[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[iamkeith]

It's akin to high-centering on a speed bump in a car with low clearance and a 
long wheelbase.

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Joe Bernard]

You're telling me you have pedal strike on a Clem from small rises in the 
pavement while going straight. Come on, man. 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[masmojo]

"I presume ghost shifting is because of the weird shifters on the first builds 
of that bike, not the stays. As for pedal strikes, that's operator error. Don't 
lean into turns with the inside pedal near the ground"
If the bike is firmly "in gear" the shifter can hardly be faulted for a ghost 
shift. The SR shifters do contribute to overall shifting dodgyness though.
I've been riding for 50 years & raced MBs for 3. I am very well aware of how to 
corner. The pedal strikes in question typically happen over small rises in the 
pavement when I am turning gradually or not at all and really not expecting it; 
it's not a huge deal, just mildly annoying that my pedal or toe sometimes drags 
the ground. I imagine tandem riders probably have this same issue to a larger 
degree. 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[dougP]

We'll just have to wait patiently for the geo charts to be released for the 
MIT versions.  Even more important will be actual butt-on-seat ride 
reports.  We ride bikes, not numbers.  

Over time, the Atlantis chainstays have gradually grown.  The old flyer I 
have from when I bought my '03 lists 44 cm stays on sizes 47 to 56, the 
45.5 cm stays on 58 to 68.  The geo chart on the website for current models 
lists 46 cm stays on the smallest sizes and various longer ones on larger. 
A good product gets incremental improvements over time.  

Maybe we've gotten ourselves wrapped around the axle on this stay 
question?  Rivendell has pretty darn good judgment on these things, and I 
think we'll be pleasantly surprised with the result.

dougP  

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 8:07:29 PM UTC-7, Drw wrote:
>
> 2 things. 
> I have a 2017 650b Atlantis that has somewhat longer (though still 
> acceptably long) stays than previous atlanti and I think it is essentially 
> a perfect bike.The only anxiety I have about it has to do with future 
> potential unavailability of parts, which has nothing to do with riv. My 
> understanding of the new new model’s chainstay length is that it is even 
> longer. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think if you compare a, say, 2012 Atlantis 
> to one of the new new Atlantis, you’d get more than a 13mm chainstay 
> difference. Not saying that’s good or bad, I’m just saying that adding 13mm 
> to to a bike that had 13mm added to it last year doesn’t =13mm for most 
> people. 
>
> Secondly, losing that Appaloosa crown would be truly awful. It needs to be 
> on some Rivendell bike always. 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Drw]

2 things. 
I have a 2017 650b Atlantis that has somewhat longer (though still acceptably 
long) stays than previous atlanti and I think it is essentially a perfect 
bike.The only anxiety I have about it has to do with future potential 
unavailability of parts, which has nothing to do with riv. My understanding of 
the new new model’s chainstay length is that it is even longer. Maybe I’m 
wrong, but I think if you compare a, say, 2012 Atlantis to one of the new new 
Atlantis, you’d get more than a 13mm chainstay difference. Not saying that’s 
good or bad, I’m just saying that adding 13mm to to a bike that had 13mm added 
to it last year doesn’t =13mm for most people.

Secondly, losing that Appaloosa crown would be truly awful. It needs to be on 
some Rivendell bike always. 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[EasyRider]

So, about these long chainstays ... I kinda like the kinda long ones on my 
Bubbe road. They feel good. Somewhere on the Blug talks about how they make 
smaller bikes ride like medium sized bikes.

Maybe one of the reasons they're getting longer is weight distribution -- 
because more and more Rivs are set up with swept back bars and designed for a 
more upright riding position? I'm curious about TT lengths for the new Atlantis 
... still suited for drops, or longer like the Appaloosa?

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[RBW] Re: Well, Here’s a Spot of Snow

[ascpgh]

Not yet "hours" of rain, but an hour of rain was kept at bay. 

Better yet is the comfort factor compared with all the synthetic coated and 
laminated things I've tried over the years, ventile wins hands down. I feel 
very uninformed to have continued pursuing a strictly synthetic answer for 
a shell layer after wintering with this Hiltrek garment. Further field 
studies necessary to comment on the placement of the double layers and 
necessity of doubled arms. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 1:28:19 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Ah, yes. The Hybred Ventile. That name always confused me, given it is all 
> ventile, just double layer on shoulders and arms where needed the most. 
> Have you had it yet in hours of rain? (I know single layer ventile does 
> great in snow and wind, but not so long in the rain — so the strategic 
> double layer is a smart way to go ... if it works. Grin.) 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[phil k]

Wait the pic in the blug is a 26"? I thought on 47&50cm were being made. That 
is 50? Headtube is pretty big

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Joe Bernard]

I presume ghost shifting is because of the weird shifters on the first builds 
of that bike, not the stays. As for pedal strikes, that's operator error. Don't 
lean into turns with the inside pedal near the ground. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Sky Coulter]

I haven’t had any difficulty lifting the front wheel on my clementine or on my 
appaloosa.  I did have an issue w ghost shifting when standing out of the 
saddle on the clementine, but it resolved when i tightened up, then ultimately 
swapped out the shifters that came stock.

I look forward to more details on the atlantis, but worry that the appaloosa 
might be too close in function and form to continue on. Which wouldn’t be the 
end of the world, but i think the fork crown and headbadge are about as good as 
they get.

Sky in new west



> On Mar 23, 2018, at 6:17 PM, masmojo  wrote:
> 
> Too long was my assessment of tge Clementines chainstays; you may or may not 
> agree. The bike rides comfortably enough, it's great if I'm in no particular 
> hurry. But, it doesn't "wheelie" as some people call it. I don't need to pop 
> wheelies, but being able to lift the front wheel over obstacles is a constant 
> chore. Frequent pedal strike & ghost shifting when sprinting or climbing out 
> of the saddle. All things that are significantly reduced by shorter stays. 
> None of these issues I bring up after jumping on for a brief ride, I continue 
> ride & enjoy the bike, I think it's quite pretty and I always gets tons of 
> looks/compliments when I ride it. I accept it's quirks in the context and 
> personality of the bike and what I use it for, but I don't think these traits 
> would be endearing in an Atlantis. Though I assume most of these issues would 
> be minimized on a stiffer Atlantis with a smaller front center & I  hope 
> Rivendell sells a bazillion of'em.  
> 
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[RBW] Re: WTB - Old / used / cheap 650B tires

[KyleBH]

might have a mm of clearance. thanks for looking, but looks like I need 32s or 
smaller. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[masmojo]

Too long was my assessment of tge Clementines chainstays; you may or may not 
agree. The bike rides comfortably enough, it's great if I'm in no particular 
hurry. But, it doesn't "wheelie" as some people call it. I don't need to pop 
wheelies, but being able to lift the front wheel over obstacles is a constant 
chore. Frequent pedal strike & ghost shifting when sprinting or climbing out of 
the saddle. All things that are significantly reduced by shorter stays. None of 
these issues I bring up after jumping on for a brief ride, I continue ride & 
enjoy the bike, I think it's quite pretty and I always gets tons of 
looks/compliments when I ride it. I accept it's quirks in the context and 
personality of the bike and what I use it for, but I don't think these traits 
would be endearing in an Atlantis. Though I assume most of these issues would 
be minimized on a stiffer Atlantis with a smaller front center & I  hope 
Rivendell sells a bazillion of'em.  

