date:20130111

That depends on your rim and somewhat on you.  For me, I've run my pair of 
Jack Brown greens on four different wheelsets in my stable (I know, I 
know).  I've never had to use a tire lever to get them on or off.  Bare 
hands.   

On Friday, January 11, 2013 9:26:26 AM UTC-8, George Schick wrote:

 Thanks for all the replies about the Jack Browns.  My second question 
 would be, since these are folders, how difficult are they to get on and 
 off?  My experiences with folders over the years have not necessarily been 
 pleasant.


 On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 4:15:39 PM UTC-6, George Schick wrote:

 Upon close examination of the tread wear and condition of the sidewalls 
 on my current tires, it's plain that it's time for a new pair.  The Jack 
 Brown discount that Riv is offering on their Internet garage sale e-mail 
 flyer looks intriguing.  So I surfing into their web site to look 'em over. 
  One thing that isn't mentioned anyplace (that I could find, anyway) was 
 whether these tires have wire beads or are folders.  Anyone know?



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[RBW] Re: Jack Brown Sale

2013-01-11 Thread pb

George, my two pairs, one pair on Mavic Open Pro wheels, and one on 
Velocity, have both been easy on and off.  No drama.  I use one tire lever, 
easily zippered around the wheel, to get them off.  Knock wood, I don't 
think you have any reason to be concerned, and yeah, I have also 
experienced very tight tires.
 
~pb
 
On Friday, January 11, 2013 9:26:26 AM UTC-8, George Schick wrote:

 Thanks for all the replies about the Jack Browns.  My second question 
 would be, since these are folders, how difficult are they to get on and 
 off?  My experiences with folders over the years have not necessarily been 
 pleasant.


 On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 4:15:39 PM UTC-6, George Schick wrote:

 Upon close examination of the tread wear and condition of the sidewalls 
 on my current tires, it's plain that it's time for a new pair.  The Jack 
 Brown discount that Riv is offering on their Internet garage sale e-mail 
 flyer looks intriguing.  So I surfing into their web site to look 'em over. 
  One thing that isn't mentioned anyplace (that I could find, anyway) was 
 whether these tires have wire beads or are folders.  Anyone know?



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Re: [RBW] Do Pitlocks scratch paint on your seat tube collar?

Ha!  Good point.  Just garbage bag your brooks and duct tape your
Nitto lugged seatpost and all will be good ;).

Toshi


On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Andy Forquer forq...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think if you are paranoid about your saddle getting stolen by guys
 carrying hex wrenches, then you should recognize that they could just as
 easily disassemble the saddle from the post itself.  Given the relative
 value of the saddle, I just loop a piece of vinyl covered steel braided
 cable, crimp it at the hardware store, and leave my post to be stolen or not
 stolen.

 I also have some locking skewers --- so around Oakland and SF I only bring a
 mini u-lock to secure the frame.

 -Andy

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse book now shipping!

2013-01-11 Thread davidfrench

I wish I could have help you with french copy!
:-)


On Friday, January 11, 2013 6:44:08 AM UTC-8, Jan Heine wrote:

 The new René Herse book has arrived in Seattle and is now shipping. 
 Last week, we already presented the first copy of the book (shipped by 
 air) to Lyli Herse, the daughter of the famous constructeur, in Paris, 
 in the presence of a few of the old riders who were on Herse's team. 
 It was a moving moment, one of the highlights of my career. On our 
 blog, I posted a few photos of the ceremony and of several very 
 special René Herse bikes, including a never-ridden mixte from 1945, 
 that are featured in the book: 

 http://janheine.wordpress.com/ 

 Jan Heine 
 Editor 
 Bicycle Quarterly 
 http://www.bikequarterly.com 


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Re: [RBW] Plastic Fenders and Hetres

I've been using the SKS Longboard fender with Hetres.  The work great for me.

Toshi


On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 10:06 PM, Daniel datadatadan...@gmail.com wrote:
 After some reading on fenders, I'm ready to go for it. I've heard a lot of
 horror stories about installing metal fenders, though. I have a set on my
 Schwinn and they're solid, but the install took forever. The metal fenders
 on my Kogswell used to shift around (a bad install; blame the mechanic:
 me!).

 Anyway for my new bike, I'm looking for some fenders that'll fit the large
 and lovely Grand Bois Hetre 650B x 42mm. Any suggestions?

 Thanks!

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Re: [RBW] Plastic Fenders and Hetres

2013-01-11 Thread Dave

Hey Michael,

Which brakes do you have on you bleriot to fit the hetres with the p50s?

Thanks!
dave

On Friday, January 11, 2013 9:15:35 AM UTC-8, Michael Williams wrote:

 I have the SKS silver plastic ones on my Bleriot with Hetres,  they fit 
 perfect.   I used to have aluminum ones,   but i prefer the plastic because 
 they can bumped a little more and still hold their shape better.   As for 
 the size,   they are the P50's.   hope this helps  -Mike

 On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 10:06 PM, Daniel datadat...@gmail.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 After some reading on fenders, I'm ready to go for it. I've heard a lot 
 of horror stories about installing metal fenders, though. I have a set on 
 my Schwinn and they're solid, but the install took forever. The metal 
 fenders on my Kogswell used to shift around (a bad install; blame the 
 mechanic: me!).

 Anyway for my new bike, I'm looking for some fenders that'll fit the 
 large and lovely Grand Bois Hetre 650B x 42mm. Any suggestions? 

 Thanks!

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Re: [RBW] Plastic Fenders and Hetres

2013-01-11 Thread Michael Williams

The Silver brakes from Riv which are just Tektro 559s labeled 'Silver' I
believe. -Mike

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Dave davele...@gmail.com wrote:

Hey Michael,

Which brakes do you have on you bleriot to fit the hetres with the p50s?

