[RBW] Re: Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Jim A]

Speaking of rebranding:

I have handled slick 650b Gravel King tires that have "PACENTI" molded into 
the sidewall, so maybe Panaracer is reusing the mold of a 
Pacenti-commisioned tire? It could be a different compound/material though.

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[RBW] Re: Huge Rosco Mixte

[Joe Bernard]

Y'all non-huge types check the Specials at Rivbike. There's a 54-60 
step-through with lifty bar there. 

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Eric Norris]

My riding took a leap forward a few years ago when I finally broke down and 
started buying expensive tires. They do make a difference, and they are worth 
the money.

I currently ride Grand Bois and Compass tires almost exclusively. The major 
exception is a 650B-equipped Rivendell that currently has Gravel Kings, which 
are are the last “cheap” tires I still use.

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy


> On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:47 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> Lee Legrand very concisely asked: "Huh?" in response to my sarcastic request 
> for the best tires in the world to be cheap.  It was a sarcastic comment.  
> Many many people have learned that better tires are better.  Many people 
> believe that Compass tires are the best in the world for their given size.  
> Many of those people also complain that Compass tires are expensive.  Some 
> ask participants of the Rivendell Bicycle Works Owners Bunch Google Group to 
> explain and justify the pricing of Compass Bicycles Ltd.  I think that state 
> of affairs is amusing on many levels and my sarcastic post was an attempt to 
> add more amusement to the comedy.
> 
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> 
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 6:16:47 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop 
> and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to 
> me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
> 
> Huh?
> 
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Bill Lindsay > wrote:
> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop 
> and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to 
> me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
> 
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[RBW] Re: FS: various perennially popular components...

[Corwin]

What about the pump?

CZ

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 1:11:33 PM UTC-7, jbu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Gang, 
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/joe_bunik/sets/72157687093735244 
>
> I've got a fresh batch of extra items to move forward - please feel 
> free ask any questions or to make offers. I will include free CONUS 
> shipping for any combination of n>1 items. 
>
> STEM: 95mm Suntour ARX, $30. 
> Nice and slightly obscure, high-polish finish in nice condition, 25.4 
> clamp. 
>
> CRANKS: 170mm Sugino AT, $60 
> Silk finish in very good condition, includes 50/40/28 rings and Sugino 
> Autex self-extracting crank bolts. 
>
> FRONT DER: Dura Ace EX, $35 
> Very clean, classic flat-plate FD. 
>
> BARS: 42cm Nitto B135 Randonneur, $25 
> Some zig-zags from stem fitting, including a minor marring of the 
> sleeve, 25.4 clamp. 
>
> RACK: Velo-Orange Randonneur (canti front, with decalaur), $75 
> Nice rack, very good condition. Pro tip: these racks are GREAT for 
> making a removable Wald basket setup. 
>
> PEDALS: Dura Ace PD-7810, $40 
> Great shape and many many more miles of riding. 
>
> --- 
>
> Send a signal, 
> =- Joe Bunik 
> Walnut Creek, CA 
>

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Mattt]

Bill said he is not doing a bike ranking, which I understand.  You don't want 
the other children to know the favorite.

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Bill Lindsay]

Lee Legrand very concisely asked: "Huh?" in response to my sarcastic 
request for the best tires in the world to be cheap.  It was a sarcastic 
comment.  Many many people have learned that better tires are better.  Many 
people believe that Compass tires are the best in the world for their given 
size.  Many of those people also complain that Compass tires are 
expensive.  Some ask participants of the Rivendell Bicycle Works Owners 
Bunch Google Group to explain and justify the pricing of Compass Bicycles 
Ltd.  I think that state of affairs is amusing on many levels and my 
sarcastic post was an attempt to add more amusement to the comedy.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 6:16:47 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop 
> and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to 
> me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
>
> Huh?
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Bill Lindsay  > wrote:
>
>> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to 
>> develop and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell 
>> them to me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
>>
>> --
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Bill Lindsay]

Tony asked which bike I would try to take on PBP if it were next week.  
I'll answer that a little bit obliquely by saying that I'm planning on 
doing the traditional San Francisco Randonneurs 2018 SR Series on my Samuel 
Hillborne.  So, if PBP was next week, I suppose I would do PBP on my Sam 
Hillborne.  Whether I can complete an SR Series in 2018 is unknown to me, 
and if I can, I expect to become a lot smarter about what bike I should use 
for a 1200k.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 8:22:06 PM UTC-7, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> Congrats Bill and thanks so much for taking us along with you on your 
> experience.  Building up for a SR and potential PBP is a heck of a goal and 
> after this kind of kickstart I'm sure you'll be able to do it!
>
> Which bike would gain your nod for PBP if you were riding in it next 
> week...?!? ;). - sorry I had to being it back to gear!
>
>

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Tony DeFilippo]

Congrats Bill and thanks so much for taking us along with you on your 
experience.  Building up for a SR and potential PBP is a heck of a goal and 
after this kind of kickstart I'm sure you'll be able to do it!

Which bike would gain your nod for PBP if you were riding in it next week...?!? 
;). - sorry I had to being it back to gear!

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[lum gim fong]

I thought maybe they had an agreement that panaracer could make their own 
version even though compass designed it. Because the gravel king looked 
identical to me. But turns out they are not the same tire anyway so it's a moot 
question.

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[lum gim fong]

Turns out they're not the same as the gravel kings.