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Michael Cinibulk]

99

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[masmojo]

It's possible.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I remember the Long Chainstay thread you are referring to. My response had 
little to do with how dare you question, but simply a kind of amazement, 
nay, awe, that you could ride your Clementine, hop off, and, "Ah, yes, not 
bad. But the chainstays, they are 13mm too long. Take it away, please!" And 
not only to have this refined discernment, but to also know that the bike 
in question should be redesigned, because everyone else will feel the same 
way about that extra 13mm. Because...why? I found the Clementine (mine was 
a 52/med) to have a wonderful, wonderful ride, whether on the road or 
climbing/descending Mt. Beacon. Perhaps what you are saying is I would have 
found it to be wonderful, wonderful, wonderful if only those chainstays 
were a wee bit shorter?  

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 3:24:43 PM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>
>
> When I got my Clementine I stated the chainstay were too long; my opinion 
> at the time & I pretty much got loads of those "how dare you question 
> Grant" type comments, but hm, what would you have me say? 
> Scaling up the chain stays totally makes sense, my basic feeling is just 
> recent examples have gone too far. The  stays on our small Clementine are 
> totally OK! My medium? At least 1/2" too long and a large I am guessing 
> more then that. It's  not a matter of ditching the concept, mearly fine 
> tuning & refining.

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[RBW] Re: Well, Here’s a Spot of Snow

[Deacon Patrick]

Och! I just noticed the arms are not double layered, and in my experience, on a 
bike, the arms need double layering.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Well, Here’s a Spot of Snow

[Deacon Patrick]

Yeah, I’m 6-2” and 200lbs. So you may be fine. I have no experience with the 
greenspot other than I know their smocks work perfectly for me year round 
layering, including my boiled wool (heavy) sweater under on blustry days.

Seattle — yeah, that very parallel to Scottish weather. Single layer is good 
for about 15 minutes of solid rain. Anything longer and you will get wet 
inside. LIkely not ideal for Seattle allweather riding. Double takes care of 
the issue, as does cotton analogy (great if you need active capilary action 
“pushing” both vapor and liquid outward, a feature I love). Their Hybred 
Ventile may be a good balance of lightweight (in the ventile world, not the 
nylon world, but it breathes and when buttoned up it’s equal to a nylon with an 
insulative layer added, opend up its more like a breathable windshirt). Talorc 
jacket might fit the bill? 
http://hilltrek.co.uk/shop-by-material/hybrid-ventile/

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Well, Here’s a Spot of Snow

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks, Patrick. Slim fit is usually what I need, as I'm 5' 11.5" and 140 
lbs. I bet a medium will still give me some layering room. I'm thinking it 
would be a great jacket for Seattle weather. My only question is whether I 
really need double ventile.

Eamon

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 4:22:49 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Good call, Eamon! Just keep in mind that the greenspot is trim fit, which 
> means if you get your correct size and are trim, you will be hard pressed 
> to fit extra layers under for insulation, making it a zero season garment 
> for the riding I do (which can include snow at altitude, even in summer). 
> But as a day ride jacket in warmer/more stable climbs, it’s an excellent 
> choice. If you need greater flexability in what you wear under, check out 
> their various smocks. Get the side zips if my want ventilation (but this 
> can get a bit flappy when riding, so I prefer without the side zips). 
>
> If you have any questions, feel free to pm me. I know it’s a tricky bit to 
> navigate (I’m not associated with them except a very happy customer who 
> takes his jacket on every ride and has outfitted his family with the 
> jackets too (they get to grow into them, like they do their Clementines! 
> Grin.). 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Joe Bernard]

Y'all should probably wait for a 650B pic, which is the Atlantis most people 
will buy. I'm fairly certain the current photo has 26" wheels, which really 
exaggerates the distance from tire to seattube. 

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[RBW] Re: Well, Here’s a Spot of Snow

[Deacon Patrick]

Good call, Eamon! Just keep in mind that the greenspot is trim fit, which means 
if you get your correct size and are trim, you will be hard pressed to fit 
extra layers under for insulation, making it a zero season garment for the 
riding I do (which can include snow at altitude, even in summer). But as a day 
ride jacket in warmer/more stable climbs, it’s an excellent choice. If you need 
greater flexability in what you wear under, check out their various smocks. Get 
the side zips if my want ventilation (but this can get a bit flappy when 
riding, so I prefer without the side zips).

If you have any questions, feel free to pm me. I know it’s a tricky bit to 
navigate (I’m not associated with them except a very happy customer who takes 
his jacket on every ride and has outfitted his family with the jackets too 
(they get to grow into them, like they do their Clementines! Grin.).

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: WTB - Old / used / cheap 650B tires

[Dave Johnston]

Can you fit 35mm?

-Dave J
Virginia

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 3:41:00 PM UTC-4, KyleBH wrote:
>
> Assembling a bike from parts, 650B conversion, need some 28-32 650B 
> tires.  You know those ones you took off your bike because they were worn 
> or old but didn't have the heart to throw out?  Yeah, those.  
>
> I do have some practically unused Fatty Rumpkins (too wide for my use 
> case) to trade.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Well, Here’s a Spot of Snow

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Looking good on the Riv cover page, Patrick.
On the subject of Hilltrek and ventile, I really want one of their herirage 
Greenspot jackets!

Eamon

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[RBW] Errandonneering 2018

[Deacon Patrick]

In which I strive to complete Chasing Mailboxes fantastic invitation to 
incorporate errands into everyday riding, having tried multiple years, and 
finally been successful last year.

I’ll update this post as I complete more controls, but wanted to post this in 
case anyone wanted to quickly jump in and join the fun! Today’s trip: 120 
pounds of bulk groceries, for the “You Carried What?” control.
https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/errandonnee-2018

Here are the details from Mary at Chasing Mailboxes:
https://chasingmailboxes.com/2018/03/11/errandonnee-2018-the-details-of-our-lives/

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Bin Chen]

I bought a Toyo built Atlantis off of eBay for $2000.

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 1:21:31 PM UTC-7, Belopsky wrote:
>
> I sold a fully built Atlantis for i think $1800 on this group
>
> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 9:48:47 PM UTC-4, Ryan Merrill wrote:
>>
>> I found a Toyo built Atlantis fully built up for $1600 on this 
>> group...keep an eye peeled, you can probably get one you like. 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 7:30:09 PM UTC-5, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>>
>>> My comments should all be viewed through the filter of someone who 
>>> really wants an Atlantis, got excited about the prospect of being able to 
>>> afford one, only to realize that this new version would not work for me. 
>>> I’m sure it’s a great bike, and don’t mean to poop on anybody’s party lawn. 
>>> Maybe I can afford a Waterford version in the future. 
>>>
>>> Eamon
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Patrick Moore]

I agree with your attitude and your comments. Me, I've been a fan of Grant
since 1994, and he (it has been a while) graciously accepted my custom
build idiosyncrasies and built the best road bikes I've ever ridden; these
are my handling and fitting benchmarks.