Thanks!
dave

On Friday, January 11, 2013 9:15:35 AM UTC-8, Michael Williams wrote:

I have the SKS silver plastic ones on my Bleriot with Hetres, they fit
perfect. I used to have aluminum ones, but i prefer the plastic because
they can bumped a little more and still hold their shape better. As for
the size, they are the P50's. hope this helps -Mike

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 10:06 PM, Daniel datadat...@gmail.com wrote:

After some reading on fenders, I'm ready to go for it. I've heard a lot
of horror stories about installing metal fenders, though. I have a set on
my Schwinn and they're solid, but the install took forever. The metal
fenders on my Kogswell used to shift around (a bad install; blame the
mechanic: me!).

Anyway for my new bike, I'm looking for some fenders that'll fit the
large and lovely Grand Bois Hetre 650B x 42mm. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

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[RBW] Re: Jack Brown Sale

2013-01-11 Thread Mike

I've used Blues and Greens with absolutely no issues getting them on and 
off. I wouldn't get the Blues again, while offering good flat protection, 
they just seemed sluggish. I'd just ride Paselas over the Blues. But the 
Greens are a really nice tire and while they're more flat-prone, they're 
still great.

--mike 

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[RBW] Re: Jack Brown Sale

2013-01-11 Thread Joe K

Can anyone comment on whether Jack Browns would be a good idea on my
custom Riv?

When I made the frame order, one question asked what's the largest
tire that I'd use.  I wrote that I'd never be riding anything wider
than 28's.  That was my thinking at the time, so I figure the frame
was designed around that.  Now, I do believe there's enough room for
the 33's, but they would raise the BB a little.  I'm currently using
Rolly-Polys.  The rims are Open Pros, and pb above says they'll work.
So the question is not whether they'll fit but whether they'd change
the ride quality.

Joe

On Jan 11, 1:07 pm, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've used Blues and Greens with absolutely no issues getting them on and
 off. I wouldn't get the Blues again, while offering good flat protection,
 they just seemed sluggish. I'd just ride Paselas over the Blues. But the
 Greens are a really nice tire and while they're more flat-prone, they're
 still great.

 --mike

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[RBW] Re: Jack Brown Sale

I think it would be a great idea for you to try out the Jack Browns or 
maybe even the Grand Bois offering in 32mm.  Clearance around the brakes 
and through the chainstays are the critical places to check if they will 
fit.  In my opinion, you should not worry in the slightest about raising 
the BB height 4 or 5 mm.  

On Friday, January 11, 2013 10:35:48 AM UTC-8, Joe K wrote:

 Can anyone comment on whether Jack Browns would be a good idea on my 
 custom Riv? 

 When I made the frame order, one question asked what's the largest 
 tire that I'd use.  I wrote that I'd never be riding anything wider 
 than 28's.  That was my thinking at the time, so I figure the frame 
 was designed around that.  Now, I do believe there's enough room for 
 the 33's, but they would raise the BB a little.  I'm currently using 
 Rolly-Polys.  The rims are Open Pros, and pb above says they'll work. 
 So the question is not whether they'll fit but whether they'd change 
 the ride quality. 

 Joe 

 On Jan 11, 1:07 pm, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: 
  I've used Blues and Greens with absolutely no issues getting them on and 
  off. I wouldn't get the Blues again, while offering good flat 
 protection, 
  they just seemed sluggish. I'd just ride Paselas over the Blues. But the 
  Greens are a really nice tire and while they're more flat-prone, they're 
  still great. 
  
  --mike 


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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Appaloosa

2013-01-11 Thread Colin Bortner

I could have missed something, but I assumed Garth was referencing the
fact that at least some of the Mystery Bikes didn't have drilled
chainstay bridges. Ex. from Tom Allingham:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/8366365230/in/photostream

I'd expect the production models will be drilled.

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Matthew J matthewj...@gmail.com wrote:
 Is something missing from the conversation?  At least from the Flickr photo
 Appaloosa fenders appear to attach the same as fenders on any other Riv.

 Or are you making a point on GP's long stated preference for SKS plastic
 fenders as opposed to metal?

 On Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:19:56 PM UTC-6, Garth wrote:

 I kinda giggle with this frame  a high-ish end frame made so
 minimalist you gotta do mods to it just to add fenders  lol.



 99 bottles of beer on the wall  take one down and pass it around
    ;)  ;)

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[RBW] Re: Ride report: A week in northern Lao on my hillborne

2013-01-11 Thread dougP

Paul:

My pedal  shoe combo on my Thailand tour was some cheap Wellgo platform 
pedals and Teva sandals.  We had enough rain that we rode in mud a couple 
of times  never had a problem with foot slipping off the pedal.  Wearing 
walkable shoes also made the inevitable pushing up some hills (Doi Mae 
Salong comes to mind!) much less tortuous than cycling shoes.  

Nylon hiking or rock climbing shorts work well for cycling, as long as the 
seams are placed so you are not sitting on them.  In hot moist climates 
where things don't really air dry well, some sort of quick dry underwear is 
better than bike specific padding.  A good saddle is a big help to getting 
away from padded shorts.  

Silver tape like duct tape works in a pinch to replace or patch up rim 
strip.  I always carry some since it has a lot of uses.  

Hope to get back there one of these days.

dougP

On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:01:45 PM UTC-8, Paul Y wrote:

 A few post-ride thoughts: 

 Grant is truly wise!!!

 1. I would do it with platforms and regular shoes next time. Time ATAC's 
 and mtb shoes were too uncomfortable within a context of five straight 
 8-hour days, and you wouldn't need to schlepp an extra pair of footwear. 

 2. Would not use a chamois for touring again. They are too hard to dry, 
 and didn't make a big comfort difference. I tried riding with a speedo 
 under my shorts, in a chamois, and commando (nothing dried!!). 150 km 
 commando was ok! A chamois just made laundry harder. I actually dumped mine 
 on the trip.

 3. Would just take 2 pairs of traveller zip-off trousers next time, one 
 for riding, one for dinner. 

 4. Probably ride in a t-shirt or a long sleeved shirt (sun protection) 
 next time. The racing jersey did nothing to help. Last day in a t-shirt was 
 possibly even more comfortable. 

