Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[John Dewey]

Eric, et. al.:

I stumbled upon Shimano RR M760 quite a few years ago and snatched a bunch 
of 'em up. Enough to mount on four 'daily' riders and a few more to replace 
any that stop working or suffer trauma, etc.. Shift levers are all Dura-Ace 
9 speed mounted on DT.

All of them are now as sharp and precise as the day they were attached. I 
don't ride gravel very often, my bikes are primarily built for the road—so 
there is that. But for every-day riding on the road, I can't image that 
giant spring softening up. And shifting up the cassette, especially under 
load, is as smooth and quiet and 'effortless' as can be. I know that's 
Grant's primary reasoning, because he told me.

The one caveat—if there is one—is that if you suffer just a bit of dyslexia 
as I do (a left/right kind of dys) my experience tells me I can't go back 
and forth from 'low normal' to 'normal'. Makes me crazy. If you can always 
remember left from right, you'll probably have no problems. 

With a bit of compulsive polishing, these M760s are gorgeous units and will 
look perfectly 'at home' on any bike no matter the builder: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/48660635053/in/dateposted-public/

Another probably unnecessary/stupid maneuver I habitually follow is that 
when I park a bike at ride's end, I move the chain up the cassette to relax 
the spring. Don't know if this really matters or not, but it makes some 
sense to me.

BEST / Jock Dewey / San Anselmo





On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 1:09:31 PM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> Path Less Pedaled just did an entire video episode on Rapid Rise/Low 
> Normal derailleurs that’s definitely worth watching.
>
> One point that came up in the comments from viewers is that shifting to 
> lower gears is done entirely through the strength of the spring in the 
> derailleur. Move the shifter to release more cable, and the *spring* pushes 
> the chain onto a larger cog. In practice, according to people who had used 
> RR/LN extensively, was that normal stuff that happens to derailleurs (they 
> get dirty or muddy, or need lubrication) makes that spring’s job harder, 
> with the result that it doesn’t work as well. 
>
> Shifting to a larger cog also benefits from a slight decrease in pedaling 
> pressure while shifting (again, to make the spring’s job easier). That’s 
> not always possible when you’re grinding up a steep incline and need to 
> grab a lower gear. This may be part of the reason why RR/LN was phased out 
> … along with the fact that it was “different” in an industry that mostly 
> prizes conformity.
>
> Full disclosure: I’ve never used a RR/LN setup, although I do ride almost 
> exclusively with friction-shifting downtube levers.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> On Aug 22, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>
> Do you run a Rapid Rise derailer? Do you like it? Have you had one before 
> and just didn't get it? What's the *deal?*
>
> With all the commotion over Rivendell's plan to build their own production 
> low-normal derailer I figured I'd try one out for myself. The first one I 
> picked up was an XTR RD-M951 which I suspected had a bent pulley cage, some 
> of you may remember I posted about this mech a few weeks ago. 
>
> I found this Nexave on eBay for $17 so figured I'd give it a shot. This 
> model, to my mind, is *the* classic rapid rise derailer. Silver, shiny, 
> long cage, external guide pulley, pivoting cable guide for a short bit of 
> housing over the rear dropout. Grant mentioned that this was his favorite 
> model, cosmetically. I like it, too. 
>
> So far I haven't put many miles on it but no complaints. I like getting 
> into the easier gears with a light touch. I'm running the derailer on my 
> Appaloosa with a Silver 38/24 crank and a 9-speed 11-36 cassette. It's 
> wired up to the original Suntour Power Thumb shifters which are mounted in 
> the reversed, under-hand style also known as the Riv-versed or Rivendell 
> brifter style. 
>
> With the reverse-mounted shifters I did like pushing the lever away from 
> me to get an easier gear with a high-normal derailer installed. That made 
> sense. Pulling the lever to me for an easier gear is taking a bit of 
> getting used to but the action required is so light that it's not a problem 
> so far. 
>
> Unfortunately, I haven't yet been in a situation where I'm climbing and 
> experience a mis-shift under torque resulting in the derailer bumping me to 
> an easier gear. I'm looking forward to it, really. 
>
> One thing I can't get my head wrapped around is why Grant and Rivendell 
> want to make this happen and go through so much trouble and expense. It is 
> quite a complicated undertaking. It seems if you're into low-normal 
> derailers they're out there if you look hard enough and have some patience. 
> Perhaps it's just what they do and what they're about. They want something 
> to exist that has gone out of production, they 

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[John Dewey]

Last M760 RR data point — looking back at my old bike pix, at least one of 
my reverse-normal M760s has been hard-at-work for 9 years. Was mounted in 
2013 for sure, maybe just a bit earlier. 

Jock Dewey
On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:

> Eric, et. al.:
>
> I stumbled upon Shimano RR M760 quite a few years ago and snatched a bunch 
> of 'em up. Enough to mount on four 'daily' riders and a few more to replace 
> any that stop working or suffer trauma, etc.. Shift levers are all Dura-Ace 
> 9 speed mounted on DT.
>
> All of them are now as sharp and precise as the day they were attached. I 
> don't ride gravel very often, my bikes are primarily built for the road—so 
> there is that. But for every-day riding on the road, I can't image that 
> giant spring softening up. And shifting up the cassette, especially under 
> load, is as smooth and quiet and 'effortless' as can be. I know that's 
> Grant's primary reasoning, because he told me.
>
> The one caveat—if there is one—is that if you suffer just a bit of 
> dyslexia as I do (a left/right kind of dys) my experience tells me I can't 
> go back and forth from 'low normal' to 'normal'. Makes me crazy. If you can 
> always remember left from right, you'll probably have no problems. 
>
> With a bit of compulsive polishing, these M760s are gorgeous units and 
> will look perfectly 'at home' on any bike no matter the builder: 
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/48660635053/in/dateposted-public/
>
> Another probably unnecessary/stupid maneuver I habitually follow is that 
> when I park a bike at ride's end, I move the chain up the cassette to relax 
> the spring. Don't know if this really matters or not, but it makes some 
> sense to me.
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey / San Anselmo
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 1:09:31 PM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
>> Path Less Pedaled just did an entire video episode on Rapid Rise/Low 
>> Normal derailleurs that’s definitely worth watching.
>>
>> One point that came up in the comments from viewers is that shifting to 
>> lower gears is done entirely through the strength of the spring in the 
>> derailleur. Move the shifter to release more cable, and the *spring* pushes 
>> the chain onto a larger cog. In practice, according to people who had used 
>> RR/LN extensively, was that normal stuff that happens to derailleurs (they 
>> get dirty or muddy, or need lubrication) makes that spring’s job harder, 
>> with the result that it doesn’t work as well. 
>>
>> Shifting to a larger cog also benefits from a slight decrease in pedaling 
>> pressure while shifting (again, to make the spring’s job easier). That’s 
>> not always possible when you’re grinding up a steep incline and need to 
>> grab a lower gear. This may be part of the reason why RR/LN was phased out 
>> … along with the fact that it was “different” in an industry that mostly 
>> prizes conformity.
>>
>> Full disclosure: I’ve never used a RR/LN setup, although I do ride almost 
>> exclusively with friction-shifting downtube levers.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>
>> On Aug 22, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>>
>> Do you run a Rapid Rise derailer? Do you like it? Have you had one before 
>> and just didn't get it? What's the *deal?*
>>
>> With all the commotion over Rivendell's plan to build their own 
>> production low-normal derailer I figured I'd try one out for myself. The 
>> first one I picked up was an XTR RD-M951 which I suspected had a bent 
>> pulley cage, some of you may remember I posted about this mech a few weeks 
>> ago. 
>>
>> I found this Nexave on eBay for $17 so figured I'd give it a shot. This 
>> model, to my mind, is *the* classic rapid rise derailer. Silver, shiny, 
>> long cage, external guide pulley, pivoting cable guide for a short bit of 
>> housing over the rear dropout. Grant mentioned that this was his favorite 
>> model, cosmetically. I like it, too. 
>>
>> So far I haven't put many miles on it but no complaints. I like getting 
>> into the easier gears with a light touch. I'm running the derailer on my 
>> Appaloosa with a Silver 38/24 crank and a 9-speed 11-36 cassette. It's 
>> wired up to the original Suntour Power Thumb shifters which are mounted in 
>> the reversed, under-hand style also known as the Riv-versed or Rivendell 
>> brifter style. 
>>
>> With the reverse-mounted shifters I did like pushing the lever away from 
>> me to get an easier gear with a high-normal derailer installed. That made 
>> sense. Pulling the lever to me for an easier gear is taking a bit of 
>> getting used to but the action required is so light that it's not a problem 
>> so far. 
>>
>> Unfortunately, I haven't yet been in a situation where I'm climbing and 
>> experience a mis-shift under torque resulting in the derailer bumping me to 
>> an easier gear. I'm looking forward to it, really. 
>>
>> One thing I can't get my