I love the compass tires but now they're up to 64 bucks. It was good to have 
the price break that compass gave over the last couple years when the yen went 
down. That was nice of them.

I think they were 57$ when I bought my last ones. So not a big bump up in price 
recently but as it approaches 70$ its harder to get my head around paying that 
much for a bike tire. but that is my problem I guess.

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Not exactly almost. But here you go:

*For the Compass Extralight models, Panaracer uses a casing usually 
reserved for their top-end racing tubulars. Panaracer doesn’t use this 
casing on their own clinchers. The company feels that their tires may end 
up with inexperienced customers, who may need sturdier tires.*

I would guess the Panaracer Gravel tires are probably pretty close to the 
Compass standard casing tires. And priced within $10 of those, give or take.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/panaracer-hand-made-tires/

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 8:23:08 PM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
>  Compass tires, if I remember correctly, are made almost by hand which is 
> why the cost is the way it is. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Steve Palincsar]

I'm pretty sure Compass owns the mold.


On 10/04/2017 09:41 PM, lum gim fong wrote:

I did not mean that compass was re-branding tires.  That's not what I was 
talking about.  I know the history of those compass tires.  Pana racer made 
them for compass. So I thought maybe panaracer had rights  since they have the 
mold and equipment to make them and was making their own and that they were 
changing the name and selling them under another name.



--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[lum gim fong]

I did not mean that compass was re-branding tires.  That's not what I was 
talking about.  I know the history of those compass tires.  Pana racer made 
them for compass. So I thought maybe panaracer had rights  since they have the 
mold and equipment to make them and was making their own and that they were 
changing the name and selling them under another name.

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Lee Legrand]

I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop
and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to
me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!

Huh?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop
> and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to
> me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Bill Lindsay]

I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop and 
manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to me for 
really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!

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[RBW] Re: FS-Joe Appaloosa

[Gossamer]

Nobody wants a 58 Joe? On to eBay...


On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 3:58:06 PM UTC-5, Rusty Click wrote:
>
> That is a great looking bike and very tempting.  Being 6'1" and 91.5 pbh, 
> it may just be a great fit.  I've gotta think about it a bit more...hmmm.
>
> I'll PM you if I fall off the fence.
>
> On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 10:16:53 PM UTC-5, Gossamer wrote:
>>
>> As close to new 58 Appaloosa in blue.
>>
>> Buil kit from Riv that included Nitto Choco Moose bars and added a read 
>> Pletscher Rack with pannier rails, front Mark's rack and Sackville small 
>> trunk (gray), kickstand. Currently has a Soma drop bar on it with Dura Ace 
>> shifters. Already newbaumed chain stay, both sets of bars and put on a 
>> great bell.
>>
>> Bike has fewer than 100 miles on it. It's closer to new than a demo could 
>> be...it's sadly too big despite following the fit guide.
>>
>> I'd be happy to discuss further if someone would like. I'd like to get 
>> $2100 for it since I have more than $2600 into it. It will be 
>> professionally shipped and you'll get both bars and all mentioned above. 
>> Only thing I would keep are the saddle and the pedals.
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Reed Kennedy]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Lee Legrand  wrote:

> Compass tires, if I remember correctly, are made almost by hand which is
> why the cost is the way it is.
>

I suspect you're on to something there. I've always thought it was sorta
funny that so many people assume Compass marks up their tires a ton and
makes a killing on them.

I mean, maybe they do? I have no inside information. But I've always gotten
the impression that Jan is at least as interested in getting more people on
bikes (and tires) that they like as he is in making a quick buck.


Best,
Reed


> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 8:00 PM, panog  wrote:
>
>> The Soma Vitesse are awfully close to my estimation and at $35 a pop look
>> pretty good
>>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Lee Legrand]

I've also been in search of times that would match the Compass tires
without the same high cost. I was working on the assumption that a bigger
company with wider distribution channels could offer the same thing for
less. Doesn't appear to be the case. The closest alternative is the Soma
Supple Vitesse, which is close. The slight price differential matches the
ride differential. The Soma is also a VERY good tire.

I think you have to run a test and math.  Compass tires, if I remember
correctly, are made almost by hand which is why the cost is the way it is.
You get a tire that may feel the same in terms of ride as the high cost
tires but you also factor in wear between the two.  Hard to consider since
you have to get test for it but I understand why you would feel that way.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 8:00 PM, panog  wrote:

> The Soma Vitesse are awfully close to my estimation and at $35 a pop look
> pretty good
>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[panog]

The Soma Vitesse are awfully close to my estimation and at $35 a pop look 
pretty good

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Bill Lindsay]

My two-speed singlespeed is a custom Gunnar that I bought second hand.  The 
original owner spec'd this custom to be like a Samuel Hillborne, and it 
is.  It's got a 130mm rear end with a Phil single speed hub.  I'm running a 
16/19 White Industries DOS ENO freewheel.  The crankset is a 110 bcd, and 
I'm running a 38 and a 35.  So I have two gears with one wheel position.  
38x16 and 35x19.  



BL in EC

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 4:13:36 PM UTC-7, Eric Daume wrote:
>
> What's this two speed single speed? I didn't see it in your list. 
>
> Eric 
> Whose single speed BMC has three speeds 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Huge Rosco Mixte

[Tim O. (Portland, OR)]

Oh, man. I wish I was in a place to get one of those frames. Looks lovely! 
Can't wait to see pictures of the build. Congrats!

