Re: [RBW] Riv-ish Top Tube Protection

[Den John]

Velo Orange made leather top tube covers like that for a while, but not any
more. It could also be leather bar tape repurposed as a TT cover. Again,
I think VO have stopped making their elk skin TT bar tape.
Brick Lane Bikes make a leather TT cover too but it only seems to fit
narrower tubing than the 31mm tubes on my Rivendell bikes.

Cheers,
Johnny

On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 at 03:39, Matthew Williams <
matthewwilliamsdes...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I spotted this nice bit of leatherwork at my local shop. Simple,
> functional, elegant, and it looks great.
>
> Does anyone know if this a custom/self-made piece, or is it from a shop
> somewhere? It's gorgeous--who made this?
>
>
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>
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2021, at 4:31 AM, Den John  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> What do people do for Riv-ish top tube protection for their bikes?
>
> Clear stickers like helicopter tape don't seem very Riv-ish, tend to peel
> off and look a mess after a while, and possibly aren't the best from an
> environmental perspective.
>
> BMX/mountain bike pads with velcro fixings seem ok but aren't a very good
> match aesthetically. I'm using an old MTB pad at the moment.
>
> I've seen some ready made leather top tube covers but they don't seem to
> fit the 31mm diameter tubes on my Atlantis or Clem H. Similarly, Velo
> Orange had some elk skin bar tape but again I don't think it would fit. A
> home made leather TT cover might work I suppose.
>
> I've seen some people put shellacked bar tape along all or most of their
> TT but that operation looks like a massive PITA IMO and it's not easily
> removable once it's been done.
>
> What I'd really like is a canvas cover made of something like Carradice
> waxed cotton duck (it would match my bags at least) but I've not found
> anyone who makes something like that.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> Cheers,
> Johnny
>
>
>
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[RBW] Re: Riv-ish Top Tube Protection

[Nick Payne]

Rivendell themselves put clear plastic protection on the drive side 
chainstay of their frames - both the Rivendell frames I have came with the 
protection already installed - so I don't see that you can say it's not 
very Riv-ish. 

For protecting the toptubes of the bikes, which have the bare brake cable 
inner running along at about ten o'clock on the tube, I went to a motorbike 
shop and bought a roll of 3M plastic tape intended for paint protection. 
It's been installed for a good 20 years, hasn't peeled or yellowed, and 
most people don't notice that it's there at all.

Nick

On Tuesday, 6 July 2021 at 9:31:22 pm UTC+10 john...@gmail.com wrote:

> What do people do for Riv-ish top tube protection for their bikes? 
>
> Clear stickers like helicopter tape don't seem very Riv-ish, tend to peel 
> off and look a mess after a while, and possibly aren't the best from an 
> environmental perspective.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv-ish Top Tube Protection

[Evan E.]

An outfit called Clintonville Leather, on Etsy, sells leather top tube 
protectors in different lengths. Good quality leather, backed by a strip of 
inner tube and secured with Chicago screws. Here 
.
 
No affiliation.

>
>>

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[RBW] Re: NBD: Simple One

[Joe Bernard]

That's a nice bike! I can't ride singlespeed to save my life - Lord knows 
I've tried - but I love the Riv singles. Good score!

Joe "gotta downshift" Bernard

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 6:33:28 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> New to me bicycle day with pics to come later. I found a Simple One 
> complete for sale and jumped on it. Thanks to Tim in Boston for the good 
> deal (not sure if he's in this group). It is a 56 and fits well but there 
> is very little seat-post exposed with the saddle height set for me which I 
> haven't experienced on other bikes. The advantage is that I can put my feet 
> on the ground with just a little lean when I stop. This will work great 
> since I plan to use it for an around town errand bike. Anyway, I'll post a 
> few pics tomorrow after I change out the handlebars but here is one as I 
> bought it.
> Doug
> Athens, GA
>

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[RBW] Re: NBD: Simple One

[RichS]

