[RBW] Re: Did Charlie Gallop lose its swoopy top tube?

[Mackenzy Albright]

Reminds me of the Jack Taylor Rough Stuff. I think the calipers vs 
cantilever is more of the shame than losing the swoopy tube. Overall a good 
lookin bike. 

On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 11:13:20 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:

>
>
> On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 8:54:47 AM UTC-6 brok...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> .. does that mean the weight limit on those is going to be even lighter 
> than before? Do you need to be a 150 lb rider to ride one now? I 
> specifically chose the Gus because of all the discussions around the 
> purported weight limits they placed on the 
>
>
>
> Ok..  what I'm wondering *now*, is if there will still be a Gus too, 
> after all.  I may have not followed closely enough and don't want to go 
> back and search old info, but I thought the reason that we all assumed the 
> Gus and Susie were merging into a single model was because a blug blurb 
> said something about a "hybrid."   But could that have meant a hybrid in 
> terms of lugs PLUS fillet welds? That's what these samples appear to be. 
>
> Regarding weight limits, it seems that - with a couple of notable 
> exceptions discussed in the group - the original Susie was alot stronger 
> than anticipated.  So I wouldn't fret too much if you're considering 
> getting one.  I'm a big guy myself, and certainly have no qualms riding my 
> own Susie in rough conditions. It doesn't flex nearly as much as other 
> bikes I own.   
>
> I kind of thought the biggest difference between the gus's and susie's 
> relative frame stregths came from their tubing diameters - especially the 
> downtube, but including the headtube.   Maybe they could just thicken guage 
> of  the smaller-diameter tubing if they wanted to make the susie stronger?  
> Or make thin the gauge of the gus if they wanted to make it lighter?   But 
> the later would require new lugs and we know Grant doesn't like thin, 
> easily-dented tubing.
>
> The oddest thing about not having a Gus Boots Willsen model is going to be 
> explaining to people where Susie W Longbolts and Wolbis Slugstone derived 
> from.
>

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[RBW] FS: Dark Olive Green SACKVILLE SMALL SADDLESACK

[Alex K]

This is the smaller version of the BagBoy. You can read about some of the 
differences here:
https://www.rivbike.com/products/sackville-bagboy
It is quite well used. I trimmed the strap, as you can see, as it always 
dangled and I never stuffed it so full that I ever needed all that strap. 
Also, it's missing a RIVet for the strap. Again, well used.  Not many of 
these floating around anymore, and I've updated to a BagsXBird Piccolo as a 
saddlesack. Here are pics of the bag, email me for pics of the bag mounted 
if you'd like. This was, according to the page I shared above, $162 new. so 
I'll halve that and call it $81 for local Bay Area buyers
$90 shipped CONUS.
If this seems outrageously high, just make me an offer.
I would also be willing to use this bag as trade for a BagsXBird Medium or 
Large Goldback, no matter the condition.
Thanks!
Alex
a c k s f 7 8 gmail


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[RBW] PSA: Rivendell Bicycles BUY/SELL/TRADE Facebook front page

[Kim H.]

For all of you that do not have an account with Facebook, the Rivendell 
Bicycles BUY/SELL/TRADE Facebook page is now in inaccessible. They have 
gone private. I don't blame them to protect from scammers, after a poll was 
taken to vote to either have it remain public or private. 

For me, I am hesitate about joining Facebook again. 

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.

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[RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Mike Godwin]

Hi Folks
A good thread here to ask a question, somewhat related. A coworker was 
lamenting that a spoke broke on his Campy Nucleon rear wheel. I suggested 
Gerd Schraner web pages for info on the wheel (2002 era). But I could not 
find a link to the darn web page. Only his book.  Got link? 

Based on grainy web photos, it looks like straight pull stainless steel 
spokes are used, and nipples are hidden in the rim. He did not have the 
wheel at work. 
Mike SLO CA 
On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 5:46:21 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:

> Well, too late now, but thanks for the input. I'll have to check them out. 
> I would have liked a local option. 
>
> On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:19:46 PM UTC-4 MM Indy wrote:
>
>> Josh,
>>   Stay local and checkout Owen at Clermont Cyclery.
>>   Owen has built several wheelsets for me that are running strong.
>>   The one he built for my Rosco Platy (WI MI5 Hubs + Berd Spokes + 
>> Velocity Quill Rims) is the one most dear to me.
>>   He is willing to build to my specs and the pricing is competitive. 
>> Best
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, September 3, 2023 at 8:50:58 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I saw several recommendations for Sugar but their site showed a 
>>> bunch of Astral and carbon hoops. I'm sure they can get in whatever you 
>>> want but that's why I didn't initially reach out to them. Also, at least 
>>> Peter White is on this side of the country. Him and his wife Linda seemed 
>>> quite knowledgable.  I'll report back when I get the wheels and let y'all 
>>> know how they turned out. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 3, 2023 at 8:20:13 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:
>>>
 Peter White is also a very good resource for insight on hubs and rims 
 to use for wheel builds. He always seems to have some things squirreled 
 away that would be just the thing for your build. Have an honest 
 assessment 
 of your weight, riding, loads and other needs and he'll quote you up. He's 
 built several wheel sets for me and I have nothing but compliments. 
 several 
 works for me too although not quite local. 

 Andy Cheatham
 Pittsburgh

 On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 7:09:15 AM UTC-4 jrst...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Not close to you but I used Peter White on my last wheels and have 
> been very pleased. He is meticulous. 
>
> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 7:49:49 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> Thanks. I've heard of Sugar but didn't think of that, I'll look into 
>> them. 
>>
>> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 2:13:14 PM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I had several nice wheels over the years, including some Rich built. 
>>> I have to recommend Sugar wheel works. I had a set of SimWorks 
>>> Stand-alone 
>>> rims (Velocity Cliffhanger) with CX ray spokes MI5 rear hub and Son 
>>> front 
>>> and they were the nicest build I’ve ever seen by far. Great to work 
>>> with 
>>> and the price was much better than some other options as well. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 12:56:10 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Laing. I do have a set of VO rims on a bike that I recently 
 acquired and like them so far. I've ridden on them throughout the 
 summer 
 quite a bit. I like that they come in a polished finish but the 
 highest 
 hole count is 36. I'm not sure how they will hold up just yet, but 
 they 
 seem nice. Wish they did 'em in a 40h. I don't mind truing a wheel, 
 and 
 have a truing stand, but I'd rather have a pro build the wheel. 

 On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:05:52 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> I almost always build my own wheels, but you cannot go wrong with 
> either Rich Lesnik (Rivendell / Hands On Wheels) or Peter White. I 
> have had 
> wheels from both, and they were flawless. Not local to you though, 
> west 
> coast and east coast respectively.
>
> I use Velocity or Velo Orange rims; Phil Wood, White Industries, 
> Paul, Curtis Odom or classic Campagnolo hubs (Nuovo Record or Tipo); 
> and 
> Wheelsmith (out of production but still out there) or Sapim spokes. 
> Most of 
> my wheels are now 40 and 48 spoke, but I do have quite a few 36 and 
> even a 
> couple 32s.
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:13:50 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> I could use a recommendation for a good wheel builder. I've used 
>> prowheelbuilder.com in the past and have no complaints. Not sure 
>> how I landed on them. Just curious if there is another business that 
>> I 
>> should be looking into? I'm located in Indianapolis as well, and 
>> would 
>> prefer sending business to a local or at least midwest 

[RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Josh C]

Well, too late now, but thanks for the input. I'll have to check them out. 
I would have liked a local option. 

