Re: [RBW] Albastache + brifters

2017-01-13 Thread Ash A 

Hi Mark,

Reg seat position, DOH!  Apparently while struggling to install the saddle 
I turned the seat post around!  Didn't ever realize.  I felt like something 
was wrong, but figured it is something to do with the handlebar experiment. 
 Thanks for that.

Appreciate you alerting me about the stem position.  I had read Sheldon's 
article a while ago.  While tweaking the Bianchi I had totally forgotten 
about it.  The Bianchi is for sale, however, I will pull the stem slightly 
up for the safety of the next owner.

Cheers,

-Ash 


On Saturday, 7 January 2017 10:58:13 UTC-8, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Hi Ash. Before you make the seat adjustment, you may want to turn the 
> seatpost around to its proper position. You have your saddle slammed all 
> the way back already, but your seatpost is facing the wrong way.
>
> Also, like Patrick, I would also question the safety of that setup, but 
> for a different reason. If, as you say, the extender is inserted fully, 
> that is a mighty short head tube, and you may be creating this situation, 
> described here by Sheldon Brown:
>
> Danger! 
>
> *Note:* Steerers  
> are butted  at the 
> bottom, so the hole in the steerer is constant-diameter until near the 
> bottom, then the walls taper inward in the butted section. 
>
> It is *vitally important* that 
> *the steerer extender (or stem) is not inserted so far that the wedge is 
> installed where the steerer is narrowing, or it could come loose 
> unpredictably. *
>
>
> When this happens, only the edge/corner of the quill or wedge contacts the 
> steerer, and it is trying to "grab" a slanted surface. 
>
> This is sometimes a problem on smaller frames if you try to insert the 
> stem or a stem extender too far down into the steerer. 
>
> The stem may also loosen unexpectedly if the steerer has been bulged out 
> by overtightening the expander or wedge.
>
> [image: Stem Inserted Too Far]
>
>
>
> I highly suspect that your Raleigh setup may fall under the above 
> scenario. Even on flats at 15mph, having your handlebars disconnect can be 
> disconcerting.
>
>
> On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 6:08:35 PM UTC-5, Ash A wrote:
>>
>> Rode the Raleigh 21 miles to work today.  My neck is not a happy camper 
>> today.  Can't wait to ride like I want to ride once the Appaloosa arrives!
>>
>> I'm going to try the seat adjustment you suggested before I ride back.
>>
>>
>> Here's picture of the Raleigh (more 
>> https://goo.gl/photos/Ha4YXYY7WoPgZgVw8)
>>
>>
>> -Ash
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 07:04:21 UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Please post photos of the built Appaloosa and of the Ace. The Appaloosa 
>>> is one of the Rivs I'd like to own, along with (in order of seriousness) 
>>> the Roadeo, the Hunq, the Atlantis, and the Legolas. The A would come in 
>>> about here.
>>>
>>> And who doesn't want to own a new/old Raleigh?
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Albastache + brifters

2017-01-07 Thread 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch 
Hi Ash. Before you make the seat adjustment, you may want to turn the 
seatpost around to its proper position. You have your saddle slammed all 
the way back already, but your seatpost is facing the wrong way.

Also, like Patrick, I would also question the safety of that setup, but for 
a different reason. If, as you say, the extender is inserted fully, that is 
a mighty short head tube, and you may be creating this situation, described 
here by Sheldon Brown:

Danger! 

*Note:* Steerers  are 
butted  at the bottom, 
so the hole in the steerer is constant-diameter until near the bottom, then 
the walls taper inward in the butted section. 

It is *vitally important* that 
*the steerer extender (or stem) is not inserted so far that the wedge is 
installed where the steerer is narrowing, or it could come loose 
unpredictably. *


When this happens, only the edge/corner of the quill or wedge contacts the 
steerer, and it is trying to "grab" a slanted surface. 

This is sometimes a problem on smaller frames if you try to insert the stem 
or a stem extender too far down into the steerer. 

The stem may also loosen unexpectedly if the steerer has been bulged out by 
overtightening the expander or wedge.

[image: Stem Inserted Too Far]



I highly suspect that your Raleigh setup may fall under the above scenario. 
Even on flats at 15mph, having your handlebars disconnect can be 
disconcerting.