But it is silly to expect that no one, in any case, will disagree, or that
no one will express his or her disagreement on this list. The attitude that
only agreement is appropriate on this list, to my mind, disconcertingly
approaches cult behavior, and I expect it embarrasses Grant to no end.

Rivendell has move away from my own particular, idiosyncratic collection of
likes and wants, but so what? Riv still sells a great deal that I'd buy if
I had more $$, and that I could not find elsewhere; and for which I am very
grateful.

In fact, my bucket list includes one day before I die trying out one of
Riv's "cruisers" and, who knows, buying one. Patrick O'Grady, unreformed
roadie as he used to be, liked his!

As for tigg'd versus fillets versus lugs, I don't really care, as long as a
frame gets as close as possible to that Riv-like ride quality.

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 1:24 PM, masmojo  wrote:

> You know seriously not trying to bum Grant out; I've been a fan of his
> since before I bought my XO-1. I can appreciate more then most his
> inventiveness; you don't have to poke around the interwebs too long these
> days without running into somebody mentioning his name.
> I certainly don't question the basic premise of longer chainstays and I
> totally think there's a place for them. My main speed bump on the topic is
> how long is too long & how long is just right!?
> When I got my Clementine I stated the chainstay were too long; my opinion
> at the time & I pretty much got loads of those "how dare you question
> Grant" type comments, but hm, what would you have me say? I only try to
> put myself in Grants position & that is if someone has an issue I'd like to
> know, especially if it comes out of a customers actual real life experience
> with a bike they purchased & not just looking at pictures or running the
> numbers in their head. That's the main thing, right?
> Scaling up the chain stays totally makes sense, my basic feeling is just
> recent examples have gone too far. The  stays on our small Clementine are
> totally OK! My medium? At least 1/2" too long and a large I am guessing
> more then that. It's  not a matter of ditching the concept, mearly fine
> tuning & refining. No shame in that; I'm not being negative; criticism that
> is only intended to be constructive.
> When I  got my XO-1 I wrote to Grant, saying that I thought the stem was
> too low & I would have preferred Cantilevered brakes. He suggested I should
> have bought the next size larger frame (he was right), but the following
> year the XO-1 came with a different stem & Cantilever brakes. If he hadn't
> listened to the comments from me (& others I'm sure) would anything have
> changed? The worst work review I ever got was one that was so flowery, I
> Told my boss "the only way that could have been any better was if I'd
> written it myself; but even I wouldn't have been so easy on me"
> Onwards and upwards.
>
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**
**
*Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*

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[RBW] FS: NIP Pair of SQR Saddlebag Uplift clamps, regular size

[Patrick Moore]

Packege #1, ordered from Carradice on 3/5, arrived 2 days after package #2,
ordered 3/9 (needed oversized, initially ordered regular).

Am selling pair for the contemporaneous (at time of commitment to purchase)
dollar equivalent of the Carradice list price of GBP 2.50 and with *American
*shipping! (I paid GBP 12.50 for shipping.) 'Merkin shipping ought to come
to no more than $3.50, and just proves how much better we are than the
Brits.

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[iamkeith]

Again, purely a guess on my part. Hope I'm right.

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Evan E.]

73

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[DarinM]

Kieth,

Did you read this or infer this? I ask because I highly doubt that is what 
is meant. A combo likely means tubes will be welded *or *brazed to the BB 
shell, ie tig'd downtube and fillet'd seatube and stays.

Like you said, brazing a tig'd joint would only add costs and would also 
create a weaker joint by adding unneeded heat.

Darin

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 10:06:19 AM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 10:31:15 PM UTC-6, Dave Small wrote:
>>
>> I've been out on a 6-day tour and mostly offline, and got home today to 
>> the Blug and this 128-post (as I type) string.  I've just read through 'em 
>> all and Scott is the only one who's broached the thing I latched onto when 
>> I read the Blug:  What is a "combo tig-fillet BB shell?"  Does anyone know? 
>>  I'm as happy with fillet-brazed as I am with lugged, but I'm not enamored 
>> with TIG.
>>
>>>
>>>
> Dave,
>
> I don't think there's any mystery here.  Sounds like the bb shell will be 
> tigged in.  As others noted, this would eliminate having to have different 
> castings for *each* frame size.  Otherwise, each wheel size would have a 
> different drop dimension and, even in frames with the same wheel size, 
> proportional chainstay lengths would require the angle of the sockets to be 
> different in to maintain that drop dimension.   And the downtube angles are 
> different on each frame size anyway.   
>
> It also allows them to ovalize or baseball-batt the bottom of the seat 
> tube as the Blug description alludes to, and like the Roadini did.   I 
> don't know enough to understand the benefit of that - whether it ends up 
> being stronger by increasing weld length, or if it's easier because it 
> eliminates some tricky copes, or both.  The rear dropouts are similar.
>
> BUT  When done, they will go to the expense and trouble of covering 
> those tig welds with a fillet, making them both stronger and more beautiful 
> than a lugged shell!
>
> As I mentioned above, I can't imagine how this would yield a savings from 
> a labor standpoint.  It requires more skill, multiple steps, and a third 
> fabrication process.   So I assume that the main benefit is that it allows 
> them to get a design to market sooner, with more design flexibility.  
>
> The only downside I can see is that it would be hard to replace a damaged 
> tube in the event of an accident.  But how often does that happen in 
> practice?   Rivendells are lifetime frames for most people, but I'm still 
> guessing that replace-ability is usually more of a theoretical benefit.
>

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[RBW] Re: Cockpit Items - For Sale

[Mat Grewe]

Albatross is now sold.  All other items are still available

   - Compass Randonneur 42cm wide and 25.4mm clamp - Lightly used - $75
   - Silver bar end shifter PODS ONLY - Lightly used - $25
   - Riser quill stem from 80's Bianchi MTB bike for 25.4mm clamp and 
   standard 1" quill - Has cosmetic scratches, but functions perfectly - $15

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[MartyG]

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 6:10:48 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:

Is it a little sad that the Atlantis is changing?  
>
 

 The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin’
And the first one now will later be last
For the times they are a-changin’

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Dave Small]

iamkeith,

Thanks for answering my question.  I've always assumed that a joint on a 
steel bike could be lugged, fillet-brazed, or TIG-welded, and the mention 
of both fillet-brazed and TIG-welded for the BB threw me.  Since there's 
more than one joint I guess some could be welded and some filleted, and I 
hadn't considered that, or the weld could be covered---another option I 
hadn't considered.  I'll wait for more information from Riv, I guess.  

BTW, I don't remember TIG-welding ever being mentioned in the context of 
Frank Jones Sr; if I recall correctly the BB was described only as 
fillet-brazed.  

