Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Harlan Stenn]

I knew we had some routines that almost did this, and Dave Hart pointed
me at util/tg.c and util/tg2.c - you might want to check those out if
you haven't done so already.

H
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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Dave Hart]

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 19:56 PM, Chris Albertson
 wrote:
> A WWVB simulator is very simple but I want to use it for testing so
> I'm adding features like the abilty to add random noise and drop outs
> and to run faster than real time or with large offsets to true UTC so
> I doubt I'll have it done this weekend.  You asked for DCF-77 but
> changing bit encooding to the German standard is easy.

If you find it easy to generate both WWVB and DCF-77 bitstreams from a
single program, that hints it might be productive to extend the NTP
reference clock drivers for one to also handle the other, and get rid
of some code duplication as well as increase the bug-hunting audience
for the combined driver.

Cheers,
Dave Hart
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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Chris Albertson]

I'm working on one for the US based WWVB signal.  I found I needed a
good simulator to test my decoder.To use this as a GPS converter
what you'd do is fist run NTP on the computer, connect a GPS so the
computer's clock is sync'd at the 1uS level and then software generate
time code based on the system clock and it's correct to a few uS.  Not
quite the compact converter you want but does the job.

A WWVB simulator is very simple but I want to use it for testing so
I'm adding features like the abilty to add random noise and drop outs
and to run faster than real time or with large offsets to true UTC so
I doubt I'll have it done this weekend.  You asked for DCF-77 but
changing bit encooding to the German standard is easy.

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:10 AM, mousmous  wrote:
> HI,
> I have the same problem. For me even  GPS->DCF77 converter will work but I 
> counl't find such, after long searched. Can someone please advise where I can 
> find such or similar.
>
>
>
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-- 
=
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[mousmous]

HI,
I have the same problem. For me even  GPS->DCF77 converter will work but I 
counl't find such, after long searched. Can someone please advise where I can 
find such or similar.



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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Ulrich Windl]

Pete Ashdown  writes:

> I've bought a number of clocks from Germany that use DCF-77 for time
> set/synchronization.  Needless to say, here in the states I can't use DCF-77.
> I have see a number of GPS -> DCF-77 converters, but since I have a GPS synced
> NTP server, I'd rather just pull time from the client Linux box next to my
> desk.  Does anyone have or know of a USB or serial device that can output a
> DCF-77 signal to a number of clocks (4)?

I haven't looked whether someone from Meinberg replied, but I know that
Meinberg hat DCF-77 test _senders_ for those who cared about the
millenium bug (which our Meinberg clock did not have). Maybe have a look
at Meinberg's web site...

Ulrich

>
> Thanks in advance.

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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Rob van der Putten]

Hi there


pc wrote:

> FWIW, it's possible that the antenna/receiver modules are manufactured
> by this company:
> 
> http://www.hkw-elektronik.de/

http://www.hkw-elektronik.de/englisch/products/products.php
http://www.hkw-elektronik.de/englisch/products/assemblys.php


Regards,
Rob
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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[pc]

FWIW, it's possible that the antenna/receiver modules are manufactured
by this company:

http://www.hkw-elektronik.de/

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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Rob van der Putten]

Hi there


Rob van der Putten wrote:

> This will probably work;
> 
>+-> DATA
>|
>|
>|  /  c
> +-+  b |/
>   TXD >-+ 4k7 +--*-*---|BC547B
> +-+  | |   |\
>  | |   |  \| e
>  | |  -|
> +++  --+-- |
>   47 kΩ | |   /|\  |
> | |  --+-- |
> +++| 1N|
>  | | 4148  |
>  | |   |
>  | |   |
>   GND >--*-*---*-> GND

If you want to build four, just multiply the resistor values by four (it 
will probably still work with 10 x these values).

> You have to write software to drive it.