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Joe Bernard]

To be clear I see Riv's point in making one, it's a different thing from 
what's currently available so they'll have that niche. I just don't want 
one. 

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 4:20:30 PM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> I’m with Joe on this one. It’s a lot of work on something that’s already 
> been rejected by riders… repeatedly. 
>
> Eric 
>
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> My extremely "grouchy old man" feedback is the one RapidRise I acquired 
>> was a pain in the patooty to install and I didn't find any benefit to the 
>> reverse shifting. In this reporter's opinion! 🙋‍♂️
>>
>> Joe "I don't mind if others like them" Bernard 
>>
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 1:15:10 PM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:
>>
>>> Last M760 RR data point — looking back at my old bike pix, at least one 
>>> of my reverse-normal M760s has been hard-at-work for 9 years. Was mounted 
>>> in 2013 for sure, maybe just a bit earlier. 
>>>
>>> Jock Dewey
>>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:
>>>
 Eric, et. al.:

 I stumbled upon Shimano RR M760 quite a few years ago and snatched a 
 bunch of 'em up. Enough to mount on four 'daily' riders and a few more to 
 replace any that stop working or suffer trauma, etc.. Shift levers are all 
 Dura-Ace 9 speed mounted on DT.

 All of them are now as sharp and precise as the day they were attached. 
 I don't ride gravel very often, my bikes are primarily built for the 
 road—so there is that. But for every-day riding on the road, I can't image 
 that giant spring softening up. And shifting up the cassette, especially 
 under load, is as smooth and quiet and 'effortless' as can be. I know 
 that's Grant's primary reasoning, because he told me.

 The one caveat—if there is one—is that if you suffer just a bit of 
 dyslexia as I do (a left/right kind of dys) my experience tells me I can't 
 go back and forth from 'low normal' to 'normal'. Makes me crazy. If you 
 can 
 always remember left from right, you'll probably have no problems. 

 With a bit of compulsive polishing, these M760s are gorgeous units and 
 will look perfectly 'at home' on any bike no matter the builder: 


 https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/48660635053/in/dateposted-public/

 Another probably unnecessary/stupid maneuver I habitually follow is 
 that when I park a bike at ride's end, I move the chain up the cassette to 
 relax the spring. Don't know if this really matters or not, but it makes 
 some sense to me.

 BEST / Jock Dewey / San Anselmo





 On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 1:09:31 PM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> Path Less Pedaled just did an entire video episode on Rapid Rise/Low 
> Normal derailleurs that’s definitely worth watching.
>
> One point that came up in the comments from viewers is that shifting 
> to lower gears is done entirely through the strength of the spring in the 
> derailleur. Move the shifter to release more cable, and the *spring* 
> pushes 
> the chain onto a larger cog. In practice, according to people who had 
> used 
> RR/LN extensively, was that normal stuff that happens to derailleurs 
> (they 
> get dirty or muddy, or need lubrication) makes that spring’s job harder, 
> with the result that it doesn’t work as well. 
>
> Shifting to a larger cog also benefits from a slight decrease in 
> pedaling pressure while shifting (again, to make the spring’s job 
> easier). 
> That’s not always possible when you’re grinding up a steep incline and 
> need 
> to grab a lower gear. This may be part of the reason why RR/LN was phased 
> out … along with the fact that it was “different” in an industry that 
> mostly prizes conformity.
>
> Full disclosure: I’ve never used a RR/LN setup, although I do ride 
> almost exclusively with friction-shifting downtube levers.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> On Aug 22, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>
> Do you run a Rapid Rise derailer? Do you like it? Have you had one 
> before and just didn't get it? What's the *deal?*
>
> With all the commotion over Rivendell's plan to build their own 
> production low-normal derailer I figured I'd try one out for myself. The 
> first one I picked up was an XTR RD-M951 which I suspected had a bent 
> pulley cage, some of you may remember I posted about this mech a few 
> weeks 
> ago. 
>
> I found this Nexave on eBay for $17 so figured I'd give it a shot. 
> This model, to my mind, is *the* classic rapid rise derailer. Silver, 
> shiny, long cage, external guide pulley, pivoting cable guide for a short 
> bit of housing over the rear dr

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Eric Daume]

I’m with Joe on this one. It’s a lot of work on something that’s already
been rejected by riders… repeatedly.

Eric

On Saturday, September 24, 2022, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> My extremely "grouchy old man" feedback is the one RapidRise I acquired
> was a pain in the patooty to install and I didn't find any benefit to the
> reverse shifting. In this reporter's opinion! 🙋‍♂️
>
> Joe "I don't mind if others like them" Bernard
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 1:15:10 PM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:
>
>> Last M760 RR data point — looking back at my old bike pix, at least one
>> of my reverse-normal M760s has been hard-at-work for 9 years. Was mounted
>> in 2013 for sure, maybe just a bit earlier.
>>
>> Jock Dewey
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:
>>
>>> Eric, et. al.:
>>>
>>> I stumbled upon Shimano RR M760 quite a few years ago and snatched a
>>> bunch of 'em up. Enough to mount on four 'daily' riders and a few more to
>>> replace any that stop working or suffer trauma, etc.. Shift levers are all
>>> Dura-Ace 9 speed mounted on DT.
>>>
>>> All of them are now as sharp and precise as the day they were attached.
>>> I don't ride gravel very often, my bikes are primarily built for the
>>> road—so there is that. But for every-day riding on the road, I can't image
>>> that giant spring softening up. And shifting up the cassette, especially
>>> under load, is as smooth and quiet and 'effortless' as can be. I know
>>> that's Grant's primary reasoning, because he told me.
>>>
>>> The one caveat—if there is one—is that if you suffer just a bit of
>>> dyslexia as I do (a left/right kind of dys) my experience tells me I can't
>>> go back and forth from 'low normal' to 'normal'. Makes me crazy. If you can
>>> always remember left from right, you'll probably have no problems.
>>>
>>> With a bit of compulsive polishing, these M760s are gorgeous units and
>>> will look perfectly 'at home' on any bike no matter the builder:
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/48660635053/in/
>>> dateposted-public/
>>>
>>> Another probably unnecessary/stupid maneuver I habitually follow is that
>>> when I park a bike at ride's end, I move the chain up the cassette to relax
>>> the spring. Don't know if this really matters or not, but it makes some
>>> sense to me.
>>>
>>> BEST / Jock Dewey / San Anselmo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 1:09:31 PM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>>>
 Path Less Pedaled just did an entire video episode on Rapid Rise/Low
 Normal derailleurs that’s definitely worth watching.