On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:19:46 PM UTC-4 MM Indy wrote:

> Josh,
>   Stay local and checkout Owen at Clermont Cyclery.
>   Owen has built several wheelsets for me that are running strong.
>   The one he built for my Rosco Platy (WI MI5 Hubs + Berd Spokes + 
> Velocity Quill Rims) is the one most dear to me.
>   He is willing to build to my specs and the pricing is competitive. 
> Best
>
>
> On Sunday, September 3, 2023 at 8:50:58 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I saw several recommendations for Sugar but their site showed a 
>> bunch of Astral and carbon hoops. I'm sure they can get in whatever you 
>> want but that's why I didn't initially reach out to them. Also, at least 
>> Peter White is on this side of the country. Him and his wife Linda seemed 
>> quite knowledgable.  I'll report back when I get the wheels and let y'all 
>> know how they turned out. 
>>
>> On Sunday, September 3, 2023 at 8:20:13 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:
>>
>>> Peter White is also a very good resource for insight on hubs and rims to 
>>> use for wheel builds. He always seems to have some things squirreled away 
>>> that would be just the thing for your build. Have an honest assessment of 
>>> your weight, riding, loads and other needs and he'll quote you up. He's 
>>> built several wheel sets for me and I have nothing but compliments. several 
>>> works for me too although not quite local. 
>>>
>>> Andy Cheatham
>>> Pittsburgh
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 7:09:15 AM UTC-4 jrst...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Not close to you but I used Peter White on my last wheels and have been 
 very pleased. He is meticulous. 

 On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 7:49:49 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> Thanks. I've heard of Sugar but didn't think of that, I'll look into 
> them. 
>
> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 2:13:14 PM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I had several nice wheels over the years, including some Rich built. 
>> I have to recommend Sugar wheel works. I had a set of SimWorks 
>> Stand-alone 
>> rims (Velocity Cliffhanger) with CX ray spokes MI5 rear hub and Son 
>> front 
>> and they were the nicest build I’ve ever seen by far. Great to work with 
>> and the price was much better than some other options as well. 
>>
>> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 12:56:10 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Laing. I do have a set of VO rims on a bike that I recently 
>>> acquired and like them so far. I've ridden on them throughout the 
>>> summer 
>>> quite a bit. I like that they come in a polished finish but the highest 
>>> hole count is 36. I'm not sure how they will hold up just yet, but they 
>>> seem nice. Wish they did 'em in a 40h. I don't mind truing a wheel, and 
>>> have a truing stand, but I'd rather have a pro build the wheel. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:05:52 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>>>
 I almost always build my own wheels, but you cannot go wrong with 
 either Rich Lesnik (Rivendell / Hands On Wheels) or Peter White. I 
 have had 
 wheels from both, and they were flawless. Not local to you though, 
 west 
 coast and east coast respectively.

 I use Velocity or Velo Orange rims; Phil Wood, White Industries, 
 Paul, Curtis Odom or classic Campagnolo hubs (Nuovo Record or Tipo); 
 and 
 Wheelsmith (out of production but still out there) or Sapim spokes. 
 Most of 
 my wheels are now 40 and 48 spoke, but I do have quite a few 36 and 
 even a 
 couple 32s.

 Laing
 Delray Beach FL

 On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:13:50 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> I could use a recommendation for a good wheel builder. I've used 
> prowheelbuilder.com in the past and have no complaints. Not sure 
> how I landed on them. Just curious if there is another business that 
> I 
> should be looking into? I'm located in Indianapolis as well, and 
> would 
> prefer sending business to a local or at least midwest company if 
> possible. 
>  
>
> I'm looking for a set of 700c wheels for my Atlantis. I'm thinking 
> I'll do velocity cliffhangers with a SON up front and a nice rear 
> hub. The 
> rear is not yet totally decided as I like quiet hubs but there are 
> not many 
> options in rim brake, 36-40h hubs these days. I've got an onyx silent 
> hub 
> on my crust and love it but they only go up to 32h and I'd prefer 36 
> or 40 
> as I'm a big dude. Which is why I'm thinking about a white industry 
> (loud 
> as they come) rear hub in 36 or 40h. 
>
> Anyway. I'd 

Re: [RBW] Headset adjustment

[Richard Rose]

Garth, sent you a pm.Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 6, 2023, at 7:36 PM, Garth  wrote:Okay, I see what's happening :)  Richard, the min insertion for a stem is always marked on the stem, and it's to the top of the lock nut. The min insertion line on my stems on hand range from 6.5cm for a relatively short Nitto quill adapter to 7.5cm for taller Genetic brand one. My tall Nitto Faceplatter stem is about 7cm. 2 cm below the lock nut is quite insufficient, as in "Danger Danger Will Robinson !" That "may" explain the wiggle, not being in far enough. When it's in to at least the min insertion line there should not be any wiggle at all, as in zero. Stems shouldn't move when tightened, like seatposts. If your stem isn't tall enough, tell me exactly which one you have. I have an unused Nitto HighRiser, the original ones Riv had made in 135mm extension @10 degree up and a 31.8 clamp that I'll see you if you need it. 31.8 to 25.4 shims are common.Those high risers with the long quill and positive rise are as tall as you're gonna get out of a one piece stem. If that isn't high enough then the bike is too small ! Buy hey, if you ride a 59 I'll sell you my unused original orange Susie if you like as it has a much taller stack than any other RIv model. Too tall for me, I'd need a negative 75d stem hah hah . If the stem still wiggles when inserted to proper depth then the steering tube is out of spec. If that's the case, Riv will help you out !  FWIW, I bought a VO Rando frame that arrived yesterday and today got an email stating the rear recessed brake holes were made too small. So yeah, "stuff happens" even with "professionals". 



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[RBW] Re: Roadini Shifting Problems

[Stephen]

Hi Cat, whereabouts new york are you? I'm in Brooklyn and would be down to 
help troubleshoot. I'm by no means a professional, but have done lots of 
futzing with my friction drivetrains and solving odd problems. 

-Stephen

On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 4:16:42 PM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:

> Hi Cat,
> Sorry to hear about your frustrations. The last time this happened to me, 
> I futzed with it for too long before giving up and replacing the cassette, 
> chain rings, and chain all together. That solved it. Just for the record: 
> you have replaced the cracked rim, yes?
>
> As for 1x, in my opinion you should keep the front derailer. Maybe just 
> don't shift the front for a while (until you're satisfied that everything 
> is working properly at the back).
> -Wes
>
> On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 7:04:57 PM UTC-7 Catherina Gioino wrote:
>
>> Hi RBW group!
>>
>> My name’s Cat and I posted a few months ago about an earlier iteration of 
>> the same problem I’m still having: my Roadini has had trouble shifting both 
>> front and rear since I first acquired it over a year ago. I purchased it 
>> from the original owner, who had built it up with nice Campy components-- 
>> some 
>> pictures of the initial setup and the current configuration are below.
>>
>> It’s set up 2x8, and at first, the front would barely shift to the small 
>> ring at all (often not at all), and the chain would pretty frequently jump 
>> off if I even lightly overshifted. Then, the rear wheel (Velocity A23) 
>> developed a series of large cracks on the rim.
>>
>> My partner and his dad (who both have Rivs and got me into this mess, 
>> haha) tried to fix the problems by first adjusting the limit screws, and 
>> when that only made things worse and we discovered the cracked rim, we put 
>> on a Shimano cassette, replaced the wheelset with a Shimano-compatible set 
>> of A23s, and replaced the chain, on the theory that the original chain was 
>> too narrow for the original Campy cassette, letting it slip between the 
>> rings. This marginally helped, but still didn’t solve the issues, so then I 
>> had my local bike shop put in a wider bottom bracket, because they noticed 
>> that the front crank was essentially scraping the front derailleur and 
>> couldn’t be adjusted any further— they suggested the bottom bracket 
>> replacement.
>>
>> This didn’t work because on my first real ride post the fixes, (on the 
>> OCA coming back from the Tappan Zee for that guy on a Homer who waved!) the 
>> front derailleur cage snapped. I was able to ride home, but now I need to 
>> at minimum replace my front derailleur, and while I’m at it, would like to 
>> fix the larger problems— the rear and front shifting. I love my bike, and 
>> tend to ride through issues, but it would be great to be able to shift 
>> properly. I’m wondering:
>>
>> 1) If anyone has any general or specific advice given what I’ve detailed, 
>> or any questions that might help diagnose the problem
>>
>> 2) If anyone in New York would be willing to come take a look at it and 
>> try to help figure out the problem— it could be a fun project, and I’m 
>> happy to provide refreshments :)
>>
>> 3) If I do need to switch the entire drivetrain, should I move to a 1x so 
>> I don’t run into more front derailleur problems? I tend to ride mostly in 
>> my higher gears anyway, so I could just move to a 1x with a wider-range 
>> cassette and stick with my 44 in front. I know 1x can come with its own 
>> issues, but this might be easier
>>
>> 4) I’m Italian, and so I have a slight but unavoidable aesthetic 
>> preference for sticking with Campy parts; does anyone have thoughts about 
>> how I might do this, or should I give up and switch to more standard 
>> Shimano or SRAM, which won’t look as nice but might function better
>>
>> Thanks so much for reading and for any help or advice! I’m kind of at a 
>> loss, and would love to ride my beloved Leo without worrying about whether 
>> my front derailleur will blow up again.
>>
>> Cat
>>
>> [image: IMG_1018.jpg][image: 715737051.jpg]
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Shifting Problems

[Wesley]

Hi Cat,
Sorry to hear about your frustrations. The last time this happened to me, I 
futzed with it for too long before giving up and replacing the cassette, 
chain rings, and chain all together. That solved it. Just for the record: 
you have replaced the cracked rim, yes?

As for 1x, in my opinion you should keep the front derailer. Maybe just 
don't shift the front for a while (until you're satisfied that everything 
is working properly at the back).
-Wes

On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 7:04:57 PM UTC-7 Catherina Gioino wrote:

> Hi RBW group!
>
> My name’s Cat and I posted a few months ago about an earlier iteration of 
> the same problem I’m still having: my Roadini has had trouble shifting both 
> front and rear since I first acquired it over a year ago. I purchased it 
> from the original owner, who had built it up with nice Campy components-- 
> some 
> pictures of the initial setup and the current configuration are below.
>
> It’s set up 2x8, and at first, the front would barely shift to the small 
> ring at all (often not at all), and the chain would pretty frequently jump 
> off if I even lightly overshifted. Then, the rear wheel (Velocity A23) 
> developed a series of large cracks on the rim.
>
> My partner and his dad (who both have Rivs and got me into this mess, 
> haha) tried to fix the problems by first adjusting the limit screws, and 
> when that only made things worse and we discovered the cracked rim, we put 
> on a Shimano cassette, replaced the wheelset with a Shimano-compatible set 
> of A23s, and replaced the chain, on the theory that the original chain was 
> too narrow for the original Campy cassette, letting it slip between the 
> rings. This marginally helped, but still didn’t solve the issues, so then I 
> had my local bike shop put in a wider bottom bracket, because they noticed 
> that the front crank was essentially scraping the front derailleur and 
> couldn’t be adjusted any further— they suggested the bottom bracket 
> replacement.
>
> This didn’t work because on my first real ride post the fixes, (on the OCA 
> coming back from the Tappan Zee for that guy on a Homer who waved!) the 
> front derailleur cage snapped. I was able to ride home, but now I need to 
> at minimum replace my front derailleur, and while I’m at it, would like to 
> fix the larger problems— the rear and front shifting. I love my bike, and 
> tend to ride through issues, but it would be great to be able to shift 
> properly. I’m wondering:
>
> 1) If anyone has any general or specific advice given what I’ve detailed, 
> or any questions that might help diagnose the problem
>
> 2) If anyone in New York would be willing to come take a look at it and 
> try to help figure out the problem— it could be a fun project, and I’m 
> happy to provide refreshments :)
>
> 3) If I do need to switch the entire drivetrain, should I move to a 1x so 
> I don’t run into more front derailleur problems? I tend to ride mostly in 
> my higher gears anyway, so I could just move to a 1x with a wider-range 
> cassette and stick with my 44 in front. I know 1x can come with its own 
> issues, but this might be easier
>
> 4) I’m Italian, and so I have a slight but unavoidable aesthetic 
> preference for sticking with Campy parts; does anyone have thoughts about 
> how I might do this, or should I give up and switch to more standard 
> Shimano or SRAM, which won’t look as nice but might function better
>
> Thanks so much for reading and for any help or advice! I’m kind of at a 
> loss, and would love to ride my beloved Leo without worrying about whether 
> my front derailleur will blow up again.
>
> Cat
>
> [image: IMG_1018.jpg][image: 715737051.jpg]
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 26” MTB Tire Advice

[Will Boericke]

Totally true. I put the wired tires on my son's bike and they're still
pretty amazing in terms of suppleness.  Better than most other mtb tires,
folding or non-

Will

On Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 3:12 PM DavidP  wrote:

> Will - It's a good price, just note that the K-guard version is wired vs
> the more expensive folding bead version.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 2:04:40 PM UTC-4 wboe...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> This Billy Bonkers
>> 
>> price is the best deal out there, IMO.
>>
>> Will
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 2:01 PM Bones  wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, I totally lost track of this. Thanks for the suggestions all. No,
>>> no sadly I do not have any friends with 26” tires hanging around. I guess
>>> I’m just looking for any good deals (sales, clearance, etc). I don’t have
>>> any number in mind, but I’d rather not shell out $70+ a tire for a bike
>>> that either way will not see much use. In southern NJ btw, outside of
>>> Philly.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Bones
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 10:07:16 AM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I’m a HUGE fan of the SimWorks Super Yummy. I’ve run them now on two
 bikes, 26” and 29” and can say they’re some of my favorite tires. They’re a
 bit pricier than other options, but they usually last me a year or two of
 almost daily riding (call it somewhere between 5-6k miles). They do pick up
 small pinholes from road debris once the center track wears down smooth but
 if you’re not running tubeless, or you use a good sealant (I like orange
 seal) they don’t cause any issue. They’re fast rolling on pavement and he’s
 pack dirt and they’ve got good cornering grip on both surfaces as well. I
 might advise against them on very muddy trails, but that never stopped me
 (see the attached…)