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[RBW] Re: Huge Rosco Mixte

[Jay Connolly]

I have owned some BIG bikes, and that is a REALLY BIG BIKE. I don't think it's 
for you, though, Kai. I'd be happy to take it off your hands. 

Jay

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Eric Daume]

What's this two speed single speed? I didn't see it in your list.

Eric
Whose single speed BMC has three speeds

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> I really enjoyed three long rides.  About a dozen of us went for a weekend
> trip to Bodega Bay.  I used roads that San Francisco Randonneurs use on
> several of their routes to go from Embarcadero BART to Dillon Beach.  It
> was about 70 miles, and was fun for several reasons, including the fact
> that all my other friends were so impressed that I rode there.  I pre-rode
> the first third of the upcoming Marin Mountains 200k brevet.  That first
> third includes about half the climbing and about 60% of the dirt that this
> mixed terrain brevet will offer.  It was my first time to ride over Mount
> Tamalpais in a long time, and my first time ever on several of the trails.
> It's very steep and very loose and rocky in some places, absolutely
> requiring you walk with a road bike.  That was memorable for feeling like a
> real adventure.  I also really enjoyed my summit of Mount Diablo last
> weekend.  It had been a few years since I had done that.  Measuring my
> progress in the BHS Time Trial on Strava, and comparing my times to those
> of "my" racers on the ECHS team is also really fun and memorable.  Tying it
> back to this group, I was thinking of Patrick Moore on today's road ride,
> which I did on my two-speed single speed.  I was feeling strong enough to
> tackle Wildcat Canyon on the "low" gear of my two speed.  Forced to get on
> top of the gear and stay on top of it (discipline!) I managed a PR on the
> 2.3 mile ~700ft climb.  There are more and I won't pick a favorite.
> Hopefully there are more yet to come. I'm not picking a favorite or most
> enjoyable bike, either.
>
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 3:24:33 PM UTC-7, lum gim fong wrote:
>>
>> OK Bikk:
>>
>> 1. I understand you are not ranking the bikes.
>>
>> But please tell us:
>>
>> 1. Which ride was the most memorable and why.
>> 2. Which bike you enjoyed riding the most.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Jay Connolly]

I've also been in search of times that would match the Compass tires without 
the same high cost. I was working on the assumption that a bigger company with 
wider distribution channels could offer the same thing for less. Doesn't appear 
to be the case. The closest alternative is the Soma Supple Vitesse, which is 
close. The slight price differential matches the ride differential. The Soma is 
also a VERY good tire.

Jay

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[RBW] Re: 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Bill Lindsay]

I really enjoyed three long rides.  About a dozen of us went for a weekend 
trip to Bodega Bay.  I used roads that San Francisco Randonneurs use on 
several of their routes to go from Embarcadero BART to Dillon Beach.  It 
was about 70 miles, and was fun for several reasons, including the fact 
that all my other friends were so impressed that I rode there.  I pre-rode 
the first third of the upcoming Marin Mountains 200k brevet.  That first 
third includes about half the climbing and about 60% of the dirt that this 
mixed terrain brevet will offer.  It was my first time to ride over Mount 
Tamalpais in a long time, and my first time ever on several of the trails.  
It's very steep and very loose and rocky in some places, absolutely 
requiring you walk with a road bike.  That was memorable for feeling like a 
real adventure.  I also really enjoyed my summit of Mount Diablo last 
weekend.  It had been a few years since I had done that.  Measuring my 
progress in the BHS Time Trial on Strava, and comparing my times to those 
of "my" racers on the ECHS team is also really fun and memorable.  Tying it 
back to this group, I was thinking of Patrick Moore on today's road ride, 
which I did on my two-speed single speed.  I was feeling strong enough to 
tackle Wildcat Canyon on the "low" gear of my two speed.  Forced to get on 
top of the gear and stay on top of it (discipline!) I managed a PR on the 
2.3 mile ~700ft climb.  There are more and I won't pick a favorite.  
Hopefully there are more yet to come. I'm not picking a favorite or most 
enjoyable bike, either.  

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 3:24:33 PM UTC-7, lum gim fong wrote:
>
> OK Bikk:
>
> 1. I understand you are not ranking the bikes.
>
> But please tell us:
>
> 1. Which ride was the most memorable and why.
> 2. Which bike you enjoyed riding the most. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/04/2017 06:41 PM, lum gim fong wrote:
 https://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/panaracer-gravelking-slick-650x42mm-brown-sidewall 


Panaracer rebranded?

Not an accusation, just curious, because if it is the same tire I'd 
like to save the 40$ per pair by buying these.


Anyone know?





Panaracer makes lots of different tires.  One thing I absolutely do not 
believe is that Compass is re-branding existing Panaracer tires.  Let me 
suggest you buy one of each and compare them.


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Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[lum gim fong]

Oops...answering my own thread.

GK are puncture treaded, so not the same as Babyshoes.

Man..why do nice tires have to be so expensive?!?!?! 

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[RBW] Re: Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Jeremy Tavan]

I just installed a pair of the 650Bx38 of the slick GravelKing. The casing 
is definitely heavier than the Compass tires - it's definitely not the same 
thing rebranded, though Panaracer does manufacture both tires. It's a 
comfortable enough tire, and hopefully reasonably durable, but it's not 
equivalent to the Compass.

