[ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[hschulla]

Hi!
Some days ago I tried Meinberg NTP on my Server2008R2.
After some security issues (administrator rights required, compatibility) NTP 
worked as service..
But after a while I recognized, that Windows-Time was not set when polled.
Polling was at 1024 (17min) and time was set only in 90-120min intervals.
Here a short copy of the system log:

Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T17:49:58.337959600Z auf 
2014-06-01T17:49:58.15400Z geändert.
Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T15:44:35.212169700Z auf 
2014-06-01T15:44:35.05000Z geändert.
Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T14:14:29.175169100Z auf 
2014-06-01T14:14:28.99600Z geändert.
Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T12:44:13.086669300Z auf 
2014-06-01T12:44:12.94400Z geändert.

Another issue was, that ntpd.exe (service) refused working after some days. I 
get mail notification about. 
After restarting the service polling also started again.
I use my own stratum-1-time-servers (GPS) in the LAN which were available all 
the time. In this special case none of the mentioned time-servers (LAN , 
at.pool) respond. Other machines could sync the time very well. 
The time-servers are built with an evaluation board of a 32-bit ARM Cortex-M4F 
micro-controller and a GPS-Module with external outdoor antenna.

The delay (90-120min !!) while setting the windows-time also occcured on a 
Win8.1 machine.

I'm really confused .

Regards
Hartmut

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[hschulla]

I forgot, there was another issue on server2008R2 and Win8.1.
On both machines "ntpq -p" was not working. Got a timeout.

Hartmut

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[William Unruh]

On 2014-06-02, hschu...@gmail.com  wrote:
> Hi!
> Some days ago I tried Meinberg NTP on my Server2008R2.
> After some security issues (administrator rights required, compatibility) NTP 
> worked as service..
> But after a while I recognized, that Windows-Time was not set when polled.
> Polling was at 1024 (17min) and time was set only in 90-120min intervals.

ntpd on average only uses 1/7 of the polls to actually
set the clock (the clock filter). This is supposedly done to try to
compensate for noise from possibly assymetric network delays. 
Whether it is a good way of doing that is open for discussion, but that
is the way it does it. So, what you are seeing is not surprizing. 

> Here a short copy of the system log:
>
> Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T17:49:58.337959600Z auf 
> 2014-06-01T17:49:58.15400Z ge?ndert.
> Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T15:44:35.212169700Z auf 
> 2014-06-01T15:44:35.05000Z ge?ndert.
> Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T14:14:29.175169100Z auf 
> 2014-06-01T14:14:28.99600Z ge?ndert.
> Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T12:44:13.086669300Z auf 
> 2014-06-01T12:44:12.94400Z ge?ndert.
>
> Another issue was, that ntpd.exe (service) refused working after some days. I 
> get mail notification about. 

No idea from your description as to what is happening. Not enough
information. 

> After restarting the service polling also started again.
> I use my own stratum-1-time-servers (GPS) in the LAN which were available all 
> the time. In this special case none of the mentioned time-servers (LAN , 
> at.pool) respond. Other machines could sync the time very well. 
> The time-servers are built with an evaluation board of a 32-bit ARM 
> Cortex-M4F micro-controller and a GPS-Module with external outdoor antenna.
>
> The delay (90-120min !!) while setting the windows-time also occcured on a 
> Win8.1 machine.
>
> I'm really confused .
>
> Regards
> Hartmut

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[David Woolley]

On 02/06/14 15:50, hschu...@gmail.com wrote:


Some days ago I tried Meinberg NTP on my Server2008R2.


There isn't a Meinberg NTP as software for Windows, there is only the 
University of Kansas software with a Windows installer from Meinberg.



But after a while I recognized, that Windows-Time was not set when polled.
Polling was at 1024 (17min) and time was set only in 90-120min intervals.
Here a short copy of the system log:

Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T17:49:58.337959600Z auf 
2014-06-01T17:49:58.15400Z geändert.


If ntpd sets the time at all, except once at startup, it is in 
difficulties.  ntpd sets the frequency, when operating normally.


I think you may have overridden the minimum polling interval, as ntpd 
should have ramped down to the minimum if it is stepping.


When ntpd steps, it needs to have enough samples showing a problem 
first, then it waits for about 15 minutes to make sure that the problem 
is real and finally, I think it needs to refill the 8 entry minimum 
delay filter.