 One point that came up in the comments from viewers is that shifting to
 lower gears is done entirely through the strength of the spring in the
 derailleur. Move the shifter to release more cable, and the *spring* pushes
 the chain onto a larger cog. In practice, according to people who had used
 RR/LN extensively, was that normal stuff that happens to derailleurs (they
 get dirty or muddy, or need lubrication) makes that spring’s job harder,
 with the result that it doesn’t work as well.

 Shifting to a larger cog also benefits from a slight decrease in
 pedaling pressure while shifting (again, to make the spring’s job easier).
 That’s not always possible when you’re grinding up a steep incline and need
 to grab a lower gear. This may be part of the reason why RR/LN was phased
 out … along with the fact that it was “different” in an industry that
 mostly prizes conformity.

 Full disclosure: I’ve never used a RR/LN setup, although I do ride
 almost exclusively with friction-shifting downtube levers.

 --Eric Norris
 campyo...@me.com
 Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
 YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy

 On Aug 22, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:

 Do you run a Rapid Rise derailer? Do you like it? Have you had one
 before and just didn't get it? What's the *deal?*

 With all the commotion over Rivendell's plan to build their own
 production low-normal derailer I figured I'd try one out for myself. The
 first one I picked up was an XTR RD-M951 which I suspected had a bent
 pulley cage, some of you may remember I posted about this mech a few weeks
 ago.

 I found this Nexave on eBay for $17 so figured I'd give it a shot. This
 model, to my mind, is *the* classic rapid rise derailer. Silver,
 shiny, long cage, external guide pulley, pivoting cable guide for a short
 bit of housing over the rear dropout. Grant mentioned that this was his
 favorite model, cosmetically. I like it, too.

 So far I haven't put many miles on it but no complaints. I like getting
 into the easier gears with a light touch. I'm running the derailer on my
 Appaloosa with a Silver 38/24 crank and a 9-speed 11-36 cassette. It's
 wired up to the original Suntour Power Thumb shifters which are mounted in
 the reversed, und

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Joe Bernard]

My extremely "grouchy old man" feedback is the one RapidRise I acquired was 
a pain in the patooty to install and I didn't find any benefit to the 
reverse shifting. In this reporter's opinion! 🙋‍♂️

Joe "I don't mind if others like them" Bernard 

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 1:15:10 PM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:

> Last M760 RR data point — looking back at my old bike pix, at least one of 
> my reverse-normal M760s has been hard-at-work for 9 years. Was mounted in 
> 2013 for sure, maybe just a bit earlier. 
>
> Jock Dewey
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:
>
>> Eric, et. al.:
>>
>> I stumbled upon Shimano RR M760 quite a few years ago and snatched a 
>> bunch of 'em up. Enough to mount on four 'daily' riders and a few more to 
>> replace any that stop working or suffer trauma, etc.. Shift levers are all 
>> Dura-Ace 9 speed mounted on DT.
>>
>> All of them are now as sharp and precise as the day they were attached. I 
>> don't ride gravel very often, my bikes are primarily built for the road—so 
>> there is that. But for every-day riding on the road, I can't image that 
>> giant spring softening up. And shifting up the cassette, especially under 
>> load, is as smooth and quiet and 'effortless' as can be. I know that's 
>> Grant's primary reasoning, because he told me.
>>
>> The one caveat—if there is one—is that if you suffer just a bit of 
>> dyslexia as I do (a left/right kind of dys) my experience tells me I can't 
>> go back and forth from 'low normal' to 'normal'. Makes me crazy. If you can 
>> always remember left from right, you'll probably have no problems. 
>>
>> With a bit of compulsive polishing, these M760s are gorgeous units and 
>> will look perfectly 'at home' on any bike no matter the builder: 
>>
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/48660635053/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>> Another probably unnecessary/stupid maneuver I habitually follow is that 
>> when I park a bike at ride's end, I move the chain up the cassette to relax 
>> the spring. Don't know if this really matters or not, but it makes some 
>> sense to me.
>>
>> BEST / Jock Dewey / San Anselmo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 1:09:31 PM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>>
>>> Path Less Pedaled just did an entire video episode on Rapid Rise/Low 
>>> Normal derailleurs that’s definitely worth watching.
>>>
>>> One point that came up in the comments from viewers is that shifting to 
>>> lower gears is done entirely through the strength of the spring in the 
>>> derailleur. Move the shifter to release more cable, and the *spring* pushes 
>>> the chain onto a larger cog. In practice, according to people who had used 
>>> RR/LN extensively, was that normal stuff that happens to derailleurs (they 
>>> get dirty or muddy, or need lubrication) makes that spring’s job harder, 
>>> with the result that it doesn’t work as well. 
>>>
>>> Shifting to a larger cog also benefits from a slight decrease in 
>>> pedaling pressure while shifting (again, to make the spring’s job easier). 
>>> That’s not always possible when you’re grinding up a steep incline and need 
>>> to grab a lower gear. This may be part of the reason why RR/LN was phased 
>>> out … along with the fact that it was “different” in an industry that 
>>> mostly prizes conformity.
>>>
>>> Full disclosure: I’ve never used a RR/LN setup, although I do ride 
>>> almost exclusively with friction-shifting downtube levers.
>>>
>>> --Eric Norris
>>> campyo...@me.com
>>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>>
>>> On Aug 22, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you run a Rapid Rise derailer? Do you like it? Have you had one 
>>> before and just didn't get it? What's the *deal?*
>>>
>>> With all the commotion over Rivendell's plan to build their own 
>>> production low-normal derailer I figured I'd try one out for myself. The 
>>> first one I picked up was an XTR RD-M951 which I suspected had a bent 
>>> pulley cage, some of you may remember I posted about this mech a few weeks 
>>> ago. 
>>>
>>> I found this Nexave on eBay for $17 so figured I'd give it a shot. This 
>>> model, to my mind, is *the* classic rapid rise derailer. Silver, shiny, 
>>> long cage, external guide pulley, pivoting cable guide for a short bit of 
>>> housing over the rear dropout. Grant mentioned that this was his favorite 
>>> model, cosmetically. I like it, too. 
>>>
>>> So far I haven't put many miles on it but no complaints. I like getting 
>>> into the easier gears with a light touch. I'm running the derailer on my 
>>> Appaloosa with a Silver 38/24 crank and a 9-speed 11-36 cassette. It's 
>>> wired up to the original Suntour Power Thumb shifters which are mounted in 
>>> the reversed, under-hand style also known as the Riv-versed or Rivendell 
>>> brifter style. 
>>>
>>> With the reverse-mounted shifters I did like pushing the lever away from 
>>> me to get an easier gear with a high-normal derailer installed

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Eric Marth]

Thanks JC, Bill, Patrick and Scott for more takes on Rising Rapidly. 

JC, do let me know if you can repair or finesse that 951 into shape! 

Scott, gotta admire your pile of 951s. Do you have an idea of cassette 
capacity differences between the medium and long cage versions? 

Bill, I am also a fan of my Cyclone GT!

