Re: [R] Gender balance in R
On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Martin Morgan wrote: > On 11/25/2014 04:11 AM, Scott Kostyshak wrote: >> >> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Sarah Goslee >> wrote: >>> >>> I took a look at apparent gender among list participants a few years ago: >>> https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2011-June/280272.html >>> >>> Same general thing: very few regular participants on the list were >>> women. I don't see any sign that that has changed in the last three >>> years. The bar to participation in the R-help list is much, much lower >>> than that to become a developer. >> >> >> I plotted the gender of posters on r-help over time. The plot is here: >> https://twitter.com/scottkosty/status/449933971644633088 >> >> The code to reproduce that plot is here: >> https://github.com/scottkosty/genderAnalysis >> The R file there will call devtools::install_github to install a >> package from Github used for guessing the gender based on the first >> name (https://github.com/scottkosty/gender). > > > It would be great to include in your package the script that scraped author > names from R-help archives (I guess that's what you did?). Presumably it > easily applies to other mailing lists hosted at the same location (R-devel, > further along the ladder from user to developer, and Bioconductor / > Bioc-devel, in a different domain and perhaps confounded with a different > 'feel' to the list). Also the R community is definitely international, so > finding more versatile gender-assignment approaches seems important. I just put the script up on https://github.com/scottkosty/genderAnalysis I don't have much time at the moment to generalize it, but a pull request is always welcome. Alternatively, anyone is welcome (at least as far as I'm concerned) to take the script and modify it for any purpose. > it might be interesting to ask about participation in mailing list forums > versus other, and in particular the recent Bioconductor transition from > mailing list to 'StackOverflow' style support forum > (https://support.bioconductor.org) -- on the one hand the 'gamification' > elements might seem to only entrench male participation, while on the other > we have already seen increased (quantifiable) and broader (subjective) > participation from the Bioconductor community. I'd be happy to make support > site usage data available, and am interested in collaborating in an > academically well-founded analysis of this data; any interested parties > please feel free to contact me off-list. I would be interested in collaborating on such a project in the future also. Scott -- Scott Kostyshak Economics PhD Candidate Princeton University > > Martin Morgan > Bioconductor > > >> >> Note also on that tweet that Gabriela de Queiroz posted it, who is the >> founder of R-ladies; and that David Smith showed interest in >> discussing the topic. So there is definitely demand for some data >> analysis and discussion on the topic. >> >>> It would be interesting to look at the stats for CRAN packages as well. >>> >>> The very low percentage of regular female participants is one of the >>> things that keeps me active on this list: to demonstrate that it's not >>> only men who use R and participate in the community. >> >> >> Thank you for that! >> >> Scott >> >> >> -- >> Scott Kostyshak >> Economics PhD Candidate >> Princeton University >> >>> (If you decide to do the stats for 2014, be aware that I've been out >>> on medical leave for the past two months, so the numbers are even >>> lower than usual.) >>> >>> Sarah >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Maarten Blaauw >>> wrote: Hi there, I can't help to notice that the gender balance among R developers and ordinary members is extremely skewed (as it is with open source software in general). Have a look at http://www.r-project.org/foundation/memberlist.html - at most a handful of women are listed among the 'supporting members', and none at all among the 29 'ordinary members'. On the other hand I personally know many happy R users of both genders. My questions are thus: Should R developers (and users) be worried that the 'other half' is excluded? If so, how could female R users/developers be persuaded to become more visible (e.g. added as supporting or ordinary members)? Thanks, Maarten >>> -- >>> Sarah Goslee >>> http://www.functionaldiversity.org >>> >>> __ >>> R-help@r-project.org mailing list >>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >>> PLEASE do read the posting guide >>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >> >> >> __ >> R-help@r-project.org mailing list >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >> PLEASE do read the posting guide >> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >> and
Re: [R] Gender balance in R
On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Maarten Blaauw
wrote:
> Nice graph, Scott, thanks!
>
> Based on your code I plotted not the absolute numbers but the ratios, which
> show slowly increasing relative participation of female Rhelpers over time
> (red = women, blue=men, black=unknown). After a c. 5% female contribution in
> 1998, this has grown to about 15% now. At this rate we'll reach parity
> around AD 2080.