 On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 11:14 PM Nick Shoemaker 
 wrote:

> Good call - Ikon 2.2 is a goodie. Seems to last forever and was easier
> to mount tubeless than Schwalbes. I’d personally be sketched out with one
> on the front, but loved it as a rear tire in the summer.
>
>
> On Aug 25, 2023, at 11:03 PM, Hoch in ut  wrote:
>
> A good all-around tire is the Maxxis Ikon in 26 x 2.2. Rolls pretty
> fast and has decent grip. I love it for XC rides. I put a pair on a 90’s
> Stumpjumper a couple of years ago. Great tire. Not that expensive, either.
>
> On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 9:59:55 AM UTC-6 Bones wrote:
>
>> I recently pulled my wife’s old Cannondale F5 hardtail out of
>> hibernation with the intention of moving it along, but she now has a
>> renewed interest in it. It cleaned up nicely, but the tires are falling
>> apart. It looks like it can comfortably fit a 26x2.25, but I haven’t 
>> used a
>> 26” tire since the early 90’s so I don’t know where to start. If anyone 
>> can
>> point me to to a decent all around trail tire that doesn’t break the 
>> bank,
>> I’d greatly appreciate it.
>>
>> Bones
>>
> --
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> .
>
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 --
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Re: [RBW] Re: 26” MTB Tire Advice

[DavidP]

Will - It's a good price, just note that the K-guard version is wired vs 
the more expensive folding bead version.

-Dave

On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 2:04:40 PM UTC-4 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:

> This Billy Bonkers 
> 
>  
> price is the best deal out there, IMO.
>
> Will
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 2:01 PM Bones  wrote:
>
>> Wow, I totally lost track of this. Thanks for the suggestions all. No, no 
>> sadly I do not have any friends with 26” tires hanging around. I guess I’m 
>> just looking for any good deals (sales, clearance, etc). I don’t have any 
>> number in mind, but I’d rather not shell out $70+ a tire for a bike that 
>> either way will not see much use. In southern NJ btw, outside of Philly.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Bones
>>
>> On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 10:07:16 AM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m a HUGE fan of the SimWorks Super Yummy. I’ve run them now on two 
>>> bikes, 26” and 29” and can say they’re some of my favorite tires. They’re a 
>>> bit pricier than other options, but they usually last me a year or two of 
>>> almost daily riding (call it somewhere between 5-6k miles). They do pick up 
>>> small pinholes from road debris once the center track wears down smooth but 
>>> if you’re not running tubeless, or you use a good sealant (I like orange 
>>> seal) they don’t cause any issue. They’re fast rolling on pavement and he’s 
>>> pack dirt and they’ve got good cornering grip on both surfaces as well. I 
>>> might advise against them on very muddy trails, but that never stopped me 
>>> (see the attached…)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 11:14 PM Nick Shoemaker  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Good call - Ikon 2.2 is a goodie. Seems to last forever and was easier 
 to mount tubeless than Schwalbes. I’d personally be sketched out with one 
 on the front, but loved it as a rear tire in the summer.


 On Aug 25, 2023, at 11:03 PM, Hoch in ut  wrote:

 A good all-around tire is the Maxxis Ikon in 26 x 2.2. Rolls pretty 
 fast and has decent grip. I love it for XC rides. I put a pair on a 90’s 
 Stumpjumper a couple of years ago. Great tire. Not that expensive, either. 

 On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 9:59:55 AM UTC-6 Bones wrote:

> I recently pulled my wife’s old Cannondale F5 hardtail out of 
> hibernation with the intention of moving it along, but she now has a 
> renewed interest in it. It cleaned up nicely, but the tires are falling 
> apart. It looks like it can comfortably fit a 26x2.25, but I haven’t used 
> a 
> 26” tire since the early 90’s so I don’t know where to start. If anyone 
> can 
> point me to to a decent all around trail tire that doesn’t break the 
> bank, 
> I’d greatly appreciate it.
>
> Bones
>
 -- 
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 .

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 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

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 .

>>> -- 
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>>>
>> -- 
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> To view this discussion on the web visit 

Re: [RBW] Re: 26” MTB Tire Advice

[Will Boericke]

This Billy Bonkers

price is the best deal out there, IMO.

Will




On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 2:01 PM Bones  wrote:

> Wow, I totally lost track of this. Thanks for the suggestions all. No, no
> sadly I do not have any friends with 26” tires hanging around. I guess I’m
> just looking for any good deals (sales, clearance, etc). I don’t have any
> number in mind, but I’d rather not shell out $70+ a tire for a bike that
> either way will not see much use. In southern NJ btw, outside of Philly.
>
> Thanks!
> Bones
>
> On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 10:07:16 AM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I’m a HUGE fan of the SimWorks Super Yummy. I’ve run them now on two
>> bikes, 26” and 29” and can say they’re some of my favorite tires. They’re a
>> bit pricier than other options, but they usually last me a year or two of
>> almost daily riding (call it somewhere between 5-6k miles). They do pick up
>> small pinholes from road debris once the center track wears down smooth but
>> if you’re not running tubeless, or you use a good sealant (I like orange
>> seal) they don’t cause any issue. They’re fast rolling on pavement and he’s
>> pack dirt and they’ve got good cornering grip on both surfaces as well. I
>> might advise against them on very muddy trails, but that never stopped me
>> (see the attached…)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 11:14 PM Nick Shoemaker 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Good call - Ikon 2.2 is a goodie. Seems to last forever and was easier
>>> to mount tubeless than Schwalbes. I’d personally be sketched out with one
>>> on the front, but loved it as a rear tire in the summer.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 25, 2023, at 11:03 PM, Hoch in ut  wrote:
>>>
>>> A good all-around tire is the Maxxis Ikon in 26 x 2.2. Rolls pretty
>>> fast and has decent grip. I love it for XC rides. I put a pair on a 90’s
>>> Stumpjumper a couple of years ago. Great tire. Not that expensive, either.
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 9:59:55 AM UTC-6 Bones wrote:
>>>
 I recently pulled my wife’s old Cannondale F5 hardtail out of
 hibernation with the intention of moving it along, but she now has a
 renewed interest in it. It cleaned up nicely, but the tires are falling
 apart. It looks like it can comfortably fit a 26x2.25, but I haven’t used a
 26” tire since the early 90’s so I don’t know where to start. If anyone can
 point me to to a decent all around trail tire that doesn’t break the bank,
 I’d greatly appreciate it.

 Bones

>>> --
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>> --
>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
>> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 26” MTB Tire Advice

[Bones]

Wow, I totally lost track of this. Thanks for the suggestions all. No, no 
sadly I do not have any friends with 26” tires hanging around. I guess I’m 
just looking for any good deals (sales, clearance, etc). I don’t have any 
number in mind, but I’d rather not shell out $70+ a tire for a bike that 
either way will not see much use. In southern NJ btw, outside of Philly.

