[RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[lum gim fong]

Like iphones
Same price everywhere seems like.

I remember the huge price diff in Nifty Swiftys between RBW and Niagara.
I asked RBW about this.
RBW said they didnt like the idea  that Niagara could sell so cheap as they 
didnt bear the R/E/design costs. But RBW said they couldn't do same because RBW 
bore the R/E/design costs.

Perhaps Compass is the only US distributor.
Maybe this helps then ensure uniform pricing nationwide.
Like PJWhite with Son hubs. But I think there is another SONhub distributor in 
the USA now.

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[RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Garth]

It's easy to get a shipping estimate from a website like Grand Bois.  Add items 
to the cart, then checkout as guest, fill out the form with a dummy name and 
address, just use a valid zipcode of some sort. Then you will have an exact 
quote. For the heck of it I added 2 Hetre and I don't recall the exact numbers 
but it ended up being like low to mid 50's per tire to the midwest US. 4 tires 
was not much better. I find it odd that very few sell the GB tires in the US 
anymore, all went to Compass. I also find it funny how so many are sold tight 
around the same price of 57-59$ , not unlike the "magical" 19.99 ads on the 
tele !  Monkey see, monkey copy ! 

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks for sharing!

On Friday, October 6, 2017 at 10:45:50 AM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Here is an old order of mine for 2 tires and some bits:
>
> Item Name: GrandBois tire Cypres700 700x30C 700×30C (30-622)/スタンダード | 
> Standard
> Item Price: 4,320 JPY
> Qty: 2
> Item Total: 8,640 JPY
>
> Item Name: GrandBois Brake Springs for GrandBois Chouette/Normal
> Item Total: 1,080 JPY
>
> Item Name: GrandBois Brake Shoe Adjuster
> Item Total: 5,400 JPY
> 
>
> Subtotal: 15,120 JPY
> Shipping: 2,500 JPY
> Processing Fee: 0 JPY
> Tax: -1,120 JPY
> Total: 16,500 JPY
>

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Belopsky]

Here is an old order of mine for 2 tires and some bits:

Item Name: GrandBois tire Cypres700 700x30C 700×30C (30-622)/スタンダード | 
Standard
Item Price: 4,320 JPY
Qty: 2
Item Total: 8,640 JPY

Item Name: GrandBois Brake Springs for GrandBois Chouette/Normal
Item Total: 1,080 JPY

Item Name: GrandBois Brake Shoe Adjuster
Item Total: 5,400 JPY


Subtotal: 15,120 JPY
Shipping: 2,500 JPY
Processing Fee: 0 JPY
Tax: -1,120 JPY
Total: 16,500 JPY

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Jeremy Tavan]

I have the Fairweather 700x32 in red on my sparkly burgundy English 
lightweight. They look right, and ride very comfortably. I haven't compared 
them directly with Compass in that size, but my feeling of the casings is 
that they're relatively light and supple, but not Compass light. I'm quite 
pleased with them. Have had one flat in 850 miles of commuting, when I ran 
over a large construction staple, which went all the way through and lodged 
in the tube.

/Jeremy 

On Friday, October 6, 2017 at 5:30:45 AM UTC-7, Scott G. wrote:
>
> For good tires go here.
>
> http://www.fmbtires.com/fmb_paris_roubaix_pro.htm 
> 
>
> Only $160 for 32mm FMB PR Pros, as used by Tom Boonen.
> I'd ride them, but I'd cry if I flatted them.
>
> Anyone try Fairweather tires, yet another Panaracer/Compass variant ?
>
> https://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/tires-tubes-rim-tape/fairweather-traveler-tire-700x32.html
>  
> 
> The red ones would be great for old Brit bikes.
>
> Happy Compass/GB tire user since 2006
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Scott G.]

For good tires go here.

http://www.fmbtires.com/fmb_paris_roubaix_pro.htm

Only $160 for 32mm FMB PR Pros, as used by Tom Boonen.
I'd ride them, but I'd cry if I flatted them.

Anyone try Fairweather tires, yet another Panaracer/Compass variant ?
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/tires-tubes-rim-tape/fairweather-traveler-tire-700x32.html
The red ones would be great for old Brit bikes.

Happy Compass/GB tire user since 2006


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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I posted a link to Jan's article in one of my replies above. The "hand 
made" is qualified:

*A highlight of my visits to Japan is going to the Panaracer factory. It’s 
a magical place, where some of the world’s best tires are made largely by 
hand.*

I would have to say that is an exaggeration, depending on your definition 
of "largely." But Jan does have a tendency toward hyperbole, so there's 
that. Not really a big deal.

