[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Yogurt]

Wow! I like this idea, especially since it would be different from
other Rivendells and other bikes.  I hope they do it.  I wonder if
they'll do the same for the smaller sizes.

On Apr 5, 9:01 am, William  wrote:
> No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy.
>
> On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:
> > > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced.  Jars my view
> > > too much.  Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike.  Fine.  I'm
> > > fat.  That's been established.  Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> > > riding a "special" bike.
>
> > > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> > > original Breezer, that might work.  That's a copy of the Schwinn
> > > Excelsior frame.
>
> > > Also, on a slightly different note.  With the center tube, would make
> > > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without
> > > interference.  At least on a 58.  And forget using a pump with a mount
> > > like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> > > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
> > > Without the extra standover.
>
> > > Yes, I'm upset about this.  Will probably end up losing a lot of money
> > > selling off my frame without building it up.  Not something I can live
> > > happily with.
>
> > > Sigh.
>
> > > Eric Platt
> > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > Eric,
>
> > If Riv makes the change, I would just call them.  I would not be suprised if
> > they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the
> > change to the top tube.
>
> > Dan Abelson
> > St. Paul, MN

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[RBW] Romulus 59 CM - BicycleR Evolution Trailer - Extras O' plenty

[mi...@thunderconstruction.com]

Its on the Seattle CL site.
But that sharp bike is in Portland right now although I will be up
north again this week
and it deserves the widest audience possible.

Beth H. has not seen this ride in person, but I would like to thank
her for some guidance she gave over the phone.

So would someone please take advantage of the fact that I bought a
frame set AT LEAST 2 cm too damn large.
And who wants to do that on the acquisition of a rivendell.

Why the is rest included, because the next one may very well be a
track bike.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[rswatson]

On Apr 5, 2010, at 10:27 PM, doug peterson  wrote:

> Paper is good.  It's wonderful to find BQ drop thru the mail slot, a
> bit like Christmas but 4X per year.  An e-mail notice that "your new
> BQ is now available in PDF" wouldn't be the same.  Your current mix
> and balance of topics suits me.  I've learned a lot of interesting
> stuff reading BQ.

I'd pay extra for BQ in PDF!
In my opinion, paper periodicals are almost inexcusable from an environmental 
standpoint. 
I have few PDF Rivendell Readers in my pocket at all times! 

Ryan

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[RBW] SoCal Riv Appreciation Society Ride: May 1 or 2

[Dustin Sharp]

Details posted on the Flickr site:

http://tinyurl.com/yfqjuj9

And for those of you who don't like to click links, you will find the
details below:



OK, this is it folks, the rough riders ride to equal if not beat the best of
the best. You will not be sorry, unless you don't come.

We're going to do a version of the Boulder Creek Loop that the Rough Riders
did last July:

http://www.xo-1.org/2009_07_01_archive.html

This version will be shorter than the original RR version at "only" 40+
miles and 5000 feet of climbing, but will involve more dirt. About 80-85%
dirt. 

We'll start in the hamlet of Descanso and head north up Boulder Creek Road,
as you can see on the map below. However, when we get to Lake Cuyamaca, we
we will head south using fire roads rather than the pavement on route 79.
(Those with skinnier tires or who are feeling tired can still opt for the
pavement of route 79 and end up in the same place).

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/51619

Basically, you get about half the ride on super smooth dirt road and the
second half on fire road with almost no traffic at all. It's about as good
as it gets. The ride itself takes about 5.5hrs+. You will not wish for more.
There is one stop for water and food refueling at the half way point.
Camelback or 3 bottles recommended.

You will climb. 

If you want to take the fire roads in the second half of the ride, something
fatter than 35s is recommended. Otherwise, the pavement may be the better
option.

Yes, yes, Descanso is far from LA. But just pretend you are a hardened
mountain biker. We routinely drive 2.5 hrs up to do the Palm Canyon Epic or
SART. It's worth driving for an epic ride! Don't wuss out and make mountain
bikers laugh at you because you are afraid to drive or commit a whole day
for some nice dirt.

We may look into getting a University of San Diego apt/crash pad if folks
want to drive up the night before. This depends on folks committing to the
ride and expressing an interest in it. If you come the night before, dinner
and beer will be scheduled.

Finally, please let us know if it would make a difference if we do it on May
1 or 2.  Thanks!


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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[Roy Yates]

I also love the charm of getting a BQ in the mail but I still have to
disagree. Bike porn is better in color. In particular, I saw color
pictures online of the Toei that was reviewed in BQ and I felt that
the printed black and white photos really failed to convey the
loveliness of the bike.

On the other hand, I understand that printed color photos are too
expensive. My suggestion would be that BQ articles on new bikes and
equipment have an associated online archive of color photos. These
would give subscribers a better look and would also serve as online
advertising to attract non-subscribers who want to read the details in
BQ about the gear in the online photos.

Apologies kin advance if this is an old idea,
...Roy


On Apr 5, 10:47 pm, Matt Critchlow  wrote:
> completely agree. the B&W is part of the "charm" to me. Great
> magazine!!
>
> On Apr 5, 7:38 pm, Tim McNamara  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 5, 2010, at 4:54 PM, jan_heine wrote:
>
> > > Color would be nice, but it's terribly expensive. We offer color in
> > > our books, which can be sold over a longer period of time, and thus
> > > amortize the cost.
>
> > IMHO the B&W has a certain niftiness that color just doesn't have.  
> > Don't sweat it.

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[RBW] Re: New Grant Post / Tim Wright

[manueljohnacosta]

Awesome video. I've shown this to a handful of people and they said
they could related.

On Apr 5, 3:15 am, EricP  wrote:
> Well, the video does make one think.  And it does make me question
> some fundamental values I hold dear (which is very good).
>
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>
> On Apr 4, 11:10 pm, Michael_S  wrote:
>
>
>
> > That is a very inspirational video. I'm glad there are people out
> > there who help us focus on the right way to live. Of course I am of
> > like mind but it helps reinforce the lifestyle nontheless. Perhaps all
> > of our's goal for tomorrow should be to inspire someone else in this
> > same way.
>
> > ~Mike~
>
> > On Apr 4, 8:16 pm, Brad Gantt  wrote:
>
> > > I just read the Easter post on the Riv homepage. I was intrigued by
> > > Tim Wright who was mentioned in the post. A few clicks later, I found
> > > this short film about Tim and thought others in the Bunch might enjoy
> > > watching it as much as I did.
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeYThaTBaLk-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[manueljohnacosta]

Or you could wait till Rivendell finishes their panniers. Check out
the new post

http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/knothole_post/225
-Manny

On Apr 5, 9:29 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> Thanks for the recommendations.
>
> It looks like Arkel's GT-54 panniers offer the best of both worlds:
> they have a dry sack integrated into the main compartment, which you
> can either use or roll up so it is out of the way.  But they are
> extremely expensive at $380.  I guess you could just buy a dry bag and
> put it in a cheaper non-water proof pannier to get the same benefit.
>
> Here's something I don't understand about the Ortliebs.  I would like
> to get high visibility panniers, like the yellow Ortliebs.  However,
> the back of the panniers is black. Why did Ortlieb do that instead of
> making the whole thing high vis yellow?  That is one thing I like
> about the Arkels: the whole pannier is red and there's lots of
> reflective striping.

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[cm]

Eric-- I say good move and I think most people (including the people
at Riv (warning: speculation)) would do the same thing and that most,
good, honest businesses would WANT to give you your money back. There
is no blame here-- you ordered something and it changed and you no
longer wanted it. That is business. I also say that if you think
something is a half-hearted copy then you should say it, and we as
fans of Riv should listen. Not everything has to be cheerleading. As
long as it is said respectfully, then I think we need to be open to
the good and the bad.

I like the diagon-apillar 58% as much as the regul-apillar.And I dont
get it. And it doesnt seem necessary. And I am not sorry.

Cheers!
cm

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[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[happyriding]

Thanks for the recommendations.

It looks like Arkel's GT-54 panniers offer the best of both worlds:
they have a dry sack integrated into the main compartment, which you
can either use or roll up so it is out of the way.  But they are
extremely expensive at $380.  I guess you could just buy a dry bag and
put it in a cheaper non-water proof pannier to get the same benefit.

Here's something I don't understand about the Ortliebs.  I would like
to get high visibility panniers, like the yellow Ortliebs.  However,
the back of the panniers is black. Why did Ortlieb do that instead of
making the whole thing high vis yellow?  That is one thing I like
about the Arkels: the whole pannier is red and there's lots of
reflective striping.

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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[doug peterson]

Paper is good.  It's wonderful to find BQ drop thru the mail slot, a
bit like Christmas but 4X per year.  An e-mail notice that "your new
BQ is now available in PDF" wouldn't be the same.  Your current mix
and balance of topics suits me.  I've learned a lot of interesting
stuff reading BQ.

dougP

On Apr 5, 7:47 pm, Matt Critchlow  wrote:
> completely agree. the B&W is part of the "charm" to me. Great
> magazine!!
>
> On Apr 5, 7:38 pm, Tim McNamara  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 5, 2010, at 4:54 PM, jan_heine wrote:
>
> > > Color would be nice, but it's terribly expensive. We offer color in
> > > our books, which can be sold over a longer period of time, and thus
> > > amortize the cost.
>
> > IMHO the B&W has a certain niftiness that color just doesn't have.  
> > Don't sweat it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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Re: [RBW] Re: San Diego Custom BIcycle Show Rivendel l Ride! Apr. 11 Mixie •Velo Cult •Beer

[cyclotourist]

Serious promotion!  The pressure's on, Esteban!

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:55 PM, doug peterson  wrote:

> With that listing, the turnout may exceed last years.by a lot!
> Next thing we'll need are route slips.  See you Sunday.
> Hey, this will be 3 Riv rides in 3 weeks - cool!
>
> dougP
>
> On Apr 5, 10:38 am, Esteban  wrote:
> > Our ride is onvthe show website!
> >
> > http://www.sandiegocustombicycleshow.com/
> >
> > Esteban
> > Sam Diego, Calif.
> > On Apr 5, 7:44 am, EricP  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Well, yeah.  That too.  Most of my rides were early in the morning, so
> > > that wasn't as much a distraction.
> >
> > > Also had a fun time watching some dolphins play in the surf.
> > > Something you definitely cannot see around here.  Although on my ride
> > > around Lake Pepin on the Hillborne, saw more bald eagles than I have
> > > in the past few years near Maiden Rock (the feature, not the town).
> >
> > > Eric Platt
> > > St. Paul, MN
> >
> > > On Apr 4, 10:21 pm, Esteban  wrote:
> >
> > > > Still in the Bay Area (down mid-week to teach, then up here later
> this
> > > > week for a conference -- whew!  I guess the 'quake was upgraded to a
> > > > 7.2.  The San Diego/Tijuana megalopolis shrugs it off.  My mother
> > > > reported, like Dustin, that it was quite a shake.  30 seconds.
> >
> > > > So... the SDCBS is STILL ON!!!
> >
> > > > Eric - when I ride along the boardwalk in Mission Beach, I must
> admit,
> > > > its not the houses I'm gawking at. I like the visions your memories
> > > > evoke, though!  Its easy to take one's hometown for granted.  Thanks
> > > > for the wake-up call.
> >
> > > > San Diego, Calif.
> >
> > > > On Apr 4, 6:27 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> >
> > > > > What a coincidence!  Those are all events I would like to have
> repeated as
> > > > > well!
> >
> > > > > On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 6:01 PM, EricP  wrote:
> > > > > > I know.  Just want to ride it again.  (Okay, and ride back up to
> > > > > > Mission Beach and gawk at the houses on the beach.  And ride to
> > > > > > Coronado.  And stop on the southern part of the loop to
> photograph the
> > > > > > old railroad depot.  And have another beer at the restaurant we
> > > > > > stopped at.  And . . . )
> >
> > > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > > St. Paul, MN
> >
> > > > > > On Apr 4, 6:16 pm, Esteban  wrote:
> > > > > > > Eric--some of this is the route we did last year.  Gonna be
> fun.
> >
> > > > > > > On Apr 4, 5:48 am, EricP  wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > Wish I wasn't 3,000 or so miles away.  Would love to get back
> out
> > > > > > > > there and particpate in those rides.
> >
> > > > > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > > > > St. Paul, MN
> >
> > > > > > > > On Apr 4, 12:17 am, Esteban  wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > Forget the fact that I don't know what size bikes I ride.
>  Let's
> > > > > > ride,
> > > > > > > > > drink beer, and see fancy bikes! Highlights - Mixed terrain
> urban
> > > > > > > > > route!  Velo Cult!  Craft Beers! Big Time Bicycle Show!
> >
> > > > > > > > > Last year, the SDCBS was a fantastic event - featuring
> framebuilders
> > > > > > > > > new and old (figuratively and literally), and a nice Riv
> custom in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Joe Bell booth.  A few of us rode a loop around San Diego
> Bay.  This
> > > > > > > > > is going to be a great event, and I hope some list members
> make some
> > > > > > > > > of the show:
> >
> > > > > > > > >http://www.sandiegocustombicycleshow.com/
> >
> > > > > > > > > Of, course, the So Cal Rivendell Bicycle Appreciation
> Society will
> > > > > > > > > hold court on Sunday morning (April 11) for a mid city
> mixie.  For
> > > > > > > > > those who want to see the ocean and enjoy a bit more of a
> ride, we'll
> > > > > > > > > meet at 9am at the Mission Bay Visitors Center and do this
> loop (San
> > > > > > > > > Diego River, Ocean Beach, Sunset Cliffs, Pt. Loma,
> Downtown)... then,
> > > > > > > > > we'll pick people up at the train station.
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Mid-City-Mixie-Extended-Route
> >
> > > > > > > > > And for those who want to sleep in, and/or just want a
> tolken ride to
> > > > > > > > > through two tolken dirt sections in the middle of one of
> the largest
> > > > > > > > > cities in the U.S., meet us at 10ish at the Santa Fe Depot
> downtown,
> > > > > > > > > and we'll cross downtown up to Balboa Park, through the
> Haunted Trail
> > > > > > > > > along the 163, down the dirt section of Florida Canyon ( a
> bit bumpy,
> > > > > > > > > but not bad), up to Velo Cult in South Park, then down 30th
> St. ("The
> > > > > > > > > Brewlevard") to Blind Lady Ale House for a beer and lunch.
>  Then down
> > > > > > > > > to the show:
> >
> > > > > > > > >http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Mid-City-Mixie402176
> >
> > > > > > > > > So, if you want to do 30 miles, meet at 9am at the Mission
> Bay
> > > > > > > > > Visitors Center.  For those who want a shorter 15 mile
> ride, we'll
> > > > > > > > > pick you up at

Re: [RBW] Re: San Diego Custom BIcycle Show Rivendel l Ride! Apr. 11 Mixie •Velo Cult •Beer

[cyclotourist]

Yes, point taken. :-)

Looks like most of the damage in Mexicali (got the blues).  That's just
across the border from Calexico, which could be a pretty cool case study.
TJ seems to have came out ok, and they've got some serious shantitowns on
the hillsides there.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 4:33 AM, Seth Vidal  wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:48 AM, cyclotourist 
> wrote:
> > I'm not hearing about much damage in Tijuana, which is built up with the
> > opposite of strict building codes.  :-)
> >
>
> Read the Nytimes - a number of buildings and a parking deck collapsed.
>
> -sv
>
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-- 
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ventura Ride Report

[cyclotourist]

I know, I know... tough one to miss.  Looked & sounded GREAT from all the
pics and write ups.