Thanks!
Bones

On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 10:07:16 AM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> I’m a HUGE fan of the SimWorks Super Yummy. I’ve run them now on two 
> bikes, 26” and 29” and can say they’re some of my favorite tires. They’re a 
> bit pricier than other options, but they usually last me a year or two of 
> almost daily riding (call it somewhere between 5-6k miles). They do pick up 
> small pinholes from road debris once the center track wears down smooth but 
> if you’re not running tubeless, or you use a good sealant (I like orange 
> seal) they don’t cause any issue. They’re fast rolling on pavement and he’s 
> pack dirt and they’ve got good cornering grip on both surfaces as well. I 
> might advise against them on very muddy trails, but that never stopped me 
> (see the attached…)
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 11:14 PM Nick Shoemaker  
> wrote:
>
>> Good call - Ikon 2.2 is a goodie. Seems to last forever and was easier to 
>> mount tubeless than Schwalbes. I’d personally be sketched out with one on 
>> the front, but loved it as a rear tire in the summer.
>>
>>
>> On Aug 25, 2023, at 11:03 PM, Hoch in ut  wrote:
>>
>> A good all-around tire is the Maxxis Ikon in 26 x 2.2. Rolls pretty fast 
>> and has decent grip. I love it for XC rides. I put a pair on a 90’s 
>> Stumpjumper a couple of years ago. Great tire. Not that expensive, either. 
>>
>> On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 9:59:55 AM UTC-6 Bones wrote:
>>
>>> I recently pulled my wife’s old Cannondale F5 hardtail out of 
>>> hibernation with the intention of moving it along, but she now has a 
>>> renewed interest in it. It cleaned up nicely, but the tires are falling 
>>> apart. It looks like it can comfortably fit a 26x2.25, but I haven’t used a 
>>> 26” tire since the early 90’s so I don’t know where to start. If anyone can 
>>> point me to to a decent all around trail tire that doesn’t break the bank, 
>>> I’d greatly appreciate it.
>>>
>>> Bones
>>>
>> -- 
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>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> .
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/341a6b28-2fa7-4d2a-a5e6-93b02711ed11n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>

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Re: [RBW] Headset adjustment

[Bill Lindsay]

Garth said: "there should not be any wiggle at all, as in zero. Stems 
shouldn't move when tightened, like seatposts."

This is just not the case.  Quill stems are not like seat posts*.  
*Threadless* stems are more like seat posts.  With quill stems the stem HAS 
to be undersized so you can get it inserted in the first place.  The 
"clamping" interface is sunk down deep, so there's still slop up top.  With 
seat posts and threadless stems the clamping interface is up top.  

A small amount of wiggle is normal.  The less there is, the better, to be 
sure.  

*There was a small historical anomaly where seat posts are like quill 
stems: Briefly the seat post maker SR made a seat post briefly that clamped 
with a wedge like a quill stem.  It was OEM on some bikes in the 1980s. 
 Google "Schwinn 564" and click "Images" and you'll see one of those 
models.  That Allen bolt in the side of the seat post actuated the wedge. 
 It was terrible.  The seat post creaked because of the wiggle.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 4:36:14 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> Okay, I see what's happening :)  Richard, the min insertion for a stem is 
> always marked on the stem, and it's to the top of the lock nut. The min 
> insertion line on my stems on hand range from 6.5cm for a relatively short 
> Nitto quill adapter to 7.5cm for taller Genetic brand one. My tall Nitto 
> Faceplatter stem is about 7cm. 
>
> 2 cm below the lock nut is quite insufficient, as in "Danger Danger Will 
> Robinson !" That "may" explain the wiggle, not being in far enough. When 
> it's in to at least the min insertion line there should not be any wiggle 
> at all, as in zero. Stems shouldn't move when tightened, like seatposts. 
>
> If your stem isn't tall enough, tell me exactly which one you have. I have 
> an unused Nitto HighRiser, the original ones Riv had made in 135mm 
> extension @10 degree up and a 31.8 clamp that I'll see you if you need it. 
> 31.8 to 25.4 shims are common.Those high risers with the long quill and 
> positive rise are as tall as you're gonna get out of a one piece stem. If 
> that isn't high enough then the bike is too small ! Buy hey, if you ride a 
> 59 I'll sell you my unused original orange Susie if you like as it has a 
> much taller stack than any other RIv model. Too tall for me, I'd need a 
> negative 75d stem hah hah . 
>
> If the stem still wiggles when inserted to proper depth then the steering 
> tube is out of spec. If that's the case, Riv will help you out !  
>
>
> FWIW, I bought a VO Rando frame that arrived yesterday and today got an 
> email stating the rear recessed brake holes were made too small. So yeah, 
> "stuff happens" even with "professionals". 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Build Day! Two Speed Road Bike

[EGNolan]

Anxiously Awaiting photos for APPROVAL.

; )

Eric
Indpls

On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 11:55:58 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Three random events triggered a rebuild of my Romulus drivetrain:
>
> 1. Blue Lug instagram photo of Grant with his 3x1 Platypus
> 2. Joe Bernard desperately wanting to get rid of a Paul Melvin
> 3. George coming through with an 18T single White Industries Freewheel 
> when I offered to raid your parts box
>
> Because of the above, I decided to remove:
>
> Campy Centaur crankset with 39/24 rings
> White Dos Eno 16/18 FW
> FSA front derailleur
> Deore XT springless rear derailleur
>
> What went on was/is:
>
> Ritchey/Sugino 172.5 cranks with 46/36/24 rings
> 18T White Industries FW
> Shimano Deerhead front derailleur
> Paul Melvin
>
> So now it's a three-speed road bike, with gears of 70, 55 and 37 inches. 
>  The Paul Melvin documentation says it'll take up 20 teeth, but it seems 
> fine here at 22 teeth.  I'll add photos to the album.  This is really close 
> to what I would probably do on a Roaduno.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 10:06:29 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> I pounced on a local 59cm Romulus.  That bike has long been on my list of 
>> "I'd ride THAT" bikes, but it wasn't a terribly high priority.  This 
>> opportunity presented itself and got to work.  
>>
>> Cutting to the chase: here's the album  
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720310604809
>>
>> The bike was a mostly original Riv complete Rom build.  It had a mustache 
>> bar cockpit, and Silver bar con shifters, but otherwise was pretty much 
>> stock.  It's got nicks and scratches beau-sage but was in mechanically fine 
>> shape.  
>>
>> This is going to be a versatile road platform upon which I could 
>> implement a number of different build concepts.  The one that had been 
>> sticking in my mind, though, was a front-derailleur only road two speed. 
>>  The forthcoming Roaduno is allegedly going to have both a rear der hanger 
>> as well as the braze on bits to do a FRONT shifter.  Some listers vocally 
>> proclaimed that "silly", but it seems pretty sensible to me.  I had not 
>> executed a build of that kind, and this was my shot.  
>>
>> From "inventory" I pulled together a nice two speed road bike kit:
>>
>> The wheelset was "inherited" from my Crust Florida Man., which lives in 
>> Michigan.  When I built that bike, I used stuff I had on-hand, including a 
>> pair of HED Belgium rims.  Those are almost impossible to get anymore, so I 
>> built a new set of wheels around cheaper and wider rims to bring that 
>> wheelset back to California.  I just grabbed them off the hook.  I put a 
>> pair of used Compass Steilacoom 700x38 knobbier on there (with latex 
>> tubes!) and grabbed a 16/18 DOS ENO freewheel.  The rear hub is Surly Ultra 
>> New.  The front is a Phil Track hub.  I tossed on a pair of Shimano 
>> "CLICKR" SPD pedals.  
>>
>> The drivetrain centers on a Campy Centaur 172.5mm square taper cranks
>> Origin8 sealed BB (110.5)
>> blue chain guard
>> 39T tripleizer ring
>> 24T ring from the original Rom build
>>
>> The front derailleur is a heavily modified FSA that I had from earlier 
>> experiments.  The shift lever is a Shimano Ultegra "triple-color" model 
>> from he 1990s with an awesome return spring inside to make it really light 
>> action.  The tensioner is a modified XT rapid rise.  There's no return 
>> spring inside, from a desmodromic exploration.  I was able to adjust one 
>> limit screw so it hits the 16T cog.  The other limit screw was too short, 
>> so I replaced it with a long socket head M4x0.7mm bolt.  I can turn that 
>> one with my fingers.  Dialed out the RD "falls" to the 18T cog.  Dialed in 
>> I can push it to the 16.  
>>
>> The cockpit includes other parts box items.  I got the Salsa stem really 
>> cheap only to find it's like 25.8mm in clamp diameter.  I was waiting for a 
>> working-class build to force it to 26.0mm.  I spread it wide and got a 
>> 420mm Nitto Noodle in there.  I used the stock brake levers and some orange 
>> Newbaums.  I kept the original Nitto 65 seat post and installed the Brooks 
>> Pro saddle reclaimed from "Shawn's Hetchins".  
>>
>> Now it's ready to ride (after the shellac dries).  Maybe this will 
>> inspire some of the Roaduno builds later this year.  Enjoy
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New Build Day! Two Speed Road Bike