Congratulations Doug! That is a beautiful and functional Simpleone. I bet 
your shortish errand rides will turn into longer ones:-)

Best,
Rich in ATL
On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 3:09:07 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> That's a nice bike! I can't ride singlespeed to save my life - Lord knows 
> I've tried - but I love the Riv singles. Good score!
>
> Joe "gotta downshift" Bernard
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 6:33:28 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> New to me bicycle day with pics to come later. I found a Simple One 
>> complete for sale and jumped on it. Thanks to Tim in Boston for the good 
>> deal (not sure if he's in this group). It is a 56 and fits well but there 
>> is very little seat-post exposed with the saddle height set for me which I 
>> haven't experienced on other bikes. The advantage is that I can put my feet 
>> on the ground with just a little lean when I stop. This will work great 
>> since I plan to use it for an around town errand bike. Anyway, I'll post a 
>> few pics tomorrow after I change out the handlebars but here is one as I 
>> bought it.
>> Doug
>> Athens, GA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv-ish Top Tube Protection

[aeroperf]

I use a leather steering wheel cover.  They come in different sizes and 
colors, lace on, and are cheap.

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[RBW] Re: Susie in a downhill bike park

[Brady Smith]

That's awesome. I just bought a BMC La Cabra and have felt a tad bit 
conspicuous riding it on trails in the greater Salt Lake area. Glad to know 
there's someone else out there doing the rigid MTB thing. I'll be up in 
Park City during the day for the next couple weeks and can't wait to 
explore. I probably won't try lift parks, though...

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 4:50:45 PM UTC-6 benjami...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thought folks might be interested in my recent experience taking my Susie 
> to Deer Valley lift-serviced downhill bike park.  Overall it was highly 
> enjoyable despite dealing with ridiculous bros.
>
> Got a ton of looks and comments, ranging from very positive ("Right on!", 
> "Old school!", "Love it!") to puzzled and dismissive ("good luck, buddy").
>
> She handled great! I don't ride downhill hardly ever, but she was super 
> balanced even on the black diamond stuff that the bros were tearing down. I 
> was able to keep up with my friends who were basically riding soft dually 
> suspended pillows. I found my Tosco bars to be perfect for the descents, 
> and my 2.5" Terravail's at 10psi to be enough to absorb a lot of the bumps 
> and grippy in tight corners.
>
> I was a little nervous about how she would do on some fairly gnarly 
> terrain and she was great.  Not looking to spend too much time at bike 
> parks, but good to know she is up for the challenge if I do.
>

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[RBW] Re: measured speed differences between road and touring bikes

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

About 7 years ago on the Opinionated Cyclist podcast (Diana R?), Richard 
Schwinn stated Schwinn did testing with a university to determine the speed 
difference due to frame weight.  The result was a 12 lb increase in frame 
weight resulted in a 1 mph difference.   I believe the wheels were constant 
(so constant angular momentum) since Schwinn was interested in frame 
weights. 
Richard Schwinn implied the results was not significant for 'normal' 
riders, but is significant in a race or a timed ride over a long distance, 
i.e., the rider on the lighter frame would cross the line earlier than one 
on a heavier frame and the time difference is calculatable (assuming each 
rider has the same power output).
The testing was done with college level athletics, to obtain a constant 
power output.

You should be able to use this to compensate your results for different 
weights.However, this does not include the angular momentum differences 
of different wheel weights.  