*The tires are assembled by hand. It’s a fascinating process, and I could 
easily spend a month photographing the factory. There is enough material 
write a book! But there are too many trade secrets, so no photography is 
allowed. Panaracer’s engineers would prefer if nobody knew what is going on 
in their factory.*

Judging from the limited photos (and today's manufacturing and volumes) the 
hand part, whatever it might be, is just one step in the process. And 
unlike some high-end tubulars, the joining of the rubber tread to the 
casing is *not* done by hand, but with the vulcanization process. Which is 
presented here as "the best of both worlds" and  not available to the 
boutique makers because the equipment is too expensive. Although this is 
probably the part that the folks who make "hand-made" tires tout as the 
hand made part. A little confusing but bottom line, the tires are great, 
cool to see at least some of the process of manufacture, and Compass, like 
Rivendell, is a company I support because it is imbued with the soul and 
personality of the folks behind it.

On Friday, October 6, 2017 at 7:12:32 AM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Not sure if it was addressed, but how are Compass tires made by hand?
>

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/06/2017 07:16 AM, Belopsky wrote:

Sorry, was going to add to this:

Yes, Jan had a post about his visit to Panaracer about their tires. If 
the Compass ones are made by hand, so are the other Panaracer tires.


As far as value, the Grand Bois line of tires (also made by Panaracer) 
are very nice and can be had for relatively cheap straight from GB. 
The Hetre are heavier and don't roll as fast, but they're very nice as 
well. $38.xx USD prior to shipping




Any idea what the shipping on a tire would be?


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Belopsky]

Sorry, was going to add to this:

Yes, Jan had a post about his visit to Panaracer about their tires. If the 
Compass ones are made by hand, so are the other Panaracer tires.

As far as value, the Grand Bois line of tires (also made by Panaracer) are 
very nice and can be had for relatively cheap straight from GB. The 
Hetre are heavier and don't roll as fast, but they're very nice as well. 
$38.xx USD prior to shipping

On Friday, October 6, 2017 at 7:12:32 AM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Not sure if it was addressed, but how are Compass tires made by hand?
>

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Belopsky]

Not sure if it was addressed, but how are Compass tires made by hand?

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[John Hawrylak]

I agree, Many years ago, Grant stated in a write up, RBW had to purchase  a 
new Jack Brown mold as the original was wearing.  

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 9:42:58 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure Compass owns the mold. 
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Orc]

Resist Nomad 700x28c, Hutchinson Confrerie des 650b.   The Pari-Moto is a 
little too expensive to go into the cheap category, and the Nomad 35 is 
good, but it's just a tire.

-david parsons

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 9:35:45 PM UTC-7, dougP wrote:
>
> There's that old saying about fast, good, & cheap.  You only get to pick 2 
> of 3.
>
> dougP
>
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 8:47:29 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Lee Legrand very concisely asked: "Huh?" in response to my sarcastic 
>> request for the best tires in the world to be cheap.  It was a sarcastic 
>> comment.  Many many people have learned that better tires are better.  Many 
>> people believe that Compass tires are the best in the world for their given 
>> size.  Many of those people also complain that Compass tires are 
>> expensive.  Some ask participants of the Rivendell Bicycle Works Owners 
>> Bunch Google Group to explain and justify the pricing of Compass Bicycles 
>> Ltd.  I think that state of affairs is amusing on many levels and my 
>> sarcastic post was an attempt to add more amusement to the comedy.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 6:16:47 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>
>>> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to 
>>> develop and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell 
>>> them to me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>>
 I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to 
 develop and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to 
 sell 
 them to me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!

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>>>
>>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Chris Birkenmaier]

+1 Eric.  I just pay the price and enjoy the ride.  I am utterly spoiled by 
Compass tires.