Dave


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[RBW] maybe I just really needed the coffee

[Ron Mc]

 

but it seemed like the place was full of stars

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Belopsky]

I sold a fully built Atlantis for i think $1800 on this group

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 9:48:47 PM UTC-4, Ryan Merrill wrote:
>
> I found a Toyo built Atlantis fully built up for $1600 on this 
> group...keep an eye peeled, you can probably get one you like. 
>
> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 7:30:09 PM UTC-5, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>
>> My comments should all be viewed through the filter of someone who really 
>> wants an Atlantis, got excited about the prospect of being able to afford 
>> one, only to realize that this new version would not work for me. I’m sure 
>> it’s a great bike, and don’t mean to poop on anybody’s party lawn. Maybe I 
>> can afford a Waterford version in the future. 
>>
>> Eamon
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[LBleriot]

I've always wanted an Atlantis, but couldn't justify it because I have a 
Bleriot.  I was excited to read about a lower cost alternative, but then I 
saw those chain stays.  Um. Yeah.   A bit of an outlier those,  Pay a few 
hundred less than the MUSA build and get a few more inches of rear end on a 
drop bar tourer.  I just can't stop staring at that gap between the tire 
and the seat stay.  Oh well.  I hope they sell a bunch, but not my cup of 
tea.

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 6:10:48 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> The BLUG today announced an upcoming pre-sale for a less expensive 
> Atlantis.  No doubt they will be made in Taiwan.  The pricing hint is "a 
> tad more than an Appaloosa".  Is it good that Rivendell is evolving?  I say 
> yes.  Is it a little sad that the Atlantis is changing?  I say sure, a 
> little.  I'd bet a dollar that some of their recent cashflow worries came 
> from the financials around this change.  Made to order frames are expensive 
> but cost you nothing until somebody wants to buy one.  Taiwan builds have 
> to be done in expensive pre-paid runs, which require a bunch of cash on 
> hand.  
>
> The curved double TT of the biggest size was on instagram I think.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA 
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[christian poppell]

48

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 3:46:46 PM UTC-7, John wrote:
>
>
> 
>
> Hi
>
>
> I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
> both, SO
>
>
> I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.
>
>
> Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back in 
> a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
> nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
> list
>
>
> First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll pay 
> shipping. One Guess per person!  
>
>
> Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
> any size to 826 Valencia 
>
>
>  (http://826valencia.org)
>
>
> And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 
>
>
> Thanks for reading
>
>
> John O
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[iamkeith]

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 11:46:05 AM UTC-6, Kainalu V. wrote:
>
>
> Is that in fact the case? Covering tig welds with a brass fillet? I 
> assumed it would be more like a tigged front triangle with brass in the 
> back. I know that some builders use electric welding of one type or another 
> to tack tubes together before coming in with a torch an filleting it up, 
> but that process is bemoaned by frame repair folks who'd rather deal with 
> one type of mess to clean up at a time when dealing with a repair. Not that 
> you'd ever need to, but maybe...
> Not that it matters, 62 is a bit small for the likes of me
> -Kai
> BK NY
>
>
I'm of course only guessing.  I just assumed it would be the same method 
and same builder as did the Frank Jones Sr. frames.  Here's 

 
a picture of that:




On the other hand... here's my Ritchey softail.  Story goes that Tom's 
employees welded up the front triangle, and then he fillet brazed the rear 
triangle.  




Finally, for kicks, I showed this when we were speculating about the Frank 
Jones, but this is my All-Rounder:  Lugged seat tube and downtube, but 
fillet chainstays, knid of liek you're describing:




So I suppose it *could* be both joint types visible in the case of the 
Atlantis, but it seems unlikely to me.





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[RBW] WTB - Old / used / cheap 650B tires

[KyleBH]

Assembling a bike from parts, 650B conversion, need some 28-32 650B tires.  
You know those ones you took off your bike because they were worn or old 
but didn't have the heart to throw out?  Yeah, those.  

I do have some practically unused Fatty Rumpkins (too wide for my use case) 
to trade.

Thanks,

Kyle


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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[masmojo]

You know seriously not trying to bum Grant out; I've been a fan of his since 
before I bought my XO-1. I can appreciate more then most his inventiveness; you 
don't have to poke around the interwebs too long these days without running 
into somebody mentioning his name. 
I certainly don't question the basic premise of longer chainstays and I totally 
think there's a place for them. My main speed bump on the topic is how long is 
too long & how long is just right!?
When I got my Clementine I stated the chainstay were too long; my opinion at 
the time & I pretty much got loads of those "how dare you question Grant" type 
comments, but hm, what would you have me say? I only try to put myself in 
Grants position & that is if someone has an issue I'd like to know, especially 
if it comes out of a customers actual real life experience with a bike they 
purchased & not just looking at pictures or running the numbers in their head. 
That's the main thing, right?
Scaling up the chain stays totally makes sense, my basic feeling is just recent 
examples have gone too far. The  stays on our small Clementine are totally OK! 
My medium? At least 1/2" too long and a large I am guessing more then that. 
It's  not a matter of ditching the concept, mearly fine tuning & refining. No 
shame in that; I'm not being negative; criticism that is only intended to be 
constructive. 
When I  got my XO-1 I wrote to Grant, saying that I thought the stem was too 
low & I would have preferred Cantilevered brakes. He suggested I should have 
bought the next size larger frame (he was right), but the following year the 
XO-1 came with a different stem & Cantilever brakes. If he hadn't  listened to 
the comments from me (& others I'm sure) would anything have changed? The worst 
work review I ever got was one that was so flowery, I 
Told my boss "the only way that could have been any better was if I'd written 
it myself; but even I wouldn't have been so easy on me" 
Onwards and upwards.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Steve Palincsar]

The only Rivendell related example of this I'm aware of is the Nitto TFL 
threadless stem from around 2006.  Tigged, fillet brazed and lugged.


The TIG welding is at the back, where the clamp screw goes.  The other 
two are obvious.




On 03/23/2018 01:46 PM, Kainalu V. wrote:
"BUT  When done, they will go to the expense and trouble of 
covering those tig welds with a fillet, making them both stronger and 
more beautiful than a lugged shell!"
Is that in fact the case? Covering tig welds with a brass fillet? I 
assumed it would be more like a tigged front triangle with brass in 
the back. I know that some builders use electric welding of one type 
or another to tack tubes together before coming in with a torch an 
filleting it up, but that process is bemoaned by frame repair folks 
who'd rather deal with one type of mess to clean up at a time when 
dealing with a repair. Not that you'd ever need to, but maybe...

Not that it matters, 62 is a bit small for the likes of me
-Kai
BK NY

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 1:06:19 PM UTC-4, iamkeith wrote:



On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 10:31:15 PM UTC-6, Dave Small wrote:

I've been out on a 6-day tour and mostly offline, and got home
today to the Blug and this 128-post (as I type) string.  I've
just read through 'em all and Scott is the only one who's
broached the thing I latched onto when I read the Blug:  What
is a "combo tig-fillet BB shell?"  Does anyone know?  I'm as
happy with fillet-brazed as I am with lugged, but I'm not
enamored with TIG.