On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 6:08:35 PM UTC-5, Ash A wrote:
>
> Rode the Raleigh 21 miles to work today.  My neck is not a happy camper 
> today.  Can't wait to ride like I want to ride once the Appaloosa arrives!
>
> I'm going to try the seat adjustment you suggested before I ride back.
>
>
> Here's picture of the Raleigh (more 
> https://goo.gl/photos/Ha4YXYY7WoPgZgVw8)
>
>
> -Ash
>
>
> On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 07:04:21 UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Please post photos of the built Appaloosa and of the Ace. The Appaloosa 
>> is one of the Rivs I'd like to own, along with (in order of seriousness) 
>> the Roadeo, the Hunq, the Atlantis, and the Legolas. The A would come in 
>> about here.
>>
>> And who doesn't want to own a new/old Raleigh?
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Albastache + brifters

2017-01-06 Thread Bill in Roswell GA 
Ash,

Great that you ordered an Appa, but no reason to put the old horse out to 
pasture when there is really nothing wrong with the bike other than it has 
not been setup to fit your current situation. 

I had a neck problem develop after sitting at a computer for years combined 
with riding a racing setup with bars well below saddle. My neck could no 
longer take being in the "crane neck" position. 
 After much research about bike fit and discovering that traditionally 
cyclists did not ride a racing setup but used what is now referred to as a 
French Fit.That helped me learn how to make most properly sized frames bit 
me comfortably. Properly size frame, stem length/angle to get 
proper/comfortable position on bike. Saddle position is much more a 
personal preference and should not be used in an attempt to get a bike to 
fit and even then, saddle shape and angle have a lot to do with being 
comfortable.

That is to say, your bars are too low, partly because the stem is flipped 
into the downward position. That stem is a 6 degree stem, so flipping it 
over will raise the bars a few mm.
 Using a 17 degree rise stem would raise your bars a good bit. You could 
even get a longish 25 degree rise stem that would give the dirt drop stem 
effect. There are online stem calculators that will give you the amount of 
vertical and horizontal difference that stem length/rise can give. 

Enjoy the new Appa with Alba bars, but make the Raleigh fit properly with 
the correct stem. More bikes is a good thing!

Cheers,
Bill in wintery Roswell, GA

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 6:08:35 PM UTC-5, Ash A wrote:
>
> Rode the Raleigh 21 miles to work today.  My neck is not a happy camper 
> today.  Can't wait to ride like I want to ride once the Appaloosa arrives!
>
> I'm going to try the seat adjustment you suggested before I ride 
> back.http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/04/508213332/105-year-old-cyclist-rides-14-miles-in-an-hour-en-route-to-a-world-recordro
>
>
> Here's picture of the Raleigh (more 
> https://goo.gl/photos/Ha4YXYY7WoPgZgVw8)
>
>
> -Ash
>
>
> On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 07:04:21 UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Please post photos of the built Appaloosa and of the Ace. The Appaloosa 
>> is one of the Rivs I'd like to own, along with (in order of seriousness) 
>> the Roadeo, the Hunq, the Atlantis, and the Legolas. The A would come in 
>> about here.
>>
>> And who doesn't want to own a new/old Raleigh?
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Albastache + brifters

2017-01-06 Thread 'clayton bailey' via RBW Owners Bunch 
The L.D stem.
  
|  
|   
|   
|   $ 125.00   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
The L.D stem.
 This is our version of the Limp dick stem which was designed by Charlie 
Cunningham. This steam is designed to ge...  |   |

  |

  |

 This might help Ash, on the Raleigh...
I bought one, to build a bike around...lol. 
Clayton (Bend) 

On Friday, January 6, 2017 3:07 PM, Ash A  wrote:
 

 Rode the Raleigh 21 miles to work today.  My neck is not a happy camper today. 
 Can't wait to ride like I want to ride once the Appaloosa arrives!
I'm going to try the seat adjustment you suggested before I ride back.

