.2.6p5 installation.
>> The binaries can be had here (except for Windows 2000):
>>
>>http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/x86/index.html







>> Be sure to backup your 4.2.6p5 installed binaries, just in case.
>
> Not sure what you mean by "Copy the current development". Why not
> uninstall the present version, and start with a newer one?

To preserve all the configuration, ...
 service settings, user account,  ... ?

 If you can / want to do all that yourself,
  then you hardly needed to use Meinberg to start with.

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Re: [ntp:questions] GPS/PPS and "enable calibrate"

2013-09-11 Thread unruh 
On 2013-09-11, Mischanko, Edward T  wrote:
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: questions-bounces+edward.mischanko=arcelormittal@lists.ntp.org 
> [mailto:questions-bounces+edward.mischanko=arcelormittal@lists.ntp.org] 
> On Behalf Of unruh
>>
>> Yes, one of my two Sure antennas failed as well for me, and although they 
>> made noises about replacing it, they never did, and stopped answering my 
>> emails. On the other hand at $35 it was not a huge loss.
>> Just wish I could find a supplier for their $3 antennas.
>>
> Any powered gps antenna should work?  Measure the voltage between the center 
> pin and the shield; buy a antenna that works with that voltage.
>
Sure, and where do I get a supplier for such which does not cost as much
as the whole Sure does. 

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Re: [ntp:questions] Standalone Windows XP/7 Machine Needs to Serve NTP

2013-09-11 Thread David Woolley 
On 11/09/13 17:17, E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the 
BlackLists wrote:




Although that is abnormal, I don't see the problem.

Unlike normal ntpd use;
  Use server 127.127.1.0 Undisciplined Local Clock (LOCAL) ONLY,
   Fudge it to True,
  Restart ntpd when you jump the time around with your simulator?


The clients will shut down as the time step is more than 1,000 seconds. 
 For steps less than 1,000 second they'll still take upwards of 20 
minutes to react.


You can tweak these numbers, although I don't know if panic can be set 
as large as several days.


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Re: [ntp:questions] Trying to use Dimension 4 time keeper

2013-09-11 Thread David Taylor 

On 11/09/2013 18:22, W. eWatson wrote:
[]

Not sure what you mean by "Copy the current development". Why not
uninstall the present version, and start with a newer one?


The development versions don't some with an installer - just the 
executables.  There is no need for an uninstall - just stop the service, 
copy the .EXE files, restart the service.  Simple!

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

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Re: [ntp:questions] Standalone Windows XP/7 Machine Needs to Serve NTP

2013-09-11 Thread E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists 
David Woolley wrote:
> BlackLists wrote:
>> Although that is abnormal, I don't see the problem.
>>
>> Unlike normal ntpd use;
>>   Use server 127.127.1.0 Undisciplined Local Clock (LOCAL) ONLY,
>>Fudge it to True,
>>   Restart ntpd when you jump the time around with your simulator?
>
> The clients will shut down as the time step
>  is more than 1,000 seconds.
>   For steps less than 1,000 second they'll still take
>upwards of 20 minutes to react.
>
> You can tweak these numbers, although I don't know if
>  panic can be set as large as several days.
>

Yes, I meant restart the ntpd service on _all_ systems
 with ntpd -g so it won't panic stop.

IIRC meinberg has a script for that?

 restartntp.bat ?

You probably want to restart the one being used as the
 "Server" (with the 127.127.1.0 Undisciplined Local Clock) first,
 then restart the "Clients" that are following the "Server".

You may also have to set the "Server" as true in the clients
 .conf server line.

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