Dave,

I don't think there's any mystery here.  Sounds like the bb shell
will be tigged in.  As others noted, this would eliminate having
to have different castings for /each/ frame size.  Otherwise, each
wheel size would have a different drop dimension and, even in
frames with the same wheel size, proportional chainstay lengths
would require the angle of the sockets to be different in to
maintain that drop dimension.   And the downtube angles are
different on each frame size anyway.

It also allows them to ovalize or baseball-batt the bottom of the
seat tube as the Blug description alludes to, and like the Roadini
did.   I don't know enough to understand the benefit of that -
whether it ends up being stronger by increasing weld length, or if
it's easier because it eliminates some tricky copes, or both.  The
rear dropouts are similar.

BUT  When done, they will go to the expense and trouble of
covering those tig welds with a fillet, making them both stronger
and more beautiful than a lugged shell!

As I mentioned above, I can't imagine how this would yield a
savings from a labor standpoint.  It requires more skill, multiple
steps, and a third fabrication process.   So I assume that the
main benefit is that it allows them to get a design to market
sooner, with more design flexibility.

The only downside I can see is that it would be hard to replace a
damaged tube in the event of an accident. But how often does that
happen in practice?   Rivendells are lifetime frames for most
people, but I'm still guessing that replace-ability is usually
more of a theoretical benefit.

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--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Wayne Naha]

I want my mug!  Let's do this.

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 9:40:32 AM UTC-4, thalasin wrote:
>
> Class action prepaid order?  Love it!  This has been a fun thread.
>
> Suffice to say, I heard from Spencer at Riv and it does indeed appear that 
> we may have reached the end of the mug line.  They require a high minimum 
> order and apparently took a long time to sell. In other words, be very, 
> very careful with those mugs, kids.
>
> Tracy
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Wayne Naha]

57

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[RBW] 54cm hunqpillar

[Bruce Baker]

Very interested in a 54cm hunqpillar anybody have one for sale??

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[RBW] FS: FS: Spot Acme Open 11-speed Alfine belt drive

[Anne]

Have a bit of an atypical bike for sale, 2015 Spot Acme Open with extremely 
low miles. These came in one size. 
11-speed Alfine hub, belt and disc. Alu frame and carbon fork. Couple of 
build items vary from stock specs. Clement PDX 700x35 tires, WTB saddle. 
 Link to all photos, specs, and geo: https://imageshack.com/a/iPLl/1

$725 plus shipping via bikeflights. 
Save some money and get an extra set of tires with pick up in Lansing, MI. 

Please message offlist. 

Thanks,
Anne
in spring is coming soon Michigan

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Mike Packard]

81

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Leslie]

24

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Tim Butterfield]

That's an interesting plot for dimensions.  Ideally, the graph would be
three dimensional as size affects some axis like the ability to fit on
public transport.  But, I was thinking more of just a general sense of
purpose to start with.

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:27 AM, iamkeith  wrote:

> That graph is cool.  A bit like a venn diagram, but better.  Here's an
> interesting open source diagram that compares stack and reach of various
> known bikes.  I bet this service/function could be used to map "function,"
> too, by someone more ambitious than me:
>
> https://public.tableau.com/shared/2ZJR4YT4Z?:display_count=yes
>
>
> On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 11:08:59 AM UTC-6, tc wrote:
>>
>> I like Tim's color space analogy.  It would translate very well, I think,
>> to any bike builder trying to convey, at a glance, where each bike offered
>> is targeted, similar, and different.  Once could imagine the major
>> categories ranging from pure road to pure off-road, while also including
>> other characteristics like weight, wheelbase, weight-carrying, cost, etc..
>> Pick the factors most important to you and zero in on the bikes with
>> largest footprint in the diagram.  Or, cooler still, each factor is in its
>> own layer, and mix and match layers to come up with a result you like.
>>
>> Then maybe throw all that out cuz you think some bike that is nowhere
>> near your target is just better looking :)
>>
>> Seriously though, I'm no math major but I'm sure someone who is could put
>> that together easily.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Virgil Staphbeard]

44

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Leaf Slayer]

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 10:11:28 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I banged the drum here for a DiscRiv a couple months ago, Grant just isn't 
> into it and probably figures there's plenty of other disc bikes out there 
> if that's what you want. 
>
> I hope they get the pre-sale up by end of today (3/23/18 as I'm typing) so 
> we can get this show rolling. 
>

I know. Well aware of Grant's thoughts on the subject but you know, one can 
dream. Back in 06 when I dove in to the Riv aesthetic, who could have ever 
imagined a non-lugged Riv. When I ride my LHT I feel adequately braked with 
Paul Cantis and when I ride my Ogre I feel adequately braked with my Avids. 
I've had my Big Dummy for 6 years and outside of a broken spoke, haven't 
had any problems with the wheels. With my LHT I've had to replace both rims 
due to wear. On the current set, Mavic a319s, the rear is showing some 
wear. 

--mike

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Tim Butterfield]

 Thanks, Tom.

This bike use spectrum may also be circular to more easily account for more
ranges being added.
In this case, ranges could be defined from the center out and easily
connect the dots to define a coverage area.  The coverage area line could
then be more jagged and not need a smooth line to connect one axis to
another.  Each axis, from the center outward, could be a numeric range such
as 0 at the center to 10 at the outer edge.  A next step may be just
defining what ranges to measure.  There could also be primary axis and
lighter weight secondary and tertiary axis added as desired.  This may be
worthy of starting a new thread.

Tim


On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:08 AM, tc  wrote:

> I like Tim's color space analogy.  It would translate very well, I think,
> to any bike builder trying to convey, at a glance, where each bike offered
> is targeted, similar, and different.  Once could imagine the major
> categories ranging from pure road to pure off-road, while also including
> other characteristics like weight, wheelbase, weight-carrying, cost, etc..
> Pick the factors most important to you and zero in on the bikes with
> largest footprint in the diagram.  Or, cooler still, each factor is in its
> own layer, and mix and match layers to come up with a result you like.
>
> Then maybe throw all that out cuz you think some bike that is nowhere near
> your target is just better looking :)
>
> Seriously though, I'm no math major but I'm sure someone who is could put
> that together easily.
>
> Tom
>
>
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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Kainalu V.]