On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:10 PM, doug peterson  wrote:

> Rob:
>
> Thanks again for organizing this ride.  After all the rain, those
> hills probably look better than they have in years.  We chatted
> briefly with a rancher on horseback with 2 dogs (1 shepherd & 1 pit
> bull) who was really friendly.  Said the horse was still getting used
> to bikes.  The Atlantis with touring tires worked just fine, given the
> available power input.  Thanks for waiting up on the climbs!
>
> David:
>
> Hey, we were thinking about you.  This was your ride, buddy.  No
> single track but hours of high quality miles & grear photo ops.
>
> dougP
>
> On Apr 4, 4:47 pm, james black  wrote:
> > Thanks for the photos, SoCal Riv Riders - looks like that was a
> > beautiful ride! I feel gratified every time you're showing that
> > Southern California isn't so terrible a place for bike riding after
> > all. I will join you again one of these days.
> >
> > James Black
> > Los Angeles, CA
>
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Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

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Re: [RBW] 52cm Bombadil for sale IS NOW SOLD! Thanks!!

[cyclotourist]

You're awesome!  All bikes deserve a good home!

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Dan Abelson  wrote:

> I am the buyer of the Hilsen.  I can't wait to get it and I owe a big thank
> you to my wife for giving me her blessing.  Now time to get my Gunnar ready
> for sale.
>
> Dan Abelson
> St. Paul, MN
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:18 PM, cyclotourist wrote:
>
>> Er, Hilsen that is.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:18 PM, cyclotourist wrote:
>>
>>> Two nice bikes sold today... Bomba and a Ram.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:25 PM, jinxed  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks (again) Andrew! :)

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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>> David
>>> Redlands, CA
>>>
>>> "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
>>> wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
>>> scientist guy
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> David
>> Redlands, CA
>>
>> "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
>> wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
>> scientist guy
>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>
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-- 
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

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[RBW] 59 Romulus in Portland

[rcnute]

Dang, one size too big for me!  
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/1678190892.html

Ryan

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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[Matt Critchlow]

completely agree. the B&W is part of the "charm" to me. Great
magazine!!

On Apr 5, 7:38 pm, Tim McNamara  wrote:
> On Apr 5, 2010, at 4:54 PM, jan_heine wrote:
>
> > Color would be nice, but it's terribly expensive. We offer color in
> > our books, which can be sold over a longer period of time, and thus
> > amortize the cost.
>
> IMHO the B&W has a certain niftiness that color just doesn't have.  
> Don't sweat it.

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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[Tim McNamara]

On Apr 5, 2010, at 4:54 PM, jan_heine wrote:


Color would be nice, but it's terribly expensive. We offer color in
our books, which can be sold over a longer period of time, and thus
amortize the cost.



IMHO the B&W has a certain niftiness that color just doesn't have.   
Don't sweat it.


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Re: [RBW] 52cm Bombadil for sale IS NOW SOLD! Thanks!!

[Dan Abelson]

I am the buyer of the Hilsen.  I can't wait to get it and I owe a big thank
you to my wife for giving me her blessing.  Now time to get my Gunnar ready
for sale.

Dan Abelson
St. Paul, MN

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:18 PM, cyclotourist  wrote:

> Er, Hilsen that is.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:18 PM, cyclotourist wrote:
>
>> Two nice bikes sold today... Bomba and a Ram.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:25 PM, jinxed  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks (again) Andrew! :)
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .
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>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> David
>> Redlands, CA
>>
>> "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
>> wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
>> scientist guy
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
> Redlands, CA
>
> "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
> wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
> scientist guy
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>

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Re: [RBW] 52cm Bombadil for sale IS NOW SOLD! Thanks!!

[cyclotourist]

Er, Hilsen that is.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:18 PM, cyclotourist  wrote:

> Two nice bikes sold today... Bomba and a Ram.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:25 PM, jinxed  wrote:
>
>> Thanks (again) Andrew! :)
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
> Redlands, CA
>
> "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
> wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
> scientist guy
>



-- 
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

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Re: [RBW] 52cm Bombadil for sale IS NOW SOLD! Thanks!!

[cyclotourist]

Two nice bikes sold today... Bomba and a Ram.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:25 PM, jinxed  wrote:

> Thanks (again) Andrew! :)
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> .
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>
>


-- 
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

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[RBW] Re: Silver Hupe love

[LF]

On Apr 5, 5:21 pm, Eric Norris  wrote:
> I had the same problem with mine.  Definitely suggest wrapping some cloth bar 
> tape around the stays before mounting the Hupe.
>
> --Eric
 cloth,even shellacked, will not offer full protection from a silver
hupe. I know from experience.  Maybe a few layers of inner tube will
do the trick?  That said, I love my silver hupe.  It allows me to use
the same bike for commuting, shopping,and club rides.  easy on/ easy
off. Make a bike more versatile.  I carried such heavy loads on mine
that it bent.  I'm going to do my best  to bend it back.

Silver hupe on back, Wald Quick Release  on front -- for getting the most  out of
one bike.

Best,
Larry

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Re: [RBW] Re: Good stuff for sale, no junk, take a look!

[cyclotourist]

OK, trying to get an updated list together... Conquest is still left; I'm
surprised!  I'll throw in the 22T chainring or the Shimano freewheel in with
the saddle!  I'll be boxing up stuff tonight, and can hopefully get some
more pics of the Trek tomorrow.  It has clearance for 35mm tires for sure on
it.  Cosmetically it could use a repaint, but again, no damage to the
frame.  So Cal and Phoenix bike, so no rust.

$5 shipping any one item.  Saddles are $10 shipping.  Two or more items get
*FREE *shipping thrown in.  Can deliver to San Diego for the show next
weekend.

Mostly Rivendellish/retro-grouchy parts:
Brooks Black Conquest - $75 -  used in box - Pre 2000 badge which is kinda'
cool. 
Tektro interrupter levers - black, logo removed -  $15 No Pic
Shimano Freewheel 6spd MF-HG22 - near new-
$10
58bcd X 22T chainring - steel, new -
$10- $2
shipping

Mordor influenced CF parts:
IRD Pro-Carbon Handlebar - 660 wide, 9^backsweep, 44mm rise, 180 g. - $30
with Titec CF barends
Easton EC70 27.2 seatpost - zigzag from removal on clearcoat
$30

Complete Bike:
Trek 330 (Reynolds 531) 24"/61cm $300
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/3013857978/
Brooks B17, Nitto Noodles/Tech Dlx, Flip/flop single speed hub w/ MA3 rim in
rear.
No rust, some paint wear, no dings/dents.
GREAT single speed or build it back to a traditional tubed road bike!
More pics a'comin' on this.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:30 PM, cyclotourist  wrote:

> spoken for, thanks for the interest!
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Corwin  wrote:
>
>> Hi David -
>>
>> I will take the Jaguar it it's still unclaimed.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Corwin
>>
>> On Apr 4, 10:49 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>> > Updated showing items still available, thanks for the interest!
>> >
>> > $5 shipping any one item.  Saddles are $10 shipping.  Two or more items
>> get
>> > *FREE *shipping thrown in.  Can deliver to San Diego for the show next
>> > weekend.
>> >
>> > Mostly Rivendellish/retro-grouchy parts:
>> > Brooks Green B17 - $65 - used, copper dulled on rails, cosmetic only,
>> > leather is great! <
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/4491207648/>
>> > Brooks Black Conquest - $75 -  used in box - Pre 2000 badge which is
>> kinda'
>> > cool. 
>> > Nitto Jaguar - $90 - ultimate nice post NIB unused, etc.  Masterpiece of
>> > seat posts.  Full price but free
>> > shipping
>> > Tektro interrupter levers - black, logo removed -  $15 No Pic
>> > Nitto Noodle bars - Very LOW miles - 46cm heat treated - $55 No Pic
>> > Shimano Freewheel 6spd MF-HG22 - near new-
>> > $10<
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/4490557039/in/photostream/>
>> > 110bcd X 34T chainring - take off from crankset, new but mounted - $10 -
>> $2
>> > shipping 
>> > 58bcd X 22T chainring - steel, new -
>> > $10- $2
>> > shipping
>> >
>> > Mordor influenced CF parts:
>> > IRD Pro-Carbon Handlebar - 660 wide, 9^backsweep, 44mm rise, 180 g. -
>> $30
>> > with Titec CF barends<
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/4491207230/>
>> > Easton EC70 27.2 seatpost - zigzag from removal on clearcoat
>> > $30
>> >
>> > Complete Bike:
>> > Trek 330 (Reynolds 531) 24"/61cm $300
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/3013857978/
>> > Brooks B17, Nitto Noodles/Tech Dlx, Flip/flop single speed hub w/ MA3
>> rim in
>> > rear.
>> > No rust, some paint wear, no dings/dents.
>> > GREAT single speed or build it back to a traditional tubed road bike!
>> > More pics a'comin' on this.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Cheers,
>> > David
>> > Redlands, CA
>> >
>> > "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
>> > wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
>> > scientist guy
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
> Redlands, CA
>
> "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
> wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
> scientist guy
>



-- 
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that 

Re: [RBW] 52cm Bombadil for sale IS NOW SOLD! Thanks!!

[Jon Grant]

Yes. Well, I suppose it¹s all for the best. Congratulations, Andrew. 

--
Jon ³Papa² Grant
Illustration + Information Graphics
Austin, Texas
jgr...@papagrant.com
512-284-9599



From: jinxed 
Reply-To: 
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 18:25:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: [RBW] 52cm Bombadil for sale IS NOW SOLD! Thanks!!

Thanks (again) Andrew! :)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Good stuff for sale, no junk, take a look!

[cyclotourist]

spoken for, thanks for the interest!

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Corwin  wrote:

> Hi David -
>
> I will take the Jaguar it it's still unclaimed.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Corwin
>
> On Apr 4, 10:49 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> > Updated showing items still available, thanks for the interest!
> >
> > $5 shipping any one item.  Saddles are $10 shipping.  Two or more items
> get
> > *FREE *shipping thrown in.  Can deliver to San Diego for the show next
> > weekend.
> >
> > Mostly Rivendellish/retro-grouchy parts:
> > Brooks Green B17 - $65 - used, copper dulled on rails, cosmetic only,
> > leather is great!  >
> > Brooks Black Conquest - $75 -  used in box - Pre 2000 badge which is
> kinda'
> > cool. 
> > Nitto Jaguar - $90 - ultimate nice post NIB unused, etc.  Masterpiece of
> > seat posts.  Full price but free
> > shipping
> > Tektro interrupter levers - black, logo removed -  $15 No Pic
> > Nitto Noodle bars - Very LOW miles - 46cm heat treated - $55 No Pic
> > Shimano Freewheel 6spd MF-HG22 - near new-
> > $10 >
> > 110bcd X 34T chainring - take off from crankset, new but mounted - $10 -
> $2
> > shipping 
> > 58bcd X 22T chainring - steel, new -
> > $10- $2
> > shipping
> >
> > Mordor influenced CF parts:
> > IRD Pro-Carbon Handlebar - 660 wide, 9^backsweep, 44mm rise, 180 g. - $30
> > with Titec CF barends<
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/4491207230/>
> > Easton EC70 27.2 seatpost - zigzag from removal on clearcoat
> > $30
> >
> > Complete Bike:
> > Trek 330 (Reynolds 531) 24"/61cm $300
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/3013857978/
> > Brooks B17, Nitto Noodles/Tech Dlx, Flip/flop single speed hub w/ MA3 rim
> in
> > rear.
> > No rust, some paint wear, no dings/dents.
> > GREAT single speed or build it back to a traditional tubed road bike!
> > More pics a'comin' on this.
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > David
> > Redlands, CA
> >
> > "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
> > wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
> > scientist guy
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>


-- 
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

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[RBW] Re: Good stuff for sale, no junk, take a look!

[Corwin]

Hi David -

I will take the Jaguar it it's still unclaimed.

Thanks,


Corwin

On Apr 4, 10:49 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> Updated showing items still available, thanks for the interest!
>
> $5 shipping any one item.  Saddles are $10 shipping.  Two or more items get
> *FREE *shipping thrown in.  Can deliver to San Diego for the show next
> weekend.
>
> Mostly Rivendellish/retro-grouchy parts:
> Brooks Green B17 - $65 - used, copper dulled on rails, cosmetic only,
> leather is great! 
> Brooks Black Conquest - $75 -  used in box - Pre 2000 badge which is kinda'
> cool. 
> Nitto Jaguar - $90 - ultimate nice post NIB unused, etc.  Masterpiece of
> seat posts.  Full price but free
> shipping
> Tektro interrupter levers - black, logo removed -  $15 No Pic
> Nitto Noodle bars - Very LOW miles - 46cm heat treated - $55 No Pic
> Shimano Freewheel 6spd MF-HG22 - near new-
> $10
> 110bcd X 34T chainring - take off from crankset, new but mounted - $10 - $2
> shipping 
> 58bcd X 22T chainring - steel, new -
> $10- $2
> shipping
>
> Mordor influenced CF parts:
> IRD Pro-Carbon Handlebar - 660 wide, 9^backsweep, 44mm rise, 180 g. - $30
> with Titec CF barends
> Easton EC70 27.2 seatpost - zigzag from removal on clearcoat
> $30
>
> Complete Bike:
> Trek 330 (Reynolds 531) 24"/61cm 
> $300http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/3013857978/
> Brooks B17, Nitto Noodles/Tech Dlx, Flip/flop single speed hub w/ MA3 rim in
> rear.
> No rust, some paint wear, no dings/dents.
> GREAT single speed or build it back to a traditional tubed road bike!
> More pics a'comin' on this.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
> Redlands, CA
>
> "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
> wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
> scientist guy

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Re: [RBW] Re: Good stuff for sale, no junk, take a look!

[cyclotourist]

spoken for, thanks

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 3:37 AM, hobie  wrote:

> I'll take the noodle bars.James
>
> On Apr 5, 1:49 am, cyclotourist  wrote:
> > Updated showing items still available, thanks for the interest!
> >
> > $5 shipping any one item.  Saddles are $10 shipping.  Two or more items
> get
> > *FREE *shipping thrown in.  Can deliver to San Diego for the show next
> > weekend.
> >
> > Mostly Rivendellish/retro-grouchy parts:
> > Brooks Green B17 - $65 - used, copper dulled on rails, cosmetic only,
> > leather is great!  >
> > Brooks Black Conquest - $75 -  used in box - Pre 2000 badge which is
> kinda'
> > cool. 
> > Nitto Jaguar - $90 - ultimate nice post NIB unused, etc.  Masterpiece of
> > seat posts.  Full price but free
> > shipping
> > Tektro interrupter levers - black, logo removed -  $15 No Pic
> > Nitto Noodle bars - Very LOW miles - 46cm heat treated - $55 No Pic
> > Shimano Freewheel 6spd MF-HG22 - near new-
> > $10 >
> > 110bcd X 34T chainring - take off from crankset, new but mounted - $10 -
> $2
> > shipping 
> > 58bcd X 22T chainring - steel, new -
> > $10- $2
> > shipping
> >
> > Mordor influenced CF parts:
> > IRD Pro-Carbon Handlebar - 660 wide, 9^backsweep, 44mm rise, 180 g. - $30
> > with Titec CF barends<
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/4491207230/>
> > Easton EC70 27.2 seatpost - zigzag from removal on clearcoat
> > $30
> >
> > Complete Bike:
> > Trek 330 (Reynolds 531) 24"/61cm $300
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/3013857978/
> > Brooks B17, Nitto Noodles/Tech Dlx, Flip/flop single speed hub w/ MA3 rim
> in
> > rear.
> > No rust, some paint wear, no dings/dents.
> > GREAT single speed or build it back to a traditional tubed road bike!
> > More pics a'comin' on this.
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > David
> > Redlands, CA
> >
> > "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
> > wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
> > scientist guy
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

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[RBW] 52cm Bombadil for sale IS NOW SOLD! Thanks!!