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 3:41:25 PM UTC-7, lum gim fong wrote:
>
>  
> https://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/panaracer-gravelking-slick-650x42mm-brown-sidewall
>   
> Panaracer rebranded?
>
> Not an accusation, just curious, because if it is the same tire I'd like 
> to save the 40$ per pair by buying these.
>
> Anyone know?
>
>
>

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[RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[lum gim fong]

 
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/panaracer-gravelking-slick-650x42mm-brown-sidewall
  
Panaracer rebranded?

Not an accusation, just curious, because if it is the same tire I'd like to 
save the 40$ per pair by buying these.

Anyone know?


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[RBW] Re: 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[lum gim fong]

OK Bikk:

1. I understand you are not ranking the bikes.

But please tell us:

1. Which ride was the most memorable and why.
2. Which bike you enjoyed riding the most. 

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[RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[lconley]

I patch the tubes until the valve stem leaks at the tube junction, this 
seems to go before the tube rots.

Patching the tube also lets you know where on the tire the puncture 
occurred. I always align the tire label with the valve stem. If it is not 
obvious where on the tire the puncture occurred (typical with steel belt 
wire penetrations) the location of the leak in the tube will tell you two 
locations to look at on the tire. 

At least I don't have to un-sew and re-sew the casings any more. I had a 
set of Vittoria silk sew-ups in the early seventies that were worth a half 
month's rent (they were on my Gitane TdF when I bought it used), so I 
patched them till the silk rotted and they exploded. Sounded like a gunshot 
when they let loose.

Laing

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[RBW] OT: know anything about motorcycles?

[Dave Redmon]

I've owned three "thumpers" (single-cylinder motorcycles)--a 650, a 350 and a 
250, my most recent ride. My aim was exploring the beautiful northern Flint 
Hills within 100 miles of where I live in Manhattan, Kansas. I found a 2002 
Kawasaki Super Sherpa that was just right for me. The engine was air cooled, 
the seat not too high, and the price ($2500) quite reasonable. Four attributes: 
250cc displacement / 250 lbs / 70 mph / 70 mpg. I enjoyed five years of 
bulletproof riding before I accomplished my purpose and sold it for about what 
I'd paid for it. Now I'm back to my first love--cycling. --Dave Redmon

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Eric Norris]

Spare tubes of cement are easy to find online. They’re sealed very well and 
will last forever until you puncture the end for the first use.

--Eric N
Twitter/Instagram/YouTube: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:37 AM, George Schick  wrote:
> 
> I agree with all of the comments here about patching and patch types.  One 
> thing I've noticed lately, though, is that LBS's do not seem to be stocking 
> vulcanizing cement anymore - you can still get small tubes of it, but you 
> have to buy an entire patch kit including patches and that useless sandpaper 
> that comes with it.  Even Riv is sold out of those nice little tubes they 
> sold.  So I've resorted to Eric's method - I carry a spare tube and fix the 
> hole in the flatted tire when I get home.  I have a can (the kind with the 
> brush attached to the inside of the lid) of universal cement that I got from 
> an auto parts store - the stuff used with the plugs on holes in car tires - 
> and it works just fine.  I do carry a small patch kit in case I get another 
> flat on the road, but I've found that patching while out riding to be less 
> successful than doing it at home were I get get the tube good and clean, use 
> that can of cement, and clamp it on tightly with a c-clamp for a while until 
> it's set up good.
> 
> 
>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 5:59:39 PM UTC-5, Eric Norris wrote:
>> Properly done (which isn’t hard—just keep the patch area clean), patches 
>> last forever. I’ve found that most of the problems I have had in the past 
>> are related to cheap innertubes, not cheap patches. Seems like patches don’t 
>> stick to cheap tubes.
>> 
>> FWIW, I have had great results with patches and glue that can be bought in 
>> bulk online. The glue, I think, all comes from the same huge vat somewhere. 
>> Biggest problem I have is finding small patches. Knowing that most holes are 
>> almost microscopic, the huge patches that most places sell are overkill.
>> 
>> P.S. Ditch the sandpaper. You don’t need it. Just put a thin layer of glue 
>> on the tube.
>> 
>> P.P.S. Unless they’ve changed the formulation a *lot,* I would not recommend 
>> glueless patches. They might work as a temporary fix in a pinch, but they 
>> don’t last and will start leaking pretty quickly. 
>> 
>> P.P.P.S. I always carry at least one spare tube and use it to fix a flat 
>> tire on a ride. I patch the tube with the hole when I get back home.
>> 
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:49 PM, Philip Williamson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I've never heard that tire-patching is impermanent. Every time my patching 
>>> job has failed, it's been apparent right away. Patches last for years and 
>>> years.
>>> 
>>> I've sealed a few tiny holes with Stan's sealant inside the tube, instead 
>>> of by patching. So far so good on two out of three tries. These three tests 
>>> were adding Stan's to the tube after the puncture and airing up the tire. 
>>> 
>>> Philip
>>> www.biketinker.com
>>> Santa Rosa, CA
>>> 
 On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:36:10 PM UTC-7, lum gim fong wrote:
 What is your track record with patching?
 
 Has it worked like a permanent, reliable fix for the tube?
 
 I hear differing opinions about this.
 
 I can save some $$ if patching is a permanent fix.
 