"BUT  When done, they will go to the expense and trouble of covering 
those tig welds with a fillet, making them both stronger and more beautiful 
than a lugged shell!"
Is that in fact the case? Covering tig welds with a brass fillet? I assumed 
it would be more like a tigged front triangle with brass in the back. I 
know that some builders use electric welding of one type or another to tack 
tubes together before coming in with a torch an filleting it up, but that 
process is bemoaned by frame repair folks who'd rather deal with one type 
of mess to clean up at a time when dealing with a repair. Not that you'd 
ever need to, but maybe...
Not that it matters, 62 is a bit small for the likes of me
-Kai
BK NY

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 1:06:19 PM UTC-4, iamkeith wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 10:31:15 PM UTC-6, Dave Small wrote:
>>
>> I've been out on a 6-day tour and mostly offline, and got home today to 
>> the Blug and this 128-post (as I type) string.  I've just read through 'em 
>> all and Scott is the only one who's broached the thing I latched onto when 
>> I read the Blug:  What is a "combo tig-fillet BB shell?"  Does anyone know? 
>>  I'm as happy with fillet-brazed as I am with lugged, but I'm not enamored 
>> with TIG.
>>
>>>
>>>
> Dave,
>
> I don't think there's any mystery here.  Sounds like the bb shell will be 
> tigged in.  As others noted, this would eliminate having to have different 
> castings for *each* frame size.  Otherwise, each wheel size would have a 
> different drop dimension and, even in frames with the same wheel size, 
> proportional chainstay lengths would require the angle of the sockets to be 
> different in to maintain that drop dimension.   And the downtube angles are 
> different on each frame size anyway.   
>
> It also allows them to ovalize or baseball-batt the bottom of the seat 
> tube as the Blug description alludes to, and like the Roadini did.   I 
> don't know enough to understand the benefit of that - whether it ends up 
> being stronger by increasing weld length, or if it's easier because it 
> eliminates some tricky copes, or both.  The rear dropouts are similar.
>
> BUT  When done, they will go to the expense and trouble of covering 
> those tig welds with a fillet, making them both stronger and more beautiful 
> than a lugged shell!
>
> As I mentioned above, I can't imagine how this would yield a savings from 
> a labor standpoint.  It requires more skill, multiple steps, and a third 
> fabrication process.   So I assume that the main benefit is that it allows 
> them to get a design to market sooner, with more design flexibility.  
>
> The only downside I can see is that it would be hard to replace a damaged 
> tube in the event of an accident.  But how often does that happen in 
> practice?   Rivendells are lifetime frames for most people, but I'm still 
> guessing that replace-ability is usually more of a theoretical benefit.
>

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[RBW] Re: Well, Here’s a Spot of Snow

[Deacon Patrick]

Ah, yes. The Hybred Ventile. That name always confused me, given it is all 
ventile, just double layer on shoulders and arms where needed the most. Have 
you had it yet in hours of rain? (I know single layer ventile does great in 
snow and wind, but not so long in the rain — so the strategic double layer is a 
smart way to go ... if it works. Grin.)

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[iamkeith]

That graph is cool.  A bit like a venn diagram, but better.  Here's an 
interesting open source diagram that compares stack and reach of various 
known bikes.  I bet this service/function could be used to map "function," 
too, by someone more ambitious than me:

https://public.tableau.com/shared/2ZJR4YT4Z?:display_count=yes 

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 11:08:59 AM UTC-6, tc wrote:
>
> I like Tim's color space analogy.  It would translate very well, I think, 
> to any bike builder trying to convey, at a glance, where each bike offered 
> is targeted, similar, and different.  Once could imagine the major 
> categories ranging from pure road to pure off-road, while also including 
> other characteristics like weight, wheelbase, weight-carrying, cost, etc..  
> Pick the factors most important to you and zero in on the bikes with 
> largest footprint in the diagram.  Or, cooler still, each factor is in its 
> own layer, and mix and match layers to come up with a result you like.
>
> Then maybe throw all that out cuz you think some bike that is nowhere near 
> your target is just better looking :)
>
> Seriously though, I'm no math major but I'm sure someone who is could put 
> that together easily.
>
> Tom
>
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Christopher Murray]

I’ll pre-order one!!!

 I wonder how many pre-orders it would take? 

Chris

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Joe Bernard]

I banged the drum here for a DiscRiv a couple months ago, Grant just isn't into 
it and probably figures there's plenty of other disc bikes out there if that's 
what you want. 

I hope they get the pre-sale up by end of today (3/23/18 as I'm typing) so we 
can get this show rolling. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[tc]

I like Tim's color space analogy.  It would translate very well, I think, 
to any bike builder trying to convey, at a glance, where each bike offered 
is targeted, similar, and different.  Once could imagine the major 
categories ranging from pure road to pure off-road, while also including 
other characteristics like weight, wheelbase, weight-carrying, cost, etc..  
Pick the factors most important to you and zero in on the bikes with 
largest footprint in the diagram.  Or, cooler still, each factor is in its 
own layer, and mix and match layers to come up with a result you like.

Then maybe throw all that out cuz you think some bike that is nowhere near 
your target is just better looking :)

Seriously though, I'm no math major but I'm sure someone who is could put 
that together easily.

Tom


>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[iamkeith]

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 10:31:15 PM UTC-6, Dave Small wrote:
>
> I've been out on a 6-day tour and mostly offline, and got home today to 
> the Blug and this 128-post (as I type) string.  I've just read through 'em 
> all and Scott is the only one who's broached the thing I latched onto when 
> I read the Blug:  What is a "combo tig-fillet BB shell?"  Does anyone know? 
>  I'm as happy with fillet-brazed as I am with lugged, but I'm not enamored 
> with TIG.
>
>>
>>
Dave,

I don't think there's any mystery here.  Sounds like the bb shell will be 
tigged in.  As others noted, this would eliminate having to have different 
castings for *each* frame size.  Otherwise, each wheel size would have a 
different drop dimension and, even in frames with the same wheel size, 
proportional chainstay lengths would require the angle of the sockets to be 
different in to maintain that drop dimension.   And the downtube angles are 
different on each frame size anyway.   

It also allows them to ovalize or baseball-batt the bottom of the seat tube 
as the Blug description alludes to, and like the Roadini did.   I don't 
know enough to understand the benefit of that - whether it ends up being 
stronger by increasing weld length, or if it's easier because it eliminates 
some tricky copes, or both.  The rear dropouts are similar.

BUT  When done, they will go to the expense and trouble of covering 
those tig welds with a fillet, making them both stronger and more beautiful 
than a lugged shell!

As I mentioned above, I can't imagine how this would yield a savings from a 
labor standpoint.  It requires more skill, multiple steps, and a third 
fabrication process.   So I assume that the main benefit is that it allows 
them to get a design to market sooner, with more design flexibility.  

The only downside I can see is that it would be hard to replace a damaged 
tube in the event of an accident.  But how often does that happen in 
practice?   Rivendells are lifetime frames for most people, but I'm still 
guessing that replace-ability is usually more of a theoretical benefit.

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[sean]

03

Thanks for offering this!

Sean
ATX


>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[sean]

03

Thanks for offering this!

Sean
ATX

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 5:46:46 PM UTC-5, John wrote:

>
> 
>
> Hi
>
>
> I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
> both, SO
>
>
> I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.
>
>
> Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back in 
> a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
> nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
> list
>
>
> First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll pay 
> shipping. One Guess per person!  
>
>
> Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
> any size to 826 Valencia 
>
>
>  (http://826valencia.org)
>
>
> And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 
>
>
> Thanks for reading
>
>
> John O
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Adam in Indiana]

41

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[iamkeith]

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 9:55:05 PM UTC-6, phil k wrote:
>
> Iono I'm liking the new Atlantis better.