Interesting forecasts Maarten! Let's hope for a trend break to make them wrong.
Scott
--
Scott Kostyshak
Economics PhD Candidate
Princeton University
> My code:
>
> if (!require(gender)) {
> library(devtools)
> install_github("scottkosty/gender")
> library(gender)
> }
> rHelp <- rHelpNames
> rHelp[is.na(rHelp$gender), "gender"] <- "unknown"
>
> yr <- unique(rHelp$year)
>
> helpers <- list(dates, M=rep(0, length(yr)), F=rep(0, length(yr)),
> unkn=rep(0, length(yr)))
>
> for(i in 1:nrow(rHelp))
> {
> j <- which(yr == rHelp$year[i])
> gender <- rHelp$gender[i]
> if(gender == "M")
>helpers$M[[j]] <- helpers$M[[j]]+1 else
> if(gender == "F")
> helpers$F[[j]] <- helpers$F[[j]]+1 else
> if(gender == "unknown")
>helpers$unkn[[j]] <- helpers$unkn[[j]]+1
> }
> plot(yr, helpers$M / (helpers$M+helpers$F+helpers$unkn), type="l", col=4,
> ylim=c(0,1), ylab="proportions", yaxs="i")
> lines(yr, helpers$F / (helpers$M+helpers$F+helpers$unkn), col=2)
> lines(yr, helpers$unkn / (helpers$M+helpers$F+helpers$unkn))
>
> Cheers,
>
> Maarten
>
>
> On 25/11/14 12:11, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Sarah Goslee
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I took a look at apparent gender among list participants a few years ago:
>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2011-June/280272.html
>>>
>>> Same general thing: very few regular participants on the list were
>>> women. I don't see any sign that that has changed in the last three
>>> years. The bar to participation in the R-help list is much, much lower
>>> than that to become a developer.
>>
>>
>> I plotted the gender of posters on r-help over time. The plot is here:
>> https://twitter.com/scottkosty/status/449933971644633088
>>
>> The code to reproduce that plot is here:
>> https://github.com/scottkosty/genderAnalysis
>> The R file there will call devtools::install_github to install a
>> package from Github used for guessing the gender based on the first
>> name (https://github.com/scottkosty/gender).
>>
>> Note also on that tweet that Gabriela de Queiroz posted it, who is the
>> founder of R-ladies; and that David Smith showed interest in
>> discussing the topic. So there is definitely demand for some data
>> analysis and discussion on the topic.
>>
>>> It would be interesting to look at the stats for CRAN packages as well.
>>>
>>> The very low percentage of regular female participants is one of the
>>> things that keeps me active on this list: to demonstrate that it's not
>>> only men who use R and participate in the community.
>>
>>
>> Thank you for that!
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Kostyshak
>> Economics PhD Candidate
>> Princeton University
>>
>>> (If you decide to do the stats for 2014, be aware that I've been out
>>> on medical leave for the past two months, so the numbers are even
>>> lower than usual.)
>>>
>>> Sarah
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Maarten Blaauw
>>> wrote:
Hi there,
I can't help to notice that the gender balance among R developers and
ordinary members is extremely skewed (as it is with open source software
in
general).
Have a look at http://www.r-project.org/foundation/memberlist.html - at
most
a handful of women are listed among the 'supporting members', and none
at
all among the 29 'ordinary members'.
On the other hand I personally know many happy R users of both genders.
My questions are thus: Should R developers (and users) be worried that
the
'other half' is excluded? If so, how could female R users/developers be
persuaded to become more visible (e.g. added as supporting or ordinary
members)?