Here's picture of the Raleigh (more https://goo.gl/photos/ Ha4YXYY7WoPgZgVw8)



-Ash

On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 07:04:21 UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
Please post photos of the built Appaloosa and of the Ace. The Appaloosa is one 
of the Rivs I'd like to own, along with (in order of seriousness) the Roadeo, 
the Hunq, the Atlantis, and the Legolas. The A would come in about here.
And who doesn't want to own a new/old Raleigh?
On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 3:15 PM, Ashwath Akirekadu  wrote:

Patrick,
I'll play with saddle position as well (as I said, I'm experimenting).  Thanks 
for the idea.  Although my issue is less with arms and more with the neck.  
Using typical drop bar position feels similar (to my neck) to watching a TV 
mounted 25 ft above the floor during the entire ride.  
Also thanks for bringing up safety part.  It might be a significant factor for 
some riders out there who are thinking using stem extender.  For my use though 
it does not *feel* like there is a safety issue.  The upright position 
significantly reduces the amount of weight that goes on the handlebar. Also, my 
rides are mostly on flat roads.  I never exceed 15mph.    With the stem and the 
extender both tucked all the way down, the setup is probably sturdy enough.  
(which won't be the case I were to be climbing hills or riding fast downhill).
A better suitable bike frame is on the way, btw.  I've ordered an Appaloosa 
frame.  Nitto Dirt Drop stem + ChocoNORM bar combination works great for me on 
that (based on the test ride).   I acquired a Raleigh Record Ace from a friend, 
which I'm planning on using for occasional fast rides.
Chees,
-Ash

On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 07:14:03 UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
I'm glad the bar is comfortable, but it's too high: first, is it safe? I ask 
that question very seriously. With the extender and then the long quill toward 
the end of its travel, you are going to torque those joints far more than 
usual, and perhaps to the point of some sort of failure.
Second, if you want a bar that high, you really need a very different frame, 
one with a much higher head tube. When you go to such an extreme measure as on 
your Bianchi, you know right away that you are trying to make a silk purse out 
of something else.
And third, there are other ways of getting torso/neck/arm/hand comfort than 
merely by raising the bar to an extreme height. It goes against the 
imagination, but often (I don't say always), putting your saddle further back, 
so that your core takes over the work of holding up your shoulders and head, is 
the first step in setting up a bicycle comfortably. You'll notice that bikes 
designed for very high bars, like the Dutch city bike, also have very, very 
slack seat tube angles, and I don't think that this is merely coincidence.
All of this is entirely removed from any question of a "racing" position. (Note 
too that the drop bar design is among the oldest around because it has been 
proved one of the most comfortable when properly set up.)
I chose the 2 images below at random and only afterward noticed that both show 
Velo Orange bikes.
I don't mean merely to be critical. You will do yourself a real favor by 
finding either a more effective way to get comfort, or else, a very different 
design that does safely allow such an extreme bar position.




On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:35 PM, Ashwath Akirekadu  wrote:

When I wondered about usability of brifters on Albastache/Mustache type bars 
sometime ago, I couldn't find much info on interwebs. 
I decided to get an Albastache anyway and give it a try.  Turns out it works ok 
with Campy brifters.  Shimano/SRAM brifters aren't likely as suitable since  
they don't have the thumb button. 
I was happy to trade slightly reduced brifter usability for increased usable 
handlebar positions that Albastache offers (in 3 years of riding this road 
bike, I had never  felt the need to use the lower part of drop bars. I did, 
however,  frequently looked for ways to be upright).  Folks optimizing for 
speed may feel differently.   
Next experiment was handlebar height.  

I've never felt uncomfortable to grab a spoon or use fingers, if I thought 
those options were more optimal when everyone else was using chopsticks or 
forks.  Proliferation of skinny fashion didn't make me change my jeans.  And so 
on.  I

Re: [RBW] Albastache + brifters

2017-01-06 Thread Ash A 
Rode the Raleigh 21 miles to work today.  My neck is not a happy camper 
today.  Can't wait to ride like I want to ride once the Appaloosa arrives!

I'm going to try the seat adjustment you suggested before I ride back.