Perhaps testing over a flatter course would minimize the rotational effects 
of different wheels

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ  

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:12:34 AM UTC-4 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

> What is the difference in speed between a conventional road bike and an 
> unloaded touring bike set up in typical Rivendell style? I'm asking for 
> measurements and data, simply because I'm curious.
>
> My touring bike (Riv Atlantis) was 82% of the speed of my road bike 
> (Bianchi San Jose) on my rides last week, about 3 mph difference.
>
> I rode both bikes on the same 40 mile loop with 1100 feet elevation gain. 
> I wore tight spandex and clipless shoes on the road bike, and averaged 16.4 
> mph. After one rest day, I wore casual clothes on the touring bike, and 
> averaged 13.5 mph on the same loop. I worked a little harder on the road 
> bike because of the more aggressive position.
>
> Here are the two bikes for reference.
>
> [image: bianchi.png][image: atlantis.png]
>

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[RBW] Re: measured speed differences between road and touring bikes

[Nick Payne]

Cyclingabout recently published an article on the subject of bike weight, 
and how little it matters: 
https://www.cyclingabout.com/why-we-should-stop-our-obsession-with-bike-and-gear-weight/
.

Nick

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[RBW] Re: NBD: Simple One

[Joe Bernard]

Hey, I know those brakes! I'm glad they work on that bike, I'm not into 
fiddling with cantis either. 

I dig the slammed look. You mentioned not much post showing like you were a 
bit concerned about it, but I think the saddle and bars dropped low gives 
it a Path Racer look that fits that singlespeed frame. It's cool! 



On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 4:12:10 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> I changed the cantilever brakes to V-brakes which I like better. I cannot 
> get the cantilever brakes set up like I want. Also, I put Rivendell 
> Chocomoose bars on it. So far I'm liking the ride although I plan to put 
> wider tires on soon. The current tires are 28 mm.
> Doug
> Athens, GA
>
> On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 3:55:37 PM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>
>> Congratulations Doug! That is a beautiful and functional Simpleone. I bet 
>> your shortish errand rides will turn into longer ones:-)
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL
>> On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 3:09:07 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> That's a nice bike! I can't ride singlespeed to save my life - Lord 
>>> knows I've tried - but I love the Riv singles. Good score!
>>>
>>> Joe "gotta downshift" Bernard
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 6:33:28 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 New to me bicycle day with pics to come later. I found a Simple One 
 complete for sale and jumped on it. Thanks to Tim in Boston for the good 
 deal (not sure if he's in this group). It is a 56 and fits well but there 
 is very little seat-post exposed with the saddle height set for me which I 
 haven't experienced on other bikes. The advantage is that I can put my 
 feet 
 on the ground with just a little lean when I stop. This will work great 
 since I plan to use it for an around town errand bike. Anyway, I'll post a 
 few pics tomorrow after I change out the handlebars but here is one as I 
 bought it.
 Doug
 Athens, GA

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: measured speed differences between road and touring bikes

[Patrick Moore]

John: do you know if this weight difference was tested on a flat course on
one that included hills? Steady state or start and stop? I daresay 12 lb
would slow acceleration noticeably, but IME, as a very non-pro-level rider
(No!) weight itself, even 10 lb weight differences, make little average
speed differences for steady state rolling, tires being more or less equal.
At least, my 30 1/2 lb Matthews 1:1 with 62 mm EL Big Ones seems to roll as
fast on the flats -- judging by ease of maintaining cadence in similar
gears -- as my 18 lb Riv custom with 28 mm EL Elk Passes. (Big Ones are 450
grams each, Elk Passes are 175 grams each.)


On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 3:52 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> About 7 years ago on the Opinionated Cyclist podcast (Diana R?), Richard
> Schwinn stated Schwinn did testing with a university to determine the speed
> difference due to frame weight.  The result was a 12 lb increase in frame
> weight resulted in a 1 mph difference.   I believe the wheels were constant
> (so constant angular momentum) since Schwinn was interested in frame
> weights.
> Richard Schwinn implied the results was not significant for 'normal'
> riders, but is significant in a race or a timed ride over a long distance,
> i.e., the rider on the lighter frame would cross the line earlier than one
> on a heavier frame and the time difference is calculatable (assuming each
> rider has the same power output).
> The testing was done with college level athletics, to obtain a constant
> power output.
>

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[RBW] WTT 53cm Frank Jones Sr

[A. Douglas M.]