 5. My rim tape was broken and I didn't realize until 2 tubes later. (the 
 valve hole was exposed and cutting the valves...I just thought I had 
 defective tubes). About 50 km from the next village (don't think one would 
 find a 700c tube anywhere in Lao anyway), I managed to make a 26x1.95 tube 
 that Jeff was carrying work in my 700x45 wheel. It actually held up very, 
 very well. I also used a bit of broken tube (1 x 1) with a hole in the 
 center and put this around the new tube's valve to protect it. Scissors is 
 real important! Worked perfectly - learnt so much on this trip. 





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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Appaloosa

2013-01-11 Thread Matthew J

Thanks.  I did not see that.  Does not appear to be the case with the Riv 
bike in the Flickr and Instagram, so maybe Riv addressed it.
 
Seems Pudge made the most of it in any event.

On Friday, January 11, 2013 12:58:29 PM UTC-6, Colin B. wrote:

 I could have missed something, but I assumed Garth was referencing the 
 fact that at least some of the Mystery Bikes didn't have drilled 
 chainstay bridges. Ex. from Tom Allingham: 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/8366365230/in/photostream 

 I'd expect the production models will be drilled. 

 On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Matthew J matth...@gmail.comjavascript: 
 wrote: 
  Is something missing from the conversation?  At least from the Flickr 
 photo 
  Appaloosa fenders appear to attach the same as fenders on any other Riv. 
  
  Or are you making a point on GP's long stated preference for SKS plastic 
  fenders as opposed to metal? 
  
  On Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:19:56 PM UTC-6, Garth wrote: 
  
  I kinda giggle with this frame  a high-ish end frame made so 
  minimalist you gotta do mods to it just to add fenders  lol. 
  
  
  
  99 bottles of beer on the wall  take one down and pass it around 
     ;)  ;) 
  
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 Groups 
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[RBW] Re: Jack Brown Sale

2013-01-11 Thread pb

What brakes are you running?  If you're using short-reach sidepulls, the 
33's will probably hit the brakes.
 
~pb

On Friday, January 11, 2013 10:35:48 AM UTC-8, Joe K wrote:

 Can anyone comment on whether Jack Browns would be a good idea on my 
 custom Riv? 

 When I made the frame order, one question asked what's the largest 
 tire that I'd use.  I wrote that I'd never be riding anything wider 
 than 28's.  That was my thinking at the time, so I figure the frame 
 was designed around that.  Now, I do believe there's enough room for 
 the 33's, but they would raise the BB a little.  I'm currently using 
 Rolly-Polys.  The rims are Open Pros, and pb above says they'll work. 
 So the question is not whether they'll fit but whether they'd change 
 the ride quality. 

 Joe 

 On Jan 11, 1:07 pm, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: 
  I've used Blues and Greens with absolutely no issues getting them on and 
  off. I wouldn't get the Blues again, while offering good flat 
 protection, 
  they just seemed sluggish. I'd just ride Paselas over the Blues. But the 
  Greens are a really nice tire and while they're more flat-prone, they're 
  still great. 
  
  --mike 


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Re: [RBW] Re: Luxos B dynamo light user review

Nice, I'd be interested to hear how the USB charging and the turbo
mode work.  Maybe the turbo mode on Nick's 40 mph downhills would be
the ticket...

Toshi


On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 5:56 AM, Matthew J matthewj...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thank you for the review Toshi.  I am near the front of Peter's wait list
 for the Luxos U.  From what I read, delivery will be soon.


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[RBW] Re: Jack Brown Sale

2013-01-11 Thread Joe K

Should not be a problem because they are canti's.

Joe K

On Jan 11, 2:37 pm, pb pbridge...@aol.com wrote:
 What brakes are you running?  If you're using short-reach sidepulls, the
 33's will probably hit the brakes.

 ~pb



 On Friday, January 11, 2013 10:35:48 AM UTC-8, Joe K wrote:
  Can anyone comment on whether Jack Browns would be a good idea on my
  custom Riv?

  When I made the frame order, one question asked what's the largest
  tire that I'd use.  I wrote that I'd never be riding anything wider
  than 28's.  That was my thinking at the time, so I figure the frame
  was designed around that.  Now, I do believe there's enough room for
  the 33's, but they would raise the BB a little.  I'm currently using
  Rolly-Polys.  The rims are Open Pros, and pb above says they'll work.
  So the question is not whether they'll fit but whether they'd change
  the ride quality.

  Joe

  On Jan 11, 1:07 pm, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote:
   I've used Blues and Greens with absolutely no issues getting them on and
   off. I wouldn't get the Blues again, while offering good flat
  protection,
   they just seemed sluggish. I'd just ride Paselas over the Blues. But the
   Greens are a really nice tire and while they're more flat-prone, they're
   still great.

   --mike

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[RBW] Re: Jack Brown Sale

2013-01-11 Thread Mike

Joe, just go for it and give them a try. I'm sure you'll like them. You'll 
probably wonder why you waited so long.

--mike

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Re: [RBW] Do Pitlocks scratch paint on your seat tube collar?

2013-01-11 Thread Robert F. Harrison

The problem I have is my beater bike got a new drive train. Then new wheels
(one of which I built myself around a two speed kickback shift hub). Then
it got a new coat of paint and one of my older Brooks saddles. Ultimately
it's not exactly a beater anymore. Actually, since I've had the frame since
the early 90's I'd be loathe to part with.

Guess I need a new, old, beater. :-)


On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.comwrote:

 Not to be a fly in the ointment but this again makes me thankful I have a
 beater bike. I know there is a pride and joy from riding your well pride
 and joy everywhere but my 10 dollar yard sale folding bike is a beast for
 running around town and doesnt get a second look. When I lock it up with a
 simple u-lock its all right there where I left it, pleather seat and sissy
 bars still looking terrible, haha.

 On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Toshi Takeuchi tto...@gmail.com wrote:

 Ha!  Good point.  Just garbage bag your brooks and duct tape your
 Nitto lugged seatpost and all will be good ;).

 Toshi


 On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Andy Forquer forq...@gmail.com wrote:
  I think if you are paranoid about your saddle getting stolen by guys
  carrying hex wrenches, then you should recognize that they could just as
  easily disassemble the saddle from the post itself.  Given the relative
  value of the saddle, I just loop a piece of vinyl covered steel braided
  cable, crimp it at the hardware store, and leave my post to be stolen
 or not
  stolen.
 