Here's picture of the Raleigh (more https://goo.gl/photos/Ha4YXYY7WoPgZgVw8)




-Ash


On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 07:04:21 UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Please post photos of the built Appaloosa and of the Ace. The Appaloosa is 
> one of the Rivs I'd like to own, along with (in order of seriousness) the 
> Roadeo, the Hunq, the Atlantis, and the Legolas. The A would come in about 
> here.
>
> And who doesn't want to own a new/old Raleigh?
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 3:15 PM, Ashwath Akirekadu  > wrote:
>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> I'll play with saddle position as well (as I said, I'm experimenting).  
>> Thanks for the idea.  Although my issue is less with arms and more with the 
>> neck.  Using typical drop bar position feels similar (to my neck) to 
>> watching a TV mounted 25 ft above the floor during the entire ride.  
>>
>> Also thanks for bringing up safety part.  It might be a significant 
>> factor for some riders out there who are thinking using stem extender.  For 
>> my use though it does not *feel* like there is a safety issue.  The upright 
>> position significantly reduces the amount of weight that goes on the 
>> handlebar. Also, my rides are mostly on flat roads.  I never exceed 15mph. 
>>With the stem and the extender both tucked all the way down, the setup 
>> is probably sturdy enough.  (which won't be the case I were to be climbing 
>> hills or riding fast downhill).
>>
>> A better suitable bike frame is on the way, btw.  I've ordered an 
>> Appaloosa frame.  Nitto Dirt Drop stem + ChocoNORM bar combination works 
>> great for me on that (based on the test ride).   I acquired a Raleigh 
>> Record Ace from a friend, which I'm planning on using for occasional fast 
>> rides.
>>
>> Chees,
>>
>> -Ash
>>
>> On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 07:14:03 UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm glad the bar is comfortable, but it's too high: first, is it safe? I 
>>> ask that question very seriously. With the extender and then the long quill 
>>> toward the end of its travel, you are going to torque those joints far more 
>>> than usual, and perhaps to the point of some sort of failure.
>>>
>>> Second, if you want a bar that high, you really need a very different 
>>> frame, one with a much higher head tube. When you go to such an extreme 
>>> measure as on your Bianchi, you know right away that you are trying to make 
>>> a silk purse out of something else.
>>>
>>> And third, there are other ways of getting torso/neck/arm/hand comfort 
>>> than merely by raising the bar to an extreme height. It goes against the 
>>> imagination, but often (I don't say always), putting your saddle further 
>>> back, so that your core takes over the work of holding up your shoulders 
>>> and head, is the first step in setting up a bicycle comfortably. You'll 
>>> notice that bikes designed for very high bars, like the Dutch city bike, 
>>> also have very, very slack seat tube angles, and I don't think that this is 
>>> merely coincidence.
>>>
>>> All of this is entirely removed from any question of a "racing" 
>>> position. (Note too that the drop bar design is among the oldest around 
>>> because it has been proved one of the most comfortable when properly set 
>>> up.)
>>>
>>> I chose the 2 images below at random and only afterward noticed that 
>>> both show Velo Orange bikes.
>>>
>>> I don't mean merely to be critical. You will do yourself a real favor by 
>>> finding either a more effective way to get comfort, or else, a very 
>>> different design that does safely allow such an extreme bar position.
>>>
>>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>>
>>> [image: Inline image 2]
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:35 PM, Ashwath Akirekadu  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 When I wondered about usability of brifters on Albastache/Mustache 
 type bars sometime ago, I couldn't find much info on interwebs. 

 I decided to get an Albastache anyway and give it a try.  Turns out it 
 works ok with Campy brifters.  Shimano/SRAM brifters aren't likely as 
 suitable since  they don't have the thumb button. 

 I was happy to trade slightly reduced brifter usability for increased 
 usable handlebar positions that Albastache offers (in 3 years of riding 
 this road bike, I had never  felt the need to use the lower part of drop 
 bars. I did, however,  frequently looked for ways to be upright).  Folks 
 optimizing for speed may feel differently.   

 Next experiment was handlebar height.  

 I've never felt uncomfortable to grab a spoon or use fingers, if I 
 thought those options were more optimal when everyone else was using 
 chopsticks or forks.  Proliferation of skinny fashion didn't make me 
 change 
 my jeans.  And so

Re: [RBW] Albastache + brifters

2017-01-04 Thread Patrick Moore 
Please post photos of the built Appaloosa and of the Ace. The Appaloosa is
one of the Rivs I'd like to own, along with (in order of seriousness) the
Roadeo, the Hunq, the Atlantis, and the Legolas. The A would come in about
here.

And who doesn't want to own a new/old Raleigh?