 
 Not interested in tubeless at all. Just wondering about question in 
 subject title. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/04/2017 10:23 AM, lum gim fong wrote:

Sounds permanent. Do you all use patched tubes on your front wheel? Feel safe 
enough for that?


Absolutely.



For anyone who's interested, Rivendell has a video in the articles section of 
their website teaching how to patch a tube.



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Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Bob Lovejoy]

Bill, 

+1 and agreed with all of the people who have thoroughly enjoyed the 
reports and the pictures!  It has been great to see the bikes and the great 
places you have to ride.  I especially enjoyed hearing how well the Rosco 
Bubbe step-through fit in as it is always very cool when experiments and 
trying different things works out so well.  It also inspires me to try and 
create a few more structured goals and challenges here, though it's a 
little late in the season for too much.  That said, staying on the bike as 
late into the season as possible and riding daily as long as the weather 
holds will be a good start.  There is still time for some good, long rides 
and I will be taking that challenge to heart.

Anyway, thanks for the posts, the pictures, the stories!

Bob Lovejoy
Galesburg, IL

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Re: [RBW] Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Jon Spangler]

lum gim fong,

Yes, patching (when successfully accomplished) is permanent--as permanent 
as any inner tube can be.

In addition to the other suggestions here that reinforce following the 
directions carefully, I suggest:

1) inflating the unmatched tube as much as possible before applying the 
patch to help reduce the amount of stretching that occurs after
re-inflating: the patch will keep the tube from stretching evenly 
underneath the patch itself.

2) Rolling over the patch once it is applied to the tube- 

 

a) place the tube on a wide, flat, and hard surface, then

 

b) use a frame or floor pump barrel like a rolling pin and roll across the 
patch in different directions. 


 Rolling the patch like a pie crust helps cement the patch completely, 
IMHO. Not sure where I learned this step but it seems to help.

If any patch has failed to work you will know very quickly that the attempt 
was unsuccessful. Just try it again.


Jon Spangler
Alameda, CA

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:43:42 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> I must have installed at least a hundred patches over the years. (I used 
> to run narrow high pressure tires, and used to get more flats.)
>
> I've had a handful of patches fail. These generally fall in to one of two 
> categories:
>
>- Put the puncture too close to the edge of the patch (to cover a big 
>cut, or to try and cover both holes in a snakebite puncture with one small 
>patch).
>- Puncture right near the seam of the tube. (Sometimes it forms a 
>little channel for air to get out.)
>
> Even considering those, I have a patch failure rate of much below 5%. I 
> consider it a permanent, reliable fix.
>
> And what's the alternative? Throwing away a tube after every tiny 
> puncture? What a waste!
>
>
> Best,
> Reed
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 2:36 PM, lum gim fong  > wrote:
>
>> *What is your track record with patching?*
>>
>> Has it worked like a permanent, reliable fix for the tube?
>>
>> I hear differing opinions about this.
>>
>> I can save some $$ if patching is a permanent fix.
>>
>>
>> Not interested in tubeless at all. Just wondering about question in 
>> subject title. Thanks.
>>
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Steve Palincsar]

When there's no more room.


On 10/04/2017 01:28 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

I'm curious: at what number do others draw the line, and why?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Greg J > wrote:



... I typically patch a tube 3x or 4x before I replace with a new
one.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/04/2017 01:33 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
There's a line? Grin. When the hole is bigger than the patch I toss 
the tube. Tubes last me a long time. So far they die one of two ways: 
poor install and I blow the tube when I first pump it up; the tire 
dies also, from glass.




In my experience, mostly the die from issues at the base of the Presta 
valve.


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Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[RichS]

Bill, this has been a most enjoyable thread. Thank you for sharing it with 
the group. Congratulations on keeping the commitment!

Best regards,
Richard

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 3:38:06 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Matt asked for some kind of ranking one through ten, which is not going to 
> happen. That would only make sense if all ten of them had the same intended 
> use with similar objectives and expectations so you could say which one 
> delivers best. There’s only two bikes in my fleet with the same basic 
> intended use and that’s my two Black Mountain road bikes. One is at my 
> house and the other is at my mother’s house. Even then I don’t feel good 
> about calling one better than the other. There’s more than one way to enjoy 
> a bike. The variety in my fleet is the best part of my fleet. 
>
> BL

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[RBW] Re: 56 650b Hunqapillar arrived.

[MountNormal]

Bob,
  Velocity Cliffhangers of the polished variety.


On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 2:51:04 PM UTC-5, Bob Ehrenbeck wrote:
> Love it!
> 
> 
> Stephen, what rims are you using with those 2.4s?
> 
> 
> Bob E 

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[RBW] Re: 56 650b Hunqapillar arrived.

[Bob Ehrenbeck]

Love it!

Stephen, what rims are you using with those 2.4s?

Bob E 

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Bill Lindsay]

Matt asked for some kind of ranking one through ten, which is not going to 
happen. That would only make sense if all ten of them had the same intended use 
with similar objectives and expectations so you could say which one delivers 
best. There’s only two bikes in my fleet with the same basic intended use and 
that’s my two Black Mountain road bikes. One is at my house and the other is at 
my mother’s house. Even then I don’t feel good about calling one better than 
the other. There’s more than one way to enjoy a bike. The variety in my fleet 
is the best part of my fleet. 

BL

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Patrick Moore]

I once stopped counting at 36 on a tube that must have been 10 years old ...