  I also have some locking skewers --- so around Oakland and SF I only
 bring a
  mini u-lock to secure the frame.
 
  -Andy

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Honolulu, HI
rfharri...@gmail.com
statrix.com

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[RBW] Betty's turn...

2013-01-11 Thread René Sterental

Yesterday, I spent around 8 hours after I got home from work to get Betty
ready for full commute and regular use. Mind you, I had already managed to
install the rear 650b 50mm Berthoud steel fender, but the front one had me
completely stumped. Orders had been made and delivered, and while I now
have a set of 38mm Lierre tires, when I put the front one on the budget
dynamo wheel that I had purchased as a special from Riv sometime last year
(or maybe even longer), my first impression was that I didn't like the
skinny (compared to the Hetre) Lierre black/tan tire compared to the
red/tan Hetre. So, being determined to try to find a way to prevent the
rubbing of the Daruma bolt with the tire, while still having enough threads
to bolt it.

I hope you're sitting comfortably, here goes the long detailed version of
my adventure...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8371244004/in/set-72157625115263842/

- The first step was to remove the front Silver brake, which interferes
with the fender, especially when opening it to remove the wheel, with a
Paul Racer front brake. I already have these on the Hilsen and really like
them. Unfortunately, it's impossible to use one on the rear, so the rear
Silver stayed. Naturally, I took advantage of this operation to also remove
the Paul Thumbies I was using on the stem for the barend shifters and
replace them with the mount that Riv sells/sold for this purpose, which is
a lot more beautiful:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8370178221/in/set-72157625115263842/.
I first wanted to replace the shifters with a set of DuraAce downtube
shifters, but there isn't enough room with the Bullmoose Bosco bar for
those and I had to go back to the barend shifters.
- Next was dealing with the Daruma bolt, and since I wanted to use the
fender wedge that Boulder bycicle sells in two thicknesses, I had to grind
down and flaten the rear of the holed portion of the daruma since to allow
it to be centered enough so the fender wedge could sit inside the bottom of
the fork crown. Otherwise, the recessed center mount pushes it too far
forward:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8371814700/in/set-72157625115263842/
- After hours of frustration during the Christmas break without having been
able to figure out how to improve the clearance between the tire and the
daruma bolt, last night I had the epifany of widening the hole on the
fender so a short center mount brake recessed nut/mount could screw into
the daruma bolt while leaving a very thin lip to hold the fender tight
against the rubber spacer and the fender wedge:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8370748261/in/set-72157625115263842/
(you
can see other images of the fender wedge and parts on the set.
- I thought I had it all nailed down, but discovered that the recessed
mount would screw all the way into the daruma without tightening the
fender, in fact, at first it still rubbed and it took me a while to realize
what was happening. I proceeded to grind the recessed mount and the daruma
screw, making it too short once and then finally getting it to work almost
perfectly. There is still a little gap between the lip of the recessed
mount and the fender which allows it to vibrate if you knock on it, but
with the front screwed to the rack and the rear stays, the fender is super
solid. There is no rubbing at all, so I may try putting a spacer or
something to get it to fit tighter so it doesn't buzz when knocking on the
frame:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8371247196/in/set-72157625115263842/
- The width between the 50mm Berthoud fender and the 42mm Hetre seems to be
a bit close, for some reason more so on the front than on the rear.
Mounting the rear was a breeze. Still, there is no rubbing and today Betty
went on her first ever work commute with me.

The ride this morning was absolutely fantastic. I don't know what it is,
but the Betty with the Hetres seems to roll so effortlessly compared to my
other Rivs on Marathon Dureme or Supreme tires that it feels like I'm ice
skating. The wheels are budget, so it must be the Hetres alone, or the
combination of Hetre and 650b wheelset. This is my only 650b bike. I did
get a set of 32mm Extra Leger tires to put on the Hilsen, so when I do I'll
be able to tell the difference that those tires make compared to the 35mm
Marathon Supremes I currently have there.

The fenders behaved perfectly, although I managed to catch the wider stem
of a dry leaf when I rode through a patch that was filled with a thick
cushion of dry leaves. It didn't catch, it just stayed there rubbing
between the fender, and the fender stay.

The Bullmoose Bosco bars seemed to fit the Betty better than they fit my
Hunqapillar. The Betty was an absolute pleasure to ride with the regular
Bullmoose bars, but the Bosco gives it even more versatility, I think. They
should fit my daughters better as well, if they ever decide to come on a
ride with me.

Last, I mounted the Nitto rear rack and decided to try out a set of

Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis commute...

2013-01-11 Thread René Sterental

Thank you for all the great comments!

I feel priviledged to live in the SF Bay Area and hope to get fit enough at
some point soon to start doing some rides with Manny and others. While my
limited experience on group rides has been great so far, it sucks when you
are pushing your bike up a climb that everyone else can ride. There are
also some mental and spousal blocks I need to deal with to increase the
number of S24O adventures I do. I'm working on all of these.

Regarding bringing my beautiful bikes on Caltrain, I'm very lucky (so far)
in that I'm able to take mostly Express (Baby Bullet) or Limited stops
trains on my commute between Palo Alto and San Jose where 99% of the time,
my bike will be by itself on a rack. On the few instances when a lot of
cyclists board the train before I get off (usually Mtn. View in the evening
when it happens), I just grab my bike and hold on to it since I'm getting
off on the following station and that way, everyone can pile their bikes to
the racks without damaging mine. When I get off in Palo Alto in the
evening, a long line of cyclists is waiting to board. I'm just lucky!

This is also why I like the Platrack and rear R-14 or Nitto rear; they also
provide a degree of protection if I cannot avoid having someone lean their
bike next to mine. Usually, however, my experience has been that barring an
overcrowded bike car when everyone is afraid of getting dumped and the car
is at maximum capacity (80 bikes), most people are careful to try to avoid
leaning their bikes incorrectly and prevent their pedals from scratching
another bike. Not always, so I try and have managed to reduce these
instances to a really tiny occurence. At some point some other bike is
going to scratch mine, but then again, I've scratched my bikes by dropping
a tool, or something like that in the past. I still prefer to ride my nice
bikes all the time and haven't found a crappy one that fits well or I like
enough.