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 3:15 PM, Ashwath Akirekadu  wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> I'll play with saddle position as well (as I said, I'm experimenting).
> Thanks for the idea.  Although my issue is less with arms and more with the
> neck.  Using typical drop bar position feels similar (to my neck) to
> watching a TV mounted 25 ft above the floor during the entire ride.
>
> Also thanks for bringing up safety part.  It might be a significant factor
> for some riders out there who are thinking using stem extender.  For my use
> though it does not *feel* like there is a safety issue.  The upright
> position significantly reduces the amount of weight that goes on the
> handlebar. Also, my rides are mostly on flat roads.  I never exceed 15mph.
>With the stem and the extender both tucked all the way down, the setup
> is probably sturdy enough.  (which won't be the case I were to be climbing
> hills or riding fast downhill).
>
> A better suitable bike frame is on the way, btw.  I've ordered an
> Appaloosa frame.  Nitto Dirt Drop stem + ChocoNORM bar combination works
> great for me on that (based on the test ride).   I acquired a Raleigh
> Record Ace from a friend, which I'm planning on using for occasional fast
> rides.
>
> Chees,
>
> -Ash
>
> On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 07:14:03 UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I'm glad the bar is comfortable, but it's too high: first, is it safe? I
>> ask that question very seriously. With the extender and then the long quill
>> toward the end of its travel, you are going to torque those joints far more
>> than usual, and perhaps to the point of some sort of failure.
>>
>> Second, if you want a bar that high, you really need a very different
>> frame, one with a much higher head tube. When you go to such an extreme
>> measure as on your Bianchi, you know right away that you are trying to make
>> a silk purse out of something else.
>>
>> And third, there are other ways of getting torso/neck/arm/hand comfort
>> than merely by raising the bar to an extreme height. It goes against the
>> imagination, but often (I don't say always), putting your saddle further
>> back, so that your core takes over the work of holding up your shoulders
>> and head, is the first step in setting up a bicycle comfortably. You'll
>> notice that bikes designed for very high bars, like the Dutch city bike,
>> also have very, very slack seat tube angles, and I don't think that this is
>> merely coincidence.
>>
>> All of this is entirely removed from any question of a "racing" position.
>> (Note too that the drop bar design is among the oldest around because it
>> has been proved one of the most comfortable when properly set up.)
>>
>> I chose the 2 images below at random and only afterward noticed that both
>> show Velo Orange bikes.
>>
>> I don't mean merely to be critical. You will do yourself a real favor by
>> finding either a more effective way to get comfort, or else, a very
>> different design that does safely allow such an extreme bar position.
>>
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>
>> [image: Inline image 2]
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:35 PM, Ashwath Akirekadu 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> When I wondered about usability of brifters on Albastache/Mustache
>>> type bars sometime ago, I couldn't find much info on interwebs.
>>>
>>> I decided to get an Albastache anyway and give it a try.  Turns out it
>>> works ok with Campy brifters.  Shimano/SRAM brifters aren't likely as
>>> suitable since  they don't have the thumb button.
>>>
>>> I was happy to trade slightly reduced brifter usability for increased
>>> usable handlebar positions that Albastache offers (in 3 years of riding
>>> this road bike, I had never  felt the need to use the lower part of drop
>>> bars. I did, however,  frequently looked for ways to be upright).  Folks
>>> optimizing for speed may feel differently.
>>>
>>> Next experiment was handlebar height.
>>>
>>> I've never felt uncomfortable to grab a spoon or use fingers, if I
>>> thought those options were more optimal when everyone else was using
>>> chopsticks or forks.  Proliferation of skinny fashion didn't make me change
>>> my jeans.  And so on.  I rank usability/practicality way higher than
>>> coolness.   Still, when it came to bike, somehow, I wasn't at ease raising
>>> handlebar above saddle level, regardless of how stupid (and
>>> pain-in-the-neck-inducing) the default setup felt.  Last weekend I raised
>>> the bar like no one was watching.  Picture attached.  It does look
>>> more comical than giraffe and lama, IMO.  After several short and couples
>>> of long rides, I'm concluding that this is how it is going to be now on.
>>> Don't care if other bikers in the neighborhood

Re: [RBW] Albastache + brifters

2017-01-03 Thread Ashwath Akirekadu 
Patrick,

I'll play with saddle position as well (as I said, I'm experimenting). 
 Thanks for the idea.  Although my issue is less with arms and more with 
the neck.  Using typical drop bar position feels similar (to my neck) to 
watching a TV mounted 25 ft above the floor during the entire ride.  