When ntpd is not stepping, it oversamples (in terms of the desired 
filter bandwidth) by more than a factor of 8, then only uses the sample 
from the last eight with the lowest delay, as that is assumed to have 
the least error due to path asymmetry.


All the steps seem to be backwards, which probably means that your 
motherboard clock is is more than 500ppm fast.  Although this is best 
treated as broken hardware, and the motherboard replaced, on Unix and 
Linux you can correct for it in units of 100ppm.  I'm not sure that 
there is any equivalent tactic available on Windows.


Repeated steps can also happen if something else is disciplining the 
clock at the same time as ntpd.


Overriding minpoll and maxpoll can sometimes make it difficult, or 
impossible, for ntpd to lock onto the correct frequency, so it is just 
possible that that would be sufficient to cause the stepping.


Basically you are seeing too many of these messages not too few.

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[David Taylor]

On 02/06/2014 18:24, David Woolley wrote:
[]

Repeated steps can also happen if something else is disciplining the
clock at the same time as ntpd.

Overriding minpoll and maxpoll can sometimes make it difficult, or
impossible, for ntpd to lock onto the correct frequency, so it is just
possible that that would be sufficient to cause the stepping.

Basically you are seeing too many of these messages not too few.


David, here I set the polling interval for local servers to for example:

  server  192.168.0.3  iburst  maxpoll 5

but not for any pool servers.  I do recall that somewhere there was a 
recommendation for maxpoll 6 for some versions of NTP with some versions 
of Windows.  I'm using the current development version, by the way.


Checking that another program isn't tampering with the clock is an 
excellent suggestion as well.  Does it make any difference if this 
server is part of a domain, a domain controller for example?  Something 
of which I have no experience, but Martin Burnicki might.


You have a good point about the hardware clock - Hartmut, what is the 
value in ntp.drift - it's a text file.


To me, if ntpq -p is timing out, it either suggests that ntpd.exe isn't 
running (so the Windows Application Event Log may have more details), or 
that the machine needs to be addressed on its IPv4 address:


  ntpq -p 127.0.0.1

Just some more thoughts which might help.

Cheers,
David
--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[hschulla]

Hi!
Probably it is a hardware problem.
On both machines are identical Mainboards: Asus Sabertooth Z77C2.
RAM is identical 32GB.
The server2008R2 runs as IPv6-machine.
The Win8-machine runs some virtual operating systems Win7, XP, Linux.
I tried ntpq with a dedicated v4-adress with the same results on both machines: 
timeout.
Although the ntp-monitor runs fine an shows the poll count in status.
In the moment I run NetTime successful with +- 3ms jitter within 15min.
ntp-drift ist no longer available, because I uninstalled NTP.
On the server2008R2 I recognized some errors in NTP (mail notification) but 
they recovered immediately until the "freeze".
All peers were "greyed out" .
Only a restart of ntped.exe service recovered the failure immediately.
Hartmut

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[Harlan Stenn]

David Woolley writes:
> On 02/06/14 15:50, hschu...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Some days ago I tried Meinberg NTP on my Server2008R2.
> 
> There isn't a Meinberg NTP as software for Windows, there is only the =
> 
> University of Kansas software with a Windows installer from Meinberg.

University of Delaware, and the NTP Project is in the process of
re-homing at Network Time Foundation.
-- 
Harlan Stenn 
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[hschulla]

Yesterday in the late evening I reinstalled NTP on my Win8.1 64Bit machine 
(PC06).
Today, after awake from hibernation, I recognized that only "local clock" was 
polled. All other peers are greyed out. After restarting the ntp-service the 
LAN time servers are polled, but no windows-clock was set. 
ntpq -p ist furthermore not working:

C:\Program Files (x86)\NTP\bin>ntpq -p
PC06: timed out, nothing received
***Request timed out

C:\Program Files (x86)\NTP\bin>

Here my configuration file:




# NTP Network Time Protocol 
#  ATTENTION : *You have to restart the NTP service when you change 
this file to activate the changes* 
# PLEASE CHECK THIS FILE CAREFULLY AND MODIFY IT IF REQUIRED 
# Configuration File created by Windows Binary Distribution Installer Rev.: 
1.27  mbg
# please check http://www.ntp.org for additional documentation and background 
information