The Iris King cages are just beautiful and perfect for the KK bottles.
Additionally, you can squeeze them together if you want them to hold the
bottle tighter, although they hold it tight enough. They're also made of
steel. Best cages in my opinion!

Thanks again!

René


On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.comwrote:

 I saw Lovely Bicycle do a wrap job with twine and shellc on Klean
 Kanteens. Looked the business. Not sure how it would hold up to constant
 sweating from cold bottles in the summer but I guess not a biggie to re-do
 once a season.

 On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Peter F phfmu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Quick tip...if your Klean Kanteens rattle in your bottle holders, wrap
 the bottles with cloth handlebar tape. Lots of colors to choose from; they
 look classy; and rattling is a thing of the past. If you're really feeling
 crafty, you can shellac them as well, but that's overkill for me. When the
 tape looks too worn or starts to peel off, I just rewrap with a new color.

 Peter
 NYC


 On Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:40:18 PM UTC-5, Statrixbob wrote:

  I love it. But I also have a question. Do those bottle cages do a good
 job with the Klean Kanteens? I have a set of the bottles I almost never use
 because of the rattling around. On long rides I do use them but cover them
 in a sock which I wet down for that 'swamp cooler' effect.

 Aloha,

 Bob

 --
 Robert Harrison
 Honolulu, HI
 statrix.com

 On Thursday, January 10, 2013 at 2:35 PM, René Sterental wrote:

 Sorry! It should be public now...



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To

[RBW] Re: Betty's turn...

Excellent work, Rene.  The Betty is a 58, right?  So the end result was 
that you succeeded...full fenders and Hetres on a Betty Foy?  That's hot!

On Friday, January 11, 2013 3:23:13 PM UTC-8, René wrote:

 Yesterday, I spent around 8 hours after I got home from work to get Betty 
 ready for full commute and regular use. Mind you, I had already managed to 
 install the rear 650b 50mm Berthoud steel fender, but the front one had me 
 completely stumped. Orders had been made and delivered, and while I now 
 have a set of 38mm Lierre tires, when I put the front one on the budget 
 dynamo wheel that I had purchased as a special from Riv sometime last year 
 (or maybe even longer), my first impression was that I didn't like the 
 skinny (compared to the Hetre) Lierre black/tan tire compared to the 
 red/tan Hetre. So, being determined to try to find a way to prevent the 
 rubbing of the Daruma bolt with the tire, while still having enough threads 
 to bolt it.
  
 I hope you're sitting comfortably, here goes the long detailed version of 
 my adventure... 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8371244004/in/set-72157625115263842/
  
 - The first step was to remove the front Silver brake, which interferes 
 with the fender, especially when opening it to remove the wheel, with a 
 Paul Racer front brake. I already have these on the Hilsen and really like 
 them. Unfortunately, it's impossible to use one on the rear, so the rear 
 Silver stayed. Naturally, I took advantage of this operation to also remove 
 the Paul Thumbies I was using on the stem for the barend shifters and 
 replace them with the mount that Riv sells/sold for this purpose, which is 
 a lot more beautiful: 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8370178221/in/set-72157625115263842/. 
 I first wanted to replace the shifters with a set of DuraAce downtube 
 shifters, but there isn't enough room with the Bullmoose Bosco bar for 
 those and I had to go back to the barend shifters.
 - Next was dealing with the Daruma bolt, and since I wanted to use the 
 fender wedge that Boulder bycicle sells in two thicknesses, I had to grind 
 down and flaten the rear of the holed portion of the daruma since to allow 
 it to be centered enough so the fender wedge could sit inside the bottom of 
 the fork crown. Otherwise, the recessed center mount pushes it too far 
 forward: 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8371814700/in/set-72157625115263842/
 - After hours of frustration during the Christmas break without having 
 been able to figure out how to improve the clearance between the tire and 
 the daruma bolt, last night I had the epifany of widening the hole on the 
 fender so a short center mount brake recessed nut/mount could screw into 
 the daruma bolt while leaving a very thin lip to hold the fender tight 
 against the rubber spacer and the fender wedge: 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8370748261/in/set-72157625115263842/ 
 (you 
 can see other images of the fender wedge and parts on the set.
 - I thought I had it all nailed down, but discovered that the recessed 
 mount would screw all the way into the daruma without tightening the 
 fender, in fact, at first it still rubbed and it took me a while to realize 
 what was happening. I proceeded to grind the recessed mount and the daruma 
 screw, making it too short once and then finally getting it to work almost 
 perfectly. There is still a little gap between the lip of the recessed 
 mount and the fender which allows it to vibrate if you knock on it, but 
 with the front screwed to the rack and the rear stays, the fender is super 
 solid. There is no rubbing at all, so I may try putting a spacer or 
 something to get it to fit tighter so it doesn't buzz when knocking on the 
 frame: 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8371247196/in/set-72157625115263842/
 - The width between the 50mm Berthoud fender and the 42mm Hetre seems to 
 be a bit close, for some reason more so on the front than on the rear. 
 Mounting the rear was a breeze. Still, there is no rubbing and today Betty 
 went on her first ever work commute with me.
  
 The ride this morning was absolutely fantastic. I don't know what it is, 
 but the Betty with the Hetres seems to roll so effortlessly compared to my 
 other Rivs on Marathon Dureme or Supreme tires that it feels like I'm ice 
 skating. The wheels are budget, so it must be the Hetres alone, or the 
 combination of Hetre and 650b wheelset. This is my only 650b bike. I did 
 get a set of 32mm Extra Leger tires to put on the Hilsen, so when I do I'll 
 be able to tell the difference that those tires make compared to the 35mm 
 Marathon Supremes I currently have there.
  