Patrick "this is a very minor distinction, but it's all mine" Moore, who a
year or 2 ago donated or sold his huge stash of Remas because he now
uses *modern
sealants!*

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> There's a line? Grin. When the hole is bigger than the patch I toss the
> tube. Tubes last me a long time. So far they die one of two ways: poor
> install and I blow the tube when I first pump it up; the tire dies also,
> from glass.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 11:28:11 AM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I'm curious: at what number do others draw the line, and why?
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Greg J  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ... I typically patch a tube 3x or 4x before I replace with a new one.
>>>
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[RBW] Re: OT: know anything about motorcycles?

[Greg J]

Hi Drew, 

Check out the ADVRIDER forum.  It has a huge forum, but it is very 
comprehensive once you have an idea about what you want.  It sounds like 
you want to sell the 2 dirt bikes and buy a dual-sport---meaning that it 
can be registered for the road but also be rideable on dirt, like a cross 
bike.  I don't know a lot about dual sports, but that's never stopped me 
from talking.  

There are some parallels to the bicycle world, I think, in terms of the 
philosophy of motorcycles.  
   
   - There are those who are into the cool/famous bikes of the 50s/60s/70s 
   (whether Italian, British, etc.), sort of like the CR list (not making a 
   judgment here).  I don't think that's probably the most practical thing, 
   given that you have to fix/maintain them and they cost more.  These would 
   be your old Triumphs, Ducatis, Huskies, what they call "scramblers." 
   - There's definitely a BOBish contingent, who are into the practical, 
   reliable, old-technology UJB bikes.  It sounds like this is your sweet 
   spot.  I think some of these have been covered above, but I think the Honda 
   NX125 and NX250 from the 80s would be right up there, along with the Kawi 
   KLRs, Honda XLs, Suzuki DRs, and Yamaha XTs.  These you can pick up for 
   under $2500.
   - Then there are newer bikes with fuel injection.  These are really more 
   practical, but they may cost more than the 80s/90s models, and you don't 
   have the old school cred.  Think about a mid-line Trek or Specialized or 
   Giant commuter or MTB from the last 10 years--perfectly reliable, no 
   issues, but not distinctive in any way.  You can certainly find some at 
   your $3500 budget, but many will cost more.
   
A few more things to note. 

   - Dual sports tend to be taller than road bikes.  So if you're short, 
   that's something to consider.  
   - Also, motorcycles require a lot of maintenance, especially if you 
   don't ride them often.  You can't just jump on them once every 6 months.  
   You have to think about old gas, old fluids, carbs that will get gunked up, 
   batteries that require a tender, etc.  So you may consider a newer bike 
   with fuel injection (post 2000?), to alleviate at least the carb issue.  
   The newer bikes are really more usable. 
   - Unless you have a lot of time and a desire to learn MC maintenance, 
   pay more for the bike that's in better condition (tires, brakes, rubber 
   parts).  Although you can fix or replace most things, costs for parts are 
   not trivial, and you can blow through $500 in parts pretty easily to fix up 
   a bike in poor condition.  
   - Then there's the engine size.  If you're primary use is rural roads 
   and trails, probably 125cc or 250cc is enough.  The bigger the engine, the 
   heavier the bike and more power.  A smaller displacement engine is more 
   suitable for a beginner.  I'd stay away from bikes that weigh more than 400 
   lbs wet, and ideally far lighter than that.  I personally think the F650 
   and VStrom 650 recommendations are above and beyond what you want, need, or 
   can handle as a beginner.  

Finally, I can't stress enough that you should take a course, even if it's 
not required where you live.  


Greg

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Deacon Patrick]

There's a line? Grin. When the hole is bigger than the patch I toss the 
tube. Tubes last me a long time. So far they die one of two ways: poor 
install and I blow the tube when I first pump it up; the tire dies also, 
from glass.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 11:28:11 AM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I'm curious: at what number do others draw the line, and why?
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Greg J  
> wrote:
>
>>
>> ... I typically patch a tube 3x or 4x before I replace with a new one.  
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Philip Kim]

like others have chimed yes i consider it a permanent fix, meaning i don't 
expect to have a problem with it again, unless the tube gets a problem 
elsewhere.

i use park tools patch kit and its been fine. i even used it on an air 
mattress 4 years ago. still holds air.

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 5:36:10 PM UTC-4, lum gim fong wrote:
>
> *What is your track record with patching?*
>
> Has it worked like a permanent, reliable fix for the tube?
>
> I hear differing opinions about this.
>
> I can save some $$ if patching is a permanent fix.
>
>
> Not interested in tubeless at all. Just wondering about question in 
> subject title. Thanks.
>

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[RBW] still wtb Surly Nice Front rack

[Davey Two Shoes]

Yea, you heard me!

...silver preferred

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Patrick Moore]

I'm curious: at what number do others draw the line, and why?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Greg J  wrote:

>
> ... I typically patch a tube 3x or 4x before I replace with a new one.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Greg J]

Done right, I think the patch and the tube chemically become a single 
material -- I think the correct term may be "vulcanize."  So it should be 
permanent.  Now, if done in a rush, I've had the patch come off, but that's 
totally due to user error.  I typically patch a tube 3x or 4x before I 
replace with a new one.  

Greg

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Garth]

I used to repair tubes at the spot of the puncture, but now carry 2 spares and 
just put on another tube and repair it at home. Instead of using those silly 
tubes, I bought a 8 oz. can of Slime brand rubber cement from an auto parts 
store. Being a sealed can with applicator, you can use it all and the can won't 
dry out. Works for me. 