This is for a parallel port;
http://www.captain.at/rtai-dcf77-simulator.php


Regards,
Rob
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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Rob van der Putten]

Hi there


Pete Ashdown wrote:

> The clocks take input from a module like this:
> 
> http://clausurbach.de/shop/product_info.php?info=p50_dcf77-module-for-our-nixie-clock-kits.html
> 
> It looks pretty much line an antenna to me.  So what I'd like is a preferably
> cheap option to duplicate that signal to wire directly to the clocks instead,
> sourcing from my Linux box.

This will probably work;

+-> DATA
|
|
|  /  c
 +-+  b |/
   TXD >-+ 4k7 +--*-*---|BC547B
 +-+  | |   |\
  | |   |  \| e
  | |  -|
 +++  --+-- |
   47 kΩ | |   /|\  |
 | |  --+-- |
 +++| 1N|
  | | 4148  |
  | |   |
  | |   |
   GND >--*-*---*-> GND

You have to write software to drive it.


Regards,
Rob
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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[John Hasler]

Pete Ashdown writes:
> The clocks take input from a module like this:

> http://clausurbach.de/shop/product_info.php?info=p50_dcf77-module-for-our-nixie-clock-kits.html

> It looks pretty much line an antenna to me.

That's a complete radio receiver, including antenna.  There is an IC, a
crystal (used as a filter), and a few discrete components on the board.
The output will be raw DCF77 baseband data.

> It looks pretty much line an antenna to me.  So what I'd like is a
> preferably cheap option to duplicate that signal to wire directly to
> the clocks instead, sourcing from my Linux box.

The bit rate is one bit per second.  Emulate it in
software. 
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Pete Ashdown]

pc  writes:

>When you write "...device that can output a
>DCF-77 signal to a number of clocks" do you mean
>the coded bitstream (aka 'telegram') or the modulated
>77.5kHz RF signal?

The clocks take input from a module like this:

http://clausurbach.de/shop/product_info.php?info=p50_dcf77-module-for-our-nixie-clock-kits.html

It looks pretty much line an antenna to me.  So what I'd like is a preferably
cheap option to duplicate that signal to wire directly to the clocks instead,
sourcing from my Linux box.
-- 


Pete Ashdown  pashd...@xmission.com  http://pashdown.org  Salt Lake City, Utah
 XMission Internet Access - http://xmission.com - Voice: 801 539 0852

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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[pc]

Pete,

When you write "...device that can output a
DCF-77 signal to a number of clocks" do you mean
the coded bitstream (aka 'telegram') or the modulated
77.5kHz RF signal?

Paul

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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Uwe Klein]

Rob van der Putten wrote:
> Hi there
> 
> 
> Pete Ashdown wrote:
> 
>> I've bought a number of clocks from Germany that use DCF-77 for time
>> set/synchronization.  Needless to say, here in the states I can't use 
>> DCF-77.
>> I have see a number of GPS -> DCF-77 converters, but since I have a 
>> GPS synced
>> NTP server, I'd rather just pull time from the client Linux box next 
>> to my
>> desk.  Does anyone have or know of a USB or serial device that can 
>> output a
>> DCF-77 signal to a number of clocks (4)?
> 
> 
> You could send a series of pulses from a serial port to the clocks.
> 
My assumption was that Pete Ashdown is a collector. Or at least bought
the clocks as collectibles.
So taking them apart to fiddle with the innards is not the prefered option
while providing an "old european" limited DCF77 environment would help

uwe

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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[David Lord]

John Hasler wrote:
> David writes:
>> If you can find the type of receiver chip and see the xtal and aerial
>> connections it's probably worth looking up if chip will pickup WWV. I
>> can't find my Conrad data but I think that also does WWV (output is
>> just demodulated carrier).
> 
> I assume you mean WWVB .

Yes WWVB

Actually I thought I'd cancelled that message within a minute of
posting as although the Conrad will demodulate DCF/MSF and others
there is no decoding which is probably more important seeing
they are clocks.

I know some chips have ability to also decode several of the
various time signals but can't locate thoe datasheets I downloaded.

Anyway the post obviously got out.


David

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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Rob van der Putten]

Hi there


Uwe Klein wrote:

> a generic serialport sending with 50 or 25 Baud that switches a 77.5kHz 
> modulation signal to 75% ?