[jinxed]

Thanks (again) Andrew! :)

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[William]

Eric

I don't think anyone should or would fault you for not wanting to
follow through on buying a bike that changed into something you don't
like.

Personally, the only thing you said that I thought was a bit unfair
was the statement that the bike seemed like a 'half-hearted copy' of
another bike.  I don't know Grant or Keven well enough to really know
how they might feel about reading that, but I can't imagine it being
pleasant.  I don't think Grant or Keven is a copycat, and I don't
think they approach bike design half-heartedly, and I bet you don't
either.  It's fine being honest about subjective things like the
design is 'jarring' or even ugly if that's the way you feel.

On Apr 5, 4:57 pm, EricP  wrote:
> I'm owning up.  It's me that has the refund.  Mainly due to the
> thought that this is not the bike I pre-ordered.  It may be good, but
> not what I was lead to expect from the inital .pdf.  The new bike is
> also too jarring to me visually.
>
> Sorry to the list if I've made too much and lead to discord.  Not my
> wish.  Do not want to alienate others because of my own stupid ideas.
>
> Am not mad at Rivendell at all.  The blame (if there is any) lies
> squarely with me in this case.
>
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>
> On Apr 5, 6:00 pm, Esteban  wrote:
>
> > If I had a deposit, I'd keep it in there until one of these comes off
> > the boat. I'll bet they'll look pretty awesome. Having ridden the
> > prototypes, I'll say that they are SOLID. This diagonal-fest will
> > only make them more solid. And more awesome.
>
> > And these were never svelte bikes. They are intended to be tanks,
> > plowers, mowers...anything that adds strength (and innovation to boot)
> > for this utility machine is welcomed... especially from Keven and
> > Grant who do a lot of tinkering and riding and experimenting.
>
> > Patience is a virtue. I'm liking this bike more and more.
>
> > Esteban
> > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > On Apr 5, 3:48 pm, Beth  wrote:
>
> > > Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices you
> > > 75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and
> > > still not tall.
>
> > > Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't
> > > it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly
> > > resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.)
>
> > > On Apr 5, 9:01 am, William  wrote:
>
> > > > No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy.
>
> > > > On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
>
> > > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:
> > > > > > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. Jars my view
> > > > > > too much. Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike. Fine. I'm
> > > > > > fat. That's been established. Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> > > > > > riding a "special" bike.
>
> > > > > > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> > > > > > original Breezer, that might work. That's a copy of the Schwinn
> > > > > > Excelsior frame.
>
> > > > > > Also, on a slightly different note. With the center tube, would make
> > > > > > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in 
> > > > > > without
> > > > > > interference. At least on a 58. And forget using a pump with a mount
> > > > > > like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> > > > > > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
> > > > > > Without the extra standover.
>
> > > > > > Yes, I'm upset about this. Will probably end up losing a lot of 
> > > > > > money
> > > > > > selling off my frame without building it up. Not something I can 
> > > > > > live
> > > > > > happily with.
>
> > > > > > Sigh.
>
> > > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > > Eric,
>
> > > > > If Riv makes the change, I would just call them. I would not be 
> > > > > suprised if
> > > > > they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy 
> > > > > with the
> > > > > change to the top tube.
>
> > > > > Dan Abelson
> > > > > St. Paul, MN- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[JL]

I don't like it.  I view the functionality of any bike that I can't
throw over my shoulder and run with, or climb up and down stairs
easily, as pretty limited.  This has a direct correlation with the
places I go and where I live though.

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[EricP]

I'm owning up.  It's me that has the refund.  Mainly due to the
thought that this is not the bike I pre-ordered.  It may be good, but
not what I was lead to expect from the inital .pdf.  The new bike is
also too jarring to me visually.

Sorry to the list if I've made too much and lead to discord.  Not my
wish.  Do not want to alienate others because of my own stupid ideas.

Am not mad at Rivendell at all.  The blame (if there is any) lies
squarely with me in this case.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN



On Apr 5, 6:00�pm, Esteban  wrote:
> If I had a deposit, I'd keep it in there until one of these comes off
> the boat. �I'll bet they'll look pretty awesome. �Having ridden the
> prototypes, I'll say that they are SOLID. �This diagonal-fest will
> only make them more solid. �And more awesome.
>
> And these were never svelte bikes. �They are intended to be tanks,
> plowers, mowers...anything that adds strength (and innovation to boot)
> for this utility machine is welcomed... especially from Keven and
> Grant who do a lot of tinkering and riding and experimenting.
>
> Patience is a virtue. �I'm liking this bike more and more.
>
> Esteban
> San Diego, Calif.
>
> On Apr 5, 3:48�pm, Beth  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices you
> > 75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and
> > still not tall.
>
> > Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't
> > it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly
> > resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.)
>
> > On Apr 5, 9:01�am, William  wrote:
>
> > > No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy.
>
> > > On Apr 5, 8:27�am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
>
> > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:
> > > > > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. �Jars my view
> > > > > too much. �Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike. �Fine. �I'm
> > > > > fat. �That's been established. �Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> > > > > riding a "special" bike.
>
> > > > > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> > > > > original Breezer, that might work. �That's a copy of the Schwinn
> > > > > Excelsior frame.
>
> > > > > Also, on a slightly different note. �With the center tube, would make
> > > > > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without
> > > > > interference. �At least on a 58. �And forget using a pump with a mount
> > > > > like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> > > > > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
> > > > > Without the extra standover.
>
> > > > > Yes, I'm upset about this. �Will probably end up losing a lot of money
> > > > > selling off my frame without building it up. �Not something I can live
> > > > > happily with.
>
> > > > > Sigh.
>
> > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > Eric,
>
> > > > If Riv makes the change, I would just call them. �I would not be 
> > > > suprised if
> > > > they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with 
> > > > the
> > > > change to the top tube.
>
> > > > Dan Abelson
> > > > St. Paul, MN- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[rick_sm...@sulfurstar.com]

My copies are in tatters from multiple reads.

On Apr 5, 5:54 pm, jan_heine  wrote:
> Color would be nice, but it's terribly expensive. We offer color in
> our books, which can be sold over a longer period of time, and thus
> amortize the cost. We also have color photos of almost all bikes
> featured in BQ at
>
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/image-archive.html
>
> More ride reports: Every issue has at least one ride report. In the
> current issue, it's a ride from Lyon to Nice in 1908. 500+ km on
> unpaved roads in 24:30 hours, on a two-chain bike... We have an
> article on cycling in India for the Summer issue, and more for the
> following issues. Some rides are recent, others from the past, but all
> are out of the ordinary.
>
> We try to keep a balance of technical articles, inspiring rides and
> fascinating history in every issue, plus a neat classic bike featured
> (a 1954 Alex Singer in the current issue).
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 2116 Western Ave.
> Seattle WA 98121http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com

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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[jan_heine]

Color would be nice, but it's terribly expensive. We offer color in
our books, which can be sold over a longer period of time, and thus
amortize the cost. We also have color photos of almost all bikes
featured in BQ at

http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/image-archive.html

More ride reports: Every issue has at least one ride report. In the
current issue, it's a ride from Lyon to Nice in 1908. 500+ km on
unpaved roads in 24:30 hours, on a two-chain bike... We have an
article on cycling in India for the Summer issue, and more for the
following issues. Some rides are recent, others from the past, but all
are out of the ordinary.

We try to keep a balance of technical articles, inspiring rides and
fascinating history in every issue, plus a neat classic bike featured
(a 1954 Alex Singer in the current issue).

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
2116 Western Ave.
Seattle WA 98121
http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Esteban]

If I had a deposit, I'd keep it in there until one of these comes off
the boat.  I'll bet they'll look pretty awesome.  Having ridden the
prototypes, I'll say that they are SOLID.  This diagonal-fest will
only make them more solid.  And more awesome.

And these were never svelte bikes.  They are intended to be tanks,
plowers, mowers...anything that adds strength (and innovation to boot)
for this utility machine is welcomed... especially from Keven and
Grant who do a lot of tinkering and riding and experimenting.

Patience is a virtue.  I'm liking this bike more and more.

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

On Apr 5, 3:48 pm, Beth  wrote:
> Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices you
> 75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and
> still not tall.
>
> Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't
> it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly
> resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.)
>
> On Apr 5, 9:01 am, William  wrote:
>
>
>
> > No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy.
>
> > On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
>
> > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:
> > > > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced.  Jars my view
> > > > too much.  Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike.  Fine.  I'm
> > > > fat.  That's been established.  Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> > > > riding a "special" bike.
>
> > > > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> > > > original Breezer, that might work.  That's a copy of the Schwinn
> > > > Excelsior frame.
>
> > > > Also, on a slightly different note.  With the center tube, would make
> > > > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without
> > > > interference.  At least on a 58.  And forget using a pump with a mount
> > > > like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> > > > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
> > > > Without the extra standover.
>
> > > > Yes, I'm upset about this.  Will probably end up losing a lot of money
> > > > selling off my frame without building it up.  Not something I can live
> > > > happily with.
>
> > > > Sigh.
>
> > > > Eric Platt
> > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > Eric,
>
> > > If Riv makes the change, I would just call them.  I would not be suprised 
> > > if
> > > they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the
> > > change to the top tube.
>
> > > Dan Abelson
> > > St. Paul, MN- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Beth]

Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices you
75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and
still not tall.

Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't
it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly
resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.)

On Apr 5, 9:01 am, William  wrote:
> No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy.
>
> On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:
> > > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced.  Jars my view
> > > too much.  Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike.  Fine.  I'm
> > > fat.  That's been established.  Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> > > riding a "special" bike.
>
> > > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> > > original Breezer, that might work.  That's a copy of the Schwinn
> > > Excelsior frame.
>
> > > Also, on a slightly different note.  With the center tube, would make
> > > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without
> > > interference.  At least on a 58.  And forget using a pump with a mount
> > > like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> > > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
> > > Without the extra standover.
>
> > > Yes, I'm upset about this.  Will probably end up losing a lot of money
> > > selling off my frame without building it up.  Not something I can live
> > > happily with.
>
> > > Sigh.
>
> > > Eric Platt
> > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > Eric,
>
> > If Riv makes the change, I would just call them.  I would not be suprised if
> > they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the
> > change to the top tube.
>
> > Dan Abelson
> > St. Paul, MN- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Ian Dickson]

I think it's a waste of energy to get upset about something like
this.  First, it's a bicycle.  Bicycles are fun.  Second, if you're
upset about it, give it a few days and see if you still feel the same
way.  It's going to be a nice bike.

On Apr 5, 1:50 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> Just read that myself.   It seems like some hard feelings are being
> formed.
>
> On Apr 5, 3:28 pm, William  wrote:
>
> > .and Grant posted about the various opinions, and indicated that
> > one refund was given already.  I think that's too bad, but nobody
> > should buy a bike that they cannot like.
>
> > On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
>
> > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:
> > > > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced.  Jars my view
> > > > too much.  Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike.  Fine.  I'm
> > > > fat.  That's been established.  Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> > > > riding a "special" bike.
>
> > > > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> > > > original Breezer, that might work.  That's a copy of the Schwinn
> > > > Excelsior frame.
>
> > > > Also, on a slightly different note.  With the center tube, would make
> > > > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without
> > > > interference.  At least on a 58.  And forget using a pump with a mount
> > > > like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> > > > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
> > > > Without the extra standover.
>
> > > > Yes, I'm upset about this.  Will probably end up losing a lot of money
> > > > selling off my frame without building it up.  Not something I can live
> > > > happily with.
>
> > > > Sigh.
>
> > > > Eric Platt
> > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > Eric,
>
> > > If Riv makes the change, I would just call them.  I would not be suprised 
> > > if
> > > they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the
> > > change to the top tube.
>
> > > Dan Abelson
> > > St. Paul, MN

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Matt Critchlow]

i hope there's no serious hard feeligns..

the new design is just that, a new design. it's different than what
was initially shown during the presale and all the here's da hunka
stuff. If someone doesn't like the changes ( i haven't made up my mind
yet ), I don't see anything wrong with them asking for a refund as it
is a different bike.

Losing a customer with a change like this is a possibility sure, but I
hope they're not losing "friends or fans" over this!

Matt

On Apr 5, 2:50 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> Just read that myself.   It seems like some hard feelings are being
> formed.
>
> On Apr 5, 3:28 pm, William  wrote:
>
>
>
> > .and Grant posted about the various opinions, and indicated that
> > one refund was given already.  I think that's too bad, but nobody
> > should buy a bike that they cannot like.
>
> > On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
>
> > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:
> > > > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced.  Jars my view
> > > > too much.  Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike.  Fine.  I'm
> > > > fat.  That's been established.  Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> > > > riding a "special" bike.
>
> > > > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> > > > original Breezer, that might work.  That's a copy of the Schwinn
> > > > Excelsior frame.
>
> > > > Also, on a slightly different note.  With the center tube, would make
> > > > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without
> > > > interference.  At least on a 58.  And forget using a pump with a mount
> > > > like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> > > > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
> > > > Without the extra standover.
>
> > > > Yes, I'm upset about this.  Will probably end up losing a lot of money
> > > > selling off my frame without building it up.  Not something I can live
> > > > happily with.
>
> > > > Sigh.
>
> > > > Eric Platt
> > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > Eric,
>
> > > If Riv makes the change, I would just call them.  I would not be suprised 
> > > if
> > > they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the
> > > change to the top tube.
>
> > > Dan Abelson
> > > St. Paul, MN

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[happyriding]

Just read that myself.   It seems like some hard feelings are being
formed.


On Apr 5, 3:28 pm, William  wrote:
> .and Grant posted about the various opinions, and indicated that
> one refund was given already.  I think that's too bad, but nobody
> should buy a bike that they cannot like.
>
> On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:
> > > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced.  Jars my view
> > > too much.  Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike.  Fine.  I'm
> > > fat.  That's been established.  Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> > > riding a "special" bike.
>
> > > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> > > original Breezer, that might work.  That's a copy of the Schwinn
> > > Excelsior frame.
>
> > > Also, on a slightly different note.  With the center tube, would make
> > > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without
> > > interference.  At least on a 58.  And forget using a pump with a mount
> > > like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> > > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
> > > Without the extra standover.
>
> > > Yes, I'm upset about this.  Will probably end up losing a lot of money
> > > selling off my frame without building it up.  Not something I can live
> > > happily with.
>
> > > Sigh.
>
> > > Eric Platt
> > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > Eric,
>
> > If Riv makes the change, I would just call them.  I would not be suprised if
> > they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the
> > change to the top tube.
>
> > Dan Abelson
> > St. Paul, MN

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[RBW] Rough Riding on the Adventure Cycling Blog

[XO-1.org Rough Riders]

Hi gang:

Check out "Fat Terrain on Skinny Tires" on the Adventure Cycling Blog:

http://blog.adventurecycling.org/2010/04/fat-terrain-on-skinny-tires.html

I'm so excited about the momentum we're building!