[Bill Lindsay]

Three random events triggered a rebuild of my Romulus drivetrain:

1. Blue Lug instagram photo of Grant with his 3x1 Platypus
2. Joe Bernard desperately wanting to get rid of a Paul Melvin
3. George coming through with an 18T single White Industries Freewheel when 
I offered to raid your parts box

Because of the above, I decided to remove:

Campy Centaur crankset with 39/24 rings
White Dos Eno 16/18 FW
FSA front derailleur
Deore XT springless rear derailleur

What went on was/is:

Ritchey/Sugino 172.5 cranks with 46/36/24 rings
18T White Industries FW
Shimano Deerhead front derailleur
Paul Melvin

So now it's a three-speed road bike, with gears of 70, 55 and 37 inches. 
 The Paul Melvin documentation says it'll take up 20 teeth, but it seems 
fine here at 22 teeth.  I'll add photos to the album.  This is really close 
to what I would probably do on a Roaduno.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 10:06:29 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I pounced on a local 59cm Romulus.  That bike has long been on my list of 
> "I'd ride THAT" bikes, but it wasn't a terribly high priority.  This 
> opportunity presented itself and got to work.  
>
> Cutting to the chase: here's the album  
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720310604809
>
> The bike was a mostly original Riv complete Rom build.  It had a mustache 
> bar cockpit, and Silver bar con shifters, but otherwise was pretty much 
> stock.  It's got nicks and scratches beau-sage but was in mechanically fine 
> shape.  
>
> This is going to be a versatile road platform upon which I could implement 
> a number of different build concepts.  The one that had been sticking in my 
> mind, though, was a front-derailleur only road two speed.  The forthcoming 
> Roaduno is allegedly going to have both a rear der hanger as well as the 
> braze on bits to do a FRONT shifter.  Some listers vocally proclaimed that 
> "silly", but it seems pretty sensible to me.  I had not executed a build of 
> that kind, and this was my shot.  
>
> From "inventory" I pulled together a nice two speed road bike kit:
>
> The wheelset was "inherited" from my Crust Florida Man., which lives in 
> Michigan.  When I built that bike, I used stuff I had on-hand, including a 
> pair of HED Belgium rims.  Those are almost impossible to get anymore, so I 
> built a new set of wheels around cheaper and wider rims to bring that 
> wheelset back to California.  I just grabbed them off the hook.  I put a 
> pair of used Compass Steilacoom 700x38 knobbier on there (with latex 
> tubes!) and grabbed a 16/18 DOS ENO freewheel.  The rear hub is Surly Ultra 
> New.  The front is a Phil Track hub.  I tossed on a pair of Shimano 
> "CLICKR" SPD pedals.  
>
> The drivetrain centers on a Campy Centaur 172.5mm square taper cranks
> Origin8 sealed BB (110.5)
> blue chain guard
> 39T tripleizer ring
> 24T ring from the original Rom build
>
> The front derailleur is a heavily modified FSA that I had from earlier 
> experiments.  The shift lever is a Shimano Ultegra "triple-color" model 
> from he 1990s with an awesome return spring inside to make it really light 
> action.  The tensioner is a modified XT rapid rise.  There's no return 
> spring inside, from a desmodromic exploration.  I was able to adjust one 
> limit screw so it hits the 16T cog.  The other limit screw was too short, 
> so I replaced it with a long socket head M4x0.7mm bolt.  I can turn that 
> one with my fingers.  Dialed out the RD "falls" to the 18T cog.  Dialed in 
> I can push it to the 16.  
>
> The cockpit includes other parts box items.  I got the Salsa stem really 
> cheap only to find it's like 25.8mm in clamp diameter.  I was waiting for a 
> working-class build to force it to 26.0mm.  I spread it wide and got a 
> 420mm Nitto Noodle in there.  I used the stock brake levers and some orange 
> Newbaums.  I kept the original Nitto 65 seat post and installed the Brooks 
> Pro saddle reclaimed from "Shawn's Hetchins".  
>
> Now it's ready to ride (after the shellac dries).  Maybe this will inspire 
> some of the Roaduno builds later this year.  Enjoy
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Sugino XD2 triple crank arms 170mm

[Bill Lindsay]

The crankset is sold.  

On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 8:08:20 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I just bought a lovely Romulus complete.  It came complete from Riv in the 
> early part of this century and Riv's standard build included 170mm crank 
> arms.  I'm a devoted 172.5mm guy so I switched them out.  The rings were 
> pretty toast, so I'm selling just the arms with no rings.  $60 shipped 
> anywhere a USPS small Priority box will go.  These have a cute retro early 
> 2000s logo but the same "XD2L" and "XD2R" forgings we all recognize.  
>
> Photos on Flickr are here:  
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53168928440
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53167903302
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53168928430
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53168928420
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53167903322
>
> If you've got a budget road build coming up, or have unconventional ring 
> choices coming, these may be what you want.  As, always, I'd trade for 
> 172.5mm and put them in my inventory.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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Re: [RBW] Craigslist, etc 2023

[Elisabeth Sherwood]

FYI: 56cm Atlantis frameset in Northern Virginia.  (Not mine...)

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/bik/d/arlington-rivendell-atlantis-56cm/7663165663.html

-- Liz




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[RBW] Re: Roadini Shifting Problems

[Bill Lindsay]

It's clear to me that your bike needs to spend some time in the stand with 
a good mechanic -AND- with a good build-curator.  It would be nice if both 
those people were the same person, but the skillsets are definitely 
distinct from one-another.  A good mechanic can get the best out of what 
you have.  A good build-curator can see the mistakes previously made in a 
build, and will know what needs to be discarded and kept to get you to a 
better build configuration.  

The lousy front shifting seems to me that a poor choice was made with the 
combination of the crankset, front shifter, front derailleur and chain. 
 One or more of those parts were a poor choice.  That whole combo needs to 
be rethought, especially since your front derailleur is toast.  