Thanks,
Maarten
>>> --
>>> Sarah Goslee
>>> http://www.functionaldiversity.org
>>>
>>> __
>>> R-help@r-project.org mailing list
>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>
>
> --
> | Dr. Maarten Blaauw
> | Lecturer in Chronology
> |
> | School of Geography, Archaeology & Palaeoecology
> | Queen's University Belfast, UK
> |
> | www http://www.chrono.qub.ac.uk/blaauw
> | tel +44 (0)28 9097 3895
__
R-help@r-project.org mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Gender balance in R
On 11/25/2014 04:11 AM, Scott Kostyshak wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Sarah Goslee wrote: I took a look at apparent gender among list participants a few years ago: https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2011-June/280272.html Same general thing: very few regular participants on the list were women. I don't see any sign that that has changed in the last three years. The bar to participation in the R-help list is much, much lower than that to become a developer. I plotted the gender of posters on r-help over time. The plot is here: https://twitter.com/scottkosty/status/449933971644633088 The code to reproduce that plot is here: https://github.com/scottkosty/genderAnalysis The R file there will call devtools::install_github to install a package from Github used for guessing the gender based on the first name (https://github.com/scottkosty/gender). It would be great to include in your package the script that scraped author names from R-help archives (I guess that's what you did?). Presumably it easily applies to other mailing lists hosted at the same location (R-devel, further along the ladder from user to developer, and Bioconductor / Bioc-devel, in a different domain and perhaps confounded with a different 'feel' to the list). Also the R community is definitely international, so finding more versatile gender-assignment approaches seems important. it might be interesting to ask about participation in mailing list forums versus other, and in particular the recent Bioconductor transition from mailing list to 'StackOverflow' style support forum (https://support.bioconductor.org) -- on the one hand the 'gamification' elements might seem to only entrench male participation, while on the other we have already seen increased (quantifiable) and broader (subjective) participation from the Bioconductor community. I'd be happy to make support site usage data available, and am interested in collaborating in an academically well-founded analysis of this data; any interested parties please feel free to contact me off-list. Martin Morgan Bioconductor Note also on that tweet that Gabriela de Queiroz posted it, who is the founder of R-ladies; and that David Smith showed interest in discussing the topic. So there is definitely demand for some data analysis and discussion on the topic. It would be interesting to look at the stats for CRAN packages as well. The very low percentage of regular female participants is one of the things that keeps me active on this list: to demonstrate that it's not only men who use R and participate in the community. Thank you for that! Scott -- Scott Kostyshak Economics PhD Candidate Princeton University (If you decide to do the stats for 2014, be aware that I've been out on medical leave for the past two months, so the numbers are even lower than usual.) Sarah On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Maarten Blaauw wrote: Hi there, I can't help to notice that the gender balance among R developers and ordinary members is extremely skewed (as it is with open source software in general). Have a look at http://www.r-project.org/foundation/memberlist.html - at most a handful of women are listed among the 'supporting members', and none at all among the 29 'ordinary members'. On the other hand I personally know many happy R users of both genders. My questions are thus: Should R developers (and users) be worried that the 'other half' is excluded? If so, how could female R users/developers be persuaded to become more visible (e.g. added as supporting or ordinary members)? Thanks, Maarten -- Sarah Goslee http://www.functionaldiversity.org __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. -- Computational Biology / Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center 1100 Fairview Ave. N. PO Box 19024 Seattle, WA 98109 Location: Arnold Building M1 B861 Phone: (206) 667-2793 __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Gender balance in R