I've ridden with my Nexave T4000 a bit more and have to say it shifts very 
smoothly and quietly, sometimes silently. Still early stages. Oh, for 
anyone interested, it's rated for 34T and I'm easily and eagerly shifting 
36T. 

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:37 AM UTC-4 Bill Schairer wrote:

> From time to time I have used reverse pull front derailleurs on a tandem 
> because the springs of normal pull front derailleurs were of insufficient 
> strength to reliably drop the chain onto the granny, a most undesirable and 
> annoying thing.  Based upon that experience, I do not want to rely upon a 
> spring to get me to a lower gear.  I've had well worn normal rear 
> derailleurs have trouble getting to the smallest cog at times, or be a bit 
> slow on the upshift - mildly annoying.  But, when I want a lower gear, I 
> want it NOW.  I like my VGT's and Cyclones.  On the other hand, at my age, 
> perhaps switching would confuse my brain enough to help ward off dementia.
>
> The new Rene Herse derailleurs don't rely upon a spring either way, do 
> they?  But then, they can't be used with cogs with as many teeth as I want.
>
> Bill S
> San Diego
>
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:50:12 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> The rear derailleur on my first-gen Sam Hill, Riv's shop-floor model, was 
>> equipped with an LX rapid rise rd. I used it for the first few miles with 
>> the Silver bes (friction) and found that the action was very light and the 
>> shifting very precise; certainly one of the most precise-shifting and easy 
>> to shift rds I've used.
>>
>> But I didn't take to the reverse action and after a short while switched 
>> to an equally light and precise shifting but normal direction road rd made 
>> or sold by Nashbar; I forget the made-up brand name, but it's cheap and 
>> easy to find and comes or came in road and mtb versions. 
>>
>> The LX worked very well, but I simply found the reverse lever action 
>> annoying.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 1:46 PM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>
>>> Do you run a Rapid Rise derailer? Do you like it? Have you had one 
>>> before and just didn't get it? What's the *deal?*
>>>
>>> With all the commotion over Rivendell's plan to build their own 
>>> production low-normal derailer I figured I'd try one out for myself. The 
>>> first one I picked up was an XTR RD-M951 which I suspected had a bent 
>>> pulley cage, some of you may remember I posted about this mech a few weeks 
>>> ago. 
>>>
>>> I found this Nexave on eBay for $17 so figured I'd give it a shot. This 
>>> model, to my mind, is *the* classic rapid rise derailer. Silver, shiny, 
>>> long cage, external guide pulley, pivoting cable guide for a short bit of 
>>> housing over the rear dropout. Grant mentioned that this was his favorite 
>>> model, cosmetically. I like it, too. 
>>>
>>> So far I haven't put many miles on it but no complaints. I like getting 
>>> into the easier gears with a light touch. I'm running the derailer on my 
>>> Appaloosa with a Silver 38/24 crank and a 9-speed 11-36 cassette. It's 
>>> wired up to the original Suntour Power Thumb shifters which are mounted in 
>>> the reversed, under-hand style also known as the Riv-versed or Rivendell 
>>> brifter style. 
>>>
>>> With the reverse-mounted shifters I did like pushing the lever away from 
>>> me to get an easier gear with a high-normal derailer installed. That made 
>>> sense. Pulling the lever to me for an easier gear is taking a bit of 
>>> getting used to but the action required is so light that it's not a problem 
>>> so far. 
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, I haven't yet been in a situation where I'm climbing and 
>>> experience a mis-shift under torque resulting in the derailer bumping me to 
>>> an easier gear. I'm looking forward to it, really. 
>>>
>>> One thing I can't get my head wrapped around is why Grant and Rivendell 
>>> want to make this happen and go through so much trouble and expense. It is 
>>> quite a complicated undertaking. It seems if you're into low-normal 
>>> derailers they're out there if you look hard enough and have some patience. 
>>> Perhaps it's just what they do and what they're about. They want something 
>>> to exist that has gone out of production, they make it so, and that is the 
>>> purest expression of their ethos and what they love about bikes and 
>>> components. "Isn't this great? People should be able to find and use 
>>> these!" 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_1983.JPG]
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-b

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Bill Schairer]

>From time to time I have used reverse pull front derailleurs on a tandem 
because the springs of normal pull front derailleurs were of insufficient 
strength to reliably drop the chain onto the granny, a most undesirable and 
annoying thing.  Based upon that experience, I do not want to rely upon a 
spring to get me to a lower gear.  I've had well worn normal rear 
derailleurs have trouble getting to the smallest cog at times, or be a bit 
slow on the upshift - mildly annoying.  But, when I want a lower gear, I 
want it NOW.  I like my VGT's and Cyclones.  On the other hand, at my age, 
perhaps switching would confuse my brain enough to help ward off dementia.

The new Rene Herse derailleurs don't rely upon a spring either way, do 
they?  But then, they can't be used with cogs with as many teeth as I want.

Bill S
San Diego

On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:50:12 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The rear derailleur on my first-gen Sam Hill, Riv's shop-floor model, was 
> equipped with an LX rapid rise rd. I used it for the first few miles with 
> the Silver bes (friction) and found that the action was very light and the 
> shifting very precise; certainly one of the most precise-shifting and easy 
> to shift rds I've used.
>
> But I didn't take to the reverse action and after a short while switched 
> to an equally light and precise shifting but normal direction road rd made 
> or sold by Nashbar; I forget the made-up brand name, but it's cheap and 
> easy to find and comes or came in road and mtb versions. 
>
> The LX worked very well, but I simply found the reverse lever action 
> annoying.
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 1:46 PM Eric Marth  wrote:
>
>> Do you run a Rapid Rise derailer? Do you like it? Have you had one before 
>> and just didn't get it? What's the *deal?*
>>
>> With all the commotion over Rivendell's plan to build their own 
>> production low-normal derailer I figured I'd try one out for myself. The 
>> first one I picked up was an XTR RD-M951 which I suspected had a bent 
>> pulley cage, some of you may remember I posted about this mech a few weeks 
>> ago. 
>>
>> I found this Nexave on eBay for $17 so figured I'd give it a shot. This 
>> model, to my mind, is *the* classic rapid rise derailer. Silver, shiny, 
>> long cage, external guide pulley, pivoting cable guide for a short bit of 
>> housing over the rear dropout. Grant mentioned that this was his favorite 
>> model, cosmetically. I like it, too. 
>>
>> So far I haven't put many miles on it but no complaints. I like getting 
>> into the easier gears with a light touch. I'm running the derailer on my 
>> Appaloosa with a Silver 38/24 crank and a 9-speed 11-36 cassette. It's 
>> wired up to the original Suntour Power Thumb shifters which are mounted in 
>> the reversed, under-hand style also known as the Riv-versed or Rivendell 
>> brifter style. 
>>
>> With the reverse-mounted shifters I did like pushing the lever away from 
>> me to get an easier gear with a high-normal derailer installed. That made 
>> sense. Pulling the lever to me for an easier gear is taking a bit of 
>> getting used to but the action required is so light that it's not a problem 
>> so far. 
>>
>> Unfortunately, I haven't yet been in a situation where I'm climbing and 
>> experience a mis-shift under torque resulting in the derailer bumping me to 
>> an easier gear. I'm looking forward to it, really. 
>>
>> One thing I can't get my head wrapped around is why Grant and Rivendell 
>> want to make this happen and go through so much trouble and expense. It is 
>> quite a complicated undertaking. It seems if you're into low-normal 
>> derailers they're out there if you look hard enough and have some patience. 
>> Perhaps it's just what they do and what they're about. They want something 
>> to exist that has gone out of production, they make it so, and that is the 
>> purest expression of their ethos and what they love about bikes and 
>> components. "Isn't this great? People should be able to find and use 
>> these!" 
>>
>> [image: IMG_1983.JPG]
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/892c029a-4efd-4b00-9dc7-840361116a39n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bu