Hello all,

I recently bought a 53cm Frank Jones Sr frameset which was advertised as a 
55cm. Bummer.

I can get my money back, but that is a lose lose (for me and the buyer), so 
I figured I’d see if anyone here wanted to trade for this very rare 
frameset (I have a whole build which could be an option). 

The frame is in very good shape in the beautiful homer blue and would come 
with the FSA headset.  Geometry details are on the blahg or blug. But it 
has an ETT OF 55 for PBHs of 79.5 - 83. 

I like Rivendells, so let me know what you got off list.

Thank you!

Best,

Aaron “looking for a win win” in El Paso 

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Re: [RBW] Re: NBD: Simple One

[Patrick Moore]

Nice, and congratulations on the find. The world needs, I say needs badly,
more fixed gear and single speed drivetrains.

Whatgearyourunning? Or, more seriously, what is your gearing?

I only have 1 fixed gear left -- used to have 3 or 4 in the stable -- tho'
I also have a single speed off road bike. The 2020 Matthews 2:1 road bike
was designed for both fixed and hub gear drivetrains, but the AM hub is so
nice (72-65-56 gear inches) that I've been riding it exclusively in
hub-gear-multispeed-freewheel mode, and my conscience is bothering me.

As for cantis versus V brakes: For braking bot powerful and very easily
modulated, the IRD wide profile cantis set up by Riv staff on my long-ago
Sam Hill even today are my braking benchmark. For ease of setup, Paul
cantilevers are, if anything, easier to set up than V brakes.

If only I could get V brake power with Paul Retro (front) and Touring
(rear) ease of setup. Still, the Pauls are hellalot better than the Tektros
they replaced.

Patrick Moore, who just got back from a casual, and very pleasant, if quite
hot, out-'n'-back on the Matthews 2:1.

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 5:12 PM Doug H.  wrote:

> I changed the cantilever brakes to V-brakes which I like better. I cannot
> get the cantilever brakes set up like I want. Also, I put Rivendell
> Chocomoose bars on it. So far I'm liking the ride although I plan to put
> wider tires on soon. The current tires are 28 mm.
> Doug
> Athens, GA
>
> On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 3:55:37 PM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>
>> Congratulations Doug! That is a beautiful and functional Simpleone. I bet
>> your shortish errand rides will turn into longer ones:-)
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL
>> On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 3:09:07 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> That's a nice bike! I can't ride singlespeed to save my life - Lord
>>> knows I've tried - but I love the Riv singles. Good score!
>>>
>>> Joe "gotta downshift" Bernard
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 6:33:28 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 New to me bicycle day with pics to come later. I found a Simple One
 complete for sale and jumped on it. Thanks to Tim in Boston for the good
 deal (not sure if he's in this group). It is a 56 and fits well but there
 is very little seat-post exposed with the saddle height set for me which I
 haven't experienced on other bikes. The advantage is that I can put my feet
 on the ground with just a little lean when I stop. This will work great
 since I plan to use it for an around town errand bike. Anyway, I'll post a
 few pics tomorrow after I change out the handlebars but here is one as I
 bought it.
 Doug
 Athens, GA

>>> --
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: NBD: Simple One

[Patrick Moore]

This is one big advantage (but not the only one!) of Grant's penchant for
large bb drop, which puts the bottom bracket, thus also pedals, closer to
the ground. It's not the amount of seatpost showing (which doesn't affect
the saddle height, all else equal) but the "drop"  or downward angle of the
seatstays from rear dropouts to bottom bracket that allows this. In other
words, Rivendells, at least those I've ridden, have the bottom brackets and
pedals closer to the ground than other frames of similar sizes.

I've gotten so used to Rivendell bb drop that riding other bikes with less
bb drop, like my otherwise so unexceptionable Monocog 29er, always take a
bit of re-habituation when I ride them after riding my Rivs and Riv copies.