I just saw this comment and I agree with Peter. I have occasion to ask questions and get help on the R forum but I am not a programmer and use programs as I need them and I suppose I must comment more often. :) On 11/25/14, 11:28 AM, "peter dalgaard" wrote: > >On 24 Nov 2014, at 18:34 , Sarah Goslee wrote: > >> I took a look at apparent gender among list participants a few years >>ago: >> https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2011-June/280272.html >> >> Same general thing: very few regular participants on the list were >> women. I don't see any sign that that has changed in the last three >> years. The bar to participation in the R-help list is much, much lower >> than that to become a developer. >> >> It would be interesting to look at the stats for CRAN packages as well. >> >> The very low percentage of regular female participants is one of the >> things that keeps me active on this list: to demonstrate that it's not >> only men who use R and participate in the community. >> >> (If you decide to do the stats for 2014, be aware that I've been out >> on medical leave for the past two months, so the numbers are even >> lower than usual.) > > >...and very welcome back!!! (I did notice the chronicles on your blog). > >Re. the gender issue, it is certainly not that women aren't welcome, it's >more that they aren't there. There are various potential reasons that >come to mind, but it easily ends up in speculation and stereotyping. > >It is a bit of an embarrasment and people are discussing what to do about >it, but some of the countermeasures have a tendency to backfire, so we >need to be a little careful. > >- Peter D. > > >> >> Sarah >> >> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Maarten Blaauw >> wrote: >>> Hi there, >>> >>> I can't help to notice that the gender balance among R developers and >>> ordinary members is extremely skewed (as it is with open source >>>software in >>> general). >>> >>> Have a look at http://www.r-project.org/foundation/memberlist.html - >>>at most >>> a handful of women are listed among the 'supporting members', and none >>>at >>> all among the 29 'ordinary members'. >>> >>> On the other hand I personally know many happy R users of both genders. >>> >>> My questions are thus: Should R developers (and users) be worried that >>>the >>> 'other half' is excluded? If so, how could female R users/developers be >>> persuaded to become more visible (e.g. added as supporting or ordinary >>> members)? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Maarten >>> >> -- >> Sarah Goslee >> http://www.functionaldiversity.org >> >> __ >> R-help@r-project.org mailing list >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >> PLEASE do read the posting guide >>http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > >-- >Peter Dalgaard, Professor, >Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School >Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark >Phone: (+45)38153501 >Email: pd@cbs.dk Priv: pda...@gmail.com > >__ >R-help@r-project.org mailing list >https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >PLEASE do read the posting guide >http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Gender balance in R
Nice graph, Scott, thanks!
Based on your code I plotted not the absolute numbers but the ratios,
which show slowly increasing relative participation of female Rhelpers
over time (red = women, blue=men, black=unknown). After a c. 5% female
contribution in 1998, this has grown to about 15% now. At this rate
we'll reach parity around AD 2080.
My code:
if (!require(gender)) {
library(devtools)
install_github("scottkosty/gender")
library(gender)
}
rHelp <- rHelpNames
rHelp[is.na(rHelp$gender), "gender"] <- "unknown"
yr <- unique(rHelp$year)
helpers <- list(dates, M=rep(0, length(yr)), F=rep(0, length(yr)),
unkn=rep(0, length(yr)))
for(i in 1:nrow(rHelp))
{
j <- which(yr == rHelp$year[i])
gender <- rHelp$gender[i]
if(gender == "M")
helpers$M[[j]] <- helpers$M[[j]]+1 else
if(gender == "F")
helpers$F[[j]] <- helpers$F[[j]]+1 else
if(gender == "unknown")
helpers$unkn[[j]] <- helpers$unkn[[j]]+1
}
plot(yr, helpers$M / (helpers$M+helpers$F+helpers$unkn), type="l",
col=4, ylim=c(0,1), ylab="proportions", yaxs="i")
lines(yr, helpers$F / (helpers$M+helpers$F+helpers$unkn), col=2)
lines(yr, helpers$unkn / (helpers$M+helpers$F+helpers$unkn))
Cheers,
Maarten
On 25/11/14 12:11, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Sarah Goslee wrote:
I took a look at apparent gender among list participants a few years ago:
https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2011-June/280272.html
Same general thing: very few regular participants on the list were
women. I don't see any sign that that has changed in the last three
years. The bar to participation in the R-help list is much, much lower
than that to become a developer.
I plotted the gender of posters on r-help over time. The plot is here:
https://twitter.com/scottkosty/status/449933971644633088
The code to reproduce that plot is here:
https://github.com/scottkosty/genderAnalysis
The R file there will call devtools::install_github to install a
package from Github used for guessing the gender based on the first
name (https://github.com/scottkosty/gender).
Note also on that tweet that Gabriela de Queiroz posted it, who is the
founder of R-ladies; and that David Smith showed interest in
discussing the topic. So there is definitely demand for some data
analysis and discussion on the topic.
It would be interesting to look at the stats for CRAN packages as well.
The very low percentage of regular female participants is one of the
things that keeps me active on this list: to demonstrate that it's not
only men who use R and participate in the community.
Thank you for that!
Scott
--
Scott Kostyshak
Economics PhD Candidate
Princeton University
(If you decide to do the stats for 2014, be aware that I've been out
on medical leave for the past two months, so the numbers are even
lower than usual.)