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Ryan Fleming]

Bill your 10 bikes X 200 mile saga has been very interesting to read and 
quite motivational to me...I'm retiring next June. I'm not thinking PBP or 
anything like thatI wouldn't rule it out but once I retire I'll have 
more time to ride ...my Rivs which do not get ridden enough...won't commute 
with them for reasons I've listed many times.

Anyway good on you for riding and writing about it; I don't think it's a 
pointless self-challenge at all. Emphatically I APPROVE!

Regards...Ryan in Winnipeg, MB

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 9:22:01 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> SP and DP have it correct. I’m riding almost every day and I’m doing 
> comparatively little hammering. The first three weeks of this was built on 
> a daily commute routine made up of four little six mile stages.  Anybody 
> can ride six miles at a conversational pace, but when you throw together a 
> 1000 Mile month out of many many little six mile rides, you’re already in a 
> good place to build on it. Once I had that base in August I was able to 
> throw in longer and harder big days among flatter easier cruising days.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[George Schick]

I agree with all of the comments here about patching and patch types.  One 
thing I've noticed lately, though, is that LBS's do not seem to be stocking 
vulcanizing cement anymore - you can still get small tubes of it, but you 
have to buy an entire patch kit including patches and that useless 
sandpaper that comes with it.  Even Riv is sold out of those nice little 
tubes they sold.  So I've resorted to Eric's method - I carry a spare tube 
and fix the hole in the flatted tire when I get home.  I have a can (the 
kind with the brush attached to the inside of the lid) of universal cement 
that I got from an auto parts store - the stuff used with the plugs on 
holes in car tires - and it works just fine.  I do carry a small patch kit 
in case I get another flat on the road, but I've found that patching while 
out riding to be less successful than doing it at home were I get get the 
tube good and clean, use that can of cement, and clamp it on tightly with a 
c-clamp for a while until it's set up good.


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 5:59:39 PM UTC-5, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Properly done (which isn’t hard—just keep the patch area clean), patches 
> last forever. I’ve found that most of the problems I have had in the past 
> are related to cheap innertubes, not cheap patches. Seems like patches 
> don’t stick to cheap tubes.
>
> FWIW, I have had great results with patches and glue that can be bought in 
> bulk online. The glue, I think, all comes from the same huge vat somewhere. 
> Biggest problem I have is finding small patches. Knowing that most holes 
> are almost microscopic, the huge patches that most places sell are overkill.
>
> P.S. Ditch the sandpaper. You don’t need it. Just put a thin layer of glue 
> on the tube.
>
> P.P.S. Unless they’ve changed the formulation a *lot,* I would not 
> recommend glueless patches. They might work as a temporary fix in a pinch, 
> but they don’t last and will start leaking pretty quickly. 
>
> P.P.P.S. I always carry at least one spare tube and use it to fix a flat 
> tire on a ride. I patch the tube with the hole when I get back home.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:49 PM, Philip Williamson  > wrote:
>
> I've never heard that tire-patching is impermanent. Every time my patching 
> job has failed, it's been apparent right away. Patches last for years and 
> years.
>
> I've sealed a few tiny holes with Stan's sealant inside the tube, instead 
> of by patching. So far so good on two out of three tries. These three tests 
> were adding Stan's to the tube after the puncture and airing up the tire. 
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:36:10 PM UTC-7, lum gim fong wrote:
>>
>> *What is your track record with patching?*
>>
>> Has it worked like a permanent, reliable fix for the tube?
>>
>> I hear differing opinions about this.
>>
>> I can save some $$ if patching is a permanent fix.
>>
>>
>> Not interested in tubeless at all. Just wondering about question in 
>> subject title. Thanks.
>>
>
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>
>

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[RBW] Re: BG Rock and roll tires 700c

[Davey Two Shoes]

700c? How much would shipping to NJ be? Gumwall or black?

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[RBW] Re: FS: 52cm Clem H, $900

[Davey Two Shoes]

This is a very good deal.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Deacon Patrick]

Aye. I don’t even consider it a risk and have never experienced it as an issue. 
My spare tubes are patched, as that only makes sense in rotation with the “swap 
tubes, patch in controlled environment” system.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Re-Tired

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I don't know about Kojaks, but Paselas are available in 650b x 42mm. I don't 
think there is a 38mm version, but I could be wrong.

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Mattt]

Bill,

We need a best to not as best ranking for the bikes you rode?  There is not as 
best to worst in my opinion on the bikes you rode.

Matt

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[lum gim fong]

Sounds permanent. Do you all use patched tubes on your front wheel? Feel safe 
enough for that?

For anyone who's interested, Rivendell has a video in the articles section of 
their website teaching how to patch a tube.

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Bill Lindsay]

SP and DP have it correct. I’m riding almost every day and I’m doing 
comparatively little hammering. The first three weeks of this was built on a 
daily commute routine made up of four little six mile stages.  Anybody can ride 
six miles at a conversational pace, but when you throw together a 1000 Mile 
month out of many many little six mile rides, you’re already in a good place to 
build on it. Once I had that base in August I was able to throw in longer and 
harder big days among flatter easier cruising days.  

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[RBW] Re: Autumn bike camping trip

[MountNormal]

Marc,
   Excellent! Thanks for sharing your pic. 