- Chris Kostman
La Jolla, CA
http://www.XO-1.org

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[RBW] Re: Silver Hupe of Death

[Me]

True, dat...

On Apr 5, 1:56 pm, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 13:45 -0700, Me wrote:
> > This thing is like inviting heartbreak purposely into one's life.
>
> At least it's cheaper than buying a French car.

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[RBW] Re: Silver Hupe of Death

[Me]

It's the rubber coated metal ends, that poke through the rubber, that
take the fun out of installation [and the paint/primer/and steel too].

On Apr 5, 2:15 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> On Apr 5, 2:45 pm, Me  wrote:
>
> > This thing is like inviting heartbreak purposely into one's life.
>
> > Bought one 3 years ago, never used/never had a use for it... until
> > late.
>
> > And after three tries, and the resulting 6 [3 per seatstay] deep -
> > through paint/primer & into the actual steel deep- hanks into my Bob
> > Brown custom, I can officially say, "This thing is not working for
>
> How does it gouge the paint?  In the photos below, it looks like the
> metal parts that go around the seat stays are coated with rubber:
>
> http://epicureancyclist.blogspot.com/2008/11/review-rivendell-silver-...

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[William]

.and Grant posted about the various opinions, and indicated that
one refund was given already.  I think that's too bad, but nobody
should buy a bike that they cannot like.

On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:
> > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced.  Jars my view
> > too much.  Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike.  Fine.  I'm
> > fat.  That's been established.  Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> > riding a "special" bike.
>
> > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> > original Breezer, that might work.  That's a copy of the Schwinn
> > Excelsior frame.
>
> > Also, on a slightly different note.  With the center tube, would make
> > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without
> > interference.  At least on a 58.  And forget using a pump with a mount
> > like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
> > Without the extra standover.
>
> > Yes, I'm upset about this.  Will probably end up losing a lot of money
> > selling off my frame without building it up.  Not something I can live
> > happily with.
>
> > Sigh.
>
> > Eric Platt
> > St. Paul, MN
>
> Eric,
>
> If Riv makes the change, I would just call them.  I would not be suprised if
> they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the
> change to the top tube.
>
> Dan Abelson
> St. Paul, MN

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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver Hupe of Death

[Eric Norris]

I had the same problem with mine.  Definitely suggest wrapping some cloth bar 
tape around the stays before mounting the Hupe.

--Eric
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 5, 2010, at 2:15 PM, happyriding  wrote:

> On Apr 5, 2:45 pm, Me  wrote:
>> This thing is like inviting heartbreak purposely into one's life.
>> 
>> Bought one 3 years ago, never used/never had a use for it... until
>> late.
>> 
>> And after three tries, and the resulting 6 [3 per seatstay] deep -
>> through paint/primer & into the actual steel deep- hanks into my Bob
>> Brown custom, I can officially say, "This thing is not working for
> 
> How does it gouge the paint?  In the photos below, it looks like the
> metal parts that go around the seat stays are coated with rubber:
> 
> http://epicureancyclist.blogspot.com/2008/11/review-rivendell-silver-hupe.html
> 
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[RBW] Re: Silver Hupe of Death

[happyriding]

On Apr 5, 2:45 pm, Me  wrote:
> This thing is like inviting heartbreak purposely into one's life.
>
> Bought one 3 years ago, never used/never had a use for it... until
> late.
>
> And after three tries, and the resulting 6 [3 per seatstay] deep -
> through paint/primer & into the actual steel deep- hanks into my Bob
> Brown custom, I can officially say, "This thing is not working for

How does it gouge the paint?  In the photos below, it looks like the
metal parts that go around the seat stays are coated with rubber:

http://epicureancyclist.blogspot.com/2008/11/review-rivendell-silver-hupe.html

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RE: [RBW] Silver Hupe of Death

[Joe Bartoe]

Yes, Riv likes beausage, but it's possible that it may have something to do 
with selling items that do this to your bike.


Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:09:49 -0700
From: fullylug...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Silver Hupe of Death
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com



They do suck royally. (Hupes and old French cars)  I took a metal file to the 
ends of mine and it has been serviceable.

Remember Riv LIKES "beausage" your gouges are proof of the authenticity of your 
zeitgeist.. 

From: Steve Palincsar 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 3:56:51 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Silver Hupe of Death

On Mon, 2010-04-05
 at 13:45 -0700, Me wrote:
> This thing is like inviting heartbreak purposely into one's life.

At least it's cheaper than buying a French car.







  




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Re: [RBW] Silver Hupe of Death

[Bruce]

They do suck royally. (Hupes and old French cars)  I took a metal file to the 
ends of mine and it has been serviceable.

Remember Riv LIKES "beausage" your gouges are proof of the authenticity of your 
zeitgeist..





From: Steve Palincsar 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 3:56:51 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Silver Hupe of Death

On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 13:45 -0700, Me wrote:
> This thing is like inviting heartbreak purposely into one's life.

At least it's cheaper than buying a French car.


  

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Re: [RBW] Silver Hupe of Death

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 13:45 -0700, Me wrote:
> This thing is like inviting heartbreak purposely into one's life.

At least it's cheaper than buying a French car.



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[RBW] Silver Hupe of Death

[Me]

This thing is like inviting heartbreak purposely into one's life.

Bought one 3 years ago, never used/never had a use for it... until
late.

And after three tries, and the resulting 6 [3 per seatstay] deep -
through paint/primer & into the actual steel deep- hanks into my Bob
Brown custom, I can officially say, "This thing is not working for
me".

Seriously bothered about the carnage this lil' contraption inflicted
on my whip.

I'd sell it to someone but that would be like selling someone a dog
you know bites strangers, has bladder control issues and eats small
children.

~I wish I hadn't tried past that first try when installing this
thing... I would have a little more Imron left on my bike than I
currently do~

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[RBW] Re: Ventura Ride Report

[doug peterson]

Rob:

Thanks again for organizing this ride.  After all the rain, those
hills probably look better than they have in years.  We chatted
briefly with a rancher on horseback with 2 dogs (1 shepherd & 1 pit
bull) who was really friendly.  Said the horse was still getting used
to bikes.  The Atlantis with touring tires worked just fine, given the
available power input.  Thanks for waiting up on the climbs!

David:

Hey, we were thinking about you.  This was your ride, buddy.  No
single track but hours of high quality miles & grear photo ops.

dougP

On Apr 4, 4:47 pm, james black  wrote:
> Thanks for the photos, SoCal Riv Riders - looks like that was a
> beautiful ride! I feel gratified every time you're showing that
> Southern California isn't so terrible a place for bike riding after
> all. I will join you again one of these days.
>
> James Black
> Los Angeles, CA

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[RBW] Re: No damned bag matching for me! Pannier shopping spree

[doug peterson]

Patrick, when you decide to "pull the trigger", you're on full auto!

dougP

On Apr 4, 5:50 pm, Justin August  wrote:
> I love those Linus bags. I might buy some for commuting. Fits the
> aesthetic of a teacher pretty well...
>
> On Apr 3, 10:00 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I finally decided that I have enough money to stop using makeshift panniers,
> > and over the last two day's have purchased three pairs, to wit: (1) Avenir
> > shopping basket panniers, $40 each from Fat Tire Cycles, nice, heavy nylon
> > canvas and mesh with foldable metal frame and shoulder straps; I'll keep
> > these at home for shopping use on different bikes. (2) Axiom Dutch panniers,
> > half price sale at $44 the pair form AEB, that will go permanently on the
> > Motobecane. (3) the Linus Shopper pair, a flap-over-the-rack, mid-sized pair
> > of 22 oz cotton canvas from Calhoun for $110 the pair; just the right size
> > for the Riv commuter at 32X29X12 cm. I'm sorry now that I hesitated on the
> > Minehahas from that hardware store, but when I checked yesterday they were
> > out of stock. And I think that the Linus's are made from heavier fabric.
> > (One nice feature: they can be rolled and snapped "up" when empty).
>
> > Will post photos when they all arrive. (Hope to use the Avenirs tomorrow for
> > trip to Costco on the Motobecane.)
>
> > Patrick Moore, who also will never use shellac'd cotton tape on his bars.
>
> > --
> > Patrick Moore
> > Albuquerque, NM
> > For professional resumes, contact
> > Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
> > (505) 227-0523
>
> > --
> > Patrick Moore
> > Albuquerque, NM
> > For professional resumes, contact
> > Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
> > (505) 227-0523- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Egglantis

[doug peterson]

Nice color match.

On Apr 5, 8:18 am, "Frederick, Steve" 
wrote:
> Very nice but I find those thin-wall models very prone to cracking...
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>
> [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of James Warren
> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 9:57 PM
> To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [RBW] Egglantis
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/46035...@n07/4491924612/
>
> --
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> For more options, visit this group 
> athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: San Diego Custom BIcycle Show Rivendell Ri de! Apr. 11 Mixie •Velo Cult •Beer

[doug peterson]

With that listing, the turnout may exceed last years.by a lot!
Next thing we'll need are route slips.  See you Sunday.
Hey, this will be 3 Riv rides in 3 weeks - cool!

dougP

On Apr 5, 10:38 am, Esteban  wrote:
> Our ride is onvthe show website!
>
> http://www.sandiegocustombicycleshow.com/
>
> Esteban
> Sam Diego, Calif.
> On Apr 5, 7:44 am, EricP  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Well, yeah.  That too.  Most of my rides were early in the morning, so
> > that wasn't as much a distraction.
>
> > Also had a fun time watching some dolphins play in the surf.
> > Something you definitely cannot see around here.  Although on my ride
> > around Lake Pepin on the Hillborne, saw more bald eagles than I have
> > in the past few years near Maiden Rock (the feature, not the town).
>
> > Eric Platt
> > St. Paul, MN
>
> > On Apr 4, 10:21 pm, Esteban  wrote:
>
> > > Still in the Bay Area (down mid-week to teach, then up here later this
> > > week for a conference -- whew!  I guess the 'quake was upgraded to a
> > > 7.2.  The San Diego/Tijuana megalopolis shrugs it off.  My mother
> > > reported, like Dustin, that it was quite a shake.  30 seconds.
>
> > > So... the SDCBS is STILL ON!!!
>
> > > Eric - when I ride along the boardwalk in Mission Beach, I must admit,
> > > its not the houses I'm gawking at. I like the visions your memories
> > > evoke, though!  Its easy to take one's hometown for granted.  Thanks
> > > for the wake-up call.
>
> > > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > > On Apr 4, 6:27 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> > > > What a coincidence!  Those are all events I would like to have repeated 
> > > > as
> > > > well!
>
> > > > On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 6:01 PM, EricP  wrote:
> > > > > I know.  Just want to ride it again.  (Okay, and ride back up to
> > > > > Mission Beach and gawk at the houses on the beach.  And ride to
> > > > > Coronado.  And stop on the southern part of the loop to photograph the
> > > > > old railroad depot.  And have another beer at the restaurant we
> > > > > stopped at.  And . . . )
>
> > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > > On Apr 4, 6:16 pm, Esteban  wrote:
> > > > > > Eric--some of this is the route we did last year.  Gonna be fun.
>
> > > > > > On Apr 4, 5:48 am, EricP  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Wish I wasn't 3,000 or so miles away.  Would love to get back out
> > > > > > > there and particpate in those rides.
>
> > > > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > > > > On Apr 4, 12:17 am, Esteban  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Forget the fact that I don't know what size bikes I ride.  Let's
> > > > > ride,
> > > > > > > > drink beer, and see fancy bikes! Highlights - Mixed terrain 
> > > > > > > > urban
> > > > > > > > route!  Velo Cult!  Craft Beers! Big Time Bicycle Show!
>
> > > > > > > > Last year, the SDCBS was a fantastic event - featuring 
> > > > > > > > framebuilders
> > > > > > > > new and old (figuratively and literally), and a nice Riv custom 
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > Joe Bell booth.  A few of us rode a loop around San Diego Bay.  
> > > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > is going to be a great event, and I hope some list members make 
> > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > of the show:
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.sandiegocustombicycleshow.com/
>
> > > > > > > > Of, course, the So Cal Rivendell Bicycle Appreciation Society 
> > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > hold court on Sunday morning (April 11) for a mid city mixie.  
> > > > > > > > For
> > > > > > > > those who want to see the ocean and enjoy a bit more of a ride, 
> > > > > > > > we'll
> > > > > > > > meet at 9am at the Mission Bay Visitors Center and do this loop 
> > > > > > > > (San
> > > > > > > > Diego River, Ocean Beach, Sunset Cliffs, Pt. Loma, Downtown)... 
> > > > > > > > then,
> > > > > > > > we'll pick people up at the train station.
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Mid-City-Mixie-Extended-Route
>
> > > > > > > > And for those who want to sleep in, and/or just want a tolken 
> > > > > > > > ride to
> > > > > > > > through two tolken dirt sections in the middle of one of the 
> > > > > > > > largest
> > > > > > > > cities in the U.S., meet us at 10ish at the Santa Fe Depot 
> > > > > > > > downtown,
> > > > > > > > and we'll cross downtown up to Balboa Park, through the Haunted 
> > > > > > > > Trail
> > > > > > > > along the 163, down the dirt section of Florida Canyon ( a bit 
> > > > > > > > bumpy,
> > > > > > > > but not bad), up to Velo Cult in South Park, then down 30th St. 
> > > > > > > > ("The
> > > > > > > > Brewlevard") to Blind Lady Ale House for a beer and lunch.  
> > > > > > > > Then down
> > > > > > > > to the show:
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Mid-City-Mixie402176
>
> > > > > > > > So, if you want to do 30 miles, meet at 9am at the Mission Bay
> > > > > > > > Visitors Center.  For those who want a shorter 15 mile ride, 
> > > > > > > > we'll
> > > > > > > > pick you up at Santa Fe Depot at 10ish.
>
> > > > > > > > The ride will be 

[RBW] Re: Riddle me this.