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[J.C. Bryant]

I actually ended up with Eric's XTR Rapid Rise mentioned in this post. I 
like fixing and tinkering so I figured I'd give it a shot. I've 
successfully fixed (i.e. manhandled) a few derailleurs that suffered from 
bent cages and I figured that might be the case with this one. There is 
definitely an alignment issue, but it's a bit more tricky this time around. 
There is a bit of play where the outer parallelogram attaches to the 
p-knuckle, specifically originating from one of the two pins making that 
connection. When cable tension is pulling against the spring, it appears to 
eliminate most (if not all) of the play, but with no cable tension 
whatsoever, the "play" comes into play, as the spring pushes the knuckle 
inward at a slight angle (against the pin in question), causing the cage to 
camber in a bit too close to the spokes for comfort. I imagine this is the 
result of normal wear-and-tear over 20+ years of its life. I have not had 
the time to sit down with it, but I imagine the only possible solution is 
to take to the offending pin with a hammer and nail punch to try and 
achieve a tighter connection (assuming the hole hasn't been too wallered 
out already). I will report back once I give it a go in case anyone is 
curious.

I like Rapid Rise. I picked up a NOS Deore 591 on eBay a while back. The 
seller had a few hundred of them available and I wish I'd snagged a couple 
more at that $35 price point. I think it shipped from Taiwan IIRC, but they 
are long gone now. Having recently purchased one of these new, I noticed 
Shimano packs them with the derailleur locked in a smaller-cog position 
using a little blue handle of sorts (this makes it look like a top-normal 
derailleur at first glance until the little blue piece is removed). I 
wonder if this was done purely to get it to fit in a smaller box or if 
there is any benefit to storing them in this way.

Regardless of the price, I will probably pick up at least one of Riv's RR 
derailleurs, purely out of respect for the gumption and determination 
required to undertake such a feat. Either way, it will surely be a cool 
thing to have and the mock-ups so far look really neat.

-J.C.
On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 9:35:15 AM UTC-5 Ginz wrote:

> I have always done rapid rise and I find that it provides the most benefit 
> with indexed shifting.  Beware of switching to rapid rise later in life.  
> You may be permanently confused  about which way to shift, whether you use 
> STI, rapid fire, grip shift, or thumbies.  With bar ends or any friction 
> setup, I find I can adapt easily between rapid and non-rapid rise for some 
> reason.  
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>
>> Ha! Yeah I'm a little excessive with my cable run, its been a minute 
>> since I set this up. Haven't gotten caught on anything yet! 
>>
>> as far as the cassette goes, its a 9 spd shimano xt, 11-34/36 (can't 
>> remember exactly how big it is and I'm away from the bike, but in the 30's 
>> somewhere... I wanna say its the 36). I'm probably maxing out what the 
>> derailer is capable of in terms of size, I remember being a little 
>> concerned if it would work when I first put it on but its been smooth and 
>> no problems. 
>>
>> Also on the front end I'm using the riv silver jis square taper wide/low 
>> (38/24) double crankset, which I've been very pleased with as well both 
>> aesthetically and functionally. 
>>
>> -Stephen
>> On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 7:47:00 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Stephen, that's the same XTR I had and parted with. What size is your 
>>> cassette? 
>>>
>>> I agree, my first ride with the rapid rise was not a religious 
>>> experience. 
>>>
>>> I think you can run a shorter piece of housing back there. I believe the 
>>> pivoting cable stop that feeds the cable pulley is designed to minimize the 
>>> run of cable and housing over the dropout. Eben Weiss/Bike Snob has the 
>>> same derailer as yours and posted something about running a longer, then 
>>> shorter piece of housing but now I can't find it. I did find a picture, 
>>> though. 
>>>
>>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-08-23 at 7.35.14 AM.png]
>>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:49:29 PM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>>>
 [image: Screen Shot 2022-08-22 at 9.41.11 PM.png]
 I got this xtr at a swap meet last year and have been a big fan. Before 
 I was running a deore like the one in russ' video. This is on my 2020 
 appaloosa with riversed silver thumbie shifters currently set up on 
 bullmooses but I also swap out to loscos sometimes. I'm a big fan of it, 
 though I'd agree with path less pedaled in saying its not mind blowing. I 
 think it shifts great, I love the style of this era xtr. Haven't noticed 
 any issues yet in terms of the spring not giving a snappy enough shift, 
 but 
 I definitely have had the beneficial ghost shift going uphill in the 
 mountains since installing.

 Stephen
 On Monday,

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Mackenzy Albright]

I've been running an XTR rapid rise for 7+ years. I've found shifting to be 
much more intuitive. I generally pair with old parts (suntour barcons or 
silver shifters) and find less wander and accidental upshifts. The action 
feels substantially lighter and more accurate. In instances of missed 
shifts, broken cables, or any general mechanical issue it's easy to slop it 
to the highest possible gear to get to no interrupt a climb or rough 
terrain until things smooth out.  

I have an alivio on my new clem build and found it to feel stiff and 
touchy. It works fine. I do find it much much more difficult to emergency 
slap shift into the bail out in rough/steep terrain. I often just end up 
having to get off at that point which kills the momentum and mood - it 
takes more planning on the trail - but you get used to whatever you use. I 
think the rapid rise is a great concept for "hillibike" sort of riding for 
these reasons. for road riding I don't particularly care.  



On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 7:35:15 AM UTC-7 Ginz wrote:

> I have always done rapid rise and I find that it provides the most benefit 
> with indexed shifting.  Beware of switching to rapid rise later in life.  
> You may be permanently confused  about which way to shift, whether you use 
> STI, rapid fire, grip shift, or thumbies.  With bar ends or any friction 
> setup, I find I can adapt easily between rapid and non-rapid rise for some 
> reason.  
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>
>> Ha! Yeah I'm a little excessive with my cable run, its been a minute 
>> since I set this up. Haven't gotten caught on anything yet! 
>>
>> as far as the cassette goes, its a 9 spd shimano xt, 11-34/36 (can't 
>> remember exactly how big it is and I'm away from the bike, but in the 30's 
>> somewhere... I wanna say its the 36). I'm probably maxing out what the 
>> derailer is capable of in terms of size, I remember being a little 
>> concerned if it would work when I first put it on but its been smooth and 
>> no problems. 
>>
>> Also on the front end I'm using the riv silver jis square taper wide/low 
>> (38/24) double crankset, which I've been very pleased with as well both 
>> aesthetically and functionally. 
>>
>> -Stephen
>> On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 7:47:00 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Stephen, that's the same XTR I had and parted with. What size is your 
>>> cassette? 
>>>
>>> I agree, my first ride with the rapid rise was not a religious 
>>> experience. 
>>>
>>> I think you can run a shorter piece of housing back there. I believe the 
>>> pivoting cable stop that feeds the cable pulley is designed to minimize the 
>>> run of cable and housing over the dropout. Eben Weiss/Bike Snob has the 
>>> same derailer as yours and posted something about running a longer, then 
>>> shorter piece of housing but now I can't find it. I did find a picture, 
>>> though. 
>>>
>>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-08-23 at 7.35.14 AM.png]
>>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:49:29 PM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>>>
 [image: Screen Shot 2022-08-22 at 9.41.11 PM.png]
 I got this xtr at a swap meet last year and have been a big fan. Before 
 I was running a deore like the one in russ' video. This is on my 2020 
 appaloosa with riversed silver thumbie shifters currently set up on 
 bullmooses but I also swap out to loscos sometimes. I'm a big fan of it, 
 though I'd agree with path less pedaled in saying its not mind blowing. I 
 think it shifts great, I love the style of this era xtr. Haven't noticed 
 any issues yet in terms of the spring not giving a snappy enough shift, 
 but 
 I definitely have had the beneficial ghost shift going uphill in the 
 mountains since installing.