Me too.  It just looks "right" for what it is.  Or at least for what I've 
personally always wanted an Atlantis for - which is a fat/knobby-tired road 
bike that i can comfortably ride on trails and such.   

*And did anybody else notice that ALL of the projected sizes are all an 
even 3 cm apart?!  47, 50, 53, 56, 59, 62.  That's barely more than the 2cm 
sizes that the old 'classsic' Rivendell models came in and made them fit so 
well.  And it's much better than the often random, and often 4cm or bigger, 
jumps that the Joe, Clem, Sam & Roadini come in.  Which means that you'll  
be even more likely to find an "optimum" size that allows you to enjoy both 
the improved stand over clearance AND the improved stack height, without 
having to compromise by picking one or the other.*

Combine that with what I speculate to be an elimination or reduction of TCO 
( 650b wheels on sizes that would previously have 700c / front centers 
always seem to nudge longer on the 6 degree models / head tube angles were 
trending slacker on the 2016 geometries), and it all just makes sense.  
 The lack of all those things had previously added up to the Atlantis not 
quite working for me.  i know i'm an outlier but, as others keep pointing 
out, those who want a less adventurous and less versatile geometry can 
continue to get it, in the MUSA or other models.

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[RBW] Re: WTB 56 cm Hunqapillar

[jandrews_nyc]

Thanks Igor, I saw that last night..
I somehow missed the sizing/wheel changes. I've always been intrigued by 
this frame-set almost to the point of purchasing but felt I was in between 
the 54 and 58.  I know the 58 was just too big since I rode Rivendells' 
demo in the hills around their shop and almost broke my neck trying to 
dismount on the side of a hill.
Also was somewhat suspect of the 700c on the 54cm.  Would be very 
interested to test ride a 53 or 56 650b version of the bike.
Funny how I'm riding a 56 Hillborne and a 58 Quickbeam and I'd be sized on 
a 53 Hunq according to the info on the site.
Good luck with you search Virgil.



On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 11:38:28 AM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/hunqapillar
>
> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 8:04:07 PM UTC-4, jandrews_nyc wrote:
>>
>> Thought these came in 54 & 58... did the hunqa-sizes change ?
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Tim Butterfield]

I certainly appreciate Grant's participation here to explain what he has.
Any change to an icon comes with some nail biting and nerves.  It's
expected.   I'm sure the new Atlantis will be a great bike.  How can it
not?  In my case, I have no complaint or critique so much as a quest for
clarity.  What are the expected effects of the changes?

I sometimes liken the possibilities of riding a bike to color spaces.  Here
is an image from this page to illustrate:
https://www.color-management-guide.com/color-spaces.html



Consider this area the whole of the bike use spectrum.  The two lines
within may illustrate two different bikes.  Both cover the center and not
insignificant areas of the spectrum, but they are not identical.  Though
there are some common areas that overlap, they also each cover an area the
other does not.  Bikes are similar.  All of the Riv bikes are good bikes
that can all do some basic things of the bike use spectrum well, but some
models also have areas not as well covered by other models.  Shifts to
accommodate more of one area give up some cover in another.  That's
expected.

In the case of the the new vs old Atlantis, I was trying to speculate on
what this scope of spectrum shift might have been and, possibly, how that
shift may be explained.  The longer chainstays help with the mountain bike
aspect, but will likely have some impact on commuting via public
transport.  Are there other areas of the bike use spectrum that would have
similar positive, neutral, or negative impacts of the change?

Tim





On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 5:26 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Eamon said *"Jeez Bill, this is a discussion forum, not a positive
> approving comments only forum. :p "*
>
> You are right.  Nobody is required to be generous and kind in their
> comments towards Grant or his work.  If you want to insult his work, you
> can.  Just be aware that your honest and sincere criticisms will bum him
> out, somewhat.  Grant said:
>
>
>
> *"It's a minor bummer to find the latest greatest prides and joys
> evaluated harshly because the numbers don't fit into familiar spreadsheets,
> whether on paper on in brains. I'll retreat now..."*The things you type
> here do get read, and Grant cares what people think. You don't have to
> change what you think to protect Grant's feelings, and you don't have to
> keep your complaints to yourself if you don't want to, but I think it's
> worth remembering that it will hurt his feelings, and it will discourage
> him from sharing early info about other unfinished projects.  Grant's a big
> boy and he will get over it.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Ryan Merrill]

I love me some disc brakes, but on an Atlantis I really wouldn't want them. 
There are two styles of bikes that I ride where I prefer disc 
brakes...Cyclocross race bike and a pure mountain bike. Although, I could 
deal with v brakes or cantis on each. Actually, the Cyclocross bike being 
canti isn't much of a con and actually makes the race a little more 
traditional and fun I think especially when mud cakes up all over 
everything and the whole race turns into what it was like for me as a kid 
playing on bikesbut I digress. On a modern mountain bike I like to see 
discs. 


Not sure if was already mentioned but does anyone lese wish it was designed 
> around disc brakes? 
>
> --mike
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Birdman]

58

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[RBW] Re: Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Dave Small]

I didn't know these mugs existed until 2 minutes ago, and now I want one! 
 Or 2or maybe 4.  


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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Daniel]

67

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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[John H.]

20

John in Boston

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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[DarinM]

84

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[velokid]

93

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 5:46:46 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
>
>
> 
>
> Hi
>
>
> I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
> both, SO
>
>
> I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.
>
>
> Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back in 
> a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
> nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
> list
>
>
> First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll pay 
> shipping. One Guess per person!  
>
>
> Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
> any size to 826 Valencia 
>
>
>  (http://826valencia.org)
>
>
> And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 
>
>
> Thanks for reading
>
>
> John O
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Leaf Slayer]

It's been a few years since I sold off my AHH and I gotta say, I haven't 
really missed it. I know it sounds crazy, even blasphemous, but I just like 
my LHT more. From time to time, I've wonder about the Atlantis but it's 
just more than I'm willing to spend on a bike when I like my LHT so much. I 
pulled back from obsessively tracking all things Riv but when I'd check I 
didn't find much of a draw to the newer bikes with their extra-long chain 
stays. Lately I've been more curious and enjoyed checking out some of the 
Appalosa, Clem and Chev builds. As for the new Atlantis... I gotta say, I'm 
intrigued. I'm very much looking forward to seeing how people build them 
up. I've whittled the quiver down a bit to just 4 Surlys--Ogre, Big Dummy, 
LHT and Cross Check. I'm actually going to be selling the CC soon. I've had 
it for 12yrs but it's just not a style of bike I'm into. Furthermore, I 
recently put a VO Cigne Stem with Cowchippers on my Ogre and am absolutely 
loving it as my all-road machine. My Big Dummy (talk about long 
chain-stays) has been my go to bike since finally getting a bike barn 
installed in the backyard (no more carrying it up from the basement!).

Anyway, who knows what will happen or what the final price will be but I 
could actually see getting one of these new Atlantis's (Atlanti?). Seems 
like it would be a great bike for rambling around the back roads of the Mt 
Hood NF. I love that they're tentatively keeping it the same color. 