[doug peterson]

All major purchase decisions we make involve some form of value
analysis.  Since everyone's values differ, there's more to life than
unit prices.  I have a couple of friends who won't own anything but a
over-priced (to me) German sports sedan, yet gasp at the notion of a
bicycle costing $2,000.  Before buying my Atlantis, I'd decided on a
bike capable of loaded touring and researched that particular corner
of the bike world.  There were bikes costing less and bikes costing
more, so in that world the Atlantis, in my evaluation, was a fair
value for the money.  OTH, if a bike was purchased for occasional,
casual recreational rides, the cost of any Rivendell would be tough to
justify on purely economic grounds.  Aesthetics are another topic
altogether.  At some point we all vote with our wallets, and if good
looks & fine craftsmanship is important, we're willing to pay for it.

dougP

On Apr 4, 7:36 am, Buck  wrote:
> I go visit my friend, RIck, on Cape Cod. He never rides, but we're
> gonna ride the Cape Cod bike trail just for fun. He drags an old
> Specialized Crossroads out of the garage. It's maybe early/mid 90's
> and a hybrid-y kind of thing. I have my Atlantis. Rick is very
> mechanical (think cars, boats, motorcycles) and very handy (rebuilt
> much of his house). He's oohing and ahhing over the Atlantis. Asks me
> what I like about it. I tell him how comfy it is. Bars a little higher
> than the seat, long wheelbase, large triangle, etc. With his bike next
> to mine, the frame triangles are noticeably different. So I'm barking
> about his small tubes and all that stuff. While we're talking, he
> takes a tape measure off his belt...
>
> Despite the obvious difference in tube lengths, our wheelbases are
> almost identical (we're both the same height). His seat is the same
> height as mine (though his top tube is much lower). His bars are
> actually about the same height. The seat to pedal distance is about
> the same. In other words, the frame sizes are radically different...
> his seat tube extends way more than mine and his stem is taller, but
> hey, sitting on our bikes is pretty much identical.
>
> I can recite all the coefficient of linear plentitudes and cosines of
> the primary hypotenuse stuff, but beyond the theory, he was looking at
> me like hey, I l-o-v-e your Atlantis, but tell me again why... if I'm
> not riding across Nepal... your Atlantis is better than my $75
> craigslist special if we're just going for a ride??
>
> I had a great $1000 answer. Because the Atlantis is so cool. But I
> didn't have a good $2500-3000 answer.

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[happyriding]

On Apr 5, 1:06 pm, William  wrote:
> And here's the fantasy decal for the Diagonpillar:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/45758...@n04/4494550338/
>

Ha ha ha!

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[William]

And here's the fantasy decal for the Diagonpillar:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45758...@n04/4494550338/



On Apr 5, 11:52 am, Esteban  wrote:
> I like all of the tt configurations imagined here, far better than the
> parallel...  This bike is meant to be a beast!  The extra structure is
> interesting and functional.  Cool like interesting duthh bikes.
> Unique l!  Diagonal-ize!
>
> On Apr 5, 11:08 am, james black  wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:48, happyriding  wrote:
> > > Oh, yeah.  Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two
> > > triangles are better than one geometry:
> > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/
>
> > Thanks for mocking that up! It doesn't look as good as I had imagined
> > when I described it - with a longer headtube, it would only improve.
> > But I still think it looks better, more sensible and organic in a way,
> > than any of the other schemes  - except for the the campeur-style with
> > the added stays, which I think would be a brilliant choice!
>
> > James Black
> > Los Angeles, CA

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[happyriding]

On Apr 5, 12:08 pm, james black  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:48, happyriding  wrote:
> > Oh, yeah.  Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two
> > triangles are better than one geometry:
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/
>
> Thanks for mocking that up! It doesn't look as good as I had imagined
> when I described it - with a longer headtube, it would only improve.
> But I still think it looks better, more sensible and organic in a way,
> than any of the other schemes  - except for the the campeur-style with
> the added stays, which I think would be a brilliant choice!
>

Personally, I think I like the double down tube the best.  It would
also lower the center of gravity of the bike.  I don't know how it
would affect the twisting forces at the BB, though.

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[RBW] Re: Riddle me this.

[newenglandbike]

My SO has three fat-chances, all of them well-ridden too.   They are
cool bikes.


On Apr 5, 1:43 pm, Buck  wrote:
> Exactly. It's them nuances and the effect they have on our lives. And
> actually the same friend who has the boat (which I don't understand
> either) says it best... "there's an ass for every seat".
>
> I was thinking just the other day how when I was growing up I had an
> old Raleigh 3-speed with a Brooks seat. When I graduated to a "real"
> road bike with a grooved and padded techno-seat I marveled at how I
> ever rode on a ridiculous slab of leather stretched across a metal
> frame. Over the years I must have gone through a half a dozen techno-
> seats (and they weren't bad). And then when I bought my Atlantis I
> spent $100 on a Brooks. And I l-o-v-e it. Most comfortable seat ever.
> Weird.
>
> I only ever had one other bike that did the same thing for me. Back in
> the 1980's I did some consulting for Fat City Cycles. They made Fat
> Chance Mountain bikes. I worked for free with the understanding that
> at some point, whenever he felt that I'd finally earned it (or never
> if I didn't), the owner would give me a bike. I worked for him for
> several years and then one day I went to the shop and he looked at me
> and said, "today's the day". It was cool. And I loved and cherished
> that bike for almost 20 years. Just like my Atlantis.
>
> On Apr 5, 11:24 am, Jon Grant  wrote:
>
> > The money we spend and how we choose to spend it. Sheesh.
>
> > I have a Joe S./Curt/Joe B. Rivendell custom that was damaged in a
> > collision. While it was away for repair, I put almost all the parts on a
> > (Panasonic-built?) Schwinn World Voyageur frame so I could continue riding
> > to work. It was pretty enough, and rode just fine. One day, without thinking
> > of all the possible ramifications of my words, I remarked to my wife, ³You
> > know, that old Schwinn is about 70% as good a ride as the Rivendell.² Oops.
> > She pulled up short and said, ³Wait. The bike you paid fifty bucks for is
> > two thirds as good as the bike that cost us more than three grand?² After
> > she started talking to me again, we had some long and interesting
> > discussions about nuances of design and craftsmanship and their effect on
> > function and quality of our lives, both individually and as a society. I
> > still have the Riv and still catch myself staring at it, marveling at the
> > details of joinery and paint, and marveling at the ride when astride it. The
> > Schwinn has gone to a deserving home, with no regrets.
>
> > I will say this: I CANNOT understand how some folks spend so much money on
> > boats and fishing gear. Now that¹s just ridiculous.
>
> > --
> > Jon ³Kidding! I kid!² Grant, house-bound in
> > Austin, Texas

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Esteban]

I like all of the tt configurations imagined here, far better than the
parallel...  This bike is meant to be a beast!  The extra structure is
interesting and functional.  Cool like interesting duthh bikes.
Unique l!  Diagonal-ize!

On Apr 5, 11:08 am, james black  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:48, happyriding  wrote:
> > Oh, yeah.  Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two
> > triangles are better than one geometry:
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/
>
> Thanks for mocking that up! It doesn't look as good as I had imagined
> when I described it - with a longer headtube, it would only improve.
> But I still think it looks better, more sensible and organic in a way,
> than any of the other schemes  - except for the the campeur-style with
> the added stays, which I think would be a brilliant choice!
>
> James Black
> Los Angeles, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Joe Bunik]

Danged! If that diagonal tube had been on the docket last week during
the pre-deal, it might well have pushed me over the edge!

FWIW, I saw a campeur in a (cool) shop in Paris last year - Rando Cycles
http://www.flickr.com/photos/66275...@n00/4494454218/
... I think it was the owner's bike. Big/tall dude... big/tall bike
(and, all Campy Euclid iirc)!

James: your triangulation suggestion reminded me of old
Koski/Trailmaster stuff... (Kinda hard to) see:
http://mombat.org/80Koski5.jpg
http://mombat.org/80Koski8.jpg
http://mombat.org/Koski.htm

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA



On 4/5/10, james black  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:48, happyriding  wrote:
>> Oh, yeah.  Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two
>> triangles are better than one geometry:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/
>
> Thanks for mocking that up! It doesn't look as good as I had imagined
> when I described it - with a longer headtube, it would only improve.
> But I still think it looks better, more sensible and organic in a way,
> than any of the other schemes  - except for the the campeur-style with
> the added stays, which I think would be a brilliant choice!
>
> James Black
> Los Angeles, CA
>
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>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[PATRICK MOORE]

Amen to that. And when will we get some more ride reports as in the earlier
issues, as the PBP tandem story?

It has too much technical esoterica for my taste.

FWIW.

Not much, no doubt.

PAM

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:33 AM,  wrote:

> When will we get an electronic version?
> Paper is SO 2nd century!
>
>
>
> On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:00 AM, jan_heine  wrote:
>
> >> I know a lot of folks here read Vintage Bicycle Quarterly. A friend
> >> received the latest issue on 04/03. I imagine mine should arrive
> >> today. Beth H's Rivendell is featured in this issues "My Favorite
> >> Bike" article.
> >
> > Just a quick note: The magazine has been "Bicycle Quarterly" for quite
> > a few years now. We dropped the "Vintage" from the name to highlight
> > that it's not about old bikes, but about quality bikes of all ages.
> > Check out the contents of the Spring 2010 issue, and you'll see that
> > while there is plenty of fascinating history, our view is forward-
> > looking, with tests of modern bikes (including one with Campagnolo
> > Super Record 11-speed _and_ 650B wheels) and components (Electra's new
> > Ticino cranks, hubs, etc.). We examine technical issues that matter to
> > real-world riders, like the effect of wheel size on handling. See a
> > preview of the Spring issue at
> >
> > http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/currentissue.html
> >
> > and the full table of contents at
> >
> > http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/contents.html
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jan Heine
> > Editor
> > Bicycle Quarterly
> > 2116 Western Ave.
> > Seattle WA 98121
> > http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com
> >
> > --
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> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
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> >
>
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-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
(505) 227-0523

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Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[james black]

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:48, happyriding  wrote:
> Oh, yeah.  Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two
> triangles are better than one geometry:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/

Thanks for mocking that up! It doesn't look as good as I had imagined
when I described it - with a longer headtube, it would only improve.
But I still think it looks better, more sensible and organic in a way,
than any of the other schemes  - except for the the campeur-style with
the added stays, which I think would be a brilliant choice!

James Black
Los Angeles, CA

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Fwd: [RBW] Re: Riddle me this.

[PATRICK MOORE]

So... that's all I was noodling on. I couldn't rationally explain the
extra $2500 I spent, but I just knew that I couldn't be happier having
done it. OK, time to stop typing and go out riding.


Hell, you got off lightly. I've had 3 customs and I ride 4K miles in a good
year (usually closer to 3K). But, as I was telling my brother just this
morning, I drive a 20 year old van (2K miles since the beginning of
November) and dammit, if i want to spend $$ on ego-bolstering bike stuff, I
will! Dammit!

Patrick Moore, in ABQ, NM, where the winds are forecast to gust to 50 over
the next few days, and who loves grunting fixed gears against winds in the
hooks and up hills with loads. Amen.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstands

[PATRICK MOORE]

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Dave Craig  wrote:

>
>
> In my experience with my 60 cm Bombadil, I found the center Esge 2 leg
> stand to be unstable on anything but dead flat, hard ground. I mention
> the size of the bike because I wondered whether the height provided a
> greater lever for destabilizing it.
>
> I agree that the Esge is not all that stable even on flat concrete and, on
soft surfaces, it's no better than your $12.95 bb Greenfield. BUT *I*
use the VO stand which (1) is wider and (2) has these cute little plastic
feet that give more support. Considerably better.

But I agree that a rear-triangle-mount stand seems to be best unless you
really want to keep your bike upright when you remove a wheel (which I do).

Patrick Moore, grimly bottom-trimming.

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RE: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Frederick, Steve]

Personally I like all the options shown better than two parallel toptubes.  
They all look like reinforcing structures to me whereas the paralle TT's just 
look redundant...what's that thing that's in the eye of the be-whatsits?

Steve

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of happyriding
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:49 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar


On Apr 5, 9:51 am, Garth  wrote:
> Eric,
>
> Riv isn't going to make any drastic changes to the Hunq, or else
> they'd have to call it something else.
>
> What you see here is pure fantasy. One thought about TT's not being
> parallel and all of the sudden we have a whole new frame?
> Nah.

Did you see the name of the op?  It's not April 1 anymore, either.

Oh, yeah.  Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two
triangles are better than one geometry:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/

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[RBW] Re: FS: 55cm A Homer Hilsen and miscellaneous parts

[stevep33]

UPDATE:

SOLD
- 55cm A Homer Hilsen
- track cogs
- front brake

STILL AVAILABLE:
- Ritchey Speedmax Cross Comp 700x40 tires - maybe 50 miles on these
$35/pair
- PrincetonTec Switchback 3 light with all accessories in box $95
- cork Grips, new $6
- clothe tape, new: 2 rolls dark blue $5, 2 rolls aqua $5
- generic threadless stem.  120mm 40 degree. black. 1 1/8, includes
shim for 1inch tube $12
- fix/free wheelset.  Mavic CXP22 rims on Formula hubs (120mm, re-
spaced to 130mm) - well-used.  rear track nuts work but are beat up.
$50/set

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[happyriding]

On Apr 5, 9:51 am, Garth  wrote:
> Eric,
>
> Riv isn't going to make any drastic changes to the Hunq, or else
> they'd have to call it something else.
>
> What you see here is pure fantasy. One thought about TT's not being
> parallel and all of the sudden we have a whole new frame?
> Nah.

Did you see the name of the op?  It's not April 1 anymore, either.

Oh, yeah.  Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two
triangles are better than one geometry:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/

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[RBW] Re: Riddle me this.

[Buck]

Exactly. It's them nuances and the effect they have on our lives. And
actually the same friend who has the boat (which I don't understand
either) says it best... "there's an ass for every seat".

I was thinking just the other day how when I was growing up I had an
old Raleigh 3-speed with a Brooks seat. When I graduated to a "real"
road bike with a grooved and padded techno-seat I marveled at how I
ever rode on a ridiculous slab of leather stretched across a metal
frame. Over the years I must have gone through a half a dozen techno-
seats (and they weren't bad). And then when I bought my Atlantis I
spent $100 on a Brooks. And I l-o-v-e it. Most comfortable seat ever.
Weird.

I only ever had one other bike that did the same thing for me. Back in
the 1980's I did some consulting for Fat City Cycles. They made Fat
Chance Mountain bikes. I worked for free with the understanding that
at some point, whenever he felt that I'd finally earned it (or never
if I didn't), the owner would give me a bike. I worked for him for
several years and then one day I went to the shop and he looked at me
and said, "today's the day". It was cool. And I loved and cherished
that bike for almost 20 years. Just like my Atlantis.