 Stephen
 On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:20:47 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> JJ thanks for sharing your experiences across several RR mechs, that's 
> a lot of sampling. Sounds like you've found cage movement that works for 
> you! Dig the pic as well, thank you. I agree the red decal is a bit much. 
> Perhaps I'll scrape it off. 
>
> Johnny, thanks for the link, that is an in-depth look at derailers I'd 
> kind of forgotten about. It's a long one so here are some tidbits about 
> cost and arrival, which I'm sure will change:
>
> *6. How much will it cost?*
>
> a. We don't know. Ideally we'll have a fancy first model, the SILVER 
> OM-1; and then cheaper other models, maybe OM-2, OM-3. Maybe $300 for a 
> fancy, and $30 for a plain? We have zero idea, but a derailer too 
> expensive 
> to buy is no fun and misses the point; and a super cheap derailer that 
> doesn't account for the cost of developing and making it is ... not gonna 
> happen. We'll just see.
>
> *11. When?*
>
> a. We're hoping the fancy by Spring 2023, and the plain by Fall 2023.
>
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:00:40 PM 

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Ginz]

I have always done rapid rise and I find that it provides the most benefit 
with indexed shifting.  Beware of switching to rapid rise later in life.  
You may be permanently confused  about which way to shift, whether you use 
STI, rapid fire, grip shift, or thumbies.  With bar ends or any friction 
setup, I find I can adapt easily between rapid and non-rapid rise for some 
reason.  



On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:

> Ha! Yeah I'm a little excessive with my cable run, its been a minute since 
> I set this up. Haven't gotten caught on anything yet! 
>
> as far as the cassette goes, its a 9 spd shimano xt, 11-34/36 (can't 
> remember exactly how big it is and I'm away from the bike, but in the 30's 
> somewhere... I wanna say its the 36). I'm probably maxing out what the 
> derailer is capable of in terms of size, I remember being a little 
> concerned if it would work when I first put it on but its been smooth and 
> no problems. 
>
> Also on the front end I'm using the riv silver jis square taper wide/low 
> (38/24) double crankset, which I've been very pleased with as well both 
> aesthetically and functionally. 
>
> -Stephen
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 7:47:00 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Stephen, that's the same XTR I had and parted with. What size is your 
>> cassette? 
>>
>> I agree, my first ride with the rapid rise was not a religious 
>> experience. 
>>
>> I think you can run a shorter piece of housing back there. I believe the 
>> pivoting cable stop that feeds the cable pulley is designed to minimize the 
>> run of cable and housing over the dropout. Eben Weiss/Bike Snob has the 
>> same derailer as yours and posted something about running a longer, then 
>> shorter piece of housing but now I can't find it. I did find a picture, 
>> though. 
>>
>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-08-23 at 7.35.14 AM.png]
>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:49:29 PM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-08-22 at 9.41.11 PM.png]
>>> I got this xtr at a swap meet last year and have been a big fan. Before 
>>> I was running a deore like the one in russ' video. This is on my 2020 
>>> appaloosa with riversed silver thumbie shifters currently set up on 
>>> bullmooses but I also swap out to loscos sometimes. I'm a big fan of it, 
>>> though I'd agree with path less pedaled in saying its not mind blowing. I 
>>> think it shifts great, I love the style of this era xtr. Haven't noticed 
>>> any issues yet in terms of the spring not giving a snappy enough shift, but 
>>> I definitely have had the beneficial ghost shift going uphill in the 
>>> mountains since installing.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:20:47 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 JJ thanks for sharing your experiences across several RR mechs, that's 
 a lot of sampling. Sounds like you've found cage movement that works for 
 you! Dig the pic as well, thank you. I agree the red decal is a bit much. 
 Perhaps I'll scrape it off. 

 Johnny, thanks for the link, that is an in-depth look at derailers I'd 
 kind of forgotten about. It's a long one so here are some tidbits about 
 cost and arrival, which I'm sure will change:

 *6. How much will it cost?*

 a. We don't know. Ideally we'll have a fancy first model, the SILVER 
 OM-1; and then cheaper other models, maybe OM-2, OM-3. Maybe $300 for a 
 fancy, and $30 for a plain? We have zero idea, but a derailer too 
 expensive 
 to buy is no fun and misses the point; and a super cheap derailer that 
 doesn't account for the cost of developing and making it is ... not gonna 
 happen. We'll just see.

 *11. When?*

 a. We're hoping the fancy by Spring 2023, and the plain by Fall 2023.

 On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:00:40 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Riv is indeed making different tiers. I believe Grant said he wanted 
> the top level to be around $300 but a plain jane low level version for 
> something like $30.
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/late-may-silver-is-a-bugger-and-the-last-good-looking-rear-derailer
>
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 7:40:55 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>
>> I've been exclusively running low normal for a few years. Here's a 
>> pic of the XT M770 on my Hunqapillar. When I first started using Rapid 
>> Rise 
>> I had a few muscle memory misfires (getting the opposite of what I 
>> wanted 
>> when I moved the shift lever). It lasted a couple of weeks, but then it 
>> was 
>> like a flipping a switch in my brain and motor coordination. The logic 
>> just 
>> made so much sense, especially the consistency in left and right 
>> shifting, 
>> easier in one direction, harder in the other, on both sides. I run them 
>> with friction shifters only. It's like second nature.
>>
>> I've tried XTR 970, 960, 950 se

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Stephen]

Ha! Yeah I'm a little excessive with my cable run, its been a minute since 
I set this up. Haven't gotten caught on anything yet! 

as far as the cassette goes, its a 9 spd shimano xt, 11-34/36 (can't 
remember exactly how big it is and I'm away from the bike, but in the 30's 
somewhere... I wanna say its the 36). I'm probably maxing out what the 
derailer is capable of in terms of size, I remember being a little 
concerned if it would work when I first put it on but its been smooth and 
no problems. 

Also on the front end I'm using the riv silver jis square taper wide/low 
(38/24) double crankset, which I've been very pleased with as well both 
aesthetically and functionally. 