Not sure if was already mentioned but does anyone lese wish it was designed 
around disc brakes? 

--mike

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[RBW] Re: WTB 56 cm Hunqapillar

[Belopsky]

https://www.rivbike.com/products/hunqapillar

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 8:04:07 PM UTC-4, jandrews_nyc wrote:
>
> Thought these came in 54 & 58... did the hunqa-sizes change ?

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[RBW] Re: Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Ryan Merrill]

If they do make some more mugs, I'll buy two or even four. I missed out on 
them.

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:55:21 PM UTC-5, thalasin wrote:
>
> My Rivendell mug unfortunately met with its demise thanks to my klutzy 
> ways.  I had one in my cart to order but foolishly waited, hoping that some 
> out of stock stuff would reappear to add to the order.  Alas, not only did 
> that not happen, but now the mugs are gone and removed from the site.  
> Given the current state of affairs, it's probably going to be awhile before 
> any promo stuff shows up (if ever).  Anyway, it was my favorite mug and I 
> miss it dearly.  We can discuss price and I will of course pay shipping.
>
> Tracy
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Doug Van Cleve]

 ​Howdy folks
​​
I think the original Atlantis was really more of a somewhat stoutened All
Rounder (which was intended to be good for a lot of things ;^) than a true
touring bike.  Also, going back to the beginning, IMHO RBW wasn't really
about hand crafted bikes (although that aspect was celebrated).  Having
Waterford, then others, make them was the only way to get what GP wanted to
offer.  I think GP would have been happy to offer batch made/low production
bikes from the beginning, if it had been feasible...

Doug

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 1:49 PM, Ryan Merrill  wrote:

> The one thing Rivs are are versatile machines and I don't think the new
> Atlantis can be pigeon holed like that. The original Atlantis was a touring
> bike, but how many people turned it into a trail bike?  That's the way I
> had mine set up and I never once toured on it. Worked pretty well on the
> trails.
>
> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 3:01:04 PM UTC-5, John Phillips wrote:
>>
>> Grant wrote,
>>
>> "We've ridden a lot of bikes, lots of variations, and we live surrounded
>> by roads and trails no more than 15 minutes by bike away. It's not DP-Rocky
>> Mtn style, but as BL and JW and other locals will attest, it's hard to
>> beat. More important, we ride them. I admittedly don't have the challenges
>> of fitting bikes into elevators or navigating 3-floor walkups, and I'm
>> sympathetic to those who do, but that's what Bromptons are for."
>>
>>So...the Atlantis is changing from a touring bike to a Mt. Diablo
>> trail/fire road model for East Bay, non-multi-modal commuting, ranch home
>> owners? To me this is clear as mud, and it seems like a very small
>> demographic to be aiming at.
>>
>

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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Surlyprof]

55   

Glad to see this supporting 826 Valencia.

John 

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Dave Small]

By the way, John, thanks for offering this.  It's quite generous of you.

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[RBW] Re: Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

['thalasin' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Class action prepaid order?  Love it!  This has been a fun thread.

Suffice to say, I heard from Spencer at Riv and it does indeed appear that 
we may have reached the end of the mug line.  They require a high minimum 
order and apparently took a long time to sell. In other words, be very, 
very careful with those mugs, kids.

Tracy

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Shoji Takahashi]

18

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[MartyG]

50


> John O
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Frank Brose]

This is fun. 16

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 8:39:25 PM UTC-5, Nick Ybarra wrote:
>
> 14
>
> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 5:46:46 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>> I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
>> both, SO
>>
>>
>> I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.
>>
>>
>> Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back 
>> in a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
>> nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
>> list
>>
>>
>> First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll 
>> pay shipping. One Guess per person!  
>>
>>
>> Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
>> any size to 826 Valencia 
>>
>>
>>  (http://826valencia.org)
>>
>>
>> And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 
>>
>>
>> Thanks for reading
>>
>>
>> John O
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Karl]

The year of Rivendell birth.94

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

['Jennings' via RBW Owners Bunch]

47

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[RBW] Re: Super long chainstays and putting your bike buses/trains

[REC]

I'd be happy to ride to a bus depot this weekend, if no rain or snow, and take 
some measurements at how much addition tray space there is left.  Let me know.

Jonathan D. midway in the current Lower Price Atlantis tread 
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ww2KxKe9KPE says he 
has a Joe A. and fits in the Portland, OR bus tray.  You could ask him about 
his size bike.  

Roberta 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Charlie R]

And I suppose the next long chainstay Rivendell bike will be an Atlantis 
Mixte (aka Mountain Mixte) in Porsche red.


Bring it on..

Charlie

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[RBW] Re: Well, Here’s a Spot of Snow

[ascpgh]

Thanks for the close up Patrick. My Braemar is hybrid Ventile. So with no 
Nikwax Analogy to designate, I'll have to weather my environs undesignated.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 9:21:02 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Och! Andy, they didn’t give you the mutant lizard warding off all 
> dihydrogen monoxide attacks? After a ride like you just had, you at least 
> deserve to see what you’re missing out on! See attached. 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick 
>
>
> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 7:06:18 PM UTC-6, ascpgh wrote: 
> > Just got home.  
> > 
> > 
> > It was treacherous with black ice this morning, but passable this 
> morning since so few cars were out on my roads at that early hour. The 
> "snowcrete" was inches to my right when I did yield the lane. Tonight 
> enough had melted (sublimated) in the sub freezing daylight to clear my way 
> well enough even to account for more traffic on the road with me.  
> > 
> > My red hybrid Ventile smock has been just outstanding, even without 
> patch adornment on the left sleeve!   
> > 
> > 
> > Andy Cheatham  
> > Pittsburgh 
> > 
> > On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 4:17:59 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick 
> wrote:How’d the ride go, Andy? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I’m constantly ammused by the snow conditions I ride. Some are plowed, 
> some aren’t. What is in good, ridable condition one minute may be near 
> impassable the next if it gets plowed, or driven on, or the next day the 
> unplowed is far harder because of the freeze/thaw cycles it’s now 
> “snowcrete” but without a fat bike I break through, or even on trails, they 
> are easy to ride the virgin snow, but if even one person has walked it 
> already, can be near impossible. Snow manages to create multiple layers of 
> microcosm adventure matrices. Grin. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > With abandon, 
> > 
> > Patrick 
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[ascpgh]

66

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 6:46:46 PM UTC-4, John wrote:
>
>
> 
>
> Hi
>
>
> I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
> both, SO
>
>
> I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.
>
>
> Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back in 
> a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
> nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
> list
>
>
> First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll pay 
> shipping. One Guess per person!  
>
>
> Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
> any size to 826 Valencia 
>
>
>  (http://826valencia.org)
>
>
> And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 
>
>
> Thanks for reading
>
>
> John O
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Joe Bernard]

Yep, that's definitely your dog. And I definitely need the mug with your dog's 
mug on it. WE WANT MUGS! WE WANT MUGS!

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