On Apr 5, 11:24 am, Jon Grant  wrote:
> The money we spend and how we choose to spend it. Sheesh.
>
> I have a Joe S./Curt/Joe B. Rivendell custom that was damaged in a
> collision. While it was away for repair, I put almost all the parts on a
> (Panasonic-built?) Schwinn World Voyageur frame so I could continue riding
> to work. It was pretty enough, and rode just fine. One day, without thinking
> of all the possible ramifications of my words, I remarked to my wife, ³You
> know, that old Schwinn is about 70% as good a ride as the Rivendell.² Oops.
> She pulled up short and said, ³Wait. The bike you paid fifty bucks for is
> two thirds as good as the bike that cost us more than three grand?² After
> she started talking to me again, we had some long and interesting
> discussions about nuances of design and craftsmanship and their effect on
> function and quality of our lives, both individually and as a society. I
> still have the Riv and still catch myself staring at it, marveling at the
> details of joinery and paint, and marveling at the ride when astride it. The
> Schwinn has gone to a deserving home, with no regrets.
>
> I will say this: I CANNOT understand how some folks spend so much money on
> boats and fishing gear. Now that¹s just ridiculous.
>
> --
> Jon ³Kidding! I kid!² Grant, house-bound in
> Austin, Texas

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[RBW] Re: San Diego Custom BIcycle Show Rivendell Ri de! Apr. 11 Mixie •Velo Cult •Beer

[Esteban]

Our ride is onvthe show website!

http://www.sandiegocustombicycleshow.com/

Esteban
Sam Diego, Calif.
On Apr 5, 7:44 am, EricP  wrote:
> Well, yeah.  That too.  Most of my rides were early in the morning, so
> that wasn't as much a distraction.
>
> Also had a fun time watching some dolphins play in the surf.
> Something you definitely cannot see around here.  Although on my ride
> around Lake Pepin on the Hillborne, saw more bald eagles than I have
> in the past few years near Maiden Rock (the feature, not the town).
>
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>
> On Apr 4, 10:21 pm, Esteban  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Still in the Bay Area (down mid-week to teach, then up here later this
> > week for a conference -- whew!  I guess the 'quake was upgraded to a
> > 7.2.  The San Diego/Tijuana megalopolis shrugs it off.  My mother
> > reported, like Dustin, that it was quite a shake.  30 seconds.
>
> > So... the SDCBS is STILL ON!!!
>
> > Eric - when I ride along the boardwalk in Mission Beach, I must admit,
> > its not the houses I'm gawking at. I like the visions your memories
> > evoke, though!  Its easy to take one's hometown for granted.  Thanks
> > for the wake-up call.
>
> > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > On Apr 4, 6:27 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> > > What a coincidence!  Those are all events I would like to have repeated as
> > > well!
>
> > > On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 6:01 PM, EricP  wrote:
> > > > I know.  Just want to ride it again.  (Okay, and ride back up to
> > > > Mission Beach and gawk at the houses on the beach.  And ride to
> > > > Coronado.  And stop on the southern part of the loop to photograph the
> > > > old railroad depot.  And have another beer at the restaurant we
> > > > stopped at.  And . . . )
>
> > > > Eric Platt
> > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > On Apr 4, 6:16 pm, Esteban  wrote:
> > > > > Eric--some of this is the route we did last year.  Gonna be fun.
>
> > > > > On Apr 4, 5:48 am, EricP  wrote:
>
> > > > > > Wish I wasn't 3,000 or so miles away.  Would love to get back out
> > > > > > there and particpate in those rides.
>
> > > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > > > On Apr 4, 12:17 am, Esteban  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Forget the fact that I don't know what size bikes I ride.  Let's
> > > > ride,
> > > > > > > drink beer, and see fancy bikes! Highlights - Mixed terrain urban
> > > > > > > route!  Velo Cult!  Craft Beers! Big Time Bicycle Show!
>
> > > > > > > Last year, the SDCBS was a fantastic event - featuring 
> > > > > > > framebuilders
> > > > > > > new and old (figuratively and literally), and a nice Riv custom in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > Joe Bell booth.  A few of us rode a loop around San Diego Bay.  
> > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > is going to be a great event, and I hope some list members make 
> > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > of the show:
>
> > > > > > >http://www.sandiegocustombicycleshow.com/
>
> > > > > > > Of, course, the So Cal Rivendell Bicycle Appreciation Society will
> > > > > > > hold court on Sunday morning (April 11) for a mid city mixie.  For
> > > > > > > those who want to see the ocean and enjoy a bit more of a ride, 
> > > > > > > we'll
> > > > > > > meet at 9am at the Mission Bay Visitors Center and do this loop 
> > > > > > > (San
> > > > > > > Diego River, Ocean Beach, Sunset Cliffs, Pt. Loma, Downtown)... 
> > > > > > > then,
> > > > > > > we'll pick people up at the train station.
>
> > > > > > >http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Mid-City-Mixie-Extended-Route
>
> > > > > > > And for those who want to sleep in, and/or just want a tolken 
> > > > > > > ride to
> > > > > > > through two tolken dirt sections in the middle of one of the 
> > > > > > > largest
> > > > > > > cities in the U.S., meet us at 10ish at the Santa Fe Depot 
> > > > > > > downtown,
> > > > > > > and we'll cross downtown up to Balboa Park, through the Haunted 
> > > > > > > Trail
> > > > > > > along the 163, down the dirt section of Florida Canyon ( a bit 
> > > > > > > bumpy,
> > > > > > > but not bad), up to Velo Cult in South Park, then down 30th St. 
> > > > > > > ("The
> > > > > > > Brewlevard") to Blind Lady Ale House for a beer and lunch.  Then 
> > > > > > > down
> > > > > > > to the show:
>
> > > > > > >http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Mid-City-Mixie402176
>
> > > > > > > So, if you want to do 30 miles, meet at 9am at the Mission Bay
> > > > > > > Visitors Center.  For those who want a shorter 15 mile ride, we'll
> > > > > > > pick you up at Santa Fe Depot at 10ish.
>
> > > > > > > The ride will be short, prioritize the view, some dirt, a stop at
> > > > Velo
> > > > > > > Cult, and a craft beer and pizza.  Kid friendly!
>
> > > > > > > Esteban
> > > > > > > San Diego, Calif.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> > > > Groups
> > > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this gr

[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Garth]

Eric,

Riv isn't going to make any drastic changes to the Hunq, or else
they'd have to call it something else.

What you see here is pure fantasy. One thought about TT's not being
parallel and all of the sudden we have a whole new frame?
Nah.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Bill Connell]

Luggage style makes sense in that scenario, no matter the weight -
having a bike swinging around near head height in crowds might make
people nervous :-)


On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:27 PM, William  wrote:
> Bill
>
> Yeah, luggage style.  My BART bike tends to be in the 45-50lb range
> loaded with all my work related stuff.  My shoulder couldn't take
> that.
>
> other Bill
>
> On Apr 5, 10:14 am, Bill Connell  wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:48 AM, William  wrote:
>> > When I portage my Hillborne up and down the long steps of the South
>> > Hayward Bart station, I grab it hard on the seat tube and loop my
>> > thumb into the top loop of the King cage that is bolted to the seat
>> > tube.  If I'm wearing knit gloves, it's hard to get a good grip.  More
>> > than once I've thought that it would be great to have a second top
>> > tube about halfway down the seat tube to simplify urban portage.
>>
>> Portaging a bike is a main thing that gives me pause with the 2tt
>> designs. I may be wrong, but from your description, it sounds like
>> you're carrying the bike like a large piece of luggage, which might be
>> a lot simpler in a train station setting. In my case, there are at
>> least a couple of places around town where trail access involves a
>> long staircase or (on one offroad trail) a long log crossing, so i
>> shoulder the bike, cyclocross-style. I don't use a tt-mounted pump on
>> most bikes for this reason, and the smaller triangle of a 2tt would
>> make it more difficult. Of course, i recognize most people probably
>> don't generally have reason carry their bikes like this.
>>
>> --
>> Bill Connell
>> St. Paul, MN
>
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>



-- 
Bill Connell
St. Paul, MN

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[happyriding]

On Apr 5, 11:14 am, Bill Connell  wrote:
> In my case, there are at
> least a couple of places around town where trail access involves a
> long staircase or (on one offroad trail) a long log crossing, so i
> shoulder the bike, cyclocross-style. I don't use a tt-mounted pump on
> most bikes for this reason, and the smaller triangle of a 2tt would
> make it more difficult. Of course, i recognize most people probably
> don't generally have reason carry their bikes like this.
>

Other reasons to shoulder a bike:

2) Carrying a bike up the steps to an office or an apartment.

If Rivendell wants to differentiate the Hunqapillar's tubing from a
Bombadil, here are some other versions of different tube placements
for their consideration:

parallel down tube:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494189528/

parallel seat tube:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494187212/

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[William]

Bill

Yeah, luggage style.  My BART bike tends to be in the 45-50lb range
loaded with all my work related stuff.  My shoulder couldn't take
that.

other Bill

On Apr 5, 10:14 am, Bill Connell  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:48 AM, William  wrote:
> > When I portage my Hillborne up and down the long steps of the South
> > Hayward Bart station, I grab it hard on the seat tube and loop my
> > thumb into the top loop of the King cage that is bolted to the seat
> > tube.  If I'm wearing knit gloves, it's hard to get a good grip.  More
> > than once I've thought that it would be great to have a second top
> > tube about halfway down the seat tube to simplify urban portage.
>
> Portaging a bike is a main thing that gives me pause with the 2tt
> designs. I may be wrong, but from your description, it sounds like
> you're carrying the bike like a large piece of luggage, which might be
> a lot simpler in a train station setting. In my case, there are at
> least a couple of places around town where trail access involves a
> long staircase or (on one offroad trail) a long log crossing, so i
> shoulder the bike, cyclocross-style. I don't use a tt-mounted pump on
> most bikes for this reason, and the smaller triangle of a 2tt would
> make it more difficult. Of course, i recognize most people probably
> don't generally have reason carry their bikes like this.
>
> --
> Bill Connell
> St. Paul, MN

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Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Bill Connell]

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:48 AM, William  wrote:
> When I portage my Hillborne up and down the long steps of the South
> Hayward Bart station, I grab it hard on the seat tube and loop my
> thumb into the top loop of the King cage that is bolted to the seat
> tube.  If I'm wearing knit gloves, it's hard to get a good grip.  More
> than once I've thought that it would be great to have a second top
> tube about halfway down the seat tube to simplify urban portage.


Portaging a bike is a main thing that gives me pause with the 2tt
designs. I may be wrong, but from your description, it sounds like
you're carrying the bike like a large piece of luggage, which might be
a lot simpler in a train station setting. In my case, there are at
least a couple of places around town where trail access involves a
long staircase or (on one offroad trail) a long log crossing, so i
shoulder the bike, cyclocross-style. I don't use a tt-mounted pump on
most bikes for this reason, and the smaller triangle of a 2tt would
make it more difficult. Of course, i recognize most people probably
don't generally have reason carry their bikes like this.

-- 
Bill Connell
St. Paul, MN

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[cm]

Wow-- great mock up! I'll admit that it is much better than I expected
it to look, but i still don't get it. I am sure it is stronger, but
how much and is it necessary and isn't the Bomba pretty darn strong
with the parallel tt's? There are definite disadvantages to the
design, including bottle placement and carrying-- but how would they
ever quantify the advantages with out extremely complicated testing?
It seems a bit gimmicky and a bit different for the sake of being
different. Seem a bit out of left field...major last minute design
change.

Cheers!
cm

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[RBW] Re: 52cm Bombadil for sale REDUCED

[jinxed]

How about this:

-52cm raw clear Frame / Fork with Headset
-Rich built LX/Synergy wheels with Pacenti Quasi-moto 2.1's
-XT shadow rear derailleur
-XT (newer style) Crankset/BB
-XTR front derailleur
-Shimano slr canti brakes
-Nitto seatpost

1850 shipped within the US

Thanks
Brad

hbclick at yahoo dot com

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Michael_S]

speaking as a person who did/does not like the original design, either
of the "Marty Photoshop" designs are way better and lend a unique
quaulity to the bike. Just sayin".

~Mike~

On Apr 5, 9:48 am, William  wrote:
> When I portage my Hillborne up and down the long steps of the South
> Hayward Bart station, I grab it hard on the seat tube and loop my
> thumb into the top loop of the King cage that is bolted to the seat
> tube.  If I'm wearing knit gloves, it's hard to get a good grip.  More
> than once I've thought that it would be great to have a second top
> tube about halfway down the seat tube to simplify urban portage.
>
> On Apr 5, 9:12 am, "Allingham II, Thomas J"
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> > I don't post very often (Jim pointed out there's an endless footer attached 
> > to my messages when I do!), but let me offer the opinion of an Atlantis and 
> > Bombadil owner (which means that I ain't buying one no matter what the 
> > decision is):  I think the diagonal 2tt (the Campeur approach) is extremely 
> > attractive, AND cool, AND very likely highly, highly functional.  For those 
> > who agree with the first two judgments (and there will obviously be 
> > disagreements), it is a grand slam home run.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
> > [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of happyriding
> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:04 PM
> > To: RBW Owners Bunch
> > Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
>
> > Just an opinion, and not meant to insult anyone...but that is the
> > ugliest bike I've ever seen.   Sorry.  Just one opinion.
>
> > I suspect one reason Rivendell might like to do the diagonal 2tt is
> > marketing: it helps differentiate the Hunaqpillar from the Bombadil--
> > even if it doesn't improve on it.   But if Rivendell's goal is to
> > actually sell some frames, then I think a diagonal 2tt will be a tough 
> > sell.  But then I thought the Bomadil would be a tough sell, too.
>
> > Also, unless Rivendell does some testing on the strength differences (do 
> > they even have the capability?), I think that using a diagonal 2tt would be 
> > a rash decision.
>
> > As for people like EricP, this new diagonal 2tt idea seems contrary to 
> > everything Rivendell said during the pre-order period:
>
> > 1) Trust us
> > 2) July delivery a good possibility
> > 3) Only minor tweaks
>
> > I imagine Rivendell would be willing to return deposits--but that won't 
> > cure the disappointment.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
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>
> > ---­---
> > 
>
> > To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you 
> > that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice 
> > contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and 
> > cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under 
> > the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions 
> > or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any 
> > tax-related matters addressed herein.
> > 
> > 
>
> > This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the 
> > addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or 
> > confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this 
> > email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
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> > If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 
> > 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any 
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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Matt Critchlow]

I agree, great job marty!

I'm also with Matt on this for those who pre-ordered, and I'm one of
them. It would be a substantial change to the design that was
presented to early adopters and therefore if they're going to go
through with this they need to contact each of those people. It sounds
like an interesting design change, possibly for the better(looking and
functioning) but it's a much bigger change than adding lining to
lugs.. I'm sure they'll do the right thing though.

Now back to speculation!!

On Apr 5, 6:17 am, newenglandbike  wrote:
> Dude!   Marty, you are like, stupid fast with photoshop (or are you
> using GNU?).   Nice work man.  Either one looks good IMHO.    I've
> always thought the Alex Singer design was cool.
>
> But, if Rivendell does change the design, maybe they should contact
> the folks who have plunked down their money, and talk to them about it
> a bit.     I think most folks would probably be enthusiastic about the
> change, but some folks might not be.
>
> Matt
>
> On Apr 5, 8:38 am, Marty  wrote:
>
>
>
> > OK - here you go - even added a second rear brake like the Singer -
> > which BTW is one of my favorite designs...
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/ydcalff
>
> > Marty
>
> > On Apr 5, 8:29 am, Bruce  wrote:
>
> > > Good effort. Now, how would it look with the mixte stays added in as 
> > > well? Pretty good I think and a better support for the seat tube when 
> > > going trail bombing under big loads
>
> > > 
> > > From: Marty 
> > > To: RBW Owners Bunch 
> > > Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:06:11 AM
> > > Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
>
> > > Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal
> > > direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of
> > > liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what
> > > has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call.
>
> > >http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2
>
> > > Marty

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[William]

When I portage my Hillborne up and down the long steps of the South
Hayward Bart station, I grab it hard on the seat tube and loop my
thumb into the top loop of the King cage that is bolted to the seat
tube.  If I'm wearing knit gloves, it's hard to get a good grip.  More
than once I've thought that it would be great to have a second top
tube about halfway down the seat tube to simplify urban portage.