 The fenders behaved perfectly, although I managed to catch the wider stem 
 of a dry leaf when I rode through a patch that was filled with a thick 
 cushion of dry leaves. It didn't catch, it just stayed there rubbing 
 between the fender, and the fender stay.
  
 The Bullmoose Bosco bars seemed to

Re: [RBW] Re: Betty's turn...

2013-01-11 Thread Robert F. Harrison

That's just a great bike! Good job. I'm looking forward to hearing how the
Edelux and budget dynamo work. I keep threatening to something like that
for one of my bikes.

Aloha,

Bob

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 1:49 PM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:

Excellent work, Rene. The Betty is a 58, right? So the end result was
that you succeeded...full fenders and Hetres on a Betty Foy? That's hot!

On Friday, January 11, 2013 3:23:13 PM UTC-8, René wrote:

Yesterday, I spent around 8 hours after I got home from work to get Betty
ready for full commute and regular use. Mind you, I had already managed to
install the rear 650b 50mm Berthoud steel fender, but the front one had me
completely stumped. Orders had been made and delivered, and while I now
have a set of 38mm Lierre tires, when I put the front one on the budget
dynamo wheel that I had purchased as a special from Riv sometime last year
(or maybe even longer), my first impression was that I didn't like the
skinny (compared to the Hetre) Lierre black/tan tire compared to the
red/tan Hetre. So, being determined to try to find a way to prevent the
rubbing of the Daruma bolt with the tire, while still having enough threads
to bolt it.

I hope you're sitting comfortably, here goes the long detailed version of
my adventure... http://www.flickr.com/photos/**
orthie251/8371244004/in/set-**72157625115263842/http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8371244004/in/set-72157625115263842/

- The first step was to remove the front Silver brake, which interferes
with the fender, especially when opening it to remove the wheel, with a
Paul Racer front brake. I already have these on the Hilsen and really like
them. Unfortunately, it's impossible to use one on the rear, so the rear
Silver stayed. Naturally, I took advantage of this operation to also remove
the Paul Thumbies I was using on the stem for the barend shifters and
replace them with the mount that Riv sells/sold for this purpose, which is
a lot more beautiful: http://www.flickr.com/photos/**
orthie251/8370178221/in/set-**72157625115263842/http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8370178221/in/set-72157625115263842/.
I first wanted to replace the shifters with a set of DuraAce downtube
shifters, but there isn't enough room with the Bullmoose Bosco bar for
those and I had to go back to the barend shifters.
- Next was dealing with the Daruma bolt, and since I wanted to use the
fender wedge that Boulder bycicle sells in two thicknesses, I had to grind
down and flaten the rear of the holed portion of the daruma since to allow
it to be centered enough so the fender wedge could sit inside the bottom of
the fork crown. Otherwise, the recessed center mount pushes it too far
forward: http://www.flickr.com/photos/**orthie251/8371814700/in/set-**
72157625115263842/http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8371814700/in/set-72157625115263842/
- After hours of frustration during the Christmas break without having
been able to figure out how to improve the clearance between the tire and
the daruma bolt, last night I had the epifany of widening the hole on the
fender so a short center mount brake recessed nut/mount could screw into
the daruma bolt while leaving a very thin lip to hold the fender tight
against the rubber spacer and the fender wedge:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/**orthie251/8370748261/in/set-**
72157625115263842/http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8370748261/in/set-72157625115263842/
(you
can see other images of the fender wedge and parts on the set.
- I thought I had it all nailed down, but discovered that the recessed
mount would screw all the way into the daruma without tightening the
fender, in fact, at first it still rubbed and it took me a while to realize
what was happening. I proceeded to grind the recessed mount and the daruma
screw, making it too short once and then finally getting it to work almost
perfectly. There is still a little gap between the lip of the recessed
mount and the fender which allows it to vibrate if you knock on it, but
with the front screwed to the rack and the rear stays, the fender is super
solid. There is no rubbing at all, so I may try putting a spacer or
something to get it to fit tighter so it doesn't buzz when knocking on the
frame: http://www.flickr.com/photos/**orthie251/8371247196/in/set-**
72157625115263842/http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8371247196/in/set-72157625115263842/
- The width between the 50mm Berthoud fender and the 42mm Hetre seems to
be a bit close, for some reason more so on the front than on the rear.
Mounting the rear was a breeze. Still, there is no rubbing and today Betty
went on her first ever work commute with me.

The ride this morning was absolutely fantastic. I don't know what it is,
but the Betty with the Hetres seems to roll so effortlessly compared to my
other Rivs on Marathon Dureme or Supreme tires that it feels like I'm ice
skating. The wheels are budget, so it must be the

[RBW] Re: Plastic Fenders and Hetres



 toshi:
 are those P45 longboards?


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[RBW] My Rumpkins ok?

Had a flat, and before remounting the Rumpkin, I saw some rubber was 
peeling off of the bottom of the bead. About a 2 inch long piece.
Bead is ok, just the rubber from the inside edge of the tire peeled off.
Is this still safe to ride on?
 
 

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[RBW] Re: My Rumpkins ok?

Yes it is safe.  That's just the extra rubber that glooges out of the mold 
when they make them.  Glooge is a technical term.  

On Friday, January 11, 2013 4:01:33 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:

 Had a flat, and before remounting the Rumpkin, I saw some rubber was 
 peeling off of the bottom of the bead. About a 2 inch long piece.
 Bead is ok, just the rubber from the inside edge of the tire peeled off.
 Is this still safe to ride on?
  
  


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[RBW] Re: My Rumpkins ok?



 Good to hear, because I don't have a spare. Hopefully a Marathon will be 
 arriving in the mail soon, followed by Hetres later this month (I hope).


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[RBW] Re: Betty's turn...