# The following restrict statements prevent that someone can abuse NTP as a 
traffic amplification tool by 
# ignoring mode 6 and mode 7 packets. Especially the monlist feature has a big 
potential to be abused for this. 
# See http://news.meinberg.de/244 for further information.  
restrict default nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
# But allow local tools like ntpq full access:  
#restrict 127.0.0.1
# if you are using IPv6 on this machine, please uncomment the following lines: 
# restrict -6 default nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
# restrict -6 ::1

# Use drift file 
driftfile "C:\Program Files (x86)\NTP\etc\ntp.drift"

# your local system clock, should be used as a backup
# (this is only useful if you need to distribute time no matter how good or bad 
it is)
server 127.127.1.0
# but it operates at a high stratum level to let the clients know and force 
them to
# use any other timesource they may have.
fudge 127.127.1.0 stratum 12 

# Use a NTP server from the ntp pool project (see http://www.pool.ntp.org)
# Please note that you need at least four different servers to be at least 
protected against
# one falseticker. If you only rely on internet time, it is highly recommended 
to add
# additional servers here. 
# The 'iburst' keyword speeds up initial synchronization, please check the 
documentation for more details!
 server 192.168.0.30 iburst
 server 192.168.0.31 iburst
 server 0.at.pool.ntp.org iburst
 server 1.at.pool.ntp.org iburst
 server 2.at.pool.ntp.org iburst
 server 1.de.pool.ntp.org iburst
 server 2.uk.pool.ntp.org iburst


# End of generated ntp.conf --- Please edit this to suite your needs



Hartmut

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[hschulla]

Hi!
Exactly in this moment ntpd.exe freezed and also mbgtsmon.exe (Time server 
monitor).
Tab "NTP Status" says in line Current local NTP Status"please wait "
and below:
 "No association IDs(1)"

Hartmut

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[David Taylor]

On 03/06/2014 09:17, hschu...@gmail.com wrote:
[]

Here my configuration file:

[]

# Use drift file
driftfile "C:\Program Files (x86)\NTP\etc\ntp.drift"

[]

Hartmut


Hartmut,

I already advised you /not/ to install in C:\Program Files\ as NTP 
requires write-access to some of its files, and the user requires write 
access to ntp.conf.


Try installing to  C:\Tools\NTP\  as advised in my setup guide:

  http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/setup.html

Leave the restriction lines commented out until you get the server working.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[David Lord]

hschu...@gmail.com wrote:

Yesterday in the late evening I reinstalled NTP on my Win8.1 64Bit machine 
(PC06).
Today, after awake from hibernation, I recognized that only "local clock" was polled. All other peers are greyed out. After restarting the ntp-service the LAN time servers are polled, but no windows-clock was set. 
ntpq -p ist furthermore not working:


C:\Program Files (x86)\NTP\bin>ntpq -p
PC06: timed out, nothing received
***Request timed out

C:\Program Files (x86)\NTP\bin>

Here my configuration file:




# NTP Network Time Protocol 
#  ATTENTION : *You have to restart the NTP service when you change this file to activate the changes* 
# PLEASE CHECK THIS FILE CAREFULLY AND MODIFY IT IF REQUIRED 
# Configuration File created by Windows Binary Distribution Installer Rev.: 1.27  mbg

# please check http://www.ntp.org for additional documentation and background 
information

# The following restrict statements prevent that someone can abuse NTP as a traffic amplification tool by 
# ignoring mode 6 and mode 7 packets. Especially the monlist feature has a big potential to be abused for this. 
# See http://news.meinberg.de/244 for further information.  
restrict default nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
# But allow local tools like ntpq full access:  
#restrict 127.0.0.1


That should be:

restrict 127.0.0.1


# if you are using IPv6 on this machine, please uncomment the following lines: 
# restrict -6 default nomodify notrap nopeer noquery

# restrict -6 ::1


Same again those should be:

restrict -6 default nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
restrict -6 ::1



David



# Use drift file 
driftfile "C:\Program Files (x86)\NTP\etc\ntp.drift"


# your local system clock, should be used as a backup
# (this is only useful if you need to distribute time no matter how good or bad 
it is)
server 127.127.1.0
# but it operates at a high stratum level to let the clients know and force 
them to
# use any other timesource they may have.
fudge 127.127.1.0 stratum 12 