On Apr 5, 9:12 am, "Allingham II, Thomas J"
 wrote:
> I don't post very often (Jim pointed out there's an endless footer attached 
> to my messages when I do!), but let me offer the opinion of an Atlantis and 
> Bombadil owner (which means that I ain't buying one no matter what the 
> decision is):  I think the diagonal 2tt (the Campeur approach) is extremely 
> attractive, AND cool, AND very likely highly, highly functional.  For those 
> who agree with the first two judgments (and there will obviously be 
> disagreements), it is a grand slam home run.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of happyriding
> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:04 PM
> To: RBW Owners Bunch
> Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
>
> Just an opinion, and not meant to insult anyone...but that is the
> ugliest bike I've ever seen.   Sorry.  Just one opinion.
>
> I suspect one reason Rivendell might like to do the diagonal 2tt is
> marketing: it helps differentiate the Hunaqpillar from the Bombadil--
> even if it doesn't improve on it.   But if Rivendell's goal is to
> actually sell some frames, then I think a diagonal 2tt will be a tough sell.  
> But then I thought the Bomadil would be a tough sell, too.
>
> Also, unless Rivendell does some testing on the strength differences (do they 
> even have the capability?), I think that using a diagonal 2tt would be a rash 
> decision.
>
> As for people like EricP, this new diagonal 2tt idea seems contrary to 
> everything Rivendell said during the pre-order period:
>
> 1) Trust us
> 2) July delivery a good possibility
> 3) Only minor tweaks
>
> I imagine Rivendell would be willing to return deposits--but that won't cure 
> the disappointment.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> --
> 
>
> To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you 
> that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained 
> in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, 
> for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal 
> Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) 
> promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters 
> addressed herein.
> 
> 
>
> This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the 
> addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or 
> confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this 
> email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
> copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. 
> If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 
> 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any 
> email) and any printout thereof.
>
> Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their 
> professional qualifications will be provided upon request.
> 
> ==

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Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[James Dinneen]

I may have missed this earlier in the discusion, but I assume that the 54 would 
still have only one top tube. Is that the current understanding as far as we 
know?Jim D                Massachusetts

--- On Mon, 4/5/10, Bill Connell  wrote:

From: Bill Connell 
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 10:48 AM

The mockups are really helpful, thanks for putting them together. I
have to say, i greatly prefer the look of parallel top tubes, if a
double TT is the plan, but i'm not on the Hunq list, so my vote is
more theoretical.

Two other observations in this discussion though:
This is the second Riv frame that seems to be getting significant
input from someone other than Grant (Rodeo designed by Mark, Keven at
least some decisions on this one). Maybe this has happened before with
less discussion, but it's interesting that it's part of the
conversation with these frames.

Also, if the 2nd top tube angle changes, will the decal have to change
so the 2nd line in the Hunq's H matches it? (in the 2tt world, i like
that this logo mirrors the frame)

-- 
Bill Connell
St. Paul, MN



On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Marty  wrote:
> Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal
> direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of
> liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what
> has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2
>
> Marty
>
> On Apr 5, 6:33 am, EricP  wrote:
>> Will wait until a photo is there before getting too depressed by it.
>> However, it's turning into a different bike than the one I ordered.
>> Really hoping that it is going to be worth the extra wait.  And since
>> the seat tube won't be able to take a bottle cage, the shifted 2nd tt
>> will hopefully have cage bosses?
>>
>> Yes, yes, am complaining and whining about this way too much.
>>
>> But now, a 29er mixte.  That would be cool.  And something I'd ride.
>> A lot.
>>
>> Eric Platt
>> St. Pau, MN
>>
>> On Apr 4, 11:30 pm, Grant Petersen  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Midpoint of headtube to midpoint of seat tube. Sorta mixte-like. (Jim
>> > Thrill/Hiawatha said...)
>>
>> > Keven loves the 62 Betty/Yves, and rides it a lot, and rode it with weight,
>> > and remarked how well it carried it, not what you'd expect from a mixte. 
>> > But
>> > the design like that works, and that lead to the diagonalization of the 2tt
>> > (second top tube, I'm tired of typing it all out), and some friendly 
>> > turmoil
>> > here. It's Keven's call, which way it goes, but I think it's looking
>> > diagonal. That's where I'd put my puka-shells.
>>
>> > G
>>
>> > --
>> > Grant
>> > Rivendell Bicycle Workswww.rivbike.com
>> > 925 933 7304
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[rswatson]

When will we get an electronic version?
Paper is SO 2nd century!



On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:00 AM, jan_heine  wrote:

>> I know a lot of folks here read Vintage Bicycle Quarterly. A friend
>> received the latest issue on 04/03. I imagine mine should arrive
>> today. Beth H's Rivendell is featured in this issues "My Favorite
>> Bike" article.
> 
> Just a quick note: The magazine has been "Bicycle Quarterly" for quite
> a few years now. We dropped the "Vintage" from the name to highlight
> that it's not about old bikes, but about quality bikes of all ages.
> Check out the contents of the Spring 2010 issue, and you'll see that
> while there is plenty of fascinating history, our view is forward-
> looking, with tests of modern bikes (including one with Campagnolo
> Super Record 11-speed _and_ 650B wheels) and components (Electra's new
> Ticino cranks, hubs, etc.). We examine technical issues that matter to
> real-world riders, like the effect of wheel size on handling. See a
> preview of the Spring issue at
> 
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/currentissue.html
> 
> and the full table of contents at
> 
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/contents.html
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 2116 Western Ave.
> Seattle WA 98121
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com
> 
> -- 
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RE: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I don't post very often (Jim pointed out there's an endless footer attached to 
my messages when I do!), but let me offer the opinion of an Atlantis and 
Bombadil owner (which means that I ain't buying one no matter what the decision 
is):  I think the diagonal 2tt (the Campeur approach) is extremely attractive, 
AND cool, AND very likely highly, highly functional.  For those who agree with 
the first two judgments (and there will obviously be disagreements), it is a 
grand slam home run. 

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of happyriding
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:04 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

Just an opinion, and not meant to insult anyone...but that is the
ugliest bike I've ever seen.   Sorry.  Just one opinion.

I suspect one reason Rivendell might like to do the diagonal 2tt is
marketing: it helps differentiate the Hunaqpillar from the Bombadil--
even if it doesn't improve on it.   But if Rivendell's goal is to
actually sell some frames, then I think a diagonal 2tt will be a tough sell.  
But then I thought the Bomadil would be a tough sell, too.

Also, unless Rivendell does some testing on the strength differences (do they 
even have the capability?), I think that using a diagonal 2tt would be a rash 
decision.

As for people like EricP, this new diagonal 2tt idea seems contrary to 
everything Rivendell said during the pre-order period:

1) Trust us
2) July delivery a good possibility
3) Only minor tweaks

I imagine Rivendell would be willing to return deposits--but that won't cure 
the disappointment.



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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[Mojo]

I appreciate BQ, extremely well done. I just gave a gift subscription
to a friend who I think will enjoy it as much as I, but hasn't drunk
the Koolaid.

On Apr 5, 9:00 am, jan_heine  wrote:
> > I know a lot of folks here read Vintage Bicycle Quarterly. A friend
> > received the latest issue on 04/03. I imagine mine should arrive
> > today. Beth H's Rivendell is featured in this issues "My Favorite
> > Bike" article.
>
> Just a quick note: The magazine has been "Bicycle Quarterly" for quite
> a few years now. We dropped the "Vintage" from the name to highlight
> that it's not about old bikes, but about quality bikes of all ages.
> Check out the contents of the Spring 2010 issue, and you'll see that
> while there is plenty of fascinating history, our view is forward-
> looking, with tests of modern bikes (including one with Campagnolo
> Super Record 11-speed _and_ 650B wheels) and components (Electra's new
> Ticino cranks, hubs, etc.). We examine technical issues that matter to
> real-world riders, like the effect of wheel size on handling. See a
> preview of the Spring issue at
>
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/currentissue.html
>
> and the full table of contents at
>
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/contents.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 2116 Western Ave.
> Seattle WA 98121http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com

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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 BQ on the way

[Mike]

Subject corrected. Sorry about that Jan. I think it's probably been BQ
as long as I've been reading it (3yrs) and just didn't notice that.

I'm hoping mine will arrive today, give me something to read on this
rainy day.

--mike

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Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Shaun Meehan]

Can't decide if I have a preference between the parallel vs. the
diagonal 2nd top tube. Aesthetically, I didn't like the 2nd top tube
at all when the first Bombadil pictures "dropped". Now I don't mind
it. In fact I kind of like how it looks. I kind of think that the
diagonal 2tt might grow on me in the same way.

Shaun Meehan

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[happyriding]

Just an opinion, and not meant to insult anyone...but that is the
ugliest bike I've ever seen.   Sorry.  Just one opinion.

I suspect one reason Rivendell might like to do the diagonal 2tt is
marketing: it helps differentiate the Hunaqpillar from the Bombadil--
even if it doesn't improve on it.   But if Rivendell's goal is to
actually sell some frames, then I think a diagonal 2tt will be a tough
sell.  But then I thought the Bomadil would be a tough sell, too.

Also, unless Rivendell does some testing on the strength differences
(do they even have the capability?), I think that using a diagonal 2tt
would be a rash decision.

As for people like EricP, this new diagonal 2tt idea seems contrary to
everything Rivendell said during the pre-order period:

1) Trust us
2) July delivery a good possibility
3) Only minor tweaks

I imagine Rivendell would be willing to return deposits--but that
won't cure the disappointment.



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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[William]

No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy.

On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:
> > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced.  Jars my view
> > too much.  Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike.  Fine.  I'm
> > fat.  That's been established.  Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> > riding a "special" bike.
>
> > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> > original Breezer, that might work.  That's a copy of the Schwinn
> > Excelsior frame.
>
> > Also, on a slightly different note.  With the center tube, would make
> > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without
> > interference.  At least on a 58.  And forget using a pump with a mount
> > like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
> > Without the extra standover.
>
> > Yes, I'm upset about this.  Will probably end up losing a lot of money
> > selling off my frame without building it up.  Not something I can live
> > happily with.
>
> > Sigh.
>
> > Eric Platt
> > St. Paul, MN
>
> Eric,
>
> If Riv makes the change, I would just call them.  I would not be suprised if
> they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the
> change to the top tube.
>
> Dan Abelson
> St. Paul, MN

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[Stuart Fletcher]

I received the latest issue on Friday.  I live in Seattle, so I have
an advantage :-).  I've read it cover to cover and am ready to
re-read.  It's another great one, as usual.  Everyone has some good
reading to look forward to as spring is finally coming on!

Great job again Jan Heine and all contributors!  I'm very thankful for
Bicycle Quarterly.

Stuart ("no spoilers") Fletcher
Seattle, WA

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 8:31 AM, newenglandbike  wrote:
> I was just re-reading some back issues of Bicycle Quarterly last
> night.   I really enjoy this magazine.  It is beyond comparison to any
> other bicycling magazine I've ever seen.   Packed with great
> information-   from real-world aerodynamic testing, comfort & the flex
> of fork-blades, issues of fork geo/trail, to how the Campagnolo Paris-
> Roubaix shifter works (something i didn't even know existed until I
> read about it in BQ- it's fascinating!).
>
> Whether you agree with some of the more philosophical points, or
> issues of 'taste' discussed in it or not, it's a friggin' awesome
> mag.   I only wish it were full-color sometimes, because I'm sure some
> of the photographs from the rides of Mr. Heine et al would be even
> more spellbinding in the full spectrum.
>
> It's great for those times when you can't be on the bike.
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 5, 11:00 am, jan_heine  wrote:
>> > I know a lot of folks here read Vintage Bicycle Quarterly. A friend
>> > received the latest issue on 04/03. I imagine mine should arrive
>> > today. Beth H's Rivendell is featured in this issues "My Favorite
>> > Bike" article.
>>
>> Just a quick note: The magazine has been "Bicycle Quarterly" for quite
>> a few years now. We dropped the "Vintage" from the name to highlight
>> that it's not about old bikes, but about quality bikes of all ages.
>> Check out the contents of the Spring 2010 issue, and you'll see that
>> while there is plenty of fascinating history, our view is forward-
>> looking, with tests of modern bikes (including one with Campagnolo
>> Super Record 11-speed _and_ 650B wheels) and components (Electra's new
>> Ticino cranks, hubs, etc.). We examine technical issues that matter to
>> real-world riders, like the effect of wheel size on handling. See a
>> preview of the Spring issue at
>>
>> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/currentissue.html
>>
>> and the full table of contents at
>>
>> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/contents.html
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jan Heine
>> Editor
>> Bicycle Quarterly
>> 2116 Western Ave.
>> Seattle WA 98121http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com
>
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>

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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[newenglandbike]

I was just re-reading some back issues of Bicycle Quarterly last
night.   I really enjoy this magazine.  It is beyond comparison to any
other bicycling magazine I've ever seen.   Packed with great
information-   from real-world aerodynamic testing, comfort & the flex
of fork-blades, issues of fork geo/trail, to how the Campagnolo Paris-
Roubaix shifter works (something i didn't even know existed until I
read about it in BQ- it's fascinating!).

Whether you agree with some of the more philosophical points, or
issues of 'taste' discussed in it or not, it's a friggin' awesome
mag.   I only wish it were full-color sometimes, because I'm sure some
of the photographs from the rides of Mr. Heine et al would be even
more spellbinding in the full spectrum.

It's great for those times when you can't be on the bike.


Matt




On Apr 5, 11:00 am, jan_heine  wrote:
> > I know a lot of folks here read Vintage Bicycle Quarterly. A friend
> > received the latest issue on 04/03. I imagine mine should arrive
> > today. Beth H's Rivendell is featured in this issues "My Favorite
> > Bike" article.
>
> Just a quick note: The magazine has been "Bicycle Quarterly" for quite
> a few years now. We dropped the "Vintage" from the name to highlight
> that it's not about old bikes, but about quality bikes of all ages.
> Check out the contents of the Spring 2010 issue, and you'll see that
> while there is plenty of fascinating history, our view is forward-
> looking, with tests of modern bikes (including one with Campagnolo
> Super Record 11-speed _and_ 650B wheels) and components (Electra's new
> Ticino cranks, hubs, etc.). We examine technical issues that matter to
> real-world riders, like the effect of wheel size on handling. See a
> preview of the Spring issue at
>
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/currentissue.html
>
> and the full table of contents at
>
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/contents.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 2116 Western Ave.
> Seattle WA 98121http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Dan Abelson]

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:

> Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced.  Jars my view
> too much.  Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike.  Fine.  I'm
> fat.  That's been established.  Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> riding a "special" bike.
>
> With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> original Breezer, that might work.  That's a copy of the Schwinn
> Excelsior frame.
>
> Also, on a slightly different note.  With the center tube, would make
> it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without
> interference.  At least on a 58.  And forget using a pump with a mount
> like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
> Without the extra standover.
>
> Yes, I'm upset about this.  Will probably end up losing a lot of money
> selling off my frame without building it up.  Not something I can live
> happily with.
>
> Sigh.
>
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>

Eric,

If Riv makes the change, I would just call them.  I would not be suprised if
they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the
change to the top tube.

Dan Abelson
St. Paul, MN

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[RBW] Re: FS: 55cm A Homer Hilsen and miscellaneous parts

[jinxed]

Steve,

PM sent!!