Also thanks for bringing up safety part.  It might be a significant factor 
for some riders out there who are thinking using stem extender.  For my use 
though it does not *feel* like there is a safety issue.  The upright 
position significantly reduces the amount of weight that goes on the 
handlebar. Also, my rides are mostly on flat roads.  I never exceed 15mph. 
   With the stem and the extender both tucked all the way down, the setup 
is probably sturdy enough.  (which won't be the case I were to be climbing 
hills or riding fast downhill).

A better suitable bike frame is on the way, btw.  I've ordered an Appaloosa 
frame.  Nitto Dirt Drop stem + ChocoNORM bar combination works great for me 
on that (based on the test ride).   I acquired a Raleigh Record Ace from a 
friend, which I'm planning on using for occasional fast rides.

Chees,

-Ash

On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 07:14:03 UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I'm glad the bar is comfortable, but it's too high: first, is it safe? I 
> ask that question very seriously. With the extender and then the long quill 
> toward the end of its travel, you are going to torque those joints far more 
> than usual, and perhaps to the point of some sort of failure.
>
> Second, if you want a bar that high, you really need a very different 
> frame, one with a much higher head tube. When you go to such an extreme 
> measure as on your Bianchi, you know right away that you are trying to make 
> a silk purse out of something else.
>
> And third, there are other ways of getting torso/neck/arm/hand comfort 
> than merely by raising the bar to an extreme height. It goes against the 
> imagination, but often (I don't say always), putting your saddle further 
> back, so that your core takes over the work of holding up your shoulders 
> and head, is the first step in setting up a bicycle comfortably. You'll 
> notice that bikes designed for very high bars, like the Dutch city bike, 
> also have very, very slack seat tube angles, and I don't think that this is 
> merely coincidence.
>
> All of this is entirely removed from any question of a "racing" position. 
> (Note too that the drop bar design is among the oldest around because it 
> has been proved one of the most comfortable when properly set up.)
>
> I chose the 2 images below at random and only afterward noticed that both 
> show Velo Orange bikes.
>
> I don't mean merely to be critical. You will do yourself a real favor by 
> finding either a more effective way to get comfort, or else, a very 
> different design that does safely allow such an extreme bar position.
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
> [image: Inline image 2]
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:35 PM, Ashwath Akirekadu  > wrote:
>
>> When I wondered about usability of brifters on Albastache/Mustache 
>> type bars sometime ago, I couldn't find much info on interwebs. 
>>
>> I decided to get an Albastache anyway and give it a try.  Turns out it 
>> works ok with Campy brifters.  Shimano/SRAM brifters aren't likely as 
>> suitable since  they don't have the thumb button. 
>>
>> I was happy to trade slightly reduced brifter usability for increased 
>> usable handlebar positions that Albastache offers (in 3 years of riding 
>> this road bike, I had never  felt the need to use the lower part of drop 
>> bars. I did, however,  frequently looked for ways to be upright).  Folks 
>> optimizing for speed may feel differently.   
>>
>> Next experiment was handlebar height.  
>>
>> I've never felt uncomfortable to grab a spoon or use fingers, if I 
>> thought those options were more optimal when everyone else was using 
>> chopsticks or forks.  Proliferation of skinny fashion didn't make me change 
>> my jeans.  And so on.  I rank usability/practicality way higher than 
>> coolness.   Still, when it came to bike, somehow, I wasn't at ease raising 
>> handlebar above saddle level, regardless of how stupid (and 
>> pain-in-the-neck-inducing) the default setup felt.  Last weekend I raised 
>> the bar like no one was watching.  Picture attached.  It does look 
>> more comical than giraffe and lama, IMO.  After several short and couples 
>> of long rides, I'm concluding that this is how it is going to be now on.  
>> Don't care if other bikers in the neighborhood cringe.  My neck is 
>> already thanking me. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> www.freerice.com
>> play and feed a hungry person
>>
>>
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