Sarah
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Maarten Blaauw
wrote:
Hi there,
I can't help to notice that the gender balance among R developers and
ordinary members is extremely skewed (as it is with open source software in
general).
Have a look at http://www.r-project.org/foundation/memberlist.html - at most
a handful of women are listed among the 'supporting members', and none at
all among the 29 'ordinary members'.
On the other hand I personally know many happy R users of both genders.
My questions are thus: Should R developers (and users) be worried that the
'other half' is excluded? If so, how could female R users/developers be
persuaded to become more visible (e.g. added as supporting or ordinary
members)?
Thanks,
Maarten
--
Sarah Goslee
http://www.functionaldiversity.org
__
R-help@r-project.org mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
--
| Dr. Maarten Blaauw
| Lecturer in Chronology
|
| School of Geography, Archaeology & Palaeoecology
| Queen's University Belfast, UK
|
| www http://www.chrono.qub.ac.uk/blaauw
| tel +44 (0)28 9097 3895
gendeR.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
__
R-help@r-project.org mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Gender balance in R
Thanks for the responses so far. > The gender ratio in R should reflect the gender ratio of the potential > users, as this is the pool the R users / developers are coming from. I agree with this, but then again I don't think R really has 0% female users/developers as the R member list suggests. I'd rather expect to see 10-50% women (my quick guess of gender balance in STEM areas, depending on where on the ladder and in which country one samples). Perhaps the R community should be assessing if there's some additional bias applied during the selection of supporting or ordinary members? Cheers, Maarten On 25/11/14 09:15, Rainer M Krug wrote: Sarah Goslee writes: I took a look at apparent gender among list participants a few years ago: https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2011-June/280272.html Same general thing: very few regular participants on the list were women. I don't see any sign that that has changed in the last three years. The bar to participation in the R-help list is much, much lower than that to become a developer. It would be interesting to look at the stats for CRAN packages as well. The very low percentage of regular female participants is one of the things that keeps me active on this list: to demonstrate that it's not only men who use R and participate in the community. Apart from that, your input is very valuable and your answers very hands-on helpful - and this is why I am glad that you are on the list - and not because you are female. Looking at R developers / CRAN package developers / list posts gender ratios might be interesting, but I don't think it tells you anything: If there is a skewed ratio in any of these, the question is if this is the gender ratio in the user base and, more importantly, in the pool of potential users. I have no idea about the gender ratios in potential users, but I would guess that some disciplines already have a skewed gender ratio, which is then reflected in R. The gender ratio in R should reflect the gender ratio of the potential users, as this is the pool the R users / developers are coming from. As long as nobody is excluded because of their gender, background, hair or eye color, OS usage, or whatever ridiculous excuse one could find, I think R will thrive. Don't get me wring - nothing against promoting R to new user groups. But anyway - interesting question. I was teaching True Basic for several years, and I definitely did not see a gender bias in their programming abilities - the differences was in many cases that males thought they could do it, and females thought they could not do it because it involves maths... But I was able to prove quite a few wrong. Cheers, Rainer (If you decide to do the stats for 2014, be aware that I've been out on medical leave for the past two months, so the numbers are even lower than usual.) Sarah On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Maarten Blaauw wrote: Hi there, I can't help to notice that the gender balance among R developers and ordinary members is extremely skewed (as it is with open source software in general). Have a look at http://www.r-project.org/foundation/memberlist.html - at most a handful of women are listed among the 'supporting members', and none at all among the 29 'ordinary members'. On the other hand I personally know many happy R users of both genders. My questions are thus: Should R developers (and users) be worried that the 'other half' is excluded? If so, how could female R users/developers be persuaded to become more visible (e.g. added as supporting or ordinary members)? Thanks, Maarten -- | Dr. Maarten Blaauw | Lecturer in Chronology | | School of Geography, Archaeology & Palaeoecology | Queen's University Belfast, UK | | www http://www.chrono.qub.ac.uk/blaauw | tel +44 (0)28 9097 3895 __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Gender balance in R