# Use a NTP server from the ntp pool project (see http://www.pool.ntp.org)
# Please note that you need at least four different servers to be at least 
protected against
# one falseticker. If you only rely on internet time, it is highly recommended 
to add
# additional servers here. 
# The 'iburst' keyword speeds up initial synchronization, please check the documentation for more details!

 server 192.168.0.30 iburst
 server 192.168.0.31 iburst
 server 0.at.pool.ntp.org iburst
 server 1.at.pool.ntp.org iburst
 server 2.at.pool.ntp.org iburst
 server 1.de.pool.ntp.org iburst
 server 2.uk.pool.ntp.org iburst


# End of generated ntp.conf --- Please edit this to suite your needs



Hartmut


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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[William Unruh]

On 2014-06-03, hschu...@gmail.com  wrote:
> Yesterday in the late evening I reinstalled NTP on my Win8.1 64Bit machine 
> (PC06).
> Today, after awake from hibernation, I recognized that only "local clock" was 
> polled. All other peers are greyed out. After restarting the ntp-service the 
> LAN time servers are polled, but no windows-clock was set. 

First, get rid of the local clock in the configurationfile. You should
NOT be using it. 

> ntpq -p ist furthermore not working:
>
> C:\Program Files (x86)\NTP\bin>ntpq -p
> PC06: timed out, nothing received
> ***Request timed out
>
> C:\Program Files (x86)\NTP\bin>
>
> Here my configuration file:
>
>
>
>
> # NTP Network Time Protocol 
> #  ATTENTION : *You have to restart the NTP service when you change 
> this file to activate the changes* 
> # PLEASE CHECK THIS FILE CAREFULLY AND MODIFY IT IF REQUIRED 
> # Configuration File created by Windows Binary Distribution Installer Rev.: 
> 1.27  mbg
> # please check http://www.ntp.org for additional documentation and background 
> information
>
> # The following restrict statements prevent that someone can abuse NTP as a 
> traffic amplification tool by 
> # ignoring mode 6 and mode 7 packets. Especially the monlist feature has a 
> big potential to be abused for this. 
> # See http://news.meinberg.de/244 for further information.  
> restrict default nomodify notrap nopeer noquery

It is completely stupid that ntpd has any "amplification" queries, and
furthermore that they are on by default.  All queries which are shorter
than the response should be automatically ignored. 


> # But allow local tools like ntpq full access:  
> #restrict 127.0.0.1
> # if you are using IPv6 on this machine, please uncomment the following 
> lines: 
> # restrict -6 default nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
> # restrict -6 ::1
>
> # Use drift file 
> driftfile "C:\Program Files (x86)\NTP\etc\ntp.drift"
>
> # your local system clock, should be used as a backup
> # (this is only useful if you need to distribute time no matter how good or 
> bad it is)
> server 127.127.1.0

NONONONONO. Get rid of this. Note the caviate. You should not be using
it, and they should NOT have had this on by default. If you really
really know what you are doing it could be useful in very special
occasions, but as a default it is silly.


> # but it operates at a high stratum level to let the clients know and force 
> them to
> # use any other timesource they may have.
> fudge 127.127.1.0 stratum 12 

And get rid of this. 

>
> # Use a NTP server from the ntp pool project (see http://www.pool.ntp.org)
> # Please note that you need at least four different servers to be at least 
> protected against
> # one falseticker. If you only rely on internet time, it is highly 
> recommended to add
> # additional servers here. 
> # The 'iburst' keyword speeds up initial synchronization, please check the 
> documentation for more details!
>  server 192.168.0.30 iburst
>  server 192.168.0.31 iburst

What are those two servers?

>  server 0.at.pool.ntp.org iburst
>  server 1.at.pool.ntp.org iburst
>  server 2.at.pool.ntp.org iburst
>  server 1.de.pool.ntp.org iburst
>  server 2.uk.pool.ntp.org iburst
>
>
> # End of generated ntp.conf --- Please edit this to suite your needs
>
>
>
> Hartmut

Now as to your problem. Firewall rules either on your computer on on the
router leading to your computer? What do the logs say?