2013-01-11 Thread Benz, Sunnyvale, CA

René, a little late for you perhaps, but when I installed aluminum fenders 
on my Atlantis, there was so much space between a properly positioned 
fender and the fork crown/stay bridges that it was impossible to span using 
a normal daruma bolt. What saved me was Mcmaster-Carr. Witness:

   - The Daruma substitute: 
   http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/1197/=kzv9l0
   - The stay bridge extenders: 
   http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/3266/=kzvav5

These come in different lengths and I measured how much extension I needed 
before ordering. It turned out that I needed 25mm's worth of extension to 
work with 44mm tires with fenders, even with thick leather fender washers! 
See attached pic. The Atlantis really has room to spare for fat, fat tires! 
:)





On Friday, January 11, 2013 3:23:13 PM UTC-8, René wrote:

 Yesterday, I spent around 8 hours after I got home from work to get Betty 
 ready for full commute and regular use. Mind you, I had already managed to 
 install the rear 650b 50mm Berthoud steel fender, but the front one had me 
 completely stumped. Orders had been made and delivered, and while I now 
 have a set of 38mm Lierre tires, when I put the front one on the budget 
 dynamo wheel that I had purchased as a special from Riv sometime last year 
 (or maybe even longer), my first impression was that I didn't like the 
 skinny (compared to the Hetre) Lierre black/tan tire compared to the 
 red/tan Hetre. So, being determined to try to find a way to prevent the 
 rubbing of the Daruma bolt with the tire, while still having enough threads 
 to bolt it.
  
 I hope you're sitting comfortably, here goes the long detailed version of 
 my adventure... 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8371244004/in/set-72157625115263842/
  
 - The first step was to remove the front Silver brake, which interferes 
 with the fender, especially when opening it to remove the wheel, with a 
 Paul Racer front brake. I already have these on the Hilsen and really like 
 them. Unfortunately, it's impossible to use one on the rear, so the rear 
 Silver stayed. Naturally, I took advantage of this operation to also remove 
 the Paul Thumbies I was using on the stem for the barend shifters and 
 replace them with the mount that Riv sells/sold for this purpose, which is 
 a lot more beautiful: 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8370178221/in/set-72157625115263842/. 
 I first wanted to replace the shifters with a set of DuraAce downtube 
 shifters, but there isn't enough room with the Bullmoose Bosco bar for 
 those and I had to go back to the barend shifters.
 - Next was dealing with the Daruma bolt, and since I wanted to use the 
 fender wedge that Boulder bycicle sells in two thicknesses, I had to grind 
 down and flaten the rear of the holed portion of the daruma since to allow 
 it to be centered enough so the fender wedge could sit inside the bottom of 
 the fork crown. Otherwise, the recessed center mount pushes it too far 
 forward: 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8371814700/in/set-72157625115263842/
 - After hours of frustration during the Christmas break without having 
 been able to figure out how to improve the clearance between the tire and 
 the daruma bolt, last night I had the epifany of widening the hole on the 
 fender so a short center mount brake recessed nut/mount could screw into 
 the daruma bolt while leaving a very thin lip to hold the fender tight 
 against the rubber spacer and the fender wedge: 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8370748261/in/set-72157625115263842/ 
 (you 
 can see other images of the fender wedge and parts on the set.
 - I thought I had it all nailed down, but discovered that the recessed 
 mount would screw all the way into the daruma without tightening the 
 fender, in fact, at first it still rubbed and it took me a while to realize 
 what was happening. I proceeded to grind the recessed mount and the daruma 
 screw, making it too short once and then finally getting it to work almost 
 perfectly. There is still a little gap between the lip of the recessed 
 mount and the fender which allows it to vibrate if you knock on it, but 
 with the front screwed to the rack and the rear stays, the fender is super 
 solid. There is no rubbing at all, so I may try putting a spacer or 
 something to get it to fit tighter so it doesn't buzz when knocking on the 
 frame: 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/8371247196/in/set-72157625115263842/
 - The width between the 50mm Berthoud fender and the 42mm Hetre seems to 
 be a bit close, for some reason more so on the front than on the rear. 
 Mounting the rear was a breeze. Still, there is no rubbing and today Betty 
 went on her first ever work commute with me.
  
 The ride this morning was absolutely fantastic. I don't know what it is, 
 but the Betty with the Hetres seems to roll so effortlessly compared to my 
 other Rivs on Marathon Dureme or Supreme tires that it feels like I'm ice 
 skating. The wheels are

[RBW] Re: Bay Area bike tour write-up and photos

2013-01-11 Thread Amit Singh

Jim,

Great meeting you and eating beef together!  :)

We'll need to get together in your part of the world this summer.  Thanks 
for posting photos and writing such a great ride report!

Amit

On Sunday, 6 January 2013 20:44:40 UTC-5, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
wrote:

 Part 1


 http://hiawathacyclery.blogspot.com/2013/01/san-francisco-area-bike-adventure.html?m=1


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Re: [RBW] Re: Harlequin How-To

2013-01-11 Thread Alex Moll

If it's in the afternoon, I can make it.
Alex


On Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:37:42 PM UTC-8, stonehog wrote:

 How does the last weekend look for folks?  It would probably be Sunday the 
 27th?

 Brian Hanson

 On Dec 30, 2012, at 12:45 PM, Rob robh...@gmail.com javascript: wrote:

 Excellent! Guess I better get the garage cleaned up! :) 

 I'm going to bail on my downtube shifter experiment, and the shellac over 
 cork hasn't held up, so I'm ready for a change and I've been wanting to try 
 a harlequin wrap since I saw Brian's beautiful bike two years ago. I've got 
 cloth tape, and lots of amber shellac at the ready! (Seriously, I have 
 shellac to share with anyone who wants some--I'll send y'all home with a 
 jar full!) 

 Pick a time Brian. I'm available pretty much any weekend day in January I 
 believe.

 Rob in Seattle



 On Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:20:47 PM UTC-8, Alex Moll wrote:

 Great idea - I wouldn't miss that.


 On Saturday, December 29, 2012 3:47:35 PM UTC-8, stonehog wrote:

 I'm in :)

 Brian
 Seattle, WA


 On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Rob robh...@gmail.com wrote:

 A few times with motorcycle stuff (back when I rode) we'd have 
 get-togethers to do some specific thing that someone knew how to do, like 
 adjust the valves on an airhead BMW, or install an accessory power socket. 
 Everyone would bring their bikes and work on them together. We should do 
 that with harlequin wraps! I'll volunteer my garage if Brian will 
 demonstrate the mysterious technique. :)

 Rob in Seattle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Plastic Fenders and Hetres

Yes, P45 Longboards from Riv on my 650b Ram.