On 24 Nov 2014, at 18:34 , Sarah Goslee wrote: > I took a look at apparent gender among list participants a few years ago: > https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2011-June/280272.html > > Same general thing: very few regular participants on the list were > women. I don't see any sign that that has changed in the last three > years. The bar to participation in the R-help list is much, much lower > than that to become a developer. > > It would be interesting to look at the stats for CRAN packages as well. > > The very low percentage of regular female participants is one of the > things that keeps me active on this list: to demonstrate that it's not > only men who use R and participate in the community. > > (If you decide to do the stats for 2014, be aware that I've been out > on medical leave for the past two months, so the numbers are even > lower than usual.) ...and very welcome back!!! (I did notice the chronicles on your blog). Re. the gender issue, it is certainly not that women aren't welcome, it's more that they aren't there. There are various potential reasons that come to mind, but it easily ends up in speculation and stereotyping. It is a bit of an embarrasment and people are discussing what to do about it, but some of the countermeasures have a tendency to backfire, so we need to be a little careful. - Peter D. > > Sarah > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Maarten Blaauw > wrote: >> Hi there, >> >> I can't help to notice that the gender balance among R developers and >> ordinary members is extremely skewed (as it is with open source software in >> general). >> >> Have a look at http://www.r-project.org/foundation/memberlist.html - at most >> a handful of women are listed among the 'supporting members', and none at >> all among the 29 'ordinary members'. >> >> On the other hand I personally know many happy R users of both genders. >> >> My questions are thus: Should R developers (and users) be worried that the >> 'other half' is excluded? If so, how could female R users/developers be >> persuaded to become more visible (e.g. added as supporting or ordinary >> members)? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Maarten >> > -- > Sarah Goslee > http://www.functionaldiversity.org > > __ > R-help@r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. -- Peter Dalgaard, Professor, Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark Phone: (+45)38153501 Email: pd@cbs.dk Priv: pda...@gmail.com __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Gender balance in R
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Sarah Goslee wrote: > I took a look at apparent gender among list participants a few years ago: > https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2011-June/280272.html > > Same general thing: very few regular participants on the list were > women. I don't see any sign that that has changed in the last three > years. The bar to participation in the R-help list is much, much lower > than that to become a developer. I plotted the gender of posters on r-help over time. The plot is here: https://twitter.com/scottkosty/status/449933971644633088 The code to reproduce that plot is here: https://github.com/scottkosty/genderAnalysis The R file there will call devtools::install_github to install a package from Github used for guessing the gender based on the first name (https://github.com/scottkosty/gender). Note also on that tweet that Gabriela de Queiroz posted it, who is the founder of R-ladies; and that David Smith showed interest in discussing the topic. So there is definitely demand for some data analysis and discussion on the topic. > It would be interesting to look at the stats for CRAN packages as well. > > The very low percentage of regular female participants is one of the > things that keeps me active on this list: to demonstrate that it's not > only men who use R and participate in the community. Thank you for that! Scott -- Scott Kostyshak Economics PhD Candidate Princeton University > (If you decide to do the stats for 2014, be aware that I've been out > on medical leave for the past two months, so the numbers are even > lower than usual.) > > Sarah > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Maarten Blaauw > wrote: >> Hi there, >> >> I can't help to notice that the gender balance among R developers and >> ordinary members is extremely skewed (as it is with open source software in >> general). >> >> Have a look at http://www.r-project.org/foundation/memberlist.html - at most >> a handful of women are listed among the 'supporting members', and none at >> all among the 29 'ordinary members'. >> >> On the other hand I personally know many happy R users of both genders. >> >> My questions are thus: Should R developers (and users) be worried that the >> 'other half' is excluded? If so, how could female R users/developers be >> persuaded to become more visible (e.g. added as supporting or ordinary >> members)? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Maarten >> > -- > Sarah Goslee > http://www.functionaldiversity.org > > __ > R-help@r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Gender balance in R