Doug H.  wrote:

> ... there is very little seat-post exposed with the saddle height set for
> me which I haven't experienced on other bikes. The advantage is that I can
> put my feet on the ground with just a little lean when I stop.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: measured speed differences between road and touring bikes

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Patrick

*I do not know the specifics,* only what Richard Schwinn stated on the 
podcast.  He also stated the weight difference would affect the average 
time in a stage type race, due to affecting the velocites (t=d/v).   I 
simply assumed, given his background, he knew what he was talking about

I are suggesting using it to correct for weight and see if the average 
velocities are due to a frame/fork/wheel difference or are other factors 
affecting the average velocity.   One key point he made was the use of 
college athletics to obtain consistent power inputs.   Today, Power Meters 
would used to ensure and correct for power differences. 

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 8:23:26 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> John: do you know if this weight difference was tested on a flat course on 
> one that included hills? Steady state or start and stop? I daresay 12 lb 
> would slow acceleration noticeably, but IME, as a very non-pro-level rider 
> (No!) weight itself, even 10 lb weight differences, make little average 
> speed differences for steady state rolling, tires being more or less equal. 
> At least, my 30 1/2 lb Matthews 1:1 with 62 mm EL Big Ones seems to roll as 
> fast on the flats -- judging by ease of maintaining cadence in similar 
> gears -- as my 18 lb Riv custom with 28 mm EL Elk Passes. (Big Ones are 450 
> grams each, Elk Passes are 175 grams each.)
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 3:52 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> About 7 years ago on the Opinionated Cyclist podcast (Diana R?), Richard 
>> Schwinn stated Schwinn did testing with a university to determine the speed 
>> difference due to frame weight.  The result was a 12 lb increase in frame 
>> weight resulted in a 1 mph difference.   I believe the wheels were constant 
>> (so constant angular momentum) since Schwinn was interested in frame 
>> weights. 
>> Richard Schwinn implied the results was not significant for 'normal' 
>> riders, but is significant in a race or a timed ride over a long distance, 
>> i.e., the rider on the lighter frame would cross the line earlier than one 
>> on a heavier frame and the time difference is calculatable (assuming each 
>> rider has the same power output).
>> The testing was done with college level athletics, to obtain a constant 
>> power output.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: NBD: Simple One

[Doug H.]

Patrick,
That makes sense and I think I attributed the low step off to saddle height
incorrectly. This Simple One is the best riding single speed I've tried! I
had a Wabi Classic for a while and the ride is so much better on the Riv.
I'll need to wrap the forward position of the handlebars tomorrow as I
found myself using that area during my ride, especially out of the saddle
uphill.
Doug

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 8:49 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> This is one big advantage (but not the only one!) of Grant's penchant for
> large bb drop, which puts the bottom bracket, thus also pedals, closer to
> the ground. It's not the amount of seatpost showing (which doesn't affect
> the saddle height, all else equal) but the "drop"  or downward angle of the
> seatstays from rear dropouts to bottom bracket that allows this. In other
> words, Rivendells, at least those I've ridden, have the bottom brackets and
> pedals closer to the ground than other frames of similar sizes.
>
> I've gotten so used to Rivendell bb drop that riding other bikes with less
> bb drop, like my otherwise so unexceptionable Monocog 29er, always take a
> bit of re-habituation when I ride them after riding my Rivs and Riv copies.
>
> Doug H.  wrote:
>
>> ... there is very little seat-post exposed with the saddle height set for
>> me which I haven't experienced on other bikes. The advantage is that I can
>> put my feet on the ground with just a little lean when I stop.
>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: measured speed differences between road and touring bikes

[Patrick Moore]

Just for the record, this is not my experience, in 25 years of riding fixed
and 60+ years of riding ss and multispeed freewheel bikes (I started riding
2-wheelers at age 4-5).