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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

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hschu...@gmail.com wrote:
> Here my configuration file:
> restrict default nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
> # But allow local tools like ntpq full access:
> #restrict 127.0.0.1
> # if you are using IPv6 on this machine, please uncomment
the following lines:
> # restrict -6 default nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
> # restrict -6 ::1

Without those restrict lines you might have issues using ntpq. Try:
restrict -4 default limited kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
restrict 127.0.0.1
restrict -6 default limited kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
restrict ::1
restrict 224.0.1.1 mask 255.255.255.255 nomodify
restrict 192.168.0.0  mask 255.255.255.0 nomodify
restrict source nomodify


> server 127.127.1.0
> fudge 127.127.1.0 stratum 12

Get rid of both of those above, likely a lot of your issues,
  with the internet ntp servers getting discarded.
 If you still have reach issues after that, check the firewall on the device,
  as well as the LAN firewall(s) &/or router(s) Port 123 restrictions.


>  server 192.168.0.30 iburst
>  server 192.168.0.31 iburst
>  server 0.at.pool.ntp.org iburst
>  server 1.at.pool.ntp.org iburst
>  server 2.at.pool.ntp.org iburst
>  server 1.de.pool.ntp.org iburst
>  server 2.uk.pool.ntp.org iburst

If you are using a more recent version of ntp (4.2.7 circa 2010Apr or newer),
 you can use pool, instead of server, e.g.

server 192.168.0.30 iburst preempt
server 192.168.0.31 iburst preempt
pool at.pool.ntp.org iburst preempt
pool europe.pool.ntp.org iburst preempt #See: 





I you have several clients &/or servers on the same LAN,
 you might want to try adding e.g.:

keys "C:\Program Files\NTP\etc\ntp.keys" # e.g. contains: 123 M YOUR_MD5_KEY
trustedkey 123
tos cohort 1 orphan 11
broadcast 224.0.1.1
broadcastclient
multicastclient 224.0.1.1 key 123 preempt
manycastserver 224.0.1.1
manycastclient 224.0.1.1 key 123 preempt


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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[hschulla]

Hi!
With the above mentioned Setting ntpq works!

C:\Program Files (x86)\NTP\bin>ntpq -p
 remote   refid  st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==
*toa1.bkh.at .GPS.1 u   38   64   170.514   -0.909   0.977
 toa2.bkh.at .GPS.1 u   41   64   170.015   -0.768   0.977
 ip146255057034. 91.189.94.4  3 u   40   64   17   14.074   -3.193  22.992
 boxi.trexler.at 193.171.23.163   2 u   39   64   17   14.490   43.767   1.913
 manage.mediainv 193.171.23.163   2 u   38   64   17   13.4280.971   5.573
 ntp1.sil.at 86.59.80.170 3 u   38   64   17   14.1872.870  58.004

C:\Program Files (x86)\NTP\bin>

Let's wait 

Hartmut

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[hschulla]

Hi!
Not working again.
Actual polling rate: 256.
The internal system clock (windows time UTC) was only one time altered between 
16:00 and 21:00:

Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-04T14:12:55.993298900Z in 
2014-06-04T14:12:55.82900Z geändert.

Änderungsgrund: Die Uhrzeit wurde von einer Anwendung oder von einer 
Systemkomponente geändert..

Hartmut

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

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hschu...@gmail.com wrote:
> Not working again.

Offhand you likely have a perception problem.

What makes you think its not working?

ntpq -clpe -clas -crv

In ntpq,
 Does the peers have e.g. a server with a * in front of it,
  are there maybe others with + in front of them,
  is the reach for those servers e.g. 377;
  reasonable delays, offsets, jitters?

 Does an association have e.g. reach yes for a condition sys.peer
  and last event sys_peer, and likely other candidates reachable?

 Does your client's variables have e.g. sync_ntp, leap 00,
  a stratum lower than 16,


> Actual polling rate: 256.

The polls should get longer, and shorter based on what ntp needs;
 they get longer as the systems frequency is stabilized,
  or shorter if ntp thinks it needs shorter polls,
   based on the data it has (I think mostly dispersion of a server),
and the adjustments its recently / currently making.