Sarah Goslee writes: > I took a look at apparent gender among list participants a few years ago: > https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2011-June/280272.html > > Same general thing: very few regular participants on the list were > women. I don't see any sign that that has changed in the last three > years. The bar to participation in the R-help list is much, much lower > than that to become a developer. > > It would be interesting to look at the stats for CRAN packages as well. > > The very low percentage of regular female participants is one of the > things that keeps me active on this list: to demonstrate that it's not > only men who use R and participate in the community. Apart from that, your input is very valuable and your answers very hands-on helpful - and this is why I am glad that you are on the list - and not because you are female. Looking at R developers / CRAN package developers / list posts gender ratios might be interesting, but I don't think it tells you anything: If there is a skewed ratio in any of these, the question is if this is the gender ratio in the user base and, more importantly, in the pool of potential users. I have no idea about the gender ratios in potential users, but I would guess that some disciplines already have a skewed gender ratio, which is then reflected in R. The gender ratio in R should reflect the gender ratio of the potential users, as this is the pool the R users / developers are coming from. As long as nobody is excluded because of their gender, background, hair or eye color, OS usage, or whatever ridiculous excuse one could find, I think R will thrive. Don't get me wring - nothing against promoting R to new user groups. But anyway - interesting question. I was teaching True Basic for several years, and I definitely did not see a gender bias in their programming abilities - the differences was in many cases that males thought they could do it, and females thought they could not do it because it involves maths... But I was able to prove quite a few wrong. Cheers, Rainer > > (If you decide to do the stats for 2014, be aware that I've been out > on medical leave for the past two months, so the numbers are even > lower than usual.) > > Sarah > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Maarten Blaauw > wrote: >> Hi there, >> >> I can't help to notice that the gender balance among R developers and >> ordinary members is extremely skewed (as it is with open source software in >> general). >> >> Have a look at http://www.r-project.org/foundation/memberlist.html - at most >> a handful of women are listed among the 'supporting members', and none at >> all among the 29 'ordinary members'. >> >> On the other hand I personally know many happy R users of both genders. >> >> My questions are thus: Should R developers (and users) be worried that the >> 'other half' is excluded? If so, how could female R users/developers be >> persuaded to become more visible (e.g. added as supporting or ordinary >> members)? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Maarten >> -- Rainer M. Krug email: Rainerkrugsde PGP: 0x0F52F982 signature.asc Description: PGP signature __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Gender balance in R
I took a look at apparent gender among list participants a few years ago: https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2011-June/280272.html Same general thing: very few regular participants on the list were women. I don't see any sign that that has changed in the last three years. The bar to participation in the R-help list is much, much lower than that to become a developer. It would be interesting to look at the stats for CRAN packages as well. The very low percentage of regular female participants is one of the things that keeps me active on this list: to demonstrate that it's not only men who use R and participate in the community. (If you decide to do the stats for 2014, be aware that I've been out on medical leave for the past two months, so the numbers are even lower than usual.) Sarah On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Maarten Blaauw wrote: > Hi there, > > I can't help to notice that the gender balance among R developers and > ordinary members is extremely skewed (as it is with open source software in > general). > > Have a look at http://www.r-project.org/foundation/memberlist.html - at most > a handful of women are listed among the 'supporting members', and none at > all among the 29 'ordinary members'. > > On the other hand I personally know many happy R users of both genders. > > My questions are thus: Should R developers (and users) be worried that the > 'other half' is excluded? If so, how could female R users/developers be > persuaded to become more visible (e.g. added as supporting or ordinary > members)? > > Thanks, > > Maarten > -- Sarah Goslee http://www.functionaldiversity.org __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
[R] Gender balance in R
Hi there, I can't help to notice that the gender balance among R developers and ordinary members is extremely skewed (as it is with open source software in general). Have a look at http://www.r-project.org/foundation/memberlist.html - at most a handful of women are listed among the 'supporting members', and none at all among the 29 'ordinary members'. On the other hand I personally know many happy R users of both genders. My questions are thus: Should R developers (and users) be worried that the 'other half' is excluded? If so, how could female R users/developers be persuaded to become more visible (e.g. added as supporting or ordinary members)? Thanks, Maarten -- | Dr. Maarten Blaauw | Lecturer in Chronology | | School of Geography, Archaeology & Palaeoecology | Queen's University Belfast, UK | | www http://www.chrono.qub.ac.uk/blaauw | tel +44 (0)28 9097 3895 __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