-Stephen
On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 7:47:00 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Stephen, that's the same XTR I had and parted with. What size is your 
> cassette? 
>
> I agree, my first ride with the rapid rise was not a religious experience. 
>
> I think you can run a shorter piece of housing back there. I believe the 
> pivoting cable stop that feeds the cable pulley is designed to minimize the 
> run of cable and housing over the dropout. Eben Weiss/Bike Snob has the 
> same derailer as yours and posted something about running a longer, then 
> shorter piece of housing but now I can't find it. I did find a picture, 
> though. 
>
> [image: Screen Shot 2022-08-23 at 7.35.14 AM.png]
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:49:29 PM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>
>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-08-22 at 9.41.11 PM.png]
>> I got this xtr at a swap meet last year and have been a big fan. Before I 
>> was running a deore like the one in russ' video. This is on my 2020 
>> appaloosa with riversed silver thumbie shifters currently set up on 
>> bullmooses but I also swap out to loscos sometimes. I'm a big fan of it, 
>> though I'd agree with path less pedaled in saying its not mind blowing. I 
>> think it shifts great, I love the style of this era xtr. Haven't noticed 
>> any issues yet in terms of the spring not giving a snappy enough shift, but 
>> I definitely have had the beneficial ghost shift going uphill in the 
>> mountains since installing.
>>
>> Stephen
>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:20:47 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> JJ thanks for sharing your experiences across several RR mechs, that's a 
>>> lot of sampling. Sounds like you've found cage movement that works for you! 
>>> Dig the pic as well, thank you. I agree the red decal is a bit much. 
>>> Perhaps I'll scrape it off. 
>>>
>>> Johnny, thanks for the link, that is an in-depth look at derailers I'd 
>>> kind of forgotten about. It's a long one so here are some tidbits about 
>>> cost and arrival, which I'm sure will change:
>>>
>>> *6. How much will it cost?*
>>>
>>> a. We don't know. Ideally we'll have a fancy first model, the SILVER 
>>> OM-1; and then cheaper other models, maybe OM-2, OM-3. Maybe $300 for a 
>>> fancy, and $30 for a plain? We have zero idea, but a derailer too expensive 
>>> to buy is no fun and misses the point; and a super cheap derailer that 
>>> doesn't account for the cost of developing and making it is ... not gonna 
>>> happen. We'll just see.
>>>
>>> *11. When?*
>>>
>>> a. We're hoping the fancy by Spring 2023, and the plain by Fall 2023.
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:00:40 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 Riv is indeed making different tiers. I believe Grant said he wanted 
 the top level to be around $300 but a plain jane low level version for 
 something like $30.


 https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/late-may-silver-is-a-bugger-and-the-last-good-looking-rear-derailer

 On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 7:40:55 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> I've been exclusively running low normal for a few years. Here's a pic 
> of the XT M770 on my Hunqapillar. When I first started using Rapid Rise I 
> had a few muscle memory misfires (getting the opposite of what I wanted 
> when I moved the shift lever). It lasted a couple of weeks, but then it 
> was 
> like a flipping a switch in my brain and motor coordination. The logic 
> just 
> made so much sense, especially the consistency in left and right 
> shifting, 
> easier in one direction, harder in the other, on both sides. I run them 
> with friction shifters only. It's like second nature.
>
> I've tried XTR 970, 960, 950 series, LX and Deore models, and XT 760 
> and 770. I sold a few of my still-too-large hoard of Rapid Rise on this 
> forum. Never tried the Nexave. All of them felt good, the only 
> differences 
> being the typical Shimano hierarchical group gradations in materials, 
> design, refinement, weight, etc. I don't see myself going back to high 
> normal shifting. I've gotten rid of (almost) all of my high normal mechs.
>
> I have never experienced the issues that Eric (Norris) mentioned about 
> low normal RDs not functioning well if they get mucked

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Eric Marth]

JJ thanks for sharing your experiences across several RR mechs, that's a 
lot of sampling. Sounds like you've found cage movement that works for you! 
Dig the pic as well, thank you. I agree the red decal is a bit much. 
Perhaps I'll scrape it off. 

Johnny, thanks for the link, that is an in-depth look at derailers I'd kind 
of forgotten about. It's a long one so here are some tidbits about cost and 
arrival, which I'm sure will change:

*6. How much will it cost?*

a. We don't know. Ideally we'll have a fancy first model, the SILVER OM-1; 
and then cheaper other models, maybe OM-2, OM-3. Maybe $300 for a fancy, 
and $30 for a plain? We have zero idea, but a derailer too expensive to buy 
is no fun and misses the point; and a super cheap derailer that doesn't 
account for the cost of developing and making it is ... not gonna happen. 
We'll just see.

*11. When?*

a. We're hoping the fancy by Spring 2023, and the plain by Fall 2023.

On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:00:40 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Riv is indeed making different tiers. I believe Grant said he wanted the 
> top level to be around $300 but a plain jane low level version for 
> something like $30.
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/late-may-silver-is-a-bugger-and-the-last-good-looking-rear-derailer
>
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 7:40:55 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>
>> I've been exclusively running low normal for a few years. Here's a pic of 
>> the XT M770 on my Hunqapillar. When I first started using Rapid Rise I had 
>> a few muscle memory misfires (getting the opposite of what I wanted when I 
>> moved the shift lever). It lasted a couple of weeks, but then it was like a 
>> flipping a switch in my brain and motor coordination. The logic just made 
>> so much sense, especially the consistency in left and right shifting, 
>> easier in one direction, harder in the other, on both sides. I run them 
>> with friction shifters only. It's like second nature.
>>
>> I've tried XTR 970, 960, 950 series, LX and Deore models, and XT 760 and 
>> 770. I sold a few of my still-too-large hoard of Rapid Rise on this forum. 
>> Never tried the Nexave. All of them felt good, the only differences being 
>> the typical Shimano hierarchical group gradations in materials, design, 
>> refinement, weight, etc. I don't see myself going back to high normal 
>> shifting. I've gotten rid of (almost) all of my high normal mechs.
>>
>> I have never experienced the issues that Eric (Norris) mentioned about 
>> low normal RDs not functioning well if they get mucked up. I maintain them 
>> no differently than how I ever treated high normal RDs. I've recently been 
>> riding in particularly wet and mucky conditions. It's as much of an issue 
>> as it is for high normal, which is to say, it has been a nonissue in my 
>> experience. There are probably numerous reasons Rapid Rise didn't succeed 
>> in the market. But common declarations about their supposed poor 
>> functionality for xyz reasons do not align with my experiences at all (and 
>> I can only talk to my own experiences). They're not harder (or easier) to 
>> set up than high normal. They index no worse (or better) than high normal. 
>> They're no less (or more) robust than high normal.  
>>
>> Some purists thumb their noses at the overwrought design of the 770 and 
>> 970, the black Deore, and others. Not silver enough, not polished enough, 
>> too much paint, too flashy, etc. I think they look cool. And I will take 
>> the functionality of these with their ostensibly dowdier looks *anytime* 
>> over not using Rapid Rise because they're insufficiently attractive. I 
>> don't typically ogle my RDs while I'm riding :) The silvery Nexave looks 
>> great, though the red Megarange is a bit jarring to my eyes. I'm sure it 
>> functions as wonderfully as all the other Rapid Rise models and I'd jump on 
>> it if I found one for $17! 
>>
>> I'm stoked about Rivendell's upcoming version. Thank goodness Grant and 
>> crew have enough gumption, principle, will, and sheer obstinacy to carry 
>> through on the project. It's only speculation, but I suspect Riv's derailer 
>> will be pretty pricey. NOS XT and XTR Rapid rise are increasingly rare, and 
>> $200 to $500 prices are not unusual on eBay, craigslist, and in independent 
>> bike shops that happen to have stock here and there. Used ones in great 
>> condition also fetch a lot of $$. I would not be surprised if Riv's is 
>> within that range. Maybe Riv will produce different tiers? Fingers crossed 
>> that they will see the light of day asap. Whatever price it ends up being, 
>> I'll try to be the first in line for one.
>>
>>
>> [image: xt rapid rise.jpeg]
>>
>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 4:09:31 PM UTC-4 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>>
>>> Path Less Pedaled just did an entire video episode on Rapid Rise/Low 
>>> Normal derailleurs that’s definitely worth watching.
>>>
>>> One point that came up in the comments from viewers is that shifting to 
>>> lower

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Johnny Alien]

Riv is indeed making different tiers. I believe Grant said he wanted the 
top level to be around $300 but a plain jane low level version for 
something like $30.