It might be possible to drive the clocks with a TTL signal.

> ( and a little bit of code that sends the DCF code bits every second )

With a PLL you can start the pulse on the second.


Regards,
Rob
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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Rob van der Putten]

Hi there


Pete Ashdown wrote:

> I've bought a number of clocks from Germany that use DCF-77 for time
> set/synchronization.  Needless to say, here in the states I can't use DCF-77.
> I have see a number of GPS -> DCF-77 converters, but since I have a GPS synced
> NTP server, I'd rather just pull time from the client Linux box next to my
> desk.  Does anyone have or know of a USB or serial device that can output a
> DCF-77 signal to a number of clocks (4)?

You could send a series of pulses from a serial port to the clocks.


Regards,
Rob
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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Uwe Klein]

Pete Ashdown wrote:
> I've bought a number of clocks from Germany that use DCF-77 for time
> set/synchronization.  Needless to say, here in the states I can't use DCF-77.
> I have see a number of GPS -> DCF-77 converters, but since I have a GPS synced
> NTP server, I'd rather just pull time from the client Linux box next to my
> desk.  Does anyone have or know of a USB or serial device that can output a
> DCF-77 signal to a number of clocks (4)?
Hmm,

a generic serialport sending with 50 or 25 Baud that switches a 77.5kHz 
modulation
signal to 75% ?
( and a little bit of code that sends the DCF code bits every second )

 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCF77

uwe

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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[pc]

Another possibility would be to use the output from your Linux box
as input to a Meinberg GEN77, then feed the output of the
GEN77, i.e. the DCF77 code bits, into a SIM77P.

Paul

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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[Rob van der Putten]

Hi there


David Lord wrote:

> Conrad DCF77 module here works ok on MSF. I had to swap xtal and aerial.
> If you can find the type of receiver chip and see the xtal and aerial 
> connections it's probably worth looking up if chip will pickup WWV. I
> can't find my Conrad data but I think that also does WWV (output is
> just demodulated carrier).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCF77
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWV_(radio_station)


Regards,
Rob
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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[pc]

You could try combining these two Meinberg modules:

http://www.meinberg.de/english/products/gps170.htm

http://www.meinberg.de/english/products/sim77p.htm

Paul

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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[David J Taylor]

"John Hasler" <> wrote in message 
news:871vmh9dpt@thumper.dhh.gt.org...
> David writes:
>> If you can find the type of receiver chip and see the xtal and aerial
>> connections it's probably worth looking up if chip will pickup WWV. I
>> can't find my Conrad data but I think that also does WWV (output is
>> just demodulated carrier).
>
> I assume you mean WWVB .
> -- 
> John Hasler
> j...@dhh.gt.org
> Dancing Horse Hill
> Elmwood, WI USA

"David writes"  ?

Whatever David wrote didn't make it to the NNTP newsgroup - at least not 
here, or not yet.

Cheers,
David (a different David!) 

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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[David Lord]

Pete Ashdown wrote:
> I've bought a number of clocks from Germany that use DCF-77 for time
> set/synchronization.  Needless to say, here in the states I can't use DCF-77.
> I have see a number of GPS -> DCF-77 converters, but since I have a GPS synced
> NTP server, I'd rather just pull time from the client Linux box next to my
> desk.  Does anyone have or know of a USB or serial device that can output a
> DCF-77 signal to a number of clocks (4)?
> 
> Thanks in advance.

Conrad DCF77 module here works ok on MSF. I had to swap xtal and aerial.
If you can find the type of receiver chip and see the xtal and aerial 
connections it's probably worth looking up if chip will pickup WWV. I
can't find my Conrad data but I think that also does WWV (output is
just demodulated carrier).


David

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Re: [ntp:questions] PC DCF-77 signal emulation?

[John Hasler]

David writes:
> If you can find the type of receiver chip and see the xtal and aerial
> connections it's probably worth looking up if chip will pickup WWV. I
> can't find my Conrad data but I think that also does WWV (output is
> just demodulated carrier).

I assume you mean WWVB .
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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