Now, my "fastest feeling", judging by easy of maintaining a given cadence
in a given gear in given conditions" -- is indeed my 76" gear Rivendell
gofast fixed gear custom, but OTOH, when I actually bothered measuring
times-for-distance, I'd often be just as fast in rolling conditions on much
heavier derailleur bikes with inferior tires (notably Salsa Fargo), simply
because I could coast downhill at 35 mph instead of spinning madly at 30
mph; more than that, I could often climb as fast on a bike 13 lb heavier
with a variety of lower gears than in the one-and-only 76" gear of the 18
lb gofast.

I do think that ss and fixed gear (species of genus ss) are,
all-else-equal, likely to be faster simply because there is slightly (3 w?)
less drivetrain friction and a wee bit less weight, but in real life
riding, this disappears in the tumult of all the other things affecting
one's riding.


On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 8:28 AM Joel Levin  wrote:

> I'd venture that the geared vs. singlespeed difference is playing a major
> role.
>
> I'm always much faster on singlespeeds when the route involves climbing.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: measured speed differences between road and touring bikes

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, John. Yes, I would really like to see Powermeter comparisons
between light and heavy bikes with similar builds, wheels, and tires. Of
course, nowadays, at my age, this is far, far less important that I used to
imagine it to be back when I was a greenhorn 40-something, and really,
nowadays, what makes one bike feel delightful compared to other bikes is
merely the fit and "feel" of efficient pedaling, this last due IME to the
fit of the bike to the rider, the way the bike positions the rider to the
saddle, cranks and bar, the quality of the tires and perhaps of the wheels,
and in last place ("last" is deliberate), the quality of the frame tubes,
in a way I won't try to describe; only some frames, even heavy, seem to
encourage "1 cog smaller".

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 7:15 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Patrick
>
> *I do not know the specifics,* only what Richard Schwinn stated on the
> podcast.  He also stated the weight difference would affect the average
> time in a stage type race, due to affecting the velocites (t=d/v).   I
> simply assumed, given his background, he knew what he was talking about
>
> I are suggesting using it to correct for weight and see if the average
> velocities are due to a frame/fork/wheel difference or are other factors
> affecting the average velocity.   One key point he made was the use of
> college athletics to obtain consistent power inputs.   Today, Power Meters
> would used to ensure and correct for power differences.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 8:23:26 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> John: do you know if this weight difference was tested on a flat course
>> on one that included hills? Steady state or start and stop? I daresay 12 lb
>> would slow acceleration noticeably, but IME, as a very non-pro-level rider
>> (No!) weight itself, even 10 lb weight differences, make little average
>> speed differences for steady state rolling, tires being more or less equal.
>> At least, my 30 1/2 lb Matthews 1:1 with 62 mm EL Big Ones seems to roll as
>> fast on the flats -- judging by ease of maintaining cadence in similar
>> gears -- as my 18 lb Riv custom with 28 mm EL Elk Passes. (Big Ones are 450
>> grams each, Elk Passes are 175 grams each.)
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 3:52 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> About 7 years ago on the Opinionated Cyclist podcast (Diana R?), Richard
>>> Schwinn stated Schwinn did testing with a university to determine the speed
>>> difference due to frame weight.  The result was a 12 lb increase in frame
>>> weight resulted in a 1 mph difference.   I believe the wheels were constant
>>> (so constant angular momentum) since Schwinn was interested in frame
>>> weights.
>>> Richard Schwinn implied the results was not significant for 'normal'
>>> riders, but is significant in a race or a timed ride over a long distance,
>>> i.e., the rider on the lighter frame would cross the line earlier than one
>>> on a heavier frame and the time difference is calculatable (assuming each
>>> rider has the same power output).
>>> The testing was done with college level athletics, to obtain a constant
>>> power output.
>>>
>> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: measured speed differences between road and touring bikes

[Patrick Moore]

I just read the article whose url Nick posted; enlightening! Now at an
average 30 mph (yes, extreme case to make my point) over 100K/60 miles, a
single KG would add 48 seconds to the time, and of course, that is more
than huge in a race's outcome. Heck, extrapolating wildly, an eight of KG,
a mere 4 oz, would by this calculation add 6 seconds, which in a race is
more than a big deal. So, for pros, yes, I can see that, *all else equal,* even
a few oz are important. But for us mere mortals, No Big Deal.