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/late-may-silver-is-a-bugger-and-the-last-good-looking-rear-derailer

On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 7:40:55 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> I've been exclusively running low normal for a few years. Here's a pic of 
> the XT M770 on my Hunqapillar. When I first started using Rapid Rise I had 
> a few muscle memory misfires (getting the opposite of what I wanted when I 
> moved the shift lever). It lasted a couple of weeks, but then it was like a 
> flipping a switch in my brain and motor coordination. The logic just made 
> so much sense, especially the consistency in left and right shifting, 
> easier in one direction, harder in the other, on both sides. I run them 
> with friction shifters only. It's like second nature.
>
> I've tried XTR 970, 960, 950 series, LX and Deore models, and XT 760 and 
> 770. I sold a few of my still-too-large hoard of Rapid Rise on this forum. 
> Never tried the Nexave. All of them felt good, the only differences being 
> the typical Shimano hierarchical group gradations in materials, design, 
> refinement, weight, etc. I don't see myself going back to high normal 
> shifting. I've gotten rid of (almost) all of my high normal mechs.
>
> I have never experienced the issues that Eric (Norris) mentioned about low 
> normal RDs not functioning well if they get mucked up. I maintain them no 
> differently than how I ever treated high normal RDs. I've recently been 
> riding in particularly wet and mucky conditions. It's as much of an issue 
> as it is for high normal, which is to say, it has been a nonissue in my 
> experience. There are probably numerous reasons Rapid Rise didn't succeed 
> in the market. But common declarations about their supposed poor 
> functionality for xyz reasons do not align with my experiences at all (and 
> I can only talk to my own experiences). They're not harder (or easier) to 
> set up than high normal. They index no worse (or better) than high normal. 
> They're no less (or more) robust than high normal.  
>
> Some purists thumb their noses at the overwrought design of the 770 and 
> 970, the black Deore, and others. Not silver enough, not polished enough, 
> too much paint, too flashy, etc. I think they look cool. And I will take 
> the functionality of these with their ostensibly dowdier looks *anytime* 
> over not using Rapid Rise because they're insufficiently attractive. I 
> don't typically ogle my RDs while I'm riding :) The silvery Nexave looks 
> great, though the red Megarange is a bit jarring to my eyes. I'm sure it 
> functions as wonderfully as all the other Rapid Rise models and I'd jump on 
> it if I found one for $17! 
>
> I'm stoked about Rivendell's upcoming version. Thank goodness Grant and 
> crew have enough gumption, principle, will, and sheer obstinacy to carry 
> through on the project. It's only speculation, but I suspect Riv's derailer 
> will be pretty pricey. NOS XT and XTR Rapid rise are increasingly rare, and 
> $200 to $500 prices are not unusual on eBay, craigslist, and in independent 
> bike shops that happen to have stock here and there. Used ones in great 
> condition also fetch a lot of $$. I would not be surprised if Riv's is 
> within that range. Maybe Riv will produce different tiers? Fingers crossed 
> that they will see the light of day asap. Whatever price it ends up being, 
> I'll try to be the first in line for one.
>
>
> [image: xt rapid rise.jpeg]
>
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 4:09:31 PM UTC-4 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
>> Path Less Pedaled just did an entire video episode on Rapid Rise/Low 
>> Normal derailleurs that’s definitely worth watching.
>>
>> One point that came up in the comments from viewers is that shifting to 
>> lower gears is done entirely through the strength of the spring in the 
>> derailleur. Move the shifter to release more cable, and the *spring* pushes 
>> the chain onto a larger cog. In practice, according to people who had used 
>> RR/LN extensively, was that normal stuff that happens to derailleurs (they 
>> get dirty or muddy, or need lubrication) makes that spring’s job harder, 
>> with the result that it doesn’t work as well. 
>>
>> Shifting to a larger cog also benefits from a slight decrease in pedaling 
>> pressure while shifting (again, to make the spring’s job easier). That’s 
>> not always possible when you’re grinding up a steep incline and need to 
>> grab a lower gear. This may be part of the reason why RR/LN was phased out 
>> … along with the fact that it was “different” in an industry that mostly 
>> prizes conformity.
>>
>> Full disclosure: I’ve never used a RR/LN setup, although I do ride almost 
>> exclusively with friction-shifting downtube levers.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>
>> On

Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Path Less Pedaled just did an entire video episode on Rapid Rise/Low Normal 
derailleurs that’s definitely worth watching.

One point that came up in the comments from viewers is that shifting to lower 
gears is done entirely through the strength of the spring in the derailleur. 
Move the shifter to release more cable, and the *spring* pushes the chain onto 
a larger cog. In practice, according to people who had used RR/LN extensively, 
was that normal stuff that happens to derailleurs (they get dirty or muddy, or 
need lubrication) makes that spring’s job harder, with the result that it 
doesn’t work as well. 

Shifting to a larger cog also benefits from a slight decrease in pedaling 
pressure while shifting (again, to make the spring’s job easier). That’s not 
always possible when you’re grinding up a steep incline and need to grab a 
lower gear. This may be part of the reason why RR/LN was phased out … along 
with the fact that it was “different” in an industry that mostly prizes 
conformity.

Full disclosure: I’ve never used a RR/LN setup, although I do ride almost 
exclusively with friction-shifting downtube levers.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

> On Aug 22, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
> 
> Do you run a Rapid Rise derailer? Do you like it? Have you had one before and 
> just didn't get it? What's the deal?
> 
> With all the commotion over Rivendell's plan to build their own production 
> low-normal derailer I figured I'd try one out for myself. The first one I 
> picked up was an XTR RD-M951 which I suspected had a bent pulley cage, some 
> of you may remember I posted about this mech a few weeks ago. 
> 
> I found this Nexave on eBay for $17 so figured I'd give it a shot. This 
> model, to my mind, is the classic rapid rise derailer. Silver, shiny, long 
> cage, external guide pulley, pivoting cable guide for a short bit of housing 
> over the rear dropout. Grant mentioned that this was his favorite model, 
> cosmetically. I like it, too. 
> 
> So far I haven't put many miles on it but no complaints. I like getting into 
> the easier gears with a light touch. I'm running the derailer on my Appaloosa 
> with a Silver 38/24 crank and a 9-speed 11-36 cassette. It's wired up to the 
> original Suntour Power Thumb shifters which are mounted in the reversed, 
> under-hand style also known as the Riv-versed or Rivendell brifter style. 
> 
> With the reverse-mounted shifters I did like pushing the lever away from me 
> to get an easier gear with a high-normal derailer installed. That made sense. 
> Pulling the lever to me for an easier gear is taking a bit of getting used to 
> but the action required is so light that it's not a problem so far. 
> 
> Unfortunately, I haven't yet been in a situation where I'm climbing and 
> experience a mis-shift under torque resulting in the derailer bumping me to 
> an easier gear. I'm looking forward to it, really. 
> 
> One thing I can't get my head wrapped around is why Grant and Rivendell want 
> to make this happen and go through so much trouble and expense. It is quite a 
> complicated undertaking. It seems if you're into low-normal derailers they're 
> out there if you look hard enough and have some patience. Perhaps it's just 
> what they do and what they're about. They want something to exist that has 
> gone out of production, they make it so, and that is the purest expression of 
> their ethos and what they love about bikes and components. "Isn't this great? 
> People should be able to find and use these!" 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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