Toshi


On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Michael john11.2...@gmail.com wrote:
 toshi:

 are those P45 longboards?

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: 61cm AHH F/F/HS and 63cm Backroads Chimayo

2013-01-11 Thread Michael Williams

Hey Michael,  so the first potential buyer didnt go for it because the
frame is a tad too big for him,   so its yours if youre still interested.
-Mike

On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Michael Hechmer mhech...@gmail.com wrote:


 I am interested and would really like to see pictures.  Don't give up on
 Picassa, but send me some pics.   I'm not in theBay area but we can work
 that out.

 Michael



 On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 1:13:17 PM UTC-5, Michael Williams wrote:

 Hey Group,   Up for sale is a used 61cm AHH F/F/HS/BB.   Its Toyo built,
 if that means anything.  Repainted Butterscotch.  Its 'creamier' in life
 than in the photos.   definitely used, never abused.   It has some paint
 chips here an there that i covered with nail polish.   Some chainsuck chips
 and a little wear on the inside left chainstay from tire rub I guess.   I
 sometimes squeezed 42s,  so that is my only guess. There is also some
 shellac residue on the headtube and a little on the DT and TT.   Headset is
 FSA   fairly new,  oldish BB but still is smooth.Asking $1100+
 shipping.Would like to sell in the Bay Area if possible.   Also have a
 63cm backroads Chimayo.  All Tange Tubing.   replaced the fork with a new
 one.  I still have the old one,   but the newer allowed way better
 clearance.   Rides really great  Same deal.  F/F/HS/BB   asking $300  I
 have photos,   just cant figure out how to copy and paste a link to a
 Picasa album.  Im a lil slow there.   -Mike

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[RBW] Bleriot Price Check

2013-01-11 Thread Johnny Alien

I may need to sell my 53cm Bleriot.  What has been the going rate? I am not 
sure what to ask for it. It would be complete with standard mid-level Riv 
parts. I can list out what it has if that is helpful or if someone is 
interested in it.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis commute...

2013-01-11 Thread Stephen S

The pic was great. 

I enjoyed the s24o we did in 2011 with everyone. I'd love to get our and do 
another one with you if you can get through some of those blocks. =)

Stephen

On Friday, January 11, 2013 3:36:58 PM UTC-8, René wrote:

 Thank you for all the great comments!
  
 I feel priviledged to live in the SF Bay Area and hope to get fit enough 
 at some point soon to start doing some rides with Manny and others. While 
 my limited experience on group rides has been great so far, it sucks when 
 you are pushing your bike up a climb that everyone else can ride. There are 
 also some mental and spousal blocks I need to deal with to increase the 
 number of S24O adventures I do. I'm working on all of these.
  
 Regarding bringing my beautiful bikes on Caltrain, I'm very lucky (so far) 
 in that I'm able to take mostly Express (Baby Bullet) or Limited stops 
 trains on my commute between Palo Alto and San Jose where 99% of the time, 
 my bike will be by itself on a rack. On the few instances when a lot of 
 cyclists board the train before I get off (usually Mtn. View in the evening 
 when it happens), I just grab my bike and hold on to it since I'm getting 
 off on the following station and that way, everyone can pile their bikes to 
 the racks without damaging mine. When I get off in Palo Alto in the 
 evening, a long line of cyclists is waiting to board. I'm just lucky!
  
 This is also why I like the Platrack and rear R-14 or Nitto rear; they 
 also provide a degree of protection if I cannot avoid having someone lean 
 their bike next to mine. Usually, however, my experience has been that 
 barring an overcrowded bike car when everyone is afraid of getting dumped 
 and the car is at maximum capacity (80 bikes), most people are careful to 
 try to avoid leaning their bikes incorrectly and prevent their pedals from 
 scratching another bike. Not always, so I try and have managed to reduce 
 these instances to a really tiny occurence. At some point some other bike 
 is going to scratch mine, but then again, I've scratched my bikes by 
 dropping a tool, or something like that in the past. I still prefer to ride 
 my nice bikes all the time and haven't found a crappy one that fits well or 
 I like enough.
  
 The Iris King cages are just beautiful and perfect for the KK bottles. 
 Additionally, you can squeeze them together if you want them to hold the 
 bottle tighter, although they hold it tight enough. They're also made of 
 steel. Best cages in my opinion!
  
 Thanks again!
  
 René


 On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Peter Morgano 
 uscpet...@gmail.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 I saw Lovely Bicycle do a wrap job with twine and shellc on Klean 
 Kanteens. Looked the business. Not sure how it would hold up to constant 
 sweating from cold bottles in the summer but I guess not a biggie to re-do 
 once a season. 
  
 On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Peter F phfm...@gmail.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 Quick tip...if your Klean Kanteens rattle in your bottle holders, wrap 
 the bottles with cloth handlebar tape. Lots of colors to choose from; they 
 look classy; and rattling is a thing of the past. If you're really feeling 
 crafty, you can shellac them as well, but that's overkill for me. When the 
 tape looks too worn or starts to peel off, I just rewrap with a new color.

 Peter
 NYC 


 On Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:40:18 PM UTC-5, Statrixbob wrote:

  I love it. But I also have a question. Do those bottle cages do a 
 good job with the Klean Kanteens? I have a set of the bottles I almost 
 never use because of the rattling around. On long rides I do use them but 
 cover them in a sock which I wet down for that 'swamp cooler' effect.

 Aloha,

 Bob

 -- 
 Robert Harrison
 Honolulu, HI
 statrix.com

 On Thursday, January 10, 2013 at 2:35 PM, René Sterental wrote:

 Sorry! It should be public now...



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[RBW] Re: Bleriot Price Check



 That would be helpful because parts make a diff.
  

I have seen complete Bleriots for between $850 USA and 1500$ USA online 
over the past 6 months in various builds. 

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[RBW] Re: Bleriot Price Check