On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 12:07:21 AM UTC-4, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> My riding took a leap forward a few years ago when I finally broke down 
> and started buying expensive tires. They do make a difference, and they are 
> worth the money.
>
> I currently ride Grand Bois and Compass tires almost exclusively. The 
> major exception is a 650B-equipped Rivendell that currently has Gravel 
> Kings, which are are the last “cheap” tires I still use.
>
> --Eric N
> campyo...@me.com 
> www.CampyOnly.com
> Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
> @Campyonlyguy
>
>
> On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:47 PM, Bill Lindsay > 
> wrote:
>
> Lee Legrand very concisely asked: "Huh?" in response to my sarcastic 
> request for the best tires in the world to be cheap.  It was a sarcastic 
> comment.  Many many people have learned that better tires are better.  Many 
> people believe that Compass tires are the best in the world for their given 
> size.  Many of those people also complain that Compass tires are 
> expensive.  Some ask participants of the Rivendell Bicycle Works Owners 
> Bunch Google Group to explain and justify the pricing of Compass Bicycles 
> Ltd.  I think that state of affairs is amusing on many levels and my 
> sarcastic post was an attempt to add more amusement to the comedy.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 6:16:47 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to 
>> develop and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell 
>> them to me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to 
>>> develop and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell 
>>> them to me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Lee Legrand]

Lee Legrand very concisely asked: "Huh?" in response to my sarcastic
request for the best tires in the world to be cheap.  It was a sarcastic
comment.  Many many people have learned that better tires are better.  Many
people believe that Compass tires are the best in the world for their given
size.  Many of those people also complain that Compass tires are
expensive.  Some ask participants of the Rivendell Bicycle Works Owners
Bunch Google Group to explain and justify the pricing of Compass Bicycles
Ltd.  I think that state of affairs is amusing on many levels and my
sarcastic post was an attempt to add more amusement to the comedy.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

Thanks for clarifying.  Now I know you did not smoke bad bag of bud
yesterday.

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Philip Kim  wrote:

> i've used compass babyshoes, switchback hills, and rat trap passes, all in
> standard and EL casing.
>
> now that i only have one bike which consolidates my miles, i prefer hetres
> as the best value.
>
> surprisingly enough, i have the parimoto with gravelking casing on my
> girlfriends BDB Pelican, and i think they are "close enough". ymmv
>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Philip Kim]

i've used compass babyshoes, switchback hills, and rat trap passes, all in 
standard and EL casing.

now that i only have one bike which consolidates my miles, i prefer hetres 
as the best value.

surprisingly enough, i have the parimoto with gravelking casing on my 
girlfriends BDB Pelican, and i think they are "close enough". ymmv

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[RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Garth]

The "best tire in the world" are the ones on your bike right now. If anyone 
doubts this, try riding without any tires !  If you need new tires, the best 
ones are the ones you get, regardless of how or why. 


Questioning and comparing yourself to others is futile, like being a pinball in 
the machine and wondering why you have no sense of direction. No one  is a 
pinball. 


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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Eric Norris]

My riding took a leap forward a few years ago when I finally broke down and 
started buying expensive tires. They do make a difference, and they are worth 
the money.

I currently ride Grand Bois and Compass tires almost exclusively. The major 
exception is a 650B-equipped Rivendell that currently has Gravel Kings, which 
are are the last “cheap” tires I still use.

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy


> On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:47 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> Lee Legrand very concisely asked: "Huh?" in response to my sarcastic request 
> for the best tires in the world to be cheap.  It was a sarcastic comment.  
> Many many people have learned that better tires are better.  Many people 
> believe that Compass tires are the best in the world for their given size.  
> Many of those people also complain that Compass tires are expensive.  Some 
> ask participants of the Rivendell Bicycle Works Owners Bunch Google Group to 
> explain and justify the pricing of Compass Bicycles Ltd.  I think that state 
> of affairs is amusing on many levels and my sarcastic post was an attempt to 
> add more amusement to the comedy.
> 
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> 
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 6:16:47 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop 
> and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to 
> me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
> 
> Huh?
> 
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Bill Lindsay > wrote:
> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop 
> and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to 
> me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
> 
> --
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Bill Lindsay]

Lee Legrand very concisely asked: "Huh?" in response to my sarcastic 
request for the best tires in the world to be cheap.  It was a sarcastic 
comment.  Many many people have learned that better tires are better.  Many 
people believe that Compass tires are the best in the world for their given 
size.  Many of those people also complain that Compass tires are 
expensive.  Some ask participants of the Rivendell Bicycle Works Owners 
Bunch Google Group to explain and justify the pricing of Compass Bicycles 
Ltd.  I think that state of affairs is amusing on many levels and my 
sarcastic post was an attempt to add more amusement to the comedy.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 6:16:47 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop 
> and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to 
> me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
>
> Huh?
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Bill Lindsay  > wrote:
>
>> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to 
>> develop and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell 
>> them to me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
>>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[lum gim fong]

I thought maybe they had an agreement that panaracer could make their own 
version even though compass designed it. Because the gravel king looked 
identical to me. But turns out they are not the same tire anyway so it's a moot 
question.