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 7:52 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks, John. Yes, I would really like to see Powermeter comparisons
> between light and heavy bikes with similar builds, wheels, and tires. Of
> course, nowadays, at my age, this is far, far less important that I used to
> imagine it to be back when I was a greenhorn 40-something, and really,
> nowadays, what makes one bike feel delightful compared to other bikes is
> merely the fit and "feel" of efficient pedaling, this last due IME to the
> fit of the bike to the rider, the way the bike positions the rider to the
> saddle, cranks and bar, the quality of the tires and perhaps of the wheels,
> and in last place ("last" is deliberate), the quality of the frame tubes,
> in a way I won't try to describe; only some frames, even heavy, seem to
> encourage "1 cog smaller".
>
> On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 7:15 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Patrick
>>
>> *I do not know the specifics,* only what Richard Schwinn stated on the
>> podcast.  He also stated the weight difference would affect the average
>> time in a stage type race, due to affecting the velocites (t=d/v).   I
>> simply assumed, given his background, he knew what he was talking about
>>
>> I are suggesting using it to correct for weight and see if the average
>> velocities are due to a frame/fork/wheel difference or are other factors
>> affecting the average velocity.   One key point he made was the use of
>> college athletics to obtain consistent power inputs.   Today, Power Meters
>> would used to ensure and correct for power differences.
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>> On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 8:23:26 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> John: do you know if this weight difference was tested on a flat course
>>> on one that included hills? Steady state or start and stop? I daresay 12 lb
>>> would slow acceleration noticeably, but IME, as a very non-pro-level rider
>>> (No!) weight itself, even 10 lb weight differences, make little average
>>> speed differences for steady state rolling, tires being more or less equal.
>>> At least, my 30 1/2 lb Matthews 1:1 with 62 mm EL Big Ones seems to roll as
>>> fast on the flats -- judging by ease of maintaining cadence in similar
>>> gears -- as my 18 lb Riv custom with 28 mm EL Elk Passes. (Big Ones are 450
>>> grams each, Elk Passes are 175 grams each.)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 3:52 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 About 7 years ago on the Opinionated Cyclist podcast (Diana R?),
 Richard Schwinn stated Schwinn did testing with a university to determine
 the speed difference due to frame weight.  The result was a 12 lb increase
 in frame weight resulted in a 1 mph difference.   I believe the wheels were
 constant (so constant angular momentum) since Schwinn was interested in
 frame weights.
 Richard Schwinn implied the results was not significant for 'normal'
 riders, but is significant in a race or a timed ride over a long distance,
 i.e., the rider on the lighter frame would cross the line earlier than one
 on a heavier frame and the time difference is calculatable (assuming each
 rider has the same power output).
 The testing was done with college level athletics, to obtain a constant
 power output.

>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/bff024fc-1dd7-4adb-81d9-f7a3c3cf8f1en%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv-ish Top Tube Protection

[Nick Payne]

On Sunday, 18 July 2021 at 3:19:20 am UTC+10 john...@gmail.com wrote:

> @Nick Payne Rivendell has all kinds of stuff on their site that you can 
> do yourself but they don't put on their complete bikes as standard. 
> Adjustable cup BBs, shellack over bar tape, cork grips, home made pump 
> pegs and grips,... Grant P likes the adjustable BBs but says it's not 
> economical to put them on all the completes they send out. Maybe the same 
> goes for the clear plastic chainstay covers: that's probably just the 
> easiest, quickest way to protect the bikes that they build up.
>

No, these weren't built-up bikes that I bought. They were bare framesets, 
and they both came with clear plastic chainstay protector already stuck on.

Nick

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