> The internal system clock (windows time UTC) was only one time altered
>  between 16:00 and 21:00:
>
> Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-04T14:12:55.993298900Z in 
> 2014-06-04T14:12:55.82900Z geändert.
> Änderungsgrund: Die Uhrzeit wurde von einer Anwendung oder von einer 
> Systemkomponente geändert..


> The system time was 2014-06-04T14: 12:55.993298900 Z 2014-06-04T14: 
> 12:55.82900 Z changed.
> Reason for change: The time has been changed by an application or a system 
> component ..

Whats that from?

NTP only sets the date / time once, rarely steps the time,
 and normally makes small changes to the frequency.





 e.g. pg 23 
Clock discipline algorithm







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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[Maarten Wiltink]

 wrote in message
news:c7ea1a65-eb51-4708-98cb-5aa0d4b31...@googlegroups.com...

> Not working again.
> Actual polling rate: 256.

> The internal system clock (windows time UTC) was only one time altered
> between 16:00 and 21:00:

You keep repeating that. If any of your associations has a '*' in front
of it, NTP is working and the offset to that server should be low. That
should tell you that your clock is running very close to 'real' time.

NTP does _not_ work by setting your clock to a different time, over and
over. It works by making your clock run faster or slower, as required.
If this works, you see a lot of nothing happening.

Groetjes,
Maarten Wiltink


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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[David Lord]

hschu...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi!
Not working again.
Actual polling rate: 256.
The internal system clock (windows time UTC) was only one time altered between 
16:00 and 21:00:


As has been already mentioned ntpd needs write access
to some of its files.

Can you confirm that it has, particularly ntpd.drift
(whatever is default or has been cofigured).


David



Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-04T14:12:55.993298900Z in 
2014-06-04T14:12:55.82900Z geändert.

Änderungsgrund: Die Uhrzeit wurde von einer Anwendung oder von einer 
Systemkomponente geändert..

Hartmut


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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[hschulla]

Hi!

ntp.drift is configured and the actual value is 8.898.

Hartmut

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[David Lord]

hschu...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi!

ntp.drift is configured and the actual value is 8.898.

Hartmut



How do you know that ntpd isn't running?

If 'ntpq -p' is still working then so is ntpd.

If you are wanting ntpd to behave same as windows time then
you'd better forget about running ntpd and then you'll be
happy (but your time probably won't be as good as from ntpd).


David


Not from a windows system:

$ ntpq -crv -p
associd=0 status=011d leap_none, sync_pps, 1 event, kern,
version="ntpd 4.2.7p444@1.2483-o Thu May 22 09:51:04 UTC 2014 (1)",
processor="i386", system="NetBSD/6.1_STABLE", leap=00, stratum=1,
precision=-18, rootdelay=0.000, rootdisp=400.150, refid=PPSb,
reftime=d73a384b.914e86bc  Thu, Jun  5 2014  0:28:59.567,
clock=d73a3856.6f6569fc  Thu, Jun  5 2014  0:29:10.435, peer=31562,
tc=4, mintc=3, offset=-0.000312, frequency=-35.047,
sys_jitter=0.003815, clk_jitter=0.001, clk_wander=0.002

remoterefidst t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter

*GPS_NMEA(2)  .GPSb.7 l   44   64  3770.000   -1.416  12.035
oPPS(2)   .PPSb.0 l   11   16  3770.0000.000   0.004
 me6000g.home xxx.xxx   2 u   19   64  3770.4700.185   0.560
+ns0.lordynet xxx.xxx   3 u   53   64  3772.0600.737   0.594
+ns1.lordynet xxx.xxx   3 u   45   64  3770.5480.151   0.586
+ns3.lordynet xxx.xxx   3 u   34   64  3770.5120.233   0.565
+ntp2.xxx xxx.xxx   2 u  232  256  377   22.3172.002   0.473

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[hschulla]

Now, it seems to work for 2 days, both on Server2008R2 and Win8.1.
Only ntpd.exe and the "monitor program" need administrator rights to write on 
the program Directory e.g. driftfile on system drive C:.