2x8 seems to be a mistake as well, given that the rear derailleur in the 
photo is not an 8sp rear derailleur.  That should be rethought also

I worry that your replacement Shimano wheel set on a Campy bike was also a 
step in the wrong direction.  

The entire build needs a rethink, IMO.  My guess is that the initial build 
was executed on a faulty build concept.  Hopefully you can keep most of 
what's there, but the whole build concept needs a reboot, IMO.  Build 
concepts are free, thankfully.  Executing a build is usually not free (but 
sometimes it is!).

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA
On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 7:04:57 PM UTC-7 Catherina Gioino wrote:

> Hi RBW group!
>
> My name’s Cat and I posted a few months ago about an earlier iteration of 
> the same problem I’m still having: my Roadini has had trouble shifting both 
> front and rear since I first acquired it over a year ago. I purchased it 
> from the original owner, who had built it up with nice Campy components-- 
> some 
> pictures of the initial setup and the current configuration are below.
>
> It’s set up 2x8, and at first, the front would barely shift to the small 
> ring at all (often not at all), and the chain would pretty frequently jump 
> off if I even lightly overshifted. Then, the rear wheel (Velocity A23) 
> developed a series of large cracks on the rim.
>
> My partner and his dad (who both have Rivs and got me into this mess, 
> haha) tried to fix the problems by first adjusting the limit screws, and 
> when that only made things worse and we discovered the cracked rim, we put 
> on a Shimano cassette, replaced the wheelset with a Shimano-compatible set 
> of A23s, and replaced the chain, on the theory that the original chain was 
> too narrow for the original Campy cassette, letting it slip between the 
> rings. This marginally helped, but still didn’t solve the issues, so then I 
> had my local bike shop put in a wider bottom bracket, because they noticed 
> that the front crank was essentially scraping the front derailleur and 
> couldn’t be adjusted any further— they suggested the bottom bracket 
> replacement.
>
> This didn’t work because on my first real ride post the fixes, (on the OCA 
> coming back from the Tappan Zee for that guy on a Homer who waved!) the 
> front derailleur cage snapped. I was able to ride home, but now I need to 
> at minimum replace my front derailleur, and while I’m at it, would like to 
> fix the larger problems— the rear and front shifting. I love my bike, and 
> tend to ride through issues, but it would be great to be able to shift 
> properly. I’m wondering:
>
> 1) If anyone has any general or specific advice given what I’ve detailed, 
> or any questions that might help diagnose the problem
>
> 2) If anyone in New York would be willing to come take a look at it and 
> try to help figure out the problem— it could be a fun project, and I’m 
> happy to provide refreshments :)
>
> 3) If I do need to switch the entire drivetrain, should I move to a 1x so 
> I don’t run into more front derailleur problems? I tend to ride mostly in 
> my higher gears anyway, so I could just move to a 1x with a wider-range 
> cassette and stick with my 44 in front. I know 1x can come with its own 
> issues, but this might be easier
>
> 4) I’m Italian, and so I have a slight but unavoidable aesthetic 
> preference for sticking with Campy parts; does anyone have thoughts about 
> how I might do this, or should I give up and switch to more standard 
> Shimano or SRAM, which won’t look as nice but might function better
>
> Thanks so much for reading and for any help or advice! I’m kind of at a 
> loss, and would love to ride my beloved Leo without worrying about whether 
> my front derailleur will blow up again.
>
> Cat
>
> [image: IMG_1018.jpg][image: 715737051.jpg]
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Headset adjustment

[Richard Rose]

I think you are correct - after all this! I now think the movement is just the flex of the exposed quill allowed by the hole of the locknut being just a bit larger than it could/should be.Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 7, 2023, at 3:11 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote:Checked my Face Plater in my custom, it shows the same gap as in your video with the same movement..I never knew! I think it's a tall quill stem being yanked by wide bars (Boscos in my case) and these are the results. I'm going to keep riding it as is. On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 12:07:36 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:Greetings folks. I would appreciate any input regarding this. Since new I have had some movement in my headset / stem that concerns me, possibly unnecessarily so? Please review the attached video link and tell me what you see. I felt the headset was a bit loose so tightened it a bit. This made no difference. The minimum insertion line for the Faceplater stem is a full two centimeters below the headset lock nut. So, the question seems to be is this stem quill movement excessive &  if so how to eliminate it. I do mind the inherent flex. It no doubt contributes to the comfort of the bike? I just want to be certain it is safe and causing no harm.I appreciate your help.Richardhttps://photos.app.goo.gl/ZXVZBrQEVzamDV1H6



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Re: [RBW] Roadini Shifting Problems

[Garth]

Well good for you Cat for wanting to stick with Campy parts :)))   I too 
have an affinity for Italian bike parts and cycling clothing especially. 

Do check the rear derailleur hanger alignment for rear shifting issues. 
Seeing this was a used frame, hangers can easily get wacked if moved around 
in tight places. 

Along the lines of what Patrick and Michael well expressed, I do remember 
on Campy Nuovo/Super Record straight arm cranks that the FD relation to the 
arms is a delicate and close one by design. It appears what's needed is 
either a fine tuning/adjustment vertically/horizontally of the existing FD, 
or if it's still hitting the crank, try a vintage Campy. Looking the pic of 
FD on your bike I can see the cage has quite a contour to the inner plate. 
The vintage ones had no such contour.  I have two Nuovo/Record models plus 
a Victory, and they all are of the era where the crank arms were straight 
and clearances tight. These can found NOS or lightly used on places like 
ebay and such. Even the Victory model shifts great. I measured the inner 
plate width on all three of my Campy FD's and they measure about 11mm in 
the middle. I have a couple 105 FD from 1999 that measure 12mm inside but 
the overall cage width is much wider as the inner cage has substantial lip 
to it sticking out, whereas the Campy are very slight. I also have a 
vintage "endless band" Suntour Superbe Pro FD from the mid 80's that 
measures 10mm inside, and the cage is shorter in length than any other FD's 
of that era. I know those would work since with the narrow and short cage, 
you have less concern with the tail of the FD hitting anything. With an 
8-speed hub you may have to trim the FD more as the chain angle in the 
first/large cassette cog is greater than with a 7-speed. No big deal. 