On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 9:03:25 AM UTC-5, Marc Irwin wrote:
> Congrats, that setup has been working on my Hunq for years!  You can look 
> forward to a lot of pleasant journeys.
> Marc
> 
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:19:50 PM UTC-4, MountNormal wrote:So I took 
> my bicycle on its first camping trip. A 52 mile round trip s24o with stops 
> along the way to enjoy the scenery and make adjustments to my saddle and 
> handlebar height...it's getting dialed in. The trip was topped off with a 
> sunrise coffee drinking session.

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[RBW] Re: Autumn bike camping trip

[Marc Irwin]

Congrats, that setup has been working on my Hunq for years!  You can look 
forward to a lot of pleasant journeys.


Marc

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:19:50 PM UTC-4, MountNormal wrote:
>
> So I took my bicycle on its first camping trip. A 52 mile round trip s24o 
> with stops along the way to enjoy the scenery and make adjustments to my 
> saddle and handlebar height...it's getting dialed in. The trip was topped 
> off with a sunrise coffee drinking session.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Autumn bike camping trip

[MountNormal]

My pleasure. 

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 8:25:57 AM UTC-5, Takashi wrote:
> A beautiful bike and beautiful scenery. Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Takashi

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[RBW] Re: Autumn bike camping trip

[MountNormal]



On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 7:56:15 AM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
> Excellent!
> 
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:19:50 PM UTC-6, MountNormal wrote:So I took 
> my bicycle on its first camping trip. A 52 mile round trip s24o with stops 
> along the way to enjoy the scenery and make adjustments to my saddle and 
> handlebar height...it's getting dialed in. The trip was topped off with a 
> sunrise coffee drinking session.

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[RBW] Re: Autumn bike camping trip

[Takashi]

A beautiful bike and beautiful scenery. Thanks for sharing!

Takashi

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[RBW] Re: Autumn bike camping trip

[Deacon Patrick]

Excellent!

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:19:50 PM UTC-6, MountNormal wrote:
>
> So I took my bicycle on its first camping trip. A 52 mile round trip s24o 
> with stops along the way to enjoy the scenery and make adjustments to my 
> saddle and handlebar height...it's getting dialed in. The trip was topped 
> off with a sunrise coffee drinking session.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Deacon Patrick]

Hammer? No. Aerobic, absolutely. The concept is simple. Hammering tears 
down the body, requires recovery. Aerobic builds up the body and it becomes 
more efficient and thus going faster, farther, longer for the same effort. 
Get and read any of the books by Maffetone. This one is a good place to 
start: 
https://www.amazon.com/Maffetone-Method-Holistic-Low-Stress-Exceptional/dp/0071343318/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8=1507121243=8-4=maffetone.
 

The heart rate monitor is a good starting point, but I just ride or run by 
feel (and always have). I'm also not strict about always staying aerobic. 
But I've been building a base for years now.

A few other factors: diet. The more processed foods in your diet, the long 
your recovery and lower your fitness. also, consider highfat/low carb. I 
only breath through my nose except for steep climbs or altitudes over 
12,000 feet. This gives me a precise feel for my breathing volume (as basic 
as heart rate), conditions the air through my sinuses (I drink a LOT less, 
both from nose breathing and being high fat in diet. Carbs require a lot of 
water.)

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 12:41:32 AM UTC-6, lum gim fong wrote:
>
> This has been the funnest thread that I can remember for a long time. 
> Thanks for the update.
>
> Now please tell me how you are able to recover fast enough to just keep 
> hammering away day after day at these big miles?
>
> Two of my  30 mile/~1900-2000ft round trip climbing commutes per week and 
> my legs are toast. Can't seem to recover fast enough to feel good on the in 
> between days.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Steve Palincsar]

After a while of doing it daily, you adjust and it gets easier and 
"normal".  Also, you don't "keep hammering away" day to day: you do 
easier recovery rides in between.  I've read time and again that the 
biggest "training error" people commit is hammering away all the time, 
never taking it easy.


I speak with some experience here: after today's ride I'll be over 9,000 
for the year; from May through Sept did over 1,000 mi each month (and 
Apr just missed at 996).




On 10/04/2017 02:41 AM, lum gim fong wrote:

This has been the funnest thread that I can remember for a long time. Thanks 
for the update.

Now please tell me how you are able to recover fast enough to just keep 
hammering away day after day at these big miles?

Two of my  30 mile/~1900-2000ft round trip climbing commutes per week and my 
legs are toast. Can't seem to recover fast enough to feel good on the in 
between days.



--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[Jay Connolly]

Yes, this has been worth it for your loyal readers as well, Bill. I admire your 
commitment, but obviously you have made some significant gains, and I'm sure 
that has provided motivation down the stretch. I also like your bikes. I've 
been tempted to get an RLT or a Black Mountain Road, and this thread hasn't 
done anything to change that.

Jay

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Re: [RBW] 10x200 mile challenge nearing the end

[lum gim fong]

This has been the funnest thread that I can remember for a long time. Thanks 
for the update.

Now please tell me how you are able to recover fast enough to just keep 
hammering away day after day at these big miles?

Two of my  30 mile/~1900-2000ft round trip climbing commutes per week and my 
legs are toast. Can't seem to recover fast enough to feel good on the in 
between days.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Re-Tired

[lum gim fong]

Ive heard good things about paselas and kojacs.
Are they both made in 650b x 38-42mm?

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