Hartmut

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Re: [ntp:questions] Some issues about NTP ( Server 2008R2)

[Martin Burnicki]

Hi,

sorry for stepping in so late, I've been on holidays with limited 
internet access.


hschu...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi!
Some days ago I tried Meinberg NTP on my Server2008R2.
After some security issues (administrator rights required, compatibility) NTP 
worked as service..
But after a while I recognized, that Windows-Time was not set when polled.
Polling was at 1024 (17min) and time was set only in 90-120min intervals.
Here a short copy of the system log:

Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T17:49:58.337959600Z auf 
2014-06-01T17:49:58.15400Z geändert.
Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T15:44:35.212169700Z auf 
2014-06-01T15:44:35.05000Z geändert.
Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T14:14:29.175169100Z auf 
2014-06-01T14:14:28.99600Z geändert.
Die Systemzeit wurde von 2014-06-01T12:44:13.086669300Z auf 
2014-06-01T12:44:12.94400Z geändert.

Another issue was, that ntpd.exe (service) refused working after some days. I 
get mail notification about.
After restarting the service polling also started again.
I use my own stratum-1-time-servers (GPS) in the LAN which were available all 
the time. In this special case none of the mentioned time-servers (LAN , 
at.pool) respond. Other machines could sync the time very well.
The time-servers are built with an evaluation board of a 32-bit ARM Cortex-M4F 
micro-controller and a GPS-Module with external outdoor antenna.

The delay (90-120min !!) while setting the windows-time also occcured on a 
Win8.1 machine.

I'm really confused .


Windows is a lousy timekeeper, and the Windows port of the NTP software 
includes a number of workarounds for deficiencies in the Windows 
operating system.


The latest Windows bug which came to our attention is that some Windows 
versions don't apply small time adjustments at all. For example, if NTP 
applies an adjustment less than 16 ticks to the Windows time this is 
simply ignored by Windows. However, NTP expects the adjustment to have 
some effect, but if there is no effect then the next time comparison 
yields a much larger difference than expected, and thus causes another 
adjustment which is probably larger than necessary. As a summary this 
can cause large swings in the time adjustment values.


A developer version of the NTP package contains a workaround for this 
Windows bug. The report and fix are discussed here:


NTP Bug 2328 - Vista/Win7 time keeping inaccurate and erratic
https://bugs.ntp.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2328

The problem is also explained on the Microsoft support page:

SetSystemTimeAdjustment May Lose Adjustments Less than 16
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2537623

Even though the MS report only mentions Windows 7, the Windows Server 
2008 kernel is similar to Windows 7 and has probably the same bug. So if 
you want to give it a try you can download a NTP developer version here 
which includes a workaround:

http://people.ntp.org/burnicki/windows/

You should try the release version first, namely:
http://people.ntp.org/burnicki/windows/ntp-4.2.7p348+patches-release.zip

Just unzip the ZIP archive, stop the NTP service, copy all extracted 
files over the files in your NTP installation directory (e.g. C:\Program 
Files (x86)\NTP\bin\), and restart the NTP service.


We have found that this version has greatly improved the resulting 
accuracy on Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 installations.


Please note under Windows you should configure all upstream servers with 
a line reading


server aa.bb.cc.dd iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 6

where aa.bb.cc.dd has to be replaced with the host name or IP address of 
your NTP server.


Generally you should use a polling interval as short as possible under 
Windows to let let ntpd apply adjustments quickly.


However, please don't use polling intervals below 6 with the developer 
version since this prevents the workaround from working correctly as 
discussed in the bug report.


Also, higher polling intervals can cause problems under Windows. See:

NTP Bug 2341 - ntpd fails to keep up with clock drift at poll > 7
http://bugs.ntp.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2341

So our advice is to use "minpoll 6 maxpoll 6" as indicated in the 
example above.


Here are some results with polling interval limited to 6:
http://people.ntp.org/burnicki/windows/ntpd-4.2.7-Win7-poll4-6.pdf

An here is the same case without limitation of the polling interval to 6:
http://people.ntp.org/burnicki/windows/ntpd-4.2.7-Win7-poll4-max.pdf


The patched ntpd has caused no drawbacks on any Windows machines, but 
has improved accuracy on a number of installations.


This specific developer version has been tested on a large number of 
installations without problems, and it contains the "monlist" fix, so 
you might consider using this version.


More current developer versions which include the required patch are 
available from David Taylor's web page at

http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/x86/

They should also enhance the behavior, and can be installed in the same 
way as mentioned above.


Hope this he