A 1x drivetrain doesn't solve anything, it just "shifts... hah hah" ... the 
blame... so to speak. Don't give up so easy !!! It'll work ! 
On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 2:58:33 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I agree with Patrick that your Veloce FD didn't like the vintage-ish 
> cranks you're using. The rear shifting (I remember you're using Silver 
> friction bar-ends) should be fine with that 8-speed cassette and an 8- or 
> 9-speed chain. 
>
> 1x would probably work for the kind of gearing you like but yes, you'd be 
> swapping everything and most of that stuff is wy uglier than your Campy 
> bits. I don't know enough about all that to give recommendations. 
>
> On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 9:13:20 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Catharina: Without seeing your drivetrain more clearly I can't offer 
>> anything of great insight, but the following FWIW:
>>
>> 1. The technology required by 2X8 drivetrains is so mature now that they 
>> are almost as durable and reliable as single speeds, at least if you are 
>> using friction shifting. If properly set up, just about any FD can shift 
>> from big to small ring without throwing the chain over either ring. I see 
>> that your bike has a Shimano cassette and Veloce RD; I take it that you 
>> shift in friction? 
>>
>> And I surmise that your FD broke because it got caught by the right 
>> crankarm while you were pedaling hard?
>>
>> Front derailleur setup can be a bit finicky, but it's not rocket science 
>> and I'd take care to have the FD just ~1/4" above the big ring and to play 
>> with the lateral angle of the cage by adjusting the clamp as it rotates 
>> around the seat tube until the cage is perfectly aligned fore-and-aft with 
>> the chain/chainring. Even a wee bit off-angle can cause shifting worries. 
>> All this after getting the proper bb spindle length* and adjusting the 
>> limit screws properly. *The bb spindle length should be chosen for proper 
>> chain line -- chain on big ring straight to #4 cog, chain on small ring 
>> straight to #5 cog -- while giving the minimum sufficient gaps between 
>> chainrings and right chainstay. All this done, any crank from the last 40 
>> years ought to clear any FD from the last 40 years.
>>
>> Unless you are using a modern FD with wide, shaped cage with a 1970s 
>> Record crank? I can't tell from the photo what the crank and FD are, but 
>> the crank looks to be an old one without arm flare ... if so, it might not 
>> clear a modern wide-cage mtb FD even with proper setup and properly sized 
>> bb spindle; in which case -- assuming you don't want to swap the crank for 
>> a modern flared-arm style -- you need a narrow cage FD; any road FD ought 
>> to work fine, especially since you have only 8 cogs in back.
>>
>> I would not use bb spindle length to adjust FD cage contact with the 
>> crank arm and I'm surprised that a professional bike shop would do that. 
>> Choose the bb spindle length to put the rings into proper alignment with #4 
>> and #5 cogs and allow 2-3 mm minimum clearance against the chainstay, and 
>> any modern crank ought to clear any modern (last 40 years) straight cage FD 
>> cage just fine. There are 

[RBW] Re: Headset adjustment

[Joe Bernard]

Checked my Face Plater in my custom, it shows the same gap as in your video 
with the same movement..I never knew! I think it's a tall quill stem being 
yanked by wide bars (Boscos in my case) and these are the results. I'm 
going to keep riding it as is. 

On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 12:07:36 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Greetings folks. I would appreciate any input regarding this. Since new I 
> have had some movement in my headset / stem that concerns me, possibly 
> unnecessarily so? Please review the attached video link and tell me what 
> you see. I felt the headset was a bit loose so tightened it a bit. This 
> made no difference. The minimum insertion line for the Faceplater stem is a 
> full two centimeters below the headset lock nut. So, the question seems to 
> be is this stem quill movement excessive &  if so how to eliminate it. I do 
> mind the inherent flex. It no doubt contributes to the comfort of the bike? 
> I just want to be certain it is safe and causing no harm.
> I appreciate your help.
> Richard
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZXVZBrQEVzamDV1H6
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Roadini Shifting Problems

[Joe Bernard]

I agree with Patrick that your Veloce FD didn't like the vintage-ish cranks 
you're using. The rear shifting (I remember you're using Silver friction 
bar-ends) should be fine with that 8-speed cassette and an 8- or 9-speed 
chain. 

1x would probably work for the kind of gearing you like but yes, you'd be 
swapping everything and most of that stuff is wy uglier than your Campy 
bits. I don't know enough about all that to give recommendations. 

On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 9:13:20 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Catharina: Without seeing your drivetrain more clearly I can't offer 
> anything of great insight, but the following FWIW:
>
> 1. The technology required by 2X8 drivetrains is so mature now that they 
> are almost as durable and reliable as single speeds, at least if you are 
> using friction shifting. If properly set up, just about any FD can shift 
> from big to small ring without throwing the chain over either ring. I see 
> that your bike has a Shimano cassette and Veloce RD; I take it that you 
> shift in friction? 
>
> And I surmise that your FD broke because it got caught by the right 
> crankarm while you were pedaling hard?
>
> Front derailleur setup can be a bit finicky, but it's not rocket science 
> and I'd take care to have the FD just ~1/4" above the big ring and to play 
> with the lateral angle of the cage by adjusting the clamp as it rotates 
> around the seat tube until the cage is perfectly aligned fore-and-aft with 
> the chain/chainring. Even a wee bit off-angle can cause shifting worries. 
> All this after getting the proper bb spindle length* and adjusting the 
> limit screws properly. *The bb spindle length should be chosen for proper 
> chain line -- chain on big ring straight to #4 cog, chain on small ring 
> straight to #5 cog -- while giving the minimum sufficient gaps between 
> chainrings and right chainstay. All this done, any crank from the last 40 
> years ought to clear any FD from the last 40 years.
>
> Unless you are using a modern FD with wide, shaped cage with a 1970s 
> Record crank? I can't tell from the photo what the crank and FD are, but 
> the crank looks to be an old one without arm flare ... if so, it might not 
> clear a modern wide-cage mtb FD even with proper setup and properly sized 
> bb spindle; in which case -- assuming you don't want to swap the crank for 
> a modern flared-arm style -- you need a narrow cage FD; any road FD ought 
> to work fine, especially since you have only 8 cogs in back.
>
> I would not use bb spindle length to adjust FD cage contact with the crank 
> arm and I'm surprised that a professional bike shop would do that. Choose 
> the bb spindle length to put the rings into proper alignment with #4 and #5 
> cogs and allow 2-3 mm minimum clearance against the chainstay, and any 
> modern crank ought to clear any modern (last 40 years) straight cage FD 
> cage just fine. There are some exceptions where there is not enough gap 
> between outer/big chainring and inside of right crankarm for modern FD 
> cages, but AFAIK that has never happened with any Campy FD or any crank, 
> Campy or otherwise, from the last 50 years.
>
> 2. Viva Italia! (Not referring to the political party.) My daughter spent 
> her junior year abroad in Florence and shared many photos and experiences 
> with me, which I heartily enjoyed. But 8-speed Shimano Dura Ace is pretty 
> darned pretty!
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 8:05 PM Catherina Gioino  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi RBW group!
>>
>> My name’s Cat and I posted a few months ago about an earlier iteration of 
>> the same problem I’m still having: my Roadini has had trouble shifting both 
>> front and rear since I first acquired it over a year ago. I purchased it 
>> from the original owner, who had built it up with nice Campy components-- 
>> some 
>> pictures of the initial setup and the current configuration are below.
>>
>> It’s set up 2x8, and at first, the front would barely shift to the small 
>> ring at all (often not at all), and the chain would pretty frequently jump 
>> off if I even lightly overshifted. Then, the rear wheel (Velocity A23) 
>> developed a series of large cracks on the rim.
>>
>> My partner and his dad (who both have Rivs and got me into this mess, 
>> haha) tried to fix the problems by first adjusting the limit screws, and 
>> when that only made things worse and we discovered the cracked rim, we put 
>> on a Shimano cassette, replaced the wheelset with a Shimano-compatible set 
>> of A23s, and replaced the chain, on the theory that the original chain was 
>> too narrow for the original Campy cassette, letting it slip between the 
>> rings. This marginally helped, but still didn’t solve the issues, so then I 
>> had my local bike shop put in a wider bottom bracket, because they noticed 
>> that the front crank was essentially scraping the front derailleur and 
>> couldn’t be adjusted any further— they suggested the bottom bracket 
>> replacement.
>>
>> This didn’t work