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[lum gim fong]

Turns out they're not the same as the gravel kings.

I love the compass tires but now they're up to 64 bucks. It was good to have 
the price break that compass gave over the last couple years when the yen went 
down. That was nice of them.

I think they were 57$ when I bought my last ones. So not a big bump up in price 
recently but as it approaches 70$ its harder to get my head around paying that 
much for a bike tire. but that is my problem I guess.

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Not exactly almost. But here you go:

*For the Compass Extralight models, Panaracer uses a casing usually 
reserved for their top-end racing tubulars. Panaracer doesn’t use this 
casing on their own clinchers. The company feels that their tires may end 
up with inexperienced customers, who may need sturdier tires.*

I would guess the Panaracer Gravel tires are probably pretty close to the 
Compass standard casing tires. And priced within $10 of those, give or take.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/panaracer-hand-made-tires/

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 8:23:08 PM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
>  Compass tires, if I remember correctly, are made almost by hand which is 
> why the cost is the way it is. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Steve Palincsar]

I'm pretty sure Compass owns the mold.


On 10/04/2017 09:41 PM, lum gim fong wrote:

I did not mean that compass was re-branding tires.  That's not what I was 
talking about.  I know the history of those compass tires.  Pana racer made 
them for compass. So I thought maybe panaracer had rights  since they have the 
mold and equipment to make them and was making their own and that they were 
changing the name and selling them under another name.



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Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[lum gim fong]

I did not mean that compass was re-branding tires.  That's not what I was 
talking about.  I know the history of those compass tires.  Pana racer made 
them for compass. So I thought maybe panaracer had rights  since they have the 
mold and equipment to make them and was making their own and that they were 
changing the name and selling them under another name.

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Lee Legrand]

I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop
and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to
me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!

Huh?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop
> and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to
> me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Bill Lindsay]

I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop and 
manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to me for 
really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Reed Kennedy]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Lee Legrand  wrote:

> Compass tires, if I remember correctly, are made almost by hand which is
> why the cost is the way it is.
>

I suspect you're on to something there. I've always thought it was sorta
funny that so many people assume Compass marks up their tires a ton and
makes a killing on them.

I mean, maybe they do? I have no inside information. But I've always gotten
the impression that Jan is at least as interested in getting more people on
bikes (and tires) that they like as he is in making a quick buck.


Best,
Reed


> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 8:00 PM, panog  wrote:
>
>> The Soma Vitesse are awfully close to my estimation and at $35 a pop look
>> pretty good
>>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Lee Legrand]

I've also been in search of times that would match the Compass tires
without the same high cost. I was working on the assumption that a bigger
company with wider distribution channels could offer the same thing for
less. Doesn't appear to be the case. The closest alternative is the Soma
Supple Vitesse, which is close. The slight price differential matches the
ride differential. The Soma is also a VERY good tire.

I think you have to run a test and math.  Compass tires, if I remember
correctly, are made almost by hand which is why the cost is the way it is.
You get a tire that may feel the same in terms of ride as the high cost
tires but you also factor in wear between the two.  Hard to consider since
you have to get test for it but I understand why you would feel that way.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 8:00 PM, panog  wrote:

> The Soma Vitesse are awfully close to my estimation and at $35 a pop look
> pretty good
>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[panog]

The Soma Vitesse are awfully close to my estimation and at $35 a pop look 
pretty good

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Jay Connolly]

I've also been in search of times that would match the Compass tires without 
the same high cost. I was working on the assumption that a bigger company with 
wider distribution channels could offer the same thing for less. Doesn't appear 
to be the case. The closest alternative is the Soma Supple Vitesse, which is 
close. The slight price differential matches the ride differential. The Soma is 
also a VERY good tire.

Jay

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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/04/2017 06:41 PM, lum gim fong wrote:
 https://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/panaracer-gravelking-slick-650x42mm-brown-sidewall 


Panaracer rebranded?

Not an accusation, just curious, because if it is the same tire I'd 
like to save the 40$ per pair by buying these.


Anyone know?





Panaracer makes lots of different tires.  One thing I absolutely do not 
believe is that Compass is re-branding existing Panaracer tires.  Let me 
suggest you buy one of each and compare them.


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Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[lum gim fong]

 
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/panaracer-gravelking-slick-650x42mm-brown-sidewall
  
Panaracer rebranded?

Not an accusation, just curious, because if it is the same tire I'd like to 
save the 40$ per pair by buying these.

Anyone know?


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