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[RBW] Re: Kickstands

[Dave Craig]

Lots of people like the Esge two leg stands. I can only speak from my
experience and from comparing parking my wife's bike with parking my
bike for two months of touring. She seemed to be able to park anywhere
while I had to be a lot more selective.

Lifting a wheel clear of the ground was the only good thing I found
with a two legged stand. However, with a touring load, I didn't find
this all that stable or desireable. Without the panniers (and my
panniers take less than a minute to remove), it is just as easy to
flip the bike over onto the bars and seat.

In my experience with my 60 cm Bombadil, I found the center Esge 2 leg
stand to be unstable on anything but dead flat, hard ground. I mention
the size of the bike because I wondered whether the height provided a
greater lever for destabilizing it.

David mentions not being able to use rear triangle stands with a kid
trailer. This is true for some set-ups, but not all. For example,
Burley makes an axle hitch that substitutes for the "classic hitch"
that would compete for space on the rear triangle with the kickstand.
We don't have kids, but we do have a Burley Nomad, and it tows just
fine with the axle hitch and the rear kickstand.

Dave



On Apr 4, 11:07 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> The nice thing about a 2-leg stand is that it will hold the bike up when a
> wheel is removed for repair (you may have to weight front or rear to keep
> the bike's other wheel on the ground), which in my opinion (opinion only, as
> I've not yet toured) might be good for loaded touring.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Dave Craig  wrote:
> > +1 for the rear mounted stand. I've used a 2-legged ESGE stand and
> > single legged stands on bike tours and, while they are better than no
> > stand at all, they are finicky. I installed a rear triangle stand on
> > my wife's touring bike last summer. She could park on nearly any
> > surface and her bike was stable. I was definitely envious!
>
> > Patrick - If you have a mount brazed on, I'd love to see the design.
>
> > Dave
>
> > On Apr 4, 6:05 pm, Seth Vidal  wrote:
> > > On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 8:57 PM, PATRICK MOORE 
> > wrote:
> > > > Second, if you leave
> > > > it long enough, it seems to support even off-center loads far, far
> > better
> > > > than does a bb-mount 1-leg stand and, I dare say, perhaps even better
> > than a
> > > > 2-leg stand. I have yet to test it with, say, 25 lb in the leftside
> > pannier,
> > > > but with 15 lb, it supports the bike fine, especially if you turn the
> > front
> > > > wheel sharply to the right.
>
> > > I agree with this. They work quite well, even for our tandem when we
> > > put a bunch of crap on it.
>
> > > > I think that, God willing, I shall have some brazing done to the
> > Motobecane
> > > > (Riv content: this is a very Riv-ish bike: an upscale racing model that
> > can
> > > > carry 45 lb of groceries and wear 30 mm tire with fenders). First, a
> > > > left-rear-triangle kickstand mount.
>
> > > okay - tell me how where you find a mount plate like that? I think
> > > it'd be great to have a kickstand plate mounted there but I have no
> > > idea how it would work.
>
> > > -sv
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
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> > For more options, visit this group at
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>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
> (505) 227-0523- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Riddle me this.

[Jon Grant]

The money we spend and how we choose to spend it. Sheesh.

I have a Joe S./Curt/Joe B. Rivendell custom that was damaged in a
collision. While it was away for repair, I put almost all the parts on a
(Panasonic-built?) Schwinn World Voyageur frame so I could continue riding
to work. It was pretty enough, and rode just fine. One day, without thinking
of all the possible ramifications of my words, I remarked to my wife, ³You
know, that old Schwinn is about 70% as good a ride as the Rivendell.² Oops.
She pulled up short and said, ³Wait. The bike you paid fifty bucks for is
two thirds as good as the bike that cost us more than three grand?² After
she started talking to me again, we had some long and interesting
discussions about nuances of design and craftsmanship and their effect on
function and quality of our lives, both individually and as a society. I
still have the Riv and still catch myself staring at it, marveling at the
details of joinery and paint, and marveling at the ride when astride it. The
Schwinn has gone to a deserving home, with no regrets.

I will say this: I CANNOT understand how some folks spend so much money on
boats and fishing gear. Now that¹s just ridiculous.

--
Jon ³Kidding! I kid!² Grant, house-bound in
Austin, Texas

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[EricP]

Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced.  Jars my view
too much.  Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike.  Fine.  I'm
fat.  That's been established.  Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
riding a "special" bike.

With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
original Breezer, that might work.  That's a copy of the Schwinn
Excelsior frame.

Also, on a slightly different note.  With the center tube, would make
it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without
interference.  At least on a 58.  And forget using a pump with a mount
like the Topeak Morph series.

Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
Without the extra standover.

Yes, I'm upset about this.  Will probably end up losing a lot of money
selling off my frame without building it up.  Not something I can live
happily with.

Sigh.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Apr 5, 9:48 am, Bill Connell  wrote:
> The mockups are really helpful, thanks for putting them together. I
> have to say, i greatly prefer the look of parallel top tubes, if a
> double TT is the plan, but i'm not on the Hunq list, so my vote is
> more theoretical.
>
> Two other observations in this discussion though:
> This is the second Riv frame that seems to be getting significant
> input from someone other than Grant (Rodeo designed by Mark, Keven at
> least some decisions on this one). Maybe this has happened before with
> less discussion, but it's interesting that it's part of the
> conversation with these frames.
>
> Also, if the 2nd top tube angle changes, will the decal have to change
> so the 2nd line in the Hunq's H matches it? (in the 2tt world, i like
> that this logo mirrors the frame)
>
> --
> Bill Connell
> St. Paul, MN
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Marty  wrote:
> > Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal
> > direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of
> > liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what
> > has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call.
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2
>
> > Marty
>
> > On Apr 5, 6:33 am, EricP  wrote:
> >> Will wait until a photo is there before getting too depressed by it.
> >> However, it's turning into a different bike than the one I ordered.
> >> Really hoping that it is going to be worth the extra wait.  And since
> >> the seat tube won't be able to take a bottle cage, the shifted 2nd tt
> >> will hopefully have cage bosses?
>
> >> Yes, yes, am complaining and whining about this way too much.
>
> >> But now, a 29er mixte.  That would be cool.  And something I'd ride.
> >> A lot.
>
> >> Eric Platt
> >> St. Pau, MN
>
> >> On Apr 4, 11:30 pm, Grant Petersen  wrote:
>
> >> > Midpoint of headtube to midpoint of seat tube. Sorta mixte-like. (Jim
> >> > Thrill/Hiawatha said...)
>
> >> > Keven loves the 62 Betty/Yves, and rides it a lot, and rode it with 
> >> > weight,
> >> > and remarked how well it carried it, not what you'd expect from a mixte. 
> >> > But
> >> > the design like that works, and that lead to the diagonalization of the 
> >> > 2tt
> >> > (second top tube, I'm tired of typing it all out), and some friendly 
> >> > turmoil
> >> > here. It's Keven's call, which way it goes, but I think it's looking
> >> > diagonal. That's where I'd put my puka-shells.
>
> >> > G
>
> >> > --
> >> > Grant
> >> > Rivendell Bicycle Workswww.rivbike.com
> >> > 925 933 7304
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group 
> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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RE: [RBW] Egglantis

[Frederick, Steve]

Very nice but I find those thin-wall models very prone to cracking...

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of James Warren
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 9:57 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Egglantis



http://www.flickr.com/photos/46035...@n07/4491924612/

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[RBW] Re: FS: 55cm A Homer Hilsen and miscellaneous parts

[stevep33]

Sorry, Ryan...not Dan.

On Apr 5, 11:17 am, stevep33  wrote:
> Thanks Dan.  I debated letting this one go for a long while.  It's a
> wonderful bike.
>
> On Apr 5, 10:58 am, RoadieRyan  wrote:
>
> > Steve that is a damn gorgeous bike I am sure it will find a good home.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 55cm A Homer Hilsen and miscellaneous parts

[stevep33]

Thanks Dan.  I debated letting this one go for a long while.  It's a
wonderful bike.

On Apr 5, 10:58 am, RoadieRyan  wrote:
> Steve that is a damn gorgeous bike I am sure it will find a good home.
>

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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[jan_heine]

> I know a lot of folks here read Vintage Bicycle Quarterly. A friend
> received the latest issue on 04/03. I imagine mine should arrive
> today. Beth H's Rivendell is featured in this issues "My Favorite
> Bike" article.

Just a quick note: The magazine has been "Bicycle Quarterly" for quite
a few years now. We dropped the "Vintage" from the name to highlight
that it's not about old bikes, but about quality bikes of all ages.
Check out the contents of the Spring 2010 issue, and you'll see that
while there is plenty of fascinating history, our view is forward-
looking, with tests of modern bikes (including one with Campagnolo
Super Record 11-speed _and_ 650B wheels) and components (Electra's new
Ticino cranks, hubs, etc.). We examine technical issues that matter to
real-world riders, like the effect of wheel size on handling. See a
preview of the Spring issue at

http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/currentissue.html

and the full table of contents at

http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/contents.html

Thanks,

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
2116 Western Ave.
Seattle WA 98121
http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com

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[RBW] Re: Good stuff for sale, no junk, take a look!

[hobie]

I'll take the noodle bars.James

On Apr 5, 1:49 am, cyclotourist  wrote:
> Updated showing items still available, thanks for the interest!
>
> $5 shipping any one item.  Saddles are $10 shipping.  Two or more items get
> *FREE *shipping thrown in.  Can deliver to San Diego for the show next
> weekend.
>
> Mostly Rivendellish/retro-grouchy parts:
> Brooks Green B17 - $65 - used, copper dulled on rails, cosmetic only,
> leather is great! 
> Brooks Black Conquest - $75 -  used in box - Pre 2000 badge which is kinda'
> cool. 
> Nitto Jaguar - $90 - ultimate nice post NIB unused, etc.  Masterpiece of
> seat posts.  Full price but free
> shipping
> Tektro interrupter levers - black, logo removed -  $15 No Pic
> Nitto Noodle bars - Very LOW miles - 46cm heat treated - $55 No Pic
> Shimano Freewheel 6spd MF-HG22 - near new-
> $10
> 110bcd X 34T chainring - take off from crankset, new but mounted - $10 - $2
> shipping 
> 58bcd X 22T chainring - steel, new -
> $10- $2
> shipping
>
> Mordor influenced CF parts:
> IRD Pro-Carbon Handlebar - 660 wide, 9^backsweep, 44mm rise, 180 g. - $30
> with Titec CF barends
> Easton EC70 27.2 seatpost - zigzag from removal on clearcoat
> $30
>
> Complete Bike:
> Trek 330 (Reynolds 531) 24"/61cm 
> $300http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/3013857978/
> Brooks B17, Nitto Noodles/Tech Dlx, Flip/flop single speed hub w/ MA3 rim in
> rear.
> No rust, some paint wear, no dings/dents.
> GREAT single speed or build it back to a traditional tubed road bike!
> More pics a'comin' on this.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
> Redlands, CA
>
> "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
> wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,
> scientist guy

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[RBW] Re: FS: 55cm A Homer Hilsen and miscellaneous parts

[RoadieRyan]

Steve that is a damn gorgeous bike I am sure it will find a good home.

On Apr 5, 7:16 am, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> Whoops about the wheels. I thought they might be a second, lighter wheelset
> for the Monocog but then remembered that the Monocog has disk brakes. So,
> withdraw request for wheels but would like the cogs and the brake. Thanks,
> PAM
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:56 AM, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:51 AM, stevep33  wrote:
>
> >> FOR SALE:
>
> >> - Dura Ace track cogs 3/32 in 15T, 16T, 17T, black $7 each
>
> >> - front brake, Shimano BR-A550 short reach side pull w/ salmon brake
> >> pads $10
>
> >> - fix/free wheelset.  Mavic CXP22 rims on Formula hubs (120mm, re-
> >> spaced to 130mm) - well-used.  rear track nuts work but are beat up.
> >> $50/set
>
> >> I'll take these. $50 for the *pair* of wheels?
>
> > Thanks. PAM
>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
> (505) 227-0523

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[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[EricP]

I'm a fan of the Ortliebs.  Mainly due to the ease of cleaning the
outside of winter grit and grime.

In absolute terms, have a set of Arkel Sackaroos I purchased from Jim
a few years ago.  They work as fine as anything.  Even with the basic
attachement system, haven't had problems.

Did have my hobo bag soak through on a 60 miler last year.  Probably
the same day Jim mentions.

On Apr 5, 7:03 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
wrote:
> IMO waterproofness is good but not absolutely necessary. I rode a
> century in an absolute downpour last year. All my stuff in a decidedly
> non-waterproof Minnehaha pannier stayed dry, except at the bottom
> where road splash did soak through and dampen some of my extra
> clothes. This was what I would consider an extreme condition.
>
> A friend of mine is planning to roll through his 500,000th mile this
> summer. He has done many long tours. His approach is to never ride in
> the rain. If it rains during a tour, he finds a place to wait it out.
>
> On Apr 4, 9:45 pm, happyriding  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I had pretty much decided to get some Ortliebs, but then I read this
> > thread:
>
> >http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-270129.html
>
> > which points out that waterproof may not be such a good thing in hot
> > weather.   What are some good non-waterproof panniers?
>
> > Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Bill Connell]

The mockups are really helpful, thanks for putting them together. I
have to say, i greatly prefer the look of parallel top tubes, if a
double TT is the plan, but i'm not on the Hunq list, so my vote is
more theoretical.

Two other observations in this discussion though:
This is the second Riv frame that seems to be getting significant
input from someone other than Grant (Rodeo designed by Mark, Keven at
least some decisions on this one). Maybe this has happened before with
less discussion, but it's interesting that it's part of the
conversation with these frames.

Also, if the 2nd top tube angle changes, will the decal have to change
so the 2nd line in the Hunq's H matches it? (in the 2tt world, i like
that this logo mirrors the frame)

-- 
Bill Connell
St. Paul, MN



On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Marty  wrote:
> Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal
> direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of
> liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what
> has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2
>
> Marty
>
> On Apr 5, 6:33 am, EricP  wrote:
>> Will wait until a photo is there before getting too depressed by it.
>> However, it's turning into a different bike than the one I ordered.
>> Really hoping that it is going to be worth the extra wait.  And since
>> the seat tube won't be able to take a bottle cage, the shifted 2nd tt
>> will hopefully have cage bosses?
>>
>> Yes, yes, am complaining and whining about this way too much.
>>
>> But now, a 29er mixte.  That would be cool.  And something I'd ride.
>> A lot.
>>
>> Eric Platt
>> St. Pau, MN
>>
>> On Apr 4, 11:30 pm, Grant Petersen  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Midpoint of headtube to midpoint of seat tube. Sorta mixte-like. (Jim
>> > Thrill/Hiawatha said...)
>>
>> > Keven loves the 62 Betty/Yves, and rides it a lot, and rode it with weight,
>> > and remarked how well it carried it, not what you'd expect from a mixte. 
>> > But
>> > the design like that works, and that lead to the diagonalization of the 2tt
>> > (second top tube, I'm tired of typing it all out), and some friendly 
>> > turmoil
>> > here. It's Keven's call, which way it goes, but I think it's looking
>> > diagonal. That's where I'd put my puka-shells.
>>
>> > G
>>
>> > --
>> > Grant
>> > Rivendell Bicycle Workswww.rivbike.com
>> > 925 933 7304
>
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>
>

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